The Great Coaster Credit Debate
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- Опубліковано 12 лют 2022
- Credits. We all count them...but what exactly makes a roller coaster a roller coaster? Taylor and Sarah are here to debate every weird technicality that comes with counting roller coasters!
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We were 100% on Team Sarah in this debate up until the subject of clones came up. The ride experience of each boomerangs (for example) may not be especially unique, but every piece of the whole is individual and separate from the other clones. We’d never prioritize a clone over a new or ‘fresher’ ride experience, but to say they don’t count as separate credits is to say that two identical twins should be thought of as the same person 😂
That's what I agree with because the Batman from Magic Mountain is different from the Batman at St Louis because they were different rides and not a traveling coaster.
I also disagree with Sarah on transformed coasters (stand-up to floorless). Yes, it may be a new experience, but it's still the same track. A coaster is a track, not an experience. Therefore, those who rode Mantis, in my opinion, should not count Rougarou as a separate credit.
cgc
this is also why I think that dueling coasters count as 2 credits, such as american eagle. Each side is its own expericence, even if they are just a mirror of eachother, they are still 2 different coasters. If you were to take one part of it and move it halfway across the country, they would be considered 2 credits. So why is it 1 credit when they are next to eachother? However as writing this I just thought of Space Mountain and I wouldn't consider that 2 credits, so now i need to go and think about my life.
Update, my answer to that would be that American Eagle was specifically designed as a dueling coaster, whereas space mountain wasnt. It doesnt dual, it simply has 2 different tracks for capacity reasons
@@lucasmcdonald6847 same
You ride a Woodie when it first opens but it gets rougher over the years and changes the ride experience. New credit? Nah. New paint job on Xcelerator, new credit? Nah.
It's up to the manufacturer / park for me. If they reopen something with a new name / location, it's a new credit.
Lightning Rod is still Lightning Rod, but Colossus is now Twisted Colosus.
They added CGI to Star Wars, I don't count that twice in Letterboxd, but I do count Halloween (2007) as a new movie from Halloween (1978).
Why does a horror movie channel comment on literally every roller coaster video ever?
@@BobBob-sx8yibecause he’s a coaster enthusiast
The debate of Hulk being considered a new ride is basically the Ship of Theseus paradox lol
Same profile, same que, same theme, same ride.
The Coaster of Hulk paradox
Oh snap sorry you beat me to this comment lol
This is why an Excel spreadsheet has everything you need! Since everyone has a different definition, I keep track of it myself, and with that I currently sit at 412 credits.
Exactly!
@juiceboxer100 Larson loops definitel aren't credits but I would honestly understand 1st gen drop towers. They're just coasters with elevator lifts. I haven't personally ridden one, though.
@juiceboxer100 1st gen intamins are credits
@juiceboxer100 false. I use RCDB to define what counts as a roller coaster.
@@thequackenscoasterchannel2927 RCDB dismisses gravity-powered Pretzel "wild mouse" dark rides yet counts Skywarps
I would like to argue that Journey To Atlantis (Orlando) is a coaster credit. What makes it stand out from log flumes with roller coaster-like sections (See Enchanted Forrest Flume, Bug's White Water Rapids, even Splash Mountain) is that the maneuvers pulled on Journey To Atlantis do require the vehicles to be outfitted with up stop AND Side Friction Wheels, something that Log Flumes either do not possess, or at most have primitive versions of them (see Dudley Do Right's Ripsaw Falls). So even though only a tiny portion of Journey needs them, those distinct coaster parts make me say you are riding a coaster vehicle, and therefore a roller coaster.
Splash does have that one uphill part
@@lucasmcdonald6847 Yes, but the logs are only fitted with running wheels, which is standard on most log flumes. Splash mountain's uphill after the second drop doesn't require coaster specific wheels the way a ride like journey to Atlantis does. The splash mountain drops don't curve so side friction wheels are not required, and the uphill part does not make the log perform air time, meaning there are no upstop wheels. With all this in mind, Splash Mountain is not a roller coaster, whereas Journey To Atlantis is.
cgc
I support pro-credit on this as well. I'm pretty sure the "model" of this type of ride is literally "water coaster" . So case closed plain n simple
@@ulrichwarthen yeah on the site for mack rides it calls the model for their water rides "Water Coasters" so journey is a coaster
I love Sarah’s knowing glances at the camera. 😂
Clones: separate credits
Relocations: not separate credits
Log flumes with short "coaster" sections: not a credit
Train type switch (stand-up to sit-down, etc.): not separate credits
Retracks with no layout changes: not separate credits
Retracks with new element(s) or track type switched: separate credits _only_ if combined with a name change (like Hades -> Hades 360)
what about GCI's retrack on CCI's Ghostrider? I'd consider it the same credit.
@@ShockinSammy yes, because they didn’t change the layout
@@TheCycloneHunter exactly
Thissssss
I know this is two years old but I agree with all of this, but I have to ask, what about retracks with no new elements but with a new theme and new name?
