Historian's Reaction to Gods and Generals Part 1
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- Опубліковано 13 вер 2020
- In this video, I react to the historicity of the movie Gods and Generals. From Robert E. Lee turning down an appointment to lead the Union Army to the Battle of Fredericksburg, this major motion picture attempted to depict the lives of Stonewall Jackson, Robert E. Lee, and Joshua Chamberlain. How historically accurate is Gods and Generals?
#CivilWar #Gettysburg #Review #MartinSheen #History #HaveHistoryWillTravel #JeffDaniels #MovieReview #MovieCritique #HistoricalReview #Grant #HistoryChannel #Historynerd #Historygeek #HistoryCritique #historymemes #historyofart #historyinthemaking #historynerd #historychannel #historybuff #historylover #historylesson #historyfacts #historygeek #historyinpictures #historymaker #historylovers #historyteacher #historymakers #historymeme #historytour #historymade #historytv18 #historymuseum
This video is for critique purposes only. All clips used are done so under fair use.
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The actor who played Gen. Hood in both movies is Patrick Gorman. He was a teacher of mine at the American Conservatory theater in San Francisco in the early 70s. He was terrific. Had a bit on him😏
🤨
He was vastly older than Hood. Uncanny valley.
@@jarrettfoust1610 Yep
Just realized the new recruits guy is the same guy that is fighting for his "ratts" in Gettysburg the movie
I noticed that too.
Colonel Adelbert Ames in the 20th Maine is also one of the mutineers from the 2nd Maine in Gettysburg.
@@HistoryGoneWilder
Right you mean the "These daaanm officers these daanm gentleman!" guy, I thought that he looked familiar. Good now I have an excuse to watch the movie again, haha
@@Alex-ej4wm They couldn't pour pee out of a boot with the instructions written under the heel.
Alex2614 no, the confederate prisoner from Gettysburg is the confederate new recruit in G&G who is killed at Chancellorsville.
Jeff Daniels is a great guy. He played Chamberlain well. None of us were there to know how accurate some of his actions are in the movie, but thanks to Gettysburg and G&G I’ve been more and more interested in Chamberlain.
You might talk to the descendants of The Confederacy.
History is skewed and written by the Victors.
-Cpl White, Davis E.
USMC 2002-2006
Combat Veteran
Son of The Confederacy
@@daviswhite3591 History is written by the survivors. Our understanding in the West of the War in the Eastern Front of WW2 was shaped by guys like Manstein and Guderian with little to not put from Soviet commanders like Zhukov, Timoshenko or Rokossovsky.
@Abdul Dinero and yet, most of the Western perspective of the War on the Eastern Front for the last 75 years was largely written by former NAZI generals and their tale tales of Russian “hordes”. Mainly because no one had access to Soviet records or archives during the Cold War. We all believe Longstreet’s account of his meetings with Lee mainly because Lee spoke very little after the war and died within a couple of years and so was not around to answer Longstreet’s allegations about Gettysburg. We also choose to believe that southern soldiers “didn’t fight for slavery” because the soldiers that made it home said so even though the very articles of secession ratified by each of the southern states listed it as reason numero uno for opting for independence. Even now the Lost Cause is in the ascendency once again. Only this time around, most States Rights and religious conservatives are now Republican rather than Democrat. And in the South there is a perception the Union were the aggressors even though historical fact says otherwise.
Just so appreciate how your videos have grown, really like the attention to detail, the passion for history and the fairness to the people of the particular era.
I was an extra in both this movie and Gettysburg. You could tell that Gettysburg had Ted Turner's money and this one did not. All those scenes that ended up on the cutting room floor - such a waste. I always felt that they should either have edited even more and made it the Stonewall Jackson Story, or turned it into a mini-series with all the extra footage. That said, I have never been able to bring myself to watch it again since I watched with all the guys in my reenacting unit where we watched the movie in uniform. It was just that bad. Although in fairness, these movies reflect the books they are based on - G&G was just no where near as good as Killer Angles. It was Jeff Shaara's first book and it showed. Like the book the movie tried to cover too much. It was kind of like watching the Longest Day only for the civil war, and without the all star cast, and without the all star screen writers.
Yep... I'm afraid I found the Gods and Generals book rather boring. A shame because the story has tremendous potential. The film by contrast is enjoyable... if you watch it before you learn about all the historical inaccuracies. Both films suffer from the fact that they really feel like TV miniseries, which is what they both should have been. By making them theatrical releases you got the worst of both worlds. The rather thin production values of a TV miniseries and the time constraints of a film. And it really was a waste of all the re-enactors enthusiasm I think that in both films we don't see nearly enough fighting. Having said all of that I do still enjoy them both.
"The Longest Day" is one of my favorite WWII movies of all time. I actually think it was able to show the immense breadth along with critical smaller parts of the day(June 6,1944) and then meld them into the overall picture as to why the Allies ended up being successful.... however with a high cost! I especially loved the scene with the "clickers" when the US paratrooper gets killed after he hears the tell-tale double click(which was suppose to signal friendlies) but due to a German soldier chambering another round in his Mauser(sounded exactly the same). "two clicks...it was two clicks...."
I found the book excellent, but I would agree it should’ve been a mini series. Also, in the book, I felt that it wasn’t all about stonewall Jackson. You got a lot of good stories before the war from the book like general Hancock and armisteads relationship.
