He's done a lot of debate type content in the past, it's just how he talks. You really have to cut in if you have something to add, otherwise he doesnt really slow down. Even still, you had plenty of solid points when you did jump in❤
Lowkey Shikamaru using the reflection of shadows to capture Haku is exactly the kind of genius shit I could see him pulling off if Kishimoto allowed it.
Shikamaru Carries flash bombs (flash bangs) with him. Now imagine he sets one off in the middle of all the mirrors. That would make haku have multiple shadows from every direction because the light would bounce off all the mirrors. Haku would have a shadow from practically every angle 😂.
@@Akbar_and_Shaa practically every direction, not literally. It’s like how at night if you walk past multiple street lights and it gives you a shadow for each one
I think a MAJOR way sakuras character could’ve been improved is if she was the one who figured out zabuza wasn’t dead. Looked into the technique and acupuncture points and learned how to do it. It’s perfect for her fighting style and think she could’ve used something in part 1.
The fact that naruto was commenting on how shino couldve really been amazing on the sasuke retrieval mission despite everything he has done and the stuff hes seen sasuke do against gaara makes me feel like shino could really be "that guy" and pull out a dub against haku.
It’s a bit difficult to asses how strong Shino is because the only time we see him fight in Part 1 is against someone he has a great matchup with. I don’t think Shino could do anything about Hakus speed. Parasitic insects should be able to eat the ice mirrors though.
@@hobbyhorse5848Shino probably couldn't compete with speed, but the dome could actually help Shino. Haku will be staying in that area so I could see Shino just spawn camping all mirrors with beetle ambushes. Haku surprises people by attacking fast from mirrors that people don't know he's in. Shino can just setup on every mirror.
@@jonathanhayhurst3928 Kankuro in part 1 is weird to scale but he should be in the upper mid level of Genin, above Kiba, base Choji, Shikamaru, etc. I just don’t think Shinos bug shields are that great and would fail against precision based needles, he probably takes the fall while his bugs destroy the mirrors. But Haku also just can’t be tagged by them at all and he probably just KOs them all and snipes Kurenai before or if she kills Zabuza.
@@hobbyhorse5848 if Haku had any bugs on or in him then Shino would likely know which mirror Haku was truly in. I think he would be a pretty hard counter.
Honestly I wish Neji, Shino, and Shikamaru were on a team or at least had a couple missions together. Those 3 would be an absolute POWERHOUSE as Genin.
@@mechs4life Gonna be honest, I don't like the idea of Sasuke being on this team. I actually think in that case, Naruto would be a better fit. Neji kinda does what Sasuke can in a sense and has that sort of similar personality. In that case Naruto might actually be a better fit. Shino and Neji can keep him in line, and the two would push Naruto in a more positive light to improve. Plus Naruto adds that Much Chakra, that the two could be lacking.
How do you even counter a team like that truly? You have Naruto that just runs into anyone blindly and just tanks massive damage. You have Neji and his visual prowess with his high IQ. And then you have Shino and his long range ability and genius not to mention Shino can eat at your chakra while your distracted on Naruto and his 1000 shadow clones.
@@Trottskee Not to mention that Naruto while not very bright at the beggining was still capable of thinking outside of the box like when he did the two shuriken clone strike or when he defeated Kiba by disguising as his pet Akamaru or when he used a clone to fake his defeat against Neji. Sasuke on the other hand was the perfect soldier, capable of understanding most plans with a simple glare and use his superiority in order to defeat most enemies. Imo Neji and Sasuke were pretty much the same type of character early on, so you can take any of them and it would've yielded the same results. But Shikamaru and Naruto are pretty much a duo made in heaven, just add Rock Lee to compensate their physical power and that's it, you got a succesful mission.
@@Shoundaime As I do believe Naruto and Shikamaru make a good duo, I honestly don’t see what Shikamaru adds other than superior intellect, which when you have the likes of Shino and Neji together, I don’t think Shikamaru is needed. I think Neji would’ve been a better teammate rival for Naruto, than Sasuke, as at least Neji never would’ve left the village at I actually think Neji would’ve changed for the better because of Naruto and vice versa. Genin Shino > Genin Sakura any day, and Shino overall adds that ranged utility that anyone fighting these three would have to really be scared of. And even if they did get close to Shino, we’ve seen what happens and how that’s not a great idea. Overall, as I do see your thought process, I just really think the three of Naruto, Neji, and Shino would simply outclass any other three you put together. As Neji would’ve Pushed Naruto to actually become better, rather than only to stay one step ahead of Sasuke which just wasn’t good enough. Neji would push Naruto the same way he did for Rock Lee. The only reason I take Neji over Rock Lee however, is because then Shino would be carrying the intellect on this team, and I don’t think Shino is the type to stop Rock Lee and Naruto from doing dumb stuff. So it’s just kinda imbalanced. The only next three I can see actually giving this team a run for it’s money would be Sasuke, Rock Lee, and Shikamaru, but Shino imo hard counters Shikamaru, Neji was already said to have beaten Rock Lee before, and Naruto just needs to stall Sasuke long enough. Though even if Sasuke won, I don’t think Hidden Mist arc Sasuke beats Shino or Neji. But yeah that’s my reasonings
There are levels to even master for one. For two, i call uchiha hacks. He is granted the title genjutsu master msinly because he has the sharingan. Are we really gonna keep comparing Kurenai to one of the strongest people in the verse of Naruto like its actually fair?@itachi16ful
@@xavierthomas5835 I’m just saying She’s more like a specialist Not a master. There are others who are just good while she’s really good at it. Not sure why, you’re making a deal with your last point when it’s literally kishimoto who compared them to (probably to show just how powerful itachi is). While she’s good at it, itachi is a master that’s capable of putting kakashi in the hospital with an genjutsu and stopping orochimaru someone who almost destroyed the entire leaf village. It’s more like itachi’s hacks he was a genius who had an answer for almost every thing his opponent threw at him.
@itachi16ful most of his greatest showings of genjutsu come from his use of wither genjutsu sharingan or tsukuyomi. The problem I have with calling him a master is the dame problem people have with Naruto's use of the rasengan. Are we going to call Naruto a master of ninjutsu because he uses almost every version kekkei genkai available to ninja and several different variations of ONE jutsu? The same can be applied to many of the Uchiha. They're strong, certainly, and itachi is a genius. However we can safely say that what kurenai accomplishes without the inherited has of sharingan is mastery in and of itself. It's just that there are levels
44:56 to add on to that, Genma has completed 454 B-rank, 74 A-rank, 2 S-rank missions and is still alive. That’s 530 life threatening battles with other joinin he’s come out from. He has one of the best records in the leaf, just being behind people like kakashi and Guy
D rank missions expect no combat at all. C rank expects only combat against non-shinobi. B rank is the lowest rank where shinobi v shinobi combat is expected, this likely indicates they're not expecting jonin combatants.
@@dontmisunderstand6041 I know, but why would it be expected then? That means it’s more likely than not. Even low ball by 40% and it’s still impressive
@@spit-fire I think what they meant was that with B-rank missions you can expect combat against shinobi, but not necessarily jonin. You'd think that they'd put chunin-level combatants and jonin-level combatants in separate tiers given the implied strength difference, so B-rank missions probably mostly involve fighting chunin. This would also make sense given that B-rank missions are typically assigned to chunin, and A-rank missions are reserved for jonin.
Would the byakugan be able to see through Haku faking Zabuza's death? If it does then team Gai could essentially just end it there and not even have the bridge fight at all.
If we're talking the first encounter... Kakashi straight up lost to Zabuza and was rescued by the genin. There's no reason to believe *any* of the other jonin could outperform Kakashi there, as Kakashi was using sharingan to see through Zabuza's mist and clone jutsu, and STILL got outplayed. Guy can use the gates to escape the water prison, possibly. Team 10 is basically the best possible team to break the water prison, specifically because it roots the caster in place, meaning both Ino and Shikamaru could individually save Asuma. Team Kurenai, Shino straight up kills Zabuza if Zabuza even tries the water prison. Standing still is a death sentence against the parasitic beetles.
Not just that but Shikamaru would deduce this and not only that Kiba can smell them out and know Haku was there from the start. Hinata byakugan is stronger than Nejis aswell so they are gonna know of Haku and jump on him immediately. Shikamaru will have prep timed that fight before it happens and planned to neutralize them both. That pre fight skirmish is gonna lean this heavily into all the other teams favor. In fact Haku and Zabuza probably doesn't make it past the first encounter with some of them because they are gonna apply a lot of pressure on Zabuza
5:50 Actually, Neji doesn't have Rotation during the Zabuza arc. It's a skill he learns between the preliminaries and the Chuunin exam finals. We see him training it with Tenten and her being impressed.
To be fair to Kurenai the itachi thing isn't really as much of an antifeat as people seem to think. It's actually pretty impressive because I'm pretty sure she is the only person in the whole series who manages to catch itachi in a genjutsu even if he reversed it on her. The fact that she caught the guy who is the strongest genjutsu user for a majority of the series in a genjutsu at all is kinda crazy. On top of that she managed to break out after itachi reversed it on her before he could even hit her. I know people meme on kurenai allot, but her feats against itachi do actually give us a pretty decent idea of what she's capable of.
She didn't catch him though, Itachi let her think she caught him but she was already in the genjutsu. He even says "Genjutsu of that level doesn't work on me". Doesn't work means it did not work thus she neve caught him at all. She was a trash Jonin in comparison to the vast majority of Jonin level ninja we see in the show.
@@Ronfost89I agree more with this. Itachi was literally playing around with the Konoha jonin with the exception of Kakashi - he actually incapacitates Kakashi.
She was the strongest genjutsu user of konoha at the time :/ she's not even close to Itachi but she was the best genjutsu user konoha had after the Uchiha fell
@@scars5505 i mean he _does_ get caught in it. We literally see it happen. He just has the sharingan, so he can instantly see through and reverse genjutsu. It's still an impressive feat that she could ensnare him at all.
@CelestialStar46 she's stated to be the best genjutsu user in konoha. Even tho she has no feats in screen, if she really is or not that depends, but she's a Jounin and is a genjutsu user, so her abilities with genjutsu are at the very least an elite shinobi's level
One thing not being brought up in this video. The veil of mist was not just a random decision by Zabuza. Zabuza stated that Haku was great at thinking up countermeasures to jutsu, that's why he picked out the veil of mist to counter the sharingan. With other techniques Haku would probably think of different strategies, and if nothing came to mind... they'd probably just bail.
That being said... not sure about ehat could be a good match up for some. Kurenai and Asuma are quite easy (they just have to protect against theirs specialty), but for Guy and Gaara... I cant really see something they could use against it since their jutsus is tailor made to ignore the weaknessess of their fight style. THEORICALLY you could stall Guy and Lee but... that's not really realistic.
@@albertonishiyama1980Obviously Guy's team would win in a pretty significant manner, but I personally don't see Kurenai and Asuma's team really holding up in comparison to Kakashi's.
shikamaru is the only part of his team doing anything. ino is just as useless as sakura was and choji even moreso. temari can wind blast mist away like its yusuke vs bakken without the arbitrary 5 shot limit so shes invaluable. kankuro i cant see a big advantage of having around aside from a meat shield. gaara needs no introduction. neji could make some good use out of byakugan but i doubt its going to outplay sharingan too much at this point. rock lee has a definite speed advantage just by dropping weights, if he opened gates hes definitely wiping the floor with haku. ten ten might block a needle with a kunai or something. hinata and kiba both are trash at this point. shino would have to solo gunna have to give it up to gaara and friends just for kankuro being infinitely more useful than ten ten
@@GhengizKanye Honestly Haku's pretty damn inconsistent in speed in general, since he has feats that put him compareable/above even Gated Lee, but also anti-feats that put him below incomplete Sharingan Sasuke. So Lee vs Haku really depends on how fast Haku decides to get, but Lee likely wins as long as he goes all out from the get-go.
@@nirjhar4803 yeah i never take any anime/manga at face value. idk of any that are consistent when it comes to power scaling after early dbz or yu yu hakusho dark tournament arc. but id certainly give it that lee just dropping weights and scaring the shit out of gaara is enough to let me know him being a year ahead of team 7 in experience and having a slightly better sasuke on his team is a huge advantage. plus ten ten still MIGHT block a needle.
I feel like it's well in shino's characters to pull a million beetles outta no where to cover all the mirrors. It would probably be situation where Kiba is inside the mirrors breaking them over and over with fang over fang but not really getting anywhere when all of a sudden all the mirrors start to go black and shino appears and reveals that he's been breeding bugs on the sidelines. After that Haku pretty much gets devoured
If Hinata is given the same mental amp she had against Neji, then her and Shino make a decent combo against Haku. Kiba is best at Kurenai's side to help her track Zabuza within the mist, and honestly he might not be completely useless in combat as Asuma hyped him up a bit. And if Kiba is in the fight against Haku, smoke bombs are part of his arsenal which are help in surviving Crystal Ice Mirrors.
Lol what mental amp neji was toying her the entire time. She was the weakest link of team kurenai. Since she is a female and shy she'd have Sakura role
@@blueblade6174 I've seen it a lot of times and it even stated that in chunin exams hinata was the weakest link in team kurenai and we see neji was toying with her
In defense of Shino, I think it’s very plausible he would just flood the entire area with bugs, blocking haku’s vision and escaping the mirror trap with kiba. Also would it be possible he would have the chakra eating bugs just eat the mirrors since they are made of chakra?
I think it depends on how cold-resistant Shino's bugs are. Since the mirrors are cold enough to resist being melted by fire jutsu, it's possible that the bugs would just freeze on contact if they tried to eat them. And Haku might be able to nullify the insects by lowering the ambient temperature, since most insects can't really function in the cold and have to hibernate or migrate during winter.
Dude, there's no way that's happening. One shino is limited about the amount of insects you can summon two Haku can legit Kill all of his insects one by one. If he tries this before they can steal any chakra from him. We saw this with Naruto shadow clones he destroyed hundreds before saskue could react that's not something to forget that won't work However, if it is 3 of them combined supporting each they could maybe escape but it'd be a very tough fight and I think they would more have to rely on kurnai using genjutsu from afor to throw his senses off and attack in that moment. Which is possible
I'm still getting to that part in the video, but is it possible that Shino beetles that he used against zaku would work on a kekkai genkai? If haku restores the mirror using chakra, and it is still a jutsu, they should work.