Two points here. I think if a log ride/dark ride has roller coaster elements, it is every bit as much of a coaster credit as is a kiddie coaster. Secondly, if you blindfold yourself or put on VR goggles, you aren't changing the ride at all; you're making changes to the person on the ride. I.e., it's not a new credit.
Regarding the VR goggle argument. I closed my eyes on Sandy’s Blasting Bronco and most of the forces seemed to disappear, so I was about to argue with you about it being 2 credits, but then I realized that instead of it being 2 credits (eyes open vs closed), the eyes closed ride shouldn't count at all because it's cheating, so in the end I agree with you. LOL!
y’all need a part two and talk about dueling coasters. I count Gemini as two and racer but some people don’t
i consider dueling coasters as 2 if they have different layouts. like dueling dragons. each side was a different layout, but something like rebel yell / racer 75 is the same for both sides.
Basically, racing coasters are 1 credit, dueling coasters are 2 credits.
Either side of Dragon Challenge, either side of Lightning Racer, either side of Gwazi, those are two different credits. However either side of Gemini or Racer are the same credit.
Either side of a racing coaster may be slightly different but to me they're no more different than either side of a B&M Wing Coaster.
@@chipsinsideajar1372 yeah that’s a good point and you can definitely count those as one but I say they’re basically just clones right next to each other and they are different tracks so I count them as two
@@EmberMcLain87 Technically racing coasters have different layouts / ride experiences because they are mirror images of each other, not exact copies. For example, the side of the train you sit on changes the experience differently for each track. That would mean they count as separate credits.
@@chipsinsideajar1372 but either side of Racer does something different. One makes a right turn then a left turn, and then the other makes a left turn, then a right turn.
If it’s fun and I like to ride it that’s all i care about! Coasters are for the experience not for numbers! Just my opinion
Yep. It can lead to some fun conversations like in this video, but mostly who cares lol. Have fun with it, count a bunch if you want or a little if you don't want.
Fair enough the counting for me is just an extra bonus. But i can totally understand it if you don't care about it.
Sarah becoming an enemy of the state by knocking off relocated coasters and clones off thoosies credit list.
Roller coaster: any ride that coasts with gravity, at least partiality, and rides on wheels.
some water rides have wheels
@@lansulin then they are roller coasters according to this definition
Intamin freefall towers
@@ItsSiebay yeh. Of course why not. You do mean the original ones that lift you up and drop you and then level out so your on your back right. Because the new ones don’t fit my definition I don’t think
@@lansulin then it’s a coaster. If it’s coasts on wheels then it’s a coaster
For me, when considering changing a ride, the park defines if it is a “new credit.” If a ride’s retrack or changes comes with a complete rebranding and new name, then I consider it a new credit. For example, Mantis -> Rougarou = new credit. But Hulk pre and post retrack is not a new credit bc the park deemed it still the same ride
But what if a park brands something "new" but it's just the same... maybe fresh paint and a new name. Is that a new credit?
I agree. Hades 360 is a new credit because they changed the name, and the layout of the ride
@@olleksheppert1554 like Superman ride of steel becoming bizzaro then to Superman the ride. One cred.
New credit if one of the following conditions are met:
1.) Alternative trains
2.) Over 50% retrack
3.) New or removed element
4.) Change of launch method
5.) Complete retheming
I count retheming as a credit because you can say you rode it when it was Superman The Ride, rode it as bizarro, etc.
+
It's extremely complicated but here is what I go by:
- All clones are separate credits
- Relocation that I've ridden at two parks (yet to happen) is one credit
- The ride must feel like a coaster to be counted; I don't count Gringotts because it's mostly dark ride, but I do count Mummy because it's mostly coaster
- A stand-up to floorless conversion is a new credit; I was starting my enthusiast journey when right before Mantis became Rougarou so I don't have the Mantis credit, and if I did, I would count Mantis and Rougarou are two separate credits
- A complete retrack and new trains on a wooden coaster (GhostRider) is not a new credit; the new trains must be completely different to count as a new credit (i.e. changing your riding position)
- Hulk after the retrack is a new credit because Universal tore down the original ride and built a clone to replace it
- One side of Racer at Kennywood only counts as half a credit; you must ride both sides to achieve the credit since it's one track
- Larson Loopers and Skyline rides are not coasters
It's hard but I do stick to these guidelines.
So you dont count say... Ninja and Blue Hawk at Over Georgia as seperate credits?
If you rode both sides of lightning racer at Hershey park that counts as two credits. Relocations I have mixed opinions with one side I feel like it should be and then it shouldn't because you've already ridden it at another park. And if you rode Mind Eraser at Six Flags New England and then rode it as The Riddler Revenge, it's a new credit because of the different ride experience, there's no head banging with the vests.
I agree with all of this except for Hulk. Same layout, same type of ride, same manufacturer, same location, same name, same experience.
@@DoomPlague the only difference is the on ride audio and trains
@@natep8153 no, those two count as one credit
I know this is for fun, but mostly who cares lol.
The point is to have fun and enjoy yourself. The point is a way to document and encourage you to do a bunch of different things.
Just lean towards most things count. Recount things if you want. Numbers are going to be high with enthusiasts, but it's not a competition, it's just more chances to share and compare stories and experiences.
