HEAT 4K UHD BLU-RAY REVIEW
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2022
- 4K UHD Blu-ray review of Michael Mann's 1995 classic 'Heat' starring Al Pacino, Robert De Niro and Val Kilmer. I purchased a copy of this to review it simply because so many people were convinced that the video transfer had been messed up somehow but I am of the opinion that it was not and I go into some detail to explain why. The general criticism is that the video transfer from the 35mm original camera negative had been graded too dark. One thing I should have said in this video is that you cannot watch this film in daylight or with the lights on otherwise you're probably going to be convinced it's too dark. It was made to be watched in cinemas so get the screening room as pitch as possible.
In this video you will also get a look at the new HMV store in Bath where I purchased this copy of Heat. It's another great HMV on one of our high streets and home movie enthusiasts need to support these physical stores as much as possible as it all helps ensure physical media survives and thrives which is not something that can really be said of web only retailers. If you're in the UK but unable to get to an HMV but would like a 4K copy of Heat it can be purchased on-line from HMV here: store.hmv.com/store/film-tv/4...
The link to the video of the 70mm print of Lawrence of Arabia being projected in the Sydney Ritz cinema by Clark Teddles can be seen here: • Lawrence Of Arabia on ... - Фільми й анімація
Hi John. I ran this movie as a projectionist in 1996 and remember its darkness. I remember sitting in the auditorium after building up the print and wondering, if my xenon bulb was going out. Nope. That’s exactly how it was. I moved it to another auditorium, and sure enough, same luminosity. You’ve got a sharp eye!
That's just about the best response I could have wished for James. Thank you. I certainly couldn't be sure that my memory was entirely accurate but it seems it has been pretty good for that single viewing of Heat I enjoyed back in January 1996. Some people don't understand how I can remember how films looked in a cinema from decades ago and as much as I don't remember all of them, if there's something particular about a film or a print then it gets laid down in my brain and tends to stay there. It's probably only those of us who have projected a lot of film and wonder why one film doesn't look as good as another who develop this annoying ability.
John.
This comment needs to be pinned!
@@ZsMealsandMovies I had been thinking the same things Z so consider it done! John.
I watched Heat on 35mm in The Prince Charles last Nov and it looked great. That shot with DeNiro hiding is supposed to replicate what the cops are seeing or not seeing before we see the 'Predator Vision'. I didn't really find the film to be too dark, it was really the same as my memories of it in Feb 96. If anyone fancies doing a comparison, the Prince Charles still runs the 35mm periodically.
@@davidjames579 Thank you David. I expect The Prince Charles had the good sense to track down and purchase a 35mm print. John.
Hi John, I bought the Blu Ray about 4 years ago and have not watched it. I really like the movie but each evening I think of watching it, I stare at 170 minutes and go elsewhere. I think this is one of your better reviews. Too many people ignore the original intentions of the director and the fact that most people's equipment is not calibrated. Last night we unspooled the 4K Criterion "Double Indemnity" - what a treat as the seamstress had never seen it. Wish we had stores like HMV over here.
I can't remember anything about Double Indemnity but I know I've seen it. I should have been there sat between you and the seamstress. I could have brought my seamstress over too now that I think about it and the pair of them could have swapped cotton and things!
That 170 minute running time really doesn't feel like almost 3 hours. It did in the cinema but now that I know it trundles on past the climax I'm prepared for it and able to enjoy what comes after. I found it all a bit frustrating the first time around and that spoiled the film for me. As for the dark nature of this film, I don't think the naysayers have been right to criticize it so vehemently. I may be wrong but to me it looks how it did in the cinema and I could never ask for any more than that.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 funny, it would be lovely to entertain you both over here. Many people have no clue about film transfers. The perfect transfer for me is one that accurately reflects the intent of the original creators. Not something that increases luminosity, removes natural film grain or other abhorrences. I feel sorry for studios as they struggle to deal with all of this.
Heat is a masterpiece and for me, paced to perfection. It contains the great shootout ever put to film - mainly because the sound design is real and gritty.
The only criticism I have of that shootout Clark is that the police clearly hadn't practiced on the target range and yet the villains were able to shoot just about anyone who moved. They didn't seem to need to reload too often either. Just where would they have hidden all that ammunition? But it's fiction and a work of fantasy and I don't let the seven shots from Kevin Costner's six shooter in Open Range spoil the overall impression so we have to take all this sort of thing with a pinch of salt. The biggest problem with Heat was that the shootout was the climax and then the film carried on for another hour. I was prepared for it this time but I wasn't back in 1996. The only other criticism I'd level at the film is the first appearance of Ashley Judd and her multi-changing hairstyle. Clearly two takes were intertwined there and it really was obvious. Not the only film to come a cropper with something like that though so it can be forgiven again.
I wonder how much of an impact that shootout would have made with the original sound from location. It sounded pretty terrific in the 'making of' featurette.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 hahaha - 1st time I’ve heard you nitpick! I take your point about the shootout, but for me, this film was pushing the envelope of action/drama story telling and Michael Mann clearly had an unorthodox structure in mind. The real story is Pacino vs De Niro and it would of sucked to end in that typical shootout. Instead, we get another tale of full on narcissism and revenge. I just think it’s an absolute masterpiece.
Ashley Judd though… her hair is terrible in this film. then again, so was Val Kilmer’s hair - I guess it was why they met in the movie 😂. In fact, when they go their separate ways, his hair looks mint! Hahaha
I’m going to get the 4K disc, despite the mixed reviews. But yours was the 1st review I’ve seen where the review understood about original negatives, directors intentions and cinematography. You win again, John. Brilliant as always.
There was a lot of reloading as I remember
@@reflexfine8267 Val Kilmer certainly reloads at least once. Next time I watch it I'll keep an eye out for bulging pockets and magazines of ammunition being pulled out and slapped in the guns.
In American movies there are way better shootouts those of Peckinpah for example.
Great video, as always! In 1997-1998, I was a new projectionist at a 14 screen multiplex here is Arizona. A couple of the "veteran" projectionists, college students, had held on to reel 5 of Heat when returning the multiple film cans back to the local distributor. Some late nights, when assembling the weekend's latest releases, they would thread up the infamous LA bank shootout screen and rock out the Sony SDDS sound system. I still have the muscle memory of lacing up those old 35mm projectors. It's weird that I miss it.
Excellent Brian. There's nothing like lacing up a film print because it's something tangible whereas a video is nothing without the electronic equipment to be able to see it with. If you still have that reel stashed away anywhere, send it over!
John.
Noce comment👍
Thanks for setting the record straight on the Heat 4k, John. Very enjoyable video as always! Best, Andrew.
Good to hear from you Andrew. If you do see the Heat 4K I hope it doesn't do a Prince of Darkness impersonation on your system because some systems are displaying it better than others. John
This is interesting, John. I've seen Heat on 35mm. It was in 2011. I remember thinking during and after the screening that the image was unusually dark and muted (much more muted than 16 years of film print fading should entail), but at the same time that it didn't look wrong, that it was dark and muted on purpose on behalf of director Michael Mann. I also know that Mann is concerned with realism in his films - Heat probably looks the way it looks as a result of Mann wanting to achieve a realistic look to the film. The 4K disc probably looks exactly the way Mann wants it to look.
Erik.
I can only really recall that one sequence Erik but it was a good indication that set me on this path to concluding that there was a definite attempt with this 4K to match the 35mm prints as closely as possible. I can't be certain until I find someone with a 35mm print to either loan me or show me but it does have that look that screams 'dark by design' at me. I also think that all our home video equipment is different and will give slightly different results. With a video as dark as Heat that difference could be the difference between night and day because the margin for error will be so small.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 That too probably is a factor. I just think that the original camera negative looks that way and that the 4K video disc looks the way it does as a consequence.
Erik.
A faded film print would appear brighter, since there's less dye to block the light from the lamp. In any case prints from the 90s onward are low-fade and don't start to become noticably degraded for at least 100 years.
Excellent review John. Glad you enjoyed it and I’m 100% with you. I’m of the same opinion and feel Mr Mann was attempting to recreate the look we had in the cinema.
A lot of the complaints seem to come from those who just preferred the previous home releases or are viewing it on varying degrees of equipment etc.
Interested to see what you review next. I’ve just picked up the German release of Total Recall. Apparently Eagle Pictures did their own encode and it’s supposed to be a little better image compared to the Studio Canal version we got in the UK.
I think many films get muddied due to home video releases down the ages. Many or most of them were taken from low contrast prints so a false impression has been given. I think having the same film on films at times can tell us when something is not quite as it once was. If I can find someone with a print of Heat on 35mm then I expect we'll find out for sure how close the 4K is. I think it's similar and a good attempt at reproducing the look of the film on home video.
John.
Hi John, I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve watched this film but like you I remember the first time I watched it in the Bristol Odeon back in the 90s. I bought the 4k steelbook - I’m yet to watch it and perhaps wasn’t that excited to do so given the chatter about it being too dark. After seeing your review I’m a bit more excited to watch it now! All the best, Rich
Hopefully you'll be prepared for any scenes that do display slightly too dark on your system Rich but you may find there aren't any. It's still a hugely enjoyable film and as with any film, it helps when they've retained the filmic look and Heat certainly has.
John.
After much consideration and comparison I've decided to keep my Definitive Edition blu-ray and not double-dip. Thanks for another great review
That may be the same as the Blu-ray in this pack Scott so I'd do the same thing. John.
