Me either ..I assume they will bring out an official patch eventually now that they see it can be done lol but it's not perfect. There are visual glitches here and there but it's very rare and well worth it@@RaccoonBrigade
From my experience, the cutscene stuttering is NOT a CPU/GPU bound issue. The overlay on my rig isn't reading the drops. Square Enix needs to unclog the toilet.
VRS affects the water distortions, screen space reflection and depth of field. If you use FSR on a performance preset you WILL notice the pixelation of those effects. Or in your case of using DLSS at a very low resolution you suddenly notice the lower res effects. And turning VRS off will make these things match the INTERNAL resolution instead of lower.
look, it's incredible that these are that focuses on the technical aspect and the whole world also reports them... every time I open a video of them there are a row of bullshit one after the other...
I noticed VRS made a huge visual difference when trying to get it to run on the Steam Deck at 720p as well, the difference is clear as day if you turn the resolution way down.
I played the Entire game on PS5 on Quality Mode with: Motion Blur 3, No Auto Tracking on Movement - and both Camera Speed increased: This resulted in dramatically smoother and much better motion handling and image clarity in exploration and combat. However, PS5 (or Pro at least) should have 40 FPS Mode running in 120Hz Container set on Quality Mode graphics settings. Hopefully PS5 Pro can provide that at least - but Japanese Devs seem unaware of 40 FPS in 120H Container option
Played it on performance mode because 30fps is just too jarring for me. I don't mind the resolution differences because you could hardly tell in this game's fast paced combat.
Because the game is not optimized well for PC. Squaresoft has a history of doing this with consol ports. FF7 was the same way. A year later is played allot better on pc. I have the game but its just going to sit in my steam account for a while till they optimize it better then I'll play it.
Stranger of Paradise, anyone? Takes the cake for one of the worst optimized games in recent years, and definitely SE's worst one. Game can't even keep 120FPS with DLSS on a 4090 @ 3440x1440, and looks 10 years out of date (aside from the character models.. because they use a million triangles). It barely ran at 30FPS on a 1080 Ti. FFXV I find is actually extremely CPU bound. 5950x bottlenecks quite badly, and all of the NVIDIA settings hammer that bottleneck even more. Turn off that crap and the game runs so much better.. but does objectively look worse. Typical of NVIDIA, now moreso than ever with RTX.
@@AceStrife yeah, if the 5090 is at least 50% faster than the 4090 it's gonna run into CPU bottlenecks a LOT more even at 4K in a lot of games. I have a feeling the 9800X3D won't be a huge leap over the 7800X3D
Anyone else shocked how decent it looks at 360p lol. DLSS is black magic. I’m watching on a big TV and it still holds up well considering it’s a PS2 gen resolution!
Dlss is brilliant. I can't wait to see what rtx 5xxx cards bring to it. I still remember the first time dlss came out with Metro Exodus and people hated it. It was awful. I knew it would eventually be loved. If Sony can somehow get pssr up to it console ppl will be in for a treat but idk if they will. Figure it will always be between fsr and dlss though
Nah, it looks horrible. It's artifacting constantly and extremely blurry/pixelated. Whatever you're seeing on UA-cam is compressed and not a proper view of how the game will look on your monitor.
@@readifdumb Well I recently tried dlss ultra performance from 1440p in Ragnarök and it was fully playable and nice looking image. Really surprised me, but I got enough performance to play it with DLAA:)
Various cutscenes blend real time graphics and prerendered videos in the same scene (e.g. the war at the Republican Army frontlines, right at the beginning of the demo/full game -- the NPCs and particle effects are prerendered videos but the entire environment is rendered in real time). One of the devs explained that and showed examples at a GDC talk sometime after it launched on PS5...
I don’t know how you can equate this port to something like the Remake launch which was atrocious. There’s a huge difference between “practically unplayable” and what we see here.
@@necroguy11 Never said one can't be worse than the other. They can both still be garbage ports, with one being terrible and the other unplayable. It's never been a race for one port to be the shittiest. 🤣
You guys dropped the ball here. The areas after what was in the demo run SIGNIFICANTLY worse. My 3080TI struggles to hit 60 FPS on low settings 720p (4k DLSS Ultra Performance). That's not acceptable for what we're seeing on the screen. Cyberpunk with RT Overdrive is only slightly more demanding than this one.
I think your target resolution might be too high. I am also using a 3080ti but am at 1440p Balanced FSR and FG and it still looks very, very good. I get 100+fps in indoor areas and 70+fps in the open world.
@@nlikeflynn8837 I'm glad you're enjoying the game, but I can't stand the low res image quality and frame gen artifacts. You performance kinda checks out, 1440p Balanced FSR is internal res 835p, I believe. The game runs at about 40 FPS which gets boosted by frame-gen to 70's. Lostwing ran the worst for me so far, but Rosaria is not far behind (or ahead, I guess). My point is nothing on the screen suggests the game should run this poorly. I can play Crysis 3, which has much, much better environments (but worse characters) at native 4K 340 FPS... I understand these are different rendering techniques, but still, I expected at least 60 FPS with internal res 1440p. Hell, Hellblade Senua's Saga runs better than this and looks about 10x better. I'm going to wait for a year or two to really enjoy the game. I played it on console already, suffering through 30 FPS. I wanted to finally play it with good framerates and crisp image :/
@@Mesjach Okay I'm not saying Crysis 3 is a bad looking game. It's aged quite well in fact. But in what universe does it have better looking environments than Final Fantasy XVI?? 😭
@@Mesjach i have to agree. 16 looks good but is it really that much better than say 15 from years ago? i really dont think so and the fidelity here just doesn't justify the performance we're getting. they should really stop trying to push miniscule graphics improvements and make games run well instead
I don't know, both the 2070 and PS5 have the exact same bandwith, console gets extra low level api optimizations, but the 2070 doesn't have to fight the CPU for bandwith, well, is not like the PS5 version had perfect frame rate either.
@@fenix_tx_1342 You have to keep in mind that a game designed for a console will be able to do cpu«--»memory and gpu«--»memory read/write operations at roughly the same speed, and many games take advantage of this. A shader might start getting processed on the gpu, written to memory at at 10Gbps, and then read by the cpu at 10Gbps, and finish processing on the cpu. Doing something like this on a discrete card means that the data would have to take a round trip around the pcie bus, essentially using regular slow ram as vram, which is a big no no when it comes to gpu programming. So yeah, the memory speed might be similar on paper, but in practice there is a lot of difference. Don't really know what the issue is with this particular game, but i have a hunch that square enix isn't putting in the required effort for ports like these.
@@uzayonat people should have already figured it out that if you're going to expect the best representation from a lot of these games, they better have the best GPUs available to consumers and that's just sad. Or get a console and finish that fight early without compromise as the way it was intended to be played.
Square Enix being afraid to use FSR2 in the PS5 FF games for some reason. FFVII Rebirth with biliniear upscaling looking soft AF in the performance mode and FFXVI using FSR1 for some reason.
Because FSR2 significantly increases ghosting compared standard TAA, especially on alpha effects which Final Fantasy games are notorious for. FSR1 while flawed, is spatial and does not use temporal frames. DLSS2-3 is apparently mature enough to mitigate ghosting.
@@AlexanTheMan dude, FFXVI and FFVIIR2 look awful in performance mode, early FSR2 introduced some ghosting but it's much better than whatever we currently have.
On an rtx 3070 I should never be hitting as low fps as I am in this game on low settings, why am I getting 20 to 40 fps in every single town I get into.
This was borderline unplayable for me on PS5. Quality mode looked so choppy at times...and the ghosting especially on my player as I'm panning the cam was absolutely horrible. But performance mode was even worse...a low res blurry mess, with FPS all over the place. So I gave up, and decided to wait for PC to play this masterpiece properly. The PC demo ran beautifully on my PC actually on max settings, 1440p res DLSS quality. I5-12600K and RTX 4080. I'm getting locked 75fps with vsync on. So no complaints!
The VRS stuff I always find interesting. You assume there is a reason for it. Or that some test at some point would have shown it impacting performance. But then I remembered Kaze's video on SM64 where he found a bunch of algorithms they used to "improve" performance that were net 0 / worse because doing the optimization itself costs some amount of processing power (nothing is free). It really makes me wonder if there are some similar cases in modern rendering pipelines (especially tools like UE4/5)
VRS itself is pretty complex and requires its own algorithm. To get the most out of it you need to have many many many pixels share a color. Well, most games these days dont do that. Maybe on something like Doom, where most of the upper screen is a redish brown but its mostly not worth it, you'd be better off reducing the res slighty and bilinear it up or something before you render the UI.
VRS is necessary for UE5 titles. Wait, is FFXVI UE5? I think it's frizzing out because of something the devs did while tinkering with the settings. And if it's not UE5, their implementation of VRS is busted. The demo had a huge issue with VRS and that was somewhat fixed with its most recent patch.
no you dont. That works best for pixelart but not really 3D graphics. On RPCS3 I often had to pick nearest to get from 720p to 1440p and trust me, it looked real bad on Midnight Club. I'd take bilinear every day, not on pixelart tho
@@liaminwales because you literally had the image tile up with artefacts. The backlight of the cars literally looked like a red checkerboard. If you actually want that over a slight smoothing then I highly question your sanity
@@Kiyuja "slight smoothing" is a mischaracterization. It is a complete full screen blur. The same reason why people hate FXAA/TAA. Many people want sharp graphics, with proper anti-aliasing (multisampling). You can play with your blurry filtering if you want, but saying it's the "right" way to play is completely misguided. It's an opinion, not a fact. Also if your emulator is blurry at higher resolution, you're not increasing the render resolution properly, which is a config issue. Also integer scaling exists. And if it can't be integer scaled, then lanczos filtering exists.