My biggest question for enthusiasts is how do you travel to most of these theme parks? Do you travel mostly by airlines or by car and how do you budget?
For me, as a teacher in MI, I have done big long road trips, and I've flown out to a city for 2 days and flown back. During the summer is usually when 1 or 2 long road trips happen. Then Christmas break and spring break is when I'll fly somewhere, or multiple places for 3 or 4 days. I've also taken weekend trips. Leave Friday night, visit the park Saturday, come back Sunday. Budgeting is pretty easy. Add up all your expenses, hotel, flight, spending money, etc.. and save until you have enough.
I travel almost exclusively by car. Instead of going to the beach for a week, I’ll take a week long coaster roadtrip. Buying passes that get you into multiple parks, free parking, and dining plan saves a lot of money. I plan out and budget all my trips at the beginning of the year so I can earn amd set aside the needed money. I set aside some extra money as week for sporadic day trips that pop up
If you can get a job that requires you to travel, that's the best way. Just piggyback your park visits to the end of your work trip (or in the middle if you have the time). Nothing better than someone else paying for your gas or flight! Sadly, that's not the case for me anymore. Last year I took advantage of all the deals that airlines and hotels were offering to try and get people to travel again. That was great, and I scratched a ton off my bucket list. This year, I'm not sure what I'm going to do. Probably drive, and stick mostly to parks within a day's drive. However, all the new major coasters opening this year are distant, so I'm gonna have to figure something out, lol.
Road trips or airline/road trips. If you can pack a week of clothes in a light bag the bare fare airlines are fairly reasonable. Rental cars can be had for 50 bucks a day. If you plan it out you can get a ton done in a few days. I lucked out and work for airlines so that portion is free, but the car/hotels is still a bit
Thank you all for all the information on how you make theme park trips. I was born and raised in Southern California for 30 years and just recently moved to Arlington Texas last month because my job moved there. I have only gone to all the SoCal theme parks. I’ve never gone on theme park road trips before. Six Flags Over Texas will be my first park from California. Haha
My coaster count 'rules' in no particular order.
1) In general, each coaster gets counted once, regardless of how many times you ride it. (see exceptions below)
2) Each clone counts as a new credit.
3) If a ride has separate tracks (like a red side and a blue side) each side is considered a coaster credit.
a) Exception: Even though it has two sides, an S&S Freespin coaster (i.e. Joker) is only worth one credit because it has one track.
4) Twisted Colossus is an example of a Möbius coaster. While it appears to be a racing coaster, there is actually only one continuous track. Therefore it only counts as one credit.
5) Portable coasters that are moved from town to town (by carnies) don’t count.
6) If a permanent ride is removed and relocated (sold) to another amusement park and reinstalled, that does count as a separate coaster credit.
a) The difference between this and a portable coaster is these are permanently installed.
b) A person shouldn't have to do a background check on a coaster (researching its history) to determine if it qualifies as a new credit.
c) If you're visiting an amusement park for the first time, each coaster in the park qualifies as a new credit.
7) A MAJOR change to a coaster allows it to be counted as a new credit. Examples include:
a) Changing from a stand-up train to a traditional sit-down train on the same track.
b) Trains placed on the track facing backwards providing a completely different experience (SFGAm's Batman, American Eagle, Viper)
c) Another example is Mr. Freeze Reverse Blast at SF STL and SFOT. Originally trains ran forwards. Now they run backwards. (new credit)
8) Examples of changes that are NOT considered major are:
a) Changing trains from one brand to another, but not the type of car. (sit-down, standing, floorless, etc.)
b) Repairs/minor changes to a track do not qualify as a new credit.
c) Removing elements from a track do not quality as a new credit. (only MAJOR additions)
9) Water rides that have any track count as a credit.
a) Some kiddie coasters are tiny, yet still count as a credit.
b) Many water rides have drops and airtime.
c) Wheels + rack + coasting = credit
10) Changing the restraint system does not qualify as a new credit. Only if the train type changes (sit-down, stand-up, floorless, flying, etc.)
11) Wearing VR headsets on a ride does not quality as a new credit.
12) Retheming of a ride does not quality as a new credit. Regardless of whether Kings Island's 'Arrow Dynamics suspended coaster was themed for 'Top Gun' , 'Flight Deck' or 'Bat', it is still only one credit.
13) Larson Loopers are not roller coasters (no credit)
Final thoughts:
In theory, every piece of wood in 'The Beast' or 'American Eagle' has been replaced at some point over the past 40+ years. This does not mean you get a second credit because 51% of the track has been replaced since you last rode it. The only time track changes earn a new credit is when the entire track changes to a new technology such as an RMC retracking/conversion.
SF STL recently shortened the final helix on 'The Boss'. While the modifications were poorly done and the transition sucks, this does not qualify as a new credit because a major new element was not added -- it was only a minor removal.
Riding 'The Voyage' at night without the mid-course trim brakes does NOT qualify as a new coaster credit.