Hi John
A brilliant review as always. Keep up the great work. I saw Heat presented on 35mm earlier this year I'm March at the Prince Charles Cinema in London and I thought it looked exactly like the new 4K does in terms of how dark it was etc. Maybe it was a tad darker on the 4K but like you say that's probably due to viewing it on domestic equipment. It'd one of my all time favourite films so finally getting to see it on 35mm earlier on the year was an experience I'll cherish as I was too young to see it in cinemas back in 95 and saw it for the first time when it was released on VHS
You're the second person to confirm the 35mm prints were dark Ben with the first being a cinema projectionist who screened Heat in 1996 (or late 1995 when it was first released in the USA). I've pinned his comment to the top so have a look at that. Fancy being too young to see the film back then though!!!
I actually really like the 4K disc but that's because I never forgot that one sequence where it was a struggle to see anything in the shadows. I expect the VHS used a low contrast print as the master so that it wouldn't be so dark for home video back then.
Maybe I'll see you at the Prince Charles one day. A cinema that is doing the right thing and flying the flag for the best was to exhibit films today... on film!
John.
@@moviecollector5920 yeah, I've just turned 36 and was only 9-10 when the film was originally released. I can remember pestering my parents to see it due to taking an interest in film and cinema from a very young age though. I've owned the film on most formats including VHS, DVD, Bluray and now 4K and see now after seeing the 35mm print i think that the image starts matching the prints around the Bluray era. Some scenes in the Bluray are a lot lighter in comparison but certain scenes still bear a similarity.
I also own the film on Lasersisc although I've never viewed it due to it being framed and signed by Robert De Niro, Al Pacino and Val Kilmer. Not collected in person unfortunately but still my most prized possession when it comes to my collection for sure
Thank you for another good and comprehensive review. I "only" have the blu ray edition, but what a epic movie - I just love the story, characters and the actors.
Appreciate your content as always, keep up the good work!
Thank you Morten. John.
I love that you can back up your findings like in this instance, you having seen Heat at the cinema and remembered how it looked.
Having made some adjustments to my mates TV before I suggested he put his DVD of Heat on. I looked quite different to the BD SKU I have and much more like the screen grabs I saw of the Heat 4K some time ago.
I need to investigate why BDs don't carry the same colour palette and look (obviously minus the HDR) as DVDs and 4K releases.
Great video as ever John and nice to see another HMV store popping up.
Trevor
I've been wondering about the slightly different colour bias of Blu-ray too Trevor so we're thinking along the same lines. Obviously HDR is the major difference to 4K discs but why do we tend to get the blue hue on Blu-ray so often. It's not all of them so maybe we're putting two and two together and making three.
I have pinned a comment to the top of this and on there you'll see that a projectionist kindly confirmed that my recollection of Heat in the cinema is correct. Apparently several other reviews of the 4K of Heat have mistakenly claimed it's too dark but it's not that they're wrong, it's just that it was a very dark film to start with.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 Morning John. Yes I read that comment. Solid back up that the 4K is perfectly fine 🙂
Maybe we need to explore set ups and why people "think" these films look too dark?
Trevor
@@doublebillmovies I don't think it's the individual setup of the telly or video projector because evidently my video projector was not able to handle the darkest sequences perfectly. Others who have left comments on here have said that they couldn't do anything to brighten the image up enough but having said that, it is interesting that my telly handled it all without the requirement for any tweaking which was a little surprising given how dark some of Heat really is. I do believe it is just that some tellies are not up to the job and it seems to be across all makes and methodologies of tellies with even some OLED owners reporting that they were looking at almost total blackness. So was I now that I think about it so maybe they're in disbelief that seeing such a dark film could be right. Someone must have done a review that was popular and has convinced a lot of people that this disc is too dark.
John.
Studies should burn discs and screen 4K transfers on a few calibratwd consumer televisions to ensure the transfer in progress will look acceptable in homes.
A few cheaper monitors when they're going through the monumental colour and denstiy grading process just might ensure a compromise between how a disc should look and how it looks best on lesser home equipment so that's not a bad idea. Having said that, about a year ago I did see some trade blurb claiming that a manufacturer's new professional monitor was as good as the old cathode ray tube displays so it's possible we're marching in the right direction and in years to come we'll all be able to see this 4K of Heat just as it should be seen.
John.
Another really good review John :)
Heat is a fantastic crime film with a great cast and good performances. My only complaint is that it's a bit slow at times but it doesn't bother me too much. The shootout scene is without a doubt the best part of the film.
How about the chase through the airport though? A re-working of the same sequence from Peter Yates's Bullitt perhaps? I found the last hour a bit of a chore in the cinema but this time I was ready for the climax not to be the ending of the film and the almost 3 hour running time went through like a 2 hour film. Great acting, a great cast and another 4K disc that looks just like a film. Wonderful!
John.
A great review, as always😄 This is one of those films i have on my "to watch" list. It is interesting with how divided people are on this transfer. I guess it comes down to what transfer you like better. If the 4k is the version Michael Mann originaly wanted it to look like then i would choose that transfer. Just my opinion.
I can't be certain that it replicates the original film prints Morten but it has that look and the fact that I can recall the sequence with De Niro's character hiding in the shadows as being dark in the cinema is a pretty good indication that this was an attempt to match the look of the 35mm prints. John.
This is one of those movies that I will never get bored of watching. Absolutely love it. Watched it on DVD, laserdisc and blu-ray. Might have to upgrade!! Cheers.
I only ever saw it at the cinema prior to this 4K Emmet but I think it's just about as good as that film print I saw all those years ago. Many other UA-camrs were confused by the dark nature of the film but I've cleared all that confusion up now, thankfully. John.
Great review again John. Excellent news on the new HMV store in Bath. We have almost completed on a 2nd home/bolthole in Bath (adjacent to The Crescent) and I am very much looking forward to visiting the store. I had to chuckle regarding your being drawn to the vinyl section and keeping your wallet in tact - I am also like a boy in a sweet shop in places like this!! :-)
I'll have to meet you there one day Dave. We went over again last Friday week and I shot some of their 4K special offers for a possible future video. The 2 for £24 is currently far too tempting but I actually got 2 for £20 from their web shot a couple of weeks before and hope to feature those in an upcoming video.
CEX is pretty good in Bath too. I got the four Star Trek film box for £38 in there.
John.
Certainly we should meet up at sometime John. We love Bath and from what you are saying, there are some superb deals to be had at the new HMV store. Looking forward to your future videos........Dave
Another great and fair review. Excited about announced 4K of Highlander - great looking box set.
Highlander is one of my favourite films. The trouble is that I've owned it on Super 8 for over 30 years. I know it so well that I could probably recite the entire script!
John.
Another professional review of a great movie John. I haven't invested in the 4k as I already have the blu-ray, but after your review I'll be buying it asap. 👍
The Blu-ray from 2017 appears to be the same John so I don't expect you'll see much difference. It might be worth hanging on for a while as it's bound to come down in price, particularly after all the negative reports it appears to have had. John.
@@moviecollector5920 Thanks for the advise John, I'll wait.
Glad you love the Bath HMV Shop. Sadly my local has shrunk its physical media by 80% and now has very few Blu-ray titles. It still has plenty DVD but 4K section has also shrunk down. I’m not a fan of these new brand stores. I used to go in every week and purchase something but now since it reopened in May I’ve been in twice and come out empty handed. (Great for saving money)! My purchases now are online only sadly, I miss the days of browsing through the many titles on different formats.
Don't forget that HMV have everything for sale on their web shop so if you don't find what you're looking for in store you will still be supporting the store to a smaller extent by putting an order in through the web site. The new stores are a bit more akin to Forbidden Planet I suppose but I like to look at all the toys as well as the home movies discs and records.
John.
Interesting to hear your take on the transfer. I also saw the picture on cinematic release but don’t remember it being so dark. It was the first outside robbery scene that hit me. I remember it being a bright day but the sky seemed to be very dull. I could be remembering it differently so couldn’t swear to it. Funny as some people thought Dune was too dark but looked fine on my system
Dune was a bit of a mess on my video projector and telly but all the investigation into that one was a good training ground for Heat. I can't be certain that this 4K has been mastered to replicate the 35mm prints but I do remember that sequence I detailed with Robert De Niro almost being invisible in the shadows because in the cinema I wondered what on earth was going on as we could barely see him. It's possible it was just that one scene graded or shot that way but the overall appearance on this disc does indicate otherwise. When I get hold of a 35mm print I'm be able to confirm or otherwise.
John.
Dune looked great on my system. I saw Heat last year in 35mm and whilst a dark film, it wasn’t as dark as the 4K. The only scene I recall being noticeably dark was the balcony scenes between Neil and Eddy. I’ll give this another go in a few months, no doubt it will soon drop in price.
@@spaceodds1985 Don't forget the cinema would have had a multi-kilowatt xenon lamp punching its way through the 35mm film which still has better colour and density. If we ever get back to the quality of CRT then we may find that the 4K disc is actually less dark than any of us are seeing it today. But it's also possible that the grading has been darkened a bit further. We won't know for sure until someone sends me a 35mm print!