I think Kiba wouldn't even get inside the mirror, Shino would deal with Haku from inside fairly well with his bugs and Kiba would use his jutsu to try to break the mirrors from outside, or the 2 headed dog since that jutsu is also pretty strong
As a note, Neji did not have the ability to perform Rotation until right before the finale of the chunin exams. If we're assuming that the fight would take place in universe at the same time as it did in the canon timeline, then neji would probably have a much harder time with Haku.
It was never confirmed Neji couldn’t use rotation till the Chunin exams. It was just the first time we seen him (side character) use the rotation. Keep in mind he is 1/2 years older than Naruto
@@astekkwrld6986 It is all but confirmed when we see him training with Tenten in episode 55 in the forest. He says the he has used "too much of his chakra" with a crater being created in the ground in a circle around him. This is an imperfect rotation, as the jutsu, when perfected, does not produce this circular crater. Although this doesn't confirm he can't use it prior to the Chunin exams, he definitely does not have a mastery over it to the extent where he could pull it off perfectly mid battle multiple times against an opponent like Haku.
He could use it from early on, we saw him fighting Hiashi and Hiashi was shocked that Neji could do rotation, and was jealous that Neji of a lower brand was the one given talent amongst the Hyuga.
Another related point is that if we scale Guy down as much as Kakashi, i.e. assume that they improved at the same rate throughout the series, then maybe this Guy is MUCH weaker than considered in the video. Though he probably still stomps because he should already be proficient with gates.
Zabuza and haku low key the best villains of Naruto pt 1, mainly because they helped cement Naruto’s way, plus they had a really good backstory and embody the emotional impact of a ninja world. Also I serverly miss the strategies involved in a Shinobi battle, but now the strategy is to use dbz style jutsu that destroy continents
You mentioned this topic on stream a while ago and I'm glad you got to talk about it. This was a really fun video. Here's my two cents: It's a little bizarre to suggest the conditions would be the same as against Team Kakashi and I would have liked you guys to touch on why the Genin squads compositions are set up the way they are. It only matters specifically for Team Kurenai and partially for Team Asuma. Team Kurenai is exclusively sensor scout types. The idea of them getting separated like that doesn't seem likely and Zabuza can't hide from any of them. Kiba, while not amazingly impressive, does have a really solid AP feat in being able to damage the Rashomon Gate. If Choji gets his pills, Kiba absolutely gets Twin Headed Wolf which can probably do some damage to the ice mirrors. The real reason that Team Kurenai can not lose this is because even if you set the conditions to Team Kakashi where they are separate, there is no way for them to force the 1v1 because of Shino. Shino won every fight by ignoring the obvious target and sending the bugs to remove the opponent's win condition. Zabuza will be caught by Kurenai's genjutsu once, which is a win if Haku doesn't break him out for two reasons. One, Kurenai just assassinates him on her own like she was going to do to Itachi. Two, if Shino's bugs get to the paralyzed Zabuza, his chakra is sapped and he's out of the fight and there's no way for Haku to prevent that. If Haku goes to break Zabuza out of the genjutsu, then the 1v1 condition is broken. If Haku gets put in the genjutsu by Kurenai, the fight is over for the same reasons as Zabuza. Team Asuma is the most interesting, as discussed. I wonder if they would switch targets at the start. I don't know if Zabuza can avoid being dismantled by InoShikaCho, which is the entire point of the squad. Even if Asuma can't manage to survive against Haku, I think Ino's Mind Transfer on Zabuza makes Haku surrender. I think Asuma beats Zabuza with minor difficulty but might not be able to beat Haku at all. Giving Choji his pills means that he solos the fight, but they might not even need that. Other than that, I agree for the most part. Guy and Gaara clean stomp. I don't think Kabuto can beat Haku at all. Either way, great video.
Someone actually mentioned that Kiba point, and my only issue is that it's heavily implied he doesn't know the technique at this point as post this arc he's shown practicing the Dyanmic Marking used predominantly with the Three headed Wolf. We definitely could have given it to Kiba which may just have been oversight on our part but, that was the logic with that decision. Appreciate the support!
@ThunderGod That's completely fair. There's quite a bit of story complications with this anyway. It just seemed unfair to me to take Choji's pills as given, but Kiba's feats from the same point in time were overlooked. Neither seem like they're the make or break factors in the outcome of the fight anyway.
@@ThunderGodTGWell, considering every genin got a power up from their Chuunin Exams selves to their Sasuke Retrieval selves, and Choji's was the calorie pills, you could infer that he only was given them after the chuunin exams. Also, you guys say Neji has access to the Rotation, but I think he only learned that technique right before the Chuunin exams. It just seems that you guys have Neji and Choji things they wouldn't have access to, while restricting Kiba the same courtesy.
I agree largely. Except I think team asuma all dies. Haku should be viewed as a guy with a gun imo. I think the professional murderer uses higher speed to kill all asuma’s genin before they have a chance to land their fancy techniques. Choji won’t have time to eat a pill before getting needles through his eyes or neck. It took all Sasuke’s skills just to keep him and Naruto alive for a few seconds. Only lee and maybe neji can match that with seeing the attack and reacting fast enough to escape fatal damage, and they are older. They can likely survive long enough for guy to beat zabuza and help them. Even the sand genin only win because of high defense (2 of the 3 in any case) Valid point with the tracking and survival team avoiding the fight and calling backup. It’s probably difficult to chase an illusionist, and kiba can carry the bridge builder on his dog
I almost agree with you. I think Team Kurenai has the best chance (after team guy). HOWEVER I don't see them or the other teams winning. No one is shown being able to see through the mist with dojutsu iirc. They have to be sensory or use other senses. Hinata might be useless. It's The Mist + Silent Killing. So no sight or hearing their attacks. Kurenai was already shown in a situation where she cant see lol (Kakashi vs Itachi) but here she can't see or hear Zabuza coming. She will not do well in this scenario either. Her genjustsu would work but Zabuza can break out and if he doesn't he still probably survives whatever attack she uses because he was consciouss with swords and kunai in his back. She's the strongest ninja of all of them. Kiba/Akamaru have heightened senses but they still can't see Haku or Zabuza. They probably hear him though. Kakashi's dogs used smell but they didn't smell Zabuza he instead used a high IQ strat that Kiba probably won't think of. Shino's bugs probably just get negated by water style realistically speaking. They might do something but I can't see Haku/Zabuza not finding a counter or dodging. They also are just faster, stronger, smarter more experienced than all of them.
Just a small note of Kurenai, she had some fights vs the Kurama clan arc in the original Naruto that showcased some of her genjutsu fighting abilities. Most people don’t even know about it, considering it’s filler and near the end of the series
@@Theta117t doesn’t but considering her only other fight was not only inconclusive but basically impossible to scale her with- yeah using filler should be fine there
Asuma v.s. Zabuza, you have to take into account that Asuma, also has this Shikamaru strategic mind, so his fight against Zabuza would last long and considering that Shikamaru could understand pretty quickly how the mirrors work and use Choji to destroy them. Shikamaru could even realize that Zabuza is a serious thread to Asuma, making him doing it as quick as possible with Haku. Catching Haku with the shadows that are everywhere and command Choji to end it quickly with a big super inflaton smack on trapped Haku. Asuma with back up from Shikamaru would be very serious for Zabuza.
The fact that Tenten got no love is painful. One thing Tenten could do in this fight is counter the senbon from the mirrors. She spawns as many weapons as Haku does ice needles. She could keep those at bay.
@@cherishporter5314 i didn't say she could destroy it, i said she could TRIED to break it 🤣. Hey at least she can do something and not just stand there like sakura.
I think team Gai wins for sure. Team Asuma I think squeezes out a W as well but it could go either I think you guys brought up some good points in that one. Team Kurenai I don’t think has enough from a lead standpoint with Kurenai because we have to assume too much with her. Kiba and Shino have the potential to make the haku fight interning in my opinion and hinata depends on whether she is motivated or not
I think team guy is less clear cut than they make it. Lee wouldn't "show up late" to be able to attack the mirrors from the outside mirrors the same way Naruto did when he snuck into them, his character isn't like that. He'd likely get trapped inside the mirrors at the same time as Neji. It all entirely depends on if you think Lee can break through mirrors with gate usage, and we honestly don't know. Rotation will work as long as Neji has Chakra. The best argument for Guy's team is that maybe Guy can take Zabuza out quicker than Kakashi could, and then HE'D be able to break through the mirrors after, or MAYBE weightless Lee is fast enough to keep up with Haku, and that combined with Neji's Byakugan would be enough to get them the w.
@@HomeCookinMTG lee would for sure be able to keep up with haku, even if its just dodging, even sasuke was able to dodge towards the end and lee is faster than sasuke. Neji would probably be able to see haku trough the mirrors, so he will always know where the attacks come from and i see him being able to dodge most of the attacks aswell. Guy would easily beat zabuza and once zabuza has been defeated, haku has no reason to keep fighting.
@@joey-desu Sasuke was using the sharingan to dodge, lee eyes aren't as sharp as Sasuke's. I do think they would win I just don't think it would be super easy for them like people are making it out to be. It isn't as if neji would be able to just Spam rotation in close-quarters to lee like that, and it's kind of hard to quantify how strong haku truly is. He was holding back against Naruto and Sasuke.
@@HomeCookinMTG yes sasuke used his sharingan which helped a lot but speedwise hes no match for lee... before the chunin exam lee and sasuke had a little fight where sasuke was able to see lee´s attack but his body wasnt fast enough to react, while he was able to dodge all the haku attacks after just awakening his sharingan, and keep in mind that lee probably had his weights on + lee can open the gates to get even faster. Haku was holding back but i doubt his speed would get anywhere close to lee. I feel liek a big part of hakus holding back was just to intentionally not hit any vital spots cuz he didnt want them to die. Also keep in mind lee and neji both have been genin for a year already so they have much more experience and had more time to train. For neji i doubt he would even need to use his rotation, in the neji vs kidomaru fight he was able to fight off a lot of spiders without having to use his rotation, by just taijutsu and him knowing where they come from thanks to his byakugan, since haku only threw his needles i feel like neji could keep up and deflect, staying in pure defense mode. I dont think neji nor lee would have enough power to break out of the ice tho, they would need to be in defense until guy was done with zabuza, unless lee opens his 5 gates but even then he barley dealt damage to gaara so idk how strong the ice would be compared to gaaras sand.
@@joey-desu Haku is shown to be on par with 6th gate lee's and 6th gate guy's speed. In fact, the implication is that Haku is *faster* than them though relative enough for them to block him, with it being directly shown that lee was slower than guy. Lee isn't even in the same tier as Haku at this point in the story, speed-wise.
In the case of Kurunai's squad: When it comes to genjutsu, its not just a matter of inflicting pain, its a case of figuring out how the genjutsu is affecting all 5 senses, create a new sensation under your own control (in most cases self inflicted pain) and using that instant to straighten out your internal chakra network. Its all about chakra control. Additionally The Haku fight being Kiba and Shino I dont think is the correct call. Shino works much better back lines as support. The Byakugon is far better from awakening at tracking and perception, so Even at her fastest Hinata would be able to track haku and her gentle fist would be ideal with shattering the ice mirrors, having her be support for Kiba would be a winnable setup, or at least a winning distraction as Shino sneaks a beetle onto Haku
TG, you're a good UA-camr. You're humble, generous, have great energ, and work well with others. You also started doing more research to your videos a while back, probably about the Shino vs. Sound Four video, which improved the quality. Then you add in the great topics, and that makes for some very good to great content. Just keep making these videos my guy.
The thing is if Itachi wasn't an Uchiha, didn't have the sharingan, I don't think he would have been able to break out of her genjutsu. Still the fact that she was even able to place him under it, and it working for a bit was quite an impressive feat
Kabuto moving with a jumbled control system will always be one of the most ridiculously slept on things in this series. "Ok, so if I try to move my left leg, my right eye twitches, but if I try to twitch my right eye, my ears wiggle....Got it! Lessgooo!"
In defense of Zabuza, Guy says that him and Kakashi are rivals. If Kakashi had difficulty with Zabuza, I don’t see zero gate Guy being able to just waltz in there and get out unscathed.
@@gabrielparanormalchildhood7559 Zabuza was a mess after watching Haku die. He hesitated to cut through him to kill Kakashi. You really think Kakashi didn’t take it seriously when his and his entire squads life could end in an instant? Get out of here
@@beebobber546 Kakashi wasn't taking Zabuza seriously at first, he was playing around, smiling at Naruto an Sakura being funny. Once he got caught slipping being stupid he got water prisoned. But ONCE HE GOT REALEASED BY NARUTO AND SASUKE, ZABUZA GETS BASICALLY GENJUTSUED GG MID DIFFED. ALSO Kakashi said he hadn't trained since he was an anbu in his teens, so he even says he is a little rusty, because of his depression. Team 7 is his first actual team so he has no mentoring experience, he was goofing but once his kids were in danger he CLOWNED zabuza.
@@gabrielparanormalchildhood7559 you’d have a great argument if Kakashi didn’t immediately stop Naruto from charging at him and doing something dumb, then realizing it’s immediately time to use the sharingan. He took the fight seriously from the beginning. Goofing around with someone like Zabuza in the mist is suicide. Another point is Zabuza saying which point will be his kill point, clearly taunting. I then can make the same argument he wasn’t trying either by your logic. (I won’t even bring up him taunting to the Genin instead of just killing them because that’s just plain old plot armor)
Zabuza is one of my favorite villains, his water jutsu were always so cool to me. Water dragon jutsu is still my favorite ninjutsu after all these years.
Genma is really strong. But the sand also isn’t that powerful of a village so him being the strongest jonin there isn’t as impressive and shouldn’t get anymore respect than Asuma or Kurenai gets. Again… why didn’t kishi use genma and raido 😭
I think the issue with how you approached Kurenai's match-up is assuming it would be a head-on battle. In her fight with Itachi the goal was to defeat him to protect the leaf village. It was a no backing down situation. So she had to try and overwhelm them with genjutsu in a head-tp-head fight. Whereas in the bridge arc, their job was just to keep the bridge maker safe. They don't even need to fight to accomplish that mission. Using genjutsu to cover their escape and even laying a trap if they should follow is the route they would be more likely to take. Kurenai is a genjutsu specialist, so she'd fight like one, not like a ninjutsu or taijutsu specialist.