EOCC: Equal Opportunity of Coaster Credits: If a coaster you've ridden counts as a credit for another rider, then it should appear in your coaster count history. You can't be excluded because you rode it elsewhere, or a similar one at a different park.
Once you earn a legitimate credit, it can not be lost. If clones were not allowed, then any one B&M inverted coaster at a park other than SFGAm would count for you until you finally ride the original. Once you ride the OG Batman, you have to exclude Raptor, Banshee, Afterburn, Patriot, or any other Batman the Ride. What would qualify as a clone? Does the mirror image layout at SF STL or SFFT qualify as a new credit?
My coaster count is presently at 266. (across 19 states)
So with your Mobius argument, you would consider Kennywoods racer one credit? Then rides like Gemini, or Kings Island/Dominions racers would be 2?
6:22 it’s absolutely a different experience. The weather and the travel can change the ride, not to mention scenery and if the park changes the trains *cough* SFNE *cough*
783 credits! Taylor you're a beast lol
*784
I like the change in content! keep up the good work
Relocations are not new credits.
I rode Flashback in Six Flags Over Texas, then it came to my home park as Boomerang. That's one credit on my list.
Keep up the great work, you changed my life growing up
I just want to point out that Taylor has been on more clones than I have rollercoasters.
saaaaaaaame
Thanks for getting me so hyped for Iron Gwazi! Now I have ridden it and call it my favorite coaster in the world.
I’m shocked you didn’t mention möbius loop coasters like grand national being 1 or 2 creds
It's the same coaster, surely it's one credit
@@Zibspires he is referring to rides like Racer at Kennywood and Grand National. Not Twisted Colossus.
I count that as two. Since you stop back at the station and physically have to get off the ride and re-board on the opposite side of the station to get the second half.
@@coasterhockygamingboy9549 oh, then just a normal racing coaster would definitely be 2. But something like Twisted Colossus is 1.
P.B. 👍🍻👍
Definition of a rollercoaster: An amusement park attraction that consists of a light railroad track with many tight turns and steep slopes, on which people ride in small fast open cars.
I still count credits because I found my love of RMC’s through that. I probably wouldn’t have ridden the “scary” coasters without the motivation behind it. The appreciation I found has effected my whole life: my career path, vacations, and hobbies. So yeah, I still count them.
COMPLETELY disagree with Sarah's definition of a credit. As Taylor says, according to her definition, you could just change how things look and it becomes a new credit. I could go on the same coaster, and face forwards on one time, and backwards on another, and that counts as a credit. A credit is a coaster, NOT an experience.
Yeah you get a different experience depending on weather, time of day, and where in the train you sit too but that doesn't make for new credits lol
Yeah, I went to Silverwood years ago during Scarywood and they had the trains on Timber Terror running backwards. I don't think I would consider that a separate credit from the normal experience.
Yeah
An ongoing, worthy and great debate, sure to hype and divide thoosies forever!
I only have 34 credits, but here are the rules I came up with while watching this. 😁 1)Log flumes-No 2)Stand-up to Floorless-Yes 3)Coaster moved somewhere else-No 4)New paint-No 5)New theming of any kind-No 6)VR Glasses-Because I recently tried closing my eyes on a coaster and it was SOOO different-Maybe 7)A coaster with 2 trains-1 sit down and 1 stand up-Yes 8)Retracking for smoothness-No 9)Retracking that changes the layout (Like RMC)-Yes 10)New trains on same track-No 11)More laps on the same layout-No 12)Clones in different parks-Yes 13)Running rougher-No
Oh, and Dueling trains - Yes
If it exists as a separate ride, it's a credit. I don't know how this is complicated. Re-tracking isn't enough for me to count as a new ride because the main structure and location and existence as a coaster fundamentally hasn't changed. Relocation I wouldn't count either. Clones I would because they're technically different rides even though they might not look or feel it. Like twins, they might look the same but they're actually different individuals.
Agreed
I like the background of X2 behind Sarah. One of my favorite roller coasters! 😁
If it travels on a track at some point and relies solely on gravity in certain elements, it is a coaster. That is the definition. Therefore, log flumes can be considered to be a coaster if there are elements on a track.
Zamperla rocking tugs are shuttle coasters. The power supplied to the vehicle is just for spinning and it's the singular drive tire in the middle that pushes it side to side where it then rolls back under the force of gravity. I don't count it, but someone could if they really wanted to and I couldn't really argue against it.
I go by physical tracks. Coasters can get better or worse based on weather, maintenance, track work, etc. Attractions that have two independent tracks, like Rebel Yell or Space Mountain, count as two. I don’t count relocations as new credits unless substantial changes were made. The only exception I’d make is if the trains change in such a way where the ride is now categorized differently: Vortex and Patriot are two different credits because it went from a stand up to a floorless. Wooden coasters changing trains don’t count because while the ride experience is different, it’s still a wooden coaster.
As someone who doesn't count credits, I'm on the more conservative side. If it's the same layout in the same area, it's just one credit - re-tracking & vehicle changes aside. Apocalypse and Firebird would still be 1 credit, but Iron Wolf to Apocalypse would be a different one.
