Bird's fundamentals were impeccable; passing, rebounding, dribbling (for a big man) and scoring. Either hand, rainbows from 3 point land and down low using the glass. Pretty tough to defend all that. Oh, I failed to mention his clutch shots, too.
I agree!! His rainbows are what really gets me. That's a whole different shot and he could pull up ten feet from the basket and arch the shot off the ceiling rafters and make it!
Now that’s what I’m talking about! A winner on both sides of the court! Who else hustles, muscles and finesses you like that? None other than Larry Legend!
I only saw Bird live one time in 92 at an Indiana Pacers game. Bird was playing on a broken back, his ankles shot, barely able to jump. He made one pass that I'll never forget. Bird was half-court, received an outlet pass that was too high, he was in the air as he took the ball in one hand, behind his back, bounce-passed it to an instride Keven gamble 20 feet away for a layup. From start to end of play, he never looked at Gamble, his eyes stayed on the other basket the entire play.
Yeah, I can't see it. This is like watching a magic trick. I wish the video quality was better just so I could figure out what happened with this steal. I watched it slowed down, and I've got nothing.
I know. I watched it at least 20 times and still can't figure it out. looked like he made a ball appear in his hands out of thin air, the steal was THAT quick.
@netcap001 W/E - Went off the top of my head. Bird thoroughly dominated Jordan winning all 14 games in 2 years. That somehow matters? In year 3 when Jordan finally broke the streak, Bird kicked his ass by 30 the next night anyhow. And Bird did play sick in the 83 Semis. You think a 60 win team just suddenly got swept and nothing was amiss? Use your brain. And only a certified Jordan jocker would even try to put Jordan's injuries on par with Bird's injuries.
Anyone who thinks Kobe Bryant is better than Bird knows nothing about basketball...Bird did ALL things well on the floor...There isn't one solitary stat on the board that larry didn't do better than the best that the 21st century has to offer.
Between Moses Malones's goofy goggles, Muggsy Bogues's midgetry, and Manute Bol's general cartoonish-ness, the Bullets made for some great entertainment
@netcap001 Bird played the 1983 series sick (including a 104 fever at one point) cherry picker. Now if Moncrief dominated Bird and beat him 14 times in a row over a 3 or 4 year period you might have a point. But since he didn't, you don't.
@AdreasTheGreat Your making complete sense. I've told this guy such points on many occasions. But just so you know, he's a certified Jordan jocker. He doesn't care about reality.
@AdreasTheGreat lucas was suspended in 1986,he didnt play in the finals(along with three other players). bird didnt face the 1982. the rockets beat the lakers in 1981?for starters, a three game series is hardly anthing to write home about. plus,magic johnson was injured. and you are bringing up the ppg numbers?thank you for clarifying one thing: the celtics were better than the lakers in 1984,considering they had more 11+ ppg scorers. lol
@AdreasTheGreat here is some perspective: oakley was jordans second option in 1987 and 88. oakley was only the 8th leading scorer for the new york knicks in 1992. i'll give you woolridge,but he left after 1986. jordan lost to the pistons in 1988 with a lineup of what...vincent,corzine,oakley,sellers? that is the same team that would have beaten the lakers AND celtics in 1988,if it wasn't for that phantom call on laimbeer that allowed the lakers to win game 6 in the finals.
@AdreasTheGreat uhh..not quite. jordan had injuries in the finals,his injuries are comparable to worthy's ankle sprain. if you are saying scoring-wise,jordan was better in 1988,yes. however,he improved in a lot of other areas. for instance,the 11+ assist average in the 1991 finals. he didnt do that in 1989,despite playing point guard sometimes in the playoffs.
@AdreasTheGreat 31 is not old. funny how you talked about how well sampson played vs the lakers,before playing the celtics:johnson put up an average of 26-10-12 for a series in 1991,before playing the bulls. why is this so difficult to ascertain?johnson put up very good numbers,use the logic that you used to jump to the conclusion that sampson was well in 1986.
@phishhead11 . He could use the left side shooting & dribbling as well his left-hand. At that time, speed was the game. You didn't necessarily have to play tough D because you get the long pass to either hit a three bomb or the old fashioned way with the foul and a shot.
@AdreasTheGreat not quite. the bulls played better defense than any of those teams. hardly any team was playing a lick of D in the west-every team was fastbreaking. the 90s fixed that to a certain degree. as for bryant,he was 29-30-31. a player can still be in his prime at that age. averaged 30 ppg in 2009,2010 playoffs and then fell to 22.8 in 2011 playoffs.
@AdreasTheGreat bryant had the same stats as his last three years?are you joking?bryant averaged 29.2 ppg in the 2010 playoffs,compared to 22.8 in 2011. i want you to compare the playoffs. so a houston team in its prime was a 1-6 combined vs the lakers in 1990 and 1991?incredible again. for starters,olajuwon played his best basketball in 1994 and 1995. he was in his second season in 1986. olajuwon's 1994 season is better than his 1986 season,not to mention his carrying the team.
@AdreasTheGreat pippen had much better teammates in 1994. pippen had 11 players from the two bulls three peat teams:especially grant,kerr,kukoc and vice versa. you said the 90s were not as good. why would pippens supporting cast matter? so johnson with all that mileage still put up better numbers in the 1991 playoffs than he did in 1988,and equal to 1987. also notice that johnson shot 178 free throws in the 1991 playoffs. he never shot that much in the 80s,ever.
@FavreianVengeance They (89cs) had a new coach in Jimmy Rogers as well.Mchale,Parrish,DJ missed over 10 games total and Ainge was traded after 45 games.They still won 42.Bulls on the other hand had its championship starting 5 minus Jordan with the addidtion of Kukoc,Kerr,Longley and Wennington.I think that was the same year Scottie quit on his team.They were 3 time champions prior to that overrated 55 win season without Jordan.
@FavreianVengeance Bird had 7 teammates in double figures in his rookie year.That bitch aint turn shit around.He was lucky to be playing for Red Auerbach was always looking to stack his teams up.