Yeah, given the movie, you'd think the Rebs didn't march into Washington because they chose not to. I walked out of the theater in disappointment.
@@randyjohnsen346
Agree. I think they tried to cover too much, so it became a mile wide but an inch deep. The acting...I could Tell they were Acting.
The scene where the two soldiers meet and trade Coffee for Tobacco...GREAT! Always stuck with me.
I really Really wanted to like Gods & Generals....No.
I'm surprised you didn't watch the Director's Cut. It contains Jackson at Antietam.
Wish we had a civil war film about the western theater I really do
Me too. It is so underappreciated. I study the Western Theater myself.
Josey Wales kinda counts, more skirmishes than battles though.
Along the lines of Sherman's Sunday stroll, eh.
Bryce garbs Ride With the Devil, starring Tobey McGuire and Jewel. Watch it. You won’t be disappointed.
@@mjfleming319 ok then thank you very much.
I met the guy who played John Hood once. Actually he was married to a friend of mine. I spent a Thanksgiving with them soon after the film "Gettysburg" was made. I've been a Civil War buff my whole life so it was interesting to talk to this guy about it. He was very nice with that country manner he displays in the film. But he was amused that I knew more about the war and Hood than he did.
These movies should have been a great mini-series.
Absolutely. I love mini-series. So much more can be told.
It kind of is now on directors cut its in 4 parts.
@@MayoFilms83 That's cool, but what I meant was the whole Ted Turner project would have been great as a week long mini-series or today a Netflix series. The entire war. I thought Gettysburg was terrific though you couldn't release today. You know, all the Confederate troops being Nazis and such.
@@sobersportsman Yep. The current generation of Americans isn't nearly as mature or as tolerant as that of the early '90s when Gettysburg was made. The rot that has pervaded our country is painfully obvious today.
@@galoon Translation: "tRump will be reinstated on Memorial Day."
I liked how they used the same actors from Gettysburg even if they didn't get the age right
they made them in different order. Used some actors in different roles. It was ridiculous
They changed Lee from Sheen to Duvall
Ya it’s helps with continuity, so glad they did change the worst casting of the whole of Gettysburg, lee. Thank god
I only wish they were able to use the same actor for Lewis Armistead... :(
@@jakubfabisiak9810 it would have been difficult as Richard Jordan died shortly after Gettysburg was filmed
As someone who worked with Grant's papers, which of his battles/campaigns do you think would make a good movie, or just one that you would most like to see dramatized?
I have to say that the best campaign to be dramatized would have to be the Vicksburg Campaign. I think it has seen the least attention. But a short film on the Battle of Missionary Ridge would be epic.
@@HistoryGoneWilder Yes, I agree. A movie on the Siege of Chattanooga would be fascinating. And I would love to see good portrayals of Grant, Sherman, Thomas, Bragg, and Cleburne in a film, and it would be a great opportunity for those depictions.
My ancestor got through every battle unscathed till Grant took over then he got hit in the overland campaign.
@@HistoryGoneWilder ...yes, and showing the young Arthur MacArthur charging up the slope would be great, and then, the debacle for Grant at Cold Harbor would balance it out.......showing it was not all glory and success for Grant.
Battle of Chattanooga has dramatic potential, beginning with the Union troops under siege, also including Union capture of Lookout Mountain, clouds hide what is happening from the rest of the armies, then clear to show a Union flag at the top of the Mountain has replaced the Confederate one, indicating Union victory; and the spontaneous successful charge of the Army of the Cumberland without orders up the almost impossible Cemetery Ridge, one Union soldier mortally wounded in the attack dying still saying excitedly 'almost at the top! almost at the top!'
And to see Grant and Sherman working together and to consider the position of General Thomas, a Virginian who became one of the Union's best generals.
And the question of whether after losing this battle many Confederates realised they had lost the war.
Your commentary was excellent and as enjoyable as the movie itself. An uncut version of this movie would be priceless.
Thank you so much for your kind words. Please consider subscribing to the channel if you have not done so already and check out my other videos, I think you will enjoy them.
These movies are great. I particularly liked the part that showed the Irish on both sides fighting each other. I am Irish myself and I know that our natives fought on all sides in every war ever fought (so it seems) but very rarely is it ever shown on film.
You're only Irish if you're born and bred on the Isle...if not, you're just someone who happens to have Irish ancestry.
I think thats true of most western nationalities tho. People think of war like boxing matches, one country vs another, with no outside interference, but that's not really accurate. In almost every war, there are usually thousands of volunteers involved, there are alliances and coalitions, lend leases, auxiliaries, mercenaries, etc etc etc. Even in civil wars.
@@pexxos1 I was born and bred on the island.
Yeah, GREAT scene. I just love the Southern Irish saying, "dOnT tHeYs kNoWs We IZ jUsT FiGhtInG fOr iNdEpEnDencE."
“Just as we, would not send any of our soldiers to march in other states”
*Sharpsburg, Gettysburg, and Perryville would like to know your location*
Yeah, Jackson's comment here was in reference to Lincoln calling up troops from Virginia to invade, at the time, the 7 states that already seceded. Lincoln's foolish call to arms led to Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee, and Arkansas to secede as well. Those invasions in the North were attempts to shorten the war. Lee even issued orders that the civilian population wasn't to be harassed(not all soldiers obeyed but it was ordered).
