Post Office: why did it take an ITV drama to galvanise us? | James O'Brien - The Whole Show
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- Опубліковано 7 січ 2024
- This is a catch-up version of James O'Brien's live, daily show on LBC Radio from the 8th of January 2024.
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How could PO imagine that all these people, who they had vetted, were criminals. It was statistically impossible so they must have known it was likely to be the software. They prosecuted innocent people to cover up their own failures.
Maybe ITV could make a drama about Brexit in order to educate Rishi Sunak as he seems to have learnt something from this drama.
maybe it might educate you, after all, labour did vote for the referendum, and did undertake to accept the result, seems only the tory's understood the meaning of democracy ?
@@tedtedtedtedteddemocracy is when you can vote on something that isn‘t riddled with lies. Tories is spelt like this.
Maybe it would lead to some convictions of Cambridge Analytica and the role of Cummings et al who manipulated (stole) the vote.
@@tedtedtedtedted What question did the referendum ask?
are you a trump supporter ?@@martinwilkinson4477
What I don't get is there was no money missing. How did courts find these people guilty when there was no actual money missing and no evidence of any money in any of the cases going into the postmasters personal bank accounts? Really makes you question the fundementals of the justice system and how many other scandals are out there.
I also think we will soon be hearing about who was taking back handers in all this high up in the post office and poiticans invovled in other Fujitsu contracts.
the top brass had paid billions for the horizon and if they had to admit they were wrong they might lose their bonus
@@robertovers1863the rich having slightly less than all of the money! Imagine the horror!
The Justice system fails ppl everyday all day long. The Justice system was there to find in fact, those useless judges did not question the evidence, fools the lot of them, but they are completely unaccountable, you do know that, right?
this is the country you live in. This is the malice and contempt with which all government service is delivered and represents exactly the casually destructive, dismissive attitude toward poors and working class people that austerity showed us. Government as hostile, difficult, impossible to navigate. This time, it just caught up some contractors for once.
Absolutely that money went into someone’s pocket we just haven’t got there yet - shining example of how advanced human are in treating each other like sh** and profiting from it
I didn’t realise the power the Post Office has until I watched this drama!😮
The power isn't the problem; it has a hugely responsible job in society. It's the ABUSE of that power by certain executive figures.
@@greghill7759 they had the power to prosecute, which should have come with oversight (because otherwise, the abuse of power is possible).
@@teddansonLA Exactly.
They should never have had such powers!
Paula Vennells, CBE - a shining example as to why I'm an atheist.
Hear! Hear!
She's a typical religious hypocrite
Yeah….
And I bet all those Socialists responsible for Horizon’s implementation and the subsequent denial of its ineffectiveness are the same kind of….
You know….
Religious type of, you know…
It’s surely all a conspiracy.
Thank you for enlightening us.
If Sneer Charmer was in power; it would never have happened and I hope that’s exactly what he’ll be making clear to everyone over the coming weeks.
Oh no, wait a minute.
Forget the last bit.
Jesus would not approve of this woman's actions.
The programme was so moving. So painful for those poor people. Feel disgusting by how they were treated.
Absolutely. Imagine being stranded somewhere without your smart phone and wallet.
Shameful post office, shameful ministers and also shameful company who made the Horizon programme. Not willing to admit their mistakes, happy for postmasters to take the flag disgraceful!
The British arm of Fujitsu who developed the IT system Horizon are still involved with the Post Office,continuously awarded contracts by our Conservative government, along with contracts with the Home Office and the Ministry of Defence ??
@@richardgilbert5339 Are you one of those people that types "conservative" in every post. Who do you think was in power when this began.
The ordinary folk in the U.K. have been deprived of the ability to go to the courts for justice,because the astronomical costs of doing so.Something needs to be done about the costs of lawyers.solicitors,etc.jusicce is the goose that lays the golden eggs.
David Davis being quoted this morning that, exonerating/pardoning the innocents can be done "very quickly". Not sure we should be quoting the very same man who also said getting a Brexit deal could be done "very easily".
At least he didn’t promote false accusations of child abuse unlike certain LBC presenters.
“Nigel Farage, the most stubborn skid-mark on the underpants of British politics”. Word James, word!
Yet is the only one to highlight that 2,000,000 people do not have a bank account and banks can refuse to provide a basic bank account on commercial grounds.
@@greamespens1460 shhh please don't mention that! you're supposed to follow the crowd and universally hate him
@@DannysGalaxyTab yes your right I hate him too,then I sore him drink a pint with a Union Jack behind him I love him now.😂
Unfortunately, anything that needs explaining to many of the British public needs to be done in THE most simplistic way possible. If they cannot understand it within 20 seconds, they can't be arsed to learn anything further.
