How does a mechanic generate randomness in a game?
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- Опубліковано 9 лют 2025
- Some thoughts on the need to observe the practical uses of games before implementing new mechanics, and on the need not to stick to mathematical models for gunplay given the impossibility to quantify many of the parameters. Applied to the example of Battlefield 1.
The commentary of this video only focuses on the gunplay example. For the full document : drive.google.c...
Also, if you wanna read a master thesis on the interaction between Battlefield architecture and competitive dispositions: drive.google.c... (french)
Finally, a very old and cringy video in which I was giving numerous video-examples of what I explain more theoretically in the present one : • Why are new games wors...
I recorded most of the clips when I found time last weeks. Fortunately, BF1 is one of these games that are so forgiving you don't see a difference in level after not playing for an insane amount of time :d.
Sensivity : 400 dpi / 20% (it's the default sensivity in the game, didn't change it)
Ps : Yes MarbleDuck uploaded a video on a topic close to this one at the very moment I tweeted this document. Not planned, we just happened to consider the same topic as relevant at the same time.
INFO
Twitter : / mayberela
Battlefield settings (updated 22/01/2016): pastebin.com/7U... with 400 dpi
BF4 account (I often change my name though) : battlelog.battl...
Twitch : / relaaa
Professor Relaaa with his new lecture in a Insitute of Competative Play.
Big Strawberry what is your point?
Well if you want me to use SLRs my friend, I just checked and it seems I have the highest kpm in the world with the m1907 factory. But I'm not gonna make my public gaming sessions a reloading party with the 8.35. imgur.com/a/mtJMg
dont have to be 8.35, sebs1906 but rigoti, mondragon, RSC can. 10 bullets isnt enough?
Big Strawberry what does that have to do with 'competitive'. 30.000 kills with the AEK is deemed competitive. You could argue though that the 8.35 is more skillful to use and more enjoyable to watch
more medic weapons are enjoyable to watch not only 8.35. I mentioned earlier
Not a video in a year and suddenly there it is. I dont even know what to say right now except its awesome!
I felt so great to watch you playing again, love it your subject too, great work :)
Absolutely the Best explanation too describe BF gameplay well done Relaaa seriously. You could write a book on how well a player can overcome Gameplay. Good stuff coming from a competitive BF4 player YOU got Skillz bro. Keep it up!!!
Relaaa you fucking genius, this insight is awesome. Devs need to watch this
14:41 LMAAAAO I'M DYING!!
btw, it's great to see u again. (:
Dice needs to see this
They should have seen videos from BF3 on. But they never have and never will listen to the right people. As long as they see xfactor, matimio and levelcap happy they will produce their top shit content avalible for 60€ - premium.
Amperu x factor, mattimio and levelcap are all pissed by the state of bf1
Amperu xfactor and matimio are really unhappy about bf1 gunplay and mechanic. Matimio quit bf1 and xfactor barely plays it.
Amperu you should have said as long as they see Dannyonpc and westie.
i think about this issues a lot. ive been playing quake for many years, and what i love the most about the game is the degree to which it pushes human limits, without breaking them. its a game that when using hitscan weapons, the speed of the opponent's dodge, the leaning animation , how fast your reticle respondes to your strafe movements, make the aiming exercise something very hard, but controlled enough to the point that silly mechanics aren't rewarded. its a game that you can feel when you are in the zone to an amazing degree . i really like watching you play bf , but i really think you would expand your perspective about aiming even more with some proper quakelive training. in bf4 the difficulty of the aim feels great at allowing what you do like a master, aim well enough to kill the current target at the fastest speed the game allows you to , while having a configuration and mental focus that allows you to change targets as fast as you can. its a real joy to watch! i would like you to feel how that balance is different in quakelive, if you have any configuration or focus predisposition to change targets fast, you wont do as much damage as you can, and if your opponent is using all the tolls he can, he will win. its forces all your mechanical and mental skills, into focusing on that tracking or single shot exercise to its limit, and i think thats something no other game can do well. i believed overwatch could do it with classes like the widowmaker. i saw it , i was amazed by how hard it looked. sadly blizzard lacks exactly what you are talking about, a nuanced perspective on what actual skilled gameplay and randomness inducing mechanics are. so the game goes beyond human natural possibilities and instead of forcing you aim in a conscious and fast but controlled way, gives you better results for purely muscle memory based exercises that revolve around snapping your crosshair to the target with full confidence but low control or finesse. it has to do with the dodging in the game, which makes targets heads move in a way , that in opposition to quake, don't force anyone into learning what dodge is and force the shooter to make a lot of guess work. in quake , to dodge, you have to have some tango in your soul. its like football , you have to trick your opponent into thinking your movement is going to be one, and do what they do not expect. in ow the best dodge is a slightly irregular AD spam. i really think your analytical mind would have a great time exploring the nuances of these aspects you talk about in the video in a game like quake ;d
That´s true, it´s a mechanic well known in bf1, but the way you finally find it is also skill. That´s the difference beetween a good player ( only aim ) than superior.