KingofDiamonds85 I know the context of the quote, I just find it funny that they ended up doing it. (To be fair gettysburg occurred after Jackson’s death)
@Gary Daniel Yes, a war started by the South. Lincoln was well within his rights as the US president to call upon troops to put down an armed insurrection. And that's what it was!
@@KingofDiamonds85 Define "civilian". The Army of Northern Virginia captured blacks, and sent them south to slavery.
@@kennethkellogg6556 He won't answer that because he's just another "Lost Causer" racist A-hole!
Randomly came across this. Really great video man. Bravo. I'll be spending the weekend watching whatever else you have.
Thank you so much. I think you will enjoy my videos. Please consider subscribing and please share to get the word out about the channel.
I see a lot of people that cover the civil war and do a very good job . I must say you are one of the best that breaks down and explains things very well. I appreciate your videos and really enjoy watching them ! Thank you.
Thank you so much. That really means a lot to me. I couldn't do what I do without the support people like you give me. Thank you again.
Have History Will Travel Your welcome my friend. Keep it up .
Gods and Generals had so much potential, with quite a few bright spots, but ultimately doesn't work the way Gettysburg did (good lord that family in Fredricksburg was annoying). Stephen Lang nailed his portrayals in both movies, in my humble opinion. It'd be great if an accurate, well done mini series could be made portraying the men and commanders of the Civil War. Of course, in this day and age, an accurate portrayal would never get made.
As it is said, ‘history is written by the victors.”… or these days, by the loudest Molotov thrower..
I'd have loved to watch a show with the two complaining Confederates. Like an 1860's version of the Odd Couple.
Your objectivity is refreshingly 👍.
Thank you so much. I simply provide the facts of the situation and try to add clarity to the movie scenes. Some were very well done. Many times, movies jump right into battles and thats all you know about the men fighting is their military career, but these men were school teachers, farmers, and factory workers.
@@HistoryGoneWilder Hi, I'm personally qualified in history and was moved to comment the same thing. Objectivity in historiography is important, I remember arguing that in an essay early on and getting a rare A back then for it, not because the professor agreed with me, but because of the reasoning behind it, which I won't bore anyone with.
The problem with English and then American historicism is romanticism, which can often militate against objectivity like in the continental European traditions, especially Germany, where the bastion was invented and developed, and where it is treated as a science, and not the bachelor of arts it is in English. Even though it is important for inherently subjective beings to at least strive to be objective, specifically romanticism in the form of nationalism in historiography gives a tendency to at least omit uncomfortable facts, but even lying by omission is a slippery slope.
Given that history is predicated on facts, especially when judging narratives and historians against one another, using that simple criterion (just sticking to the objective facts as found on the record) gives a natural integrity to the narrative and causation that makes it unimpeachable in front of peers, they cannot really disprove it, therefore it stands.
This particular topic has been particularly problematic for me regarding the methodology (in other YT content), so it was nice to see solid methodological process in asserting the facts for a film which I also personally enjoy and have in my collection. They are particularly useful talks, despite us having probably completely different geographical and political inclinations and backgrounds, because I have to accept the integrity of the facts and sourcing to give me a true picture of what was and was not accurate, something I am far more able to do in the 20th Century, where similar decisions are often made (Giving German officers Knights Crosses from WWII in WWI instead of a Blue Max is a particular favourite of mine).
I have a good friend who refers to this film as "The Passion of the Stonewall."
They blocked part 2! That sucks, I was really looking forward to it for the past few weeks.
I'm working on getting it up
After Gettysburg, I was really excited about the movie "Gods and Generals", having read the book. Then I watched it. Now I'm not saying its unwatchable, a bad movie....Well yes that is what I'm saying. Almost 4 hours and didn't cover so much. Acting everyone looked like they were Acting, and often like they had a stick up their butts.
I own both. I don't think either is great, but I prefer Gods and Generals. Gettysburg is way too over-dramatic and Martin Sheen as Lee is a cinematic travesty.
@@shawnn7502
Differences of opinion. Though it should be obvious to all you are Tree Hugging Biden supporter MAGA Hat wearing buffoon....and a poopyhead.
:-)
@@shawnn7502 I own both also. And I prefer Robert Duvall as Lee...he wasn't over the top like Martin Sheen.
@@stevenwiederholt7000well your, like, LITERALLY Hitler!
@@corvusboreus2072
I always pictured me as more like Attila The Hun. :-)
Really cool take and angle! I enjoyed It. Can't believe the inaccuracies, though. Anyway, Hey! What regiment did
your G.G.G granddaddy fight in? And under whose command?
He was in the 25th Virginia Cavalry Co. G. His group was first stationed at Petersburg, while the ANV was at Fredericksburg, then he moved closer to his home in Southwestern Virginia under Humphrey Marshall. During Chickamauga, he was technically under Forrest, but did not see action. He would be a part of Grumble Jones' ride into the Valley for Early's Valley Campaign, but be wounded before his unit would join up with Early.
Thank you for the video!
