Worth noting that Eternal Wanderer’s +1 can also exile one of your opponent’s creatures or artifacts until THEIR next end step. That’s some nice modality.
A lot have been overly-critical of Sword of Forge and Frontier because it’s one of the “swords”, but I think it’s fantastic in EDH. It does the two key things that commander players want to do and allows you to filter through the top two cards of your deck in the mid-game so you can play one of the lands you exiled, while setting you up to cast something more expensive in your second main phase. I love it and hope to get a copy when the price goes down.
I agree. Aside from Hearth and Home, any new sword (and some of the old ones) are thought as underwhelming because they can't measure up to Feast and Famine
That take on Mirran Safehouse seems crazy to me. 3 Mana to possibly copy a fetchland? That's not amazing even if it gives land Ramp options to mono blue and black.
That's the floor. Safehouse is kinda nutty flexible for utility on a colorless permanent. I think it'll see more play in Commander but there may be ways to make it work in 60 card. I see no reason not to run this in green-based landfall decks as yet another fetch/ramp to trigger more landfall effects. If you're running triomes and fetches you have more fetch targets to take advantage. I don't think it'll be competitive but it might end up being a weird backup tron piece for when one of your Urza's lands get nuked. Can easily find a home in combo decks. Mill can make use of it. Reanimator strategies can also make use of this with all the artifact recursion these days. In Muldrotha it serves as a permanent type not commonly cast from the graveyard in those decks that also lets you double up on the sac lands you'd be playing anyway for value. Best card all year? Idk. Very interesting card with lots of potential? Yes.
1:02:50 Seth, have you heard of our lord and saviour, Flux Channeler? It's the second effect of Ichormoon Gauntlet, on a creature, on roids: it's full on Proliferate on noncreature spells. Three mana, same as the Gauntlet. If you're only using the second line of text on Ichormoon, then odds are Flux Channeler has to already be in the deck :p
Seth already mentioned it, but if you are excited for Mirran Safehouse I recommend trying Manascape Refractor instead. It is much more reliably a 3 mana rock (there will always be lands in play to copy), and doing something crazy with it is easier to setup. I play it in my Orzhov deck to act as an additional Cabal Coffers, but it can also copy opponent's land abilities, etc. Unless you are self milling a bunch, Safehouse is not likely to end up with many good land abilities to copy. Copying a Fetchland is a terrible use of both of these cards, not sure why they kept talking about that aspect of the card.
Vat of Rebirth feels like it belongs in Ziatora decks. Ziatora’s ability alone fuels all four oil counters and the mana for the ability to bring back whatever you sacrifice!
Note about Mirran Safehouse: The floor is not "3-mana fetch land"; the floor is "3-mana do-nothing artifact." There will definitely be games where no one plays an early fetch land, and other games where you topdeck this after everyone's graveyards have been exiled. This is definitely worth noting.. it's a sweet card but riskier than advertised in this video. It is not guaranteed in any way unless you yourself are putting lands in the graveyard as part of your strategy.
@@surfinggarchomp2820 It blocks + stops etb exile effects, so it does protect your pws pretty well. It also slows down all your opps while you are able to accelerate with the pws.
One thing on the Elesh topic: I don't think it's busted or broken either but it has the unfortunate side effect that Hinata had: You have a very powerful build-around effect that got kind of sabotaged by the negative effect for your opponents. Hinata is an X spell tribal deck, but everyone hates your commander because it increases their costs, not just because Hinata is powerful. Similarly, a Panharmonicon on a stick is super good and could be a build-around, but everyone will hate it just because every deck has incidental ETBs and it shuts those off. So I really don't like the design of the card, completely ignoring how powerful or not powerful it is. In commander specifically it won't lead to much fun playing as or against Elesh I feel like.
@@TransformersBoss I mean, white is where all the good blink stuff is. Yarok is a doubler, but the color doesn’t really have good ways of building around it
Ehh I don’t think the cost increasing part is what makes Hinata threatening to people or why they don’t like to play against her. I do agree though that I’m not a fan of designs where doing your fun thing also means shutting down your opponent’s fun things.
I think we can agree that the card deserves recognition as annoying. And some people actually like that. We should all be building decks we would love to lose against. And be playing against those kind of decks too. I hope the community will prove to be aware about these chemistries among players.
I'm excited for Clever Concealment in my Rhys the Redeemed deck. I think it is as good if not better than Teferi's Protection in that specific deck since I can effectively cast it for free by tapping elf tokens.
They keep calling Wanderer a watered down Wrath, but her board wipe effect is _significantly_ better than Wrath imo. Even if she didn't stick around afterward as a planeswalker, it'd be a pretty good sorcery. I also don't think it's comparable to Elesh as, nine times out of ten, it doesn't miss anything you aren't fine with missing. Elesh also doesn't hit the biggest wrath targets, token spam and low cmc creature spam, while Wanderer excels against them.