Each batman clone would be it's own credit, but if one got re-tracked, it wouldn't be a new credit.
hades & Hades 360 would be two credits because the layout fundamentally changes by adding a corkscrew, but adding a second launch onto Galeforce doesn't change the layout physically, which would still be one credit.
As for the "what counts", it needs to be connected to the rails at all times & be affected by gravity at some point. This means Gringots counts, but none of the logflumes would to me.
At the end of the day though, I'm not worried, I just ride them and don't count.
The Woodstock Express at Michigan's Adventure was originally Big Dipper in a different section and it had a different color. Would it be 1 credit or 2 credits?
Rougarou and Son of Beast without the loop would be new credits, but I think Ghost Rider wouldn't because it's still got a similar layout, and the trains are similar. They're both sit-down trains. It's not like standup to Floorless. Or invert to flyer. Or sit-down to flyer.
And a change in the level of smoothness isn't enough to count as a new credit.
Also, personally, I think 208 ReTrak and Titan track can't make new credits. They just make the same ride smoother.
Of course, if there's a significant layout change like with I-Box conversions, it would be a new credit.
scenario: Maverick breaks down on the second launch so people get evacuated mid ride. Let’s consider that someone has ridden Maverick for the first time and never again. Is that a credit?
I actually almost had that issue. The first time I rode Sky Rocket at Kennywood, I had to evac off the last block before the station. The issue was avoided as I rode later in the day and on other trips since, but it is something that should be addressed. I think my scenario would still count as I still experienced the whole ride, but in your scenario it wouldn't as plenty of the ride wasn't experienced. Maybe a half credit?
@@jameslitwin5635 yeah I would say ether half a credit or a credit with a quistionmark idk. but definetely not a full cred.
When I went to Six Flags Great America for the first time, I only had 5 hours there. So I rode the original rides like Maxx Force, Raging Bull, Viper, Goliath and so on but skipped Batman, Superman, Joker, and dark knight because I've ridden those at Great Adventure and I was pressed for time. However had I rode those, I would've counted them as new credits because they are in a different park, location, they may or may not run a little differently than their clones, and so on. Clones are clearly different credits despite being clones. However since they are clones, they're a lower priority for me to aquire the credit then the original rides are.
i keep going back and forth with they're arguments
I'm curious how you both count Intamin first-generation Freefalls. My gut says it's not a credit, because it's more like a drop tower. But it has rails, it's powered by gravity...there's an argument to be made.
About retracking rides:
Eurosat at EP Gotta completely overhauled, new theme, new trains, new track, new experience. Basically a new coaster.
Colossos at Heide Park got just a standard woodie retracking and new theming, so it’s not a new credit to me.
i think that it should be 100% roller coaster to count, so we dont have any bias like "it felt like a coaster' so no 50% roller coaster and 50% something else. Also clones do count as long as they are different track. Relocated coasters do not count as a credit as its the same coaster. Modified coasters do not count unless 100% of the coaster has been replaced. i think this would create no bias (just my opinion tho)
nEw ExPiRieNCe! I Can blindfold myself while the person next to me gives me a reflex test while I sing Depeche Mode songs. That i one hell of a new experience.
I like the idea of half credits. Water ride that is part coaster? 1/2 credit. Coaster gets new element, but is mostly the same? 1/2 credit.
How about an analogy to compare precedent? : human is to rollercoaster, as census is to credit count.
-If I move to from one state to another, I'm still the same person. The census doesn't add another human to the US population.
-If I change my hair color, the census doesn't add another human.
-If I received prosthetics, still the same
-If I have an identical twin, we're counted as two different people
-If I have a conjoined twin, we're counted as two different people
-If I'm a monkey wearing a top hat, I don't get counted on the census
Here is how I look at it. A new credit on an older coaster comes when the parks alters the ride in some way i.e. alters track, trains, adds a dancing hobogoblin that jumps out at the end of the ride etc since that can be tracked and recorded historically, but any alteration that riders do such as wear blind flows, eat sandwiches, or wearing no shirts cannot be tracked since it was unintended by the park to adjust the ride and for the most part cannot be tracked unless it was part of some odd promotion. Any cloned ride is a new credit do to changes in terrains. However, fair rides only count once since their is no permeance to their location anyway. As for Mack Water Coasters and other log flumes with track, it depends if the flume is free floating.
Great video!
There should be two types of credits
Pure credit (name, coaster, and location are the same)
Expierential credit (a special expierence based on various factors such as weather, enviorment, operation, or a one or two changes of a pure credit)
"So I could ride Velocicoaster blindfolded" ... LOL
Can you make a video on the details of your European trip? Trying to plan on for next year and would like to see help pertaining specifically to coaster trips
I don't really like to think about it too much. If it's a coaster according to rcdb, it's a coaster. If it's not a coaster, it doesn't count. Example: just because a log flume (such as Dudley Do-Right's) has a bit of coaster track, that doesn't mean it's a coaster. It's still a log flume. It's not a coaster, it just happens to coast for a bit. Same thing for Zamperla Disk'o Coasters. Sure "coaster" is in the model name, but it's just a flat ride. No need to analze if it coasts or is powered or whatever, the model was built to be a flat ride, so it's a flat ride.
