paulw7uk 2226 v 2104 Memo_SHT rapid chess, green dot, lichess.
Вставка
- Опубліковано 7 чер 2024
- paulw7uk chess. this is 10-min rapid chess on lichess.org.
#lichess #rapidchess
game: lichess.org/lh0GUuqY/black
the post game engine review says we were essentially level the entire game until opponent blundered a rook and resigned, however there was 1 move a few moves earlier where we missed the tactical resource q-b6, which would defelect the white queen from guarding the knight.
however our opponent was disconnecting and reconnecting to the game, we count 54 times. as the game was played on lichess it is up to lichess to determine fair play issues.
0:00 game start
0:07 dot
0:09 dot
0:12 dot
0:18 dot
0:20 dot
0:24 dot
0:25 dot
0:28 dot
0:38 dot (internet connect indicator low)
0:57 dot
1:04 dot
1:10 dot
1:12 dot
1:21 dot
1:27 dot
1:39 dot
2:34 dot
2:40 dot
2:46 dot
2:49 dot
2:52 dot
2:55 dot
2:58 dot
3:22 dot
3:25 dot
3:28 dot
3:31 dot
3:49 dot
3:53 dot
4:29 dot
4:38 dot
4:40 dot
4:59 dot
5:01 dot
5:07 dot
5:14 dot
5:17 dot
5:20 dot
5:23 dot
5:32 dot
5:44 dot
5:50 dot
5:53 dot
6:30 dot
6:56 dot
6:59 dot
7:08 dot
7:14 dot
7:29 dot
7:31 dot
7:35 dot
7:39 dot
7:50 dot
8:00 dot
8:07 post game review - Ігри
Why is constant disconnections suspicion for cheating? Is it common for togglers to disconnect a bunch?
not this specific game, but any game generally - 99% of the games i play on lichess the green dot stays green all the time, so when it doesn't it stands out, so really comes down iniitally to common sense, why does it happen? on some occasions it will be legit and no cheating at all, could be genuine internet connection issue, someone could have a tab open with youtube on and want to select background music now and again - but with the very big issue with online cheating now, (chess.com just announced they banned over 1-million accounts in 2023 and they are only the ones they caught) any form of disconnecting / reconnecting could be a potential indicator of cheating because your opponent could have some form of engine or browser extension etc. open on another tab, either tracking the game directly or with the player entering the moves as they go, and be switching to it to see what the best moves in a given position are and then switch back to the game to play whatever move they want to play. if someone gets an engine to actually play moves for them, the sites will normally be able to detect that, for example, if someone is trying to cheat and get away with it, they will likely be more selective about the amount of engine moves they would make in a game, and amount of games do it in, i.e. just enough to win but not too many that it looks obvious. when you see this you have no way to know why it is happening for sure, and we have to be clear as I have said, as the game was played on lichess it is up to lichess to determine fair play.
It is expected to suspect someone because of lots of disconnections. I don't know what you guys are surprised by. If someone is disconnected from the game but not the site as well then that is sus as f*. Shame on those who blamed him for suspecting a player like this.
Yeah agreed, immediately dismissing Paul's valid concerns is very counter intuitive.
yes, thank you. everyone is entitled to their opinions, as long as not being abusive or offensive to anyone, including my opponents. I do appreciate there may be occasions where this disconnecting / reconnecting happens and all is ok and legit, perhaps someone has youtube open on a tab and is flicking for background music now and again for example, so no cheating at all - problem is - at the time playing the game we have no way to know what our opponent is actually doing - but something is happening and it looks suspicious - 99% of my games on lichess this never happens, so when it does it stands out - then when you play back through games and you see lots of engine recommended moves you can't help but wonder. so I will always be suspicious when I see this and naturally assume my opponent may be potentially cheating on 1 or more moves, and I have the feeling most stronger and more experienced players will feel the same - and as time passes I suspect the chess sites will start taking that view as well with the serious problem of cheating these days. maybe they can introduce a policy that tab switching should be either banned because of the potential for cheating, or if a player does it then the site offers their opponent the option to abort the game or simply stop playing the game. of course, whilst we are suspicious and something may be going on we are never 100% sure of anything so we have to say as the game is played on lichess it is up to lichess to determine fair play. I am more highlighting the potential for cheating that could be taking place with lower rated and less experienced players in mind to be aware to look for this, just in case.