About the stutters I believe the game is coded around real time data decompression similar to many PS5-lead games, but ported for CPU on PC which can bog down the CPU when the game asks a bunch of assets just-in-time. When you do an action for the first time, the game probably calls the related assets at that very moment lol. Also the thing that makes the game heavy is the lighting technique they used. It's a form of modified PCSS in very very high quality.
@@AceStrife I did not know that, but to be honest even DS1.2 is not that good. It still stages data in the system RAM first before VRAM. So there's a lot of data shuffling about.
The timing of some of those stutters makes me wonder if they're loading related. I've noticed the game will use nearly 100% of my entire 7950X3D when loading, so I can certainly see it causing some stutters on a lower end CPU if the game engine isn't limiting it properly. It doesn't look like it from the on-screen CPU usage you have on the footage, but the polling rate of that is fairly low so it could be missing some spikes. The upside is the game does load incredibly fast. With a top-end PCIE 4.0 NVME (WD SN850X) fast travelling around the world is 1-2 seconds and loading from the main menu is around 5 seconds.
Not mine either, but it's not a bad game at all. A bit uneven in pacing, and lacks true challenge for how complex the game mechanics are. You shouldn't have to unlock "hard" mode after finishing it.
The frametime spikes are so bad when i explore Rosaria. The game is beautiful but even on low settings i have this spikes that feel just so bad... I hope they patch this soon...
@@Hatemx1 Just got the game running so smooth with specific settings. Using FSR3 with Frame Gen on and 60 fps. Dynamic Res off and VRS off. That made my game run smooth and on High Settings. 3060 ti and Ryzen 5 5600x is my rig
Doing a PC port while not uncapping the cutscenes keeping them at 30fps AND no ultrawide support is kind of a low in 2024... Overall, the game is a banger ofc! Hope YoshiP watch the video and ask his team to do better. :)
I do wonder if there is some JIT asset loading shenagins, it is a homebrew engine and I suspect they may have relied a bit too much on the PS5 direct storage.
The PC version does have DirectStorage files in the game directory, so it should be using it on PC too. Maybe the storage subsystem on PC, and wildly varying SSDs, just isn't enough to match the PS5.
however i have a lot of problems with this game with 3080 and 5800x like 30fps in the specific dungeon of the fallen ones. i mean 30 fps with DLSS and dynamic resolution. And the game as something wrong. my gpu is always at 100% use but i have low Wattage usage, and lower clock sometimes. it's the only game i have with this behavioure. And the cpu usage spikes are crazy. it's a lot more broken that what we see in the videos.
I played the demo on ps5 performance mod when it launched and the visuals look really amazing this is the first time I felt a big generation leap between ps5 and ps4
Maybe wait a bit before replaying. Recent PS5 firmware update had something in it that is causing sudden issues in some PS5 games, 16 is one of them. So maybe wait until they figure out and fix whatever in the firmware caused this.
@@brunocicero7805 Oh, well that good it got released that quick. Although I am still extremely curious what exactly in the firmware updated caused all this.
Was very sad that I had to yet again use a mod for Ultrawide + unlocked frame rate on cutscenes but this game really is a show piece of how good games can look, very happy that Final Fantasy still aim for the stars in that regard, it's a series known for beautiful graphics, having very good time
The game looks beautiful but it really does run needlessly heavy and there isn't even any ray tracing. I'm glad the community released that FFXVI fix for stuttering and the uncapped cutscene mod as well. They do make a difference and I highly recommend them! Just by the way, I installed my FFXVI on a Samsung 980 Pro NVME and it loads instantly even from one big area to the next!
Terrain detail to medium instead of high made a big difference for me. In most area's high was fine, but in certain open area's and villages etc, it reduced stuttering a lot. First encountered this around lostwing village. Seemed like a vram bottleneck. Not 100% sure, but the stuttering rly seemed like it. on a 3060 ti 8gb vram, 1440p, fsr quality +framegen (tried updated dlss+framegen mod, but worst ghosting and fsr is pretty good in this game). All high except terrain detal +shadows on medium. Getting 60-90 fps. very dependant on different area's.
What settings do you have for lossless? I'm using it as well, only issue I'm having with it is if you move the camera too quickly the text turns into a mess. Usually easiest to see with game markers and text. Using 2.3 lfgr or whatever it's called and keeping dlss on in game.
@@ludicrits Should really only be using 2x, make sure g sync support is on too. I also use draw fps just to make sure its working, sometimes if you alt tab it requires a restart and draw FPS is the easiest way to see it I use it for emulating switch games, makes them high refresh rate without breaking physics
@@ludicrits just been playing with the demo recently. my 3070 laptop cant seem to trick the game to dldsr +dlss. si right now its 720p dlaa with integer scaling since monitor is 1440p and frame gen 2.3 with 5 frames of latency.
Yeah I'm pretty disappointed about the frame-gen in this game as well. The thing that bothers me most is that the image gets smoother but the quest markers don't get the uplift. Meaning you get a smooth image and choppy quest markers. That's so annoying. Lossless Scaling is way better because it smoothes the whole image...
Huh? Lossless scaling introduce so many artifacting and input delay for me. It's an awesome app for those that dont vave native fsr/dlss support, but its nowhere as good as fsr/dlss
LS works on everything. And relying on generic frame generation crutch with tons of artifacting is not a solution for everyone; only those desperate for more performance willing to put up with said artifacts.
@@AceStrife Yup, they aren't that visible, when someone uses LS to do 60 -> 120fps, for example. On my side, I'm fine with them even at 30 -> 60, since the framegen model is quite robust now.
@@Hatemx1 It totally should! Just set the game up with the frame capping to the half of your monitor refresh rate, so the result doesn't exceed your monitor's ability. Alternatively, you can force this out in the LS itself, if the game doesn't allow frame capping.
It's wild dude games nowadays are so horribly unoptimized that you cant even get stable frames below 480p. Do devs just slam code and ship the game out now?
Who cares, with DLSS it looks infinitely better than any old game ever did. Stop obsessing over pointless numbers and play the game in front of your eyes. The issue here are the frametime spikes, the internal resolution is meaningless these days unless you bought an AMD card, in which case too bad do better next time lmao
@@steel5897 "Stop obsessing over pointless numbers and play the game in front of your eyes" you're forgetting that you are on a DF's channel. And they don't want you to do so.
Ragnarok port is poor. The first section fools you into thinking the optimisation is good. But dlss is inconsistent and dlss frame gen is broken. UI icons are low resolution, realm tree areas and later levels just tank the performance. For some reason vram usuage keeps going up. Rtx 4070 12 gb of vram for just ps4 textures is insane.( I use dlss quality 1440p ).
@@dr.sivavignesh664 That's interesting, all the video I'm seeing looked really promising, but I admit it was in the first section of the game. I have a 4090 so I should hopefully be able to brute force through a lot of the performance issues.
@@dr.sivavignesh664 it obviously isn't using "ps4 textures" if you turn everything up in the settings... likely on low or medium texture settings it would reflect what it consumes VRAM wise on the PS4, otherwise it's obviously gonna be PS5 textures.
@@menuki6996 every version is using PS4 textures. They certainly don't have any extra detail on PS5 and the limitations of the engine were very much visible in that version. It's just higher resolution and some improved lighting/shadows.
got average 50 fps on rx 6950xt ryzen 7500f on mixed settings + fsr 3 quality in 3840x2160 without stuttering. and maximised sharpening, game looks clean and cool
I own the game on PS5 but liked it enough to consider buying it again for my high end PC but there's no way Im going to accept 30fps cutscenes on my 4090. What the hell is that about :/
I'm not sure why DF recommends DRS so strongly here. I get much worse results running that than with DLSS Performance or Balanced mode for no perceivable gain in visual quality. Maybe I'm missing something? They didn't really discuss the DLSS options in comparison.
Unfortunately this doesn't even cover the really bad areas of the game (as far as I can tell skimming through the video it's only the prologue.) As you get further in the game, for some reason it gets worse. Struggling at the start, you might be able to fix it, but then it'll get worse when your each the Hideaway. Adjust it so you get 60 FPS in the hideaway, and you'll hit a bigger dip in Lostwing. And then a bigger dip in Martha's Rest. And then a bigger dip in the second Hideaway. I'm constantly lowering settings to meet the game at its level before having to do it again at a new even more demanding area.
Yeah it's crazy. I had go from 4k DLSS Balanced at the beginning to 1440p DLSS Performance later in the game to get near 60fps stable. Can't wait to play it at 4K 120hz DLAA with an RTX 8090.
Wouldn't it mean that the game is CPU bottlenecked and not GPU bottlenecked if there are dips at 360p? Maybe do a retest with a 7800x3d and the 2070 super just to be sure?
Sounds like its programmer lazyness bottlnecked. These PC ports from Squarsoft have been like this since FF7 remake. Very poorly optimized and its best to get it a year after the pc version comes out.
Square talks about how they are not making enough money by making their games for just Playstation, but then they release horrible running ports to PC. I do not get it... We should not have to download mods to "fix" the game. I am sure there are a lot of people out there that will not buy the game due to these issues.