@AdreasTheGreat we've established the point that the number of hall of famers is not a gauge for the quality of teams. oh and for the record, comparing the ppg numbers in the 90s to the 80s does not make sense,considering teams scored much more in the 80s. sampson put up a pathetic 14 ppg on %43 in the 86 finals. if anything,you should admit that the 81 rockets were not good at all-even your stats arguement proves that.
@AdreasTheGreat false. jordan was 5-4 vs magic until the new year of 1990. that isn't almost always losing. at least you have a solid case for larry. i didnt say jordan was better than magic. i wouldnt compare a scoring off guard to a pass first point guard anyway. sure,you can make excuses for the lakers in 1991 because they had no jabbar. but not for magic johnson being out of his prime. that makes no sense.
@AdreasTheGreat jordan played a grand total of 21 games with both woolridge and oakley on the roster. jordan had a horrible team in his early career,nothing else explains the bulls' 21-43 record without him in 1986. oakley was a role player,a good role player but no one gets anywhere with oakley as his second scoring option. sure,oakley was a good rebounder,but he constantly got into foul trouble and could not battle with great front courts at just 6'8".
@netcap001 WTF are you talking about? Sampson wasn't injured. And Murphy dealt with injuries during the series. The 86 Rockets beat the Showtime Lakers 4 out of 5 and 2 of 3 in LA. What more do you want? And I didn't call the 86 Rockets great, mererely that they were better than any Bulls team. Don't call that 'great' P-Brain.
@RohoicRamz94 i dont know what playing weak competition can take away from a teams greatness. if you want to look it that way, the 87 lakers title and the 86 celtics title are as bogus as any of the bulls titles, period.
@AdreasTheGreat I told you the only reason Jordan couldnt beat elite teams in the 80s was because of lack of talent around him.I also told Favrein that Jordan missed half those games during the so called 14 game win streak vs Bulls and that Jordan had a weak team.You just said Magic was not himself which was bullshit and you said he had a weaker team(No Jabbar Cooper)Yet he had Wrthy,Scott,Divacs.If hes such a great team player shouldnt he have made it work to beat Jordan?
@AdreasTheGreat no excuse. johnson was fine in 1991. you are confusing him with worthy. his numbers match up well with quite a few seasons in the 80s. you just disproved yourself with the finals stats anyway. or better yet,what about jordans tendinitis,toe injury or twisted knee from the 91 detroit series?oh,injuries only count as an excuse for larry and magic...lmao
@AdreasTheGreat Have you ever seen MJ play with the talent Bird/Magic played with?No..He won 6 vs evenly matched comp..Its not like the Bulls were stacked like a 80s team playing in the 90s.You agree Jordan is best so you should also agree that Magic/bird getting old or injured had nothing to do with MJ finally winning rings it was just a personnel upgrade and a concept change.90s Bulls team do better than you think vs 80s teams.
@AdreasTheGreat who cares if jordan was better in 1988,he was playing with a starting five that was MUCH less talented. you are saying you watched it with your eyes. i watched him too,and i disagree. that's why i want you to bring some facts to the table. you brought up james having more assists than larry. how is that relevant?for starters,james had the ball all the time,MUCH MORE than larry ever did. we were comparing the very same player's production anyway.
@AdreasTheGreat I'm telling you. Netcap chugs 4J (Jug of Jordan Jocking Juice) daily. He doesn't get how good the 86 Rockets are b/c he sees what he wants to see. But the 86 Rockets would have wiped the floor with any Bulls team.
@RohoicRamz94 You're going to blame 14 losses in a row to anybody on teammates? How about you start making sense? But let me give you some supplementary knowledge. We hear about how great MJ's offense is. The Bulls averaged more points per game 2 years before he got there than at any point during his career. We hear about how great MJ's defense was. The Bulls defensive ppg was 4 points better after he walked away in 93.
@RohoicRamz94 Don't give me that hall of fame hogwash. Kerr was a 55 percent 3 point shooter at one point. Horace Grant did much of what McHale did. Pippen was a great athlete. A guy like BJ Armstrong was comparable to DJ. Kukoc was freaking awesome. Rodam was a HOFer btw making it 3 HOFers anyhow. The Bulls had plenty of right people at the right time. Don't try to whittle it down to HOFer counting b/c you want to make excuses for Jordan getting owned.
@AdreasTheGreat scott was 29 in 1991,but was injured regardless,detroit beat an absolutely hobbled laker team in 1989 and a portland team. here is the major flaw of your logic:why only excuses about the bulls?detroit's titles are just as bogus as the bulls titles according to your logic. you can also make a case for the celtics..
@netcap001 Sampson shot .518 for the entire 86 playoffs and so if he shot 43 percent in the Finals I'd estimate that he shot 55 percent in the Western Conference playoffs. Another fine cherry picking effort on your part though.
@FavreianVengeance Youre verify them for me genius.Dont forget to factor in the games in which Jordan didnt play as well because we all know those losses were his fault as well.Basketball Jesus will save you my child.
@AdreasTheGreat johnson improved his jumpshot later in his career. hence,his taking more three pointers while shooting a decent percentage. i'll ask again. you used stats to refute my claim that sampson wasn't himself in 1986. are you aware that i merely used your OWN logic? im afraid your opinion doesn't hold much weight..the facts disagree.
@FavreianVengeance Jordan never lost to Bird 14 times in a row.The Bulls were 2-4 during the 84-85 regular season vs the Celtics.The 85-86 Bulls didnt have Jordan for the season and the Bulls went 1-5 vs the Celtics.The 86-87 Bulls were even weaker(0-6 vs Boston during regular season) than the previous 2 teams trying to beat a dynasty team with a team who didnt have the right pieces.87-88 Bulls start adding the right peices..they go 3-3 vs Boston that season.I wonder why?