I appreciate and concur with your analysis of this film. For the most part , it is very good and an enjoyable watch for the student of CW history. The scene with Jackson and Jim Lewis is admittedly dreadful, and should have been portrayed accurately or not at all. I think Robert Duvall's Lee was far too elderly at the beginning when he declines the Union command. Lee was far more vigorous and youthful in 1861 than we see in the film. Duvall's character seemed closer to Lee's condition at the end of the war, where age and health issues began catching up with him.
Huh? That Lost-Cause film is an eyesore for anyone who doesn't want to hear confederate propaganda. Very different film to the better Gettysburg.
The war greatly aged Lee. I agree though. I think it would have been better to portray Lee more youthful at the start, and show the progression of how he aged over the course of it. Interestingly, I would love to see something that portrayed just how the war affected the various generals, both Union and Confederate.
@@KibuFox Given he died only in 1870, and went virtually completely gray from 1860-62, I'd agree with that.
@𝖂hipped 𝕯ream and the third movie would have been way more about the north, if it would ever be made. Doubtful now, to many sensitive people
@@gavinculpepper9685 It was going to be based on the Last Full Measure, and have the same title. It was meant to be about post-Gettysburg onwards.
The book Gods and Generals was a good balanced retelling of the events of the early years of the civil war prior to Gettysburg. Ronald F Maxwell took the source material and whiped his ass with it and produced this turd.
Just saw this channel and I immediately subbed! Great content BTW!
A minor recommendation, if you will: you need a new microphone and probably a good audio editor as well! Apart from that, great video! Can't wait for part 2!!!
Learned a few things! Great critique
Concerning Jim and his letters to and from his family (9:00). Jackson was well known to have taught many slaves to read and write defying VA law at the time. He started a colored Sunday school that had upwards of 100 slaves attending and the best students he awarded bibles. Implying that they could read and he and his wife were teaching them. That school remained up and running for nearly 20 years after he died.
So, it can be assumed at the least that Jim may have known how to read and write based upon his association with Jackson
Just as likely Jim taught himself to read ....
Jeff is exactly right about this. I would suggest the author of this video do some more reading about Jackson, including the Bud Robertson book.
I didn't know that used to same actors for Chamberlain and Tom. that's a nice touch.
Enjoyed your review very much. Bud Robertson!❤️🎶. 🌺
Really do love the content bud, all of it. I would enjoy sippin coffee and tokin a cigar and chatting with you about pre-1880s American history 😉
I agree with you on some of the actor choices in both films,most of the generals on both sides were young men pressed into service,there were examples of citizen/West Point trained generals being under 20yo... loved the Longstreet & Chamberlain portrayals in Gettysburg but hated their choice of Sheen for the part of Lee,Duvall should have been in both films...
I think Sheen did an excellent job of portraying the stress Lee was certainly experiencing under the "man of marble" surface.
I've read that they wanted Duvall for the first film, but he wasn't available. So, they hired Sheen.
Sheen did an amazing job! I like his portrayal of Lee! He did the best job!!
The scene in which Lee takes command of Virginia Forces is misleading the dialogue from Lee is almost verbatim from what was actually said, but he was not in military uniform he had already resigned from the US army he was wearing a black suit. Also if you watch the extended version Antietam is included but it is poorly done.
Does the Directors Cut blu ray include the battle scenes cut from the theatrical release?
Yes, they include some battle scenes that is not in the theatrical cut, but they are very disappointing.
Compared to "Gettysburg", this movie falls short, it seems to cry out for a two part story since it swiftly glides over so much early war history.
Yeah, would have been way better as a miniseries. There's just too much going on.
Yep--you could make a whole movie dealing with just the Peninsula Campaign--which wasn't even mentioned in Gods and Generals.
@@galoon Or a whole movie on the Shenandoah Campaign. You know, the campaign that brought Stonewall Jackson to fame and infamy.
I remember my jaw dropping when we saw this in theaters, when the timeline jumped all the way to Fredericksburg. The Chancellorsville scenes are the only reason I pull the DVD out once in a while.
Antietam was also shot ,but was cut from original movie.It is in the directors cut
@@rpink58 I've heard about additional scenes, but have never watched them. I will have to look them up.
They did Antietam horrible...
I agree. The Antietam scenes were miserably done from what I've saw.
How they could portray millers corn field like that is ridiculous. You are talking about maybe the most horrific battle of the war in terms of sheer carnage and destruction and its portrayed as just a walk through a cornfield
EXCELLENT, EXCELLENT VIDEO!!! I liked how you made observations and backed up them with actual history. I hope you are contacted by many school history teachers to use this and your other videos in their class to teach them facts and not fiction (like they still taught 125 yrs after the civil war). GREAT JOB!!! GOD Bless
Good shit. Keep up the good work.
As a fellow beginning civil war channel excellent video sir
Well you just got 1 more subscriber... about to watch your videos.
Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Please keep chugging away. It takes awhile, but when you get noticed, it will take off.
The take away From gods and Generals, and Gettysburg, is the fact that they gloss over the history of the Civil War. Whereas they depict Certain events. If you look at it I honestly think Jackson was a better military tactician. Whereas the battle of Fredericksburg shows it a terrible waste of human life. Where as general Hancock lost more than 10000 troops at Marie's heights. The same that General Pickett suffered at seminary ridge in Gettysburg. Where as in general Lee's comment That war is so terrible that we would grow so fond of it. War is A terrible Waste of humanity.
