Serve Faster by Swinging Earlier!
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- Опубліковано 11 гру 2023
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Some great players don't sync their throw with their back leg drive. But give it a try and you might transform your serve!
I love this idea of synchronizing the (1) push off the right leg with (2) throwing the right elbow up at the ball.
Someone already commented on what I was going to say, but to repeat them, and you, it's great that you describe WHEN to drive the elbow in regards to fulfilling the kinetic chain and synchronizing the lower body. I had not heard the description of using the dominant side before now. You are doing some really good studying and passing this knowledge on.
I previously thought dear Tom you had already managed to break down the serve to the elements. Today’s vid clearly dwarfed those assumptions as naive and premature for not a single coach in the universe has ever got to this level of comprehension. Bravo 🙌
I started noticing this too as I was learning to serve and it was a game changer for me. It definitely cures the early racket drop. Excellent advice
Absolutely brilliant. You've outdone yourself this time, Tom!
I believe the same thing applies to forehand, one handed/two handed backhands as well. If you do it correctly and relaxed, similar to the racket drop in serve, the racket flips back and down with the back hip drive. If your hip doesn’t initiate it then the arm takes over and swings forward independently, which is the less effective way.
Tom, I have a brilliant idea!😀
Track the ball with the front shoulder on groundstrokes. Yes, for excellent turn and optimal timing. What do you reckon? Worth a video about it?
My platform stance was too narrow for this design. Everything needs to go up, as Tom says.
Great vid. What about Sampras? Seems like he drags his back foot along for the ride. Top/side of his right shoe seems to drag on the court a bit. Can’t imagine he’s getting any push from that foot
I've not heard the timing of the right foot with the initiation of the swing and I've watched a lot of serve videos. The 45 degree angle of the torso at contact is also new to me. What does that angle help with? I'm guessing it drives the body forward? (I know I'm guilty of going straight up). And lastly, the onlyfans comment made me burst out laughing. Both humor and insight.
Was thinking abouth it a couple of months ago,.. weight transfer trough center of a masss I.e. elbow not the palm,.. hip not foot,..
Great insight!
Good job so far Tom
That's funny, as it should be. And I'm not going to Identify where else I saw similar advice. And I can barely restrain me from saying I hit some interesting serves all by myself yesterday by pulling the trigger when the arm was still climbing up a transparent glass wall. And that Doug King said to steal happily from anywhere as all teaching pros do and never ever as Taylor Swift would say worry about attribution. But there are voices as everywhere in tennis, and then there are other voices, and Tom is one of the very best-- John Escher
Very well explained! My question is whether the weight is on the back foot at the time the ball is tossed ? By tossed, I am refering to that instance of time when ball leaves the tossing hand.
Yes. At least until the ball is tossed. Ideally longer than that
How might this affect the height of your ball toss? I tend to have a relatively high toss, so perhaps I should lower it a bit so I'm not waiting around in the trophy position too long?
I like that idea but you can also wait on your back leg until it’s time to swing
How much is the of?
What?
like
I think Michael Stich's serve is more fluid than Federer's. Stich's second serve is big.
I don’t think his serve is a good one to copy. I don’t like what he does with his back foot and wouldn’t recommend any else to do it.
You seemingly contradict yourself or then you are just unnecessarily ambiguous : First you talk about the sequence/coordinated chain and not rushing your dominant arm/elbow, then next you refer to Roger and use the term synchronicity to describe the wanted back leg - dominant arm mechanism. So, you are saying they happen independently of each other, that is, as simultaneously as possible and not via a 'sequence' (kinematic chain). Are you recommending using your dominant arm actively and not in a more relaxed and passive fashion in the launch and swing ? Anyway, these two notions sound incompatible. And talking about an active elbow risks rushing things and producing just that early and shallow racquet drop we do not want.
I don't understand this question: "Are you recommending using your dominant arm actively and not in a more relaxed and passive fashion in the launch and swing." Of course it's an active movement, how can it be anything else. Also, rushing comes when you move the racket first, rather than the elbow. I'll explain the leg push and elbow sync in a video.