People are also sleeping on the +1. It doesn't say a creature you control and the creature returns at the creature's owner's end step. That means I can blink your Ishin every turn, and you'll never get to double your attack triggers. Blink a Muldrotha and they won't get to use their graveyard. Blink Prosper and his Exile effect will never trigger, etc.
Wanderer is a an amazing card for Negan too, you can play her on curve right after Negan then if theres at least 9 other creatures across your opponents you get the mana right back from spending on Wanderer. Her +1 also flickers Negan himself or your Portal to Phyrexia
Shout out to the universe Within/ street fighter remakes. Some of these new made up characters look so cool. Ironic too that Zangief/Maarika looks an awful lot like an upcoming fighting character in the upcoming sf6 game, Marisa whose also a gladiator fighter
It's heresy, but I think I like the new characters a lot better than the SF versions. I'm a huge sucker for saw-toothed katanas (Zethi) and spellblade characters (Aisha)!
I don't really like planeswalkers, especially in commander, but The Eternal Wanderer is going straight into my Yorion deck. It's particularly good in Yorion because you can play Yorion, flicker out your board, then wipe with Wanderer choosing your Yorion, and essentially get a one-sided wipe. Also yeah I absolutely love Vat of Rebirth
I actually agree with Crim about Body and Mind, WITH the caveat you use in a deck designed to hose the graveyard. Body and Mind with a RIP on the battlefield? C'est Magnifique!
What's great about Clever Concealment, is that you choose what permanents of yours will phase out unlike Teferi's Protection which gets everything no matter what. So you could keep around your "stax/draw" (mystic remora, rhystic study, smothering tithe) pieces while protecting other key cards or protect only the things that would be affected by a particular type of board wipe like artifacts , creatures or enchantments. It's insanely flexible.
I feel like the strongest argument against Forge & Frontier is that people don't play Exploration/Oracle of Mul Daya/etc as staple ramp - "play one more land this turn" effects by themselves are not reliable, and the compounding caveats of combat damage and drawing/exiling into extra lands are too much for an average deck.
Most decks could save themselves the trouble by using Coffin Queen. Yeah, they're slightly different use cases, but I'd prefer the one that's easier to set up. Also, you get to hit any graveyard.
I thought Vat of Rebirth looked absolutely cracked when it was spoiled. I think most decks can get it to reanimate a creature per turn in the late game. It looks nuts.
You could just play more removal in your EDH decks. Elish Norn has no evasion. :) EDH players are so greedy these days. You want to be able to use insane lands, but hate land removal. You want to be able to play powerful ETB effects, but hate when someone tries to stop it. You want no one to stop your own plans unless it's the specific way you want that's very easy for your deck, which lacks proper removal, to recover from.
Elesh Norn has the same problem as Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund. If someone plays a clone effect - you are screwed. Make sure to include sacrifice Outlets to prevent this from happening
I'm surprised nobody brought up Flux Channeler when discussing Ichormoon outside superfriends decks. It's a 3 mana card that says "when you cast a noncreature spell, proliferate" which is just better than Gauntlet's second effect by a mile if you don't care about planeswalkers. Also that card is an uncommon soooo
The mycosyth gardens is the only card from the set i'm really interested in for an existing deck, i'll probably get a norn and the dominus cycle as well.
Mirran Safehouse is terramorphic expanse as a floor at a table of all precons. It does seem like a good windgrace/crucible/titania card. It just goes away if you use it to fetch, and your nykthos has to be in the GY to get the ability on the safehouse. im not sure I agree with it outside of the specific archetype.
I know y'all have already discussed Elesh before, but one thing that came up in this episode that was new: I don't think we should use the argument that Elesh Norn is "fine" because it's expensive, so most people won't play it due to its price. It's price is indicative of its gamewarping power, just like Dockside. Casual players would gladly run both of those cards if they were $10, and Commander nights at my LGS would be miserable.
Staff of completion can be amazing in the good deck. But I agree you have to have a bit of synergy. It's great in my Karumonix deck. 5 mana+6 life to proliferate twice is amazing to finish someone with poison counters. And sometimes it draw a card or makes a mana.
Note about Zenith Chronicler: It triggers off of Commanders, so unless your playgroup has a few monocolored commanders, it should trigger pretty reliably. It's not an autoinclude for most decks, but I think it should be considered in monocolored decks, especially if your deck wants draw, artifacts, and/or aggressive creatures.
Staff of completion is a phyrexian arena with upside in mono white, especially if you have life gain. Thing will be a staple in mono white at least, I'm sure of it.
I'm also really high on Mirran Safehouse. I think it's fine in White since you already use Lotus Field to set up your ramp, you've got your Strip Mine, your Fetchland. Worst case you've got a 3 mana rock. Also it's insane to me the lengths the crew will go to justify their insane deckbuilding strategy of "basic lands are unplayable".
it is consistently one of the funniest things that 3 of them are just like "basics are trash" and then there's Tomer, just dying in the corner. someone just needs to start running more price of progress and just go full aggro mode lol
@@nikhilchhagan7371 I play like, 6, but I think something along the lines of 4 is still reasonable. 2 is definitely not enough, but if you have the money to play cooler cards, then why not? They also play like, way more lands in general then I think is necessary
The new sword is the same cost as an Urban Evolution, except you have to connect. Urban Evolution is good, but not better than untapping all your lands. You also don't get to keep the cards that the sword exiles, it's impulse draw. So it's good, especially as a repeatable effect, but it's not nearly as good as feast and famine.