Yeah, I didn't buy a 4090 to play games at sub-60 and/or sub-4k. I avoided it on PS5 because I didn't want trash FR and resolution issues. And it's still like that on high end PCs 😂 Easy skip
japanese developers do not know how to optimize on PC. most of them, when they port games, will just copy paste the best console version and call it a day. I've seen so many japanese PC ports that don't even let you render at higher than 1080p, or unlock the framerates above 60, it's unreal how they have no clue what PC players expect. So many ports internally render at 1080p and use a very basic upscaler if you choose anything else... The most recent exemple i have is relayer advanced. the game doesn't allow you to render at more than 1080p and has virtually no settings available.
I’m playing the game with both a 3060 rtx 12gb and a 3080 and have not have issue playing at ultra 1080p. I do see some small dip when it gets to cutscenes but I’m assuming is that they are doing cutscenes at 30fps for some reason… no issues yet here.
@@Killer-ne7cm Ultra 1080p? 😂 Also, not to be a jerk, but if you think 30fps is a 'small dip' that you barely notice, you're just not sensitive to performance issues. That's good for you, but personally I notice and get annoyed by any dip below about 58fps.
@@purringbluzzmuffin8030 I meant that the cutscenes dip into the 30fps I’m assuming it’s a cinematic choice they are doing similar to when movies film. gameplay wise with a old rtx 3060 with 12gb of ram I’m getting a solid 60fps (using v sync) the better experience is on my 3080 but what I’m saying is even a 3060 12gb old card wasn’t a bad experience. The experience wasn’t as bad as those new games using the unreal engine and it becomes a stuttering fest of games
This game behaves bizarrely on my 6650xt / 5600 - it genuinely runs well or runs like shit just randomly. In a single area, I can load in, get 60fps - load out, load back in, no settings changes, drop down to 30fps. This games optimization is genuinely just kinda off. 1080p current gen cards are struggling to run it at 1080p, mine isn't current gen but it still is a 1080p card, you would think 1080p medium with FSR quality or performance would be smth but it genuinely seems that no matter what I tweak my perforrmance seems to be mostly controlled by RNG and not by anything else. Oddly enough, resetting my PC seems to do something to it as well. Oh well, I'll save up for a 7700XT and replay the game.
I don't understand why this game is so demanding? I have a 4090 an older but still powerful CPU an Intel 9960x. I can run this game maxed at native 4k no DLSS and get 40-60fps which I feel should be way higher. I turn DLSS on and I get 120-150+ frames. The world is small. Little to no NPCs running around doing complex things. I just have no idea why it's so demanding.
Not fault of your hardware. This game has HORRIBLE optimization. One of the worst recently, if not the worst (probably). They were very euphemistic here.
I have a decent hardware too, not the best but still decent (ryzen 7 5800x + rx 6700xt + 32gb ram). The game is running fine 2k with fsr quality and frame gen i can hit around 80-90 fps and sometimes higher than 100 with a little bit of frame spike and stuttering sometimes. But i know and feel there is still something wrong with the game the graphic is not the best but not bad either, i could stay still in okayish and acceptable and still think my hardware could achive higher performance at least i get that fps with native and no frame gen
I got VRR flickering during the 30 fps cutscenes. FFXVI Fix mod fixed this and the issue is entirely gone. Before that I had to turn off adaptive sync on my monitor, which of course introduced tearing. I am loving the game so far, but these kinds of issues are unacceptable. If a fan mod can be deployed so quickly, a multi million dollar company should be able to do so as well.
I don't know why but I really want to buy the PC version of this game even though I have a pretty midrange PC (3700x and 3070 ti) and already own the PS5 version. I think the main thing that makes me want to do it is just that I can get a pretty stable 60fps by messing with the settings where I really can't on PS5. Normally I'm fine with 30fps but I feel like it messes me up in this game
Actually it does. Like, if a setting is only 3% FPS difference on a RTX 4070 the same setting can be like 11% FPS difference on the GTX 1070 (minimum required). You have to consider the FPS range based on the GPU power.
Even with my RTX 3060 the FPS is so unstable, it takes away the fun of just exploring because you never know when the game will stutter or just die in terms of performance. I know my card is not high end but it sure isn't 360p hardware.
Is a 2070 super still considered midrange if a 4070 is considered midrange. Is it the power of the gpu or just because it's a 70 class clard makes it midrange?
Hoping to see this game get a ps5 pro upgrade, would probably be the game to sell me on upgrading since I’ve loved it but if I could get 60fps at higher than 720p it would be so much better.
It runs at 720p only during fights, but the main problem is the upsampling solution sucks, they're using the aweful fsr 1 which produces terrible image quality. And they fixed the issue with final fantasy 7 rebirth by removing upsampling all together 😂 which produces the blurriest game in hisrory. Square enix are just incompetent when it comes to technical performance of their games
The game seems to run well on a high-end PC, but poorly on mid-range ones. I think that's because it WASN'T MADE FOR the PS4, Series S, Switch, Steam Deck, or low-end PCs. This game was developed with the PS5 as a base model, barely (mostly) making 30fps, despite console-specific optimisations. If your PC is comfortably more powerful than a PS5, it seems to run great, and with unlocked framerate mods it can really stretch its wings. But if your PC is less powerful than a PS5, it will always be punching uphill. Personally, I think it's one I'll play on my next machine rather than my current one. Hopefully by then some patches will have added more options on frame rates and screen resolutions...
Technically, it *was* made for the PS4 (and more than half of its development it was a cross-gen game) but Square gave up on the PS4 version because they couldn't get it to run well enough. The distinction is relevant inasmuch as it implies technical/engine/optimization issues more than just being so good it couldn't possibly run on lower-end hardware. The game looks nice, but it doesn't look nice enough for it to have these major performance issues on mid-range hardware.
You spent so much time typing a comment that is completely irrelevant. It doesn't matter what the game was originally built for. This is not a PS5 game, it is now a PC game. I outclass the official recommended specs, and it still runs like crap. All my complaints are valid, especially after I got baited by a fairly well-running demo. Square dropped the ball on this one. That's a hard fact. End of discussion.
I have everything on the highest settings except I turned shadow quality down to medium from high, and I spend 99% of my time at 57 FPS or higher (locked at 60 FPS.) My specs are CPU: Ryzen 7 7800x3D GPU: RTX 4070 Ti Super (16 GB VRAM) RAM: 32 GB at 3200 MHz
@@theanimerapper6351 Oh I see. I tried the Lossless Scaling app and it will run the cutscenes in 60fps and helps with framerate hitches too using a type of frame gen. Best thing to do it try to get the game with settings to hit 70ish fps with unlocked framerate in game (to help with input lag), I think I had to turn off DRS (DRS seemed to bog down framerate with Lossless Scaling app), use no frame gen in game and used DLSS upscaling. Then in the Lossless Scaling app, set it to X2 for framerate. Might have to tweak and play around with settings but it really helped make the gameplay feel smoother.
They never properly explored how poorly this game actually runs even on a high end PC, Oliver has a 4090 and the only thing he was talking about is 4k 60 at most. The game has glaring fps issues beyond and not exploring that at all with a GPU that can hit those numbers with DLSS/FG is just bad. One of their worst videos on a PC port.
@@doctorfresh3856 I have a 7800x3d and the performance is also awful whenever you're trying to go above 60. It runs great in closed off areas which is most of the demo, I don't even know if they played much beyond that. As soon as you start getting to open areas, frame pacing just dies and it's impossible to fix.
This game is really fucking good and has insanely good characters written. Likely the best I have experienced. Shame on the performance even though the game is insanely good looking thing.
I'm the opposite. I found the sotry and characters boring. Stayed for the gameplay. I found the game so boring I struggled to get myself to finish it. Characters are boring. Clive was so boring and nothing burger. Spread of an ocean, depth of a lake.
5:00 I am pretty sure it's actually a SSD vs NVMe issue. I lost those frame spikes when I was able to cache the game data in to RAM. So maybe those spikes could be removed in the midrange if you were to upgrade the drive that the game is installed on.
Thinking about getting this, but before I do, I will definitely watch the video. I ran the demo quite well, but those 30 FPS locked cut scenes are very noticeable obviously. No wonder on console it’s so demanding. I will see what patches inevitably arrive but it seems like a solid port
@@Morden97I’ve heard as much but that doesn’t look awkward? Regardless I’ll likely have to run FSR3 Native AA and Frame Gen to get 60 FPS locked as I did in the demo.
@@Morden97 The pre-rendered cutscenes are still at 30 fps though, sadly... But if you use Lossless Scaling you can use its framegen to get even those up to 60 fps lol
They mentioned in this video how you can't get native 4K 60 in this game on ANY GPU. I have DLSS/dynamic scaling turned off, settings at max, set to native 4K with v-sync off. I swear it's hovering around 60. It's hard to tell because of how fast VRR changes but i see it in the 60's a lot plus it "feels" like 60 to me.
Once you're a little past the demo areas performance tanks A LOT. In the village past the small forest section, I'm getting wildly variant fps from high 50s to 120, just by 360ing the camera, on a 4070 with dlss balanced and frame gen on no DRS. oddly enough my gpu is reading 100% but msi afterburner says it's only pulling 100w (60% power draw) and it's running 10 degrees cooler than normal max load. Weird stuff l.
I remember when it launched on PS5 and people mocked the crappy resolution, saying PS5 wasn't powerful enough, despite Forbidden West looking more detailed and having a solid 1440p60 mode. And now look, the game is a mess on PC too, what a surprise.
And I don't get it... I think even old PS4 Horizon Zero Down is more beautiful than FFXVI. And also Shadow of The Tomb Raider is. This game is not that good looking for its requirements.
