Saying I can't justify money for a 2011 is like saying I cant justify money for a rolex. It's a luxury item, you can never justify the price based on utility.
Eh. You can get a cheapo 2011 and do some work on it to get it working really nicely. I would have agreed with you a year or two ago, but I think the market is changing.
It is like buying a civic or buying a corvette. You can modify the civic all you want to drive like a corvette, but at the end of the day, you still have a civic. Not everyone likes to drive a civic.
@medikpac7105 I'll believe it when I see it. The fit, finish, and performance of cheaper 2011s has been underwhelming to me so far. Modifying 2011s involves enough fitting and blending that you're just insourcing the gunsmithing cost of a nicer 2011 by performing it yourself and YMWV based on your own attention to detail and mechanical affinity. You're also prone to run into issues with less rigid QC affecting sear alignment due to frame holes being out of spec. They're cool project guns for sure, but youre just substituting the cost of your own skilled labor for an actual gunsmith's.
To add on to the pushing question -- make sure you're actually intensely target focused on a small spot. Drill a small spot with your laser eyes. A lot of people (myself included) will start just focusing on the target as a whole, especially once you're pushing the speed or transitions. So you can be "target" focused and still have an issue Also your grip could be bad lol
@@HanzHermannHoppe Yeah. It should really be "how target focused are you?" Just like with dot confirmation, target focus is a spectrum. Got a 3yd open target that I'll be transitioning away from in a quarter of a second anyway? I can be loose with both my target focus and color confirmation for the dot. 7yd, low probability hit? Gonna need to focus harder and settle my dot a little more.
The analogy Ben made about driving a car with your vision really clicked with me. When you're driving you don't think before you turn "oh well this is a 90 degree angle..." --you just look at the place you want the car to go and your body knows what it needs to do to steer the car to that spot.
Got myself a BUL Armory SAS II 4.25" and absolutely love it. Liked it more than my friends staccato even. Obviously more expensive than the prodigy but if you're going to be modifying your prodigy anyway, maybe look into one of those.
Owned 2 two prodigies. 4.25 and a 5. Both piles of dog ftf and fte crap. A platypus is a better buy or save for a staccato. Honestly, a Tisas DS is actually amazing for the money as well at 750$
I wanted a staccato. Was going to get a prodigy for the $ diff but my wife said I was settling and wouldn't be happy. She said get the staccato. I have a staccato P 😊
I think the thing most people fail to think about regarding 2011’s is the same rule that applies to any manufactured good: a product made at a lower volume with a high standard for quality will cost more than the same product of similar quality made at higher volumes or a product made at similar volumes but held to a lower quality standard. Part of this is economy of scale as it relates to the direct manufacturing processes, but the other thing that drives the cost is quality control/QC. You’re not paying 2-4 times more for a staccato or whatever because it has 2-4 times more/better features. You pay the premium price for the costs associated with delivering a consistently good product and the associated service that should accompany that price. You want to pay 25-75% less? Cool, go for it. Just understand that your odds of getting a lemon just went up in direct proportion. There’s nothing wrong with pursuing either tactic as a consumer, you just need to be comfortable with what your money may or may not get you.
It is like buying a civic or buying a corvette. You can modify the civic all you want to drive like a corvette, but at the end of the day, you still have a civic. Not everyone likes to drive a civic.
Prodigy is not an “out of the box” gun for most. While I didn’t spend as much as a Staccato to get mine reliable, I can do some simple gunsmithing tasks. If you can’t, you’re gonna most likely be in Bul Armory to used Staccato money anyways.