Such an educated video and person. Genuinely liked this, cheers mate 10/10.
U have all reason. Rela u are awsome the best
what the fuck bro :o I've been watching your old videos and this happened :o please upload frequently
大佬回归了！
So basically dice has no idea how to balance weapons and wont have any idea how comp players think. But they want to publish a comp mode. Interesting stuff. Most of problems go back to what you said in an old video about how developers dont know what made their game good or bad. Hopefully they dont fuck bf1 comp mode and whatever bf will come in 2018 up. I cant handle another bad game.
HeXe yeah, hope they don't... BF1 was never a good competitive platform to start with, I feel that the dexterity and movement in BF1 is slower than the one in BF4, can't jump like in BF4, not only that, but all the guns are cheap, I think DICE should make another bf4 per say, most of my friends and I barely play BF1, and some don't even play it... the medic is overpowered, the assault has cheap gadgets, the support is heavily underpowered and the scout, because of the sweet spot system, are heavily overpowered
HeXe ha little did they know
@@theddh hahaha little did they know
Thanks for letting me know how the smoke works i get screwed by it so much
'shaking the mouse is a skillful way of minimizing randomness, thus it increases the skill ceiling' -marbleduck
It undoubtedly is, since players always develop behaviors to reduce randomness, but what matters is that the absence of smoke would allow way more skill based behaviors, AKA tracking or aiming at someone's body/head ^^^^^^
I hope that DICE listens to you when they work on whatever they plan in their competitve plans.
I thought I saw the best players already like xfactor, level cap, stodeh... until now... based on your gameplay... u the best in battlefield so far... my opinion...
another part of the conversation is decision-making to be more competitive in battlefield 1.. pre-decision and bullet dodging has less variation in bf4
How do you fire to reduce spread? Is it just tapping rapidly or? I have no problem controlling recoil and staying on target, so temptation is to just hold down trigger but end up not landing a shot on target despite accuracy
Holy shit you're good. Your twitch aim is mental.
Superbe accent, j'ai tout compris !
Relaa is back!!!
I love Relaaa !
It is rumored that Dice has hired Relaaa
husssein that would be good xD
He was at Gamescom today playing in Stodeh's squad... They gotta be stupid if they didn't hire him.
then ill donate 1 mil to relaa to make a better game xD hahahaha
They actually did lmao
Have you got a source for that? What is he working on?
Please, continue the excelent work. The competitive community needs people like you.
I really hope that Dice watch this video. BF1 is trash, unfortunately. I dont know what the developers are doing tbh...
pls upload your game play and pls stream on twitch.so happy to see your skill and hear your voice.ty
we've missed ya!
Relaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
KS IMK
Relaa uploaded a video finally *-*
Very interesting video!!!
Relaaa send this video and document for DICE please, they need to read this.
1- Welcome back
2- The abstraction of the idea made it more and unnecessarily complex.
3- The thing i hated most about BF is spread especially that it increases on automatic fire and that it increases even when on aimed down sights.
4- I suggest that you try Rainbow Six Siege, it has no such thing as ads spread, and its one shot headshot kill, that makes players right now to try to go for the head. It also has selective wall destruction.
I follow the scene, but I have no time for another game sadly
pourquoi ta laché overwatch aufait?, scène esport trop morte? amour de bf? , j'arrive pas a comprendre comment un mec qui a autant d'amour et de reflexion autour des fps compétitifs joue toujours a bf ^^
@Relaaa, about the difference between guns. Don't you think that every class is for a type of gameplay? Adaptation. If you play Assault you will be able to rush more over enemies, Medic you will need to be more strategical, etc. Don't you think this is good or is it destroying the game?
