DIY Automatic A/C Condenser Evaporator Mister - Electronically controlled!
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- Опубліковано 5 сер 2017
- In this video I show you how I made my own A/C Evaporative Condenser Mister. The reviews for the commercial versions leave alot to be desired, and the commercial electronic versions are expensive! I created my own using irrigation parts from Home Depot. I just need to update the mister nozzles and will update once I do.
Parts List:
25' 1/2 Rainbird Hose
1/2" Rainbird Hose Adapter to 3/4" Garden Hose
1/2" Rainbird Hose to 3/4" Female Thread X2
3/4" X 2" Pipe Nipple
CP075 3/4" 24VAC Solenoid Valve
1/4" Rainbird Misters (removed the rainbird nozzles, they are threaded)
1/4 Brass Misting Nozzles from Amazon
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01K...
Orbit 3/4" Garden Hose Calcium Filter
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003...
Outdoor Wire Nuts
Scotch Super33+ Electrical Tape
18/5 Irrigation Wire (to go from thermostat to rainbird valve) - Авто та транспорт
This methodology does work. In the engineering business we call this an Arkansas Cooler. The water mist forms a water film on the condenser fins and tubes and it increases the heat transfer between the condenser and the air. Efficiency is humidity dependent. The down side that no one seems to discuss is that water is a corrosion agent for the metals... the fins and the tubes, so you should expect an accelerated failure rate of your condenser by doing this.
For those that think this methodology doesn't work... just take the hose and spray down your outside condenser in the hottest part of the summer when the air is on. Feel the temperature of the air coming out of the registers in the house. You will notice a large before and after difference. Racers have known about and used this method for cooling gasoline going into their race cars for many years.
I have a tall Carrier and would double the number of misters.
Great video. Clear, concise and great handheld camera work!
The cylinoid is the problem solver that I was looking for! Great idea!!!! Thank you for the EXCELLENT idea!!!
Thanks a million very thorough and precise .. Went to Lowes incredibly they have nothing on rainbird the help terrible anyways I purchased similar items and came home to
get the rest from amazon... The concept is great and worth the trouble to me... Im grateful that you took the time to share this great idea.
many blessings to you keep up the good work
Thanks for sharing your trial and error updates as well. Great detailed instructions.
I built an AC condenser misting system in 1996 in Chandler, AZ and believe that I had the first and the longest running AC misting system in existence. They can save money, but only in limited locations. They can also destroy your AC unit if you do not use serious water filtration. Rainwater does little harm because it is in a normal PH range and does not contain harmful chemicals. City or well water can contain chlorine, loads of calcium, salts, etc. The only sensible water supply is RO water pumped thru very, very fine misting nozzles . If you go cheap, the $150 you save initially will be eaten up by maintenance.
Next, in order for the misting system to reduce the runtime of the compressor, there must be very low humidity. Heat transfer by evaporation is six times more effective than direct transfer of heat from the pipes to the water. The gains are small from direct transfer and hardly worth the expense, especially if you are also paying for the water.
It is the extreme BTU transfer that occurs during evaporation that is the key to success.
I invested a significant amount of money while determining whether a commercial system could be developed. I found that the units would not be cost effective in most of the country. The deep south is far too humid. The northern states don't get high temperatures and low humidity at the same time. So, your decision should be based completely on your weather. Remember, your AC function does not change. The AC operates automatically using preset controls. What a misting system can do is reduce the run time required during each cycle. This is accomplished not by the water flow, but by the evaporation of a tiny amount of mist that is able to evaporate. More water flow is a detriment, not a help.
Richard Wilson I live in Brownsville Texas, so does this mean it wouldn’t work for me? I’m sorry but what you are saying is way over my head, haha. My air con is in the shade mostly. I’m desperate to save money though. Thanks if you can help me.
Your missing some of the physics. The fan makes a negative pressure situation, If the system is rejecting heat from the house properly, it is warmer then ambient and thus can support a higher humidity. No matter what, you will transfer that via evaporation short of anything except it raining outside.
So what kind of reductions to your total electric bill have you seen in the summer in Chandler from your misting system. I'm guessing that if you use RO water for mist, there is no damaging long term effect on the heat pump at all?
No, no, NO! RO water is missing metals. It eats away metals. You will have a freon leak in short order. I know this because I tried running RO water from the service at my sink, to my icemaker in my freezer about 8 feet away. The copper lines in the wall going to the freezer had pinholes all over within 6 months.
Chihuahuaization Amelie: This system would work just fine in your area. I live in Florida and I have seen at least $30 drop in electric bill on a window unit, which is a lot smaller than the central units. I spent about $30 for all the parts and such, so the first month was a wash.
The dryer the air, the more effective this method will be. So, for me in hot and humid Florida, this is difficult. But it still works as the fan creates enough air flow to cool the coils further, thereby removing excess heat. Because I used a container to recirculate the water, I didn't loose much overall water and used about 2 - 3 gallons a day.
Use pvc instead of the coil pipe like his used. It will be a lot cheaper. The misters can be screwed directly onto a pvc fitting, again reducing costs. I installed on mine using 3 misters, 3 slip to male-threaded 1/2" adapters, 1/2" pvc pipe, enough 90 degree elbows (5 for me), T's and 4-ways where needed, and a 1/2" to 1/2" nipple. I did this because I used poly hose to connect to a recirculator pump as I was doing this on a window unit and was capturing the water as it ran out the bottom of the A/C. I made a filter out of 2" pvc about 2ft long, cap on one end, 2" to 1/2" reducer nipple, then the poly hose from there up to the pump. Then a short piece from the pump to the pvc pipe. The poly hose was used to help with vibrations between the pump and the A/C running, minimizing stress points.
Cool, never thought a sprinkler controller to do this job, interesting!
This is a great set up and simple. One tip: You can use a simple relay and a plugin DC power supply to activate the electromagnetic water valve. Any 110v AC to 24v DC plug-in transforming power supply will work, just connect the relay between it and the water valve and then trigger it with the incoming Thermostat wires from your house. This set up will reduce the load on the Thermostat's low voltage power transformer, in case it can't handle the additional load.
yep dishwashers has the perfect 110v valve just tie Into 1 leg off the contactor
Thank you for this...I will try this idea,but I would sink a rod into the ground 12 to 18 inches from each of the three sides where there will be a mister,then mount the misters on the rods facing the cooling coils...the rods would also allow for vertical adjustment of the misters.