Richard is awful confident about mirran safehouse, outside a lands deck I'm not so sure you can call it a nature's law as you need to play an awful lot of fetches/self mill to turn it on by turn 3 reliably
I really like the Wanderer, especially because the flicker ability can be used offensively and defensively thanks to the "that player's next end step" clause. You can bounce your Spirit Companion and draw a card sure, or you can deny your opponent a crucial creature/artifact for an entire turn cycle. Without an answer you can permanently lock an opponent out of using one of their creatures or artifacts outside of your upkeep if wrathing or making bodies isn't what you need at the moment. The 2/2 double striker can even be good in various decks or just as value.
Yep, everyone's sleeping on the ability to shut out opponents. Muldrotha giving you a problem? That's OK, blink it, and that player no longer has access to their graveyard. Shut down Prosper's exile effect or Atraxa's proliferate. Ishin stops doubling attack triggers. Miirym won't double up on dragons. Lathril won't get to make a bunch of elves.
Vat of Rebirth is a sleeper for gy decks. I already am imagining returning creatures with etbs. Like eternal witness to get any card you want. Then sacrifice him to ashnods to get 2 colorless; refunding most the cost and getting another oil counter.
Goldwardens' Gambit is nice because it's a sneaky go wide option for voltron decks. I don't know if it's gonna be an awesome finisher, but in the right deck is gonna get people when they don't expect it
Something about Clever Concealment... since it can be 0 mana it's the easiest way to board wipe, hold priority then dodge your own board wipe. The board wipe can even be something like an ondu inversion or hour of revelation since it protects all nonland permanents.
Eternal Wanderer’s +1 can also be defensive. It’s not forever, but it buys you a turn without one of your opponents best artifacts or creatures on the battlefield if you don’t have the removal for it.
Staff of Compleation is great in stuff like mono white lifegain and something like elves with cards like Essence Warden to constantly recoup the life loss. Having said that people still pay 8 life multiple times with Sylvan Library to draw 2 extra cards a lot of the time so people might be greedier than they're letting on.
I too love zenith chronicler. I have been trying to find my perfect colorless deck. I didn’t wanna do Eldrazi stuff. Then the last few sets we’ve gotten a colorless growing artifact legend with evasion, a new sword of with card advantage, and then this little phyrexian dude! My playgroup loves multicolored decks. I’m genuinely the only person that consistently brings a mono colored deck or two. This is pretty dang cool! He’s just a cute lil guy!
So I think there is an argument to play Mirran Safehouse in Green too. I love the Nature's Lore effects so much that I play Into the North, Wood Elves, and Yavimaya Dryad in all of the decks that want Nature's Lore (multicolored decks specifically). I am willing to pay 3 mana for this effect, even if I cannot use the Wood Elves body very well. This is why I have considered even Spoils of Victory in decks. Spoils of Victory is 3 mana Farseek, but you can get Forests with Spoils of Victory. So I would heavily consider Mirran Safehouse even in Green decks.
I feel like the crew, outside of Richard, looks at Elesh norm as two seperate effects, panharmonicon and torpor orb which are individually fine. They look at Dranith magistrate and say that card is ok so why elesh is worse. Because Elesh does both at once, always. It is as if dranith magistrate let you cast cards from graveyard and exile on top of his abil. The card is mega oppressive incidentally to its incredible value generation. Idk, I think Sheldon has a point, I really cba seeing this card everytime there is a deck with white in it.
I mean those are staples and safehouse is just as good most of the time and can literally win you the game in it's good cases. It's miles above the others, the card is really kinda cracked.
I don't understand how the floor on mirran safe house is 3 mana rock or 3 mana fetch land. Isn't the actual floor 3 mana and do literally nothing because there are no lands in graveyards or a rest in peace is in play or something? I get that's not super likely, especially in this playgroup, but why the dishonesty?
I pulled a Staff of Compleation and immediately considered slotting it into my Sheoldred deck, so you're basically paying 2 life per draw. Not too bad at that point.
I have nothing to back this up, but from what I've seen of the greyscale arts of the non-compleat planeswalkers, it looks like the art is a "this is what this character would look like if they were compleated" take.
What is richard talking about mirran safehouse... that thing will have next to no impact outside of lands decks edit: maybe he wants to sell a few of these...
Going to add staff to my Kaalia deck that run Villis. Every life loss adds to additional card draw. So pay 4 life = draw 5 with staff. Also in Atrax Superfriends with the new proliferate doubler. So pay 3 proliferate twice is strong.