A problem with the PS5 Pro is that FF16 changes the level of detail in the two modes, quite a lot, and the performance mode doesn't come close to hitting 60fps.
I was in the kitchen preparing miself some food while listening to this in the background. As I overheard Alex and Oliver chatting about the usual topics-things like 'upscaling,' 'performance mode,' 'screen space reflections,' and so on-I kept catching the phrase '360p' in the mix. At first, I giggled about it, thinking I must have misheard it. I mean, in 2024, on current-gen consoles and PCs, even mentioning such a low resolution is just absurd. Once I stepped out of the kitchen, I realized it was actually true. Honestly, I'm speechless. What's up next? A 240p performance mode 'reasonably' upscaled by PSSRwasser magic tech? Unbelieveable.
I really don't get the logic of it either. They make these games that are horrendously optimised, using as much GPU as possible, everything realtime and it doesn't even look THAT good, especially given the resolution crunch needed to get a playable framerate. I think last gen games at really high res and framerates would look more impressive lol
He intentionally ran the game at 1080p with DLSS Ultra Performance (360p) to find out where the bottlenecks are. It is in no way required to play the game. The unbelievable part is that the PS5 drops the game to 720p to maintain around 50fps.
@@cloudycolacorp yes .. if we think about the gains in processing power .. I suppose everyone expected more. The new ray tracing hype and tech like UE 5's "Lumen" of course is also reducing possible complexity in geometry detail as the real time lightning is, combined with high resolutions, eating up all the gained performance .. so it's somewhat more "flashy" but not really a huge increment in overall looks somehow
I'm surprised you guys didn't check out the FSR3 + Frame Gen implementation in the game. FWIW I'm running a 7900 XTX and managed to pull off Native FSR at 1440p ultrawide locked at 60 with frame gen hitting 120fps. I have noticed some halo / ghosting effects from FSR3 however its seems really random? Some scenes with specular highlights trigger it but then when i try to recreate it i can't. Really weird behaviour. Also the FPS running at native without frame gen was all over the place, some scenes were 110fps others like in the castle at the start or the first forest area were high 70s with sudden drops to 60. Frame gen definitely feels really good here and I noticed very little input lag and it appears to be paced well. Interested to see if you have a chance to investigate.
literally! I am getting over 75 fps most of the time with an I7 8700K, 3080, 32gb RAM but there are some areas that are giving me around 50 fps no matter what settings I put the game on lol.
I may have no idea what i'm on about but it seems like the stutters near cutscenes/dialogue, it could be loading all the script and loading the npcs in at the same time causing a big lag spike, but if it's coming from the GPU end then that just baffles me
Does anyone know at what framerate the dynamic resolution kicks in? And is it base ono your mx frame rate? Or is it something like it always kicks in if it dips below 60?
Square's ports are always awful. It's just some require less tinkering to fix than others. I've had to fix just about every Square port in my library in some fashion except for the PS1 and SNES era games.
At least the game seems to be fairly multi-threaded. Got pretty high CPU usage on my older i9-10900F and RTX3070 rig when playing the demo. Even so this is a technically peculiar game, not just on PC.
Thank you DF for all the hard work as usual, but I would say I prefer the old format. These newer PC focused videos don't feel like they have the same deep dive into how the games work on the various tiers of hardware that used to be shown.
This channel became very bad. Oliver laughing all the time talking about when the DSR lower the resolution and the bad performances Alex had gave me the creeps. He seemed very snob, elitist and mocking. Most of people don't have his ultra high-end and have to use these technics or play the game on lower graphics. I wish he could be more respectful.
I havent seen hardly any hitches and I have my fram graph running just to make sure, but I am usually very sensitive to stutters. So I turned on my metrics and nope very smooth graph. I have a 4090 with a 13700k. I notice a lot of people complaining of stutter having an AMD cpu and quite a few of those being x3d. Idk, but I am just not getting these stutters some of you have
The ultrawide mod and unlocked framerate cutscenes mod are game changers. Please download them
I truly don't understand the reasoning behind locking the cutscenes to 30fps. I assumed they were video files at first
Me either ..I assume they will bring out an official patch eventually now that they see it can be done lol but it's not perfect. There are visual glitches here and there but it's very rare and well worth it@@RaccoonBrigade
Even for the prerendered cutscenes?
The "Lossless Scaling" app really helped with frame hitches in this game. Can see the cut scenes in 60fps too.
You know the devs are smokin' something when they don't provide ultrawide support and fully unlocked FPS by default.
"This game was designed to run on PS5, so don't expect to be able to run smoothly at 360p unless you have a 4080". What the hell, Oliver?
Literally LOLed at the 360p prerendered cutscene. Amazing.
NEXT GEN
Peak 😂
Square really firing with all cylinders here. Soon we will get some sweet 240p games
@@nujiyoma Alex says right at 13:00 that the prerendered cutscenes have a bug where they output at 360p rather than the output resolution.
From my experience, the cutscene stuttering is NOT a CPU/GPU bound issue. The overlay on my rig isn't reading the drops. Square Enix needs to unclog the toilet.
VRS affects the water distortions, screen space reflection and depth of field. If you use FSR on a performance preset you WILL notice the pixelation of those effects. Or in your case of using DLSS at a very low resolution you suddenly notice the lower res effects. And turning VRS off will make these things match the INTERNAL resolution instead of lower.
look, it's incredible that these are that focuses on the technical aspect and the whole world also reports them... every time I open a video of them there are a row of bullshit one after the other...
I noticed VRS made a huge visual difference when trying to get it to run on the Steam Deck at 720p as well, the difference is clear as day if you turn the resolution way down.
So off or on? I dont get it
I played the Entire game on PS5 on Quality Mode with: Motion Blur 3, No Auto Tracking on Movement - and both Camera Speed increased: This resulted in dramatically smoother and much better motion handling and image clarity in exploration and combat. However, PS5 (or Pro at least) should have 40 FPS Mode running in 120Hz Container set on Quality Mode graphics settings. Hopefully PS5 Pro can provide that at least - but Japanese Devs seem unaware of 40 FPS in 120H Container option
That would be super nice
Played it on performance mode because 30fps is just too jarring for me. I don't mind the resolution differences because you could hardly tell in this game's fast paced combat.
40fps sucks
Thanks, insomniac, for that magic
Can't just magically make 10 extra frames at the snap of your finger.
what's funny is that FFXV is also still a heavy game even on a 4090 at 4K
Because the game is not optimized well for PC. Squaresoft has a history of doing this with consol ports. FF7 was the same way. A year later is played allot better on pc. I have the game but its just going to sit in my steam account for a while till they optimize it better then I'll play it.
Well well well. Seems like the game isn’t going to sell well on other platforms either 😢😮
@@michaelmichaelagnew8503 since FFXIII lol, terrible ports
Stranger of Paradise, anyone?
Takes the cake for one of the worst optimized games in recent years, and definitely SE's worst one. Game can't even keep 120FPS with DLSS on a 4090 @ 3440x1440, and looks 10 years out of date (aside from the character models.. because they use a million triangles). It barely ran at 30FPS on a 1080 Ti.
FFXV I find is actually extremely CPU bound. 5950x bottlenecks quite badly, and all of the NVIDIA settings hammer that bottleneck even more. Turn off that crap and the game runs so much better.. but does objectively look worse. Typical of NVIDIA, now moreso than ever with RTX.
@@AceStrife yeah, if the 5090 is at least 50% faster than the 4090 it's gonna run into CPU bottlenecks a LOT more even at 4K in a lot of games. I have a feeling the 9800X3D won't be a huge leap over the 7800X3D
My biggest gripe with this game is that it simply doesn't look visibly good enough to justify all this GPU load
Definitely agree there. While at times it does look amazing for of the time I feel like I’m looking at Skyrim textures in towns and villages.
Anyone else shocked how decent it looks at 360p lol. DLSS is black magic. I’m watching on a big TV and it still holds up well considering it’s a PS2 gen resolution!
Dlss is brilliant. I can't wait to see what rtx 5xxx cards bring to it. I still remember the first time dlss came out with Metro Exodus and people hated it. It was awful. I knew it would eventually be loved. If Sony can somehow get pssr up to it console ppl will be in for a treat but idk if they will. Figure it will always be between fsr and dlss though
Hoping PSSR gets to that level! 👏
This is one of the reasons I can't wait for the next Switch! I'm sure DLSS will do wonders for it and bridge the gap to the more powerful consoles.
@@fenixa2z936 Sony has the best upscaling on the market on their high end TV's. I bet they can make it happen.
@@fenixa2z936It already makes fsr look like a joke, it'll get there eventually with some updates
360p upscaled to 1080p with DLSS looks infinitely better than I thought it would tbh
Awful? It looks awful.
It probably looks decent on UA-cam but horrible in person.
Nah, it looks horrible. It's artifacting constantly and extremely blurry/pixelated. Whatever you're seeing on UA-cam is compressed and not a proper view of how the game will look on your monitor.
@@readifdumb Well I recently tried dlss ultra performance from 1440p in Ragnarök and it was fully playable and nice looking image. Really surprised me, but I got enough performance to play it with DLAA:)
@@maksim1415 We're talking about 360p, 1440p has more information for the upscaler to go off of.
Cutscene unlock mod is absolute banger. The game is great on a decent PC, I'm having a lot of fun
I didnt realize those scenes were prerendered immediately l, as they werent horrible compressed like most games do prerendere scenes. Im glad.