I just set up a 24v valve and a hose with misters on it (very much like yours and very much inspired by yours). Prior to that I was running out every morning to turn on the hose to start a mister and then remember to shut it off at night. The problem is that it ran all day. I skipped the filter because my AC unit is 21 years old and I am simply limping this thing along. During a hot NC day, the temperature difference when on is noticeably different when cold air is blowing. My favorite part is drawing off the 24v and switching on only when the condenser is running.
Thank you for the comment.
Cool idea. When I was a kid, we had swamp coolers. This combines that idea with a pressure cycle a/c. The swamp coolers recovered their water, however.
You may want to add a water pressure reducer. They have one that will go inline to your outside connections. That may help prevent leaks over the long run or in case you get a water pressure surge. After about 7 years in my house most all the faucets started leaking and I found out my water pressure was double what is should have been.
Thanks for the great video!
As far as the expansion valve issue some of you are talking about it will regulate itself to keep from flooding the evaporator " that's what they are designed to do" depending on the super heat measurement it gets from the bulb coming off the evap coil it will open or close accordingly. This will not damage your system if that where the case every time it rained we would be replacing compressors from getting flooded with liquid refrigerant.
Use a Rain Bird valve-w-adjustable flow control (it's about $3 or $4 more) and you can then further reduce the amount of water exiting your misters. Much easier than buying 9 more nozzles and replacing them. Sometimes you can buy just the valve with no solenoid, so you could then use your existing solenoid on the new valve to save some $$.
LOWES didn’t have the hoses for the misters and I just installed the misters directly to the hose looks better works well. Put one mister in the middle of the condenser and one in every corner . Works beautiful ..
I love this concept. Congratulations man. You should be proud of yourself
However, I'm interested if you could measure the water usage, and then measure the decrease in power usage and see your net savings.
I got Two of those?--Now you are definitely gonna have to make another trip to Lowes!
Brilliant! I'm surprised there isn't a 24v on cooling only, so you wouldn't have to have the sprinkler valve actuate during the winter months. Thanks for the video.
WS P he could have hooked it up to the orange "o" wire which is for the reversing valve which is only energized in cooling mode. Rheem and ruud are energized in heating so ot would not work with those systems
We had an out door chiller for row cooling in our data center. It had a pre-cooler that used cardboard flutes much like a swamp cooler to pre-cool the air with water before it hit the condenser. We used two huge calcium filters and the condenser in that unit was destroyed by calcium buildup in 5 years. It was so clogged with calcium the condenser could no longer flow air effectively enough to do its job. We already did this experiment, it does work, but calcium will clog the condenser over time.
I agree that calcium buildup (or any other mineral) is my biggest deterrent, but I believe I found the filter to do the job, as it appears most filters don't seem to catch calcium or at least don't seem to do a good job, per the reviews. Here's the one I found: Orbit 10109W Misting Calcium Inhibitor Filter
EDIT: After posting, I checked the parts list the uploader provided and this is the very same filter LOL
Nice video. Misting drops down the super heat temp before going into expansion value. Nice quality filteration is required. Just shading over condensing unit will not cool down super heat temperature. I have done mine two years ago and have no problem. My summer electric bill drops down about 30%. I have only one mist on three sides.
Nicely done, think it's something I'll do to mine. Much better than that flapper valve.
Use a media to absorb the water and provide the adiabatic cooling prior to coil contact. The water will erode the aluminum fins overtime. Bad idea to run water the entire time unit runs, use a temp switch on liquid line and control water flow based on condensing temperature.
I live in Vegas with 115+ degree summers. I really wanted it to work. At best, I saw a 150 watt power reduction and only about a 1 degree reduction of refrigerant entering the house. Work into the equation the cost of filter(s), extra maintenance, and long term damage to the coils and other parts and I found a zero net gain. If there was a reduction in electricity, it wasn't seen in my monthly bill.
if you're using a mister around your patio and you find that the nozzles clog or need to be replaced or cleaned then deposits are being left on the condenser as well it would seem.
cool project
there's a lot of hvac techs here arguing and a couple don't even know how hvac works.
Well I invented the hvac lol and it's obvious this mister system works well in ares with high temperatures as it significantly reduces the ambient air. this makes the condenser perform better and achieve lower temperatures faster making it work less time and therefore save money on electric bills.
Don’t you have to worry about clogging your condenser fins with lime scale and hard water deposits? I’d imagine that such a setup wreaks havoc on your equipment.
It does. So bad
I would NOT discount this!
Evaporative cooling an AC refridgerant trap is solid thinking!!!
Lots of money to be saved...
Not sure why AC companies don't build their units to do this?
Cutting the power bill to run the AC is a huge deal!!!
I like the pvc idea, myself...🎉
this is what coolig tower techs deal with. just cycle thru acid when apparent.
algae is likely to grow before scale.
good thing I'm renting and my landlord is greedy and too lazy to do anything about it.
Be careful with water deposits. This is useful if your motor dies and you need to get it running until you get the motor replaced
Water cooled systems are twice as efficient as an air cooled system. So yes it does work I run around all summer putting water hoses on refrigeration/air conditioning systems. All you had to do was connect the 24v wire to the contractor coil and yes there is a standard for low voltage. Look look at the wiring diagram on back of panel. But since your unit is a heat pump you should of connected your solenoid low voltage to common (Black) and to the reversing valve wire (orange) Cooling is energized thru the yellow and orange wire, for heating it’s energized thru the yellow wire and common that way the water isn’t energized during the winter and when you are calling for heat. You might want to turn off the breaker at the furnace or air handler since the 24v power comes from there unless you want to blow a transformer or fuse if it has one. I would have put the water hose on the top of the coil so the water drips down into the coil and turn the misters around so they spray into the coil, misting away from coil does very little of what you are trying to accomplish. Yes I own my HVAC/R company
Very nice how to video. I bought all my parts similar to yours a month ago on Amazon. The 1/4" misting system just came in from China about $40 for all parts. Thanks!