Something to consider with the fight against Team Asuma, is that it depends entirely on who Haku fights first. By changing his bodys size, Chouji has a way to "dodge" lethal attacks from Haku, additionally, Shikamaru could probably figure the mirrors out quickly, perhaps before Haku even gets an attack on. He might not know Haku is teleporting but he would be able to deduce that Haku is looking for a blind spot and he could definitely strategize where Haku would attack from, perhaps even finding a restriction on how Haku moves between the mirrors. Another thought is Ino might have an interesting way to help Asuma against Zabuza, because her technique is a distance one and Asuma could keep Zabuza mostly pinned in close quarters.
This is such a facinating and fun thought experiment. Felt like all the good Naruto discussions had been done ages ago and everything is just a rehashing of old ideas. This is definitely different (plus, the world needs more Zabuza content). About Shikamaru: Shadows do not reflect. Shadow is absence of light, you can not reflect absence. The mirrors would eliminate shadows by bouncing light in a uniform way, most likely.
I don't think you guys gave shino and kiba enough credit. They were willing to use the sasuke retrevial arc version of choji yet didn't use the sra Kiba. Who has access to three-headed wolf fang over fang, which should just completely annihilate the ice mirrors. Even just kiba and akamaru using the double fof wildly like in the jorobo fight should be able crack/break the mirrors individually, especially if he's being protected by shinos bugs. This strategy possibly giving shino enough time to come up with a strategy considering in his fight with kankuro/sound dude he's shown to be able to counter weird jutsu Givin enough intel. Also hinata's byakugan has insane range. She could make call outs while protecting tazuna
They completely disregarded Akamaru! But more importantly, like you said, Hinata"s Byakugan could even assist with Kurenai (why can Haku help Zabuza, but the other gennin can't help Kurenai?) Team 8 is all about tracking, and would be very hard to use the Hidden Mist Jutsu with Kiba and Akamaru's sense of Smell, and Hinata's vision. I honestly feel team 8 has a better chance than team 10 at this particular point, y'all REALLY gave Choji every benefit of the doubt, and Shikamaru really didn't come into his own until AFTER the chunin exams .
Not to mention Hinata being a taijutsu specialist, she can protect tazuna better if zabuza or haku got close, hitting those chakra points. Way better than if the other girls were in her position in my opinion
heres the thing about the inuzuka clan in general,they are outclassed in every single category by other clans you want a scout/sensory type? aburame and hyuugas do it much better you want a taijutsu user? hyuuga and akimichis are much stronger in general long range? outclassed by aburame and hyuuga as well,the inuzuka clan has a multitude of issues,one if you take out their dog they lose 50% of their power once they lose the dog they cannot gatsuga tsuga beast clone dynamic mark or two headed dog haku is extremely fast so he d take out akamaru with no hardship at all,two if you have any knowledge about the inuzuka clan (which haku will have given he is essentially a hunter nin) you would know you can use their strong sense of smell against them and pretty much paralyze them for many seconds if not a good couple of minutes,kiba would be useless in this fight just like sakura was.
Team Kurenai is a tracker team and that was totally overlooked. Even with Hinata on the ouside of the mirrors, she would still use Byakugan to watch for patterns even through the mist. Kiba and Akumaru would definitely use dynamic marking on the mirrors so regardless of which mirror Haku used, he would get covered in pee and they would use that to track his movements. You cant rule him out just based off his fight with Naruto. 1. He fought after the forest of death and having to survive that and Haku isnt gonna fart in his face.
Even if she thought about trying to coordinate how they should fight by looking on mirrors, she is 1) to Squamish to say it 2) to weak to do anything. BUT IF, SOMEHOW still noone in that Team is fast enough to do anything to Haku.
Team Guy trivializes it. I quite like the imagery of it coming down to a desperate final ina-shika combination to finish off/contain a weakened Zabuza after he's worn out Asuma while Choji put everything into taking out Haku. Going full on with the "what-if" I can see Asuma making vague reference to Choji being their ace in the hole during the training lul between the two fights before the reveal of the food pills on the bridge, probably without saying which of the three members he's referring to for the audience's sake. Really underselling those bugs. Even if Shino didn't get any bugs on Haku before the Mirrors go up, which I'd say is actually pretty likely he would (maybe even before the fight), he can literally just cover all the mirrors in them, negating the speed advantage. Team Kurenai is also the most likely to have a team member still have the talking encounter with Haku between fights. Both Shino and Hinata have the potential for a poignant and impactful one-on-one conversation in that situation, given everything retroactively known about their characters and treating them as the protagonist team in this thought exercise. ...Sadly, Kiba is the Sakura of the group as already assessed, Shino is the anti-Sasuke that craves connection but is ill-equipped, and the closest quick comparison I could make with Hinata is she's the anti-Boruto archetype as weird as that sounds? Also, I could see it being two two-vs-one match-ups on the bridge, with Kurenai and Hinata working in tandem against Zabuza and Shino on guard duty while -aiding- doing all the work long range in Kiba vs Haku. Seems like what both the students and their Sensei would devise to handle the encounter. Since the first fight was glossed over with Team Sand, I imagine a scenario where maybe Gaara isn't in the mood to get involved or is ordered to defend without having enough blood lust built up to disobey, or is just busy absorbing the blood of those ninja brother mooks from before Zabuza shows up or something, so that fight has him setting it out to make it interesting. Even without Gaara, they're probably at least as effective as Team 7 was there given the same level of teamwork. Could the Sound ninja completely shatter the mirrors with sound jutsu? Might be uniquely suited to countering that in particular, even if Haku's base skill level and resilience might still overpower them all, even with charitably assuming total uncharacteristic teamwork.
4 місяці тому
Both Zabuza and Haku are war arc scaling characters that needed multiple jonins to be stopped even while trying to get themselves stopped. Let that sink in. Without Naruto's talk no jutsu on Haku , Zabuza easily could have used his mist jutsu and just butcher all the genins.
Sasuke with a one tomoe Sharingan was able to react to Haku's speed. Lee was able to casually beat Sasuke when he had the two tomoe sharingan. Lee without his weights is absolutely destroying Haku.
Lee almost beat a fkn Jinchuriki (Gaara) if it werent for the BS sand clone that was written for plot purposes. Lee's drunken form while still recovering from his injuries also went toe to toe with Kimimaro. A healthy Lee without weights is 100% destroying Haku.
Haku, if we are going canonical, witht the datebook. In his mirrors, he travels at the speed of light. Lee ever being faster than Haku was just poor writing. Sasuke being able to react to light speed is also poor writing.
@@solusanimefan reacting to the speed of light movement is less about being faster and more about predicting. For example, if Sasuke could throw a kunai that would hit Haku while he's moving from mirror to mirror, he would throw it before Haku even leaves the first mirror. Haku would be moving too fast to react to the kunai thrown and he'd essentially run into it.
@@iRazenrak So, in short, Haku>Lee, when it comes to speed, but since Haku was just trying with Sasuke, he could anticipate just enough to get licks in, where Asa Lee despite being slower, absolutely blitzed Sasuke and gave him no chance to anticipate.
Team kurenai has a much higher chance of eating zabuza than team Asuma. All 3 genin are sensory types that is key to fighting in the mist. Secondly all 3 genin on team kurenai can be utilized. Hinata track Haku in the mirrors and protect against senbon attacks. Kiba for striking and shining for the sneaky kill with his bugs. Kurenai is a master genjutsu user. She only lost to Itachi the highest leveled living Sharigan user at the time. I don’t see how she can’t get him under using his mist to her advantage.
woahhh you got sueykage on this vid? nice man! also thanks for covering zabuza and haku - very good characters from an era where naruto was still about ninjas and not the hidden leaf magicians flinging meteors from outer space or splitting the moon in half
Congrats TG I been watching you for a long time and I knew you’d be successful but even still, not to jock ride but getting a vid with swag is impressive. For the anime community it’s like getting a feature from Drake. Keep it up big dog ✊🏽✊🏽✊🏽
I think Shikamaru would be smart enough to see how Zabuza counters Asuma so would come up with a plan to help. Like say having Choji go giant to break the mirrors, then taking a big breath and blowing the mist Zabuza uses to hide away, allowing Asuma to get close for a kill shot. He would be in charge of also making sure he traps Haku in his shadow possession at that moment too, maybe predicting that Haku might try and save Zabuza and catching him.
38:00 Kiba fang over fang bounce gives him way more mobility and speed than what Sasuke had in the ice mirror Shino's bugs eat at Chakra and the ice mirrors are Chakra. He could stop and mess with Haku's attacks and Haku while smart and tactful he's just like one of those special genins of part 1 slept on.
Nah I get what you're saying but, the Ice Mirrors are just Ice Reinforced with Chakra making them stronger. It'd be like arguing the Bugs could eat a Susanoo arm or something, we also see you can just blatantly overpower the Bugs as KCM Naruto even while Shadow Possesed blows through a group on him so even if they attach they can get kinda negated at a certain point.
@@ThunderGodTGI'm not quite sure what you're saying here. Are you comparing KCM Naruto to Haku here? Their chakra levels are completely different, and no on is arguing that a swarm of Kikaichu, even Shino's, could eat through a Jinnchuriki's chakra. However, the Kikai could eat the chakra reinforcing the ice mirrors, leaving Kiba and Akamaru to smash through the now fragile ice sheets. It would probably take some time to pull off, and Kiba and Shino might get whittled down too much before they could pull it off, but the strategy has merit.
I'm basically saying that at a certain point it is possible to just blaze through them if the object is moving too fast or has too much force like Haku's reflections
Wouldn't the bugs be able to cover a mirror and stop Haku from being able to actually move? The mirrors themselves don't have force of movement and besides being able to repair themselves through using more Chakra, I've never thought of the ice mirrors as having a repulsing effect unless Haku was jumping from said mirror, plus I'm talking about it Shino is on the outside. Wouldn't he be able to just eat away at an Ice Mirror to get Kiba out or idk use Hinata to see where Haku is tracking or find the weakest point in the ice mirrors? I don't think that Haku would lose to Kiba or Shino if he's going all out but Shino is heavily underrated in both utility and brains, with Hinata who is probably the most competent of the Kunoichi at the time (in the leaf)
I'm not sure that Naruto was physically stronger than Gated Lee. In base, he was able to uproot trees. With 4 Gates, he obliterated the floor by running. Sasuke was able to break Gaara's sand armor and Kankuro said that it's much weaker than the shield. When Lee uses the Hidden Lotus, Gaara repeatedly said that the armors coming off, butmost of it stays on. I think Kishimoto didn't really put much thought into the powerscaling. The message seemed to be that Gaara was just stronger than Lee and that he needed to move forward for narrative reasons.
Haku is directly shown to be on par with 6th gate lee and 6th gate guy in the war arc. And Naruto was shown to be Haku's equal after the nine tails leaked out. Naruto's base is also definitely below lee's base, as well as genin lee being weaker than war arc lee. It stands to reason that Naruto had to be not just stronger than gated lee there, but by a ridiculous margin. A margin so large that the question "Could lee even break the mirrors with the 4th gate?" becomes valid.
@@dontmisunderstand6041 while I do like that scan. Unfortunately, it’s not consistent. Even if he was slowed down, Sasuke should never be able to keep up with an opponent who can contend with 6 gates. Which one do we use, because they’re not consistent?
@@cunningfox7838 It is somewhat consistent. The precognitive ability of the sharingan is consistently demonstrated to be extremely strong, to the point that the world's number 1 expert in countering the sharingan's strategy is to be so much faster than the sharingan user that they can't keep up even with the ability to see what's going to happen in the future. The math on that also makes sense when you dig into it. An exceptional athlete in our real world has a reaction time slightly over 0.1 seconds. If the sharingan predicts a mere 1 second into the future, the sharingan user could be 1/10th as fast as that athlete physically and their reaction speed would STILL be faster. We combine this with the fact that Haku was holding back a lot due to a lack of motivation, and also burning through a lot of stamina through the course of a rather lengthy fight where he's spamming a high cost technique... it does seem a bit reasonable. Especially at the end where we are shown Haku's top speed, and it's in an entirely different league from anything he used in the mirror cage. Haku moves so fast that he changes the weather. The air pressure from him moving at top speed cleared out the fog bank that was covering the area... meanwhile his movement didn't even disturb the mist inside the cage. This makes all the more sense when you note that in the war arc Haku is explicitly going all out.
29:04 Also, it's just completely out of character for him to bring the red pill to this mission, they did not know it was going to be a high ranked mission or they wouldn't have been set, it's just he's not gonna have it on him 24/7 for c rank missions
23:10 You just know he'd say some dumb line like "That's the funny thing about mirrors, they reflect everything. Even the shadows..." whilst The Rising Fighting Spirit is just blaring in the background. 😂
Haku was an elite jonin level shinobi If he goes serious he blitzes and kills evey genin, no exception. He blitzed raikiri kakashi for gods sake Zabuza says he is stronger than himself and I believe him. No genin would react to him if he went killer mode.
@@TribeBen even raikage is not lightspeed , they can't catch him in mid air(anime shit never happened in manga) haku based his strategy based on team kakashi, for team guy, he possibly will no be so nice, he possibly attack their chakra point in the first time he got from 3 km away or some other plan) with prep time, his speed, his perfect counter attack for any jutsu(stated), his iq(above kakashi , as he believed that haku is stronger than him) , and again, PREP TIME, he will one shot all the team, make a plan for their abilities, their limits , and even guy team will get ko, just take down guy before he goes into inner gates(like FREAKING Using needles to disable his chakra points, or making water trap or seprate him or something) raikiri was lightning speed, he is light speed(and he only started to move when raikiri was at throat of zabuza)
I really love that you guys included the sound trio, i really like them and i feel no one ever talks about them or includes them in things. I think eardrum blasted haku might lose to the trio, but this relies on dosu being able to land that sound speed attack on a lightspeed opponent. Pre mirrors maybe, but post mirrors no
I think Shikamaru could actually catch Haku pretty easily. All Shikamaru has to do is have his Shadow Possession in the way of where Haku's trying to go. Haku leaves mirror, his shadow hits Shika's, captured. In the final fight against Hidan, Shikamaru shows that the person he catches with his shadow possession does not actually have to be touching their own shadow. Hidan is in mid-air when Shikamaru makes contact, but their shadows against the tree touching is enough to capture him. Therefore, Haku would be snatched out of the air the instant his shadow crosses Shika's, kind of like running into a clothesline. And before any "but he's faster than light" arguments, it doesn't matter how fast you are. Even if you are moving faster than light, the light's already there, and you're still running into some at some point. The shadow you produce would lag behind you rather than be attached, but it would still exist. And again, since Hidan shows us you don't actually have to be in contact with your shadow to get caught, Haku would get caught.