Everybody sleeps on the utility of The Eternal Wanderer's +1. They only think about blinking their own creatures, but it says "at the beginning of that player's end step". So you can blink an opponent's creature that cares about combat or has some other sorcery speed benefit and nullify it completely. Just a small list of commanders that could be nullified by this +1: Ishin, Slicer, Atraxa, Lathril, Prosper (mostly), Muldrotha, Miirym (unless they can cast dragons at instant speed), Kaalia, etc.
Wanderer's +1 is way more than just a blink. It removes a creature/artifact during its controllers turn. That's so much more utility than just "oh 1 extra etb"
I played my elf commander deck and I had a heroic intervention on hand... and got wiped three times because I never had the mana open... needless to say I love clever concealment. plus I have one teferis protection but could use it in like 5-6 decks.
Tomer --> Heartwood Storyteller's draw is a may so they can choose not to in order to prevent Notion Thief stealing draws. I like the card, don't get me wrong but I won't run it beside Notion Thief because they turn each other off.
I love the Goldfish gang and their dynamic but the discussion around Elesh Norn frustrated me to no end. Richard whining about being forced to interact because of 7-mana torpor orb that 90% of the time you'll see coming from the command zone? Come on, man. And Seth's response of it being restrictively expensive being an upside felt just kind of tone deaf. Real talk, I don't know if I'm now "too casual" for real EDH talk or if the CC crew have slowly pushed themselves out of the edh crowd that they used to represent. Most pods I play with don't have any fetches in them. Richard's suggestion of playing 5 in mono blue to increase the likelihood that your three mana artifact works as a ramp spell just seems wild to me
The cod father on another episode! How lucky are we?
He’s going to be here all season, no?
I think they said he's back to being a regular on the podcast now
Haha wait who are we talking about?
Worth noting that Eternal Wanderer’s +1 can also exile one of your opponent’s creatures or artifacts until THEIR next end step. That’s some nice modality.
Richard - "Unlike Tomer, I thought about this" @27:47
Unintentionally had me in stitches.
I want a 5-person podcast so bad. I'd love to hear how everyone interacts with eachother at the same time lol
A lot have been overly-critical of Sword of Forge and Frontier because it’s one of the “swords”, but I think it’s fantastic in EDH. It does the two key things that commander players want to do and allows you to filter through the top two cards of your deck in the mid-game so you can play one of the lands you exiled, while setting you up to cast something more expensive in your second main phase. I love it and hope to get a copy when the price goes down.
I agree. Aside from Hearth and Home, any new sword (and some of the old ones) are thought as underwhelming because they can't measure up to Feast and Famine
The floor of Mirran Safehouse is not a fetchland.
The floor is that there are no lands in any graveyards.
The floor is a worse Darksteel Relic
That take on Mirran Safehouse seems crazy to me. 3 Mana to possibly copy a fetchland? That's not amazing even if it gives land Ramp options to mono blue and black.
That's the floor. Safehouse is kinda nutty flexible for utility on a colorless permanent. I think it'll see more play in Commander but there may be ways to make it work in 60 card. I see no reason not to run this in green-based landfall decks as yet another fetch/ramp to trigger more landfall effects. If you're running triomes and fetches you have more fetch targets to take advantage. I don't think it'll be competitive but it might end up being a weird backup tron piece for when one of your Urza's lands get nuked. Can easily find a home in combo decks. Mill can make use of it. Reanimator strategies can also make use of this with all the artifact recursion these days. In Muldrotha it serves as a permanent type not commonly cast from the graveyard in those decks that also lets you double up on the sac lands you'd be playing anyway for value.
Best card all year? Idk. Very interesting card with lots of potential? Yes.
The floor is that it does nothing since there can always be no lands in all graveyards
I love Richard but I must acknowledge he has some of the most demented takes in these videos.
I think when you don't play paper and it's such social game, you are going to build up some very strange takes.
That claim of putting mirran safehouse in monocolored decks so you can get fetchlands really was something. Without mill that card is complete trash
Thank god I’m not the only one. I never agree with his takes.
I think he just enjoys being a contrarian
Relax it's just a podcast. It's not like they're the RC or anything. Plus hot takes are more entertaining than "this card is good cuz it's good"
We need a Commander Clash equipment episode to settle the sword debate
1:02:50 Seth, have you heard of our lord and saviour, Flux Channeler? It's the second effect of Ichormoon Gauntlet, on a creature, on roids: it's full on Proliferate on noncreature spells. Three mana, same as the Gauntlet. If you're only using the second line of text on Ichormoon, then odds are Flux Channeler has to already be in the deck :p
Seth already mentioned it, but if you are excited for Mirran Safehouse I recommend trying Manascape Refractor instead. It is much more reliably a 3 mana rock (there will always be lands in play to copy), and doing something crazy with it is easier to setup. I play it in my Orzhov deck to act as an additional Cabal Coffers, but it can also copy opponent's land abilities, etc. Unless you are self milling a bunch, Safehouse is not likely to end up with many good land abilities to copy. Copying a Fetchland is a terrible use of both of these cards, not sure why they kept talking about that aspect of the card.