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MG1VV2M/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 $13 for a 24v sprinkler valve.
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B018Q3AQ4W/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 $7 for garden hose splitter valve.
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01GDZANMA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 $8 for mister kit.
I have good water but you could add a $12 whole house filter housing with filter.
Just remember that outside water outlets generally don't go through water softeners.
This only helps significantly when the ambient is very high and the humidity is relatively low; I have used a hose set to mist to get an AC that wouldn't cool a house to work and cool a house, absolute proof it can help. 'save 50%' not a chance. As long as the AC can cool your house at any ambient in your locale, you should be good to go. if your AC is weak and can't, this will almost certainly help on the very hot days especially when dry.
same here. It's pretty obvious when you can't keep a place cool at all, then mist the condenser and suddenly you got cold air. These people saying that isn't possible really need to try this on a 90+ day and then feel like dumbasses.
Thanks for doing this. Do you have any follow up videos? Any build up?
Would be interested to see how things turn out long term. Thought of doing something similar. Please keep this post updated. Thanks!
Thanks for the comment! Here's a small update. I ended up having to replace the rainbird mister nozzles as they were outputting way too much water. I put a link to the misters I'm using now. Subscribe for more updates!
ua-cam.com/video/CPS3jwsrHCY/v-deo.html
See any rust or puddling below the misters? corrosion or scale?
I live in Texas there is no such thing as Mild Temps
Anthony Porcarello Sr Aint that true. Either 100s or 50s with major swings throughout the day
Anthony Porcarello Sr pls 90% humidity.
I bought $20 misting kit at Lowes today. Will put on timer and manually run it several times a day. Don't want water cost to offset energy saving
Just a thought here. If you have a Tractor Supply Company or farm type store near your home, check out the spray tips they offer. You might be able to find a better misting type.
GENIUS!
In Fla, the humidity and temp is way on up there most all the time and our condensate appears out a drain tray and sometimes an outside drain line. I Catch mine in a large clay planter for spot watering any plants not on my irrigation dripline. I would'nt use the irrigation water but the condensate should be ph neutral. I think I'll pump mine from there, instead of using city water and drop the corrosion chances further down. I'll scale the tube size down to dripline 1/8" and put a 30psi pump on some misters.
You are the Man! Thank you for your knowledge 🙏
I just watched this video randomly. I thought it sounded like your voice and then I looked up the name I realized it was you.
Small world ain't it! Haha!
Great info and great job!
Can you please let me know the part number of the 1/4 in pigtail misters you used? The segment in your video showing all the parts you used on top of your outdoor unit shows ~6 pigtail misters. I can’t find anything like these on rainbird’s website. Thanks
I really enjoyed reading the back and forth and its really helped me. Better under stand this idea I stumbled on all of 15 minutes ago. Of course I was intrigued since it seems so intuitive but then I read yours and other HVAC explanation of this.
Can you explain though why the homeowners reviewing these cooling devices all claim a 30% or more decrease in their bill if this isn't how an ac works? That's a pretty significant savings over the summer.
I think 30% is far fetched. Only way I could see that is in a VERY dry, desert environment where outdoor temperatures are in excess of 95F for the majority of the summer season. Here in hot and humid NC, the evaporative cooling effect is nowhere near a strong as it would be in a drier environment. My personal savings were in the $20-$40 range per month. My monthly power bill averaged about $250 in the summer, so a 10-17% savings.
There's just way too many variables to calculate what was actually saving money. The only data I can quantify was a drop in air temperature after the evaporator. This means the unit outside was able to extract more heat and move it outside, and get rid of that heat more efficiently. Remember AC does not "make things cold" it moves heat from inside to outside. The more BTUs of energy (heat) you can extract from the condenser unit outside, the more efficient it is going to be.
Best one i've seen.
just had a thought (probably not first person to have this, lol). Mist air filter/chiller : You could probably further reduce mineral building up (beyond trying calcium filters), (and reduce 'corrosion' from oxidizers in tap water like chlorine), if you wrapped the condenser in 'just the right sort of foam/fiber material..that could catch the mist and chill the air more before it hit the coil instead of chilling on the cool with more moister and minerals then on the coils. But remember evaporation means the air is 'soaking in' more moisture, so this may not work as well as moisture right on the fins, because they are hotter and that creates a little 'laminar dry zone' at the surface of the fins because the heat (of the fins) increase the amount of moisture the air can 'soak up'. The 'filterchiller' would not have this heat, so that could kill the concept except in dry regions where the ambient air can readily take on water and be cooled that way. Correct filter it would not affect airflow much during non-misting operation , but would keep much or most of the mist water off the coils. You could just unwrap and clean it or replace it. the mister head could go though it maybe and the misting plumbing could still be underneath the wrap. There would definitely be a sweet spot of flow, surface area/arrangement etc. So would take some testing/thinking etc, but just a random idea that seems at least a 'plausible hypothesis'. It would likely also make it easier to not waste water to the wind or onto the ground, as you could aim the misters more towards it than away, but yeah dispersion variables/methods etc..you could maybe even use small soaker-type dispersion instead of mister head, 'dripping' water on the filter. Yeah I know is a just a rough idea I have no idea if could end up being of good use. Maybe just the pre-filter layer off of foam blower filter-that sort of material. But idk how durable it is to UV etc. If the 'filter wrap' was kept too wet the airflow would just pull the excess moisture right out of it and onto the coils anyway, the point would to keep the water flow below that point. You'd want to try to have the filter thick enough to evaporate as much water as is possible during 'best' drying conditions, but then lower the flow for 'worse' (higher ambient humidity etc'. There is some real science here. If you controlled this all precisely you would dramatically reduce water waste..to practically none. That kind of control is what technology is good at doing cheaply. I keep thinking this is really best for more dry regions because evaporation is so reduced in high humidity. It seems misted air directly onto coils is still much more efficient. Perhaps problems with that could be addressed by being more concerned the water quality somehow and controlling mist so most of it get's to the coils and not ground or carried off in wind. Also, you can go deeper, you could perhaps have an automatic 'corrosion and mineral build up inhibitor injector' in the water system that would have a reservoir you could refill...but idk if those 2 traits in a chemical aren't mostly conflicting with each other lol. (most mineral removers are acidic) Another interesting consideration is just what harm might mineral buildup do? Unless it gets VERY thick it doesn't seem to affect how the fins work much. I don't know if ever, or always, contributes to 'corrosion', for all I know it could prevent it, the way 'patinas' can. Would need some science about that too.
