Why aren't you using Fastify? Or Koa? Or NestJS?
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- Express.js dominates the Node.js framework landscape. It seems as if almost every Node.js developer is using it.
But why is that the case?
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I am using NestJS. Express is simple. But, you have to build an architecture around it when building more sophisticated applications. Whereas NestJS just takes care of everything out of the box.
NestJS is fantastic!
Yes, Nest Js follow SOLID principle.
Long time React&Express user, Nest made me forget about express in minutes literally. I even got the occasion to use Angular after all the negative content I heard about but man Angular and Nest is a match made in heaven, so productive to work with those two. If you read this and you want to build enterprise grade apps, learn Next you won't go back to express.
I like Nest a lot. Its very similar to Spring Boot (Java), so if you have experience using that, its a no brainer.
same thought here. well said.
I’m sad that Adonis didn’t quite take off yet. It is a great framework
The community is active and it is always improving. Adonis is great.
@@megatechbody3207 Many more tutorials on UA-cam about AdonisJS are needed; as of today, there is barely any content.
The same reason that in enterprise projects people use Spring Boot and not e.g. Micronaut / Helidon etc. It's the most developed one, the most battle tested one, has the most documentation etc.
As for the reason this dev doesn't use express (or any Node backend for that matter), lies in the previous personal experience and the state of current workplace, a mostly Java oriented shop where backend is concerned, therefore a Spring Boot place (couldn't even persuade higher ups for the value of Quarkus, an arguably far better and streamlined experience, or even standardized JEE - Jakarta).
This video was about Nodejs frameworks and not Java 😊
@@ademineshatdid you even understand what he's saying?
@ademineshat wow... completely missed the point there, didn't ya?
What's the value of Quarkus compared to Spring Boot? On an unrelated note, I was considering giving Micronaut a try to compare memory usage, most Java microservices seem to be using a lot more than they should for basic REST APIs
Thumbs up for quarkus
0:14 i will use , Spring Boot Or ExpressJs
same reason people use React even if it's not the best framework technically
It was but now its mess thanks to hooks and vercel 😂
Which is the best then?
@@octane-nn1rk Fiddle with the top 5 most downloaded in that category and pick the one that resonates best with your style. That's the best way I think one can get "the best"
@@programmerjowo agreed, vercel ruined react.
@@octane-nn1rk theres nothing called best, if you're a hobbyist you'd like solid or svelte but if you're looking for a job you're better off with react. And in terms of development/coding, svelte feels faster but svelte lacks a huge ecosystem like react, a good ecosystem means a lot of tools already available and doesn't need you to code it manually. I chose react as a beginner because I wanted to launch an app and a dev mate suggested me react because he knew i was a total beginner and that react has the most tutorials, articles, packages, you name it... available on the internet that I could learn from as i build. So as a starting point, pure react with vite (not nextjs) would be the best starting point because of a lot of tuts, tooling, jobs, etc. After that svelte and other frameworks will almost always feel the same. I learnt svelte in 1 month, vue in 1 and half a month, just by reading a couple of documentation. Also, nextjs is just a combination of react and express, and you basically know half of nextjs if you know react and other half of nextjs if you know express.
It's just because most teacher teaches using express js. And this is all students who downloaded it. If the student switch they choose different path and hence other framework has less download
Hono JS is also another NodeJS framework that I see has potentials. I did not find you mentioned it. What is your take on hono.js and May be a course on it. Just may be...😊
Glad to see a comment on it haha.
doesn't it use deno instead of nodejs?
@@mujibulhaquetanim, It uses node, deno and bun.
@@mujibulhaquetanim works on most (is not all) JS run times. Syntax, extremely similar to express but fully featured and reduced code needed. For example, hono doesn't need controllers. The business logic and routing should be in the same place per hono docs
@@everythingisfine9988 Thank you for the information; I will certainly experiment with Hono.
We use NestJS at work. Having a framework that supports DI was important to us for testing and switching dependencies based on certain requirements. NestJS uses Express underneath the hood (with an option to plugin Fastify as well). What people don't realise is that it is really hard to build a large backend with express because of it's un opiniated nature.
We also use Quarkus for certain projects that use Kafka very heavily.