Heat is an amazing film and the transfer is perfect, I don't see the problems that others have said about it being too dark.. absolute rubbish imo, it was shot the way M Mann intended us to watch it, if ppl are finding it too dark then they can always change the settings on their TV it's not difficult, or their TV is not set up correctly, I've found no issues and I'm well happy. Brilliant review and looking forward to the next one you do
There are quite a few who are reporting similarly Dave so it is indeed down to individual systems. I wonder if some might also be watching in daylight which isn't going to do the dark imagery of Heat much good. Having said all this, my video projector doesn't have the contrast capabilities of my telly and so it is rather too dark in a couple of scenes through the projector but it's not so bad that it ruins the enjoyment of the film. Most of it looks pretty darned fabulous to me and best of all it's another 4K disc that looks like a film print.
John.
Loving the VHS with your set up John I was born in 76 VHS was my up bringing. Great video again 👍
Yes, that's an Akai and although it can be a bit clunky I didn't ever find many VHS recorders more capable than that particular Akai model. It's the second one I ever had and still in occasional use today. VHS was a joke compared to Super 8 and even LaserDisc but it was all a part of the home movie pastime.
John.
I got the 4k steelbook and it's a solid 4k in my eyes now is it crazy good? Nah ofc not. But it has a very light layer of grain and u have the option for the brighter 4k scanned blu-ray. You see the heat around the corner. Great review!
Quite a few of us seem to like it Ghetti so it seems it's not quite as bad as has been made out but I do think it's the differences between equipment that have caused the discrepancies.
John.
Good Day, Going to purchase my copy of Heat on 4K on Tuesday from my local HMV. In the process of booking my ticket to the IMAX screening of Jaws. I can not wait.
Well done Gurdip. I'd like to join you at a cinema for Jaws but I know it's going to be a video projection and that doesn't tend to thrill me like film always did. Having said that, if they've got Jaws at the BFI IMAX I know they'll do a good job with it even if it is only a 4K projection. It would be jolly good fun watching that great movie on their 90 foot wide screen.
John.
Hi John,another great upload thanks for this video. I always look forward to your new videos.
This one was certainly an interesting little project Joe.
John.
Spot on with that review Jon, i have seen quite a lot of discussion on forums about this disc!!! I thought it looked just fine on my setup, no problems at all, and compared to the blu ray was much better.
That was what I found too Aidey. Much better on my telly than the video projector in terms of contrast in the really dark scenes but I think enough comments on here have confirmed that all our systems vary and some are displaying Heat just fine while others are not. The upshot is that there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the disc or the transfer of the film which should be good for everyone to know even if it doesn't look particularly great on many systems because when that system has to be replaced it might look great on the next one.
John.
Hi John,
Great review! I bougth the blu ray for Heat just a few months ago so I'll probably watch the film for the first time on that. If I like the film enough I'll get the 4K.
Thank you so much for the mention at the end! my video now has over 500 views and I have 650 subscribers which is unreal, Thank you once again!
nothing confirmed just yet about BTTF on 35mm, but I'm sure it will work out. And if it doesn't, then I will always have that extra Lawrence of Arabia video coming soon.
Here's to Celluloid!
Clark
I'm not sure there's too much difference between the Blu-ray and the 4K of Heat Clark. The 4K is better but there were some scenes I saw on the Blu-ray that appeared to look better than the 4K. Overall the 4K has a nicer look though but if your Blu-ray is the 'Director's Definitive Edition' I should stick with that as it's from the same 4K master.
Back to the Future is sure to get peoples attention so I couldn't help myself but mention it but I did say that nothing is promised so if you don't get in to see that one then nothing is lost but you might have gained a few more viewers just on the chance it's coming. It's really rather exciting seeing your views go up and your following increase. Getting into the projection boxes is a masterstroke and you deserve all the success you are enjoying.
I think celluloid was the name of the old flammable nitrate stock. These days it's all polyester safety stock. Nitrate went out in the fifties as it was so dangerous.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 I believe my blu ray of Heat is the definitive directors cut, so all well in that case. The only main differences I saw between the 4K and the blu ray of heat (after looking at some comparisons) was HDR and a slightly more sharper image. Your probably right, I'm not missing out on too much owning the blu ray.
as for BTTF on 35mm, I'm just waiting for a final word to say its ok and then it should be all good! Thank you for giving it a mention though, it lets people know I've got some more future film videos coming soon.
Great in-depth review. I Grew up in Colorado...beautiful State.
I rather fancied living in Colorado a while back Bob. I'd still like to get back there occasionally even now I'm older. Not sure my body would be able to take so much skiing these days though. John.
Hello John! Wonderful review. This movie in a large theater in Manhattan New York City they were many areas of darkness and in it however that was overshadowed by the complexity of the film, the Great acting the great writing the great cinematography and definitely the score / soundtrack was really incredible. I don't know if this film was shot digitally maybe that would explain the contrast and the colors that are nuanced maybe it was a first generation digital cameras or film I don't know I'm going to look into that. One quick thing about doing you mentioned I remember the sequence of the sandworm when we first encountered it in the trailer it's well lit up and you can see all the detail however in the film version on IMAX you can barely make it out which I think is a real thing looking forward to your dune review take care.
I think that sandworm sequence in Dune was darkened down so much because it didn't look very realistic and it was probably a good decision to do so otherwise it would have taken us out of the movie. You've made me realize that the alteration to that scene probably caused the editors/graders to darken down the next 15 minutes or so to match it and that's where the problem was introduced. I dare say the director would have preferred to get that sandworm computer animation re-done but budget and pending release date wouldn't have permitted it.
As for Heat, there weren't any video cameras back then capable of shooting a movie. George Lucas changed how movies were made with Attack of the Clones in 2002 which looked like crap but nobody much noticed. Heat is a moody film and it was a film making choice to have it all dark and muted. For the 4K transfer, HDR was used to brighten up parts of the frame we should have been looking at and darken down other areas. At least, that's what I've learned from comments on here since making the video. The summary of that is that the film was darker in the cinema than it is on the 4K video disc. It's amazing what I can learn on here about how films were made after putting a video up. The next one will be Star Trek VI so it will be interesting to see what others can add to my knowledge of that one.
John.
Great review as ever John. Keep up the great work :)
A controversial 4K release but only because all other reviewers seem to have been too young at the time of its release and therefore had no recollection to refer back to. Fortunately for me (because of all the naysayers who did not want to accept the truth or the fact that they'd got this one wrong) two projectionists commented who had projected the 35mm prints when first released and confirmed I was right. I think I pinned one of those comments to the top which helped to shut up some people. If only there had been more film collectors around in 1994 maybe a few more of us would have taken note of how dark the film was in places. Oh well. As long as you're prepared for almost blacked out sequences this is another good 4K home video disc. All previous home video releases had the image brightened up which is what caused much of the confusion.
John.
Oh the joy of browsing around HMV/local video store /Forbidden Planet, sadly this streaming generation will never understand 😪
Now that you mention it McCord, I don't think many people who used to enjoy shopping in these stores quite understand now either as they prefer to have their homes devoid of any belongings. We certainly didn't get bored during the worst of the pandemic but I know a lot of people who did and that's because they threw out all their books,
videos and everything else that could have kept them entertained while things got sorted out.
John.
Morning John. I picked this up on Holiday. It's a great film. Another one I've had on different formats over the years: VHS, DVD, Blu-ray and now 4K, never got the laserdisc though. I haven't got around to watching it on 4K yet.
I hope your telly copies with the dark nature Steve as it is giving variable results. Most seem to be okay though but if it is a little too dark it won't be for too long. John.
Greetings from Canada 🇨🇦! Thanks for the in-depth review! I was a little put off from this movie because of the other reviewers I’ve seen. All of whom were complaining about darkness. I’ ve never seen Heat, but after your thoughts on it, I’ll be picking it up
Just be prepared that some scenes may appear to be too dark and you should be fine Jeremy. I think sometimes we don't expect that one film is going to look different from another. Heat was always dark but I can't be sure of how close the 35mm prints were compared to the 4K until such time as I manage to get my hands on a 35mm print. It does look like I remember it though.
John.
Great Review as always John, just got this from the UK a few days ago, i have not watched it for a long time and watched it today and was as great as i remember it being
I hadn't watched it since that cinema visit in 1996 Paul and I enjoyed it more this second time around. The climax being an hour from the end caused me some confusion back in 96 but now I know it's not the real climax helped me to focus on the rest of it.
Nice to have it on disc looking very much like a film.
John.
Hi John. Hope your well. Nice to hear you think Heat 4k resembles how it was originally released in Theatres. Great film and that ending choked me up.
I can't be certain that it's a replica of the 35mm release prints Danny but being able to remember that sequence with De Niro hiding in the shadows put me along that train of thought. It was a dark film and it looks to me like the creators of this disc have tried to match the film look. Whatever the case, it looks like a film and I couldn't ask for any more than that. Just be prepared that a lot of our home equipment is likely to display some of it too dark and then it should be okay. It's only for a few scenes here and there and at most a couple of minutes with the families in the bars/restaurants about 50 minutes in.
John.
Hi John, another great review sir!!!
Heat looks great on my tv but i think people with OLED displays are the ones having issues. I dont regret my purchase of this masterpiece.
Just wanted to inform you those hero ships in hmv are from eaglemoss who recently went out of business, if you want those alien ships you will have to be quick my friend.
Knowing how much you adore that movie compelled me to let yoylu know just that.
Its a real shame because their models are fantastic quality even if their customer service was lacking.