Vat of Rebirth feels like it belongs in Ziatora decks. Ziatora’s ability alone fuels all four oil counters and the mana for the ability to bring back whatever you sacrifice!
As a ziatora main, i 100% agree. It feels really good
Note about Mirran Safehouse: The floor is not "3-mana fetch land"; the floor is "3-mana do-nothing artifact." There will definitely be games where no one plays an early fetch land, and other games where you topdeck this after everyone's graveyards have been exiled. This is definitely worth noting.. it's a sweet card but riskier than advertised in this video. It is not guaranteed in any way unless you yourself are putting lands in the graveyard as part of your strategy.
I think Elesh Norn will be heavily played because it's a popular character and the face of a set.
if it was not horrible expensive I say the same. Im in the camp it should be in the 99 of any white deck tho
@@alkhemia23 Why would I play it in superfriends?
@@surfinggarchomp2820 It blocks + stops etb exile effects, so it does protect your pws pretty well. It also slows down all your opps while you are able to accelerate with the pws.
@Alkhemia do you put Panharmonicon and Torpor Orb/Hushbringer/Hushwing Griff in every white deck?
I hope not.
Manascape Refractor is the truth… I run it in my Karuga deck…
I'm actually shocked it has 0%.
curves with dowsing dagger!
fragile but possibly the best 3 drop mana rock
One thing on the Elesh topic: I don't think it's busted or broken either but it has the unfortunate side effect that Hinata had: You have a very powerful build-around effect that got kind of sabotaged by the negative effect for your opponents. Hinata is an X spell tribal deck, but everyone hates your commander because it increases their costs, not just because Hinata is powerful. Similarly, a Panharmonicon on a stick is super good and could be a build-around, but everyone will hate it just because every deck has incidental ETBs and it shuts those off. So I really don't like the design of the card, completely ignoring how powerful or not powerful it is. In commander specifically it won't lead to much fun playing as or against Elesh I feel like.
If you want an ETB doubler, Yarok has been around for a few years. Plus he’s in good colors! Unless you really want mono-white ETB tribal
@@TransformersBoss I mean, white is where all the good blink stuff is. Yarok is a doubler, but the color doesn’t really have good ways of building around it
@@zacharyenglish2904 Ghostly Flicker and Temur Sabre Tooth say hello.
Ehh I don’t think the cost increasing part is what makes Hinata threatening to people or why they don’t like to play against her. I do agree though that I’m not a fan of designs where doing your fun thing also means shutting down your opponent’s fun things.
I think we can agree that the card deserves recognition as annoying. And some people actually like that. We should all be building decks we would love to lose against. And be playing against those kind of decks too. I hope the community will prove to be aware about these chemistries among players.
I'm excited for Clever Concealment in my Rhys the Redeemed deck. I think it is as good if not better than Teferi's Protection in that specific deck since I can effectively cast it for free by tapping elf tokens.
They keep calling Wanderer a watered down Wrath, but her board wipe effect is _significantly_ better than Wrath imo. Even if she didn't stick around afterward as a planeswalker, it'd be a pretty good sorcery.
I also don't think it's comparable to Elesh as, nine times out of ten, it doesn't miss anything you aren't fine with missing. Elesh also doesn't hit the biggest wrath targets, token spam and low cmc creature spam, while Wanderer excels against them.
People are also sleeping on the +1. It doesn't say a creature you control and the creature returns at the creature's owner's end step. That means I can blink your Ishin every turn, and you'll never get to double your attack triggers. Blink a Muldrotha and they won't get to use their graveyard. Blink Prosper and his Exile effect will never trigger, etc.
It’s more akin to Tragic Arrogance than Wrath. Plus it forces them to sac the creatures, so it gets around Indestructible too!
Wanderer is a an amazing card for Negan too, you can play her on curve right after Negan then if theres at least 9 other creatures across your opponents you get the mana right back from spending on Wanderer. Her +1 also flickers Negan himself or your Portal to Phyrexia
Shout out to the universe Within/ street fighter remakes. Some of these new made up characters look so cool. Ironic too that Zangief/Maarika looks an awful lot like an upcoming fighting character in the upcoming sf6 game, Marisa whose also a gladiator fighter
It's heresy, but I think I like the new characters a lot better than the SF versions. I'm a huge sucker for saw-toothed katanas (Zethi) and spellblade characters (Aisha)!
Personally I’m excited for the Wanderer card for my Djeru mono white walkers and Nissa for Greensleeves where I have a lot of Nissas.
I don't really like planeswalkers, especially in commander, but The Eternal Wanderer is going straight into my Yorion deck. It's particularly good in Yorion because you can play Yorion, flicker out your board, then wipe with Wanderer choosing your Yorion, and essentially get a one-sided wipe.