Hey JonBoy what size mister tips did you end up using? I live in AZ and concerned about the water usage. Thanks for the video.
Nice, good idea. Thanks
I have a mini split system, Can you tell which wires to use?
Do you think providing shade to the unit (Ez up or structure) would cool the unit from the sun and provide for a more efficient ac system?
Dano Vido not really, if the hot air ends up recirculating you would greatly deminish efficiency if not prevent the unit from wanting to operate at all. The best thing for a unit it to mantain it well, keep the fins clean and undamaged. When you wash the coil you need to unplug the unit, remove the fan, and wash the coil out from the inside. Be carefull not to fold over the fins. Make sure your air filters are clean inside. Lastly using the manufacture documentation, make sure the unit indoor and out was installed to spec.
Beyond that there isn't much you can do. The only time things like this seem fix anything is when there is an issue with the system and it happens to be bandaiding it
Shading will help to a degree, but you must not put a building around the unit. The top need to be about 6ft above the unit to allow for adequate air flow. Having some shrubs around the unit, but about 4ft from it, will help add some cool air as the plants cool the air through natural misting. If you have a large shade tree that covers the unit, that would work too.
As Jonathan states, the coils do need to be kept clean, and unbent. If a fin becomes bent, it diminishes the effectiveness in that area. Gently straighten the fin back out.
If you do decide to do a mister, just make sure to use clean water, with a filter if possible. This minimizes calcium (scale) and rust. I have a large bucket under my window unit and recirculator pump to mist the coils and it dropped my bill by at least $30/month. Use a float valve in the bucket to maintain water level. I only lost about 2 gallons or so a day.
You will see a current drop with the misters lowering the head pressure and saving energy. You can measure pressures and current for proof it works.
understanding these units were designed for weather, Im wondering what the constant induction of water into this system is going to do to the life expectancy of the condenser?
An easier setup would be to use a “sail switch”. It mounts above the fan and turns on when the unit comes on. You can also use a simple float valve mounted upside down above the fan. Remove the float and install a paddle of some kind to catch the wind. The valve is off when the fan isn’t going and the opens when the fan comes on.
jonboy. Can you put part numbers for the adapters, the 1/2" Rainbird Hose to 3/4" Female Thread X2, and the 1/4" misters. I am having a difficult time finding them. Thanks
Harbor freight multimeter. They always come in handy.
This system works best in places like nevada and arizona where we usually see 100+ degrees outside sometimes 115-120. For 3-5 months sometimes Heat destroys these systems out here we have really low humidity and dry summers. Just install a water filter and you will be fine.
Why not run PVC from the water supply through the solenoid and then use hose around the A/C?
I cant see this changing sub cool or superheat , however is this a 40 va transformer inside the airhandler , and if so what is the volt amps combined between the valve and the contactor being pulled in at time of operation? just curious . because I know when a garden hose is applied at full blast over the outdoor coil head pressures fall , but so does suction pressure and that I know changes sub cool and superheat. oh well I guess ever little bit helps.
Suggest using a inline pressure reducer...
Have you heard about using Cold Plus refrigerant additive to get colder air and use less electricity? I heard that both commercial and residential units are saving between 8% to 18% utility bill savings...is that possible?
If your electric company does what ours does, it provides you with a yearly comparison of the electricity you used this money, last month and last year at the same time period. And it does that via kilowatts used daily and monthly. Have you seen any appreciable changes in those amounts?
i would think it would work better if you hooked the solenoid up to the blue (common) and the orange (reversing valve) that way on a heat pump it wouldnt open up unless cooling is being called for. Because in heat mode it will still open(on yellow) if its a carrier bryant etc, but if its a rheem then the way you hooked it up if fine because the cooling mode on a rheem energizes the reversing valve in heat mode where as most other brands energize it in cooling mode.
Just curious. Are you still using this and have you replaced your condenser yet?
GFM
Have you done any checking to see if you are saving energy? Would maybe placing amp meter probe on compressor power line reveal any change in current draw when mister system is turned on?
Bourn Phree there would be a marginal drop in amperage, but the real savings is from the reduction in temperature at the evaporator inside. This is what leads to a faster recovery time, and lower running time. The compressed fluid coming out of the compressor, is cooler further with the mister. By the time the cooled compressed liquid refrigerant reaches the expansion valve and is sprayed into the evaporator it is able to reduce that evaporator temp even further, thus cooling the indoor air more, which reduced the on time of the compressor. That's where the savings comes from. Less on time. It is easier on the compressor, but only slightly.
Couple things. You can't compress liquid. And if you have liquid coming out of your compressor it isn't long for the world.
Something like this could work but the compressor needs to be smaller for true efficiency, it was designed to be a simple air over coil. Having some refrigerant readings would be cool. My guess is the unit will show low freon but in reality you could decrease compressor size, whole unit for that matter, with some tweaking on charge it likely would run like water cooled commercial system, kind of.
What about just having some shrubs around the condenser to keep it cooler and once in awhile run a garden automatic lawn sprayer.
tell me more about these temperature controling shrubs lol
if they are providing shade that's good
but you want to keep them trimmed back so they dont restrict air flow to the condenser
I also connect the wire to the old mercury thermostat and adjust that it turn on the mister when the outside temp more than 90degree f the parts are ( Orbit 20066 Portable 1/4-Inch Outdoor Mist Cooling System 15$ and Orbit 57280 Female Pipe Threaded Auto Inline Sprinkler Valve, 3/4 13.62$, Orbit 10109W Misting Calcium Inhibitor Filter 19.98$ for total 48.60$ from Amazon), and one of old mercury thermostat.