Having recently also gone down the “budget 2011” road I have to say the tisas B9R is the best value for money. Still uses staccato mags, the slide, frame and internals are all heat treated hammer forged 4140. With some simple stone work and spring tuning I got the trigger to a crisp 3lbs. The grip isn’t grippy but nothing sports tape wasn’t able to fix. I did quickly get tired of the RMSc optic cut but 25 minutes on my mill I converted it to trijicon RMR plates. Even if I wasn’t a smith and had to farm this work out it would still be cheaper than buying a prodigy and I’ve been ripping rounds through this like no tomorrow with 0 failures. Roast me for Turk garbage but it’s nice garbage
The new Girsan Witness2311 match X is looking pretty damn good! Especially for all the features, and it’s under $1100. Looking forward to the reviews on it
Hi Ben. What would you say is the biggest difference between a B-class shooter vs an A-class shooter vs a Master? And how would someone bridge those gaps in their journey w mostly a dry fire practice and if it’s possible? I’m currently a low B and am trying to find ways to improve my dry fire to perform much better at matches. Thanks.
I’d say being able to flow stages, shooting on the move, efficiency of movement, and transitions. You can practice all of that in dryfire. Take notes after matches, see what you personally need to work on. The faster you become self aware, the faster you’ll progress. Then for GMs it’s performing consistently.
I have a 5inch prodigy im using to compete. I am shooting it stock right now and have about 1 k through it. So far no hiccups. But i keep it clean and lubed. Its gets gummy quick with the cerakote coming off. I have bought all the upgrades, just havent installed them yet.
Ben, my grip is good, I focus at a spot on the target, I practice the one-shot-return often and my groups are acceptable at speed but it seems like no matter what I do I will still shoot just slightly left. I try to convince myself that it’s my red dot that’s off but I know for a fact it isn’t. What can I do to help get that trigger to pull straight back every time?
I picked up a Springfield Prodigy a while back, first 2011 I've gotten my hand on and I gotta say I do like it. I kept it stock and I shoot it relatively well. I cant comment on how it compares to a Stacatto first hand but I've heard other people say things along the lines of its like 80% of the performance for almost 50% of the price. Overall I'm happy with it, but for whatever reason I still prefer my Glock.
If you're getting a Prodigy, you are VERY likely to modify it. Speaking from personal experience, the 4.25 was my preference over the 5 inch that my buddy had, but that's partially because the Prodigy is a bit of a hog.
Ben,can you get your hands on the bargain XC 2011 by Tisas they will be announced at shot show. The marketing man says it will come in at an even lower price than last years pistol line up .
I'll never understand why someone who presumably has a duty-grade gun wants to replace that gun with an unreliable one and costs more, but doesn't want to save more for the gun they actually want that checks all the blocks (assuming Staccato doesn't send them a gun they know to be defective before it leaves Staccato's hands but nonetheless ship, hoping they get a customer who doesn't actually shoot the thing).
If I wanted to start competing and use the new staccato c am I going to have a bad time? At what point do you think a person should switch from their carry gun in competition to a "race" gun?
Question re: target focused with red dot. I’m left eye dominant with a right eye that is pretty much useless. I’ve been so frustrated trying to shoot with my red dot that I took it off. Am I crazy to think that because of my useless non-dominant eye, that is the reason I can’t shoot with a red dot, as well as when I tried it occluded..? I seem to shoot more comfortably with iron sights. Thoughts would be welcome. 🙏
I’m no expert but I don’t see how you could shoot occluded if you’re left eye dominant and have vision issues in your right. You need your right eye to see the target in that scenario. If you’re shooting unoccluded you should be fine so long as the gun is being centered with your left eye upon index. It’s just going to be harder to be target focused but you can possibly work through that. Best of luck.
I have amblyopia also. Very little if no binocular vision. Unfortunately all of these occlude the dot recommendations will not work for people like us who don’t have normal fusion with the eyes. I do the best I can pretty much using one eye. I’m sure it’s why I struggle with target focus since only the one eye is really doing anything. Have made B class so far who knows if I will ever get higher. All I can say is just keep training on trying to focus on small spots in the target.
I have a buddy that only has one eye, the other one is glass and he kicks butt using a red dot. You will still have to put the work in to find the dot every time on demand.
