How to Learn Music (Epistemology and Music in the Digital Age) [ AN's Bass Lessons #19 ]
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- Опубліковано 7 сер 2024
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How do we learn music? And how has the internet affected the basic way knowledge is accumulated among aspiring musicians?
Lets find out!!
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Peace,
Adam
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i like this guy's way of thinking.
no stone left unturned. no simplistic, cliche assertion without addressing the background
gwho FACTS FACTS FACTS FACTS FACTS FACTS FACTS
“No stone left unturned”
*presents a three word epistemological framework as if axiomatically true*
Screw "Do I like it?"
I shall ask, "IS IT FUNKY?🐮"
Is the groove sick?
I am a jungle man
I know Kung-fu
does it djent?
Dude, you're the Vsauce of music.
agree
Bsauce! Bass sauce!
Tony James Gilpin Bassauce
Exactly!
This is old but I think you meant Vsus
I love how applicable your channel is to just about every single musician out there. Even though this is bass lessons, It's so much more than just bass.
this lesson convinced me to get a teacher. and so far its been awesome. thanks Adam.
Actually I learnt about playing a third below a triad to reharmonise a chord into a 7th from this channel.
+Jonathan Keeler My point was that you can get all sorts of fascinating tidbits from my channel or the internet at large, but until you've spent time applying those tidbits, it doesn't actually count as knowledge. How often have you actually applied that, or practiced applying the idea of playing a third below?
I'm probably the outlier then. I try it in the big band that I play in when we're repeating say an 8 bar section and opening it up for solos.
+Jonathan Keeler That's awesome that you're applying it! To me, that's the actual "learning" portion of the equation.
If you remember from that video, however, I mentioned that once you pick up this tip it will be tempting to use it everywhere, and in the name of musical taste and judgement, restraint may be called for. The more that you try out this idea, the more you will learn when NOT to use it as well as when to use it. The subtle distinctions drawing you to apply the technique and not apply the technique are what I would consider true musical knowledge, not just a surface level understanding of what the technique is.
from what vid?
amen for those who just sweep pick in every single solo, damn
This video sums up why I'm now a patreon sponsor of your videos. You have a great method of correlating the information and suggesting a method of practice to create working knowledge. Thanks so much.
Thank you so much for your pledge! Glad you enjoyed it.
That was amazing not only talking about music but generally how internet affects the way of learning. I am so glad that i watched it and i ll rewatch it again . Adam i see and appreciate all the effort and dedication you put on learning music(you are too young to have all that musical knowledge). Internet needs more people like you. You own a fucking great youtube chanel and keep up the good work!! BASS!!
Philosophy and Music in one lesson. You sir are brilliant! keep it coming!
Fantastic stuff man. I'm a philosophy student and an amateur guitarist with no form of music education and your videos are really inspiring me to look at music in different ways.
That intro is possibly the best thing ever. Since ever... Forever.
Very well said. It's weird how I thought the same thing about music just this morning in the shower - if I'm writing music, it should be a music that I like. After playing guitar for over 12 years (14 with breaks) I finally decided to take lessons, too, instead of just trying to figure everything out from the internet. The web indeed gives information, but it won't explain any answers to your questions on various topics like a teacher will.
I've learned and improved more since discovering youtube guitar lessons than in 15 years before it.
One thing I think you failed to stress sufficiently: don't just practice, practice in context. Sitting there running up and down major scale shapes day in and day out will only get one so far. Get a looper pedal, drum machine, computer/DAW, whatever...play and practice in context!!
Very true, however it also depends on the Instrument you're playing and the level of playing. Ten years of unorganized drum practice (mostly grooves, solos and improv) have brought me to a certain point where I had to deconstruct and get into the fine details. Otherwise your brain has too much to work on at the same time.
I think of it like repairing a robot, you have to take it apart and improve the individual parts, once that works you can assemble it step by step (applying the practiced in context).
Ton The instrument does matter, indeed.
Sounds like you got to a typical plateau...that happens regardless of instrument.
I know, in regards to bass/guitar, most people just learn songs and licks. (Unorganized, as you put it.) Then they learn some theory and everything comes together. THAT is what you practice in context.
Now, how this applies to drums, I'm not real sure as I'm not a drummer, but the same "learn theory, practise in context" steps should still apply.
I'm truly saddened by the video and comments section because nobody has mentioned the most important learning experience there is, which is playing with other people. Please check out Victor Wooten's TED talks, but above all GET OUT OF YOUR BEDROOMS AND JAM, just make some noise together to the best of your ability.
If you keep doing it with the same group of people for a couple of years, no covers, nothing preconceived, just LISTENING TO EACH OTHER - that one totally deserves caps - you need to develop a sense where everyone hears themselves but also everyone else at the same time.
Doesn't matter what kind of music comes out. keep doing it and extraordinary things start to happen. WHILE all that is going on, exchange what you know about theory and learn all you want. The quality of your learning will be enhanced because you have constant opportunity to use what you learn, and the quality of the music will rise - bingo, virtuous circle.