But I use express.js for both small, mid-sized and large backends and never face issues that most people describe. I actually use rabbitmq often and kafka less aften. I never face issues most people who don't use it for large scale back-ends describe.
@@abeinevincent5585 Suuure you don't. Have your code reviewed by someone more experienced.
@@nou4605 I actually do use it on a daily. I think the difference comes on experience, just like any other technology, after using it over and over, you get a way of handling everything and including its drawbacks thats why I never have an issue anymore, I use it with typescript often for both small, midsized and large backends,
@@abeinevincent5585 Good engineers can build using pretty much any tool.
@@abeinevincent5585 do you have some public repo for large project using expressjs? Thanks
Nest.js adopted worst Angular feature modules. Its actually shit dynamic module, forsync ,blahh blaahhh. I hate that shit. I have worked with spring and nest believe me anotations approach is worst way to code. Yes it reduce code but if something goes south your fucked it adds too much abstraction. For my personal stuff i tend to go with Go or kator.
NestJS is actually my favorite.. I come from Symfony in PHP.. so I like to use OOP design patterns and have things like events, dependency injection, a typed orm.. it's just perfect for people who wanna make realy big complex apps
The same for me. Symfony is for me the most professional framework for php and i really wonder, why Laravel is so hyped.
@@GGGGGGGGGG96 they just too.lazy to learn symfony and just follow the trend, just like in Js world.
with js* not perfect for really big complex apps between all mainstream languages out there
@@programmerjowo Laravel has been maintained with far better docs than any other php frameworks including Symphony. I have been using Laravel since 4.2 and all I can say that it's super stable and far easy to upgrade 5-6 year old apps on the framework. Although Laravel is based on top of it, it's also greatly benefited from the popularity of Laravel in the community.
not perfect but it's doable, as long as you know how to manage the hosting/deployment part, manage memory leaks and have a solid monitoring/logging strategy I don't see why js is bad for big projects. The reason I prefer js/ts over PHP is because nowdays, frontends are based on js.. so it's much more efficient to have everything in js.. you don't redo things like data validation etc... yes you can still use things like graphql but in our particular case (small team) having a full js ecosystem makes more sens.
I totally agree with you on why express js is popular. And the reason I will use it is consist of many things, including it is popular it has great ecosystem, and it is simple (Mean I can have my own directory structure and have my own philosophy on how every thing should be organized) This make me feel that I know everything about my project. Unlike NestJs where I will always feel I don't know about the full capabilities of the framework (because I am new to it).
Im using ElysiaJS and im in love with it.
i wanted to use it too but i am not sure about is features and plugins , i mean it keeps grow but for example i searched how to integrate elastic search or redis and i didnt find nothing, what do u think about it? Elysiajs is good for small projects maybe ?
@@flavioscimeca4343 I discover elysiajs more robust and for fast development, me already use elysia with redis and elastich, minio, webrtc and others, everything works :)
@@flavioscimeca4343 maybe you want to try honojs? but im using elysia for big project and its fine, integrate with redis, minio, webrtc and any other tech, I believe elastic will works too.
@@flavioscimeca4343personally i don't like it. I switched from elysia to nest js. Elysia is unnecessarily complex and definitely not good for enterprise.
Thanks! Using Django for decade and incredibly happy with it.
Here here
Developers using Ruby on Rails, Django and Laravel use them and live happily ever after.
Really not a troll comment, but I had the opposite experience. Everything in Django felt antiquated or poorly thought out. We constantly had migration conflicts, even on a small team. I couldn’t believe the framework was unable to handle that. Maybe this was user error?
Moreover, the DRF wasn’t fun either. Too much magic. Set a serializer class and then add a serializer with specific methods? Gross.
Python is a nice language though.
I may like Fastify if I used it because I saw its tutorials looking awesome. But my project was using Express, so I had to stick with Express, which is simple and good.
There are plenty people who like Angular but they are not just as loud as React people on the internet 🤣🤣🤣
There's no reason whatsoever to use express in a new project.
I absolutely love Nest. I think that comparing it to Angular kind of shines a bad light on it, so I don't really like to make comparisons, even though I am a fan of Angular. In my opinion, a backend should have a well-defined architecture and strong type safety, all of which Nest offers out of the box, among many other things. I spent years making backends in Express, but I could never go back to it. Well, Nest does use Express under the hood so I guess I'm still using it, but it just feels much more solid this way.
do you think i should use nest js in order to become team lead in future?