Mike Pannone has a video on UA-cam where’s he’s shooting occluded and tapping his glass eye with his mag I’ve never met him, or trained with him but maybe reach out and see if you can pick his brain or train with him
@@zaiquiri1799 for sure. I find it hard to stay target focused with my condition. I can still shoot with the dot but not like I’d like to if both eyes work functional. 🙏
Just my two cents... the 4.25" prodigy seems to have a better reputation for reliability out of the box... mine has just under 1000k rounds and 1 match on it with zero malfunctions. This could just be due to them being slightly oversprung in my opinion. Either way i couldn't be happier. Looking forward to many more matches in 2025
Ben, would you say training on redacted size targets at a closer distance is apples to apples as full size at regular distance? My range hangers can only accommodate certain size targets so I use the smaller size uspsa, the A zone on them is approx iPhone sized
Once I really focused on the "buying guns like this are an emotional response, and you should buy what speaks to you" I don't have to justify my purchase. It is a ton of money, and if you are that concerned, buy a used gun. This platform has been around long enough that parts are available and can be replaced.
Ben i have a problem i can't find a way to fix. After i finish shooting a string, say a bill drill, I'll watch a video and my hands are shaking like i have freaking tourettes or some shit. Times are good, hits are fine, but it feels unstable and i know its going to hinder me from progressing at some point. Tips?
Hello Ben, regarding the return to zero. Can some of this be tuning of the gun, if it's landing on the high side a heavier recoil spring can help or visa a versa?
I am currently training with a Glock 17 and a 34. In your opinion, are these guns similar enough to be worthwhile swapping back-and-forth while training or should I sell one and do a 34/34 or 17/17 combo?
See....isn't it better to actually help questioners/commenters and treat them with some respect, rather than making fun of them for doing something incorrectly?
Ben, you should try a Prodigy and give a first-hand opinion. There are several budget 2011 pistols, even cheaper than the Prodigy (Tisas, Rock Island, Girsan, Bull, etc.). Many people have given it a bad reputation because they compare it to the Staccato and expect it to be flawless. The fact that it has many internal components (MIM parts) has generated negative opinions, but in summary, it retains the same main structure as the 2011 models, though without the external refinements. I have one for USPSA, and I replaced the critical components for the sport, which cost less than $300. The performance has been excellent. That was my experience.
I think people need to take stock of what things actually cost. 2500 dollars may seem like a lot compared to a 400 dollar plastic gun but look at items in your house. I’m sure you’ll find multiple things that cost thousands of dollars with hundred dollar alternatives. My tv cost 2k, my laptop is 2k, iPhone im typing this on 1k, hell my artificial Christmas tree I bought this year was 1.2k. Point being, things cost money. A 400 dollar tv still plays Netflix but I value an OLED experience. It’s the type of experience you’re paying for. This is my opinion your mileage may vary.
The question posed here, that I'm inferring, is what the guy can 'get away with', what corners he can cut, and still have a reasonable/worthwhile experience. If paying the difference of a 1000$ results in a noticeable-but-ultimately-irrelevant-for-most gain, then people that must choose their purchases carefully, who don't have a huge budget, are generally gonna cut that 1000$. I bought a 10k 2016 stock standard Honda Civic about 8 months ago. A lot of people (a *lot* of them...) told me all about if I spend a few thousand more I can get this add-on and that turbocharger and this-that trim. But all that is more wear-and-tear, higher potential insurance, etc. I don't *need* any of it in the face of medical bills that cost me ~300$ a month. It would be nice, but no, I'm thinking on the margin, and the margin isn't enough for me to spring on it. Same for this viewer I suspect: he has enough money to make a reasonable, beginner entry into the field, but not a huge surplus of wealth for the best pistol ever. So given that a much cheaper pistol ultimately does the same job given a few non-consequential pluses, yeah, he's gonna save that money. Like, he wouldn't have asked the question if he could throw several thousands of dollars at TVs and Christmas trees.