Hope you are well, looking forward to your next review.
I suspected it was going to be OLED tellies having the darkness problems but most OLED reports have been to say that they don't know what people were complaining about so it seems to be a general variability. My video projector could not resolve the darkest scenes as well as the telly which had no trouble at all. Some tellies are simply better than others but unless we all want to keep spending money on better equipment we just have to accept that not everything is going to look as good as we'd like all the time.
I didn't know the Eaglemoss name. No doubt HMV managed to buy up their bankrupt stock. I wish I'd looked at the price of that Sulaco model now. Don't know where I'd put it if I do get back there and can't resist but I expect I could hang it from the ceiling somewhere. I think I might actually prefer the chestburster model. Be fun to strap that to my chest and take a walk outside... probably best I leave that walk until October 31st though.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 😀😀😀
Thanks for the reply John, take care of yourself and keep up the good work.
John, please read this. Michael Mann explains what he changed in 4K Blu-ray release of Heat (from Entertainment Weekly):
-When it came to remastering the film for Blu-ray, were there specific sequences you focused on?
"Yeah, the whole film! When you go into Blu-Ray, and you go to 4K, you’re in a different color space. Meaning that what was magenta doesn’t translate exactly. There’s no logarithm you could use to make “magenta” still stay magenta, with that exact color. So you have to imagine everything, from contrast, to how black blacks are, to what the color palette is. *The ambition here was: If I was shooting the film two or three years ago, what would it look like? That was really it. So we went into every shot*."
-Your style in your more recent films has evolved from when you made Heat. Did that affect how you looked at this film?
"... Yes, I evolved, but also, audience perception evolves, and media evolves, year to year. *If I shot this film two or three years ago, this particular film would be less chromatic. And the sense of tension would become more pronounced with greater contrast and kind of a more blue-black palette, than the film as I wanted it to be when I shot it in ’94-’95*."
-Are there any moments in particular that bring up what you’re talking about, that as you’re working with the 4K, any sequence in the film that you think is seen anew on this definitive edition?
" The one that comes to mind is when Hanna is chasing Neil McCauley at the end of the film past the airport. *All that is a lot darker. Primary reds are stripped out. The reflections in the metal - everything is substantially darker, if I showed you the before and after. They’re big steps, they’re not subtleties*."
Additionally with Vanity Fair: “To make the drama and emotions accessible, I wanted to approach it as if I shot it two years ago. As an audience, we evolve in terms of our relationship to story-but the visual intake, and what these mean dramatically, emotionally, how we’re impacted, all of that evolves the way the medium evolves. If I were shooting this two years ago, there might have been more shadow on the actor’s face, more expressionistic with lighting, less chroma all over the place. Some visuals are quite beautiful; their visual attractiveness takes away the intensity from what’s happening between Pacino and De Niro. It can only be done digitally, it can’t be done photochemically. I can’t get into an image and decide I don’t want to see two eyes, I only want to see one eye, because that’s where the expression’s going to hit.”
Many people got hot under the collar about this release because they claimed it was too dark. It's understandable thought because that whole sequence with Robert De Niro in the shadows during the break-in was too dark. It was dark on the general release prints too. That's the part I remember but I wasn't sat with Michael Mann or the video editor for the recent re-grading for the latest video release. At least Michael Mann was there and wanted to clean things up as best he could which is quite remarkable after all these years. HDR means you can do a more accurate rendering for a video release and he was probably quite excited at the prospect of getting a few things sorted out.
Thanks for the information Alex. At least we all now know for sure that the latest video release of Heat is not too dark and people can stop worrying about it.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 thank you for the reply, John. I just wanted to send you these excerpts because it seemed you were unaware of the changes Mann intentionally chose to make for the release that made it different as opposed to similar to the 35mm print. He wasn't going for a master identical to his original. Now after watching the 4k disc myself, I agree that it's not too dark, and it's a very good looking film. I was worried before watching it that it would be too revisionist an approach by Mann. After watching it, I don't think it was. Thanks again for the reply.
@@weesnaww Thanks Alex. I was aware that he'd made a few changes but there was nothing that stood out to me to warrant all the vitriol that was being poured on this particular 4K release. The reason I remember the overall darkness is because that particular scene with De Niro hiding in the shadows had me thinking at the time that the print was exceptionally dark. I never forgot that so when everyone started asking me to take a look at the 4K because it was being reported as too dark, I did suspect it was because people had got used to seeing it on previous [inferior] video disc releases. Collateral has gone through similar attacks following its 4K release but compared to what went before on the home movie market, it looks good. John.
I haven't owned since DVD but I will be buying as it's one of my all time favourites - even with the negative hype. The cast, script, direction, score. The ending still hits hard. 10/10.
Just make sure there is no stray light in the screening room Phil because that could be one of the issues. I didn't think to try it with lights on or in daylight because I simply never would watch a film in anything but a dark room.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 Absolutely John. On the off-chance I get peace at night to watch something, the curtains are drawn, lights off. Look forward to checking it out.
@@philbxr I hope you have a great time with it. See if you can spot the sequence lifted straight out of Peter Yates's Bullitt which I meant to talk about but completely forgot. I think that film and Taxi Driver were a big influence on Heat.
John.
The 4k is definitely darker than the blueray, but personally that didn't spoil it for me, I could still see all I needed to and thoroughly enjoyed it and will always watch the 4k version now. It gives the movie a similar look and feel to Colatoral, another Michael Mann classic. If Mann did change the image specifically for this 4k release, maybe that was intention? Who knows. All I know is that it certainly doesn't spoil the movie for me!
I don't think he did ask for the look of the original film to be changed Mark, quite the opposite actually. It looks as I remember it albeit on home video and not a professional 35mm projector punching a really bright xenon lamp through a polyester film print with all the density and colour superiority that brings. John.
the HDR Optimizer feature on my Panasonic 4K player was able to bring Heat back up to similar brightness levels compared to the blu-ray version.
Sounds like an option a lot of movie enthusiasts could do with right now!
John.
Watched the 4K version last night on a LG G1 oled. Zero complaints 👌
Sound quality is fantastic!
A lot of people are finding the same thing Frank so it is definitely an equipment specific problem. Now I need to establish if it's player or telly/VP specific or a combination of the two. My own evidence is telly/video projector specific only.
John.
Thanks for your review, was looking forward to your take on it. Did you play around with the HDR settings on your Panasonic 4K player? I have the same player and I did adjust the HDR and it does help without messing with the black level too much. However, except for one or two scenes, the movie looks great in standard setting on my OLED tv. The scenes that bug me are the ones that are supposed to be in daylight but now look as if it was already dusk. The movie itself is a masterpiece to me.
I can't recall if the 35mm print of Heat I saw had the dusky look all the way through but it looks right to me on this 4K disc. Apparently some of the grading was played around with a bit to darken up areas that should have been darker but HDR was optimized to make the areas that should have been more visible look more visible.
I did check that HDR was on maximum and went through the other three standard settings but it was immediately obvious it had to be up full. Turning it off completely was an eye opener as without HDR the image quality is unwatchable. If nothing else, I think that confirms it's different to the Blu-ray.
John.
Great review John, just purchased Jaws, Shawshank Redemption and E.T. all on 4k from HMV on their 3 4k for £30 offer, just waiting for delivery now!!
Three great films. I don't have the 4K of E.T. but if I get to an HMV and can find two other titles I suspect I may have it soon. I missed it in one of their previous sales when it was going for a fiver! John.
@@moviecollector5920 a fiver?? Wow, cant get much for a fiver these days..
@@darkvader7231 It was the HMV on-line store and I got it into the basket but by the time I came to checkout they'd all sold out. Bummer!
Thanks for sharing John,I remember buying it on dvd back then so I’m assuming in the 1990’s,that looks like a great store,I normally don’t like films with dark scenes.
This one is going to vary greatly from system to system Paul but it does look like a film however dark it may display. I like it. Whether or not it's a close match to the 35mm prints I can't be sure but I do remember that one scene I mentioned and it was dark in the cinema. John.
@@moviecollector5920 Thanks for the info John I haven’t seen it in years though.
Another film I liked was The Bone Collector again it’s been a few years since I seen it too.
Cracking review as usual. Just for note JAWS is back in cinemas this September and E.T. running in IMAX cinemas 👍
Jaws is going to be a video projection although it should look great on the biggest screens around. It's not ideal for IMAX screen owing to the 2.40:1 aspect ratio but I'd happily sit in the BFI IMAX and soak it all up on their 90 foot wide screen. Couldn't give a monkeys that it can't be masked off properly when you get a film presented on a screen that size. What would get me out to the cinema to see it without any doubt would be a 70mm blow-up print but that's asking for too much these days.
John.
Nicevideo as always mate.ive still got my dvd of Heat and laser disc.
Greetings David. One comment has advised that the LaserDisc is similarly dark to the 4K disc and another comment has advised that he's ordered the LD to see if it's as dark as the LD. I'm sure it is dark but probably not quite as dark as the 4K because LD really couldn't have handled those levels well. It's good that there are others around who are curious about all this and interested enough to want to check the earliest viable iteration on the home movie market. VHS was never in the same league as LD and they were so variable so wouldn't tell us much.
John.