Prerendered is nice for low end pc
😂…what? Did you have a stroke when writing this?
The prerendered cutscenes are so horribly compressed, you should get your eyes checked. ❤
Bitrate of pre rendered cutscenes is pretty high in ff games
At 4K you notice immediately when it's prerended lol. Those scenes still look great though
Various cutscenes blend real time graphics and prerendered videos in the same scene (e.g. the war at the Republican Army frontlines, right at the beginning of the demo/full game -- the NPCs and particle effects are prerendered videos but the entire environment is rendered in real time). One of the devs explained that and showed examples at a GDC talk sometime after it launched on PS5...
It's insane that Square prides themselves on having good looking games and still allows this kind of performance with every damn port to PC.
the game isn't even that good looking
I don’t know how you can equate this port to something like the Remake launch which was atrocious. There’s a huge difference between “practically unplayable” and what we see here.
@@necroguy11 Never said one can't be worse than the other. They can both still be garbage ports, with one being terrible and the other unplayable. It's never been a race for one port to be the shittiest. 🤣
@@Gungrave123 That's a wild take.
No one gives a shit about pc. I know this as a pc gamer since 2009.
You guys dropped the ball here. The areas after what was in the demo run SIGNIFICANTLY worse.
My 3080TI struggles to hit 60 FPS on low settings 720p (4k DLSS Ultra Performance). That's not acceptable for what we're seeing on the screen.
Cyberpunk with RT Overdrive is only slightly more demanding than this one.
I think your target resolution might be too high. I am also using a 3080ti but am at 1440p Balanced FSR and FG and it still looks very, very good. I get 100+fps in indoor areas and 70+fps in the open world.
@@nlikeflynn8837 I'm glad you're enjoying the game, but I can't stand the low res image quality and frame gen artifacts.
You performance kinda checks out, 1440p Balanced FSR is internal res 835p, I believe. The game runs at about 40 FPS which gets boosted by frame-gen to 70's. Lostwing ran the worst for me so far, but Rosaria is not far behind (or ahead, I guess).
My point is nothing on the screen suggests the game should run this poorly. I can play Crysis 3, which has much, much better environments (but worse characters) at native 4K 340 FPS... I understand these are different rendering techniques, but still, I expected at least 60 FPS with internal res 1440p. Hell, Hellblade Senua's Saga runs better than this and looks about 10x better.
I'm going to wait for a year or two to really enjoy the game. I played it on console already, suffering through 30 FPS. I wanted to finally play it with good framerates and crisp image :/
@@Mesjach Okay I'm not saying Crysis 3 is a bad looking game. It's aged quite well in fact. But in what universe does it have better looking environments than Final Fantasy XVI?? 😭
@@Mesjach i have to agree. 16 looks good but is it really that much better than say 15 from years ago? i really dont think so and the fidelity here just doesn't justify the performance we're getting. they should really stop trying to push miniscule graphics improvements and make games run well instead
That's your PC sadly. Mine runs fine on a 4070 Super Ti at 4k
I feel like effects causing frame drops on the 2070 but not the 4090 could be a bandwidth issue not a raw gpu performance one
I don't know, both the 2070 and PS5 have the exact same bandwith, console gets extra low level api optimizations, but the 2070 doesn't have to fight the CPU for bandwith, well, is not like the PS5 version had perfect frame rate either.
I bet its DENUVO
I mean no the 2070s has the exact same bandwith as the ps5 and it isnt shared between the cpu so in theory it should be the same
@@fenix_tx_1342 You have to keep in mind that a game designed for a console will be able to do cpu«--»memory and gpu«--»memory read/write operations at roughly the same speed, and many games take advantage of this. A shader might start getting processed on the gpu, written to memory at at 10Gbps, and then read by the cpu at 10Gbps, and finish processing on the cpu. Doing something like this on a discrete card means that the data would have to take a round trip around the pcie bus, essentially using regular slow ram as vram, which is a big no no when it comes to gpu programming. So yeah, the memory speed might be similar on paper, but in practice there is a lot of difference. Don't really know what the issue is with this particular game, but i have a hunch that square enix isn't putting in the required effort for ports like these.
@@uzayonat people should have already figured it out that if you're going to expect the best representation from a lot of these games, they better have the best GPUs available to consumers and that's just sad. Or get a console and finish that fight early without compromise as the way it was intended to be played.
Square Enix being afraid to use FSR2 in the PS5 FF games for some reason.
FFVII Rebirth with biliniear upscaling looking soft AF in the performance mode and FFXVI using FSR1 for some reason.
same goes with FF14
it only got DLSS 2 and FSR 1 LOL
@@kumomeme7852 DLSS 2 is alright. It must be hell to implement in such an old, janky engine. It was probably long in the work way before DLSS 3
@@alexandrebelair4360 it's actually DLSS 3.5 according to the DLL. the implementation is VERY flawed though, so yeah - janky, old engine
Because FSR2 significantly increases ghosting compared standard TAA, especially on alpha effects which Final Fantasy games are notorious for.
FSR1 while flawed, is spatial and does not use temporal frames. DLSS2-3 is apparently mature enough to mitigate ghosting.
@@AlexanTheMan dude, FFXVI and FFVIIR2 look awful in performance mode, early FSR2 introduced some ghosting but it's much better than whatever we currently have.
Thank you for the Optimized settings table. I screen shot it for later use after watching the whole video.
On an rtx 3070 I should never be hitting as low fps as I am in this game on low settings, why am I getting 20 to 40 fps in every single town I get into.
FF16 support DirectStorage. It might be the reason of framerate dropped.
This was borderline unplayable for me on PS5. Quality mode looked so choppy at times...and the ghosting especially on my player as I'm panning the cam was absolutely horrible. But performance mode was even worse...a low res blurry mess, with FPS all over the place. So I gave up, and decided to wait for PC to play this masterpiece properly.
The PC demo ran beautifully on my PC actually on max settings, 1440p res DLSS quality. I5-12600K and RTX 4080. I'm getting locked 75fps with vsync on. So no complaints!
The VRS stuff I always find interesting. You assume there is a reason for it. Or that some test at some point would have shown it impacting performance. But then I remembered Kaze's video on SM64 where he found a bunch of algorithms they used to "improve" performance that were net 0 / worse because doing the optimization itself costs some amount of processing power (nothing is free). It really makes me wonder if there are some similar cases in modern rendering pipelines (especially tools like UE4/5)
vrs is pointless/ it kills image quality for highres
VRS itself is pretty complex and requires its own algorithm. To get the most out of it you need to have many many many pixels share a color. Well, most games these days dont do that. Maybe on something like Doom, where most of the upper screen is a redish brown but its mostly not worth it, you'd be better off reducing the res slighty and bilinear it up or something before you render the UI.
@@Kiyuja in this age of recontruction vrs is pointless even in doom xbox had higher res but bad image
VRS is necessary for UE5 titles. Wait, is FFXVI UE5? I think it's frizzing out because of something the devs did while tinkering with the settings. And if it's not UE5, their implementation of VRS is busted. The demo had a huge issue with VRS and that was somewhat fixed with its most recent patch.
@@Manganization ue5 is just shit nothing can save it
13:28 I want chunky sharp pixels over a blur filter!
no you dont. That works best for pixelart but not really 3D graphics. On RPCS3 I often had to pick nearest to get from 720p to 1440p and trust me, it looked real bad on Midnight Club. I'd take bilinear every day, not on pixelart tho
@@Kiyuja I will never understand why people like a blur image, it's confusing.
@@liaminwales because you literally had the image tile up with artefacts. The backlight of the cars literally looked like a red checkerboard. If you actually want that over a slight smoothing then I highly question your sanity
@@Kiyuja "slight smoothing" is a mischaracterization. It is a complete full screen blur. The same reason why people hate FXAA/TAA. Many people want sharp graphics, with proper anti-aliasing (multisampling).
You can play with your blurry filtering if you want, but saying it's the "right" way to play is completely misguided. It's an opinion, not a fact.
Also if your emulator is blurry at higher resolution, you're not increasing the render resolution properly, which is a config issue. Also integer scaling exists. And if it can't be integer scaled, then lanczos filtering exists.
About the stutters I believe the game is coded around real time data decompression similar to many PS5-lead games, but ported for CPU on PC which can bog down the CPU when the game asks a bunch of assets just-in-time. When you do an action for the first time, the game probably calls the related assets at that very moment lol.
Also the thing that makes the game heavy is the lighting technique they used. It's a form of modified PCSS in very very high quality.
Even with DirectStorage? The DLL is in the game files.
@@AceStrife I did not know that, but to be honest even DS1.2 is not that good. It still stages data in the system RAM first before VRAM. So there's a lot of data shuffling about.
Have they fixed the Ultrawide Support.
Those weird "inexplicable" frame time spikes sound a whole lot like poorly implemented Denuvo DRM checks.
The timing of some of those stutters makes me wonder if they're loading related. I've noticed the game will use nearly 100% of my entire 7950X3D when loading, so I can certainly see it causing some stutters on a lower end CPU if the game engine isn't limiting it properly. It doesn't look like it from the on-screen CPU usage you have on the footage, but the polling rate of that is fairly low so it could be missing some spikes.
The upside is the game does load incredibly fast. With a top-end PCIE 4.0 NVME (WD SN850X) fast travelling around the world is 1-2 seconds and loading from the main menu is around 5 seconds.
I have a 7900x, I've also noticed in some of the bigger maps were you can sprint the cpu usage spikes to 80%-90% while sprinting.