I think you guys neglected hinata pretty hard as i think gentle fist could dismantle the barrier like it dismantled the kidomaru chakra webbing, but i admit it probably wouldn't change anything Hinata could protect them with rotation a few times but the second she starts one tapping mirrors haku will go "oh, guess i should kill her first" and then immediately does so
IMO Shikamaru is smart enough that he'd see Asuma struggling + the mirror situation and before Choji even gets involved would be shouting for the nuclear butterfly option. Choji hard wipes Haku and Shikamaru's shadows + Ino's chakra rope create enough interference for Asuma to hard wipe Zabuza because Asuma's definitely smart enough to stall for his team to back him up in such a stacked fight.
I guess Kiba might be able to dig his way out of the ice dome by digging under it, but idk how escaping helps the situation at all Since temari is a long range fighter, She could support Baki by sending wind blades while defending the bridge builder
1:02:19 Zaku cushions Dosu's fall. The sound genin would definitely work together, they just dont have the care for each other, they arent stupid tho, except for Zaku in a way
23:08 I feel like Shika would trail Haku Shadow but idk if he was skilled enough to get his Shadows off the ground yet. But that could be used for Tracking the real Haku for Mind Transfer or a big Choji hit
I think Team Guy definitely wins; but Guy is certainly needing gates to stop Zabuza. I think Haku goes easy on Neji/Lee. Team Asuma probably wins if Choji has pills, OR Shikamaru can get a good strategy. Asuma meanwhile probably stalemates Zabuza but either Choji/Shikamaru back up, or 1 sudden mind transfer from Ino puts him over the edge. Team Kurenai... Either stomps or gets stomped. IF Kurenai can genjutsu Zabuza effectively, they likely stomp. Haku will sacrifice themself to save Zabuza; and then Zabuza has to fight a jonin (Kurenai) while also avoiding bugs from Shino, and I think Hinata's Byakugan can see through the mist I think the mist just kinda counters Sharingan but doesn't counter byakugan. Byakugan can see through solid walls; no way it can't see through mist. Team Sand? Baki just holds off Zabuza until Gaara beats everyone. Team Sound? I don't know how they could win unless Dosu's tech thing REALLY messes with Haku/Zabuza.
Sand might not even need Gaara. If Temari can keep her wind jutsu up longer than Haku can keep up the mirrors, arguably Haku can’t do much since all his attacks go through the air. Also he’d probably end up using the mirrors on a puppet and spend all his chakra trying to kill it. Though I’m not sure if either of them could deal with Haku’s taijutsu.
@@qwirkt I just don't think they could handle Hakus taijutsu, and I think Haku would attack them with intent to kill unlike Sasuke and Naruto whom he related to emotionally. I'm just like based of Zabuzas statements and a couple of Hakus feats like blocking the lightning blade, and keeping up with war arc characters? I just don't think a serious Haku wouldn't be able to beat Temari and Kankuro. Kankuro scales pretty evenly with Shino, and Temari with Shikamaru... They're strong but I don't think they're surviving a serious Haku. Just neither one has a surprise power house or anything to turn the fight around. Really only stall, except Gaara.
@@daymianhogue1634 they need gaara. Kankuro is useless in that fog. Temari can clear the dog but she’s a big target and defenseless with that big ass fan and water every where.
@@daymianhogue1634 yeah that would be my base case as well. Still, they might stand a chance if they strategize well. War Arc Haku had the edo tensei chakra boost which might have counted for something.
Two things: 1.) Assuming Shikimaru or Choji are able to stop Zabuza and hold him in place long enough for Ino to use Mind Body Disturbance, Zabuza could quickly be stopped. All they have to do is make him chuck his sword into the water and Zabuza is effectively disarmed. If Kurenai has some method to make Zabuza believe that they are somewhere else in the mist, which, if we're going off of common Genjutsu techniques, they could do some sort of Danzo situation where they trick Zabuza into attacking an illusion and then they can strike him from behind.
I think that you should also have counted the demon brothers as part of mission, as they where working for Zabuza during the Bridge Mission. Though given that they jobbed so hard, I don't think it is your fault to forget about them.
I see choji being strong enough to get Shikimaru or Ino an opening. Asume getting a draw or injuring Zabuza so bad the kids have a fighting chance against him. Asume is smart enough to know he's gonna lose and leave Shikamura a chance. Also I see Team 8 running. Like the Sensei knows she isn't that strong and she has important clan kids to keep alive. I see them turning back after the demon brothers. If they reach Zabuza then she genjustus him and they run the bridge builder to wave and then leave. Mission is reach wave not wait for bridge to be built. If he dies after their mission is done oh well. I don't think she's dumb enough to risk her kids knowing her own power level.
The sand village is super underrated in terms of the power of their Shinobi. Their millitary weakness comes from a lack of manpower not skilled ninja. Baki should probably beat Zabuza.
@@lapplandkun9273 It just feels ridiculous to say that the strongest active Jonin of any of the 5 villages is getting stomped by the guy that was getting whooped by a rusty part 1 Kakashi.
@@hobbyhorse5848 It's not ridiculous. Zabuza is the strongest swordsman excluding Kisame. He was Anbu. He lost to Kakashi who is the strongest Leaf Ninja. People always say Kakashi was rusty, but he was winning about to defeat him with the sharingan. Then on the bridge. Zabuza was the rusty one cause he was in a coma that Haku put him so he wasn't 100% either. Zabuza's loss is more impressive than Baki's win. Also Zabuza has a better arsenal with silent killing + mist which Baki can't see or hear him. And Zabuza has the advantage in the land of WATER. Realistically Zabuza has the edge in speed AND power AND ninjutsu.
@@hobbyhorse5848 the rusty narrative is pretty flawed. Kakashi is no joke and one of the top Jonin in the village. Kakashi even says during his fight with Zabuza “it’s been a long time since I faced someone this tough” clearly stating he’s a massive threat. Also, Zabuza would of killed Kakashi if it weren’t for Naruto’s plan
Ino could help Asuma and then he would 100%win, while zabuza is storng he is on similar level to him and Ino just has to see him to make Asuma wins. Team kurenai could win, as they are the best suited to counter their assassination techniques. Shino could have bugs fly around and found and attack Haku way before she can even act. He can also completely counter zabuza mist. Shikamaru could detect them way before they appear so whole team could be ready. So they could simply make a trap where shikamaru would attack with his drill move before haku creates mirrors and shino would harm his and take enough shakra to weaken her. We could even have hinata block some amount of his chakra. Then that would leave Kurenai that could get zabuza in genjutsu before he can do anything. Shino could attack both at the same time so zabuza under genjutsu would be unable to defend from bugs. Kurenai could also make bugs looks like normal mist so zabuza would just die. I think that Kurenai team actually has the best chance against them. They have 3 detection ninja, 1 genjutsu, 1 ninja that could weaken both at the same time and seriously harm them and hinata that could block some of their chakra while they are under genjutsu. I actualy dont see how zabuza and haku could attack them without getting detected or attack them by surprise, mirrors would not matter as haku could be trapped in genjutsu at the same time or not be let to even use it.
There's no shot at all that Shino wouldn't be guarding Tazuna. He's he long range striker of the group. He'd be capable of participating in both fights while also defending the bridge builder. Honestly, it's more likely that they wouldn't even have gotten to this fight in the first place, since they could have killed Zabuza in the forest. Shino uses his insects to annihilate Zabuza's Chakra when he imprisons Kurenai, and then if Haku tries his shit Hinata can use her Byakugan to confirm Zabuza is alive. If Haku resists, he's now in a 4 v 1 and Kurenai can genjutsu him without anyone to help him escape, or it would take him long enough to escape so that Shino could surround him with insects to drain his chakra. But let's just say that they do make it to the bridge, it's actually unlikely that any of them leave Tazuna unattended. So they might all be trapped in the mirror dome, in which case Shino covers them all with insects or gathers some spiders to web it up and nullify the jutsu anyway. Zabuza can't sneak up on them since Shino can make a cloud of insects that will notify him when Zabuza is moving, and he can also deliver poison through the insects on top of everything else. He's just a perfect counter.
I think I'd actually give a decent shout to Shikamaru+Ino being able to cheese out Zabuza, or even Ino potentially being able to snag him while he's fighting Asuma
What about that the ultimate fanfic Shikamaru solution: Making the Leaf Village and investor in the bridge to intimidate Gato to not ef around and find out?
TenTen is the most underused character even in the hypotheticals. Like she could at least give Lee a Sledgehammer or something, It always felt weird that they barely made use of her weapons instead of just throwing them
The only issue I have with the smack talk about Guy beating Zabuza, is assuming Zabuza is going to head on Guy. We saw Kakashi had to be hyper observant and in the end had to rely on his dogs to even find Zabuza. Zabuza doesn't attack head on, he appears and swiftly strikes down opponents in one move.
I love to see a video explaining about Every Village military status and if war broke out between them especially the Leaf vs Cloud village since they are the 2 country who have extremely powerful ahinobi and large military that would be very interesting topic😁.
I would give Team Sand an A+. Temari will abolutely just blow the mist away, and then Zabuza is stuck fighting someone with tricks specifically for killing swordsmen, all while Temari and Kankuro also attack him. They don't even have to worry about getting in Baki's way since Kankuro can just fight at range with his puppet and Temari just wrecks Zabuza's day whenever he tries water justu or more mist. ThunderGod - "The Sound Genin don't care about each other and will just abandon each other to die." Also ThunderGod - *shows pics from the fight where Dosu saved Zaku from Lee's Lotus attack* Dosu isn't stupid enough to abandon a comrade to die against a superior foe in a scenario where fleeing to save his own life isn't an option. That said, yeah, Haku packs them up. Even if Dosu blew Haku's eardrums, it wouldn't actually stop Haku from putting up the ice mirrors. Hean just buy them time, and that time is up the moment Haku notices Zabuza is struggling. Really, the question is, "Can Zabuza survive Kabuto long enough for Haku to come and turn it into a 2v1?"
Swagkage? Damn, bro is actually kinda back. Also in the fight including InaShikaCho and Asuma, Ino could help with Zabuza (though that leaves Tazuna open) using Mind-Transfer at the start of the fight.
Someone explain why TG sound like a feature on his own channel 😂
You were letting swag cook
He's done a lot of debate type content in the past, it's just how he talks. You really have to cut in if you have something to add, otherwise he doesnt really slow down. Even still, you had plenty of solid points when you did jump in❤
What if Obito had the long range kamui and the eye he gave Kakashi was the self kamui one
😂
I mean could Kurenai even infect Zabuzza through the mist? also fuck you send a Water Dragon at her she dead.
The phrase “Choji takes the red pill” is so damn funny
Based, choji😂
Choji Tate 😎
Now Choji sees….
Now I need this animated choji gym journey
Choji takes the red pill. His enemy takes the dead pill
Lowkey Shikamaru using the reflection of shadows to capture Haku is exactly the kind of genius shit I could see him pulling off if Kishimoto allowed it.
Shikamaru Carries flash bombs (flash bangs) with him. Now imagine he sets one off in the middle of all the mirrors. That would make haku have multiple shadows from every direction because the light would bounce off all the mirrors. Haku would have a shadow from practically every angle 😂.
@@spit-fire Shika solos Haku? 😮
💀
@@spit-firelight from all directions makes less shadows
@@Akbar_and_Shaa practically every direction, not literally. It’s like how at night if you walk past multiple street lights and it gives you a shadow for each one
light doesn’t produce shadows only the object emitting from then do
I think a MAJOR way sakuras character could’ve been improved is if she was the one who figured out zabuza wasn’t dead. Looked into the technique and acupuncture points and learned how to do it. It’s perfect for her fighting style and think she could’ve used something in part 1.
This is an excellent comment
too bad the author failed completely to make sakura look like a ninja in part 1
W idea
She’s a medic ninja, she SHOULD know that!
@@crowsenpai5625She didn't become one until the end of part 1.
The fact that naruto was commenting on how shino couldve really been amazing on the sasuke retrieval mission despite everything he has done and the stuff hes seen sasuke do against gaara makes me feel like shino could really be "that guy" and pull out a dub against haku.
It’s a bit difficult to asses how strong Shino is because the only time we see him fight in Part 1 is against someone he has a great matchup with. I don’t think Shino could do anything about Hakus speed. Parasitic insects should be able to eat the ice mirrors though.
@@hobbyhorse5848Shino probably couldn't compete with speed, but the dome could actually help Shino. Haku will be staying in that area so I could see Shino just spawn camping all mirrors with beetle ambushes. Haku surprises people by attacking fast from mirrors that people don't know he's in. Shino can just setup on every mirror.
Shino is Kankuro tier. He’s not that great
@@jonathanhayhurst3928 Kankuro in part 1 is weird to scale but he should be in the upper mid level of Genin, above Kiba, base Choji, Shikamaru, etc. I just don’t think Shinos bug shields are that great and would fail against precision based needles, he probably takes the fall while his bugs destroy the mirrors. But Haku also just can’t be tagged by them at all and he probably just KOs them all and snipes Kurenai before or if she kills Zabuza.
@@hobbyhorse5848 if Haku had any bugs on or in him then Shino would likely know which mirror Haku was truly in. I think he would be a pretty hard counter.
Honestly I wish Neji, Shino, and Shikamaru were on a team or at least had a couple missions together. Those 3 would be an absolute POWERHOUSE as Genin.
Neji, Shino and Sasuke would be monsterous. They are all smart enough to not even need the strategist.
@@mechs4life Gonna be honest, I don't like the idea of Sasuke being on this team. I actually think in that case, Naruto would be a better fit. Neji kinda does what Sasuke can in a sense and has that sort of similar personality. In that case Naruto might actually be a better fit. Shino and Neji can keep him in line, and the two would push Naruto in a more positive light to improve. Plus Naruto adds that Much Chakra, that the two could be lacking.