I just got the 4K disc for my birthday last week and trying it out on my LG OLED it looked stunning. I saw it at the local flicks on general release and I don't think it's too dark on this new disc; rather prior disc releases were a little too bright. A slight brightness / contrast adjustment on the TV should be all that's needed to suit personal taste, but I'm happy with it out of the box.
⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
My first impression of this 4K of Heat after I flicked through chapter openings most of the way through was "What are people talking about?" Now there are a couple of scenes that are darker than they should be on my video projector but those same scenes look fine on my telly. It's all down to different equipment and if this release hasn't taught us that after we all had similar with Dune but to a lesser degree then I don't know what will.
John.
that HMV store looks glorious. Will definitively visit next time I'm in the UK! 🙌😍
Bath is about 100 miles east of London but there are coaches and trains with the train going direct in about 80 minutes. So if you fly in to London you can do a day trip. In central London is the greatest video store in the land - FOPP. John.
great review i saw heat in the 90s have it on vcr dvd and that 2017 bluray have not got the 4k yet plus seen on tv many times
And I'd only ever seen it the once Steffy. As it turns out, that was to my advantage when it came to looking at this controversial 4K disc because I'm not sure a VHS or DVD release could have possibly risked trying to replicate the look of the original film prints because quite a few shots would have looked like they were blacked out. Blu-ray could probably handle it but 4K must come closest.
John.
Great review John. I’ve only just watched this (also bought from HMV), and on my LG OLED with disc playing on Oppo BluRay, the film looks awesome - not too dark at all. Contrast levels (and white balance) were all good, and at no stage did I think I needed to adjust any settings. Thanks for the great review and for balancing the other comments floating around. Great to revisit this film (I still have the original DVD), and see some fantastic acting and a good story - sorely missing from many of today’s films. Sad to see the cinemas struggling, and I fear that Cineworld going bust is a sign of things to come with little/no good, non-woke, output from Hollywood. Very thankful that I have a good physical media library that I can still enjoy!!
The reported results from the 4K of Heat have been mixed George but more have had a positive screening at home than a negative one. Heat was always dark and it seems that HDR gave the possibility of darkening down some background areas of the image and enhancing the central focus of a particular scene we should be looking at. So while it thankfully turned out that my recollection of struggling to see Robert De Niro in that one sequence I remember it is not exactly as it was on film, but having said that, no film released on any video format is ever going to look the same and for this one there was an attempt to improve some sequences. I'm just glad that I pretty much got it right because I knew I was sticking my neck out.
I really do fear for the future of cinema now more than I ever have. I think there will be a backlash from the world's top directors because I can imagine the disappointment of putting your heart and soul into a major movie project only to be told at the end of it that it's going straight to telly/streaming rather than getting a theatrical release. We need these top directors to start insisting on exclusive cinema releases before they sign a contract to direct a movie. That would at least give cinemas a chance because without any product to screen they haven't got a chance.
John.
Thanks again for another fine review. Heat is a great - if still slightly imperfect - film, and I enjoyed watching it on this 4K disc. The detail is very good and it's currently the best way to watch the film. But I do agree with those who say it's too dark, especially as it's not *really* neo noir, and to me this doesn't suit the tone of the film. Daylight scenes have an artificially dusky look to them, and some night scenes are inexplicably dark. That said I am watching on an LG OLED, on which blacks are as black as can be, so maybe a backlit LED or a projected image would be different. On the whole, though, to my mind it's not the best example of the format.
It is how the film was made James but some extra work was done with HDR to make some dark bits stand out a bit more than they did back in 1995/96. Fortunately we have enough enthusiasts on here and former projectionists to get to the full story which is a good thing in one way but it was a bit of an uncertain time for me because I was telling everyone it looked like it should to me and I might have been wrong... but fortunately I wasn't. My memory was actually correct and I've pinned the most relevant comment to the top to back that up.
Some OLED owners are reporting it's dark on their telly but some are saying it's perfect. It seems it's a general telly/video projector specific problem and some are better at displaying dark content than others. When you next change your telly you should find that the 4K of Heat is as perfect as it can get.
John.
Another top notch video thanks John. I would be interested in hearing your views on the 4k release of the Green Mile. One of my favourite films which I am yet to upgrade.
Thank you Colin. I haven't seen the 4K of The Green Mile which I have had on DVD since it first came out. I like the film but not that much I'm afraid. Love Mr. Jangles though. He was the star of that show.
John.
Takes me back to my youth in Chicago when Blockbuster Video was around. Just wondering where do you live Because I seen you walking into a video store that looked nice. When you purchased "Heat" would like to vist the town. Loved your review of
"Carlito's Way" P.S. I enjoy your opening credits and I also love flim Grain! 🎥 God bless you!
That branch of HMV is in Bath Joe and that is one of the most beautiful cities in England. The great thing is that if you're in America and you fly into London you can visit FOPP in the West End (the greatest music and video store in the UK) and Bath is about 100 miles west of London and only just over an hour on the train... providing they're not on strike! Two of the greatest cities in the world in one hit. If you do come over, let me know and we'll try to meet up somewhere.
John.
Cant wait to pick it up, great review thank you !
I hope it works well on your system Hunter. Maybe a couple of scenes will still look a little too dark either way but it is down to our different systems and not a problem with the 4K disc. John.
Great job John 👍👍👍...il stick to my 4k masterd blu ray....😁
It's the same apart from a bit of HDR Roy so I'd do the same.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 yea exactly.... won't notice the extra resolution unless been projected.
Michael Mann doesn't grade it to match as closely as possible 35mm prints, he even said that. He aims to make his old films look contemporary like they were released yesterday. So he tinkers with everything from editing to color grading and in this case also darkening the film generally as well as boosting shadows for impresionistic image he wanted to achieve.
That makes sense. It was still very dark in the cinema - or at least, that sequence I recall was an eye strainer. We've now had a projectionist who screened the film in 1996 confirm that it was indeed a dark film in the cinema and he swapped studios so another projector could try to punch more light through it but to no avail.
John.
I can't believe you're the only one that's referenced this... Mann has deliberately chosen to modify his restorations from the original releases.
We greatly appreciate your reviews!!!!!
Thank you. John.
Great vid as always and i learnt alot. I got my 4k steelbook of heat a few weeks ago and havent watched it yet so thats my weekend sorted. Great. Excelsior sir :-) been a bit short the last 2 weeks on steelbook releases but got crimes of grinderwald on wednesday so might also watch that :-)
I hope Heat works as well through your system as it does through my telly delboy because I wouldn't have noticed a single scene that could have been construed as too dark on that. My video projector didn't cope as well but there were only a few minutes that were a struggle. Best of luck and have a great double bill show this weekend.
John.
I had this on VHS, back when they see started to to release some films in wide-screen is on VHS (it came in a fancy box as a prestige release). I later had it on DVD, and naturally on Blu-ray... So I'll get the 4K eventually but not rushing for it, double/triple-dipping the same movies is something I'm a sucker for but I'm old enough to feel guilty about it - at least 4K seems like it'll be the last time for all that nonsense.
Lovely video as always, John. I don't know if it would interest you, but Kino's 4K releases of Kubrick's Killer's Kiss and The Killing are really superb, albeit not cheap as they have to be imported from Stateside. Outstanding picture quality so worthy of your attention if you are fond of the films (I love film noir).
I'm not sure there will be much difference between the 4K and the Blu-ray Ian so you may be a little underwhelmed but you never know. If you have the 'Director's Definitive Edition' then it's from the same 4K transfer as the 4K disc anyway it's just that most of it looks slightly better on the 4K. Whether or not it's worth spending yet more money on is open to question but maybe in a year or so you'll see a copy singing like a bird (cheap cheap).
I do like Kubrick films but some more than others. I've never actually seen Killer's Kiss or The Killing so I would be interested but can't really shell out a load more money just yet. I think I need a rich benefactor!
John.
@@moviecollector5920 yes prudence is the word for this year, I'm certainly being careful. Yesterday I bought the second Hitchcock 4K set because it was reduced in a sale but I still felt guilty about it. The new title announcements these days make me more nervous than excited!
@@iansmith6166 I think we all need rich benefactors to fuel our enthusiasm for the new 4K movies. It's wonderful that so many new titles are coming out though. It's a good sign that home movies are here to stay... for a while at least.
John.
Heat is one of my all time favourites, loved it at the cinema on original release, but strangely have only ever bought it on dvd. Was really looking forward to upgrading to the 4k disc but as a lot of the reviews mentioned how dark it was I wasn't going to get it. After your review though, and the fact that I'm about to upgrade my projector, I may have to bite the bullet and get it anyway. I'll see how the new pj does with some other dark films first. As ever though a great review.
My video projector didn't cope well with the sequence around the robbers families and the police families meeting in bars/restaurants but other than that I probably wouldn't have thought much of the dark look to the film. Try to get the best contrast ratio you can afford in a new projector and you'll stand a better chance of feeling like you're watching a film rather than a home video. Best of luck with it. A great film and it looked just about perfect on my telly so it's a variable thing dependent on equipment.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 I've currently got the Sony vpl-270es native 4k projector which I've had since 2019 and for the most part it's been excellent. It's just sometimes it doesn't appear to handle HDR that well with some films having a washed out look, and that's in a dedicated basement cinema room with no external light getting in, and yet on other films it can be absolutely stunning. Anyway I'm swapping it out for the newer vpl-xw5000es which is 25% brighter and has their x1 chip for improved video processing so hopefully should see some improvement.