I'm thinking they are poorly implemented Denuvo DRM checks
Thank you so much for using that 2070 super for so long. It helps a lot!
Not my favorite FF but i'm glad non-ps5 owners can finally give this game a go.
Not mine either, but it's not a bad game at all. A bit uneven in pacing, and lacks true challenge for how complex the game mechanics are. You shouldn't have to unlock "hard" mode after finishing it.
oof
Yeah, I have my problems with XVI, but overall, it's defo a game worth playing.
Game got boring way too quick, combat had potential but even small enemies took way to long to kill which ruined it
Enjoying it but it makes me want to play 15 again
The frametime spikes are so bad when i explore Rosaria. The game is beautiful but even on low settings i have this spikes that feel just so bad... I hope they patch this soon...
What's your rig?
@@Hatemx1 Just got the game running so smooth with specific settings. Using FSR3 with Frame Gen on and 60 fps. Dynamic Res off and VRS off. That made my game run smooth and on High Settings. 3060 ti and Ryzen 5 5600x is my rig
frame gen only works with 40 series gpus tho
@@user-yo3cg9ev8y the game has fsr frame generation and dlss frame generation? are you saying not as good?
Doing a PC port while not uncapping the cutscenes keeping them at 30fps AND no ultrawide support is kind of a low in 2024...
Overall, the game is a banger ofc! Hope YoshiP watch the video and ask his team to do better. :)
And then square enix will say that sales were low 😂
Playing at 360p is so sad.
I do wonder if there is some JIT asset loading shenagins, it is a homebrew engine and I suspect they may have relied a bit too much on the PS5 direct storage.
The PC version does have DirectStorage files in the game directory, so it should be using it on PC too.
Maybe the storage subsystem on PC, and wildly varying SSDs, just isn't enough to match the PS5.
@@AceStrife That's exactly what I mean by "relied too much" :)
Alex, the fire demons have names and they deserve your respect
Why would he know their names. Grow up
arguably spoilers, for all that we learn who one of them must be in perhaps the first 15 minutes
@@simonrockstream imagine telling someone to grow up on a channel about professional video game dissection…
NEEEEEEEERD!!!!
however i have a lot of problems with this game with 3080 and 5800x like 30fps in the specific dungeon of the fallen ones.
i mean 30 fps with DLSS and dynamic resolution.
And the game as something wrong.
my gpu is always at 100% use but i have low Wattage usage, and lower clock sometimes.
it's the only game i have with this behavioure.
And the cpu usage spikes are crazy.
it's a lot more broken that what we see in the videos.
I played the demo on ps5 performance mod when it launched and the visuals look really amazing this is the first time I felt a big generation leap between ps5 and ps4
Dang, all this talk about FFXVI makes me want to play it again. I flew through it when it came out on PS5. Super fun.
Give a try to the DLC, they are both great !
Maybe wait a bit before replaying. Recent PS5 firmware update had something in it that is causing sudden issues in some PS5 games, 16 is one of them. So maybe wait until they figure out and fix whatever in the firmware caused this.
@@voistar5387 They have already released a patch to address this issue.
@@brunocicero7805 Oh, well that good it got released that quick.
Although I am still extremely curious what exactly in the firmware updated caused all this.
Im seeing ghosting 💔😔
Was very sad that I had to yet again use a mod for Ultrawide + unlocked frame rate on cutscenes but this game really is a show piece of how good games can look, very happy that Final Fantasy still aim for the stars in that regard, it's a series known for beautiful graphics, having very good time
The game looks beautiful but it really does run needlessly heavy and there isn't even any ray tracing. I'm glad the community released that FFXVI fix for stuttering and the uncapped cutscene mod as well. They do make a difference and I highly recommend them! Just by the way, I installed my FFXVI on a Samsung 980 Pro NVME and it loads instantly even from one big area to the next!
lol no it does not - especially not "face red heart shape".
@@xBINARYGODx are you blind??
Terrain detail to medium instead of high made a big difference for me. In most area's high was fine, but in certain open area's and villages etc, it reduced stuttering a lot. First encountered this around lostwing village. Seemed like a vram bottleneck. Not 100% sure, but the stuttering rly seemed like it.
on a 3060 ti 8gb vram, 1440p, fsr quality +framegen (tried updated dlss+framegen mod, but worst ghosting and fsr is pretty good in this game). All high except terrain detal +shadows on medium. Getting 60-90 fps. very dependant on different area's.
It probably is some sort of bottleneck since those areas also seemed to chug quite a bit on PS5 in performance mode.
Scratching my head how lossless scaling frame gen can get less visual issues than the ingame fsr gen
What settings do you have for lossless?
I'm using it as well, only issue I'm having with it is if you move the camera too quickly the text turns into a mess. Usually easiest to see with game markers and text.
Using 2.3 lfgr or whatever it's called and keeping dlss on in game.
@@ludicrits Should really only be using 2x, make sure g sync support is on too. I also use draw fps just to make sure its working, sometimes if you alt tab it requires a restart and draw FPS is the easiest way to see it
I use it for emulating switch games, makes them high refresh rate without breaking physics
@@ludicrits just been playing with the demo recently. my 3070 laptop cant seem to trick the game to dldsr +dlss. si right now its 720p dlaa with integer scaling since monitor is 1440p and frame gen 2.3 with 5 frames of latency.
Yeah I'm pretty disappointed about the frame-gen in this game as well. The thing that bothers me most is that the image gets smoother but the quest markers don't get the uplift. Meaning you get a smooth image and choppy quest markers. That's so annoying. Lossless Scaling is way better because it smoothes the whole image...
Huh? Lossless scaling introduce so many artifacting and input delay for me. It's an awesome app for those that dont vave native fsr/dlss support, but its nowhere as good as fsr/dlss
These expected jumps from 30fps to 60fps in the demo - I used Lossless Scaling application to alleviate that, to bring 60fps everywhere. :)
Does LS work for FF7R?
LS works on everything.
And relying on generic frame generation crutch with tons of artifacting is not a solution for everyone; only those desperate for more performance willing to put up with said artifacts.
@@AceStrife Didn't seem to work for me on FF7R.
@@AceStrife Yup, they aren't that visible, when someone uses LS to do 60 -> 120fps, for example. On my side, I'm fine with them even at 30 -> 60, since the framegen model is quite robust now.
@@Hatemx1 It totally should! Just set the game up with the frame capping to the half of your monitor refresh rate, so the result doesn't exceed your monitor's ability.
Alternatively, you can force this out in the LS itself, if the game doesn't allow frame capping.
*GTA V on the Xbox 360* : wobbly 30FPS 720p
*Modern Games* : wobbly 30 at 360p
It's wild dude games nowadays are so horribly unoptimized that you cant even get stable frames below 480p. Do devs just slam code and ship the game out now?
Who cares, with DLSS it looks infinitely better than any old game ever did. Stop obsessing over pointless numbers and play the game in front of your eyes.
The issue here are the frametime spikes, the internal resolution is meaningless these days unless you bought an AMD card, in which case too bad do better next time lmao
@@steel5897 "Stop obsessing over pointless numbers and play the game in front of your eyes" you're forgetting that you are on a DF's channel. And they don't want you to do so.
Between this and the new Ragnarok port, should be a great weekend.
Ragnarok port is poor. The first section fools you into thinking the optimisation is good. But dlss is inconsistent and dlss frame gen is broken. UI icons are low resolution, realm tree areas and later levels just tank the performance. For some reason vram usuage keeps going up. Rtx 4070 12 gb of vram for just ps4 textures is insane.( I use dlss quality 1440p ).
@@dr.sivavignesh664 That's interesting, all the video I'm seeing looked really promising, but I admit it was in the first section of the game. I have a 4090 so I should hopefully be able to brute force through a lot of the performance issues.
@@dr.sivavignesh664 it obviously isn't using "ps4 textures" if you turn everything up in the settings... likely on low or medium texture settings it would reflect what it consumes VRAM wise on the PS4, otherwise it's obviously gonna be PS5 textures.
@@HorseheadNebula85you'll be fine with your 4090.
@@menuki6996 every version is using PS4 textures. They certainly don't have any extra detail on PS5 and the limitations of the engine were very much visible in that version. It's just higher resolution and some improved lighting/shadows.
got average 50 fps on rx 6950xt ryzen 7500f on mixed settings + fsr 3 quality in 3840x2160 without stuttering. and maximised sharpening, game looks clean and cool
I own the game on PS5 but liked it enough to consider buying it again for my high end PC but there's no way Im going to accept 30fps cutscenes on my 4090. What the hell is that about :/
This makes me wonder if the DRM, if any, might be causing the issues a la Resident Evil 8? Still Great Job on The Video! :)
I'm not sure why DF recommends DRS so strongly here. I get much worse results running that than with DLSS Performance or Balanced mode for no perceivable gain in visual quality. Maybe I'm missing something? They didn't really discuss the DLSS options in comparison.
You are not missing anything.
Unfortunately this doesn't even cover the really bad areas of the game (as far as I can tell skimming through the video it's only the prologue.)
As you get further in the game, for some reason it gets worse. Struggling at the start, you might be able to fix it, but then it'll get worse when your each the Hideaway. Adjust it so you get 60 FPS in the hideaway, and you'll hit a bigger dip in Lostwing. And then a bigger dip in Martha's Rest. And then a bigger dip in the second Hideaway. I'm constantly lowering settings to meet the game at its level before having to do it again at a new even more demanding area.
Yeah it's crazy. I had go from 4k DLSS Balanced at the beginning to 1440p DLSS Performance later in the game to get near 60fps stable.