As much as I want to put Carnival roller coasters as credits, I am not officially counting them, unless I put them in a separate list, because if I did put them on my official list, then that means I would have an embarrassment milestone credit.
If you don't count the individual clones as individual credits (Batman and Vekoma Boomerangs), how do you differentiate them between the various parks you've ridden them at?
I think just because a coaster is smoother after a retracking should not make it a new coaster based on “new experience.” Technically, you can get a different ride experience if you’re the first rider of the day and then riding it later on in the day when the coaster has warmed up. Someone else commented saying that if it is an individually existing coaster, even as a clone, it is a separate credit. It has a different name (except for six flags clones like Batman lol) and it independently existing from its clone(s). I think it should only count as a new credit when there is a significant change to the layout of the coaster, such as when RMC recreates old wooden coasters.
One thing I'm surprised wasn't brought up is the zip coaster model. Many people count them as credits, but RCDB doesn't list them.
I personally count them, though.
taylor: do you count lightning rod as a wood or steel coaster
me: yes
Here's my breakdown:
1. Clones, absolutely different rides. If they could theoretically run simultaneously, they're a different ride
2. If a ride gets new trains, it's the same ride.
3. If a ride gets retracked, it's the same ride.
4. The Hulk is 1 credit, but I see the argument for it being 2.
5. If a ride is relocated, it's 1 credit, same machine, different place.
So, I guess my purity test goes as follows:
1. "Is this a roller coaster?" If yes see 2.
2. "Have you ridden it before?" If no, it's a credit.
Objection: "But I rode one just like it somewhere else?"
Irrelevant: It's still a roller coaster you had never ridden before.
Objection: "I rode it before, but it was somewhere else and they themed it differently."
Overruled: It's a ride you rode before, it doesn't matter whether it moved or not, you're the same person that rode it before and you also moved. Would the roller coaster be correct to count you as a different person because you were also in a different place?
Objection: I rode it before, but they added or subtracted a significant element to or from the ride.
Sustained: It is by definition a different ride with a different layout, and therefore is a ride you had not previously ridden. It helps your argument if name or theming changed. For instance, if you counted Son of Beast twice because they they removed the loop. I think that counts.
Objection: "But Atlantis is also a log flume and Gringotts is a dark ride."
Overruled: It is certainly possible to be both a roller coaster and a dark ride or a flume. It's not a matter of what category it fits better. The question, "Is it a roller coaster?" And since it's rolling and coasting down the track, Atlantis is just as much a roller coaster as a wacky worm, it's just also a log flume/boat ride. Same logic goes for Gringott's.
I've got a pretty short list of rules for this one:
-A credit is any ride that both is rolling along a track for a majority of its physical length and is driven solely by gravity for a majority of its ride time. The ride also must possess at least one valley point, where a ride vehicle placed there would be unable to return to the station.
-A ride counts as a new credit if a majority of the physical track is replaced as a part of one refurbishment project. It does not count as a new credit if only a couple elements are changed or trains are swapped even if riding position changes.
-Anything that is a separate physical ride counts as a separate credit. Clones are separate credits, as is each track of a racing coaster. Relocations are not a new credit since it is the same physical ride in a new location.
I've ridden hulk with the old track, and when I rode a few months ago, it's not a new credit for me because it's in the same layout with same elements. As for firebird, i've ridden apocalypse before it got converted, but i didn't count it as a new credit, it may be a different ride experience but still the same layout. And steel vengeance, it's a new cred for me because it is in the same location as meanstreak but inversions and airtime have been added despite me riding mean streak 6 years prior.
But by your definitions, Olympia Looping *is* a different credit in Munich vs. London; they run it with trains that are longer in Oktoberfest, which makes the back row more intense.
I agree with Taylor on the visuals one - a rollercoaster in a new environment is a new credit. Big example would be any coaster that was built around it's terrain, if you move it to a new location the experience would be very different. Saying that a blindfold is the same thing is very petty.
Man this video his hilarious. Coaster credits have so many different definitions depending on who you talk to. And what about racing coasters like red side/blue Racer 75 and Racer?
Regarding 2 coasters that are the same at different parks I count them each because while they might be the same they are physically 2 different rides. Going on that red side/blue side are different coasters as well which is how I count it.
The two racers you mention are two completely different structures and rides, with turns that go opposite directions. Each side is a different coaster, thus each a separate credit to me. OTOH Kennywood Racer is one, single track, as is Grand National. I count these as one credit.
@@crooked-halo makes sense. I count red side/blue side as 2 different ones also I just wanted to see other's thoughts
for me if its a logflume with coaster segments its a water coaster. if its a darkride with coaster elements its a dark coaster
Thanks for settling the debate I had with Son of Beast. I considered it 2 credits cause of the loop and the different trains.
Now would you consider The Beast a new credit in 2022 with the retracking and the change on the first drop?