A great concept. Evaporative cooling has been around for a long time, these videos promoting misters to cool the incoming air through the condenser didn't mention the effect of, over a period of time, the corrosion faction on the copper tubing, it will shorten the life of the condenser coil. A better way would be to use a titanium heat exchanger that could heat your pool or provide warm shower water as a bonus.
corrosion on the copper tubing, from exposure to water? You mean like the copper tubing that CARRIES THE FREAKING WATER IN YOUR HOUSE? Like all the time, 24/7 it's soaked for decades and decades without any issues. Copper tubing, until recently has been the thing to use because it it is very resistant to corrosion. The fins are aluminum, which again, doesn't really corrode at all, once it gets it oxide layer it is pretty darn impervious to it. Calcium and lime build up could very easily be removed by a monthly wash.
Leave water off and measure compressor amps / turn water on for 10 to 15 minutes and measure compressor amps - this is where u can see a big difference
I was checking my this morning and I've only got two wires, so I assume once I determine which is common and which is hot
it's just a matter of hooking them up, right?
Anthony Porcarello Sr Yes u have a straight cool system out side those two wires are you 24v. If you had a heat oump system you would have 5-6 wires. So just hook up to those 2 and you will have 24v
Anthony Porcarello Sr : It’s AC current.
What is the superheated vapor temperature on your system? Did you change the charge after dropping temp of the sub cooled liquid?
Right
Great thinking using the solenoid valve. I was thinking of using an evaporative cooler float valve turned upside down and replacing the float with a metal flap. I like your idea better though, especially since I'm an Electrician. One question - I noticed while your a/c was "on", the condenser fan wasn't running, which would defeat the whole purpose of the mister system???
DS Splicer I had the disconnect unplugged, so only the contactor was energized from the 24V thermostat wiring. See my update videos to see it running all finished. I've replaced the mister nozzles with much better ones and added more. Running GREAT now. Next upgrade is going to be a arduino controlled photocell and DHT11 temp/humidity sensor so I don't run the system at night or when temp is below 88F or during high humidity.
Hmm, in my experience, the 24 volts generally comes from a step down transformer in the unit itself; so the unit would have to be powered to get the 24v. Where does your 24v come from, just out of curiosity? I will definitely check out your other vid(s). I love your ingenuity, but I've never messed with an Arduino.
DS Splicer There is a transformer in the air handler in the attic. I also build amateur switch mode power supplies so my plan is to build a 24V AC to 5VDC power supply to power the arduino. Honestly it could probably run for months on a small lithium battery but a small power supply would be so much easier. Current draw would be tiny, and a lot more efficient than a simple rectifier and linear regulator.
What about calcium buildup on the coil from the hard waterHow are you going to make that go away you have to maintain it for washing it with chemicals
I guess you didn't hear the part that he had a filter on order.
I know you're not an Electrician and neither am I but I've been doing my own wiring for almost 30 years and I have to say you might have issues sooner rather than later.
I am not dogging your project, it's a wonderful idea and solenoid is an awesome concept, but you just can not cut metal and pass wire through, even low voltage, and expect it not to cause issues in the future. At the very least you could have used a rubber grommet to protect the wire a bit more and you can still do that; simply snip the grommet and place it around the wire and push the grommet into the metal.
You get a cookie for using the correct wire nuts but lose two cookies for not putting it all in some sort of Exterior Electrical Box with Waterproof lid and connectors. Granted it's low voltage but condensation is not your friend and will defeat the wire nuts eventually, even those designed for exterior use, or cause other issues that you may not notice such as corrosion...
Overall you did well, but those few spots I've mentioned need addressed; if not for you perhaps someone else.
FYI you can also use you hose bib valve to control the water pressure as well to further fine tune your misting system... Cheers...
awesome video , can you give me a list of materials for this
It is in the description.
From what I can gather from all the comments, it appears that some people have seen this lower their electric bills, but the experts seem to indicate it is at a cost of quicker degradation and may void your warranty. All this has been discussed, what I am curious about is if it would benefit my situation. I have a 20 year old system, which means no warranty, and will be replacing it when I save up enough in about a year or so. I don't care if the water speeds up corrosion because it will be replaced soon. Here in NC it can be humid, but more so, the sun gets very hot in the summer. Would the misting lower the surrounding air temp via evaporation enough to help limp my old system along?
I'm in north Georgia. When it's 105 and inside it's hard to get below 80, IT HELPS A SHITLOAD! I don't have any kind of mister set up I just use a fine spray nozzle on the hose and put it close by, before you know it it's 65 inside. Notice how much cooler it gets instantly when it rains? Try it next really hot day with your hose. Corrosion isn't an issue thats just freaking ridiculous. Scale build up could be but not realy if you are doing this only on the really hot days, and not at all if you don't use tap water. Use collected rainwater, which has just been naturally distilled, or condensate from the evaporator and no scale either.
The systems Ive seen use really small tubing. Maybe using the 1/4 inch is why your mist is so strong...
The issue was the nozzles. In my update videos (see my channel) I ordered some brass nozzles specifically for evaporative misting for patios and what not, which did a MUCH better job atomizing the water, and significantly reducing the water usage.
I noticed the vegetation growing up and around the unit...(air flow air flow air flow)
would a shade umbrella work?
Shading will help to a degree, but you must not put a building around the unit. The top need to be about 6ft above the unit to allow for adequate air flow. Having some shrubs around the unit, but about 4ft from it, will help add some cool air as the plants cool the air through natural misting. If you have a large shade tree that covers the unit, that would work too.
As Jonathan states, the coils do need to be kept clean, and unbent. If a fin becomes bent, it diminishes the effectiveness in that area. Gently straighten the fin back out.
If you do decide to do a mister, just make sure to use clean water, with a filter if possible. This minimizes calcium (scale) and rust. I have a large bucket under my window unit and recirculator pump to mist the coils and it dropped my bill by at least $30/month. Use a float valve in the bucket to maintain water level. I only lost about 2 gallons or so a day.