@AdreasTheGreat fail. does not matter. here is a taste of your medicine: trying to denigrate teams by questioning their competition,the boston titles are just as bogus as the bulls titles. boston either ducked or lost to the best teams in the 80s- the records agree with me. detroit,lakers,sixers...all of them. with all that competition,you would think boston would have beaten more than one 60+ win team.
@:41 oh tommy, always the optimist? Spoiler alert. 88 celtics are the best team in NBA history on paper who had the worst bench ever. It was atleast the worst bench of any of Birds teams. FYI: The savior wasnt dirk miniefield
@AdreasTheGreat give me something tangible suggesting that magic johnson was so much worse in 1991,as you claimed. you used stats and ppg numbers for many teams-86 rockets,early 80s sixers and vice versa...but now you are ignoring them becuase they don't support your arguement. how convenient. you have no factual basis. if johnson had scored more while being less efficient,you would have a point. he scored more points on less shot attempts than he did in 1987. got it?
@FavreianVengeance this is like the 5th time you've posted misinformation. i know larry's testicles on your tonsils makes it very difficult for you to see BUT- olajuwon averaged 27.3 in 1994,compared to 23.5. in 1986. olajuwon shot .528% in 1994,compared to .526% in 86. 3.6 assists,compared to 2.0 in 86. averaged 3.7 blocks in 1994,compared to 3.7...and you are saying they were more than double in 1986??lmao i stand corrected. olajuwon had a better season in 1994.
Bird was always in great shape. He ran before games, shot a hundred or so shots and then worked his ass off to get into position for the game shots. Constant movement.
Not only did he have quick hands and the strength to hold on to rebounds, he had the best court vision and the quickest mind in basketball. We will never see another player with his superb skill set. His long range shooting, ambidexterity, desire to win, dive for loose balls, block shots, run the floor and insane passes made him the best ever.
It really is amazing. Bird was tremendous. By this time in January 1988 back problems had started but he just went out there and always gave 100 percent. No matter what. No excuses.
The hand eye coordination, quickness and anticipation, just insane. I could only imagine how hard it was to guard him. I remember DJ throwing incredibly fast passes to him, just a, mili-second of daylight, before the defense could even turn around, the ball was already banked off the glass and in, all with Bird not even glancing at the goal.
Larry,unless he was terribly off and or his back,could score 50 a night if he wanted to.l used to think jordan was a a little bit better than bird ,not after watching him more closely
king fouled bird intentional towards the end but that is a no win situation cause bird aint gonna miss free throws. bird was the best all around baller . and look at all these shots. all from the perimeter. amazing he shot 50% from the field in his career taking perimeter shots most of the time.
@netcap001 You've used Bird's HOF teammates as an excuse for why Bird would sweep Jordan twice. Jordan had 5 losing seasons in 5 tries w/o Pippen. He's not the GOAT by any stretch. And the Bulls are nowhere near the greatest team.
@AdreasTheGreat Heres what Magic thought about Pippen.. "Take me away from the Lakers and we still have weapons,Take Jordan away from the Bulls and they have NOTHING"...Magic called Pippen nothing in comparison to his teammates on the Lakers.Pippen is overrated.
@netcap001 You're going to say I failed while downgrading the C's defeat of the 84 Lakers? LMAO. Dude the 84 Lakers would have swept every Bulls team and done it while winning every game in double digits.
@RohoicRamz94 I don't know about that. The 89 C's w/o Bird and w/Reggie Lewis elevating his game won 42. Maybe they could've won 50 in any given year. But there's still a huge difference between your run of the mill 50 win team and great teams.
@FavreianVengeance he didnt average more rebounds. he didnt shoot a higher percentage. taking more shots and shooting the same % means he was better. i i was replying to someone who said olajuwon was in his absolute prime in 1986,which isnt true. also take a look at his turnovers compared to assists- he had more turnovers than assists in 1986. he had a better season in 94. he wasnt that better,but still better.
All great points One time ML Carr said 90-91 was Birds best season ever and if you think about it he may be onto something. Remember Bird played his last 5 years with crippling injuries that made him about 3/4 the player he was his first 7 years and he was still in 88 he was an MVP cindidate and in the other 3/4 years he was years he was an all star quality player. Hes under rated in that regaurd
@AdreasTheGreat you are saying johnson had to carry the offensive load in 1991. had johnson scored more points,you would be right but johnson had more points on less shot attempts than in 1987. that equals superior efficiency,and dismantles your arguement. not one playoff series-two. you are talking about bryants regular season numbers. i was talking about magic johnsons playoff numbers,not RS. bryant had a significant drop in 2011 compared to 2010 playoffs..
@AdreasTheGreat not quite. bryant struggled in the 2011 playoffs compared to 2010. SEVEN less ppg. roughly half the rebounds and assists. i was comparing the playoffs,not the regular season averages. magic johnson in 1991 playoffs had more points than less shot attempts in 1987 playoffs. that is superior efficiency. also averaged .4 more rebounds and assists. this is more than enough. at least you have a solid case for bird. you have no point whatsoever with johnson.
@AdreasTheGreat dude,why is this so difficult to ascertain for you?but something first,how much do you love magic johnson?you seem to be more upset about it than he ever was-lol! today's players aren't relevant. i have no problem with you saying larry's injuries being more severe. but johnson??lmao. johnson has enjoyed good health for the vast majority of his career,until contracting HIV. help me understand-please,how were johnson's injuries SO bad?
@AdreasTheGreat again,you are grasping at straws to find an excuse for lakers losing. why didn't you give any for bulls losing to detroit in 1988?didn't they have rookie pippen and grant that year?or what were you smoking when you said the bulls were the better team than the pistons in all of their playoff matchups. you can give excuses all you want. but you just cant give injury excuses to one side and ignore them for the other. that makes you look hypocritical.