I love Nestjs becuse it's great for big and complex projects .
Adonis is a great framework, really. There is no any good framework that could be better than any frameworks like from Java or PHP. It seems like backend NodeJS development still doenst reach the needs of good DB REST app
I'm using it because my application has several other dependencies that integrate with it. Haven't tried if they work with Express alternatives though. Maybe I'll give it a try
Express is used as the router inside NestJs, so, even though ExpressJs has many downloads, NestJs contributes to that number
Max, when is the NestJs course coming out?
I've been using nestjs for a couple of months. I dunno why though. It's just me. All the time I'm trying to figure how to do x thing in nestjs when I know in express it be simple. And for what? At the end of the day I just need it to send a json to my front end. I dunno why I beat a square peg through a round hole.
Some things are awesome in nestjs though. I love how easy guards are. Once I learn something in nestjs, I'm usually good, but it's still very complex.
Express actually doesn't qualify to be called a framework, a framework is more of a Laravel or a ruby on rails. Express is just a library essentially, a routing library😅
Please stop spreading this misinformation. Express has a middleware / plugin system so its technically a framework. There used to be a separate routing library used by Express, it was called Connect (now it is fully integrated, the same package). Bloated ROR-like frameworks are one extreme case, featureless Express-like frameworks are the other.
You are totally wrong here, maybe you haven't done much development in express.
It worth mentioning that NestJS uses Express (By default) or Fastify internally
im glad that you made this video because if i had to make a nodejs server supre quickly i probably would use one of the other options like koa or fastify. I hadent heard of adonis but ill check that out. The reason I dont use any of these at the moment is because im using Axum with Rust and it's a phenomenal experience.
Edit: Adonisjs looks great!
I love next js, but the thing i like about express is it doesn't change every 5 mins like next js
I used Nest.js for one of my backend APIs, and I wish I could go back and have the time to refactor everything into plain Express. For me Nest.js is just a thing objected oriented wrapper around Express that makes your backend look a lot like an Angular service layer. Which of course is what attracted me to it initially. 😊 But after running it for a while, the cost / benefit for me is not really there, there is really no tangible benefit to it other than it's a different programming model. So I just can't recommend it compared to plain Express. 👍
You are right, why we add layer to express Js if we want to use simple framework. If we need enterprise framework just use spring boot
Yeap, Am an angular lover and nestjs is awsm!
NestJS is based on Express so you are using it even there 😄
I would suggest anyone to first use Express and then Nest so you would understand why Nest is so good.
I dont like Angular.. i love Nestjs.. Vue(Nuxt) are the best for frontend
hono 🤝🏽 bun
I use Nest because it resembles Java Spring to some extent
Some of the frameworks are using express under the hood (eg NestJS). So this is adding up I guess.
Personally I don't use any frameworks (I am PHP dev) but if I could, I would probably try NestJS as it seems to have good microservice solution, which is what I am currently working on.
Nest is the best thing that can happen for node , with di and everything, it is the best choice for building big server side applications.
Somewhat disagree in terms of maintainability. What are the pros of using NestJS over ExpressJS?
Do you actually know that nestjs uses express under the hood? It's just more structured@@taylorlindoresreeves
The simplicity of express allows me to easily separate business logic from the framework. While battery-included frameworks are convenient, they sometimes force the logic to "marry" them, which I'm personally not a fan of. But still, it depends on what kind of project we're building
We need to fastify from expressing our koa stuffs! Thanks #maximilian
bun and hono
for me Deno + Hono
Hono + bun + pgtyped ... Simply fast n powerful (if u use postsgres)
Fastify all day long... You can do amazing things and its fast as hell. Express is also good, more like tradition. In my company, we have the entire OS built on top of express and GraphQL that serves IIoT in Mercedes, BMW, Porche, Audi, etc. We have more than 50 microservices. There is no need for Nest and stupid abstractions if you know what are you doing. We did it very simple and its organized on another level that you cant even imagine. No fucking single bug and problem.
I use Express with React SSR for my personal blog. It's a bit of a weird setup. It probably has room for improvement. But it's serving me well for now.