@@TomAllsopp Yes, thank you. I am not sure if the ‘of course’ part is unproblematically warranted though. There are two principal ways of making swings happen in tennis, the predominantly active and the essentially passive use of the dominant arm. Hence I think this duality of approaches also applies to the serve swing mechanics. In the latter case you achieve the lag and deep racquet drop and thus the explosive swing by inertia of a maximally relaxed and optimally timed and configured racquet arm as you launch the upper body up adding the cartwheel action; the easiest component of the load should be the coil-uncoil, i.e., the rotation of the shoulders (over hips) but that motion in itself doesn’t produce much if any of the racquet drop as it happens on the horisontal plane (yes, rather perpendicular to the spine: the rotation axis aligns with the medial/spine of the body) and doesn’t as such generate external rotation of the shoulder (rather horisontal abduction which might be a good thing though in the grand scheme of things as it helps to achieve a hyperangular upper arm/elbow position as part of the lag). So, all in all there are two ‘legit’ ways to do it, the latter way being the more demanding but also more ‘effortless’ and beautiful one. How does Fed do it? It is a topic of another discussion….
You can’t hit a serve 100mph any other way. It’s got to be a purposeful active strike of the ball. Inertia etc isn’t getting it done.
@@TomAllsopp Thank you, Tom. I appreciate your contributions on this fine channel of yours, rich in technical detail and specific little insights of immediate and long term practical value. However, in this admittedly controversial and most complex issue of tennis serve biomechanics I do disagree, at least in a significant degree if not categorically/qualitatively, to put it in fancier terms ( I like my share of fancy in tennis, in thinking and in life). First, there is the problem of the lag; how do we achieve it (if we do)? The conventional and thus correct answer says that it should happen as a by-product of active, dynamic employment of certain bigger muscle groups preceding the lagging segment in the kinematic chain, an inertial effect. Well, if we accept this also with regard to the serve and racquet drop we are suddenly baffled by another conventional claim, namely that you should swing with your arm muscles to get the pop of 100+ mph serves out of our fine-tuned, well-timed coordination of actions. We must then ask: Well, at what point does the passive lag turn to active arm swing of the serve? At the point of maximum drop/external rotation of the shoulder in a matter of milliseconds? Hardly intelligible, let alone practically viable. You suggest it happens already earlier as you 'throw' your elbow up in sync with the back leg push. Okay, that might work as we can also attest by your demonstrations (given you are correct in your 'self-analysis'). This means then a compromise between intentionally produced and passively achieved lag/racquet drop. And we can subscribe to that instruction as long as it works more or less "fine". Yet we might still suspect if this really is the optimal or - even, as you maintain - only way to do it, to get the pop. There is some deep wisdom in the passive inertial lag and its benefits to the swing efficiency and the subsequent racquet head speed in the contact. Why should there then be a fundamental discrepancy between the forehand and the serve in this regards? Ironically you express this widely accepted sentiment that only by using your arm to 'muscle' the serve you will have any hope of getting ATP (or even WTA!) level serve speeds. But we haven't yet even touched, not in explicit terms, the question of how the passive/inertial lag could be achieved without intentionally doing something actively with your arm! As if it could not be done. But of course it can be done, simply by using the 'somersault' rotation in the load-launch, that is, by tilting the upper body back and quickly forward again going through the trophy pose. Emblematically it is precise this degree of freedom and mode of load that is often completely omitted from serve analytics and models like Mark Kovacs' eight phase model. Yes, even if the serve swing lag can be generated by a passive, fully relaxed serve arm this doesn't yet prove that this kind of 'inertial arm end-chain' mechanism can produce 120 (+) mph serves. We contend it can. Why wouldn't it? Nobody said it is easy, even less so if you have learned the arm-heavy way of doing it. It demands excellent timing, relaxation, coordination (combined with the assumed athleticism and explosiveness) above the level and refinement of active arm serve but as you go beyond the confines of the latter a completely new way of thinking and doing things will open to your unwary, disbelieving eyes. You still doubt and disagree? :D - Watch Jan Zelesny throwing javelin, the goat of the sport. So easy and effortless, so effective and impressive. What is his secret? Does (did) he arm the throw? Does he throw 'with the arm'? Hardly. The motion is smooth, fluid, explosive, perfectly timed action in which the relaxed arm is a pivotal factor, the x factor if you will, of the equation. The contrast to the body builder/weight lifter type throwers is like night and day the latter dudes muscling the throw with their thick muscular arms grunting and grinning in agony - and still falling short in the initial javelin speed (and distance thrown). Is Roger the zelesny of tennis serve? Maybe, maybe not. Regardless, our analysis holds.
@@jackquinn9535 could you demonstrate this please? Sounds like you’re a great writer who’s watched slow motion videos but you’ve never experienced it. This idea that on a serve or forehand the arm is just passive as it’s propelled by the body etc is just wrong. Do you play tennis?