How do you even counter a team like that truly? You have Naruto that just runs into anyone blindly and just tanks massive damage. You have Neji and his visual prowess with his high IQ. And then you have Shino and his long range ability and genius not to mention Shino can eat at your chakra while your distracted on Naruto and his 1000 shadow clones.
@@Trottskee Not to mention that Naruto while not very bright at the beggining was still capable of thinking outside of the box like when he did the two shuriken clone strike or when he defeated Kiba by disguising as his pet Akamaru or when he used a clone to fake his defeat against Neji. Sasuke on the other hand was the perfect soldier, capable of understanding most plans with a simple glare and use his superiority in order to defeat most enemies.
Imo Neji and Sasuke were pretty much the same type of character early on, so you can take any of them and it would've yielded the same results. But Shikamaru and Naruto are pretty much a duo made in heaven, just add Rock Lee to compensate their physical power and that's it, you got a succesful mission.
@@Shoundaime As I do believe Naruto and Shikamaru make a good duo, I honestly don’t see what Shikamaru adds other than superior intellect, which when you have the likes of Shino and Neji together, I don’t think Shikamaru is needed.
I think Neji would’ve been a better teammate rival for Naruto, than Sasuke, as at least Neji never would’ve left the village at I actually think Neji would’ve changed for the better because of Naruto and vice versa.
Genin Shino > Genin Sakura any day, and Shino overall adds that ranged utility that anyone fighting these three would have to really be scared of. And even if they did get close to Shino, we’ve seen what happens and how that’s not a great idea.
Overall, as I do see your thought process, I just really think the three of Naruto, Neji, and Shino would simply outclass any other three you put together. As Neji would’ve Pushed Naruto to actually become better, rather than only to stay one step ahead of Sasuke which just wasn’t good enough. Neji would push Naruto the same way he did for Rock Lee. The only reason I take Neji over Rock Lee however, is because then Shino would be carrying the intellect on this team, and I don’t think Shino is the type to stop Rock Lee and Naruto from doing dumb stuff. So it’s just kinda imbalanced.
The only next three I can see actually giving this team a run for it’s money would be Sasuke, Rock Lee, and Shikamaru, but Shino imo hard counters Shikamaru, Neji was already said to have beaten Rock Lee before, and Naruto just needs to stall Sasuke long enough. Though even if Sasuke won, I don’t think Hidden Mist arc Sasuke beats Shino or Neji. But yeah that’s my reasonings
In defense of Kurenai, Zabuza has displayed a weakness to genjutsu, of which Kurenai is a master level user.
How can she genjustu what she can't see (i.e., mist jutsu technique)?
Is she’s a master what is itachi ?
There are levels to even master for one. For two, i call uchiha hacks. He is granted the title genjutsu master msinly because he has the sharingan. Are we really gonna keep comparing Kurenai to one of the strongest people in the verse of Naruto like its actually fair?@itachi16ful
@@xavierthomas5835 I’m just saying She’s more like a specialist Not a master. There are others who are just good while she’s really good at it. Not sure why, you’re making a deal with your last point when it’s literally kishimoto who compared them to (probably to show just how powerful itachi is). While she’s good at it, itachi is a master that’s capable of putting kakashi in the hospital with an genjutsu and stopping orochimaru someone who almost destroyed the entire leaf village. It’s more like itachi’s hacks he was a genius who had an answer for almost every thing his opponent threw at him.
@itachi16ful most of his greatest showings of genjutsu come from his use of wither genjutsu sharingan or tsukuyomi. The problem I have with calling him a master is the dame problem people have with Naruto's use of the rasengan. Are we going to call Naruto a master of ninjutsu because he uses almost every version kekkei genkai available to ninja and several different variations of ONE jutsu? The same can be applied to many of the Uchiha. They're strong, certainly, and itachi is a genius. However we can safely say that what kurenai accomplishes without the inherited has of sharingan is mastery in and of itself. It's just that there are levels
44:56 to add on to that, Genma has completed 454 B-rank, 74 A-rank, 2 S-rank missions and is still alive. That’s 530 life threatening battles with other joinin he’s come out from. He has one of the best records in the leaf, just being behind people like kakashi and Guy
D rank missions expect no combat at all. C rank expects only combat against non-shinobi. B rank is the lowest rank where shinobi v shinobi combat is expected, this likely indicates they're not expecting jonin combatants.
@@dontmisunderstand6041 I know, but why would it be expected then? That means it’s more likely than not. Even low ball by 40% and it’s still impressive
@@spit-fire I think what they meant was that with B-rank missions you can expect combat against shinobi, but not necessarily jonin. You'd think that they'd put chunin-level combatants and jonin-level combatants in separate tiers given the implied strength difference, so B-rank missions probably mostly involve fighting chunin. This would also make sense given that B-rank missions are typically assigned to chunin, and A-rank missions are reserved for jonin.
@@Kyro4Productions oh shit, good point
MOM!!! GET THE CAMERA!!! IT’S FINALLY HAPPENING!!!!
But... It's a recorded video already.
Inside joke me and Kaamiks are very good friends in IRL
@Paul W based 1994 insult
*scream in zach hadel*
We have cameras at home
Would the byakugan be able to see through Haku faking Zabuza's death? If it does then team Gai could essentially just end it there and not even have the bridge fight at all.
Yes it would. Good point
Technically team Gai and team 8 would both have the advantage in that moment, by both having Hyuga’s
Damn, the death trick even tricked Kakashi’s Sharingan.
I guess the Byakugan would do the trick.
If we're talking the first encounter... Kakashi straight up lost to Zabuza and was rescued by the genin. There's no reason to believe *any* of the other jonin could outperform Kakashi there, as Kakashi was using sharingan to see through Zabuza's mist and clone jutsu, and STILL got outplayed. Guy can use the gates to escape the water prison, possibly. Team 10 is basically the best possible team to break the water prison, specifically because it roots the caster in place, meaning both Ino and Shikamaru could individually save Asuma. Team Kurenai, Shino straight up kills Zabuza if Zabuza even tries the water prison. Standing still is a death sentence against the parasitic beetles.
Not just that but Shikamaru would deduce this and not only that Kiba can smell them out and know Haku was there from the start. Hinata byakugan is stronger than Nejis aswell so they are gonna know of Haku and jump on him immediately. Shikamaru will have prep timed that fight before it happens and planned to neutralize them both. That pre fight skirmish is gonna lean this heavily into all the other teams favor. In fact Haku and Zabuza probably doesn't make it past the first encounter with some of them because they are gonna apply a lot of pressure on Zabuza
5:50 Actually, Neji doesn't have Rotation during the Zabuza arc. It's a skill he learns between the preliminaries and the Chuunin exam finals. We see him training it with Tenten and her being impressed.
I think that’s anime only Manga there’s no reason he wouldn’t
@@Fallen-gryphon We do see him training it but it isn’t said if he learned it recently or anything.
To be fair to Kurenai the itachi thing isn't really as much of an antifeat as people seem to think. It's actually pretty impressive because I'm pretty sure she is the only person in the whole series who manages to catch itachi in a genjutsu even if he reversed it on her. The fact that she caught the guy who is the strongest genjutsu user for a majority of the series in a genjutsu at all is kinda crazy. On top of that she managed to break out after itachi reversed it on her before he could even hit her.
I know people meme on kurenai allot, but her feats against itachi do actually give us a pretty decent idea of what she's capable of.
She didn't catch him though, Itachi let her think she caught him but she was already in the genjutsu. He even says "Genjutsu of that level doesn't work on me". Doesn't work means it did not work thus she neve caught him at all. She was a trash Jonin in comparison to the vast majority of Jonin level ninja we see in the show.
@@Ronfost89I agree more with this. Itachi was literally playing around with the Konoha jonin with the exception of Kakashi - he actually incapacitates Kakashi.
She was the strongest genjutsu user of konoha at the time :/ she's not even close to Itachi but she was the best genjutsu user konoha had after the Uchiha fell
@@scars5505 i mean he _does_ get caught in it. We literally see it happen. He just has the sharingan, so he can instantly see through and reverse genjutsu. It's still an impressive feat that she could ensnare him at all.
@CelestialStar46 she's stated to be the best genjutsu user in konoha. Even tho she has no feats in screen, if she really is or not that depends, but she's a Jounin and is a genjutsu user, so her abilities with genjutsu are at the very least an elite shinobi's level
One thing not being brought up in this video. The veil of mist was not just a random decision by Zabuza. Zabuza stated that Haku was great at thinking up countermeasures to jutsu, that's why he picked out the veil of mist to counter the sharingan. With other techniques Haku would probably think of different strategies, and if nothing came to mind... they'd probably just bail.
That being said... not sure about ehat could be a good match up for some.
Kurenai and Asuma are quite easy (they just have to protect against theirs specialty), but for Guy and Gaara... I cant really see something they could use against it since their jutsus is tailor made to ignore the weaknessess of their fight style.
THEORICALLY you could stall Guy and Lee but... that's not really realistic.
@@albertonishiyama1980Obviously Guy's team would win in a pretty significant manner, but I personally don't see Kurenai and Asuma's team really holding up in comparison to Kakashi's.
shikamaru is the only part of his team doing anything. ino is just as useless as sakura was and choji even moreso.
temari can wind blast mist away like its yusuke vs bakken without the arbitrary 5 shot limit so shes invaluable. kankuro i cant see a big advantage of having around aside from a meat shield. gaara needs no introduction.
neji could make some good use out of byakugan but i doubt its going to outplay sharingan too much at this point. rock lee has a definite speed advantage just by dropping weights, if he opened gates hes definitely wiping the floor with haku. ten ten might block a needle with a kunai or something.
hinata and kiba both are trash at this point. shino would have to solo
gunna have to give it up to gaara and friends just for kankuro being infinitely more useful than ten ten
@@GhengizKanye Honestly Haku's pretty damn inconsistent in speed in general, since he has feats that put him compareable/above even Gated Lee, but also anti-feats that put him below incomplete Sharingan Sasuke.
So Lee vs Haku really depends on how fast Haku decides to get, but Lee likely wins as long as he goes all out from the get-go.
@@nirjhar4803 yeah i never take any anime/manga at face value. idk of any that are consistent when it comes to power scaling after early dbz or yu yu hakusho dark tournament arc. but id certainly give it that lee just dropping weights and scaring the shit out of gaara is enough to let me know him being a year ahead of team 7 in experience and having a slightly better sasuke on his team is a huge advantage. plus ten ten still MIGHT block a needle.
I feel like it's well in shino's characters to pull a million beetles outta no where to cover all the mirrors. It would probably be situation where Kiba is inside the mirrors breaking them over and over with fang over fang but not really getting anywhere when all of a sudden all the mirrors start to go black and shino appears and reveals that he's been breeding bugs on the sidelines. After that Haku pretty much gets devoured
Shino might be able to just fill the air with mirrors, though I assume Haku can just shoot needles from the mirror he is in until he gets a hit
exactly
Kiba wouldn't need to do that. Him and Akomaru would be able to smell Haku and just keep flying at him.
But he I guess I ice user wouldn’t the bugs freeze
If Hinata is given the same mental amp she had against Neji, then her and Shino make a decent combo against Haku. Kiba is best at Kurenai's side to help her track Zabuza within the mist, and honestly he might not be completely useless in combat as Asuma hyped him up a bit. And if Kiba is in the fight against Haku, smoke bombs are part of his arsenal which are help in surviving Crystal Ice Mirrors.
Given Kiba’s personality he totally jumps into the mirrors tho
@@qwirkt I think only if Akamaru is trapped in there
Lol what mental amp neji was toying her the entire time. She was the weakest link of team kurenai. Since she is a female and shy she'd have Sakura role
@@maadtee6281 you should really go back and rewatch Naruto
@@blueblade6174 I've seen it a lot of times and it even stated that in chunin exams hinata was the weakest link in team kurenai and we see neji was toying with her
In defense of Shino, I think it’s very plausible he would just flood the entire area with bugs, blocking haku’s vision and escaping the mirror trap with kiba. Also would it be possible he would have the chakra eating bugs just eat the mirrors since they are made of chakra?
I think it depends on how cold-resistant Shino's bugs are. Since the mirrors are cold enough to resist being melted by fire jutsu, it's possible that the bugs would just freeze on contact if they tried to eat them. And Haku might be able to nullify the insects by lowering the ambient temperature, since most insects can't really function in the cold and have to hibernate or migrate during winter.
Dude, there's no way that's happening. One shino is limited about the amount of insects you can summon two Haku can legit Kill all of his insects one by one. If he tries this before they can steal any chakra from him. We saw this with Naruto shadow clones he destroyed hundreds before saskue could react that's not something to forget that won't work However, if it is 3 of them combined supporting each they could maybe escape but it'd be a very tough fight and I think they would more have to rely on kurnai using genjutsu from afor to throw his senses off and attack in that moment. Which is possible
I'm still getting to that part in the video, but is it possible that Shino beetles that he used against zaku would work on a kekkai genkai? If haku restores the mirror using chakra, and it is still a jutsu, they should work.
@pokemoose483 we just don't know the ice mirror could very well be to strong defense wise for them to burrow into to steal the chakra
I think Kiba wouldn't even get inside the mirror, Shino would deal with Haku from inside fairly well with his bugs and Kiba would use his jutsu to try to break the mirrors from outside, or the 2 headed dog since that jutsu is also pretty strong
As a note, Neji did not have the ability to perform Rotation until right before the finale of the chunin exams. If we're assuming that the fight would take place in universe at the same time as it did in the canon timeline, then neji would probably have a much harder time with Haku.
It was never confirmed Neji couldn’t use rotation till the Chunin exams. It was just the first time we seen him (side character) use the rotation. Keep in mind he is 1/2 years older than Naruto
@@astekkwrld6986 It is all but confirmed when we see him training with Tenten in episode 55 in the forest. He says the he has used "too much of his chakra" with a crater being created in the ground in a circle around him. This is an imperfect rotation, as the jutsu, when perfected, does not produce this circular crater. Although this doesn't confirm he can't use it prior to the Chunin exams, he definitely does not have a mastery over it to the extent where he could pull it off perfectly mid battle multiple times against an opponent like Haku.
He could use it from early on, we saw him fighting Hiashi and Hiashi was shocked that Neji could do rotation, and was jealous that Neji of a lower brand was the one given talent amongst the Hyuga.
Another related point is that if we scale Guy down as much as Kakashi, i.e. assume that they improved at the same rate throughout the series, then maybe this Guy is MUCH weaker than considered in the video. Though he probably still stomps because he should already be proficient with gates.