I'm doing the same except
I'm using a dishwasher water valve
Do you know how much water do your misters use?
jonboy545 I only have 2 wires for the thermostat and they register around 27V. My problem is that it keeps blowing the 3amp fuse inside the air handler. Any ideas on why? I had bought a coolNSave system but it started leaking water from the paddle unit. I watched your video and ended up buying the solenoid and a pair of quick connect tees to reuse the original parts.
with the extra solenoid your pulling more that the 3amps so your fuse keeps doing its job up it to a 5 amp see if that helps
I wouldn't much higher that fuse is protecting your transformer not to much $ and possibly circuitboard those are higher $ 100+ for some
5 amp should be fine
Is there a way to connect it straight to the A/C call? There has to be a wire that tells the condenser that you want heat or A/C... Right?
Not in a heat pump setup. Heat pump has compressor, reversing valve, etc. If your condenser unit is AC only you should only have two thermostat wires. I'm sure you could use "relay logic" to disable the mister when the heat is on, but as I stated in the video I just turn the water off during the winter.
Okay... It's been a while...upgrades?.... Any suggestions?... Did it last?
So past 1 year now...have you noticed any issues with the AC unit? (described issues of people below)
Sorry for the delay in getting to your comment. As of October 2018 there were 0 issues with the setup, and was still running great. Sold my home in October and have since moved. New house has a much, much more efficient AC system and I don't see a benefit of installing a mister at the new house, however I have not totally dismissed the idea of trying again. Some things to address that others have brought up in the comments:
No rust issues what so ever. How people think a device BUILT and designed for constant outdoor uncovered use would cause rust, is beyond me.
NO, I REPEAT NO BUILDUP on the condenser coils WHAT SO EVER. Use. A. Water. Filter. Again, rain water is WAY, WAY more "dirty" than filtered, city water.
No issues with the HVAC thermostat carrying the extra load of the solenoid
The only thing I would do differently, is a better wire management job, and maybe using "liquid tight" conduit and PVC conduit box for the solenoid wiring. Just for a cleaner look. No issues with the outdoor rated wire nuts, or electrical tape. Keep in mind that's all that's used in the irrigation world, and that's usually directly buried or open air.
While I didn't do much scientific data recording to really drill down on energy savings, I can say my power bill was on average $20-$40 cheaper, without changing as many variables as possible year over year. Obviously weather has a huge affect on the energy usage, but the weather in NC is pretty consistent in the summer. Hot as balls. Water bill was virtually unchanged. WIth the NEW misters (please see the update videos on my channel) the water usage dropped SIGNIFICANTLY as there is very little flow with the new nozzles. They did a MUCH better job at atomizing the water.
My location doesn't really net the most benefit from a mister system either. It's typically very humid in NC during the summer. However, there was still a noticeable difference in condenser outlet temperature even on humid days. I can only attribute that to A) sufficient atomization of the water to still get some evaporative cooling and B) the actual water temperature itself being in the 60F range even on a hot day.
Thank you for your comment.
The funny thing about this comment section is that very, very few of you even understand the concept. You're all going on and on and about shit that isn't even relevant. The maker of this video didn't even get it right, but none of you even seem to understand that. Let's clear this up a little bit.
IF DONE CORRECTLY NO WATER SHOULD BE BEING SPRAYED N THE COILS! Everyone has missed this concept totally, and are arguing about the effects of spraying water continuously on the coils. Even still the only valid argument against that is scale build up, which will definitely happen, and there is no filter available that can do anything to stop it. Just like you cannot filter salt out of water, you can't filter out anything else dissolved in it either. The corrosion arguments are just dumb to put it plainly. Thats really reaching out there, and not something tha would be an issue in real life. One dude even claims that water is going to destroy your copper within a year, ROFL. Not true at all, obviously. Besides that, NO WATER SHOULD HIT THE COILS!
If done correctly the water will evaporate in the air surrounding the coils, which will cause the local air temperature to drop pretty significantly before it's drawn through. This is no different than running your AC when the temp is a little bit lower outside, which is obviously not a problem. I know for sure that my unit works better at 80 degrees than 105 degrees. The head pressure argument is just plain ridiculous considering that nobody is suggesting subjecting the coils to any temperatures outside their designed range of operation. More irrelevant crap, grasping for straws.
This is not for everyone, and isn't going to help at all unless it's very hot 90+ and the air is dry. Running something like this anytime the unit is on is just silly, wasteful, and unless it's very hot and dry you will end up misting your coils causing the scale problem. It likely will save on cooling costs WHEN IT IS VERY HOT AND VERY DRY. How much has yet to be determined, not 50% as some claim for sure, but maybe 10%, and only when it is very hot and dry.
If it's 105 degrees out, and dry, this evaporative cooling of the air around the unit is absolutely no different in any way than if the air were simply cooler. What is so difficult to understand about that for most of you guys? HAve you never seen a swamp cooler? Same deal, they don't work in every environment, but when its very hot and dry the only thing coming out of one is cooler air than ambient. YOu don't get soaked standing in front of one, just cool air comes out.
If you live in a very hot and very dry climate, and set this up properly you can absolutely benefit from it, with negligible side effects if any and certainly no catastrophic failure as some of these experts claim.
Oddly enough, there are plenty of window units DESIGNED TO ACTUALLY SPRAY WATER ONTO THE CONDENSER! That's right actually spraying water onto them anytime the unit is on. COLD WATER, too, as it's the condensate that just dripped off the evaporater. The condernder's cooling fan, when installed per the manufacturer's directions will skim the surface of pool of condensate, splashing it all over the coils, greatly increasing the units effectiveness. This is not the same as what the water misters are supposed to accomplish though, the water from the misters should evaporate completely before contacting any coils. I'm just pointing out the window units design because there are a few in here who are saying that doesn't work, even "if that worked they would be made that way. Well guys, THEY ARE MADE THAT WAY!