The Shenandoah valley campaign was left out and that brings tears to my eyes....
Indeed....
Cause the book wasn't about Jackson and this is where Maxwell failed utterly. He wanted a God's and Generals movie but with Jackson as the main character.
Can't wait to get ALL of these shirts!!! PLEASE keep the advertisement available of your channel.
Thanks for sharing
There's alot to be said for Gods and Generals (both good and bad), but one of the things I really admired about the movie was pretty much almost all the actors from Chamberlain to those militia guys at 3:44 took on the exact same role in Gettysburg as they did in this movie
Same actor, different character. Same for Stephen Lang.
Hi, when I watched this movie, Jackson's command: "Give them the bayonet" strucked me. I am Hungarian and a great fan of the 1848-49 Hungarian - Austrian Civil War, called the Hungarian Freedom War (starting as a civil war, when the Austrian army attacked Hungary, which did not declared its secession from the Habsburgs, but won an autonomy, called the Hungarian revolution of 15 March 1848, accepted initially by the emperor-king, but after 6 months changed his mind, and sent his troops to attack Hungary, the Hungarians declaring their independence only in 14 April 1849 after 8 months after the starting of the confruntations, then all ending with the Russian intervention in behalf of the Austrians). Because of having shortage ammunition, the Hungarians developed this way of fighting in which at the start of the battles they tried to immediately enter in bayonet fight with the enemy, and tried to win the battle with their bayonets.
Hearing Jackson's order, it made me think that he maybe read some works about the Hungarian war, because then many books circulated in English, German, French about the Hungarian Freedom War. Too bad that today there is almost no actual work in English about it.
There is an extended cut in which all of the missing battles were restored, or at least a great many of them.
In the book, Michael Shaara explicitly says that the delivery of the pontoons to Fredericksburg was deliberately delayed in order to prevent Burnside from crossing the river and taking Richmond as he intended, essentially out of professional jealousy. This theme was not mentioned in the movie, but I wonder if you might address it in part two. Is there actually any evidence, do any historians believe that that could have been the actual reason the pontoons were not delivered in a timely manner, or is that something that Shaara just made up for dramatic effect?
Thank you. I will address that in part 2. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.
@@HistoryGoneWilder And thank you for thinking my question was important enough to respond to. I look forward to Part two.
This movie will be remembered in history as the one with the bigger use of prop beards
"Gettysburg" was worse. One of the re-enactors in that one said the standing joke for the actual name of the film was "Gettysbeard."
There are enough inaccuracies in history. We really do not need more.
Thanks for pointing the errors.
I was there for the filming in MD (the Antietam part that was rarely shown but only some in the extra on the dvd). It was the literal grandest site that my grandfather and I had ever seen.
Over 20k re-enactors. So many, it sounded like an auto-rifle going steady. I still have the VHS of the entire Bloody-Lane, A.P. Hills Counter-Attack and the Cornfield Battle that they sent me for registering. And, the dog tag.
The A.P. Hill actor (Yes, from the Gettysburg film) there. Real blacksmiths. Real everything. If you looked past the cameras.. You were actually there.
Behind you, the civilians.
I will never forget those days.
Man,. you were one lucky fella.
A note for your part 2. G&G portrays Mulholland as commanding the Irish Brigade during Fredricksburg. Not true, he was second in command of the most junior regiment, but one of the few officers in the IB to survive the battle. Almost the entire depiction of the IB in G&G is His Story, contained within his regimental for the 116PA.
This movie has alot of flaws. I love that they were still making civil war movies in the 2000s regardless of flaws or what not. I wish they'd finish this trilogy. So we could see Grant introduced to the series.
@crAZy American and put to rest to all the Lost Causers that have made false statements against Grant and Sherman
@@generalfred9426 how would a hollywood film put to rest anything? Its not video evidence of what happened, its the directors interpretation
The south was winning the first two years
@@generalfred9426 What false statements would those be exactly? Sherman targeting civilians? Grant losing half as many men in 30 days as the army did in 3 years? soryy but those are just Historical facts.
@@drewdurbin4968 Amazing everything you said is wrong. Lee most more manpower than Grant throughout the entire war. There only 3,000 civilian casualties over the course of 6 weeks during the march with the majority of those civilians being hostile to the Union Army. These are the historical facts.
Thank you for doing a well balanced video on the film. I had not watched it since I was in college ten years ago or so and recently went back and watched it again. I find that in several cases they do capture the spirit of the circumstance but they obviosuly do not keep to the literal history telling of it.
Also, it is worthy to note that Lee did not start out the war with a beard but grew it after the war had started.
And thank you for pointing out that Lee was not appointed commander of the Confederate army in that scene. That is one of the things that annoys me when people say that Lee left the union army to lead the Confederate army becasue he was not even in the Confederate army until well after first Bull Run. He was relocated there but his initial command was of the state militia of VA not of the Confederate army.
Thank you so much for appreciating my hard work.
@@HistoryGoneWilder Thank you for putting the time into it and promoting a healthy discussion of history. I know how labor intensive it can be to make these videos.
The extended cut does spend a (admittedly little) time on Antietam and is more definitely worth seeing if you havent.