Can't wait to play it at 4K 120hz DLAA with an RTX 8090.
drops at 360p.... JFC
I was pretty happy with the demo performance on my RX7800XT. Probably going to pick this up for my second play through
Hey what’s your cpu & how did it run for you since this will be a pretty solid gauge for the expected ps5 pro performance in this game
Wouldn't it mean that the game is CPU bottlenecked and not GPU bottlenecked if there are dips at 360p? Maybe do a retest with a 7800x3d and the 2070 super just to be sure?
Doesnt matter
Sounds like its programmer lazyness bottlnecked. These PC ports from Squarsoft have been like this since FF7 remake. Very poorly optimized and its best to get it a year after the pc version comes out.
I've been getting a limited 20 FPS with a slightly better PC than the MID-RANGE options. Super confused as to why.
Square talks about how they are not making enough money by making their games for just Playstation, but then they release horrible running ports to PC. I do not get it... We should not have to download mods to "fix" the game. I am sure there are a lot of people out there that will not buy the game due to these issues.
Yeah, I didn't buy a 4090 to play games at sub-60 and/or sub-4k. I avoided it on PS5 because I didn't want trash FR and resolution issues. And it's still like that on high end PCs 😂
Easy skip
japanese developers do not know how to optimize on PC. most of them, when they port games, will just copy paste the best console version and call it a day. I've seen so many japanese PC ports that don't even let you render at higher than 1080p, or unlock the framerates above 60, it's unreal how they have no clue what PC players expect. So many ports internally render at 1080p and use a very basic upscaler if you choose anything else...
The most recent exemple i have is relayer advanced. the game doesn't allow you to render at more than 1080p and has virtually no settings available.
I’m playing the game with both a 3060 rtx 12gb and a 3080 and have not have issue playing at ultra 1080p. I do see some small dip when it gets to cutscenes but I’m assuming is that they are doing cutscenes at 30fps for some reason… no issues yet here.
@@Killer-ne7cm Ultra 1080p? 😂 Also, not to be a jerk, but if you think 30fps is a 'small dip' that you barely notice, you're just not sensitive to performance issues. That's good for you, but personally I notice and get annoyed by any dip below about 58fps.
@@purringbluzzmuffin8030 I meant that the cutscenes dip into the 30fps I’m assuming it’s a cinematic choice they are doing similar to when movies film. gameplay wise with a old rtx 3060 with 12gb of ram I’m getting a solid 60fps (using v sync) the better experience is on my 3080 but what I’m saying is even a 3060 12gb old card wasn’t a bad experience. The experience wasn’t as bad as those new games using the unreal engine and it becomes a stuttering fest of games
This game behaves bizarrely on my 6650xt / 5600 - it genuinely runs well or runs like shit just randomly. In a single area, I can load in, get 60fps - load out, load back in, no settings changes, drop down to 30fps.
This games optimization is genuinely just kinda off. 1080p current gen cards are struggling to run it at 1080p, mine isn't current gen but it still is a 1080p card, you would think 1080p medium with FSR quality or performance would be smth but it genuinely seems that no matter what I tweak my perforrmance seems to be mostly controlled by RNG and not by anything else.
Oddly enough, resetting my PC seems to do something to it as well. Oh well, I'll save up for a 7700XT and replay the game.
I don't understand why this game is so demanding? I have a 4090 an older but still powerful CPU an Intel 9960x. I can run this game maxed at native 4k no DLSS and get 40-60fps which I feel should be way higher. I turn DLSS on and I get 120-150+ frames.
The world is small. Little to no NPCs running around doing complex things. I just have no idea why it's so demanding.
Probably Denuvo and this is just not a very well optimized game.
Not fault of your hardware. This game has HORRIBLE optimization. One of the worst recently, if not the worst (probably). They were very euphemistic here.
I have a decent hardware too, not the best but still decent (ryzen 7 5800x + rx 6700xt + 32gb ram). The game is running fine 2k with fsr quality and frame gen i can hit around 80-90 fps and sometimes higher than 100 with a little bit of frame spike and stuttering sometimes. But i know and feel there is still something wrong with the game the graphic is not the best but not bad either, i could stay still in okayish and acceptable and still think my hardware could achive higher performance at least i get that fps with native and no frame gen
Don't worry, NVIDIA got your back. 5090 is coming soon for $1999 RPP and your card will probably go on sale for $999 and $699 used.
Don't forget to buy new 2kw PSU.
can't believe that the 2070 super is considered low end. how often are we expected to upgrade to "keep up" with these demanding games?
I got VRR flickering during the 30 fps cutscenes. FFXVI Fix mod fixed this and the issue is entirely gone. Before that I had to turn off adaptive sync on my monitor, which of course introduced tearing. I am loving the game so far, but these kinds of issues are unacceptable. If a fan mod can be deployed so quickly, a multi million dollar company should be able to do so as well.
I would like to see performance mode be 1080p with PSSR upscaled to 4k at 60 fps. No need to touch anything else on ps5 pro update.
They probably wouldn't touch anything else regardless tbh
@@1meen1 yeah as I see there's no need to tbh. Just 60 fps with PSSR and higher render resolution from which it will upscale to either 1440p or 4k.
I don't know why but I really want to buy the PC version of this game even though I have a pretty midrange PC (3700x and 3070 ti) and already own the PS5 version. I think the main thing that makes me want to do it is just that I can get a pretty stable 60fps by messing with the settings where I really can't on PS5. Normally I'm fine with 30fps but I feel like it messes me up in this game
what’s the point of Graphics settings if they don’t affect your performance?
Actually it does. Like, if a setting is only 3% FPS difference on a RTX 4070 the same setting can be like 11% FPS difference on the GTX 1070 (minimum required). You have to consider the FPS range based on the GPU power.
Anyone know how to fix "Error : Access violation"? Happens randomly when playing :(
Bro called ifrit and phoenix fire demons 😭
Ifrit I understand. Phoenix just a birb though.
Yeah, they literally are. Why tf would he know their names
@@simonrockstream uhh, because he supposedly played through the game? Lol
@@Thomastm33 Phoenix the Fire birb, and Ifrit the FIre Kaiju
@@simonrockstream can you stop with the "why would he" comments as if you are saying something logical?
Can i run this game at 1080p 60fps solid with a rtx 2080? Dlss quality
Even with my RTX 3060 the FPS is so unstable, it takes away the fun of just exploring because you never know when the game will stutter or just die in terms of performance. I know my card is not high end but it sure isn't 360p hardware.
Is a 2070 super still considered midrange if a 4070 is considered midrange. Is it the power of the gpu or just because it's a 70 class clard makes it midrange?
Hoping to see this game get a ps5 pro upgrade, would probably be the game to sell me on upgrading since I’ve loved it but if I could get 60fps at higher than 720p it would be so much better.
lol “pro” console that can’t do 720p 60 is sad if it can’t.
It’s going to be base 1440 at 60 with max settings
It runs at 720p only during fights, but the main problem is the upsampling solution sucks, they're using the aweful fsr 1 which produces terrible image quality. And they fixed the issue with final fantasy 7 rebirth by removing upsampling all together 😂 which produces the blurriest game in hisrory. Square enix are just incompetent when it comes to technical performance of their games
@@trickshotgamingtrickshotgamingwow you must work at Squeenix
I think its memory bandwidth fps drops on low end cards
The game seems to run well on a high-end PC, but poorly on mid-range ones. I think that's because it WASN'T MADE FOR the PS4, Series S, Switch, Steam Deck, or low-end PCs.
This game was developed with the PS5 as a base model, barely (mostly) making 30fps, despite console-specific optimisations. If your PC is comfortably more powerful than a PS5, it seems to run great, and with unlocked framerate mods it can really stretch its wings. But if your PC is less powerful than a PS5, it will always be punching uphill.
Personally, I think it's one I'll play on my next machine rather than my current one. Hopefully by then some patches will have added more options on frame rates and screen resolutions...
Technically, it *was* made for the PS4 (and more than half of its development it was a cross-gen game) but Square gave up on the PS4 version because they couldn't get it to run well enough. The distinction is relevant inasmuch as it implies technical/engine/optimization issues more than just being so good it couldn't possibly run on lower-end hardware. The game looks nice, but it doesn't look nice enough for it to have these major performance issues on mid-range hardware.
Square-Enix has struggled with optimization for a while now, they are horrible at it.
@@kojiyama-p3fsame thing for forspoken or gotham knights for that matter
You spent so much time typing a comment that is completely irrelevant.
It doesn't matter what the game was originally built for. This is not a PS5 game, it is now a PC game.
I outclass the official recommended specs, and it still runs like crap.
All my complaints are valid, especially after I got baited by a fairly well-running demo.
Square dropped the ball on this one. That's a hard fact.
End of discussion.
@@franciscor390 Yep its a trend with all their PC ports.
I have everything on the highest settings except I turned shadow quality down to medium from high, and I spend 99% of my time at 57 FPS or higher (locked at 60 FPS.)
My specs are
CPU: Ryzen 7 7800x3D
GPU: RTX 4070 Ti Super (16 GB VRAM)
RAM: 32 GB at 3200 MHz
You're not supposed to even drop to 60fps area let alone 57fps with that rig...
@@sandwich4916 I have a 60 Hz monitor.
@@sandwich4916 So I voluntarily cap it at 60 FPS to prevent screen tearing.
@@ex0stasis72 Understandable. Have a nice day.