@FavreianVengeance you compare sampson in 1985 to what he did in 1987 instead of looking into 1986,and you are saying im a cherry picker lol. sampsons numbers in 1985 earned him an elimination by a .500 team. i wouldnt bring up jordan missing 64 games if you hadnt made an excuse-larry had a temperature,wahh- while still penalizing jordan for his teams being under .500 and ignoring jordans broken foot in 86 or torn knee cartilage as a wizard.
@AdreasTheGreat as response to your last point, i can make the case that celtics didnt face those teams at their absolute primes,and back it up with records. jabbar was FORTY-TWO,compared to 31 for magic johnson in 1991. that is a shallow comparison,and makes no sense. we both now it is not the same. i dont like hypothetical matchups. regardless,your excuse for magic johnson in 1991 doesnt make sense.
@AdreasTheGreat i can give you a breakdown and a comparison of johnsons 1991 playoff stats with other seasons,but this statistic should shut down any talk of johnson being out of prime in 1991 magic johnson in 1987 playoffs=took 271 shots,scored 392 points magic johnson in 1991 playoffs: took 268 shots,scored 411 points. yep..thats correct this should dismantle any talk of johnson being old or injured. im a huge fan of his,but your point was farce.
@AdreasTheGreat i didnt say that injures were not an excuse. i used your arguement aganist you. detroit did not have a serious injury in 1989. i'll give you 88 though. scott didnt play at all,and johnson played 25 minutes a game,ONLY averaging 25 minutes. allow me to be more succint: magic johnsons numbers in 1991 match up well with his numbers in a lot of his seasons in the 80s. example:averaging 9 free throws a game. jabbar wasnt making that much of an impact at age 42.
@AdreasTheGreat lmao! what????!?!? im not a lakers fan or something but you cant be serious! do you seriously think LA was defeated by detroit in 1989 with both teams at their full strength??the lakers were missing their entire backcourt in 1989,yet you are using this defeat to make a point that the lakers were slowing down?that made absolutely no sense,you grasp at straws to find an excuse for johnson losing when in 1991,but none for 1989??stop being such a hypocrite,please..
@FavreianVengeance hilarious how you talked about how there was something obviously wrong with the celtics in 1983. the 47 win nuggets won 2 games vs the 86 rockets,so there must have been something wrong with the lakers that year. just because a team matched up well with another team does not mean they were so great. dummy. yeah thats right,nobody should give a damn about losing to 41 and 39 win teams. lol@ the excuse for sampson in 1987 playoffs. 18.6 ppg on .514%.
@AdreasTheGreat regardless,when you are making a case that johnson was so much worse in 1991,you have back it up with something. you have no factual basis for your claim. funny how that slower johnson was able to set his career playoff high for total free throws. all the facts point to johnson being very close to the 80s-and even better than some of his seasons. this is the same logic you used to prop up the 86 rockets.
@AdreasTheGreat what is your point? you used sampsons numbers to make a point that he was healthy in 1986. why are you digressing away now that i made the exact same case for magic johnson? whatever they say,johnson,erving or bird are not always right. bird agrees with me that jordan had a horrible team in his career. johnson thinks jordan is the greatest of all time. watch?v=N6og_pOVi2w - listen to isiah thomas talking after 1:30.
@FavreianVengeance lol its mind boggling how you are grasping in vain trying to prop up your god. no excuses,just a fact that the best team larry beat in the finals had a 54-28 record,and it took him seven games. once again,that "depth" in their roster earned them a 51-31 record. hmm. here is what the rockets did the year before and after:the legendary rockets lose to two sub. 500 teams!
@AdreasTheGreat Bulls winning 55 games without Jordan means nothing.Scottie finishing second means nothing.If you dont win the title the season is a failure.Bad calls happen in sports has the NBA always had suspect calls?Yes.Even Bird thought Stern was always up to his tricks even back in the 84 series.Celtics without Bird and Lakers without Magic all have the talent to win 50 games in a season.
@AdreasTheGreat three rockets players were suspended for drug abuse. houstons record in 1995 does not matter,considering drexler played a grand total of 35 games. the records matter. if those rockets were so great,they would have done a bit better than 51 wins. i would understand if they had gone 51-31 in the eastern conference. did i mention that jordan won 50 in '88 with rookie scottie pippen and grant?sampson played like trash in the finals except game 3.
LARRY BIRD WAS THE BEST ALL-AROUND PLAYER IN NBA HISTORY.
Bird falling after that layup where he clearly hurt his back and then goes down the other end and steals the ball.Simply an amazing player.
Bird's fundamentals were impeccable; passing, rebounding, dribbling (for a big man) and scoring. Either hand, rainbows from 3 point land and down low using the glass. Pretty tough to defend all that. Oh, I failed to mention his clutch shots, too.
I agree!! His rainbows are what really gets me. That's a whole different shot and he could pull up ten feet from the basket and arch the shot off the ceiling rafters and make it!
🐐
Now that’s what I’m talking about! A winner on both sides of the court! Who else hustles, muscles and finesses you like that? None other than Larry Legend!
I only saw Bird live one time in 92 at an Indiana Pacers game. Bird was playing on a broken back, his ankles shot, barely able to jump. He made one pass that I'll never forget. Bird was half-court, received an outlet pass that was too high, he was in the air as he took the ball in one hand, behind his back, bounce-passed it to an instride Keven gamble 20 feet away for a layup. From start to end of play, he never looked at Gamble, his eyes stayed on the other basket the entire play.
Very cool! One of my regrets is I never got to see him play in person.
WTF! I keep replaying this clip, but I still can't see how the hell Bird took that ball from Moses. The quickest hands in basketball history: 0:15
I had to slow the replay down and still not sure how that happened !
He swiped at it cat quick with his left hand. Knocked it down and grabbed it.
Unreal
Yeah, I can't see it. This is like watching a magic trick. I wish the video quality was better just so I could figure out what happened with this steal. I watched it slowed down, and I've got nothing.
"Even when he's hurt, he's better than everybody else on the floor." Yeah, that's a great quote about the best to ever lace 'em up. :)
And so true.