Afternoon Darius. forgot to note re your other observation, possibly hiding user names etc can understand that. I do try to consider this sort of issue with a legal hat on, we can all experience very odd play, for example, that feels very engine like and think, this seems like cheating to me etc. so with this sort of issue I do always try to comment that something may seem suspicious to me personally, may not to others, and whichever site the game is played on, it is up to that site to determine fair play etc - as opposed to saying something like 100% opponent must be cheating, no other possible explanation. something will consider but I do tend to take a view these are public games on public site, anyone can watch any game played, if nobody is doing anything wrong should be nothing to hide and if are doing something wrong, may think again in future, even if get away with it in any given game. in any of these examples I have featured, it is possible the site could have taken action against any user, but I would not be notified, it is kept private between the site and user, I would only be aware if the account is actually banned. but perfectly good valid point you make and could understand if most viewers would agree with that - something will consider - but lets hope I don't really experience this anymore - hope you and rest of our viewers don't either.
for anyone interested - this is Thibault, the founder and still lead develop of lichess, the person everyone has to thank for creating lichess and making the site what it is, speaking in 2017, on the lichess channel, where he gives an insight into basic cheat detection - being 7 years ago systems will have improved over time. (When you see the graph you can imagine each marking being noted every time is the green dot going off and on) ua-cam.com/video/LZgyVadkgmI/v-deo.htmlsi=aM1I3yHZM3DWJqv0&t=1188 - "so we have several layers of detection for cheating, we record the move times of every move, this can be a great teller if someone is consulting a chess engine. if they are playing fast for the obvious moves probably they didn't consult a chess engine, when you see a white square it also means they switched the window, there was a blue event on the browser, which means they probably run a chess engine on the same computer"
Your going to rival Vladimir Kramnik suspicions at this rate.
not quite I don't think and Vlad is only really concerned with the elite professional players but of course at amateur level, where 99% of us play, cheating is a very big problem. I don't have many of these videos on channel, just a handful, just there have been a few close to each other in recent weeks. I am just highlighting what could be a potential indicator of unfair play, not 100% sure, just a potential, up to the site playing on to determine all fair play matters for their sites games - but with lower rated and less experienced players in mind, when you get to the stronger and more experienced players pretty much all of them would find this suspicious, common sense, but of course in any given game there could be a good legit explanation for it - just something to be aware of, just in case, and if anyone experiences it, take a closer look at the game afterwards and other games on the account etc.
@@Paulw7ukhas Lichess confirmed that the green status light is an indicator?
not sure if lichess have any specific article about it but there are plenty of comments in the forums over time. as far as I understand it - the green dot on the game page indicates if the player is connected to the game or not and green dot on the profile means if they are connected to the lichess site or not. that has been stated in the forums plenty of times. as such if you are playing a game and see the dot change and you hover over the profile and it stays green all the time it indicates the player is leaving the game - such as switching tabs - but not leaving the site - whereas if someone for example has an internet connection issue that causes them to disconnect you would expect them to leave the site as well as the game. if I find a specific article will try to remember to pop back and link to it.
I think he was fair with the suspicions, the player was constantly disconnecting (always when was his move), plus the profile was new.
Also last time he had suspensions the guy was banned and he received his ELO back.
Either way I believe it would be better for you to avoid playing new accounts with very high ELO
thank you. again we have to comment as the game was played on lichess it is up to lichess to determine fair play issues for all the games played on their site. All us players can do is report issues when we encounter them. I can only comment for myself of course but I do suspect most stronger and more experienced players will tend to find this type of issue suspicious - even if it turns out no cheating ever takes place and there is an alternative explanation.
I play lots of my games in the arena tournaments, even if you block an account, you can still get paired with that account in tournaments. if you play via home page only and block and account you should then never encounter that account again playing via home page - same on lichess and chess.com. it is something I am considering going forward is playing all games via home page instead of the arena's but i enjoy the arena's, as and when have time for them.