I've no idea how long this drama is, but I'd wager it has a longer runtime than it would take to read an article.
The point is, watching is easier than reading. Argue the merits amongst yourselves 🤷
@@ethzero Then maybe, as JOB alludes to, LBC should have covered it. And here he is, blaming his audience for not doing so. I know he blames the format of the show, but the format of the show IS the audience.
Amazed Rishi hasn't tweeted the classic "A failure of this size could only happen under a labour government" line yet in regards to this.
It sounds eerily similar to the more recent RoboDebt scandal that has erupted in Australia in the last couple of years, wherein recipients of social security pensions were accused and charged with fraud. Bankruptcy, suicide and devastation was the result.
All post offices they should get together and agree never top up the books from what the program tells them they owe, the post office will never take them all to cort, as the program has been proven to be bug ridden, and they cant sack them all, they will be out of business, in a month.
We live in a country where it is indoctrinated in decision makers to deny deny deny...until it can be shown without question that they are at fault...then they either continue to deny or issue a half-baked apology.
This attitude is rife throughout government and commercial enterprise...and its mainly because those in power know they won't have to face serious repercussions...even if it's proven that they were at fault.
I truly truly hope that this scandal will lead to serious criminal impacts against the decision makers responsible for this massive miscarriage of justice. 🙏🏾
No "pardons', that implies that guilt has been excused, the Postmasters convictions must be QUASHED without any monetary costs to them regarding lawyers or Court costs.
As well as being a true story which has exposed shocking truths which were covered up.
The Drama Mr bates verses the post office was an exceptional drama.
This strongly highlights how important Unions are for ordinary Working Men and Women. Mr Bates organised a Union of Men and Women which is all it was, because he understood he would have no chance against corporate power, which the post office had bought into on his own, or with just a handful of Post masters.
Had the post masters been effectively unionized from the outset, the post office wouldn't have been able to say "you're the only one that's had this problem with this computer system".
This event and the excellently produced drama of this event should be a message to everyone!
You cant do it on your own!
Tony, I am a former subpostmaster. We did have a body called the National Federation of Subpostmasters ( NFSP ).
This body was supposed to represent the subpostmasters interest in any negotiation with the Post Office. As well has renumeration they were also supposed to represent and defend subpostmasters under investigation.
Not only did they fail to do that in many cases. Advising them to accept liability and throwing them under the bus.
To top this up the General Secretary of the NFSP actually defended the Horizon system in front of a select Committee of MPs in the early years of the scandal. This was a huge setback to Alan Bates campaign.
The NFSP was actually in cahoots with Post office. They actually paid the NFSP from contributions from subpostmasters that were collected from deductions from subpostmasters salary. The top brass of NFSP were paid 6 figure sums a were determined to protect their gravy train.
It certainly should. But let's hope the message is more powerful than "keep writing letters and in 2o-30 years the truth might get out. Justice won't be done, but you can't have everything."
@@jaspaltoor2061
Thank you for your excellent informative responce. I look forward to giving you a thoughtful response in a few days. Kind regards. Tony🍻
It's a system called kleptocracy!
Brilliant show. Heard it in the van earlier
I believed the social contract when I was a child, went to a council estate comprehensive, got free higher education in the early 80s, but hit a wall when it came to getting a decent job.
The best route was to leave the country, taking the languages the state had taught me under my arm.
I've done very well at 62 but the UK has seen ZERO benefit from my labours. 🤷
After Brexit I'd have been UNABLE to leave to seek my fortune 🇪🇺.
time starmer's knighthood was reviewed, never mind his culpability for not prosecuting jimmyS.
in this case why didn't starmer, as DPP, take over and close the prosecutions down, by 2009 there was plenty of evidence something was amiss, why were sub-postmasters victimised until 2014, by when both starmer and his 'special adviser on high profile cases' both out the CPS ?
Quite amazing - the folks jumping on board this now elderly matter, just cos it's gone big,
Well it needs somebody to!
If it gets something done about it, don't knock it.
It is people realising they are not the only ones,that maybe why
That's all very well if you're not dyslexic. Makes school very hard and unpleasant.
I didn't read the private eye report but I remember a friend being involved in this, I also remember a documentary on this. I haven't even watched the itv show.
I'd suggest it was the timing of the programme. Festive TV was full of cheap trash and this was a programme of substance. It was one of the very few things on TV that gave your brain a workout. As for getting few callers previously, perhaps it was because folk who knew or had an idea, would have been sacked for gross misconduct for bringing the Post Office/Royal Mail into disrepute.
Goodness think I require a Richard Brooks. Regards my NHS nightmare for sure.
Thankyou James and LBC Team for your continued sensemaking.