I know. I watched it at least 20 times and still can't figure it out. looked like he made a ball appear in his hands out of thin air, the steal was THAT quick.
Bernard King gave Jordan fits. Bird did wtf he wanted. James worthy even said he would much rather guard MJ than Larry.
Larry Bird was the best all-around player in NBA history.
@netcap001 W/E - Went off the top of my head. Bird thoroughly dominated Jordan winning all 14 games in 2 years. That somehow matters? In year 3 when Jordan finally broke the streak, Bird kicked his ass by 30 the next night anyhow. And Bird did play sick in the 83 Semis. You think a 60 win team just suddenly got swept and nothing was amiss? Use your brain. And only a certified Jordan jocker would even try to put Jordan's injuries on par with Bird's injuries.
so in athletic yet so good phenomenal
THE GOAT!
Anyone who thinks Kobe Bryant is better than Bird knows nothing about basketball...Bird did ALL things well on the floor...There isn't one solitary stat on the board that larry didn't do better than the best that the 21st century has to offer.
Larry Legend
Between Moses Malones's goofy goggles, Muggsy Bogues's midgetry, and Manute Bol's general cartoonish-ness, the Bullets made for some great entertainment
@netcap001 Bird played the 1983 series sick (including a 104 fever at one point) cherry picker. Now if Moncrief dominated Bird and beat him 14 times in a row over a 3 or 4 year period you might have a point. But since he didn't, you don't.
@RohoicRamz94 There's a huge difference between winning a championship and winning a game ONCE IN A WHILE. Bird owned Jordan.
Preach!
@AdreasTheGreat Your making complete sense. I've told this guy such points on many occasions. But just so you know, he's a certified Jordan jocker. He doesn't care about reality.
@AdreasTheGreat lucas was suspended in 1986,he didnt play in the finals(along with three other players). bird didnt face the 1982. the rockets beat the lakers in 1981?for starters, a three game series is hardly anthing to write home about. plus,magic johnson was injured. and you are bringing up the ppg numbers?thank you for clarifying one thing: the celtics were better than the lakers in 1984,considering they had more 11+ ppg scorers. lol
@AdreasTheGreat here is some perspective: oakley was jordans second option in 1987 and 88. oakley was only the 8th leading scorer for the new york knicks in 1992.
i'll give you woolridge,but he left after 1986. jordan lost to the pistons in 1988 with a lineup of what...vincent,corzine,oakley,sellers? that is the same team that would have beaten the lakers AND celtics in 1988,if it wasn't for that phantom call on laimbeer that allowed the lakers to win game 6 in the finals.
@AdreasTheGreat uhh..not quite. jordan had injuries in the finals,his injuries are comparable to worthy's ankle sprain.
if you are saying scoring-wise,jordan was better in 1988,yes. however,he improved in a lot of other areas. for instance,the 11+ assist average in the 1991 finals. he didnt do that in 1989,despite playing point guard sometimes in the playoffs.
@AdreasTheGreat 31 is not old. funny how you talked about how well sampson played vs the lakers,before playing the celtics:johnson put up an average of 26-10-12 for a series in 1991,before playing the bulls. why is this so difficult to ascertain?johnson put up very good numbers,use the logic that you used to jump to the conclusion that sampson was well in 1986.
4:29 Didn't the guy inbounding the ball bounce it over the OB line before passing it in? And they complained that Bird got all the calls...
Yes he did
@phishhead11 . He could use the left side shooting & dribbling as well his left-hand. At that time, speed was the game. You didn't necessarily have to play tough D because you get the long pass to either hit a three bomb or the old fashioned way with the foul and a shot.
@AdreasTheGreat not quite. the bulls played better defense than any of those teams. hardly any team was playing a lick of D in the west-every team was fastbreaking. the 90s fixed that to a certain degree.
as for bryant,he was 29-30-31. a player can still be in his prime at that age. averaged 30 ppg in 2009,2010 playoffs and then fell to 22.8 in 2011 playoffs.
@AdreasTheGreat bryant had the same stats as his last three years?are you joking?bryant averaged 29.2 ppg in the 2010 playoffs,compared to 22.8 in 2011. i want you to compare the playoffs. so a houston team in its prime was a 1-6 combined vs the lakers in 1990 and 1991?incredible again.
for starters,olajuwon played his best basketball in 1994 and 1995. he was in his second season in 1986. olajuwon's 1994 season is better than his 1986 season,not to mention his carrying the team.
@AdreasTheGreat pippen had much better teammates in 1994. pippen had 11 players from the two bulls three peat teams:especially grant,kerr,kukoc and vice versa. you said the 90s were not as good. why would pippens supporting cast matter?
so johnson with all that mileage still put up better numbers in the 1991 playoffs than he did in 1988,and equal to 1987. also notice that johnson shot 178 free throws in the 1991 playoffs. he never shot that much in the 80s,ever.
@FavreianVengeance They (89cs) had a new coach in Jimmy Rogers as well.Mchale,Parrish,DJ missed over 10 games total and Ainge was traded after 45 games.They still won 42.Bulls on the other hand had its championship starting 5 minus Jordan with the addidtion of Kukoc,Kerr,Longley and Wennington.I think that was the same year Scottie quit on his team.They were 3 time champions prior to that overrated 55 win season without Jordan.
@FavreianVengeance Bird had 7 teammates in double figures in his rookie year.That bitch aint turn shit around.He was lucky to be playing for Red Auerbach was always looking to stack his teams up.
I'm guessing this was the 87-88 season. Two years earlier and the Celtics win the game by 25-30 points.
@AdreasTheGreat we've established the point that the number of hall of famers is not a gauge for the quality of teams. oh and for the record, comparing the ppg numbers in the 90s to the 80s does not make sense,considering teams scored much more in the 80s.
sampson put up a pathetic 14 ppg on %43 in the 86 finals. if anything,you should admit that the 81 rockets were not good at all-even your stats arguement proves that.