1.2k for an artificial Christmas tree? I've got two of them from the early 1960's, one green and one white, I'll sell you both of them for $800 shipped. They are antiques you know. They don't make them like these gems anymore. Haven't been used in about 45 years and come in the original box.
Cost is not just price. True cost is the money you’ll never get back. High price with high value retention is low cost, just with a barrier to entry. A $2K TV or a $2K laptop is worth, what, in five or ten years-a few hundred bucks? Substantial electronics become obsolete through innovation (1080P to 4K to 8K OLED, and so on). Those cost real money. A good premium 2011, in good shape, is always going to fetch a major portion of its purchase price. 75-80% depending on demand. That’s what it really costs: 20-25% of the money you pay for it, sometimes less if you buy the right specs and treat it well. It’s less “buying something expensive” and more “parking liquidity in something you can always sell later, minus a small usage fee.”
You are probably right, BUT, I agree, not everyone can drop 2500 dollars on a new platform. The prodigy may require a level of energy up front, but let's not pretend you didn't label your staccato a hot crazy chick that ultimately had to be sent back to the factory.
I carry for work OWB level 3 holster, but compete. Should I stick to a level 2 holster for comp, or go non retention, will it effect my dry fire if i go non retention
You have to decide what you want from going to competitions. If it's just to improve your skills for work, run your duty gear without modification. If you want to chase peak sport performance/ match placement (especially at the state/area level), a dedicated competition belt/holster/mag pouches will make your life significantly easier. If you use separate holsters for work and competitions, you'll have to double your dryfire working on the draw.
Don’t look at your dot your dot is not a target focus on the target the dot will do what it’s supposed to do you do you and the dot will do good if you can’t than go to iron sights if your cross eye dominant don’t get a dot.
Does every comment section have to be people talking about whether 2011's are worth it or not? If you think so buy one and if you don't then don't. Literally what is the point of trying to convince strangers on the internet one way or another
You can absolutely get into the 2011 game for substantially less. Buy a cheap imported one or a used one, tune it up yourself (or via gunsmith) for a few hundred bucks and voila, you've got a pretty good option.
Well buy the cheaper gun and whinge the rest of you're life! People want the best but don't want to pay! Poor man buys twice! Better to buy once cry once asap. Then just train with that 1 quality pistol.
The information stated in the second half of this short video can take many years to learn on your own. As always, thanks Ben.
I never could learn it and gave up.
Saying I can't justify money for a 2011 is like saying I cant justify money for a rolex. It's a luxury item, you can never justify the price based on utility.
Well buy a vostek watch from Russia 95$ and does 99% or like a Tisas 2011 get 97%
Eh. You can get a cheapo 2011 and do some work on it to get it working really nicely. I would have agreed with you a year or two ago, but I think the market is changing.
It is like buying a civic or buying a corvette. You can modify the civic all you want to drive like a corvette, but at the end of the day, you still have a civic. Not everyone likes to drive a civic.
@medikpac7105 I'll believe it when I see it. The fit, finish, and performance of cheaper 2011s has been underwhelming to me so far. Modifying 2011s involves enough fitting and blending that you're just insourcing the gunsmithing cost of a nicer 2011 by performing it yourself and YMWV based on your own attention to detail and mechanical affinity. You're also prone to run into issues with less rigid QC affecting sear alignment due to frame holes being out of spec. They're cool project guns for sure, but youre just substituting the cost of your own skilled labor for an actual gunsmith's.
@@HanzHermannHoppe you are right. You will definitely feel the difference between a cheap and an expensive 2011, even with a blindfold.
Well distilled info, offered up succinctly. THAT is the mark of a person who knows, Thanks Ben!
Optics ready DWX ✨️
Explanation of the dot tracking makes a lot of sense. I was doing that today at the range. Will be focusing more on the target next time. Thanks Ben !