Also yeah I absolutely love Vat of Rebirth
I actually agree with Crim about Body and Mind, WITH the caveat you use in a deck designed to hose the graveyard. Body and Mind with a RIP on the battlefield? C'est Magnifique!
What's great about Clever Concealment, is that you choose what permanents of yours will phase out unlike Teferi's Protection which gets everything no matter what. So you could keep around your "stax/draw" (mystic remora, rhystic study, smothering tithe) pieces while protecting other key cards or protect only the things that would be affected by a particular type of board wipe like artifacts , creatures or enchantments. It's insanely flexible.
I feel like the strongest argument against Forge & Frontier is that people don't play Exploration/Oracle of Mul Daya/etc as staple ramp - "play one more land this turn" effects by themselves are not reliable, and the compounding caveats of combat damage and drawing/exiling into extra lands are too much for an average deck.
You blew my mind with your take on vat of rebirth, absolutely A+
Most decks could save themselves the trouble by using Coffin Queen. Yeah, they're slightly different use cases, but I'd prefer the one that's easier to set up. Also, you get to hit any graveyard.
I thought Vat of Rebirth looked absolutely cracked when it was spoiled. I think most decks can get it to reanimate a creature per turn in the late game. It looks nuts.
Bro searching and putting a Serra’s sanctum in your graveyard with the Murray safe house out is awesome 😂
With Elesh isn't it quite different than Panharmonicon? She doubles all permanents and not just creatures. Huge difference for Landfall
That's key to it being better than most Panharmonicon type cards. The majority of them only double certain permanent types.
Mirran safe house is a trap card, unless you’re doing combos it’s unplayable
You could just play more removal in your EDH decks. Elish Norn has no evasion. :)
EDH players are so greedy these days.
You want to be able to use insane lands, but hate land removal.
You want to be able to play powerful ETB effects, but hate when someone tries to stop it.
You want no one to stop your own plans unless it's the specific way you want that's very easy for your deck, which lacks proper removal, to recover from.
People get so bad about a lot of the Praetors, but JG Progress Tyrant is the only one with built-in protection of any kind! Run removal!
Mirran Safehouse and Emeria Shepherd gets all the plains from your deck if you have a fetch in graveyard
I'm with Richard, the safehouse is going to be super popular. I'll be putting it into about 15 decks
For the HS folks, Elish is a Brann Bronzebeard that also prevents your opponents from triggering battelcry. OP
Elesh Norn has the same problem as Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund. If someone plays a clone effect - you are screwed. Make sure to include sacrifice Outlets to prevent this from happening
I'm surprised nobody brought up Flux Channeler when discussing Ichormoon outside superfriends decks. It's a 3 mana card that says "when you cast a noncreature spell, proliferate" which is just better than Gauntlet's second effect by a mile if you don't care about planeswalkers. Also that card is an uncommon soooo
The mycosyth gardens is the only card from the set i'm really interested in for an existing deck, i'll probably get a norn and the dominus cycle as well.
As someone who tried manascape refractor for a while, I don't think Mirran Safehouse will see much play tbh.
It took me a while, but staff of compleation in Vilis Broker of Blood would be insane, tap gain mana and draw 2 cards, or tap draw 5 cards!!!
The new Elesh is not a problem... Play against OG Vorinclex and then get back to me.
I agreed.
Mirran Safehouse is terramorphic expanse as a floor at a table of all precons. It does seem like a good windgrace/crucible/titania card. It just goes away if you use it to fetch, and your nykthos has to be in the GY to get the ability on the safehouse. im not sure I agree with it outside of the specific archetype.
I know y'all have already discussed Elesh before, but one thing that came up in this episode that was new: I don't think we should use the argument that Elesh Norn is "fine" because it's expensive, so most people won't play it due to its price.
It's price is indicative of its gamewarping power, just like Dockside. Casual players would gladly run both of those cards if they were $10, and Commander nights at my LGS would be miserable.
Staff of completion can be amazing in the good deck. But I agree you have to have a bit of synergy.
It's great in my Karumonix deck.
5 mana+6 life to proliferate twice is amazing to finish someone with poison counters. And sometimes it draw a card or makes a mana.
Note about Zenith Chronicler: It triggers off of Commanders, so unless your playgroup has a few monocolored commanders, it should trigger pretty reliably. It's not an autoinclude for most decks, but I think it should be considered in monocolored decks, especially if your deck wants draw, artifacts, and/or aggressive creatures.
EleshMommy ::: will be interesting to see how it ends up looking in the wild… I opened one… trying to figure out which / if any deck it will fit in …
Staff of completion is a phyrexian arena with upside in mono white, especially if you have life gain. Thing will be a staple in mono white at least, I'm sure of it.
I'm also really high on Mirran Safehouse. I think it's fine in White since you already use Lotus Field to set up your ramp, you've got your Strip Mine, your Fetchland. Worst case you've got a 3 mana rock.