@netcap001 *blocks:3.7 blocked shots,compared to 3.4 in 86.
@AdreasTheGreat false. jordan was 5-4 vs magic until the new year of 1990. that isn't almost always losing. at least you have a solid case for larry.
i didnt say jordan was better than magic. i wouldnt compare a scoring off guard to a pass first point guard anyway. sure,you can make excuses for the lakers in 1991 because they had no jabbar. but not for magic johnson being out of his prime. that makes no sense.
@AdreasTheGreat jordan played a grand total of 21 games with both woolridge and oakley on the roster. jordan had a horrible team in his early career,nothing else explains the bulls' 21-43 record without him in 1986. oakley was a role player,a good role player but no one gets anywhere with oakley as his second scoring option. sure,oakley was a good rebounder,but he constantly got into foul trouble and could not battle with great front courts at just 6'8".
@netcap001 WTF are you talking about? Sampson wasn't injured. And Murphy dealt with injuries during the series. The 86 Rockets beat the Showtime Lakers 4 out of 5 and 2 of 3 in LA. What more do you want? And I didn't call the 86 Rockets great, mererely that they were better than any Bulls team. Don't call that 'great' P-Brain.
@RohoicRamz94 i dont know what playing weak competition can take away from a teams greatness. if you want to look it that way, the 87 lakers title and the 86 celtics title are as bogus as any of the bulls titles, period.
@MerkinMuffly he didnt steal it exaclty it hit off on moses body and ended up in his hands
@AdreasTheGreat I told you the only reason Jordan couldnt beat elite teams in the 80s was because of lack of talent around him.I also told Favrein that Jordan missed half those games during the so called 14 game win streak vs Bulls and that Jordan had a weak team.You just said Magic was not himself which was bullshit and you said he had a weaker team(No Jabbar Cooper)Yet he had Wrthy,Scott,Divacs.If hes such a great team player shouldnt he have made it work to beat Jordan?
@AdreasTheGreat no excuse. johnson was fine in 1991. you are confusing him with worthy. his numbers match up well with quite a few seasons in the 80s. you just disproved yourself with the finals stats anyway.
or better yet,what about jordans tendinitis,toe injury or twisted knee from the 91 detroit series?oh,injuries only count as an excuse for larry and magic...lmao
@AdreasTheGreat UNC 84 So numbers dont matter?
@AdreasTheGreat Have you ever seen MJ play with the talent Bird/Magic played with?No..He won 6 vs evenly matched comp..Its not like the Bulls were stacked like a 80s team playing in the 90s.You agree Jordan is best so you should also agree that Magic/bird getting old or injured had nothing to do with MJ finally winning rings it was just a personnel upgrade and a concept change.90s Bulls team do better than you think vs 80s teams.
@AdreasTheGreat who cares if jordan was better in 1988,he was playing with a starting five that was MUCH less talented.
you are saying you watched it with your eyes. i watched him too,and i disagree. that's why i want you to bring some facts to the table.
you brought up james having more assists than larry. how is that relevant?for starters,james had the ball all the time,MUCH MORE than larry ever did. we were comparing the very same player's production anyway.
Bird spelled backwards is drib (ble)
so theres one small as guy on the bullets. and theres there some giagantor tall thin guy
@AdreasTheGreat I'm telling you. Netcap chugs 4J (Jug of Jordan Jocking Juice) daily. He doesn't get how good the 86 Rockets are b/c he sees what he wants to see. But the 86 Rockets would have wiped the floor with any Bulls team.
@RohoicRamz94 You're going to blame 14 losses in a row to anybody on teammates? How about you start making sense? But let me give you some supplementary knowledge. We hear about how great MJ's offense is. The Bulls averaged more points per game 2 years before he got there than at any point during his career. We hear about how great MJ's defense was. The Bulls defensive ppg was 4 points better after he walked away in 93.
@RohoicRamz94 Don't give me that hall of fame hogwash. Kerr was a 55 percent 3 point shooter at one point. Horace Grant did much of what McHale did. Pippen was a great athlete. A guy like BJ Armstrong was comparable to DJ. Kukoc was freaking awesome. Rodam was a HOFer btw making it 3 HOFers anyhow. The Bulls had plenty of right people at the right time. Don't try to whittle it down to HOFer counting b/c you want to make excuses for Jordan getting owned.
@FavreianVengeance
@AdreasTheGreat scott was 29 in 1991,but was injured
regardless,detroit beat an absolutely hobbled laker team in 1989 and a portland team. here is the major flaw of your logic:why only excuses about the bulls?detroit's titles are just as bogus as the bulls titles according to your logic. you can also make a case for the celtics..
@netcap001 LOL at your torn knee cartialage. There's probably not a player in the NBA over 25 that doesn't have torn cartilage.
@FavreianVengeance I didnt say you were lying I said verify them adolph!
@netcap001 Sampson shot .518 for the entire 86 playoffs and so if he shot 43 percent in the Finals I'd estimate that he shot 55 percent in the Western Conference playoffs. Another fine cherry picking effort on your part though.
@FavreianVengeance Youre verify them for me genius.Dont forget to factor in the games in which Jordan didnt play as well because we all know those losses were his fault as well.Basketball Jesus will save you my child.
@AdreasTheGreat johnson improved his jumpshot later in his career. hence,his taking more three pointers while shooting a decent percentage. i'll ask again. you used stats to refute my claim that sampson wasn't himself in 1986. are you aware that i merely used your OWN logic?
im afraid your opinion doesn't hold much weight..the facts disagree.
@AdreasTheGreat I dont think you know what youre saying.
@FavreianVengeance Jordan never lost to Bird 14 times in a row.The Bulls were 2-4 during the 84-85 regular season vs the Celtics.The 85-86 Bulls didnt have Jordan for the season and the Bulls went 1-5 vs the Celtics.The 86-87 Bulls were even weaker(0-6 vs Boston during regular season) than the previous 2 teams trying to beat a dynasty team with a team who didnt have the right pieces.87-88 Bulls start adding the right peices..they go 3-3 vs Boston that season.I wonder why?