To add on to the pushing question -- make sure you're actually intensely target focused on a small spot. Drill a small spot with your laser eyes. A lot of people (myself included) will start just focusing on the target as a whole, especially once you're pushing the speed or transitions. So you can be "target" focused and still have an issue
Also your grip could be bad lol
@@0dayExploit to use some of Ben's old advice, "are you target focused" isnt the yes or no question people think it is.
@@HanzHermannHoppe Yeah. It should really be "how target focused are you?" Just like with dot confirmation, target focus is a spectrum. Got a 3yd open target that I'll be transitioning away from in a quarter of a second anyway? I can be loose with both my target focus and color confirmation for the dot. 7yd, low probability hit? Gonna need to focus harder and settle my dot a little more.
The analogy Ben made about driving a car with your vision really clicked with me. When you're driving you don't think before you turn "oh well this is a 90 degree angle..." --you just look at the place you want the car to go and your body knows what it needs to do to steer the car to that spot.
Got myself a BUL Armory SAS II 4.25" and absolutely love it. Liked it more than my friends staccato even. Obviously more expensive than the prodigy but if you're going to be modifying your prodigy anyway, maybe look into one of those.
BUL Armory seems to remain a sleeper in the 2011 world. IDK how it truely matches up to the competition, though I've been loving my edc 4.25".
I have virtually the same gun being the edc pro. I absolutely love it too!! I have a shadow and xfive and the edc is better by far
Owned 2 two prodigies. 4.25 and a 5. Both piles of dog ftf and fte crap. A platypus is a better buy or save for a staccato. Honestly, a Tisas DS is actually amazing for the money as well at 750$
I wanted a staccato. Was going to get a prodigy for the $ diff but my wife said I was settling and wouldn't be happy. She said get the staccato. I have a staccato P 😊
I think the thing most people fail to think about regarding 2011’s is the same rule that applies to any manufactured good: a product made at a lower volume with a high standard for quality will cost more than the same product of similar quality made at higher volumes or a product made at similar volumes but held to a lower quality standard. Part of this is economy of scale as it relates to the direct manufacturing processes, but the other thing that drives the cost is quality control/QC. You’re not paying 2-4 times more for a staccato or whatever because it has 2-4 times more/better features. You pay the premium price for the costs associated with delivering a consistently good product and the associated service that should accompany that price. You want to pay 25-75% less? Cool, go for it. Just understand that your odds of getting a lemon just went up in direct proportion. There’s nothing wrong with pursuing either tactic as a consumer, you just need to be comfortable with what your money may or may not get you.
🇺🇸
More technique questions, love it
Excellent information just in that one question, thanks Ben.
It is like buying a civic or buying a corvette. You can modify the civic all you want to drive like a corvette, but at the end of the day, you still have a civic. Not everyone likes to drive a civic.
Prodigy is not an “out of the box” gun for most. While I didn’t spend as much as a Staccato to get mine reliable, I can do some simple gunsmithing tasks. If you can’t, you’re gonna most likely be in Bul Armory to used Staccato money anyways.
Having recently also gone down the “budget 2011” road I have to say the tisas B9R is the best value for money. Still uses staccato mags, the slide, frame and internals are all heat treated hammer forged 4140. With some simple stone work and spring tuning I got the trigger to a crisp 3lbs. The grip isn’t grippy but nothing sports tape wasn’t able to fix. I did quickly get tired of the RMSc optic cut but 25 minutes on my mill I converted it to trijicon RMR plates. Even if I wasn’t a smith and had to farm this work out it would still be cheaper than buying a prodigy and I’ve been ripping rounds through this like no tomorrow with 0 failures. Roast me for Turk garbage but it’s nice garbage
The new Girsan Witness2311 match X is looking pretty damn good! Especially for all the features, and it’s under $1100. Looking forward to the reviews on it
Hi Ben. What would you say is the biggest difference between a B-class shooter vs an A-class shooter vs a Master? And how would someone bridge those gaps in their journey w mostly a dry fire practice and if it’s possible? I’m currently a low B and am trying to find ways to improve my dry fire to perform much better at matches. Thanks.