When will we get part 2????
I plan on getting it up tomorrow and at the latest Sunday.
On some level I don’t mind a film being not entirely accurate, not that I like that sort of thing, but I definitely appreciate ones that make me curious.
I think that's really important actually. A historical movie doesn't have to be perfect to get people interested in learning more.
It's literal Confederate propaganda
@@ooonyxxx
Nonsense.
I appreciate your review. Thanks !
Thank you so much for watching and supporting the channel. Please consider subscribing to the channel if you have not done so already.
I am wondering if the video you reference when talking about Jim Lewis and General Jackson was the video by Atun Shei films that called this movie Confederate Propaganda? And if it was, how do you feel about it in that sense?
Atun Shei is a clown. You can't take anything he says seriously.
That is the video I was referring to. I've watched some of his videos, but did not care for his style of delivery. That video in particular, I don't think I would consider it propaganda, but as I said in my video, the scenes involving slavery were very misleading.
That's called propaganda.
My great-great-grandfather enlisted in the 3rd Unattached Company, Massachusetts Volunteer Militia for 90 days in 1864. He was assigned to garrison duty in Forts Lee and Pickering in Salem Harbor. Then there are my collateral relatives (9th cousins, 4x removed) from South Carolina. Seven brothers all joined up with the Confederate army. Six of them in the Army of Northern Virginia, and one at Fort Wagner. Two didn't survive the war. Some were with Maxcy Gregg, some were aides to generals, one was a cavalry commander, one was an artillery commander. They married into the Alexander and Hampton families, and some were involved in post-war, anti-reconstruction politics, and one broke with the Democratic Party to run against Ben Tillman for governor in 1890.
Thank you for some good insights. I too am frustrated - if understanding why - there is no mention of the valley campaign or even 2nd manassass (less said about jackson's performance in the 7 days battles the better perhaps) albeit the directors cut does restore some of the antietam footage.
My biggest disappointment is that the thrird film in the proposed trllogy about the Overland campaign of 1864 was never made and likely never will. For all their flaws they at least are films about the Civil war, a subject matter Holywood has never really taken a shine to
My g grandfather and his brother were both in the 14th S. C Vol
traitors
@@spade2187 you obviously need a lesson in history and not I feel good because my fore fathers were trash in New England or New York. They were South Carolinians that don’t own slaves but joined because Lincoln invaded sovereign South Carolina. Take. History class from an non moronic fool and see.
@@andystuckey2561
Your forefathers fought to defend the institution of slavery as a byproduct of fighting for “state rights”.
It doesn’t matter what the overall objectives were, the byproduct was what it was. Slavery and the denigration of black human beings.
Anyway Nazis didn’t fight in WW2 to do genocide against Jews, Slavs, communists and handicapped people. But that’s who they killed during the war. Shouldn’t Germans say “what my grandfather didn’t work at the camp, he was in the front line fighting against Americans, Brits and Russians. What about my Nazi heritage?”
Just so you don’t think I’m so biased shill. My ancestors were members of the Ottomans. For like 600 years they served in that empire until the 1920s. In that time, the ottomans committed a genocide, I’m not walking around with an Ottoman flag in an Armenian community stating “my heritage isn’t about hate”. It would sound absolutely dumb.
You can be proud of being whatever you are without bringing up the lowest form of vermin as a source of pride.
Most Turks, Germans and Japanese people rarely discuss how awesome they fought on the wrong side of history
Get a grip.
@@muaddib989 Try as you might so fanatically, fighting to defend your home and family is not fighting for an institution. The South was not fighting for slavery any more than the North was fighting to get rid of it. The amount of facts that refute your claim could circle the moon and back, but the fact that the South refused any and all compromise to rejoin even with the promise they could keep their slaves disproves your claim utterly. The was was conquest, pure and simple. Because the North refused to let the South use her unalienable right to leave a relationship with an abusive part of the country. To deny that is the same as claiming that a man can beat his wife half to death, kill her sons when they run to her defense, and then rape her afterwards.
There is simply no getting around this, and the whole modern Slavery angle is a blatant rewrite. Both sides agreed about what it was about, and Slavery was not it. To support the Union is like supporting the Nazi occupiers.
I never noticed before, that same actor playing a new recruit on the march was the guy who Tom Chamberlain interviews in Gettysburg (the "We're fighting for our 'rats" confederate soldier).
Around 6:20 you credit the verbatum lines by Jackson - but do not mention him having his left arm raised - I liked that touch in the movie
Instead of the bs / false conversations Jackson and a slave, they could have had a montage of some of the REAL battles that were skipped in the film.
Not a perfect movie but it did have its moments. The depiction of the Battle of Fredericksburg was well done.
Thanks for video - I still haven’t seen Gods and Generals but I am a big fan of the Gettysburg Movie
your documentarys are very enjoyable for civil war buffs. your analysis of gods and general shows attention to the details that would make you a great movie cinematographer. having watched the movie - i have the dvd i plan to go back an view again. i like your critique of general jackson and the little girl one thing that puzzels me since i first watched this movie -- gen jackson was a righteous man of god and yet his occupation was killing fellow humans that to me suggests he has some hidden secret blood lust or other condition - i cant say i am not a trained psycologist
I'd like to see some films/miniseries about the Western Theater.