@AdreasTheGreat fail. does not matter. here is a taste of your medicine: trying to denigrate teams by questioning their competition,the boston titles are just as bogus as the bulls titles. boston either ducked or lost to the best teams in the 80s- the records agree with me. detroit,lakers,sixers...all of them. with all that competition,you would think boston would have beaten more than one 60+ win team.
@netcap001 Lmao Magic MVP in 89-90..Jordan won his first title in 90-91 these guys dont know shit about shit.
@FavreianVengeance READ BIRDS BOOK HE SAID THE REASON WHY HIS CELTICS BEAT JORDANS BULLS WAS BECAUSE JORDAN HAD NO TEAM!!!!READ A FUCKIN BOOK!
@:41 oh tommy, always the optimist? Spoiler alert. 88 celtics are the best team in NBA history on paper who had the worst bench ever. It was atleast the worst bench of any of Birds teams. FYI: The savior wasnt dirk miniefield
@AdreasTheGreat give me something tangible suggesting that magic johnson was so much worse in 1991,as you claimed. you used stats and ppg numbers for many teams-86 rockets,early 80s sixers and vice versa...but now you are ignoring them becuase they don't support your arguement. how convenient. you have no factual basis.
if johnson had scored more while being less efficient,you would have a point. he scored more points on less shot attempts than he did in 1987. got it?
@FavreianVengeance this is like the 5th time you've posted misinformation.
i know larry's testicles on your tonsils makes it very difficult for you to see BUT- olajuwon averaged 27.3 in 1994,compared to 23.5. in 1986.
olajuwon shot .528% in 1994,compared to .526% in 86.
3.6 assists,compared to 2.0 in 86.
averaged 3.7 blocks in 1994,compared to 3.7...and you are saying they were more than double in 1986??lmao
i stand corrected. olajuwon had a better season in 1994.
Lol everyone sitting clapping. World has changed
@RohoicRamz94 Jordan's not better than Bird. Bird swept Jordan twice.
Bird was always in great shape. He ran before games, shot a hundred or so shots and then worked his ass off to get into position for the game shots. Constant movement.
Not only did he have quick hands and the strength to hold on to rebounds, he had the best court vision and the quickest mind in basketball. We will never see another player with his superb skill set. His long range shooting, ambidexterity, desire to win, dive for loose balls, block shots, run the floor and insane passes made him the best ever.
It really is amazing. Bird was tremendous. By this time in January 1988 back problems had started but he just went out there and always gave 100 percent. No matter what. No excuses.
And his Achilles on both feet. In 1989, he had the double bone spur/Achilles surgery.
The hand eye coordination, quickness and anticipation, just insane. I could only imagine how hard it was to guard him. I remember DJ throwing incredibly fast passes to him, just a, mili-second of daylight, before the defense could even turn around, the ball was already banked off the glass and in, all with Bird not even glancing at the goal.
Larry,unless he was terribly off and or his back,could score 50 a night if he wanted to.l used to think jordan was a a little bit better than bird ,not after watching him more closely
@5:15 that's why he's a Legend..
Woolridge is one of the biggest wastes of talent in memory. Too bad, too, cause he could play.
The play where Bird makes the basket, gets up slowly then steals the ball classic bird
king fouled bird intentional towards the end but that is a no win situation cause bird aint gonna miss free throws. bird was the best all around baller . and look at all these shots. all from the perimeter. amazing he shot 50% from the field in his career taking perimeter shots most of the time.
@netcap001 You've used Bird's HOF teammates as an excuse for why Bird would sweep Jordan twice. Jordan had 5 losing seasons in 5 tries w/o Pippen. He's not the GOAT by any stretch. And the Bulls are nowhere near the greatest team.
@AdreasTheGreat Heres what Magic thought about Pippen..
"Take me away from the Lakers and we still have weapons,Take Jordan away from the Bulls and they have NOTHING"...Magic called Pippen nothing in comparison to his teammates on the Lakers.Pippen is overrated.
@netcap001 You're going to say I failed while downgrading the C's defeat of the 84 Lakers? LMAO. Dude the 84 Lakers would have swept every Bulls team and done it while winning every game in double digits.
@4:46 Bird goes down hard against base of hoop - comes back slow and steals the ball -
He surprised everyone - including his teammates, I think 😁
King is one of those players I wish had stayed healthy and avoided injury. He was a baller with a sweet shot and could light it up.
@RohoicRamz94 I don't know about that. The 89 C's w/o Bird and w/Reggie Lewis elevating his game won 42. Maybe they could've won 50 in any given year. But there's still a huge difference between your run of the mill 50 win team and great teams.
@FavreianVengeance he didnt average more rebounds. he didnt shoot a higher percentage. taking more shots and shooting the same % means he was better. i
i was replying to someone who said olajuwon was in his absolute prime in 1986,which isnt true. also take a look at his turnovers compared to assists- he had more turnovers than assists in 1986. he had a better season in 94. he wasnt that better,but still better.
The 80s were a great time. Even with basketball 🏀 !
And he didn't even worry about making a cheap basket to score 50 points.
All great points
One time ML Carr said 90-91 was Birds best season ever and if you think about it he may be onto something. Remember Bird played his last 5 years with crippling injuries that made him about 3/4 the player he was his first 7 years and he was still in 88 he was an MVP cindidate and in the other 3/4 years he was years he was an all star quality player.
Hes under rated in that regaurd
Bird adapted. I think it was one of his strengths from the beginning to the end of his career. Turning what could be a negative into a positive.
There have been better scorers. There have been better athletes. But there has never been a better basketball player.
Larry Bird was the best basketball player in NBA history.
Agreed.
The true an ubique goat , larry jor legend Bird!👍👍👍👍
At this point Moses had only a small fraction of the will and fire that he once had.