I use Node.js because I have many years of experience working with the JavaScript ecosystem, and it's where I'm most comfortable. PHP would probably make more sense for my specific use case (rendering Markdown files from the server's file system, in a traditional LAMP stack hosting environment), but I wanted to get something put together quickly, so I went with what I know.
I use Express because when I learned Node.js back in 2015, Express was the "in" framework at the time. Better frameworks exist, but for this, Express is fine.
I use React because I have a lot of experience with it, and because it's pretty good for building UI components. I use SSR because I want my site to work without JavaScript on the client. Call me old fashioned, but it's a very simple website, and I think it should be usable without JavaScript.
OMG this is my comment
I'am using NestJS, too. But actually nestjs is still express.js, and if you wan to use express still functions, middlewares you can. I think NestJS is Express + Typescript with some stable and good features.
Lastly, I dont know Angular, i am activelly using react with typescript. And i am big fan of nestjs.
what is your suggestion ? i use express but i have decided to go to the nest js. is it right a decision to make in order to become fullstack team lead in future
?
Well am using laravel and am out of nodejs and express hhhhh
I don't like Nest.js, probably cause of it's decorators or dependency injections ( love angular though ). I like fastify with typescript, also hono. I use express cause my senior make that decision for me
When can we all expect a nest.js course ?
I use Koa and I love its simplicity and minimalism. Also its cascading middleware system is an obvious win over Express.
Because it was the E in the MERN stack
Im using Go.
Laravel covers all what you need for web. Just use it😊
React Native ? Flutter which one to go for Mobile Developer
React Native
Flutter is a bit faster but got confusing code nesting, Go with React Native with Expo
Flutter is hard to read
@@programmerjowo yep
If your background was related anyhow to React - then def RN. But if they both are new to u, do Flutter then. Flutter is younger but with huge potential, easier to bake first app, more strict. Where React and RN - more liberal, you can have more tools
Nitro unjs is my go to. for many years
for me at this point of my early career, ive been using nest for work,
and planning to use elysia and adonisjs for side projects
adonis is basically one guy taking care of everything. He discontinued v4 before 5 was available and no LTS was warranted. I would avoid it like the plague.
@@JoseHenrique-xg1lp Its not one guy, he has a team now that is sponsored. You are spreading misformation. It starteed with one guy like everything else :)
usually, I use Express Js js but prefer NestJS for large projects 🙂.
Adonisjs looks awesome 😍, thanks for the mentioning it
I use Nestjs i like the organization and out-of-box mentality
Nest.js is a god damn blesssing.
Express was built with a lot of flexibility in mind and that's why even other high-end frameworks only add opinion on top of it. It's middleware architecture makes it easy to build plugins and extend it's capabilities. You can still have DI without nestjs if you properly use available libraries like inversify. I can summarise it that it's quite easy to pick up and build complexities along the way. That way the learning curve is not steep for Junior devs and also it's stability now plays a key role
I will just use spring boot if I need di or enterprise framework 😂
@@programmerjowo A framework does not justify whether you write quality code or not. It's all on the developer because we can achieve all this with whichever language you wish
I love NestJS I have used it for just 2 projects but I love it.
AI is leading focus on that
I've bought several of your courses in the past. Didn't knre u had a youtube channel. cool.
I inherited a NestJS project, it took 5 seconds to restart, which is completely impossible to work with.
Hono is the GOAT
Yeah, I have been playing with hono. I think I like it.
🐐
i’m pretty sure he must have been payed by fastify to make this video. there is no other explanation
You forgot Adonis in the title.
Cause I'm using Hono
bun elysia, its not even close
Check out my NestJS tutorial video in my channel-perfect for anyone just starting with backend development!
Similar thing with React. Why are people still using React when there are a lot better alternatives like Svelte?
BTW, I'm sad that Max abandoned his Svelte course.
Express is simple and good enough for most people. If I need something faster or "better", I might look outside the JS/TS landscape.
Adonis looks really cool
Nest.JS is great.
Nestjs on top!
The download number is so high because of legacy/old systems. Also because e.g. nestjs has express as its dependency.
Migrating to something more convenient like nestjs is sometimes not a choice a company can make because it
s expensive and does not bring any value (in the eyes of the prodduct owner)
Express is dead. Every new project I see is build on top of nest.