I’ve got a question for you would you count space mountain at Disney world in Florida as one credit or two because they have two tracks but they are only mirrored so what’s your take on this one please let me know
14:22 idk if we're gonna be riding coasters at 50, but ok
Here’s the real question we should ask ourselves, is Seuss Trolley Train Ride a credit. If so, it’s a möbius loop, which is another debate.
That used to be me waiting for the kiddie rides and wild Mouse in my quest to get to 100. Now that I'm over 100, I likely wont do that again. Plus I usually felt so awkward around all the adults while trying to get the kiddie creds.
Make this a series
So random question. Does SheiKra count as two credits? The first one the trains had the floor and now it is a floor less coaster? Would that be two credits or one since it still the same ride.
So... Nemesis retrack at Alton Towers. New cred or not?
The layout is the exact same, but the track will be new, will have additional supports and potentially new trains. So, could feel like a new experience...
I enjoy riding all sorts of different coasters because I like different experiences and like comparing them. I'll ride clones and kiddie coasters more because I want to experience them and rank them rather than add them to a credit count (though that's nice, too). That's why I can't bring myself to lap 1 or 2 coasters all day, because I want the different experiences (unless it's a kiddie coaster I've already ridden or a BAD coaster). Funny video though! My opinions are below if anyone is interested.
I'm obliged to put my opinion here because I'm a member of society and feel that other people should be able to read a random person on the internet's thoughts:
Lightning Rod - Absolutely not. The Topper Track is branded as wood but feels a lot more like steel, and the fact that it can be interchanged with I-Box the way it was (and that it just feels like a retrack) shouldn't make it a new credit imo. If a traditional woodie gets a steel retrack, yes, as it's completely different. Tremors wasn't fully retracked so I wouldn't count it.
Complete retracks/refurbs - No. When they tore down Hulk and rebuilt it again, they still treat it as the same coaster. They recreated the same layout in the same place and market it as the same ride, so it's the same to me. Many people have no idea they tore down the whole thing to rebuild it. Same with Mindbender. It may have new trains and an updated name, but it's still the same ride, ACE landmark and all.
Clones - Absolutely yes!
Relocations - No, even if they change its name, they didn't change the coaster. Deja Vu/Goliath is an extreme example. I'd probably put 2 separate entries on my ranking list for those, but only count it as one credit on my credit list.
Ninja/Blue Hawk - Same logic applies to this as I applied to relocations.
Completely different train type and name - Yes. If the park makes it clear that they're marketing Rougarou as separate from Mantis, with totally different types of trains (versus Blue Hawk, which only received new sitdown trains; or Scream Machine, which only runs them backwards occasionally)
Twin coasters - No. If the coaster is marketed as one ride, and the sides are near identical, then no. I listed both sides of Space Mountain separately on my ranking list because the Omega side is a bit rough compared to the smooth Alpha side, but they're still one in my coaster credits. Coaster like Gemini and Racer fall into this category.
Racing coasters - Yes. If the tracks have different layouts, then yes, regardless of what the park says. Both sides of Dueling Dragons could easily function as separate (non-clones) rides, for example. Coasters like Twisted Colossus and West Coast Racers are (obviously) one credit as the tracks are connected so you ride both sides in one ride without getting off.
A section added/taken away from a coaster - No. Maybe separate spots on my ranking list, but it's still mostly the same ride. Includes Hades 360, Son of Beast, and Mystery Mine. If enough was changed so that it's a very noticeable difference, then maybe? I don't know of any rides like this.
"Coasters" - Yes. If they fall into a coaster by definition, I count them. This includes Journey to Atlantis, Escape from Gringotts, Big Timber Log Ride, alpine coasters, Blazing Fury, and Harley Quinn Crazy Coaster.
Powered coasters - No. Even if they're on RCDB, they don't "coast" which is key. These include powered kiddie coasters and Larson Loops.
That one coaster with a standup and a sitdown train - I didn't ride it, and it's gone now, don't complicate things!
As for element changes, I'm not going to consider TT2 a new credit for the same reason I didn't condider loopless Son of Beast a new credit. In both cases, Cedar Point and Kings Island made the **minimum modifications necessary** to keep each coaster operational after a serious ride failure. New, lighter trains were involved in both modifications. If TT2 were getting new airtime hills (non-essential elements), then I could understand that argument. But since Zamperla has never worked on a coaster of this magnitude, they absolutely need 3 launches to get the train over the top hat 99.9999% of the time. This means the 400+ foot spike is required to safely accommodate a 101 mph backwards launch.
I think the big qualifier should be what the park’s intention is with a “refresh”. If it’s to help with maintenance/efficiency/age (ie Lightning Rod, any woodie retrack, Hulk) I don’t think it counts as a new credit. If they’re advertising the refresh as a new riding experience, and it has elements that do so, then it’s a new credit
I’m a follower of the “RCDB Bible” philosophy because it makes credit counting very easy.
This video is definitely needed. Credit fanatics go crazy over what's a credit and not.