I still remember back in 95 that this movie and Casino were released weeks apart here in Toronto. What a 1 -2 punch. I was too young to watch in the theaters, but did watch on VHS and Television and was blown away by both. It's a well known fact Nolan is heavily influenced by Heat.
I didn't know that about Christopher Nolan Mandeep so I've learned something today. I saw Casino in the cinema but didn't like it much. I don't tend to like gangster films and it was the dig your own grave to be murdered by baseball bats that I really struggled with in Casino. However, I could look at Sharon Stone all day long so it wasn't all a complete struggle.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 That's right..Nolan based the robbery scene in Dark Knight on the bank heist in Heat. Yep, peak Sharon Stone in the early 90s ;)
@@TheBanwait8 Aha, it's the same actor in the bank in The Dark Knight as the chap who was inadvertently stolen from in Heat. That explains his bit part in The Dark Knight. As for Sharon Stone, I think she's more beautiful today than she ever was. John.
@@moviecollector5920 Yes, the same actor is in both...Nolan is a big Mann fan.
Have been waiting for your review.
Thank you John. 🙏🏻
It's going to be variable on different systems Cheekster but just make sure the room is black to watch it and you may have as good an experience as I and many others with this one.
John.
Absolutely nailed it John, fully agree with you 100%.
Not everyone is going to agree with us on this one but I tried my best to explain why that would be. You can't win 'em all!
John.
Different strokes for different folks.
I’m not as concerned about too dark, what I am concerned about is color grading. From what I’ve seen, the sky is and whites in day seem to have a gray filter. The previous Blu-ray is a bluer sky and white whites. Please compare and comment on this. Great vid as always!
Yes, the 4K does look more realistic Jeff. I expect it's HDR giving the more accurate look. The Blu-ray is good and actually looks better than the 4K in some scenes that I saw but overall the 4K is better as usual.
Excellent review keep up the good work.
Thank you blackme1.
Great movie great cast. Great review John.
Thank you sin gin. John.
wow HMV looks great. Just got back from USA and came away with 12 4k blurays not released in Australia. I can say phryical store in USA were bone dry most of the time for 4k Blurays.
Coming to UK in a month or so and look forward to getting another batch of 4k blurays.
If you're coming into London then you need to head for FOPP about fifty yards from Cambridge Circus in the West End. I shot a video in there earlier this year so if you haven't seen that you're in for a treat. The most successful video and music outlet in the UK. Bring a lot of money with you cos' you'll need it!
John.
Howdy John,
So I have the original widescreen release of heat on laserdiscs coming in the post so I should be able to see if they tweaked it for original home release which might be causing people to be upset.
I know the original Batman had this similar noise due to the original releases brightening up the image so you could see more clearly in the black.
I recon that since heat is also a WB movie that they did the same. You can get Batman to match the 4K in colors by just lowering the brightness on your display.
Hopefully I’ll have an answer to that when I get my LD in.
Just speaking on the 4K the opening scene is all you need to see to know it’s a great transfer. If only it was on a 100g discs with a little more room for the file than it could have been less compressed but regardless of the cheaper discs used I loved the film and transfer.
Does note to be the director’s edition so interested to see if any changes in the edit happen when I watch the original release.
Cheers John and I hope you’re having a great week. Need to find myself a UK copy of the prestige with a slipcover. They pressed new discs in the uk while Disney cheapened out in the US for it.
I think The Prestige is a better looking 4K disc than Heat but Heat is very good in spite of how it displays on some systems. The LaserDisc may well indicate that a low contrast print was used for earlier home movie releases. Let's face it, with even my most rose-tinted spectacles on LD was hardly going to be able to cope with the dark levels of Heat so I do expect it to look somewhat brighter and probably more contrasty too.
My review of the 1989 Batman had people telling me it was a mess because too much 'teal' had been put into it. 'Teal'! Who on earth uses that word to describe having too much blue in it? Someone coming across as clever must have made this statement and others got on the bandwagon. It did not have too much blue in it here, the definition was outstanding and the density was just about perfect. How could anyone complain after all the work that had gone into that one?... But they did.
John.
Hey John, Incredible😳You have a photograph memory of what a 25 year old movie looks like in theater 🧠lol🍻
Only that one scene as I explained which is a shame as other more historic films are more definitely imprinted on my memory. Yes, I've been a film nut for a long time but actually collecting film gave me an appreciation of how films looked in the cinema. Something that video never would have done up until recently.
John.
I saw it originally in the movie theaters. It was ok. But thanks for the review John.
I felt it was too long when I saw it on first release. Climax in the middle was the problem but fine with it now that I know. John.
I’ve been in two minds whether to buy this disc, despite loving the film, because of the negative comments. But I think I’m going to go for it. My favourite Michael Mann film is Collateral, but again that 4K disc has had some negative feedback… Thanks as ever for the interesting videos!
I was going to review the 4K of Collateral but never got around to it. It's actually a good 4K disc but you have to bear in mind that most of it was shot on video and I think HD video at that so it never looked brilliant. I think the night club sequence was 35mm so that will probably stand out to you and make the rest of it feel somewhat sub-standard. 'Heat' on the other hand has no such problems but everyone who reviewed this 4K disc made the common mistake of basing their reviews on previous home video releases. 4K UHD releases have to be based on the original 35mm and how a film looked in cinemas. This was one I remembered owing to it being so dark and dense. Previous home video releases were brightened up but the 4K has now sorted all those errors.
John.
Thanks for that - I think I’m going to get them both on 4K as I currently only have them on dvd. Really appreciate you taking the time to reply.
@@RB-mq6em I fancy watching Collateral again RB which is a sign of how much I like that film. The 4K would need a bit of scrutiny to do a full review though which can take away some of the enjoyment so maybe I should just watch it. Expect HEAT to appear dense to the point of almost nothing visible. This is how it was in the cinema and if you look at the comments (I think I have one from a projectionist at the time pinned to the top) you'll see that my memory of this wasn't flawed. Grading a film print is a little different to grading a digital video though so Michael Mann was able to perfect how he wanted it to appear this time around. Some of it is a little darker as a result and some apparently a little brighter. Essentially though, it's what we saw (or didn't see with regard to some scenes!) in cinemas across the world.
John.
That’s good to know and really interesting- thanks. My first memory of Heat is from the VHS when it first came out, so I’m sure the 4K will be a big improvement on that! I like to support 4K physical releases when I can as I don’t like the idea of studios relying solely on streaming in the future so will definitely buy copies of both next time I’m out. I hope you enjoy Collateral when you get round to watching it again.
Nice review, John. I don't think I'll be upgrading to 4K, but it's always good to hear your thoughts on great films.
I still remember the ripple of excitement that went through the theater when Bobby and Al finally met face to face.
I can't think of any two actors working today that would generate that much excitement in an audience simply by sitting in a booth and talking. It was electric.
And the two of them clearly enjoyed doing it too Bill. There's a later film with the two of them playing police detectives but it wasn't the best movie ever made. Still enjoyed it though even if the pair of them were long past their best by then. Heat was probably when they were at their respective peaks.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 I agree, John. Heat was prime Deniro/Pacino.
I've never seen Righteous Kill because the reviews were pretty mixed, but I thought they redeemed themselves nicely with their work in The Irishman (despite the dodgy de-aging)
The 'Bank Manager' awaits your visit ! haha
Just as well he's such a nice chap!
Thanks John for another great review. I think people.were used to the colour on the 2009 Blu-ray so when the new scan came out in 2017 it was quite a difference. I'll probably pick it up when it goes on offer as I do love the film. Also Michael Mann approved this transfer.
I'm wondering if you have The Godfather Trilogy on 4k? This was another one that caused a bit of controversy as the colour was changed a bit from the 2007 restoration. I had the privilege to see all three back in the cinema for the 50th anniversary. I did pick up the lovely deluxe set and skipped through a few scenes and it did look fantastic and faithful to what I seen at the cinema.
I've only ever seen the first two Godfather films Peter and as much as I can they're are great films they're just not my cup of tea... or at least, they weren't but perhaps I'll enjoy them a lot more when I watch them again. I have them on LaserDisc so that might be a more accurate representation of the original look as they'd have most likely been transferred from 35mm prints. Might have been low contrast prints though now that I think about it. At least with Heat I'd seen it in the cinema and had a recollection of it being dark so I had a starting point. For The Godfather films I'd be almost completely in the dark!
John.
@@moviecollector5920 I fully understand. There are some films I know are masterpieces but just don't click with me too and then there are others that are critically panned that I can find great enjoyment.
Are there any upcoming releases you're particular excited about or wishing will come to 4K? I really hope Once Upon a Time in The West gets the 4K treatment.
Your channel is different from the others because of the detail you go into. You state what you see and avoid hyperbole about whether the disc pops off the screen. Always welcome to hear your thoughts
@@PeterMcCluskey You might have noticed that I never use the word 'pop' to describe anything about the image quality. I've had some success in getting others to use 'vibrant', vivid' and 'rich' to more accurately describe colours because 'the colours pop' is meaningless and it drives me up the wall.