I’d say being able to flow stages, shooting on the move, efficiency of movement, and transitions. You can practice all of that in dryfire. Take notes after matches, see what you personally need to work on. The faster you become self aware, the faster you’ll progress. Then for GMs it’s performing consistently.
I have a 5inch prodigy im using to compete. I am shooting it stock right now and have about 1 k through it. So far no hiccups. But i keep it clean and lubed. Its gets gummy quick with the cerakote coming off. I have bought all the upgrades, just havent installed them yet.
I'm not sure it would be a suitable carry gun.
I’d love to see Ben review the Bul Tac Pro
Ben, my grip is good, I focus at a spot on the target, I practice the one-shot-return often and my groups are acceptable at speed but it seems like no matter what I do I will still shoot just slightly left. I try to convince myself that it’s my red dot that’s off but I know for a fact it isn’t. What can I do to help get that trigger to pull straight back every time?
I picked up a Springfield Prodigy a while back, first 2011 I've gotten my hand on and I gotta say I do like it. I kept it stock and I shoot it relatively well. I cant comment on how it compares to a Stacatto first hand but I've heard other people say things along the lines of its like 80% of the performance for almost 50% of the price. Overall I'm happy with it, but for whatever reason I still prefer my Glock.
My bone stock prodigy has been perfect. The trigger is sick. No need to change a thing.
If you're getting a Prodigy, you are VERY likely to modify it. Speaking from personal experience, the 4.25 was my preference over the 5 inch that my buddy had, but that's partially because the Prodigy is a bit of a hog.
Ben,can you get your hands on the bargain XC 2011 by Tisas they will be announced at shot show. The marketing man says it will come in at an even lower price than last years pistol line up .
I'll never understand why someone who presumably has a duty-grade gun wants to replace that gun with an unreliable one and costs more, but doesn't want to save more for the gun they actually want that checks all the blocks (assuming Staccato doesn't send them a gun they know to be defective before it leaves Staccato's hands but nonetheless ship, hoping they get a customer who doesn't actually shoot the thing).
Bul armory tac pro 2 is an xc competitor for half the price and all their guns have better triggers than staccatos
Thanks Ben
$1,100 for a CZ Shadow factory single action to me is far superior than a Prodigy. The Shadow SA never came optics ready and is now discontinued.
If I wanted to start competing and use the new staccato c am I going to have a bad time? At what point do you think a person should switch from their carry gun in competition to a "race" gun?
Question re: target focused with red dot.
I’m left eye dominant with a right eye that is pretty much useless. I’ve been so frustrated trying to shoot with my red dot that I took it off.
Am I crazy to think that because of my useless non-dominant eye, that is the reason I can’t shoot with a red dot, as well as when I tried it occluded..?
I seem to shoot more comfortably with iron sights. Thoughts would be welcome. 🙏
I’m no expert but I don’t see how you could shoot occluded if you’re left eye dominant and have vision issues in your right. You need your right eye to see the target in that scenario. If you’re shooting unoccluded you should be fine so long as the gun is being centered with your left eye upon index. It’s just going to be harder to be target focused but you can possibly work through that. Best of luck.
I have amblyopia also. Very little if no binocular vision. Unfortunately all of these occlude the dot recommendations will not work for people like us who don’t have normal fusion with the eyes. I do the best I can pretty much using one eye. I’m sure it’s why I struggle with target focus since only the one eye is really doing anything. Have made B class so far who knows if I will ever get higher. All I can say is just keep training on trying to focus on small spots in the target.
I have a buddy that only has one eye, the other one is glass and he kicks butt using a red dot. You will still have to put the work in to find the dot every time on demand.