💜
There has been a podcast from Radio4, the great post office trail, since 2020 and continuing. I listened to this over a year ago and wondered why it was not Press Headlines.
Computer says you're going to jail
Brazil / Terry Gilliam
At the time, our local post office had its windows put through.
Pay for Private Education and get more ' Choices'.
James, it’s easy to understand why. Almost nobody cares about the news anymore but nearly everyone watches TV. Film and television hold great power over the public
James O'Brien's use of "we" and "us" - as if we all have a news show on a national broadcaster with an audience of millions.
The question should have been "Why did it take an ITV drama to galvanise HIM?"
My no money story was a British Mum and daughter in France who needed euro cash. Gave them €20. No idea if they just blagged me or not but needed to believe them because just in case they really needed the help. You ask for help and hopefully someone helps.
JO with no money, you can always ask for help! There are more kind-hearted people in the world that are willing to help strangers 😊
i remember the local news putting these poor people on notice for every one to see and know.but nothing about how inacent they was in return untill it was news .
I'd have to use the internet on my phone to find the number needed to reverse charge a call.....which somewhat defeats the purpose I suppose.
❤ Terry the teacher re teaching the 5 C's. Any chance that part could be released as a short video because really love to share that.
I am Belgian and I knew about this scandal YEARS ago. Justice asleep over there, or drugged ? Incredible.
Salut Anverse
Stubborn skidmark 😂😂
if you want to see the madness of the post office watch the inquiry interview of elaine cottam day 81 its unbelievable
I had no idea about this story. I watched the drama because of the news coverage that got.
So the drama got more front page coverage than the trial/story itself.
It's literally come out of nowhere for me.
Having said that i wasn't politically on the pulse till Brexit/Trump which also caught me off guard at the time. So i became more politically and journalistically on the pulse from late 2016 onwards and the post office case took place before that period.
Well done Ed Davey, well done!
''The most stubborn skidmark on the underpants of British politics'' LOL Nice one cuz.
If it was one or two post masters well? BUT! Hundreds? I know what I'm thinking......
Can we name the phenomenon "The Tiger King" effect? This tidal outrage harvesting is far far far more effective than expecting the Courts and Legal system to deliver equitable justice....
for instance not only are we the survivors of our own governments bungling of a viral pandemic, but we also pay the bill for the fairly toothless inquiry. Maybe if Netflix made an expose drama about Michelle Mone we'd get an accurate delivery of the law?
Fujitsu, Ed Davey, Keir Starmer & anyone who had the power to overturn, challenge or dismiss the unlawful charges bought against the postmasters should be held accountable in the strongest possible way. Make an example of them and ensure that no other CEO, MP or Legal Entity does this again ! Water Company bosses and NHS Management beware !! We are watching 👀 you !!! Sick of Upper mgt getting away with despicable behaviour and being financially rewarded for it!! Enough!
It didn't get traction in public before, because people in the UK are not very sympathetic to the business owners
One of my friends was often absent from school but that's because his father owned a massive company doing groundworks . it was more important he was there on the job learning the trades than being at school. It's not true for everyone. That's the whole point. You can't have one rule for everybody. Some kids are better off doing other things than being at school.
I'd argue every kid would be better off doing other things.
It became tv entertainment just like celebrities get me out of here . That’s what the public have been conditioned to react to
Seems to be a massive ongoing management skimming operation?
I remember the PO being 20bn under valued pre privitisation......
The caller with his revised “5 C’s” curriculum sounded like an absolute treasure!
The answer to your question is the right wing press were never going to be on the side of the victims in this 😢
Because the post office had the same ability to prosecute without the CPS being onvolved. Addionally, there wasn't one judge who found these people guilty. That's why the Post Office was able to get away with it
Crozier has walked away with no consequences!
Now why does this not surprise me. The really guilty party's get away with anything especially if they friends in the right places or are Tory party donors.
A smartwatch with a esim card (e.g. Pixel watch) works independently of your phone.
Sunak is dishonest about his honesty.
Enjoying this show. Love yer tea cup.
Terry the Teacher makes a great statement at 1:08:38. And this approach of flexibility and soft skills all fly into the face of the British system to regulate and certify everything, but are utterly needed in the time of AI and automatisation. The British system is, unfortunately, still geared to produce worker bees.
At its peak there were over 9,000 Post Office Local branches being operated as franchises of sorts by private retailers. The new owners (post 2011 privatisation) ended the franchise arrangement because they hoped that people would just travel further and use official post offices, internalising the small profits previously made by corner shops and mini markets. Just another case of privatisation gone wrong (or, perhaps, gone right)
Labour were in government too when all this happened. They did nothing either
Television has always been the drug of the nation
I do. It understand James mocking the banking issue of Garage, so fare he is the only person highlighting the issue. 2,000,000 in this country do not have a bank account and a basic bank account came be and has been refused on commercial reasons, furthermore until you become a bank account holder you cannot complain to the ombudsman
a different topic, but its very similar to the subject of the attack on the disabled, in the sense that it just doesnt make an interesting story for people it doesnt effect directly.