Oblivivm Dice could do that by adding recoil to the guns so that you could use it only in specific ranges, but unfortunately they did it by adding more spread with less recoil.
Yeah, the bullet spread looks ridiculous in some guns, specially the Hellriegel and M1907. Bullets seem to suffer some kind of deviation for long ranges.
18 minutes of Relaaa clips *Heavy Breathing*
Hi Relaaa, would you allow me to share the master thesis on a fb group ? We are a group of french gamers, and I think this master thesis will interest a lot of them (as they work in the same field).
I started to read it but I am not sure to understand all that is being discussed, and I wanted to talk with them about it, in order to have another opinion and may be explanations of what I won't understand.
Thanks in advance.
Relaaa, we really miss your gameplay, it doesn't have to be competitive necessarily, you can just upload whatever.
finally you're back
Why Gewehr98 can be used in medic?please tell me.10:16
custom game mode called standard issue rifles I would guess.
It isn't that they are unbalancable because of their statistics. DICE simply doesn't do so adequately. think about balancing hipfire movement and spread vs max movement speed by looking at best possible strafing to dodge based up on human reaction time. one can quantify the advantage one gets from a higher max movement speed. balance spread around that.
Thanks for Uploading just something ! , and by the way, you haven't played the 1v1 that u promised yet ^^
Ok I didn't understand anything (bad English)... can someone explain me what Relaa said because seems like he telling a very interesting argument.
Why dont you play Bf4 anymore? wanna see you there.... the semicompeditive scene is still up ;)
Beauyiful gameplay comm what sensitivity do you use
hey man, big fan from brazil here! nice videos, what is your polling rate hz?
i disagree with this: 'people did not use spread control with the AEK because it was too mechanically demanding.'
It was easy. The problem was that the REWARD for using spread control was ambiguous at best, so the RISK of doing something slightly more mechanically demanding than spraying was not worth it.
Yes that's a better wording of what I was trying to say by "too mechanically demanding".
So, "too mechanically demanding" to be worthwhile; as opposed to, "too mechanically demanding" to execute.
oh yea relaaaa mode video bf!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i guess ill sub to you. at least you seem more reliable than neo ninja. neo ninja is just too sus imo.
Do you use ads field of view on or off in Video settings?
An upload????? Holy shit what is life?
RELAAA'S NOT DEAD :DDDDDDD
GOD IS BAAACK
I ve said the same to the rus community after beta
but casual players more than tryharders and EA will do we same projects to make more money
sry, competitive in bf is dead
Hey relaaa may I ask you what mouse you would recommend for BF1 ?
What mouse do you use? Nice video by the way.
I just hate when people for no reason have a far superior internet consistantly. Enemies in group would not react or if one of reacted is too late. Enemies move so slowely. No recoil(yes bad net creates recoil in BF games) just a clean mouse movement. I just hate the unfairness of fps online games. 5:24
It's not about the connexion, that's just a lack of game sense. Most of people don't react even if they get the best ping from the server just because they're not used to.
I'm not saying that it's what happen on your timecode, but more what happens in general on battlefield game series.
Je pourrais savoir quel souris t'utilises stp ?
Merci ! :)
Though I hold you in high regard as a gamer, this statement, " the impossibility to quantify many of the parameters." makes me question your logic before we even start....but I will watch the video, and read the whole document, and translate the French document, and I'll see......... This may take a few hours ;)
9:22 Hmm perhaps we see this the same way. It is not that it is "impossible" to quantify these parameters, it is that the devs have failed to do so.
Ahh interesting, I see where you are going with this. In their failure to quantify these parameters and subsequent failure to implement appropriate mechanics to 'invite' gameplay which matches their vision for the nature of the game, they end up with a result which is neither their vision, nor the vision of the players.
I agree completely with this, and I hope game developers are paying attention to your analysis. If they are, it will be interesting to see what future paths they take - will they make a greater and more successful and iterative corrective approach to modify their mechanics in order to force their vision of the game (read: learn from mistakes and fix them), or will they instead accept the vision of the players, the players' interpretation of the game mechanics, and allow future iterations of the mechanics to be more reflective of that interpretation.