I see that Highlander is coming out in 4K soon and that is one of my favourite films. The trouble is though that I have all my favourite films already and many of them on Super 8 and a few on 35mm so it's difficult to generate enthusiasm for a home video release. I can't really think of any that would I would like to see on 4K but I can say that all the best discs have come from large format film so anything shot on genuine IMAX, 65mm for 70mm release, VistaVision, genuine Cinerama (but there's only two feature films that meet that criteria) and Super Technirama would be my preferred choices. What you will find is though that any of these films that have already had good Blu-ray releases will already look better than most 4K releases. If HDR had have been applied to Blu-ray I dare say we wouldn't have noticed any difference at all between a Blu-ray and a 4K from the same video master.
Rollerball is one film I'd like to have the 4K disc of but I didn't fancy the big box German release.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 Glad I'm not the only one that's irritated by pop!
From my short time since upgrading to 4K the best transfers have been Lawrence of Arabia and Vertigo. Like you say 65mm and VistaVision is going to be hard to beat.
Thanks again for taking time to respond to my comments. You're a gentleman.
This review has completely changed my mind. I wasn't going to get it because of how dark it was reported to be. But if it's meant to be that way, then it's worth getting.
We have been able to confirm through all the reports on here Chad that the results are variable on different systems which is what I suggested in the review. Whatever the result on yours Heat was a dark film when it was on general release in late 1995/early 1996. I've pinned a comment to the top to confirm that my memory of that one sequence I remember was not at fault.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 Thanks. Yeah I’m aware every set up is different. Your memory and that comment is good enough for me.
Thank you so much for your thoughts on this!
It took a lot of looking at but I really couldn't find anything wrong with it, other than it's an attempt to replicate a film that was always dark onto a home video. A bit of a tall order but if they'd have gotten a bit more light into just a handful of scenes then perhaps all the controversy might have been avoided. I really like the look of it though so it's fine as far as I'm concerned.
John.
It's hard to judge UHD by stills, compressed by UA-cam, but what stood out for me, is the difference in color grading, with the sky no longer being blue on this UHD, everything more brownish.
I haven't seen it in theaters, but compared to Blu-ray, it looks worse. I surely wish they'd just release higher resolution, higher bitrate UHD discs without messing with colors, or HDR. Like there used to be two versions on Laserdisc, VHS, and DVD - pan&scan, and widescreen. One '4k' could have Horrible Darkening Recoloration, and the other be the same transfer as on DVD or BD, only using the higher space and resolution of the format. 😄
Well all I can say is that here Lenny the 4K looks best. I can't be sure that the colour grading of the original 35mm release prints has been replicated exactly but it was certainly a dark film in the cinema. No other previous video format had the filmic capabilities of 4K so I think that this time there was an attempt to match the look of the film on home video. Asking for trouble with a film as dark as Heat of course but it was fine here. Not so fine on other peoples systems though.
John.
I agree with you one hundred percent, I too saw it in cinema in 96 and remember it oolking very similar to this excellent transfer.i really enjoyed it on my 83 inch oled.ive owned dvd and both blu rays and this transfer is best transfer of heat I've seen, very cinematic
I'd only ever seen it in the cinema Daniel and the fact that I remembered that scene where you could barely see Robert De Niro was the ideal memory to tackle this review. I didn't need the DVD as the clips in the 'making of' extra feature showed me what that looked like and it seemed very similar to me. I see clues all over Heat to indicate to anyone viewing it that it's intentionally dark but the fact is that film is one thing and home video equipment is another. Put a 2Kw xenon lamp through a 35mm print and you've got a pretty good starting point. Put a replica on a home video disc and the results are going to vary greatly. I feel like I've just seen the film again and I don't always say that with a 4K or a Blu-ray.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 absolutely. I too feel as though I've just seen the film for the first time,and I definitely agree that those thar are complaining its too dark are perhaps not viewing on right equipment and also are not familiar with the way it was originally filmed as well as directors intent.michael Mann has a generally very stylised approach which I really like and I feel this transfer was not only faithful to his intent but is also a very subtle yet beautifully rendered transfer
@@danieltuval8879 Judging by the comments Daniel it seems that quite a few of us really like the look of Heat on this 4K disc.
I’ll be waiting on that 4K of Heat to drop in price. WB has putting a few of their catalog 4K titles and some newer releases on Black Friday deals the last couple of years.
Yes, it's not the best quality film and never was but I had so many requests to look at this one it was a good excuse to support another new release and in a small way to support the 4K disc market. John.
Great review !
I should have included some 'dark' humour.
Finally someone who thinks Heat should be colour timed darker the problem was the bluray wss brighter and that started a comparison when the correctly colour timed 4k came out Michael Mann supervised it Michael Mann films tend to be dark. I had no problems with it the more cinema like for me the better HDR doesn’t mean brighter.
We're on the same hymn sheet then. I remember the film being dark in the cinema so I appreciate the people responsible for this disc attempting to replicate the look of the original film prints. You can't ask for more than that and I expect that in years to come, after much improvement in home video equipment, we'll look at this 4K and not even notice that it's a dark film.
John.
Hi John! Hmmm I think I'm going to just go for this one as you say that in your opinion the critics are a bit too harsh here? Those who love it love it alot. I think this is a unique one as the hype and build up and waiting that we've had to endure for this film in particular may have some of our expectations just a bit disappointed! That being said our systems do differ as you say so i'm optimistic about a double dip here. I just love this film for many reasons. It's the first film my wife and I sayw together when we were first dating . Also a big fan of Mann as a director too so off I go to find this one! Not sure if you commented on the sound qualities on the disk? Ps thanks for introducing Double bill Movies as well I've enjoyed Trevor's content so far! Cheers for now D in BC!
Trevor's just like his persona in the videos Dave and you'll find you can ask him anything. A valuable source for all us home movie disc collectors who I hope has made us all a bit more appreciative of the work that goes into issuing a single disc for us to collect... even if we do sometimes think they may be a little too expensive.
The Blu-ray in this pack has 'Director's Definitive Edition' printed on it so if you already have that then it's from the same video master as the 4K disc. You therefore may not see much difference. Of the scenes I saw on the Blu-ray, I thought some may have looked better than the 4K but overall the 4K has a better look. It may be worth holding off for a while to see if you can get the 4K a bit cheaper because I think many collectors are unhappy with it and may sell their copies. The sound during the downtown gunfight is great. That was all I mentioned I think. The action sequences aren't too many but when they're on screen the sound is pretty fabulous so you shouldn't be disappointed. Most of the film is quite quiet though because it's more of a drama than anything else. I like it. When the action comes in you certainly know about it.
John.
I have the original 2009 blu ray; is this worth an upgrade? it looked ok to me and the film is more about character id say than visual flair
It's not the best 4K disc you're ever going to see and there isn't much difference to the Blu-ray from that same master first issued in 2017 so you're probably right to stick with the BD that you have. Then again, if you see the 4K singing like a bird anywhere (cheap cheap) then it might be worth a go. John.
4k in HDR really depend on your TV, a lot of them look way too dim on TVs that dont get super bright. Die Hard and Prince of Darkness looked really dim in HDR on my 2017-2018 samsung and sony 4ks but i got a 2020 vizio quantum and they do not look dim now because that tv can get bright enough for the HDR
The more comments we're getting about all this is confirming the conclusion that it's mainly down to the display. A few have pointed out that the top Panasonic models have the facility to optimize HDR for the darkest films which will help some but overall it's down to the telly or video projector. Thanks for your conclusions V1deo Hunter.
John.
I have been put off getting heat due to the dark issues reported you may have just swayed me 😄
Some equipment isn't going to fully cope with it all but if you expect that a few scenes will be a struggle then you shouldn't be too disappointed. Other than many having that problem with some scenes it's got good definition for most of it and very good definition for a lot of it. The darker scenes are softer but that's how the camera works.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 thanks its just a bit of a relieve it doesn't seem a botched release John. I am due an upgrade my max screen size is 86" so debating a oled TV or the new Sony 4k projector the projector will cost more but a friend of mine has a oled which just broke after running out of warranty which scares me..also how do you get rid of a 84" oled if you need to move it on ! I have saved hard for the next upgrade after sticking with my DLP projector for 10years I really want a native 4k TV or pj
Mann also overlooked the 2019 blu-ray transfer of the film, and many reviewers are using that transfer as the comparison point.
The Blu-ray isn't as good so that's an important point Jeffrey. It's better here and there but overall the 4K is superior as usual. John.
I think I'll stick with the Blu-Ray definitive edition of HEAT fantastic film with an awesome 5.1 surround track.
I think that's a good idea Matt. They look almost identical but overall the 4K is better even if some scenes appear to look better on the Blu-ray. John.
I do think Mann commented that he graded it based on how we would do it now. That being said, I have the 2009 Warner Blu-ray and I don’t think that’s necessarily more accurately graded. I’m honestly at a loss what to do since I’m seeing so many mixed reactions to the transfer.
Home video is different to a 35mm film print being run through a projector with a whopping great xenon lamp punching the light through it. To replicate the look of the 35mm for such a dark film will cause problems for a lot of home equipment out there. Having said that, it seems that equipment is improving and once we're back to being close to the capabilities of CRT then we may all look at this 4K and wonder what all the fuss was about. It looks spot on all the way through on my telly and there's nothing particularly special about my telly so you could well be alright. Video projection isn't as good as it doesn't have the same contrast capabilities as the telly so some of the blacks in Heat are a bit grey but nothing ever matches having a big screen even if it's a bit dark at times like Heat.
John.