Why am I getting constant stutters on 4070ti 7800x3d dlss balance? it was so bad i refunded the game
Probably should wait till they optimize the game. They have a history of releasing games that are not optimized for the pc when they first come out.
What storage were you running it on?
Only blur-free doable 60fps setting: 1440 native (no upscaling blur sht) on medium with ReShade SMAA
If you are playing this game download the mod fix it is a must
What does the mod fix do?
@@robertlawrence9000 unlock the cutscene fps
@@theanimerapper6351 Oh I see. I tried the Lossless Scaling app and it will run the cutscenes in 60fps and helps with framerate hitches too using a type of frame gen. Best thing to do it try to get the game with settings to hit 70ish fps with unlocked framerate in game (to help with input lag), I think I had to turn off DRS (DRS seemed to bog down framerate with Lossless Scaling app), use no frame gen in game and used DLSS upscaling. Then in the Lossless Scaling app, set it to X2 for framerate. Might have to tweak and play around with settings but it really helped make the gameplay feel smoother.
And removes black boarders @@theanimerapper6351
A must? Who cares they are just cutscenes. Regular gameplay runs up to 240fps already.
I found VRS affects the torches in the game, the fire effects look more pixelated with VRS on.
thank you for the table! will be applying your knowledge when i launch the game again
I miss the more heavily edited videos. Podcast format doesnt really do it for me.
are these random frame time spikes caused by denuvo ?
I guess so there's no other explanation it even happens for high end gpus
They never properly explored how poorly this game actually runs even on a high end PC, Oliver has a 4090 and the only thing he was talking about is 4k 60 at most. The game has glaring fps issues beyond and not exploring that at all with a GPU that can hit those numbers with DLSS/FG is just bad. One of their worst videos on a PC port.
@@omarcomming722 Maybe it's that 13700k that's causing those poor results.
@@doctorfresh3856 I have a 7800x3d and the performance is also awful whenever you're trying to go above 60. It runs great in closed off areas which is most of the demo, I don't even know if they played much beyond that. As soon as you start getting to open areas, frame pacing just dies and it's impossible to fix.
This game is really fucking good and has insanely good characters written. Likely the best I have experienced. Shame on the performance even though the game is insanely good looking thing.
I'm the opposite. I found the sotry and characters boring. Stayed for the gameplay.
I found the game so boring I struggled to get myself to finish it.
Characters are boring. Clive was so boring and nothing burger.
Spread of an ocean, depth of a lake.
Locking it at 60 with the cutscene mod is chefs kiss
Download the mod. Highly Recommended 👍
What do you mean it doesn’t have RT on console and DF (yourselves) said back then the performance mode had fps drops because RT was on.
5:00 I am pretty sure it's actually a SSD vs NVMe issue. I lost those frame spikes when I was able to cache the game data in to RAM. So maybe those spikes could be removed in the midrange if you were to upgrade the drive that the game is installed on.
Thinking about getting this, but before I do, I will definitely watch the video. I ran the demo quite well, but those 30 FPS locked cut scenes are very noticeable obviously.
No wonder on console it’s so demanding. I will see what patches inevitably arrive but it seems like a solid port
There is a mod to remove the frame limit on them :)
Theres already a mod to remove the cutscene fps cap, it's very simple to install.
@@Morden97I’ve heard as much but that doesn’t look awkward? Regardless I’ll likely have to run FSR3 Native AA and Frame Gen to get 60 FPS locked as I did in the demo.
@@mattmanley7118nothing about it is awkward lol
@@Morden97 The pre-rendered cutscenes are still at 30 fps though, sadly... But if you use Lossless Scaling you can use its framegen to get even those up to 60 fps lol
So basically we need rx8000 series for a 4k60fps ultra setting?
Loved this game on PS5.
You too see ghosting for ps5 ??
They mentioned in this video how you can't get native 4K 60 in this game on ANY GPU. I have DLSS/dynamic scaling turned off, settings at max, set to native 4K with v-sync off. I swear it's hovering around 60. It's hard to tell because of how fast VRR changes but i see it in the 60's a lot plus it "feels" like 60 to me.
What graphics card are you using?
@michaelmichaelagnew8503 the same one the guy said he can't get native 4K 60 on. 4090.
I really wonder how this will run on ps5 pro both fps and resolution wise!
They said that 1440p upscaled from 720p using pssr would be optimal for 60fps
Once you're a little past the demo areas performance tanks A LOT. In the village past the small forest section, I'm getting wildly variant fps from high 50s to 120, just by 360ing the camera, on a 4070 with dlss balanced and frame gen on no DRS. oddly enough my gpu is reading 100% but msi afterburner says it's only pulling 100w (60% power draw) and it's running 10 degrees cooler than normal max load. Weird stuff l.
I remember when it launched on PS5 and people mocked the crappy resolution, saying PS5 wasn't powerful enough, despite Forbidden West looking more detailed and having a solid 1440p60 mode. And now look, the game is a mess on PC too, what a surprise.
And I don't get it... I think even old PS4 Horizon Zero Down is more beautiful than FFXVI. And also Shadow of The Tomb Raider is. This game is not that good looking for its requirements.
A problem with the PS5 Pro is that FF16 changes the level of detail in the two modes, quite a lot, and the performance mode doesn't come close to hitting 60fps.
I was in the kitchen preparing miself some food while listening to this in the background. As I overheard Alex and Oliver chatting about the usual topics-things like 'upscaling,' 'performance mode,' 'screen space reflections,' and so on-I kept catching the phrase '360p' in the mix. At first, I giggled about it, thinking I must have misheard it. I mean, in 2024, on current-gen consoles and PCs, even mentioning such a low resolution is just absurd. Once I stepped out of the kitchen, I realized it was actually true. Honestly, I'm speechless. What's up next? A 240p performance mode 'reasonably' upscaled by PSSRwasser magic tech? Unbelieveable.
I really don't get the logic of it either. They make these games that are horrendously optimised, using as much GPU as possible, everything realtime and it doesn't even look THAT good, especially given the resolution crunch needed to get a playable framerate. I think last gen games at really high res and framerates would look more impressive lol
He intentionally ran the game at 1080p with DLSS Ultra Performance (360p) to find out where the bottlenecks are. It is in no way required to play the game. The unbelievable part is that the PS5 drops the game to 720p to maintain around 50fps.
@@Harry101UK ok .. this is releaving :-) I did not follow the entire video. Just listening on the side
@@cloudycolacorp yes .. if we think about the gains in processing power .. I suppose everyone expected more. The new ray tracing hype and tech like UE 5's "Lumen" of course is also reducing possible complexity in geometry detail as the real time lightning is, combined with high resolutions, eating up all the gained performance .. so it's somewhat more "flashy" but not really a huge increment in overall looks somehow
I'm surprised you guys didn't check out the FSR3 + Frame Gen implementation in the game. FWIW I'm running a 7900 XTX and managed to pull off Native FSR at 1440p ultrawide locked at 60 with frame gen hitting 120fps. I have noticed some halo / ghosting effects from FSR3 however its seems really random? Some scenes with specular highlights trigger it but then when i try to recreate it i can't. Really weird behaviour. Also the FPS running at native without frame gen was all over the place, some scenes were 110fps others like in the castle at the start or the first forest area were high 70s with sudden drops to 60. Frame gen definitely feels really good here and I noticed very little input lag and it appears to be paced well. Interested to see if you have a chance to investigate.
I may be going crazy but I don't see any differences in most settings on PC, especially textures
They are minimal so is the performance
Scalability seems to be pretty poor.
The scalability is so bad which is why it heavily relies on upscalers
literally! I am getting over 75 fps most of the time with an I7 8700K, 3080, 32gb RAM but there are some areas that are giving me around 50 fps no matter what settings I put the game on lol.
I may have no idea what i'm on about but it seems like the stutters near cutscenes/dialogue, it could be loading all the script and loading the npcs in at the same time causing a big lag spike, but if it's coming from the GPU end then that just baffles me
Imagine the day we ll be playing FF16 on integrated graphics at 4K at 120fps no problem...
Does anyone know at what framerate the dynamic resolution kicks in? And is it base ono your mx frame rate? Or is it something like it always kicks in if it dips below 60?
Square is so fucking annoying with pc ports. Its like flipping a coin, you either get a good port, or shit. There never seems to be an in-between.
Square's ports are always awful. It's just some require less tinkering to fix than others. I've had to fix just about every Square port in my library in some fashion except for the PS1 and SNES era games.
At least the game seems to be fairly multi-threaded. Got pretty high CPU usage on my older i9-10900F and RTX3070 rig when playing the demo. Even so this is a technically peculiar game, not just on PC.
Improper optimisation and general software quality, full stop.
I noticed that when i put the camera in the direction of the sky i lose 7~11 fps right there.
WTH Square?
Thank you DF for all the hard work as usual, but I would say I prefer the old format. These newer PC focused videos don't feel like they have the same deep dive into how the games work on the various tiers of hardware that used to be shown.
This channel became very bad. Oliver laughing all the time talking about when the DSR lower the resolution and the bad performances Alex had gave me the creeps. He seemed very snob, elitist and mocking. Most of people don't have his ultra high-end and have to use these technics or play the game on lower graphics. I wish he could be more respectful.
I havent seen hardly any hitches and I have my fram graph running just to make sure, but I am usually very sensitive to stutters. So I turned on my metrics and nope very smooth graph. I have a 4090 with a 13700k. I notice a lot of people complaining of stutter having an AMD cpu and quite a few of those being x3d. Idk, but I am just not getting these stutters some of you have