Also it's insane to me the lengths the crew will go to justify their insane deckbuilding strategy of "basic lands are unplayable".
it is consistently one of the funniest things that 3 of them are just like "basics are trash" and then there's Tomer, just dying in the corner.
someone just needs to start running more price of progress and just go full aggro mode lol
@@nikhilchhagan7371 I play like, 6, but I think something along the lines of 4 is still reasonable. 2 is definitely not enough, but if you have the money to play cooler cards, then why not? They also play like, way more lands in general then I think is necessary
The new sword is the same cost as an Urban Evolution, except you have to connect. Urban Evolution is good, but not better than untapping all your lands. You also don't get to keep the cards that the sword exiles, it's impulse draw. So it's good, especially as a repeatable effect, but it's not nearly as good as feast and famine.
Richard is awful confident about mirran safehouse, outside a lands deck I'm not so sure you can call it a nature's law as you need to play an awful lot of fetches/self mill to turn it on by turn 3 reliably
8:25 "look at that body" 😂🤖
Can't believe Tomer didn't mention Roar of Resistance in Slicer. Slicer doing 10 damage every turn!
I really like the Wanderer, especially because the flicker ability can be used offensively and defensively thanks to the "that player's next end step" clause. You can bounce your Spirit Companion and draw a card sure, or you can deny your opponent a crucial creature/artifact for an entire turn cycle. Without an answer you can permanently lock an opponent out of using one of their creatures or artifacts outside of your upkeep if wrathing or making bodies isn't what you need at the moment. The 2/2 double striker can even be good in various decks or just as value.
Yep, everyone's sleeping on the ability to shut out opponents. Muldrotha giving you a problem? That's OK, blink it, and that player no longer has access to their graveyard. Shut down Prosper's exile effect or Atraxa's proliferate. Ishin stops doubling attack triggers. Miirym won't double up on dragons. Lathril won't get to make a bunch of elves.
you can just pay for the roar of resistance once... per combat, well hello extra combats!
I'm so happy Richard has finally accepted The Cod Father XD
Christ evertime they talk about swords the whole conversation gets derailed when crim starts talking
Roar of Resistance triggers on each combat step, so that includes your own additional combat steps. You're welcome.
Vat of Rebirth is a sleeper for gy decks. I already am imagining returning creatures with etbs. Like eternal witness to get any card you want. Then sacrifice him to ashnods to get 2 colorless; refunding most the cost and getting another oil counter.
Crim popping off about Ichormoon Gauntlet was hilarious lmao
Clever Concealment is better that teferis protection in a jetmir deck
Or in a Myrel deck.
Goldwardens' Gambit is nice because it's a sneaky go wide option for voltron decks. I don't know if it's gonna be an awesome finisher, but in the right deck is gonna get people when they don't expect it
Something about Clever Concealment... since it can be 0 mana it's the easiest way to board wipe, hold priority then dodge your own board wipe. The board wipe can even be something like an ondu inversion or hour of revelation since it protects all nonland permanents.
Eternal Wanderer’s +1 can also be defensive. It’s not forever, but it buys you a turn without one of your opponents best artifacts or creatures on the battlefield if you don’t have the removal for it.
Sad not to see Mycosynth Garden. That's my pick for most played by end of year.
Every time Crim says “Phyrexian CAKE” im pretty sure he’s secretly referring to Norns booty… and I’m here for it 😎 I see you out here😂
Staff of Compleation is great in stuff like mono white lifegain and something like elves with cards like Essence Warden to constantly recoup the life loss. Having said that people still pay 8 life multiple times with Sylvan Library to draw 2 extra cards a lot of the time so people might be greedier than they're letting on.
I too love zenith chronicler. I have been trying to find my perfect colorless deck. I didn’t wanna do Eldrazi stuff. Then the last few sets we’ve gotten a colorless growing artifact legend with evasion, a new sword of with card advantage, and then this little phyrexian dude! My playgroup loves multicolored decks. I’m genuinely the only person that consistently brings a mono colored deck or two. This is pretty dang cool! He’s just a cute lil guy!
52:45 Crim dropping truth bombs left and right, oh my. XP
So I think there is an argument to play Mirran Safehouse in Green too. I love the Nature's Lore effects so much that I play Into the North, Wood Elves, and Yavimaya Dryad in all of the decks that want Nature's Lore (multicolored decks specifically). I am willing to pay 3 mana for this effect, even if I cannot use the Wood Elves body very well. This is why I have considered even Spoils of Victory in decks. Spoils of Victory is 3 mana Farseek, but you can get Forests with Spoils of Victory. So I would heavily consider Mirran Safehouse even in Green decks.
Zenith Chronicler in Nekusar or DMU Sheoldred sounds kind of insane
I feel like the crew, outside of Richard, looks at Elesh norm as two seperate effects, panharmonicon and torpor orb which are individually fine. They look at Dranith magistrate and say that card is ok so why elesh is worse. Because Elesh does both at once, always. It is as if dranith magistrate let you cast cards from graveyard and exile on top of his abil. The card is mega oppressive incidentally to its incredible value generation. Idk, I think Sheldon has a point, I really cba seeing this card everytime there is a deck with white in it.