Is that right? I didn't think Neji had to train to use the rotation.
Zabuza and haku low key the best villains of Naruto pt 1, mainly because they helped cement Naruto’s way, plus they had a really good backstory and embody the emotional impact of a ninja world. Also I serverly miss the strategies involved in a Shinobi battle, but now the strategy is to use dbz style jutsu that destroy continents
You mentioned this topic on stream a while ago and I'm glad you got to talk about it. This was a really fun video. Here's my two cents: It's a little bizarre to suggest the conditions would be the same as against Team Kakashi and I would have liked you guys to touch on why the Genin squads compositions are set up the way they are. It only matters specifically for Team Kurenai and partially for Team Asuma.
Team Kurenai is exclusively sensor scout types. The idea of them getting separated like that doesn't seem likely and Zabuza can't hide from any of them. Kiba, while not amazingly impressive, does have a really solid AP feat in being able to damage the Rashomon Gate. If Choji gets his pills, Kiba absolutely gets Twin Headed Wolf which can probably do some damage to the ice mirrors. The real reason that Team Kurenai can not lose this is because even if you set the conditions to Team Kakashi where they are separate, there is no way for them to force the 1v1 because of Shino. Shino won every fight by ignoring the obvious target and sending the bugs to remove the opponent's win condition. Zabuza will be caught by Kurenai's genjutsu once, which is a win if Haku doesn't break him out for two reasons. One, Kurenai just assassinates him on her own like she was going to do to Itachi. Two, if Shino's bugs get to the paralyzed Zabuza, his chakra is sapped and he's out of the fight and there's no way for Haku to prevent that. If Haku goes to break Zabuza out of the genjutsu, then the 1v1 condition is broken. If Haku gets put in the genjutsu by Kurenai, the fight is over for the same reasons as Zabuza.
Team Asuma is the most interesting, as discussed. I wonder if they would switch targets at the start. I don't know if Zabuza can avoid being dismantled by InoShikaCho, which is the entire point of the squad. Even if Asuma can't manage to survive against Haku, I think Ino's Mind Transfer on Zabuza makes Haku surrender. I think Asuma beats Zabuza with minor difficulty but might not be able to beat Haku at all. Giving Choji his pills means that he solos the fight, but they might not even need that.
Other than that, I agree for the most part. Guy and Gaara clean stomp. I don't think Kabuto can beat Haku at all.
Either way, great video.
Someone actually mentioned that Kiba point, and my only issue is that it's heavily implied he doesn't know the technique at this point as post this arc he's shown practicing the Dyanmic Marking used predominantly with the Three headed Wolf. We definitely could have given it to Kiba which may just have been oversight on our part but, that was the logic with that decision. Appreciate the support!
@ThunderGod That's completely fair. There's quite a bit of story complications with this anyway. It just seemed unfair to me to take Choji's pills as given, but Kiba's feats from the same point in time were overlooked. Neither seem like they're the make or break factors in the outcome of the fight anyway.
@@ThunderGodTGWell, considering every genin got a power up from their Chuunin Exams selves to their Sasuke Retrieval selves, and Choji's was the calorie pills, you could infer that he only was given them after the chuunin exams. Also, you guys say Neji has access to the Rotation, but I think he only learned that technique right before the Chuunin exams. It just seems that you guys have Neji and Choji things they wouldn't have access to, while restricting Kiba the same courtesy.
I agree largely. Except I think team asuma all dies. Haku should be viewed as a guy with a gun imo. I think the professional murderer uses higher speed to kill all asuma’s genin before they have a chance to land their fancy techniques.
Choji won’t have time to eat a pill before getting needles through his eyes or neck.
It took all Sasuke’s skills just to keep him and Naruto alive for a few seconds.
Only lee and maybe neji can match that with seeing the attack and reacting fast enough to escape fatal damage, and they are older. They can likely survive long enough for guy to beat zabuza and help them. Even the sand genin only win because of high defense (2 of the 3 in any case)
Valid point with the tracking and survival team avoiding the fight and calling backup. It’s probably difficult to chase an illusionist, and kiba can carry the bridge builder on his dog
I almost agree with you. I think Team Kurenai has the best chance (after team guy). HOWEVER I don't see them or the other teams winning. No one is shown being able to see through the mist with dojutsu iirc. They have to be sensory or use other senses. Hinata might be useless. It's The Mist + Silent Killing. So no sight or hearing their attacks. Kurenai was already shown in a situation where she cant see lol (Kakashi vs Itachi) but here she can't see or hear Zabuza coming. She will not do well in this scenario either. Her genjustsu would work but Zabuza can break out and if he doesn't he still probably survives whatever attack she uses because he was consciouss with swords and kunai in his back. She's the strongest ninja of all of them. Kiba/Akamaru have heightened senses but they still can't see Haku or Zabuza. They probably hear him though. Kakashi's dogs used smell but they didn't smell Zabuza he instead used a high IQ strat that Kiba probably won't think of. Shino's bugs probably just get negated by water style realistically speaking. They might do something but I can't see Haku/Zabuza not finding a counter or dodging. They also are just faster, stronger, smarter more experienced than all of them.
Just a small note of Kurenai, she had some fights vs the Kurama clan arc in the original Naruto that showcased some of her genjutsu fighting abilities. Most people don’t even know about it, considering it’s filler and near the end of the series
Filler doesn't count
@@Theta117t doesn’t but considering her only other fight was not only inconclusive but basically impossible to scale her with- yeah using filler should be fine there
@@mezasepkmn lol no filler doesn't count at all.
@@mezasepkmn no, in no way does filler count.
@@mezasepkmndont listen to them, the only ones who says filler doesn’t count are neckbeards
FINALLY the collab of the year
W! Really appreciate that man that's super kind of you
Asuma v.s. Zabuza, you have to take into account that Asuma, also has this Shikamaru strategic mind, so his fight against Zabuza would last long and considering that Shikamaru could understand pretty quickly how the mirrors work and use Choji to destroy them. Shikamaru could even realize that Zabuza is a serious thread to Asuma, making him doing it as quick as possible with Haku. Catching Haku with the shadows that are everywhere and command Choji to end it quickly with a big super inflaton smack on trapped Haku. Asuma with back up from Shikamaru would be very serious for Zabuza.
The fact that Tenten got no love is painful. One thing Tenten could do in this fight is counter the senbon from the mirrors. She spawns as many weapons as Haku does ice needles. She could keep those at bay.
But is she fast enough to react to Haku?
@@tums1997 I feel like she would probably be on the outside, throwing shuriken through the mirrors as interference.
@@tums1997 assuming she's on the same place as sakura, she could just summon the biggest weapon she could and tried to break the mirror.
@@lolcall5295 Sasuke, used the fireball Jutsu on the mirror, but it didn’t do s**t to it.😂
@@cherishporter5314 i didn't say she could destroy it, i said she could TRIED to break it 🤣. Hey at least she can do something and not just stand there like sakura.
I think team Gai wins for sure. Team Asuma I think squeezes out a W as well but it could go either I think you guys brought up some good points in that one. Team Kurenai I don’t think has enough from a lead standpoint with Kurenai because we have to assume too much with her. Kiba and Shino have the potential to make the haku fight interning in my opinion and hinata depends on whether she is motivated or not
I think team guy is less clear cut than they make it. Lee wouldn't "show up late" to be able to attack the mirrors from the outside mirrors the same way Naruto did when he snuck into them, his character isn't like that. He'd likely get trapped inside the mirrors at the same time as Neji. It all entirely depends on if you think Lee can break through mirrors with gate usage, and we honestly don't know. Rotation will work as long as Neji has Chakra. The best argument for Guy's team is that maybe Guy can take Zabuza out quicker than Kakashi could, and then HE'D be able to break through the mirrors after, or MAYBE weightless Lee is fast enough to keep up with Haku, and that combined with Neji's Byakugan would be enough to get them the w.
@@HomeCookinMTG lee would for sure be able to keep up with haku, even if its just dodging, even sasuke was able to dodge towards the end and lee is faster than sasuke.
Neji would probably be able to see haku trough the mirrors, so he will always know where the attacks come from and i see him being able to dodge most of the attacks aswell.
Guy would easily beat zabuza and once zabuza has been defeated, haku has no reason to keep fighting.
@@joey-desu Sasuke was using the sharingan to dodge, lee eyes aren't as sharp as Sasuke's. I do think they would win I just don't think it would be super easy for them like people are making it out to be. It isn't as if neji would be able to just Spam rotation in close-quarters to lee like that, and it's kind of hard to quantify how strong haku truly is. He was holding back against Naruto and Sasuke.
@@HomeCookinMTG yes sasuke used his sharingan which helped a lot but speedwise hes no match for lee... before the chunin exam lee and sasuke had a little fight where sasuke was able to see lee´s attack but his body wasnt fast enough to react, while he was able to dodge all the haku attacks after just awakening his sharingan, and keep in mind that lee probably had his weights on + lee can open the gates to get even faster.
Haku was holding back but i doubt his speed would get anywhere close to lee. I feel liek a big part of hakus holding back was just to intentionally not hit any vital spots cuz he didnt want them to die.
Also keep in mind lee and neji both have been genin for a year already so they have much more experience and had more time to train.
For neji i doubt he would even need to use his rotation, in the neji vs kidomaru fight he was able to fight off a lot of spiders without having to use his rotation, by just taijutsu and him knowing where they come from thanks to his byakugan, since haku only threw his needles i feel like neji could keep up and deflect, staying in pure defense mode.
I dont think neji nor lee would have enough power to break out of the ice tho, they would need to be in defense until guy was done with zabuza, unless lee opens his 5 gates but even then he barley dealt damage to gaara so idk how strong the ice would be compared to gaaras sand.
@@joey-desu Haku is shown to be on par with 6th gate lee's and 6th gate guy's speed. In fact, the implication is that Haku is *faster* than them though relative enough for them to block him, with it being directly shown that lee was slower than guy. Lee isn't even in the same tier as Haku at this point in the story, speed-wise.
In the case of Kurunai's squad:
When it comes to genjutsu, its not just a matter of inflicting pain, its a case of figuring out how the genjutsu is affecting all 5 senses, create a new sensation under your own control (in most cases self inflicted pain) and using that instant to straighten out your internal chakra network. Its all about chakra control.
Additionally The Haku fight being Kiba and Shino I dont think is the correct call. Shino works much better back lines as support. The Byakugon is far better from awakening at tracking and perception, so Even at her fastest Hinata would be able to track haku and her gentle fist would be ideal with shattering the ice mirrors, having her be support for Kiba would be a winnable setup, or at least a winning distraction as Shino sneaks a beetle onto Haku
TG, you're a good UA-camr. You're humble, generous, have great energ, and work well with others.
You also started doing more research to your videos a while back, probably about the Shino vs. Sound Four video, which improved the quality. Then you add in the great topics, and that makes for some very good to great content.
Just keep making these videos my guy.
The thing is if Itachi wasn't an Uchiha, didn't have the sharingan, I don't think he would have been able to break out of her genjutsu. Still the fact that she was even able to place him under it, and it working for a bit was quite an impressive feat
Considering she was able to break out of it and Itachi has insane genjutsu without Sharingan (namely finger genjutsu), I’d say he’d still be fine.
Kabuto moving with a jumbled control system will always be one of the most ridiculously slept on things in this series.
"Ok, so if I try to move my left leg, my right eye twitches, but if I try to twitch my right eye, my ears wiggle....Got it! Lessgooo!"
This was a really interesting topic that you two did, would love to see more collabs like this in the future 👍
I love Swagkages name. The Kage from the village hidden in the sawg.
In defense of Zabuza, Guy says that him and Kakashi are rivals. If Kakashi had difficulty with Zabuza, I don’t see zero gate Guy being able to just waltz in there and get out unscathed.
Guy said he is stronger, and once Kakashi gets mad he actually starts beating Zabuzas ass BAD
@@gabrielparanormalchildhood7559 Zabuza was a mess after watching Haku die. He hesitated to cut through him to kill Kakashi. You really think Kakashi didn’t take it seriously when his and his entire squads life could end in an instant? Get out of here
@@beebobber546 Kakashi wasn't taking Zabuza seriously at first, he was playing around, smiling at Naruto an Sakura being funny. Once he got caught slipping being stupid he got water prisoned. But ONCE HE GOT REALEASED BY NARUTO AND SASUKE, ZABUZA GETS BASICALLY GENJUTSUED GG MID DIFFED. ALSO Kakashi said he hadn't trained since he was an anbu in his teens, so he even says he is a little rusty, because of his depression. Team 7 is his first actual team so he has no mentoring experience, he was goofing but once his kids were in danger he CLOWNED zabuza.
@@gabrielparanormalchildhood7559 you’d have a great argument if Kakashi didn’t immediately stop Naruto from charging at him and doing something dumb, then realizing it’s immediately time to use the sharingan. He took the fight seriously from the beginning. Goofing around with someone like Zabuza in the mist is suicide.
Another point is Zabuza saying which point will be his kill point, clearly taunting. I then can make the same argument he wasn’t trying either by your logic. (I won’t even bring up him taunting to the Genin instead of just killing them because that’s just plain old plot armor)
@@beebobber546 then why did Zabuza lose twice to Kakashi, EASY on both. The first loss was him playing around
Zabuza is one of my favorite villains, his water jutsu were always so cool to me. Water dragon jutsu is still my favorite ninjutsu after all these years.
Genma is really strong. But the sand also isn’t that powerful of a village so him being the strongest jonin there isn’t as impressive and shouldn’t get anymore respect than Asuma or Kurenai gets. Again… why didn’t kishi use genma and raido 😭
Sure Baki is no absolute powerhouse or anything but being the strongest Jonin in any village is a feat worth touching upon.
I think it's so cool how Swag collabs with lesser known channels. :) Great video TG
Swag and thunder god vid It finally happening 🔥🔥
It’s wild that you and swag collab, you’ll be getting way more exposure now.
I think the issue with how you approached Kurenai's match-up is assuming it would be a head-on battle. In her fight with Itachi the goal was to defeat him to protect the leaf village. It was a no backing down situation. So she had to try and overwhelm them with genjutsu in a head-tp-head fight.