No issues with Heat on 4k for me. It's going to depend on your equipment setup and viewing environment though. We can't always assume that HDR equals a brighter more colorful image...it's always up to the creator.
I agree Mozart. This one doesn't have that distinctive orangey HDR look but turn that HDR off and you certainly see the difference. Looks like very good work to me. Film on a disc once again. Wonderful.
John.
Greetings! Loving your videos as always. I was just wondering what's happening with that Star Wars video you promised us all a while back?, been looking to seeing it.
That Star Wars video is going to take a lot of work Timothy so I'll probably need up to five days to get all that sorted and shot. Heat was a quckie. If you take out the hours and hours of looking at the discs I only spent about eight hours planning it, shooting it and putting it all together.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 wow! I understand. Thanks for the explanation. Saw your review of The Batman. I prefer 1989 Batman myself,but your review was very interesting. I was once a professional critique myself.
I saw it 2015 on 35mm in a small theater. Don't remember it that it was that dark honestly?! I have a copy on laserdisc too which isn't dark aswell...
The LD most likely came from a low contrast master to alleviate the dark nature that home equipment would not have been able to resolve. We've had confirmation that Heat always was a dark film and I've pinned the most relevant comment to the top. However, it's also been confirmed that areas of the screen in each dark sequence were darkened even more but the element of each scene we were supposed to be focused on was brightened up slightly. This was possible only due to HDR. The basic summary is that this 4K disc is the closest representation we've had on home video of what we saw in cinemas in 1995/6 when film projectors with multi-kilowatt xenon lamps were punching the light through the film prints.
John.
Hi, could you please check on the menus to see if there are additional languages not mentioned on the slipcover? Saw another review where French/Français and Deutsch/German were included but not listed on the packaging… Need to confirm before buying the UK edition. Many thanks and great review :)
It has French, Spanish, German, Italian and something else that's hieroglyphs so presumably Japanese.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 Great, thanks for the speedy reply!
Just curious, did you check out the 1080p remastered version afterwards to see if you preferred that one in terms of brightness?
It was quite a while ago now Frank but I do always look at the Blu-ray so I wish I could recall why I didn't mention it. The 4K is excellent though and accurate to the original theatrical prints but it has been confirmed that the final product this time around had Michael Mann sat with the video editors/graders and had them lighten up and darken down slightly here and there. It wasn't possible to be so accurate with the photo chemical process when this was made so it's now as close as possible to how he wanted it. I believe there was a lot of controversy about this release because others had claimed it was too dark but thankfully that's not the case. To be fair, most video reviewers are used to previous video releases and they were usually taken from low contrast prints specifically for displaying on tellies of the time so it's understandable this one was called out incorrectly as it was such a dark film. With the advent of HDR and screens that can handle it, it's now possible to reproduce the film look on video and that's what we have with the 4K of Heat.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 , thanks John for the super fast and detailed reply. I understand exactly what you're saying. I was just curious whether you had any thoughts on the remastered 1080p version (overseen by Michael Mann) from 2017, I believe the 1080p version included with the 4K release.
Some people on online forums have mused whether Michael Mann oversaw only the 2017 remastered 1080p (which is allegedly darker than previous home releases) and that Disney simply botched HDR grading for the 4K without the involvement of the director.
In any case, I appreciate your input. If you recall that the film was as dark as this new 4K release in the cinema upon release, then I think that's a reasonable gauge to go by.
I have only seen 'Heat', first on VHS, then the 2009 blu-ray, both low contrast releases. However, from another reviewer on UA-cam, some comparison still shots between the 2017 remaster on 1080p and the 4K of 'Heat' both look excellent to my eyes, and although I've yet to buy it on 4K, I think the darker 4K images looked superior, with 1080p 2017 version looking excellent but a touch blown out in daylight shots. I reckon I'll snap this up from a 2 for £25 4K deal from HMV and see for myself.
@@SagaciousFrank Another thing to bear in mind is that people get more views when they are clearly going to slag something off. I don't know why that is but people seem to like to criticize and moan about something. I don't remember too much about Heat in the cinema but I always remembered that scene with Robert De Niro hiding in the shadows during the heist. I couldn't believe how dark it was and I came away wondering if it was unique to that print or whether the lamp on the projector was on the way out. I've pinned a comment to the top of this list of comments from a projectionist back then who checked the lamp in his projector by switching the print into another studio. It was the same. I didn't have a problem with the dark aspect to the film on this 4K disc but I was expecting it to be dark after seeing it in the cinema many years before. Others will have made their judgement from earlier home video releases as we've discussed. You can't blame them as it's what they've known whereas I've always preferred the look of film and I still watch a lot of film so I'm used to the look. Video has been different to film until the advent of HDR.
John.
I wasn't gonna buy this movie on 4k because of what people have been saying about the darkness. But now with your comments I think I will👍
The results are going to vary but I really put it to the test and I think all the naysayers are wrong but they have a point. Had I have been watching it on my telly I wouldn't even have thought about the dark nature of how it was shot throughout the entire film. I hope you find the same things David.
John.
The film's cinematographer, Dante Spinotti in the Reunion Q&A that Christopher Nolan did says that the film has never looked better than in the 4K as you have more control over the colours and shadows, and you can reveal what's in the far background. He says he viewed the 35mm at the same time as doing the 4K and the latter is visibly better.
Well then, if only all of us had have managed to get through the whole of that Q&A like you did David then we'd have all been better informed. Mind you, Dante Spinotti would have been seeing the 4K on professional equipment so no doubt it looked better for him than it does for all of us watching at home.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 It's a really interesting watch and great to see the contributors all together. There's an interestingly spirited disagreement between him and Nolan over what Spinotti says. Nolan, who of course eschews Digital for film says the 35mm is just as good, to which Spinotti tells him "You're not in the cave, anymore" Nolan replies "I'm going to respectfully ignore that".
Love this film along with Collateral from Michael Mann.
Collateral was excellent. One of Tom Cruise's best ever roles I think. But I seem to recall that one was shot on video and that's why it's a bit lacking to look at. I may be wrong. John.
@@moviecollector5920 You are correct. I still enjoy the look of the film but not much of a leap over the standard Bluray.
@@themtgdude486 What a great ending Collateral has though. I know it was set up earlier in the film and it was a bit obvious it was coming but I just thought it was beautiful.
@@moviecollector5920 Absolutely. Are you a fan of Mann’s other films as well? Mohicans, Insider, Thief?
I have this movie on Laserdisc. Unfortunately it was the only time I have ever watched this movie but the shootout in L.A was the best scene in the movie IMO.
It still is the best Scott but the reproduction of the Bullitt shoot out at the ariport is pretty good too. John.
For Heat UHD played on Panasonic UB820 / 9000 players I recommend everyone to go to Optimum HDR Settings menu and set "Dynamic Range Adjustment" to +12 and "Brightness" to -4 or -5. It looks amazing now.
Sounds like a good excuse to get one of those players to me Peter, but I must resist!
John.
@@moviecollector5920 It's an advice for OLED owners mostly, or just anyone who thinks Heat looks too dim on UHD.
The fact that you had to make big adjustments just emphasises how broken the brightness levels are here. I've never seen a 4k hdr transfer this abnormaly dim.
@@kona328WH I don't have a problem with HDR presentation looking like SDR (for example Blade Runner 2049 looks stunning), the thing is to me Heat looks wrong even for SDR standards. It's just flat and uneven. With my settings the daylight scenes look like they are taking place during, well, a day and night scenes have great contrast.
This is the first UHD I had to correct with my own settings.
@@peterm.4355 All our systems are different chaps. I didn't adjust anything. I did try changing a few things on the video projector but the optimum was where it was all set to start with. It's a dark film and one day our home video equipment will be able to match how it looked in the editing suite when it was graded. That's a few years away yet but one manufacturer did claim to have a professional frat screen monitor that was as close to CRT quality as anyone had ever achieved recently so we're getting there... or getting back there is probably more accurate.
John.
A first time for me - I sold my 4K steelbook soon after watching this new transfer. I just prefer how it looks on the previous Special Edition blu-ray.
Same! I don't like the new tea after, I wonder what Michael Manns view is
I think he wanted it to look like the original film prints but I'm not sure that's a good idea for home video equipment as the contrast levels simply don't match film. Looks very good on my telly but not quite so good on the video projector and I mean in terms of contrast capability there because there's no way a telly ever matches the impact of projecting onto the biggest surface available.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 I suspect it would look fine on a display with a higher brightness output than my OLED (a QLED or similar) but alas I'm stuck with what I've got. What bakes my noodle is that "Dune" looks SUPERB. So strange.
PS Did you have any luck finding a 4K copy of "Lawrence of Arabia" yet?
@@danhardcastle I've got Lawrence of Arabia, and wow it's looks like you would expect, absolutely mind-blowing. Also recently received from US Raging Bull 4k by Criterion which is the best £27 I've ever spent, the picture is absolutely incredible. Another US import worrh considering The Good, the Bad & the Ugly, absolutely superb transfer. Maybe they'll get UK releases one day but no sign on the horizon & they are two of my favourite films!
@@moviecollector5920 I think this is the first film ever that I've preferred the Blu-ray to the 4K. But you're right the limiting factor could just be home equipment is not up to the job. Another 4K which is very dark but just about bearable is Donnie Darko. Interestingly, like Dan, Dune is really bright on my OLED (which is now 5 years old, considering an upgrade)