Still stunned there is no Django/Rails/Laravel equivalent in the JS world (and no, nest.js is not one of them).
I use expressJs and if i want to build something more robust and scalable i use Golang + gorilla mux or echo
Max you will add fastify course or as a module to some existing course? If not also please let me know
Definitely using nitro for current work projects. Its deployment build targets is too easy with how it integrates with serverless environments.
Hono
i will prefer angular over react , , i like framework structured way ,
yes i tried building spa app using js html only !! during my initial days of IT !! and it gives me many ideas etc.
not agree with you max right now you must move from express and use framework like nestjs because it help so much to developed clean projects also if you see benchmarks express is one of the slowest frameworks out there nestjs use express behind but at least you have much more cleaner project and you also can change it to fastify
there is not many tutorials on alternatives. I'm not talking about docs, but marketing)
Simplicity
Started using hono-js over express-js late last year and I have no plans to go back to using express-js. I don't see any benefit of even using express-js.
But nestjs uses express under the hood
Does not have to - it can use Fastify and if you run it with bun, you can get brutal performance boost.
I prefer to build my own meta-framework on top of express with some very clean patterns and middleware that any developer can jump into and understand.
I discovered NestJS a year after learning and using Node.js with Express. Over time, I started to dislike how unopinionated Express was, especially when it comes to project folder structure . NestJS helped me with this, offering a more structured approach and has excellent documentation.
NestJS is an amazing framework. We use it on our production for years now, it’s a fully mature framework that simply works.
I doubt many people who use express or download it are mostly after following some tutorial because it is widely included in all node js courses and is easy to demonstrate a trivial CRUD api or a simple json server that's it, People who actually want to build something substantial are very much aware of the nuances that comes with using express and they are definitely using it's alternatives like nest js,fastify etc.
My personal reason to use nest js is that sweet auto open api doc generator. It just so easy with nest js.
I like NestJS as it's straight-forward and if you have a team you have rules that you must follow. We did some projects on ExpressJS but depends on project, experience and size of team.
I look forward to the day you open the NestJS course in Udemy. I still haven't found a great instructor like you❤
Seriously I am stumped how Adonis is not on top of everyone’s lists. Crazy.
Nestjs is great
I am using what my customer asks me to use, and it is mostly Express: most of them are comfortable with it and don't want to go out of that comfort zone.
When I have carte blanche on the tech-stack, I go for Fastify for precisely the reason you mentioned: Express not being maintained for ages and twice faster.
Now, I am starting a new project for a new customer and I have to go the Nest/Express way.
Once I master Nest, on the next project on which I have carte blanche, I will probably go for Nest/Fastify.
Stale version is not necessary a bad thing. I don't think "it's not that many commits so old problems, are still there" is a good argument, if it was major problems I think people would go elsewhere rather quickly.
Most of the download no of express js is from tutorials or who are learning backend development in node js
NestJS is we are using at work. Fastify Express being un opinionated are fine to being with for some short project but for decent enterprise level requirements where multiple people are working having a framework really required.
Probably 8 years ago I first took youre course about Angular, because I wanted to start my career as a Web UI developer.
Now I am full-stack developer (NodeJs + Angular) with 6 years experience.
Thank you for your job!
I use NestJs as Node framework, because if you work with Angular you already now the concept.
Besides this NestJs provides an architecture layer (Layered Architecture) that makes development easy and provides maintainability. Further more you are allowed to use features of Express or Fastify, the framework itself exposes its API that is pretty cool.
So, for me to use NestJs + Angular is preaty cool!
Because usually when I need a webserver, Im actually building something else and I want something that I already know will do the job. Which sucks because Express isn't amazing in many ways. Just at that point in time I dont want to be blocked from progressing on the main thing Im working on to learn a new thing
NestJS is just Java for those who are doomed to use JS.
Please don't.
The company I work for uses Koa, the error handling is great, much more convenient than express
Hello Max , i want to suggest that you read comments section for your Node/Express course on Udemy , there are people complaining and saying that the course is really old and needs to be updated , i wonder why you don’t update it as you usually do for react course for example or release another new course with your new amazing learning skills
Thank you Max ❤