Whereas in the bridge arc, their job was just to keep the bridge maker safe. They don't even need to fight to accomplish that mission. Using genjutsu to cover their escape and even laying a trap if they should follow is the route they would be more likely to take. Kurenai is a genjutsu specialist, so she'd fight like one, not like a ninjutsu or taijutsu specialist.
Yes very true
agreed, but that's not fun to talk about imo
@@kingofthejungle5338 why?
Never seen the channel before but popped up in my recommended. great stuff! Swag really the GOAT with collabing/lifting up other creators
Something to consider with the fight against Team Asuma, is that it depends entirely on who Haku fights first. By changing his bodys size, Chouji has a way to "dodge" lethal attacks from Haku, additionally, Shikamaru could probably figure the mirrors out quickly, perhaps before Haku even gets an attack on. He might not know Haku is teleporting but he would be able to deduce that Haku is looking for a blind spot and he could definitely strategize where Haku would attack from, perhaps even finding a restriction on how Haku moves between the mirrors. Another thought is Ino might have an interesting way to help Asuma against Zabuza, because her technique is a distance one and Asuma could keep Zabuza mostly pinned in close quarters.
TG and Swag that's dope and W vid as always
This is such a facinating and fun thought experiment. Felt like all the good Naruto discussions had been done ages ago and everything is just a rehashing of old ideas. This is definitely different (plus, the world needs more Zabuza content). About Shikamaru: Shadows do not reflect. Shadow is absence of light, you can not reflect absence. The mirrors would eliminate shadows by bouncing light in a uniform way, most likely.
but wouldn't the mirrors themselves cast a shadow as objects? Perhaps he'd find a way to use that if I'm not mistaken
@@VelvetAuraTrue, he could merge his shadow with the mirrors, and the second Haku emerges from one, he's stuck since his personal shadow is caught.
I don't think you guys gave shino and kiba enough credit. They were willing to use the sasuke retrevial arc version of choji yet didn't use the sra Kiba. Who has access to three-headed wolf fang over fang, which should just completely annihilate the ice mirrors. Even just kiba and akamaru using the double fof wildly like in the jorobo fight should be able crack/break the mirrors individually, especially if he's being protected by shinos bugs. This strategy possibly giving shino enough time to come up with a strategy considering in his fight with kankuro/sound dude he's shown to be able to counter weird jutsu Givin enough intel.
Also hinata's byakugan has insane range. She could make call outs while protecting tazuna
They completely disregarded Akamaru! But more importantly, like you said, Hinata"s Byakugan could even assist with Kurenai (why can Haku help Zabuza, but the other gennin can't help Kurenai?) Team 8 is all about tracking, and would be very hard to use the Hidden Mist Jutsu with Kiba and Akamaru's sense of Smell, and Hinata's vision. I honestly feel team 8 has a better chance than team 10 at this particular point, y'all REALLY gave Choji every benefit of the doubt, and Shikamaru really didn't come into his own until AFTER the chunin exams .
Not to mention Hinata being a taijutsu specialist, she can protect tazuna better if zabuza or haku got close, hitting those chakra points. Way better than if the other girls were in her position in my opinion
heres the thing about the inuzuka clan in general,they are outclassed in every single category by other clans you want a scout/sensory type? aburame and hyuugas do it much better you want a taijutsu user? hyuuga and akimichis are much stronger in general long range? outclassed by aburame and hyuuga as well,the inuzuka clan has a multitude of issues,one if you take out their dog they lose 50% of their power once they lose the dog they cannot gatsuga tsuga beast clone dynamic mark or two headed dog haku is extremely fast so he d take out akamaru with no hardship at all,two if you have any knowledge about the inuzuka clan (which haku will have given he is essentially a hunter nin) you would know you can use their strong sense of smell against them and pretty much paralyze them for many seconds if not a good couple of minutes,kiba would be useless in this fight just like sakura was.
Not even sure if Kiba can even beat a 0 tailed naruto
That's the bare min you need to deal with the ice mirrors
@@SoulGizmo not really. Sasukes basic fire style broke some slightly. They just regened
TG and Swag collab is a W collab
Team Kurenai is a tracker team and that was totally overlooked. Even with Hinata on the ouside of the mirrors, she would still use Byakugan to watch for patterns even through the mist. Kiba and Akumaru would definitely use dynamic marking on the mirrors so regardless of which mirror Haku used, he would get covered in pee and they would use that to track his movements. You cant rule him out just based off his fight with
Naruto. 1. He fought after the forest of death and having to survive that and Haku isnt gonna fart in his face.
Even if she thought about trying to coordinate how they should fight by looking on mirrors, she is 1) to Squamish to say it 2) to weak to do anything. BUT IF, SOMEHOW still noone in that Team is fast enough to do anything to Haku.
@@Student-jt4ht Shino has never needed to be fast to beat people and Kiba is pretty fast when he takes his food pills.
Haku is a jonin killer, stronger, faster and tougher than any of those.
Team Guy trivializes it.
I quite like the imagery of it coming down to a desperate final ina-shika combination to finish off/contain a weakened Zabuza after he's worn out Asuma while Choji put everything into taking out Haku. Going full on with the "what-if" I can see Asuma making vague reference to Choji being their ace in the hole during the training lul between the two fights before the reveal of the food pills on the bridge, probably without saying which of the three members he's referring to for the audience's sake.
Really underselling those bugs. Even if Shino didn't get any bugs on Haku before the Mirrors go up, which I'd say is actually pretty likely he would (maybe even before the fight), he can literally just cover all the mirrors in them, negating the speed advantage. Team Kurenai is also the most likely to have a team member still have the talking encounter with Haku between fights. Both Shino and Hinata have the potential for a poignant and impactful one-on-one conversation in that situation, given everything retroactively known about their characters and treating them as the protagonist team in this thought exercise. ...Sadly, Kiba is the Sakura of the group as already assessed, Shino is the anti-Sasuke that craves connection but is ill-equipped, and the closest quick comparison I could make with Hinata is she's the anti-Boruto archetype as weird as that sounds? Also, I could see it being two two-vs-one match-ups on the bridge, with Kurenai and Hinata working in tandem against Zabuza and Shino on guard duty while -aiding- doing all the work long range in Kiba vs Haku. Seems like what both the students and their Sensei would devise to handle the encounter.
Since the first fight was glossed over with Team Sand, I imagine a scenario where maybe Gaara isn't in the mood to get involved or is ordered to defend without having enough blood lust built up to disobey, or is just busy absorbing the blood of those ninja brother mooks from before Zabuza shows up or something, so that fight has him setting it out to make it interesting. Even without Gaara, they're probably at least as effective as Team 7 was there given the same level of teamwork.
Could the Sound ninja completely shatter the mirrors with sound jutsu? Might be uniquely suited to countering that in particular, even if Haku's base skill level and resilience might still overpower them all, even with charitably assuming total uncharacteristic teamwork.
Both Zabuza and Haku are war arc scaling characters that needed multiple jonins to be stopped even while trying to get themselves stopped.
Let that sink in. Without Naruto's talk no jutsu on Haku , Zabuza easily could have used his mist jutsu and just butcher all the genins.
Sasuke with a one tomoe Sharingan was able to react to Haku's speed.
Lee was able to casually beat Sasuke when he had the two tomoe sharingan.
Lee without his weights is absolutely destroying Haku.
Lee almost beat a fkn Jinchuriki (Gaara) if it werent for the BS sand clone that was written for plot purposes. Lee's drunken form while still recovering from his injuries also went toe to toe with Kimimaro. A healthy Lee without weights is 100% destroying Haku.
Haku, if we are going canonical, witht the datebook. In his mirrors, he travels at the speed of light.
Lee ever being faster than Haku was just poor writing. Sasuke being able to react to light speed is also poor writing.
@@solusanimefan reacting to the speed of light movement is less about being faster and more about predicting.
For example, if Sasuke could throw a kunai that would hit Haku while he's moving from mirror to mirror, he would throw it before Haku even leaves the first mirror. Haku would be moving too fast to react to the kunai thrown and he'd essentially run into it.
@@iRazenrak So, in short, Haku>Lee, when it comes to speed, but since Haku was just trying with Sasuke, he could anticipate just enough to get licks in, where Asa Lee despite being slower, absolutely blitzed Sasuke and gave him no chance to anticipate.
Team kurenai has a much higher chance of eating zabuza than team Asuma. All 3 genin are sensory types that is key to fighting in the mist. Secondly all 3 genin on team kurenai can be utilized. Hinata track Haku in the mirrors and protect against senbon attacks. Kiba for striking and shining for the sneaky kill with his bugs. Kurenai is a master genjutsu user. She only lost to Itachi the highest leveled living Sharigan user at the time. I don’t see how she can’t get him under using his mist to her advantage.
Hinata couldn't protect against senbon, she's to slow, so they would all probably die
woahhh you got sueykage on this vid? nice man! also thanks for covering zabuza and haku - very good characters from an era where naruto was still about ninjas and not the hidden leaf magicians flinging meteors from outer space or splitting the moon in half
Congrats TG I been watching you for a long time and I knew you’d be successful but even still, not to jock ride but getting a vid with swag is impressive. For the anime community it’s like getting a feature from Drake. Keep it up big dog ✊🏽✊🏽✊🏽
I deadass appreciate it bro especially all my Day 1’s it’s super humbling to hear and see overall
As someone who plays fighting games like that, even a single button changed will fuck you constantly.
I think Shikamaru would be smart enough to see how Zabuza counters Asuma so would come up with a plan to help. Like say having Choji go giant to break the mirrors, then taking a big breath and blowing the mist Zabuza uses to hide away, allowing Asuma to get close for a kill shot. He would be in charge of also making sure he traps Haku in his shadow possession at that moment too, maybe predicting that Haku might try and save Zabuza and catching him.
I love this for you my guy. Video came out great btw the topic was super interesting and I wouldn't have thought of it
38:00 Kiba fang over fang bounce gives him way more mobility and speed than what Sasuke had in the ice mirror
Shino's bugs eat at Chakra and the ice mirrors are Chakra. He could stop and mess with Haku's attacks and Haku while smart and tactful he's just like one of those special genins of part 1 slept on.
Nah I get what you're saying but, the Ice Mirrors are just Ice Reinforced with Chakra making them stronger. It'd be like arguing the Bugs could eat a Susanoo arm or something, we also see you can just blatantly overpower the Bugs as KCM Naruto even while Shadow Possesed blows through a group on him so even if they attach they can get kinda negated at a certain point.
@@ThunderGodTGI'm not quite sure what you're saying here. Are you comparing KCM Naruto to Haku here? Their chakra levels are completely different, and no on is arguing that a swarm of Kikaichu, even Shino's, could eat through a Jinnchuriki's chakra. However, the Kikai could eat the chakra reinforcing the ice mirrors, leaving Kiba and Akamaru to smash through the now fragile ice sheets. It would probably take some time to pull off, and Kiba and Shino might get whittled down too much before they could pull it off, but the strategy has merit.
I'm basically saying that at a certain point it is possible to just blaze through them if the object is moving too fast or has too much force like Haku's reflections
Wouldn't the bugs be able to cover a mirror and stop Haku from being able to actually move? The mirrors themselves don't have force of movement and besides being able to repair themselves through using more Chakra, I've never thought of the ice mirrors as having a repulsing effect unless Haku was jumping from said mirror, plus I'm talking about it Shino is on the outside. Wouldn't he be able to just eat away at an Ice Mirror to get Kiba out or idk use Hinata to see where Haku is tracking or find the weakest point in the ice mirrors? I don't think that Haku would lose to Kiba or Shino if he's going all out but Shino is heavily underrated in both utility and brains, with Hinata who is probably the most competent of the Kunoichi at the time (in the leaf)
A Swag co-sign. It’s lit, I seen this channel pop up on my feed but I didn’t watch a video yet. I’m subbing
I'm not sure that Naruto was physically stronger than Gated Lee. In base, he was able to uproot trees. With 4 Gates, he obliterated the floor by running. Sasuke was able to break Gaara's sand armor and Kankuro said that it's much weaker than the shield. When Lee uses the Hidden Lotus, Gaara repeatedly said that the armors coming off, butmost of it stays on. I think Kishimoto didn't really put much thought into the powerscaling. The message seemed to be that Gaara was just stronger than Lee and that he needed to move forward for narrative reasons.
Haku is directly shown to be on par with 6th gate lee and 6th gate guy in the war arc. And Naruto was shown to be Haku's equal after the nine tails leaked out. Naruto's base is also definitely below lee's base, as well as genin lee being weaker than war arc lee. It stands to reason that Naruto had to be not just stronger than gated lee there, but by a ridiculous margin. A margin so large that the question "Could lee even break the mirrors with the 4th gate?" becomes valid.
it doesn't. Most of the arguments fall flat when Kishimoto intended for the show to mainly rely on strategy instead of raw power.
@@dontmisunderstand6041 while I do like that scan. Unfortunately, it’s not consistent. Even if he was slowed down, Sasuke should never be able to keep up with an opponent who can contend with 6 gates. Which one do we use, because they’re not consistent?
@@cunningfox7838 It is somewhat consistent. The precognitive ability of the sharingan is consistently demonstrated to be extremely strong, to the point that the world's number 1 expert in countering the sharingan's strategy is to be so much faster than the sharingan user that they can't keep up even with the ability to see what's going to happen in the future. The math on that also makes sense when you dig into it. An exceptional athlete in our real world has a reaction time slightly over 0.1 seconds. If the sharingan predicts a mere 1 second into the future, the sharingan user could be 1/10th as fast as that athlete physically and their reaction speed would STILL be faster. We combine this with the fact that Haku was holding back a lot due to a lack of motivation, and also burning through a lot of stamina through the course of a rather lengthy fight where he's spamming a high cost technique... it does seem a bit reasonable. Especially at the end where we are shown Haku's top speed, and it's in an entirely different league from anything he used in the mirror cage. Haku moves so fast that he changes the weather. The air pressure from him moving at top speed cleared out the fog bank that was covering the area... meanwhile his movement didn't even disturb the mist inside the cage. This makes all the more sense when you note that in the war arc Haku is explicitly going all out.
29:04 Also, it's just completely out of character for him to bring the red pill to this mission, they did not know it was going to be a high ranked mission or they wouldn't have been set, it's just he's not gonna have it on him 24/7 for c rank missions
Finally I find more Kabuto appreciators
Kabuto was a beast
23:10 You just know he'd say some dumb line like "That's the funny thing about mirrors, they reflect everything. Even the shadows..." whilst The Rising Fighting Spirit is just blaring in the background. 😂
Haku was an elite jonin level shinobi
If he goes serious he blitzes and kills evey genin, no exception.