The Blue and the Gray covers Vicksburg.
@@Bernie8330
Got that one. Thanks.
Regardless of what one feels about these two films. One thing is indisputable.. Jeff Daniels is incredible as Chamberlain.. So amazing at delivering his lines.
Jeff Daniels has to be one of the greatest actor ever. Both Chamberlain performances were wonderful.
@@HistoryGoneWilder Right... I mean when he recites Shakespeare as they are about to cross the river.. Amazing stuff... You really feel his energy..
@@anumeon yes you do. It is bone chilling.
@@HistoryGoneWilder Hey, what the hell is going on?? I have had at least 2 replies taken off and I HAVE NOT SAID ANYTHING that is racist or presented black people in a bad light or anything like that. In fact it is exactly the opposite!! So why can some people literally JUSTIFY SLAVERY and RACISM and there comments are just fine?? What the HELL is going on?? What did I say in my last response to Mr. Kractovli that warranted being taken down??
@@USGrant-rr2by I have not removed any responses. The only people I remove are neo nazis. It was not me.
Whats your thoughts about Jackson's Sunday school class?
There's a video about it here ua-cam.com/video/GiYTjMGd6iQ/v-deo.html
9:46 Anybody else notice that this scene was flipped? Everyone has their swords on the right side rather than the left.
Love this movie, and Gettysburg, they never made the third one, The Last Full Measure. Gods & Generals didn't make any money. It does lean toward the Southern Cause, a movie you can watch time after time, again and again. Yes, the Big Joe stuff is a lot of crap.
Lean? My friend, it's full-on Lost Cause stuff. That's what people hated about it.
@ OK, I admit the flick is dripping with Corn Pone, and agree the Big Jim stuff is laughable. But I do believe that Stephen Lang did a good job of portraying StoneWall, as did most of the cast. (PRESS ON BOYS- PRESS ON)!
@Live Life True, sad to say but True.
Thank you for an objective historical commentary on the film. Many on UA-cam trash the film without the true historical context.
That's what I strive to do. Thank you so much for recognizing that.
Of course, another balanced examination of history. You sir, are a Great American!
i noticed in the first picture at the beginning grant has 4 stars. wasnt he a three star general? i might be wrong.
The battles were pretty neat and has the same actors from Gettysburg
Unfortunately, Martin Sheen was unable to portray Robert E Lee. Otherwise, I believe you are correct regarding the actors.
Except they used the same guy to play stonewall who played Pickett in Gettysburg that always threw me off
@@HyperK7 I like robert Duvall as Lee more than martain sheen
@@sqike001ton Duvall's Dad was from Virginia, so he'd probably have a better feel for it than Sheen (even though Sheen is a great actor, too)
They should have focus on one battle and one battle only .
Yes totally agreee.
Yeah but you have 2 years of fighting so why not show more than one battle? First Manassas wasn't even in the book of God's and Generals. It was added in by Maxwel him self.
Can you explain the odd statement in this film by General Maxey Gregg that he had some type of problem with Jackson? Maxey is in this scene I think wearing the tri-foil hat behind Hood and Jackson. I asked Professor James Robertson that very same question and he told me to go read his book about Jackson. That was his standard answer to just about everything.
IIRC, Gregg had the same kind of problems with Jackson that A.P. Hill, R.S. Garnett, and for a time, Charles S. Winder had with Jackson. Old Jack wasn't exactly an easy man to work with.
Anyone interested in a look into the citizen soldiers. 4 Years in the Stonewall Brigade is a good look into that, like when marching though the Shenandoah. The soldiers from there will leave the column go home, have a meal, then find out where the army marched to and try to catch up. To a modern soldier a lot of what they did seems really odd.
About Jim, I read that Jacksons officers would keep an eye on Jim because Jackson was so secretive about when they marched and where. When they saw Jim getting ready to move it was time to get things moving before the orders came
This movie infuriated me for two reasons. 1. It portrays the slaves in a light of paid servitude. As you said it is glossed over despite being front and center. In Gettysburg it is only shown in the instance of a run away slave who is briefly talked to by Chamberlain. In this film there were more opportunities to show the true evil of slavery, but it didn’t. The reason it is called confederate propaganda. 2. As you said they skip an entire year of the war. I went into this movie expecting to see Antietam. I feel if they would have, and they could have cut 30 minutes of useless dialogue it could have been shown. Seriously, do we need a two and a half minute Bonny Blue Flag performance? No.
The battle of Antietam was shot , it was cut from the original move , its in the directors cut.
I couldn't have said it better myself Modern Day Wyatt Earp. I watched the Antietam battle scenes, but the movie jumped so much, it had not lead up and fell flat.