Mike Pannone has a video on UA-cam where’s he’s shooting occluded and tapping his glass eye with his mag
I’ve never met him, or trained with him but maybe reach out and see if you can pick his brain or train with him
@@zaiquiri1799 for sure. I find it hard to stay target focused with my condition. I can still shoot with the dot but not like I’d like to if both eyes work functional. 🙏
Just my two cents... the 4.25" prodigy seems to have a better reputation for reliability out of the box... mine has just under 1000k rounds and 1 match on it with zero malfunctions. This could just be due to them being slightly oversprung in my opinion. Either way i couldn't be happier. Looking forward to many more matches in 2025
What do you think about the supposed staccatapus (staccato that takes glock mags)
Ben, would you say training on redacted size targets at a closer distance is apples to apples as full size at regular distance? My range hangers can only accommodate certain size targets so I use the smaller size uspsa, the A zone on them is approx iPhone sized
@@jordancalanchini3496 it won't correctly simulate distance changeups since part of that is your eye quickly changing focus.
If you're dragging your sights back on target, are you bending or locking your elbows?
Once I really focused on the "buying guns like this are an emotional response, and you should buy what speaks to you" I don't have to justify my purchase. It is a ton of money, and if you are that concerned, buy a used gun. This platform has been around long enough that parts are available and can be replaced.
Ben i have a problem i can't find a way to fix. After i finish shooting a string, say a bill drill, I'll watch a video and my hands are shaking like i have freaking tourettes or some shit. Times are good, hits are fine, but it feels unstable and i know its going to hinder me from progressing at some point.
Tips?
Hello Ben, regarding the return to zero. Can some of this be tuning of the gun, if it's landing on the high side a heavier recoil spring can help or visa a versa?
BEN PUT THE SIGHTMARK ON THE JP5
I am currently training with a Glock 17 and a 34. In your opinion, are these guns similar enough to be worthwhile swapping back-and-forth while training or should I sell one and do a 34/34 or 17/17 combo?
How far away can you shoot predictive A's ?
See....isn't it better to actually help questioners/commenters and treat them with some respect, rather than making fun of them for doing something incorrectly?
What happened to the Taj Mahal?
Ben, you should try a Prodigy and give a first-hand opinion. There are several budget 2011 pistols, even cheaper than the Prodigy (Tisas, Rock Island, Girsan, Bull, etc.). Many people have given it a bad reputation because they compare it to the Staccato and expect it to be flawless. The fact that it has many internal components (MIM parts) has generated negative opinions, but in summary, it retains the same main structure as the 2011 models, though without the external refinements.
I have one for USPSA, and I replaced the critical components for the sport, which cost less than $300. The performance has been excellent. That was my experience.
What do you think of the sig 320 axg legion?
I think people need to take stock of what things actually cost. 2500 dollars may seem like a lot compared to a 400 dollar plastic gun but look at items in your house. I’m sure you’ll find multiple things that cost thousands of dollars with hundred dollar alternatives. My tv cost 2k, my laptop is 2k, iPhone im typing this on 1k, hell my artificial Christmas tree I bought this year was 1.2k. Point being, things cost money. A 400 dollar tv still plays Netflix but I value an OLED experience. It’s the type of experience you’re paying for. This is my opinion your mileage may vary.
This!
The question posed here, that I'm inferring, is what the guy can 'get away with', what corners he can cut, and still have a reasonable/worthwhile experience. If paying the difference of a 1000$ results in a noticeable-but-ultimately-irrelevant-for-most gain, then people that must choose their purchases carefully, who don't have a huge budget, are generally gonna cut that 1000$. I bought a 10k 2016 stock standard Honda Civic about 8 months ago. A lot of people (a *lot* of them...) told me all about if I spend a few thousand more I can get this add-on and that turbocharger and this-that trim. But all that is more wear-and-tear, higher potential insurance, etc. I don't *need* any of it in the face of medical bills that cost me ~300$ a month. It would be nice, but no, I'm thinking on the margin, and the margin isn't enough for me to spring on it. Same for this viewer I suspect: he has enough money to make a reasonable, beginner entry into the field, but not a huge surplus of wealth for the best pistol ever. So given that a much cheaper pistol ultimately does the same job given a few non-consequential pluses, yeah, he's gonna save that money. Like, he wouldn't have asked the question if he could throw several thousands of dollars at TVs and Christmas trees.