Anyway, I'm an idiot right? What do I know? All I know is that 99% of you totally missed the concept, and cannot seem to wrap your heads around it at all. Probably because you don't live in a climate that this would even work as it should. There are only a few days a year where I live that this will work as designed even. If you are in the southwest this may be very helpful for you, in the southeast, not so much unfortunately, and if you are in the north anything then why are you even reading this?
For those in the southeast though, I have something to say that could make a miserable situation a little better. If you are having issues on the hottest days where you just cannot keep the place cool, inside temps of 80 degrees are the best that your unit can do, and you aren't in a position to get raped financially by service techs, SPRAY WATER ON YOUR CONDENSER! Just set the water hose to a light mist and leave it next to the unit. Miraculously your inside temps will drop dramatically, regardless of what all these experts are claiming. IT WORKS, and doing this a few times on the hottest days when you really need it is not going to cause you a single issue, none.
I'm sure there will still be some folks who just can't handle reason or logic, physics or thermodynamics who will be back to call me names then run away, patting themselves on the back and thinking they are cool. That's fine. Any reasonable person with a fully working brain should be able to understand and agree with what I have said here. The rest of you, yeah i'm just an idiot, you go on and have a nice day!
Please refer to Superheat/Subcooling for optimal operating conditions of any A/C. On a windy day anything airborne, dirt, leaves, cotton is guaranteed to stick to your now wet condenser coil, raising the head pressure thus causing eventual compressor failure from the now lack of airflow crossing the condenser coil that also aids in cooling (the compressor) as well...Trust the engineers people, if they thought this was a great idea, it would have come equipped with your A/C...
What is the model number of the Rain Bird Solenoid? Thanks!!!!!
CP075
What is the water flow on this?
I would say shading your unit would help. Seems like a nice idea but I would be afraid to be spraying my AC unit with continuous water. May save money in electricity but destroy your unit. Guess if you don't mind taking the chance give it a try.
How did you insert the mister hoses into the main hose? Did you add anything to them or just push them in?
There is a tool available in the rain bird aisle that punctures a small hole in the rigid pipe. The small hose of the mister has a barb on it to keep it retained in the pipe. It works perfectly and I experienced no leaks.
The replacement brass mister heads that I ended up switching to thread into the flexible small hose. It also had an o-ring at the end that helped seal it up.
If you live in the northeast you will save up to $30 per season. Extra Water will cost you $45.
To all the nay sayers I am in the refrigeration business They do build systems that use water (geothermal) basically the same idea using 53 degree ground water to transfer heat much more efficiently then 100 degree summer air. misting it over your coils does not void warranty! LOL! when it rains on your unit does that void warranty??? NO Great idea I like this better then the paddle thing I may give this a shot.
I think it would be very interesting to see a side-by-side comparison test between two identical systems... one using, and one not using a mister. I'm not sure that the whole "putting water on the unit shortens the life of the components" argument holds much weight since they're designed to be out in the elements to begin with. Maybe if you have hard water... but then wouldn't a filter solve this problem?
I've thought of putting a pitched shelter over mine to shade the unit and help prevent leaves from falling into it. I've also considered the though of adding misters as well.
I'm no HVAC expert or chemical engineer. I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once though.
Just put a couple connectors on the end of the valve wires and connect them to the spare control connectors on the contactor.
Do you need to put the connectors on each side of the 24v sides of the contactor or can they both go on the same side of a contactor
@@scottlanier5133 Yes one on each side, just follow the two existing control wires.
It's been almost a year since you posted, have you seen any benefits? Any degradation to the system?
Sorry for the delay in getting to your comment. As of October 2018 there were 0 issues with the setup, and was still running great. Sold my home in October and have since moved. New house has a much, much more efficient AC system and I don't see a benefit of installing a mister at the new house, however I have not totally dismissed the idea of trying again. Some things to address that others have brought up in the comments:
No rust issues what so ever. How people think a device BUILT and designed for constant outdoor uncovered use would cause rust, is beyond me.
NO, I REPEAT NO BUILDUP on the condenser coils WHAT SO EVER. Use. A. Water. Filter. Again, rain water is WAY, WAY more "dirty" than filtered, city water.
No issues with the HVAC thermostat carrying the extra load of the solenoid
The only thing I would do differently, is a better wire management job, and maybe using "liquid tight" conduit and PVC conduit box for the solenoid wiring. Just for a cleaner look. No issues with the outdoor rated wire nuts, or electrical tape. Keep in mind that's all that's used in the irrigation world, and that's usually directly buried or open air.
While I didn't do much scientific data recording to really drill down on energy savings, I can say my power bill was on average $20-$40 cheaper, without changing as many variables as possible year over year. Obviously weather has a huge affect on the energy usage, but the weather in NC is pretty consistent in the summer. Hot as balls. Water bill was virtually unchanged. WIth the NEW misters (please see the update videos on my channel) the water usage dropped SIGNIFICANTLY as there is very little flow with the new nozzles. They did a MUCH better job at atomizing the water.
My location doesn't really net the most benefit from a mister system either. It's typically very humid in NC during the summer. However, there was still a noticeable difference in condenser outlet temperature even on humid days. I can only attribute that to A) sufficient atomization of the water to still get some evaporative cooling and B) the actual water temperature itself being in the 60F range even on a hot day.
Thank you for your comment.
JonBoy.. Like that similar 'Green-Colored' product U refer to in your demo, yours doesn't hit the home run either. Your apparatus is too big..ie. tubing, connectors, 24V solenoid valve etc. The misters put out too much water. You'll have moat around your condenser in no time, in the summer months. ANY hardness minerals in your water will eventually show up on your condenser fins. That's a no-no. Don't know what filter U ordered but, it better address any sand, dirt, debris and CACO3. A 'metering valve' would go a long way in adjusting your water flow, equally to all those plant sprinkler nozzles your using. As for the electrical... Forget hacking into your thermostat wiring. Try hooking up your solenoids contact wires to the 24V side terminals of your Condensers contactor. When the system is activated via the house thermostat...the contactor engages power and 24V side terminals sends low voltage to a 24V activated solenoid valve, which opens and supplies water to the spray heads.
Higher water pressure is suggested for Best Fine Fog pattern. Type of spray head IS, of course important. You get what you pay for.