This movie is the oddity of my life... I honestly borderline despise it, yet I can watch it anytime.... The cinematography is beautiful, by far it’s best feature. As for how it functions as a movie it is one of the worst I have ever seen. Being a life long student of the civil war makes this even worse and thank you for pointing out all that is missed, but one way they could have massively saved time is not showing all the needless banter scenes especially those from the confederate point of view that add nothing to the plot. They don’t even really develop the characters. Mostly it’s a lot of hot air, and while the “lost cause” argument can certainly be made it just lacks anything.... Also the battle scenes while well shot, are bloodless pillow fights. The most horrific scene is a Union private in the 20th Maine that has his arm removed asking permission to leave the battlefield at Fredericksburg... Now Gettysburg is very similar to this but how it’s cut plus the amazing score cover this better.... All though I understand Stephen Lang playing Jackson it’s kind of cheap because of his wonderful performance as George Pickett in Gettysburg... Yet as I say all this I can watch this movie start to finish anytime... It’s almost like there is a better movie within this than what is presented, and I’m still trying to find that... (That is insanity by definition).... A miniseries would have been much better and with media as it is more likely if this was suggested in today’s media market.
Blake Lester I’ve heard most people describe it as dry and boring. I’m a history nerd so it’s not boring for me. I can see it being dry and boring to the common lay person. Another movie I really like that I also hear called dry and boring is Master and Commander.
History can be dry and boring but at the same time help us to learn where we came from and how we got to the point we are now. When you dig deep into those men who led troops on both sides to see their thoughts and get an idea as to where they stood is absolutely incredible. So much on all of them very rarely gets talked about. It would cause people today to stop and rethink what they have been taught over the years.
Fully agree. There is something pompous and professorial about the dialog in this movie that wastes the talents of otherwise fine actors. Never the less I bought the DVD and have watched it several times, usually after re-reading Foote's trilogy.
Duvall was great as Lee, better than Sheen, but it was just too jarring seeing Lang as Jackson after his great turn as Pickett. And the time span between the two movies was too great. All of the actors looked significantly older than they were in Gettysburg despite the fact that the events portrayed happened within months of one another.
@@117rebel Master And Commander is Such a Masterful film just epic!
Thank you so much for your reply. I am ABSOLUTELY positive your G.G.G. Granddaddy is shining up there in heaven for what you're doing. Please keep up the Great work! I really enjoy your most awesome and informative videos!
You know you could watch the released 4hr cut of you’re that upset parts are being cut right?
Where's Atun-Shei at?
So I wonder if the last story in the trilogy will ever be made into a film? "The Last Full Measure". Enjoyed the book.
Never. Sadly, this movie did so bad that they won't put the resources in making the last installment. And especially in these times, anything Civil War probably wouldn't go over well.
It be made by somebody else all these actors and even Ron Maxwell are getting to old now.
@@MayoFilms83 yeah the actors are all way to old. A bunch of them are even dead. The guy that played Buster and General Kemper are both dead. Not sure about some of the others like the actor that played General Hood he has to be up there in age.
Highly doubt it. This neo confederate happy clap fest absolutely tanked at the cinema and I think maxwell and Ted turner had a falling out because of it
Could you please publish some references?
Watch the extended cut
Lee was inept. Stonewall did not understand nighttime recon and passwords. Got shot and killed by his own men. Thank you 18th N. Carolina Regiment.
Lee was inept? That statement might want some backing up.
The first 3 words you said alone are reason enough to not take you seriously.
Nicely done. Balanced and not " damn those yankees/ rebels"
I’m convinced, that I must be the only man alive to appreciate, hold dead and cherish this movie. I also regard it as highly accurate with many character depictions, even if some are askew.
Same, I guess most people would rather a 5 second tiktok rather than listen to southern people talk but I loved every moment of this movie.
If I remember correctly, it was Longstreet who was the hero at 2nd Manassas. Jackson at 1st Manassas
Once again another excellent Video done fairly unlike another channel I know, I would say the director's cut Blu-Ray is probly the best version of this movie. I would recommend it if you haven't seen it. I do agree that they gloss over slavery very much so, But I do not believe that it is a lost cause movie. The fact that a lot of details are minute and put into this movie I think does a very good job Its own right but is a movie nonetheless. I always recommend this movie but take it with a pinch of salt but a movie That I'm able to watch. Keep up the good work
Thank you so much. I really appreciate the support.
I agree,the war should be told exactly as it was.Most people today have no idea why they protest somthing they know nothing about.
Have you watched Midway or Pearl Harbor? No movie is told as it was!
@@michaelmorgan9824 How well I know.Dad got a Navy Cross and a Silver Star at each battle and lost his Battleship in one and his carrier in the other.I used the word "Should" and know it rarely works that way.I started Civil War reenacting in the 1978.
I really like your story and comment..well done
Thank you so much!
Great video...!
Thank you so much. Please consider subscribing to the channel if you have not done so already.
I know many of the extras in this film so I watched it, that being said this was the absolute worst movie of any kind I have ever watched in my life and I am 74 years old.
You've lived a charmed life.
@Gary Daniel boring as hell Ron Maxwell doesn't know how to make anything interesting
I liked it
I loved Gettysburg but haven't bothered to watch this one. I do want to check out the book.
That's a rather harsh criticism by you Ray...
I liked the film Gettysburg so I watched Gods and Generals while it was in the theaters. It was bad in the way the movie The Last Airbender was bad, but it was also bad in the way Triumph of the Will was bad. It must take real talent to create something that's comically stupid and morally repulsive simultaneously.
that may be the most brutal 3-sentence movie review I've ever read. Well done.
I saw this movie with our history class it was pretty inline with the events of the civil war for me minding missteps in fact I told my teacher about the film would be theater in time to watch it at the end of our course.
*Thank you!*