Ichormoon Gauntlet helps proliferate the Filibuster counters to make you win the game.
It can also get energy, experience, time, etc.
The tragedy of Sword of Truth and Justice, not even making it into Crim's rankings
Tomer, Richard, and Seth: Sword of Body and Mind is the worst sword
Sword of Truth and Justice: at least mention me
Richard: “3-mana colorless ramp is so unheard of!”
Wayferer’s Bauble, Skyclave Relic, manascape Refractor, do none of these exist in your mind?
I mean those are staples and safehouse is just as good most of the time and can literally win you the game in it's good cases. It's miles above the others, the card is really kinda cracked.
shocker that richard, the person who never plays removal, is against elesh norn lol
I don't understand how the floor on mirran safe house is 3 mana rock or 3 mana fetch land. Isn't the actual floor 3 mana and do literally nothing because there are no lands in graveyards or a rest in peace is in play or something?
I get that's not super likely, especially in this playgroup, but why the dishonesty?
I pulled a Staff of Compleation and immediately considered slotting it into my Sheoldred deck, so you're basically paying 2 life per draw. Not too bad at that point.
Does this mean that elesh norn is Marie Antoinette? LET THEM COMPLEAT CAKE!!!
The Junji Ito and Ichor ink artworks are just so freaking good. Also what’s with Eternal Wanderer Alt Greyscale looking like Old Kamigawa Snake art?
I have nothing to back this up, but from what I've seen of the greyscale arts of the non-compleat planeswalkers, it looks like the art is a "this is what this character would look like if they were compleated" take.
Will any members of the crew be at Magic Con Philly next weekend?!
What is richard talking about mirran safehouse... that thing will have next to no impact outside of lands decks
edit: maybe he wants to sell a few of these...
Going to add staff to my Kaalia deck that run Villis. Every life loss adds to additional card draw. So pay 4 life = draw 5 with staff. Also in Atrax Superfriends with the new proliferate doubler. So pay 3 proliferate twice is strong.
Clever concealment for free is an insane combo with farewell:
Cast farewell all modes
In response - convoke for 4 Clever concealment free instant
i truly believe that this legendary garage will be clean someday.
I love the predictive Marvel crossover 😊
Also, I play a bunch of these cards and they’re quite fun!
The thumbnail makes Seth look like he’s elesh norn
I'll take it
Everybody sleeps on the utility of The Eternal Wanderer's +1. They only think about blinking their own creatures, but it says "at the beginning of that player's end step". So you can blink an opponent's creature that cares about combat or has some other sorcery speed benefit and nullify it completely.
Just a small list of commanders that could be nullified by this +1: Ishin, Slicer, Atraxa, Lathril, Prosper (mostly), Muldrotha, Miirym (unless they can cast dragons at instant speed), Kaalia, etc.
Dunks hard on Skullbriar too!
Roar of Resistance is definitely getting tested in Jaheira + Street Urchin creature token version!
roar of resistance its not just once multiple combat decks rejoice
Zenith Chronicler + Smuggler Share seems pretty fun too.
Staff of Compleation is going to do so much work in my Villis deck
Wanderer's +1 is way more than just a blink. It removes a creature/artifact during its controllers turn. That's so much more utility than just "oh 1 extra etb"
roar of resistance its not just once multiple combat decks rejoice
I played my elf commander deck and I had a heroic intervention on hand... and got wiped three times because I never had the mana open... needless to say I love clever concealment. plus I have one teferis protection but could use it in like 5-6 decks.
I never thought I'd love to see the day Dr. Strange and Dr. Anime were on the same podcast.
Today the eternal wanderer is in over 32,000 decks, where elesh norne is in under 5,000 according to edhrec
On the topic of staff of completion people readily pay 4 or 8 life to draw with Sylvan library so it's the same cost with staff 🤷
Feb 7, 2023: my pick for the most broken card is mycosynth gardens
Staff of completion tho....y'all underrated this card
Tomer --> Heartwood Storyteller's draw is a may so they can choose not to in order to prevent Notion Thief stealing draws. I like the card, don't get me wrong but I won't run it beside Notion Thief because they turn each other off.
I love the white phyrexian art and red velvet cake 😊
Mirran Safehouse….. when your boss at work has a dumb idea and you don’t have the gusto to speak up and tell him he’s smoking rocks….
I love the Goldfish gang and their dynamic but the discussion around Elesh Norn frustrated me to no end.
Richard whining about being forced to interact because of 7-mana torpor orb that 90% of the time you'll see coming from the command zone? Come on, man. And Seth's response of it being restrictively expensive being an upside felt just kind of tone deaf.
Real talk, I don't know if I'm now "too casual" for real EDH talk or if the CC crew have slowly pushed themselves out of the edh crowd that they used to represent.
Most pods I play with don't have any fetches in them. Richard's suggestion of playing 5 in mono blue to increase the likelihood that your three mana artifact works as a ramp spell just seems wild to me