@AdreasTheGreat
you are saying johnson had to carry the offensive load in 1991. had johnson scored more points,you would be right but johnson had more points on less shot attempts than in 1987. that equals superior efficiency,and dismantles your arguement.
not one playoff series-two. you are talking about bryants regular season numbers. i was talking about magic johnsons playoff numbers,not RS.
bryant had a significant drop in 2011 compared to 2010 playoffs..
@AdreasTheGreat not quite. bryant struggled in the 2011 playoffs compared to 2010. SEVEN less ppg. roughly half the rebounds and assists. i was comparing the playoffs,not the regular season averages.
magic johnson in 1991 playoffs had more points than less shot attempts in 1987 playoffs. that is superior efficiency. also averaged .4 more rebounds and assists. this is more than enough. at least you have a solid case for bird. you have no point whatsoever with johnson.
@AdreasTheGreat dude,why is this so difficult to ascertain for you?but something first,how much do you love magic johnson?you seem to be more upset about it than he ever was-lol!
today's players aren't relevant. i have no problem with you saying larry's injuries being more severe. but johnson??lmao. johnson has enjoyed good health for the vast majority of his career,until contracting HIV. help me understand-please,how were johnson's injuries SO bad?
@AdreasTheGreat again,you are grasping at straws to find an excuse for lakers losing.
why didn't you give any for bulls losing to detroit in 1988?didn't they have rookie pippen and grant that year?or what were you smoking when you said the bulls were the better team than the pistons in all of their playoff matchups.
you can give excuses all you want. but you just cant give injury excuses to one side and ignore them for the other. that makes you look hypocritical.
@FavreianVengeance you compare sampson in 1985 to what he did in 1987 instead of looking into 1986,and you are saying im a cherry picker lol. sampsons numbers in 1985 earned him an elimination by a .500 team.
i wouldnt bring up jordan missing 64 games if you hadnt made an excuse-larry had a temperature,wahh- while still penalizing jordan for his teams being under .500 and ignoring jordans broken foot in 86 or torn knee cartilage as a wizard.
@AdreasTheGreat as response to your last point, i can make the case that celtics didnt face those teams at their absolute primes,and back it up with records.
jabbar was FORTY-TWO,compared to 31 for magic johnson in 1991. that is a shallow comparison,and makes no sense. we both now it is not the same.
i dont like hypothetical matchups. regardless,your excuse for magic johnson in 1991 doesnt make sense.
@AdreasTheGreat i can give you a breakdown and a comparison of johnsons 1991 playoff stats with other seasons,but this statistic should shut down any talk of johnson being out of prime in 1991
magic johnson in 1987 playoffs=took 271 shots,scored 392 points
magic johnson in 1991 playoffs: took 268 shots,scored 411 points. yep..thats correct
this should dismantle any talk of johnson being old or injured. im a huge fan of his,but your point was farce.
@AdreasTheGreat i didnt say that injures were not an excuse. i used your arguement aganist you. detroit did not have a serious injury in 1989. i'll give you 88 though. scott didnt play at all,and johnson played 25 minutes a game,ONLY averaging 25 minutes.
allow me to be more succint: magic johnsons numbers in 1991 match up well with his numbers in a lot of his seasons in the 80s. example:averaging 9 free throws a game. jabbar wasnt making that much of an impact at age 42.
@AdreasTheGreat lmao! what????!?!? im not a lakers fan or something but you cant be serious! do you seriously think LA was defeated by detroit in 1989 with both teams at their full strength??the lakers were missing their entire backcourt in 1989,yet you are using this defeat to make a point that the lakers were slowing down?that made absolutely no sense,you grasp at straws to find an excuse for johnson losing when in 1991,but none for 1989??stop being such a hypocrite,please..
@FavreianVengeance hilarious how you talked about how there was something obviously wrong with the celtics in 1983. the 47 win nuggets won 2 games vs the 86 rockets,so there must have been something wrong with the lakers that year. just because a team matched up well with another team does not mean they were so great. dummy.
yeah thats right,nobody should give a damn about losing to 41 and 39 win teams.
lol@ the excuse for sampson in 1987 playoffs. 18.6 ppg on .514%.
@AdreasTheGreat regardless,when you are making a case that johnson was so much worse in 1991,you have back it up with something. you have no factual basis for your claim. funny how that slower johnson was able to set his career playoff high for total free throws. all the facts point to johnson being very close to the 80s-and even better than some of his seasons. this is the same logic you used to prop up the 86 rockets.
@AdreasTheGreat what is your point?
you used sampsons numbers to make a point that he was healthy in 1986. why are you digressing away now that i made the exact same case for magic johnson?
whatever they say,johnson,erving or bird are not always right. bird agrees with me that jordan had a horrible team in his career. johnson thinks jordan is the greatest of all time.
watch?v=N6og_pOVi2w - listen to isiah thomas talking after 1:30.
@FavreianVengeance lol its mind boggling how you are grasping in vain trying to prop up your god. no excuses,just a fact that the best team larry beat in the finals had a 54-28 record,and it took him seven games. once again,that "depth" in their roster earned them a 51-31 record. hmm. here is what the rockets did the year before and after:the legendary rockets lose to two sub. 500 teams!
@AdreasTheGreat Bulls winning 55 games without Jordan means nothing.Scottie finishing second means nothing.If you dont win the title the season is a failure.Bad calls happen in sports has the NBA always had suspect calls?Yes.Even Bird thought Stern was always up to his tricks even back in the 84 series.Celtics without Bird and Lakers without Magic all have the talent to win 50 games in a season.
@AdreasTheGreat three rockets players were suspended for drug abuse. houstons record in 1995 does not matter,considering drexler played a grand total of 35 games. the records matter. if those rockets were so great,they would have done a bit better than 51 wins. i would understand if they had gone 51-31 in the eastern conference. did i mention that jordan won 50 in '88 with rookie scottie pippen and grant?sampson played like trash in the finals except game 3.