As an artist, I find myself in reflection of how I would feel and behave, if a person had misinterpreted my work. Perhaps I write a sad song and I see somebody dancing to it with joy. Would I feel inclined to inform them of the meaning of the song and why it is sad? Would I feel inclined to re-write the song to make the sadness more clear? Or perhaps, I will be glad that they are enjoying it in their own way, and leave it be, or even re-write the song to bring the listener further joy.... This really comes down to a matter of my intention for the artwork. Is it important to me, to convey an intended message? Or is it more important to me, that the listener enjoy it as they see fit (as 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder')?
This is where we reach what is perhaps a sad conclusion for gaming, because it is an unavoidable fact that development of such complex computer programs is extremely costly. The true intention of the 'artist' (in this case the game development studio) is to generate profit, and their actions will reflect this. In the end, the devs will produce whatever game moves the most units. Such is the nature of capitalism.
This moves the onus of defining the nature of the games, directly onto us, the player base. We must vote with our wallets, as to what we want the game to become, and it will be so. While players are easily drawn by game trailers and other such marketing ploys, into pre-ordering, purchasing 'premium' and even just to buy a base game of which they do not entirely approve, they will almost certainly be supplied with more of what they have demanded in the past with their hard earned cash and continued custom.
Reading the comments I feel like I'm nearly the only one who took this video and document seriously :\
Yes
Damn I miss your gameplay!
YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHNEWVIDEO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is so sad to see how this franchise was dying with every new release. And now with BF1 it reached the peak.
RIP Battlefield i will never forget the best moments from BF2 and BC2.
Amperu Not sure about it dying completely. BF4 was very popular and a great addition to the series, but BF1 isn't and THAT game is definitely declining. Hopefully Dice goes back to a more competitive shooters instead of a copy & paste Battlefront formula
Instead of a copy & paste COD formula not BF. Hopefully that the next tittle is an improved version of BF2 or BF3 at least.
16:50 .... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
F#*? NOT AGAIN ...
wow
nice aim :) Like very much.
what's ur resolution and "FOV"?
Resolution?
He needs to play rainbow six: seige. Imagine him using Jäger and just spawnpeek ace each round lmao
Watch beaulo . Insane aim on r6, also noted who commented on this vid has insane aim too
I lost myself, lol, do u stream?
Mec tu vas reprendre ow ta large le potentielle pour devenir pro ? :D
Relaa they won't mute you, your voice is hot. However they will call hacks
0:01 -- Hi.
relaaa最棒!!!!!
ilysm
this game is too much for fun, the developers dont even care about these mechanics because the 99 per cent of the players are not going to notice that (headshot flinch for example)
they are just going to play the game like any casual player. sorry about the bad english
What mice you use these days?
10:15 You are using a sniper with the medic class WTF!!!!
18 minutes of video, I'm sleeping?
4L ReLA😍
If that's not aimbot in the beginning then I don't know what is. You completely aim on-point (without stopping with shooting) to guys that aren't even on your screen at the exact same point on their bodies every time.
We will se with BF5
멋져요
Finally a video of you relaaa fuck
Do more and more vídeos, please
Just hate when people complicate simple things, its like those guys that speak about football like if was a science.
Relaaa!!!!
Hi Relaaa senpai!
Hi Im iraqi fellow ♥️ 🇮🇶🇮🇶
ALAMEEN SHOOTER غالي وغالي
Ali Tamem & ViCeX-Shadow Gaming لبسك لبست الجلب
relaaa will u go back to bf4
i dont think he will
nhozdien ;-; my life is now over
u comeback :000
"usiully shekin demaus other than girexion" wtf is this language at 1:00
Come Back
Owww Nice relaaa
its jasson born XD #Relaa_Back_?
ﾌｳｳｳｳ！！
ふじわらの ふゥゥゥゥ！！
Must been hard to record this gameplay and to endure this abomination of a game. I just hope they kick some idiots at dice and give us better game next time.
JAJAJAJAJAJAJA
Okay, rela, est devenu théoricien du game. Go Overwatch
やっと動画だしたか、、、
T'es français non ?
record a video of overwatch plssss
Yeah relaa
EA simply makes bf random more and more they dont want to have players like u who buy the game 1 time and kill all servers and make alot of ppl mad to make them quit. They want to give every Players a successful experience (even handicaped ppl with no hands) so they can sell the game much more. The case is that Aiming become so casual that it will make it clearly impossible to dominate the whole server like in past bf series. they will not listen about the few percentage of pro players to give more skillgap trust me its all about money ....its EA!
BlUnt_EmInenT and this is fine