Try using 1/4 id -5/16 od inch main supply tubing to supply water with. A fine fine spray head will use very little water in producing a fine fog type spray. Note: A true fog pattern requires hundreds of pounds of pressure. Those systems can run over $1000 to 3000.
As far as, filters are concerned...U might try using a Mix-bed resin DI filter cartridge for your system, preceded by a 1micron combination sediment and *Carbon block pre-filter. *For any chlorine, in water. High water flow rate isn't required with this type of system. Good pressure is. Change out those 2 filter cartridges every season. Use quality fittings and tubing. UV resistant, when possible.
This type of A/C enhancement, will indeed increase efficiency rating, reduce compressor head pressure, cooler air, reduced cycle time and a significant reduction in running cost.
I got involved with this type of A/C add-on system about 20years ago.
I just had a total AC System replaced, watched your video and duplicated your mister system as instructed on the video. My problem is I am getting the correct thermostat wires to the AC 24V but the rain bird valve is not activating when the AC comes on. Please help.
Hi Mary, so can you confirm with a volt meter that the two wires you are using from your thermostat wiring has 24V AC active when the AC is on correct? I'm not sure if the colors are always the same, but on mine it was BLUE and YELLOW. Blue is the common/"neutral" and yellow is the A/C call. Since it is AC it shouldn't matter which way the wires are connected to the solenoid. It will work either way.
trace from the relay back
Heat Pump is completely different.
If add this to a new a/c system this will void MFG warranty.
Mary Ann Ekasala congrats you just destroyed your warranty on your new system and the HVAC company you will have to call to fix it will ask you wtf were you thinking. For Christ sake if this stupidity actually worked it would be advertised from your local companies. Again a bunch of people who do not have a clue how their refrigeration cycle works screwing with stuff they have no idea what they are doing. People like this we love to hand them a bill to clean up their down right stupidity
Just make sure your transformer can handel the extra load of 24v value
You can use a simple relay and a plugin DC power supply to activate the electromagnetic water valve. Any 110v AC to 24v DC plug-in transforming power supply will work, just connect the relay between it and the water valve and then trigger it with the incoming Thermostat wires from your house. This set up will reduce the load on the Thermostat's low voltage power transformer, in case it can't handle the additional load.
Jonboy545 did you ever do an update? Did you save any money on your electric bill?
Reggie Lewis - YES! When he bought a new high seer AC cause he ruined the one in the video.
Sorry for the delay in getting to your comment. As of October 2018 there were 0 issues with the setup, and was still running great. Sold my home in October and have since moved. New house has a much, much more efficient AC system and I don't see a benefit of installing a mister at the new house, however I have not totally dismissed the idea of trying again. Some things to address that others have brought up in the comments:
No rust issues what so ever. How people think a device BUILT and designed for constant outdoor uncovered use would cause rust, is beyond me.
NO, I REPEAT NO BUILDUP on the condenser coils WHAT SO EVER. Use. A. Water. Filter. Again, rain water is WAY, WAY more "dirty" than filtered, city water.
No issues with the HVAC thermostat carrying the extra load of the solenoid
The only thing I would do differently, is a better wire management job, and maybe using "liquid tight" conduit and PVC conduit box for the solenoid wiring. Just for a cleaner look. No issues with the outdoor rated wire nuts, or electrical tape. Keep in mind that's all that's used in the irrigation world, and that's usually directly buried or open air.
While I didn't do much scientific data recording to really drill down on energy savings, I can say my power bill was on average $20-$40 cheaper, without changing as many variables as possible year over year. Obviously weather has a huge affect on the energy usage, but the weather in NC is pretty consistent in the summer. Hot as balls. Water bill was virtually unchanged. WIth the NEW misters (please see the update videos on my channel) the water usage dropped SIGNIFICANTLY as there is very little flow with the new nozzles. They did a MUCH better job at atomizing the water.
My location doesn't really net the most benefit from a mister system either. It's typically very humid in NC during the summer. However, there was still a noticeable difference in condenser outlet temperature even on humid days. I can only attribute that to A) sufficient atomization of the water to still get some evaporative cooling and B) the actual water temperature itself being in the 60F range even on a hot day.
Thank you for your comment.
Turn off the power to the control board in the furnace. Never mess with anything until all power inside and out is physically off.
I has been almost 2 years, how do you like it?
Sorry for the delay in getting to your comment. As of October 2018 there were 0 issues with the setup, and was still running great. Sold my home in October and have since moved. New house has a much, much more efficient AC system and I don't see a benefit of installing a mister at the new house, however I have not totally dismissed the idea of trying again. Some things to address that others have brought up in the comments:
No rust issues what so ever. How people think a device BUILT and designed for constant outdoor uncovered use would cause rust, is beyond me.
NO, I REPEAT NO BUILDUP on the condenser coils WHAT SO EVER. Use. A. Water. Filter. Again, rain water is WAY, WAY more "dirty" than filtered, city water.
No issues with the HVAC thermostat carrying the extra load of the solenoid
The only thing I would do differently, is a better wire management job, and maybe using "liquid tight" conduit and PVC conduit box for the solenoid wiring. Just for a cleaner look. No issues with the outdoor rated wire nuts, or electrical tape. Keep in mind that's all that's used in the irrigation world, and that's usually directly buried or open air.
While I didn't do much scientific data recording to really drill down on energy savings, I can say my power bill was on average $20-$40 cheaper, without changing as many variables as possible year over year. Obviously weather has a huge affect on the energy usage, but the weather in NC is pretty consistent in the summer. Hot as balls. Water bill was virtually unchanged. WIth the NEW misters (please see the update videos on my channel) the water usage dropped SIGNIFICANTLY as there is very little flow with the new nozzles. They did a MUCH better job at atomizing the water.
My location doesn't really net the most benefit from a mister system either. It's typically very humid in NC during the summer. However, there was still a noticeable difference in condenser outlet temperature even on humid days. I can only attribute that to A) sufficient atomization of the water to still get some evaporative cooling and B) the actual water temperature itself being in the 60F range even on a hot day.
Thank you for your comment.