Humans respond to narratives over dry reporting. Drama provides this.
if I was a top post office person at the beginning of this and knew how many post offices that were affected,I would question Horizon,stand by my employees,what went on that made the bosses deny the phenomenon ,there's to much Tec and to much faith in Tec,
Is there a way to watch this live in the mornings?
I agree with the entire premises of this show. Only that Pythagoras was probably not the best choice to target. It's just how you get things square. Maybe complex algebra would have been a better example of pointlessness for a lot of people.
James - you are the “pulse” - how come investigative journalism ignored the Computer Weekly Magazine 2009? Hate to use the phrase “Go Figure”…
Who was in government when the P.o. office nuts started on.
Tories!
Let me clarify: Conservatives negotiated the deal with Fujimitsu and Labour inherited it. The Labour minister in charge at that time declared that the deal was (numerous problems) bad, but Fujimitsu pressured the government to abide by the contracted terms.
All three parties are guilty ,if they did not know they should have known
@@danxzon Did you not read my comment above? It starts with "Let me clarify....
Putting mashine before people, putting foreign made mashine over own countries people
I cant wait to see what A.I is likely to get up to.
Personality politics. We care about things that “well kent faces” tell us to care about if those faces have the same political alignment to us or tend to appear in the media around things we care about, like Coronation Street. When finally we had those two popular actors faces to put to the issue, it flicked the switch like Nigel Farage’s face can flick gammon switches. Before that only serious faceless adults were interested in the Post Office issue and we don’t care about the opinions of those or of experts or any of these other boring people, we care if we can see popular faces connected with it in the media.
Simple that someone was on the receiving side of the mismanaged money. Get some young idealistic accountants to dig throught the money trail and there is your answer for all things!
maybe you need to work out an area to lay tiles or carpet and only have 2 measurements rather than 3.
Then Pythagorean theorem could be helpful.
Or you are a builder and you know the height and base but you do not know the length of the staircase/ladder you will need etc.
❤ it they taught maths in that practical way and I might have passed!
It is smoke to cover up TORIE/STOCK MARKET Greed. Feeding Frenzy comes to mind when they sold to Post Office to themselves.
How did Mr O'Brien miss the opportunity to say "Counting" is an important C 1:08:47
And only started to do it after horizon tec system was implemented they did know it was the computer system pretty early on
Was keir Starmer in charge off the CPS then .. I think he was
This is why cash is king and the digital currency will spell the end of freedom. This is why I dont want a smart meter or smart car.
Or phone.
James O'Brien borrowing £20 off Chris Moyles was not what I expected to listen to today!
And I love how he blames others for their own predicaments as if he isn't also responsible for the trousers he wears on any given day!
@@nathantuff8814 When has he done that?
@@mickreaddin4979 one of the callers in the last hour while trying to find a similar predicament to his own.
The British public is too uninformed and too distracted by culture wars and small boats nonsense.
My guy, .... you could've called your own phone. you know. the one you do know. and. the one that is right in front of your wife.
still a nice segment though
James please don’t hide your mouth behind the microphone 🤷♀️🤷♀️☺️☺️
NDAs ?
Bollx, tell all.
F the PO private squad pocketeers.
Plod wannabees.
Well said mate.
@@christinemcgough8111 Thank you.
You could have thumbed a lift.
The moral of the phone and cash thing is don't lose your phone. It's just like losing a wallet and also have a power bank in your pocket..
Also always keep 15 quid in your pocket
As a broadcaster, you are not doing your job of informing people very well at all. It took an ITV drama because you and other newscasters weren't doing your job
Also yes, don't buy Apple stuff. It's a mugs game
What do you do if you lose your wallet? How is this different to losing your phone? Just have a backup battery if you don't have the discipline to charge your phone
If you was a real journalist you should of been talking about this instead of fixating on Brexit but now you are backtracking.
James O'Brien's show is the greatest.
James, you’re so obsessed with moaning on and on about brexit, you just don’t see a real story when it’s given to you on a platter
This story goes way, waay back before Brexit. Funny how those of us who voted to remain in the EU are often accused of being obsessed with Brexit.
Why didn't YOU make owt of it, eh?
Clean yer lugs out Hetold you why st the start of the show
Stick to writing.
Terry in Ryslip, is the truth on this.
what got the people talking james was the emotional effect on how the drama came across too people thats it.. nothing to do way netflix it was itv who made then aired the series