1.2k for an artificial Christmas tree? I've got two of them from the early 1960's, one green and one white, I'll sell you both of them for $800 shipped. They are antiques you know. They don't make them like these gems anymore. Haven't been used in about 45 years and come in the original box.
You paid too much for all of those things, it's no surprise you'd advocate paying too much for a pistol too.
Cost is not just price. True cost is the money you’ll never get back. High price with high value retention is low cost, just with a barrier to entry.
A $2K TV or a $2K laptop is worth, what, in five or ten years-a few hundred bucks? Substantial electronics become obsolete through innovation (1080P to 4K to 8K OLED, and so on). Those cost real money.
A good premium 2011, in good shape, is always going to fetch a major portion of its purchase price. 75-80% depending on demand. That’s what it really costs: 20-25% of the money you pay for it, sometimes less if you buy the right specs and treat it well.
It’s less “buying something expensive” and more “parking liquidity in something you can always sell later, minus a small usage fee.”
Yo Ben. What's your go to AR stock?
is that a classroom or a hotel room?
Do you have to have a pedigree in order to run high end 2011s?!!!!
Books in the background… Ben can read? I thought Joel wrote those books for him.
You are probably right, BUT, I agree, not everyone can drop 2500 dollars on a new platform. The prodigy may require a level of energy up front, but let's not pretend you didn't label your staccato a hot crazy chick that ultimately had to be sent back to the factory.
Budget 2011 and saw Glock... I thought he was going to chat about the new STI rumors...
I carry for work OWB level 3 holster, but compete. Should I stick to a level 2 holster for comp, or go non retention, will it effect my dry fire if i go non retention
You have to decide what you want from going to competitions. If it's just to improve your skills for work, run your duty gear without modification. If you want to chase peak sport performance/ match placement (especially at the state/area level), a dedicated competition belt/holster/mag pouches will make your life significantly easier. If you use separate holsters for work and competitions, you'll have to double your dryfire working on the draw.
Don’t look at your dot your dot is not a target focus on the target the dot will do what it’s supposed to do you do you and the dot will do good if you can’t than go to iron sights if your cross eye dominant don’t get a dot.
I hate my prodigy 1k rds in and still got going into battery issues
Ben is use to a rolex not a timex. No use asking Ben about the Prodigy.
2500 for a 2011 is pretty cheap. Probably not ready for them yet 😅
Does every comment section have to be people talking about whether 2011's are worth it or not? If you think so buy one and if you don't then don't. Literally what is the point of trying to convince strangers on the internet one way or another
Why would this guy get in the 2011 game if he doesn’t compete and doesn’t have the disposable income for?!?
Free tacis, I can always justify tacos at Taco Bell, free or not
BEN WTF 😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯
"Looking to get in to the 2011 game. I can't justify 2500 on a handgun"
Sounds like the 2011 game isn't for you.
Hush. The adults are talking
Would you say the same thing about single stacks? because hour for hour a single stack costs more money to build than a 2011...
You can absolutely get into the 2011 game for substantially less. Buy a cheap imported one or a used one, tune it up yourself (or via gunsmith) for a few hundred bucks and voila, you've got a pretty good option.
SVI - you won’t regret it
Well buy the cheaper gun and whinge the rest of you're life! People want the best but don't want to pay! Poor man buys twice! Better to buy once cry once asap. Then just train with that 1 quality pistol.
I did exactly this shot 500 rounds of doubles and practical accuracy and I still suck. But as always thanks Ben. I guess when you suck you suck!🥹