He blitzed raikiri kakashi for gods sake
Zabuza says he is stronger than himself and I believe him.
No genin would react to him if he went killer mode.
Vouch
@@TribeBen
even raikage is not lightspeed , they can't catch him in mid air(anime shit never happened in manga)
haku based his strategy based on team kakashi, for team guy, he possibly will no be so nice, he possibly attack their chakra point in the first time he got from 3 km away or some other plan)
with prep time, his speed, his perfect counter attack for any jutsu(stated), his iq(above kakashi , as he believed that haku is stronger than him) , and again, PREP TIME, he will one shot all the team, make a plan for their abilities, their limits , and even guy team will get ko, just take down guy before he goes into inner gates(like FREAKING Using needles to disable his chakra points, or making water trap or seprate him or something)
raikiri was lightning speed, he is light speed(and he only started to move when raikiri was at throat of zabuza)
crazy to see where you are now, more great things to come
BRO the come up is crazy and super humbling, it's so sick to see
Swagkage and ThunderGod!!!!!! 🐐X🐐
I really love that you guys included the sound trio, i really like them and i feel no one ever talks about them or includes them in things.
I think eardrum blasted haku might lose to the trio, but this relies on dosu being able to land that sound speed attack on a lightspeed opponent. Pre mirrors maybe, but post mirrors no
I think Shikamaru could actually catch Haku pretty easily. All Shikamaru has to do is have his Shadow Possession in the way of where Haku's trying to go. Haku leaves mirror, his shadow hits Shika's, captured. In the final fight against Hidan, Shikamaru shows that the person he catches with his shadow possession does not actually have to be touching their own shadow. Hidan is in mid-air when Shikamaru makes contact, but their shadows against the tree touching is enough to capture him. Therefore, Haku would be snatched out of the air the instant his shadow crosses Shika's, kind of like running into a clothesline.
And before any "but he's faster than light" arguments, it doesn't matter how fast you are. Even if you are moving faster than light, the light's already there, and you're still running into some at some point. The shadow you produce would lag behind you rather than be attached, but it would still exist. And again, since Hidan shows us you don't actually have to be in contact with your shadow to get caught, Haku would get caught.
Let's not forget that asuma had his Buddha palm thing, that thing slaps
I think you guys neglected hinata pretty hard as i think gentle fist could dismantle the barrier like it dismantled the kidomaru chakra webbing, but i admit it probably wouldn't change anything
Hinata could protect them with rotation a few times but the second she starts one tapping mirrors haku will go "oh, guess i should kill her first" and then immediately does so
Hinata can not do rotation
IMO Shikamaru is smart enough that he'd see Asuma struggling + the mirror situation and before Choji even gets involved would be shouting for the nuclear butterfly option. Choji hard wipes Haku and Shikamaru's shadows + Ino's chakra rope create enough interference for Asuma to hard wipe Zabuza because Asuma's definitely smart enough to stall for his team to back him up in such a stacked fight.
I guess Kiba might be able to dig his way out of the ice dome by digging under it, but idk how escaping helps the situation at all
Since temari is a long range fighter, She could support Baki by sending wind blades while defending the bridge builder
Digging would possibly destroy the bridge
@@otuskigaming6764 I saw a single hole should only reset progress a bit not entirely destroy the bridge.
1:02:19 Zaku cushions Dosu's fall. The sound genin would definitely work together, they just dont have the care for each other, they arent stupid tho, except for Zaku in a way
Asuma has some anime only techniques (Raigo: Thousand Hand Strike and Wind Style: Jade Hurricane) that might give him the edge against Zabuza.
TG rising up in the ranks love to see it. Quality only!
nice to see some respect on Kabuto
23:08 I feel like Shika would trail Haku Shadow but idk if he was skilled enough to get his Shadows off the ground yet.
But that could be used for Tracking the real Haku for Mind Transfer or a big Choji hit
I think Team Guy definitely wins; but Guy is certainly needing gates to stop Zabuza. I think Haku goes easy on Neji/Lee.
Team Asuma probably wins if Choji has pills, OR Shikamaru can get a good strategy. Asuma meanwhile probably stalemates Zabuza but either Choji/Shikamaru back up, or 1 sudden mind transfer from Ino puts him over the edge.
Team Kurenai... Either stomps or gets stomped. IF Kurenai can genjutsu Zabuza effectively, they likely stomp. Haku will sacrifice themself to save Zabuza; and then Zabuza has to fight a jonin (Kurenai) while also avoiding bugs from Shino, and I think Hinata's Byakugan can see through the mist I think the mist just kinda counters Sharingan but doesn't counter byakugan. Byakugan can see through solid walls; no way it can't see through mist.
Team Sand? Baki just holds off Zabuza until Gaara beats everyone.
Team Sound? I don't know how they could win unless Dosu's tech thing REALLY messes with Haku/Zabuza.
Sand might not even need Gaara. If Temari can keep her wind jutsu up longer than Haku can keep up the mirrors, arguably Haku can’t do much since all his attacks go through the air. Also he’d probably end up using the mirrors on a puppet and spend all his chakra trying to kill it. Though I’m not sure if either of them could deal with Haku’s taijutsu.
@@qwirkt I just don't think they could handle Hakus taijutsu, and I think Haku would attack them with intent to kill unlike Sasuke and Naruto whom he related to emotionally.
I'm just like based of Zabuzas statements and a couple of Hakus feats like blocking the lightning blade, and keeping up with war arc characters? I just don't think a serious Haku wouldn't be able to beat Temari and Kankuro. Kankuro scales pretty evenly with Shino, and Temari with Shikamaru... They're strong but I don't think they're surviving a serious Haku. Just neither one has a surprise power house or anything to turn the fight around. Really only stall, except Gaara.
@@daymianhogue1634 they need gaara. Kankuro is useless in that fog. Temari can clear the dog but she’s a big target and defenseless with that big ass fan and water every where.
Haku sacrifice "themself" lol
@@daymianhogue1634 yeah that would be my base case as well. Still, they might stand a chance if they strategize well. War Arc Haku had the edo tensei chakra boost which might have counted for something.
Two things:
1.) Assuming Shikimaru or Choji are able to stop Zabuza and hold him in place long enough for Ino to use Mind Body Disturbance, Zabuza could quickly be stopped. All they have to do is make him chuck his sword into the water and Zabuza is effectively disarmed.
If Kurenai has some method to make Zabuza believe that they are somewhere else in the mist, which, if we're going off of common Genjutsu techniques, they could do some sort of Danzo situation where they trick Zabuza into attacking an illusion and then they can strike him from behind.
I think that you should also have counted the demon brothers as part of mission, as they where working for Zabuza during the Bridge Mission. Though given that they jobbed so hard, I don't think it is your fault to forget about them.
God damn bro u even got swagkage making vids with u now epic
I see choji being strong enough to get Shikimaru or Ino an opening. Asume getting a draw or injuring Zabuza so bad the kids have a fighting chance against him. Asume is smart enough to know he's gonna lose and leave Shikamura a chance. Also I see Team 8 running. Like the Sensei knows she isn't that strong and she has important clan kids to keep alive. I see them turning back after the demon brothers. If they reach Zabuza then she genjustus him and they run the bridge builder to wave and then leave. Mission is reach wave not wait for bridge to be built. If he dies after their mission is done oh well. I don't think she's dumb enough to risk her kids knowing her own power level.
Such a good collab, congrats man.
Y’all should do this for the Akatsuki duos in shippuden
I loved the Pokémon black 2 music you used my boy
Appreciate it my boy
THUNDERGOD AND THE SWAG MASTER HIMSELF OH WE EATING TODAY BOYS 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Guy's team was made to counter Zabuza and Haku. They take an easy dub no questions asked.
The sand village is super underrated in terms of the power of their Shinobi. Their millitary weakness comes from a lack of manpower not skilled ninja. Baki should probably beat Zabuza.
Baki is way too speculative given that he only stomped hayate and hasn't been in any other fights
@@lapplandkun9273 It just feels ridiculous to say that the strongest active Jonin of any of the 5 villages is getting stomped by the guy that was getting whooped by a rusty part 1 Kakashi.
@@hobbyhorse5848 It's not ridiculous. Zabuza is the strongest swordsman excluding Kisame. He was Anbu. He lost to Kakashi who is the strongest Leaf Ninja. People always say Kakashi was rusty, but he was winning about to defeat him with the sharingan. Then on the bridge. Zabuza was the rusty one cause he was in a coma that Haku put him so he wasn't 100% either. Zabuza's loss is more impressive than Baki's win. Also Zabuza has a better arsenal with silent killing + mist which Baki can't see or hear him. And Zabuza has the advantage in the land of WATER. Realistically Zabuza has the edge in speed AND power AND ninjutsu.
@@hobbyhorse5848 kakashi was losing the fight until Naruto chakra distract zabuza go watch the fight again
@@hobbyhorse5848 the rusty narrative is pretty flawed. Kakashi is no joke and one of the top Jonin in the village. Kakashi even says during his fight with Zabuza “it’s been a long time since I faced someone this tough” clearly stating he’s a massive threat. Also, Zabuza would of killed Kakashi if it weren’t for Naruto’s plan
Ino could help Asuma and then he would 100%win, while zabuza is storng he is on similar level to him and Ino just has to see him to make Asuma wins.
Team kurenai could win, as they are the best suited to counter their assassination techniques.
Shino could have bugs fly around and found and attack Haku way before she can even act. He can also completely counter zabuza mist.
Shikamaru could detect them way before they appear so whole team could be ready.
So they could simply make a trap where shikamaru would attack with his drill move before haku creates mirrors and shino would harm his and take enough shakra to weaken her.
We could even have hinata block some amount of his chakra. Then that would leave Kurenai that could get zabuza in genjutsu before he can do anything.
Shino could attack both at the same time so zabuza under genjutsu would be unable to defend from bugs. Kurenai could also make bugs looks like normal mist so zabuza would just die.
I think that Kurenai team actually has the best chance against them. They have 3 detection ninja, 1 genjutsu, 1 ninja that could weaken both at the same time and seriously harm them and hinata that could block some of their chakra while they are under genjutsu.
I actualy dont see how zabuza and haku could attack them without getting detected or attack them by surprise, mirrors would not matter as haku could be trapped in genjutsu at the same time or not be let to even use it.
Great video. Love the inclusion of Kabuto with the sound genin. I feel like pts Kabuto doesn't get enough play in the versus community.
Hell yea getting swag up in here doing big things around here lol loved the vid keep it up
Outside of guys group. They would all die.
There's no shot at all that Shino wouldn't be guarding Tazuna. He's he long range striker of the group. He'd be capable of participating in both fights while also defending the bridge builder.
Honestly, it's more likely that they wouldn't even have gotten to this fight in the first place, since they could have killed Zabuza in the forest. Shino uses his insects to annihilate Zabuza's Chakra when he imprisons Kurenai, and then if Haku tries his shit Hinata can use her Byakugan to confirm Zabuza is alive. If Haku resists, he's now in a 4 v 1 and Kurenai can genjutsu him without anyone to help him escape, or it would take him long enough to escape so that Shino could surround him with insects to drain his chakra.
But let's just say that they do make it to the bridge, it's actually unlikely that any of them leave Tazuna unattended. So they might all be trapped in the mirror dome, in which case Shino covers them all with insects or gathers some spiders to web it up and nullify the jutsu anyway. Zabuza can't sneak up on them since Shino can make a cloud of insects that will notify him when Zabuza is moving, and he can also deliver poison through the insects on top of everything else.
He's just a perfect counter.
I think I'd actually give a decent shout to Shikamaru+Ino being able to cheese out Zabuza, or even Ino potentially being able to snag him while he's fighting Asuma
Agreed. Ino should at least be able to make either enemy flinch so someone else can get the kill
@@atari_black8113 eh, she's not catching Haku unless Shikamaru already has him pinned. But Zabuza is probably fair game
What about that the ultimate fanfic Shikamaru solution: Making the Leaf Village and investor in the bridge to intimidate Gato to not ef around and find out?
SWAGKAGE????
TenTen is the most underused character even in the hypotheticals. Like she could at least give Lee a Sledgehammer or something, It always felt weird that they barely made use of her weapons instead of just throwing them
The only issue I have with the smack talk about Guy beating Zabuza, is assuming Zabuza is going to head on Guy.
We saw Kakashi had to be hyper observant and in the end had to rely on his dogs to even find Zabuza. Zabuza doesn't attack head on, he appears and swiftly strikes down opponents in one move.
I love to see a video explaining about Every Village military status and if war broke out between them especially the Leaf vs Cloud village since they are the 2 country who have extremely powerful ahinobi and large military that would be very interesting topic😁.
I wasn't ready for this much Chad energy today. Let's fuckin' get it.
WE STRUTTIN
Thunder Chad and Chadkage
I would give Team Sand an A+. Temari will abolutely just blow the mist away, and then Zabuza is stuck fighting someone with tricks specifically for killing swordsmen, all while
Temari and Kankuro also attack him.
They don't even have to worry about getting in Baki's way since Kankuro can just fight at range with his puppet and Temari just wrecks Zabuza's day whenever he tries water justu or more mist.
ThunderGod - "The Sound Genin don't care about each other and will just abandon each other to die."
Also ThunderGod - *shows pics from the fight where Dosu saved Zaku from Lee's Lotus attack*
Dosu isn't stupid enough to abandon a comrade to die against a superior foe in a scenario where fleeing to save his own life isn't an option.
That said, yeah, Haku packs them up. Even if Dosu blew Haku's eardrums, it wouldn't actually stop Haku from putting up the ice mirrors. Hean just buy them time, and that time is up the moment Haku notices Zabuza is struggling.
Really, the question is, "Can Zabuza survive Kabuto long enough for Haku to come and turn it into a 2v1?"
Do swagkage and Six vs you and new horizons next
Bro just want's to see us lose
My mans just dropped another hour of straight fire
Should the collab name be thunderkage or swaggod ?
Swagkage? Damn, bro is actually kinda back.
Also in the fight including InaShikaCho and Asuma, Ino could help with Zabuza (though that leaves Tazuna open) using Mind-Transfer at the start of the fight.