In my opinion, anything with some coarser elements counts. Changes to a coaster, whether train or retracking or adding in a couple new elements, does not count as a new credit (unless it’s completely a different layout like an RMC - so if it was just a steel retrack of a wooden coaster it wouldn’t be new). I think relocations also don’t add up to a new credit, while clones and racing/dueling coasters are different coasters. Basically, my scale is based on the physical track/layout, not the ride experience because I think this is more objective (all of what I’m saying is pretty much the rcdb method). But it’s very interesting to hear what others think
To throw a wrench into the mix, I would add Greased Lightning at Kentucky Kingdom, a Schwarzkopf shuttle loop Frankensteined together from the parts of two others.
Also, how about Mobius loop coasters? If you only ride one side of the ride (Kennywood's Racer, Grand National, etc.), does it count as a half credit? Does the same go for a ride that breaks down and you have to evacuate from a midcourse?
If the retracking adds something drastic to the ride, then it’s a new credit. Galeforce can be 2 credits (old GF new GF). If there is a train change, it needs to be a major change. Mantis to Rou is standup to sit down. Ghostrider is PTC to millennium flyers same premise
I’m a fan of losing the credit when a coaster changes. Standup to sit down? Lose the credit til you reride. New track? Lose credit til you reride. Have a separate count for defunct.
I count log flu es as credits. they have a lift hill, they have lap bars and they give you that coaster stomach effect.
If it's the same track but a new train, It's not a new credit
This vid is fire
Add an extra foot of track to the ride = New credit. Hey, it is a completely different ride experience because those 12 inches are more thrilling than the original!
The way I count credits is I count them by separate operations & YOUR first ride ever on a coaster. Batman The Ride SFGAm & Batman The Ride SFOG: separate credits. I have a system by this way. YOUR first ride ever on a roller coaster is YOUR original full credit. Therefore making the count go up. There is your first ride on a coaster Credit, then plus your Side Credit if something happens to the coaster. There's no such thing as "half credit. You either ridden or didn't ridden a coaster.
American Eagle at SFGAm, racing coaster. If you ride at least one side: one full credit. If you ride the other side, a "side credit" (other side credit). Lightning Rod at Dollywood when it opened: Full Credit (your original credit). Lightning Rod when it received it's retrack: Side credit (the hybrid retrack credit). And if it receives a full steel ibox retrack
I agree with Sarah, counting credits gets confusing and also pointless. Ex. When it comes to boomerangs, feels like a waste to ride the same coaster that is at every park.
Love this debate video though. Great points on both parts
I'm probably gonna be wrong but I count a changed as in like remodeled. If the layout has changed significantly then it should be counted as a new credit. Like in the video, The son of beast with and without the loop have a major part of the layout was taken out leading to major change of the ride experience.
Hehe i just use CC and for my personale count i just count the pure setting for my own count. And a different train on the same track is just 1 credit for me. A rebuild of an old coaster must be significantly different in lay out to count as a new credit for me. Having had these discussion to often they are fun but the defintions are so fluid i just decided to stick to the CC defenitions.
Came for a coaster credit debit, ended up with the Ship of Theseus paradox XD
Question to UK enthusiasts building on Taylor's point about Hulk.
Nemesis is about to get retracked. Will you be counting it as a new credit or not?
And Superman escape from Krypton is a drop tower with a blast section like an S&S drop tower, just horizontal.
I like that you describe a ride to determine if credit applies. Does the vehicle have wheels that allow it to roll? Is the ride wooden or steel or hybrid? How long is the ride and does it have inversions? Where is the ride located?
If the description changes, then I say it should be a separate credit.
Also a racing coaster is two credits-one for each track.
Do you count mountain coasters such as the Branson Coaster? You have a brake to slow the speed.
boomerangs should be counted as different credits because they are at different parks lol
If it looks like a rollercoaster, and it rides like a rollercoaster, then it's a rollercoaster. No log flumes with a bit of coaster track, no dark rides, no old style drop towers. A coaster is a coaster, and if you can't tell it is straight away, then it probably isn't one.
If a little circle kiddie coaster counts then so does a Larson looper, based on the principle that it is on a track
The one big topic you missed was racing coasters, like each side of Gemini - personally I think they are pretty clearly 2 credits (although i don't rank them separately), but I know some people would debate that. The thing I do that has freed my mind immensely is I have a "strict" list and a "vague" list, which for me would pick up things like relocations, coasters that feel more like flat rides, etc. So I have my credit count of 239 without any caveats, and 243 if people want to count "liberally", etc. - I just don't assign a serial number to those "vague" credits so my milestones aren't impacted. A nerdy, way too serious system that works for me anyway!
In philosophy, we call the 'vague' ones edge cases or hard cases :)
I have 49 credits (aiming for Pantheon to be #50) and I’ve yet to ride one that’s considered controversial. I’d consider JTA at SeaWorld Orlando to be more boat ride than coaster, and the two Skyline Skywarps better fit the definition of flat ride.
Nah, water coasters are coasters. It has legit coaster track and coaster parts to the ride.
Read David Hume’s essay “On Identity.” You’ll realize it’s impossible to ride the coaster twice and every lap is a new credit, because the coaster is always different and the distinction between a small change and a large change is really no distinction at all. But also, you are constantly changing, so you don’t really exist anyways. Thus everyone’s coaster count is 0.