Also, don't ANYONE try to lead. This is not to say don't take solos: people absolutely should if they want to* and not if they don't: what I mean is, listen until you hear what to play. Someone has to start, but, well, if you record your jams you'll definitely hear when you've butted in and spoilt something nice.
Don't try to take control of the music. If you listen ahead, and EVERYONE else is, and you feel a change coming up, chances are everyone will change together. Crash and burn the first time, but...
Playing actual tunes is a skill too. Each informs the other. Anyway, believe it or not. Whatever, kids.
* and the band should accompany in a cool way, in fact many cool ways if they can.
Still, the person who is sitting there running scales like a machine will still be better than me if I don't practice at all.
People don't like hard work and are easily distracted. People rationalise the easy path so they don't feel bad being lazy- how many times have you heard someone point out that Paul McCartney couldn't read music? And hence the modern technological world has created a culture where people waste all their time on ultimately trivial entertainment.
Imagine if no one had tv, internet, phones, games, etc, but everyone had an instrument. Within a generation there would be a surge of amazing musicians!
Great video (and channel) by the way.
I know he could write it by '71 or '72. Does that mean he could read it by then too?
without "ultimately trivial entertainment" life is extremely boring, that only Squidward could enjoy. Sex, food, watching cats, walking, hanging with friends or practice? Why not both?)
@@bxp_bass It's not really boring at all. You think it'll be boring because you're currently addicted to the little dopamine bursts you get when you engage in those temporary pleasures.
Yes, man, no difference between me and one who like to avoid pleasures, except one thing - I have pleasures in my life, and I'm ok with that. If you're totally ok with no sex, no tasty food and no pleasures - go for it! It's your life, but for the sake of all good things in the world - don't imagine yourself better than us just because you have no sex.)))
@@bxp_bass You don't get the point. It's not about sex, it's about the passive state of "getting entertained" that is a postmodern pest
This is an excellent video. I'm a music teacher but this content should be mandatory for all students of all disciplines. You articulate brilliantly what "learning to learn" means. Information, however abundant, can only take you so far - a good educator will show you how to contextualise and utilise it, navigating through it to find your own path. This is what "practice" really is, I think. It's a way of actualising acquired theoretical information into the physical world through an exploratative and creative process.
Wow so good to hear that all out loud in one place. You are wise beyond your years.
hey Adam, i discovered your channel few months ago, and it got me back to music (alongside rediscovering jazz). i picked up my guitar after 3 years of not touching it (and I’m just 18) and since then i feel like i made significant progress. along the way i found myself coming back to your videos, watching them over and over again at different stages of my progress, learning something new each time. hearing all of those things that once fascinated me conceptually, but now fascinate me practically when i actually understand them is an awesome experience. thank you
One learns to play an instrument better from a teacher than from watching a bunch of videos because the teacher will know what lesson is appropriate at a given stage.
A person can watch a video that shows how to play a very difficult piece, but not be ready to tackle it. That could cause a beginner to become discouraged. The teacher will help grow the student from where they start learning step by step to be able to approach more and more difficult music.
i appreciate you as a youtube music educator especially bc you dont whip out your bass and just show off every 5 seconds
Music theory is on the internet, but it doesn't force you to work. From the music theory class I took (equivalent to music theory 1 and 2 I think. AP Music theory!) I can tell you it's a lot of work. And I only took the first level. Basically what I'm saying is music schools work because they force their students to practice. A lot.
This is one of the best videos I've ever seen. As one that thoroughly enjoys theory, I'm often asked, "why bother? ______ didn't know any and look at them!" I always try to explain to them that theory is little more than a short cut. Whether ______ knew theory or not, they still used it. From now on, I'm just going to link them this video. You explain it way better than I do. lol
I've just found the Vsauce of music... amazing channel!!!
Haha I was thinking the same!
Or is Vsauce just the Adam Neely of science?
The extended subV7sauce with interpolated II-7's of music. I dig it too.
i absolutely love these deep thinking videos. these are topics that many musicians aren't even conscious of, so having someone talk us through the thought processes behind these ideas is invaluable and extremely fascinating
this is such an important idea to keep in mind. i remember when i used to skate as a teenager and I would try to learn new tricks, I would always watch youtube videos for tips. it was getting to a point where i was spending more time looking for "tricks and tips" videos instead of actually skating.
once i started limiting my time watching videos and started skating more, I was able to learn new tricks much faster. taught me to appreciate the process.
brilliant and profound , as usual ! that's so true , whatever you're trying to learn you need to "incarnate" this learning ( in latin incarnare : in the flesh ) so no pure " computing" in music . thanks Adam .
this is a really old video of yours, but 4 years later, it really has inspired me to keep studying music after putting it off for months :)
This is a great video. I think it's truly honest and sensible to ask the questions you ask and how you address them. Such a great teacher.
¡Saludos de México!
I have learned about Music from you. Some stuff my Piano Teacher wasn’t very clear about I learned from you. Thanks for being a great UA-camr
This video is basically about me for the past 5 years. Started a 10,000 hour log, now I'm making a wikiversity project on how to sing and play guitar. Just sayin'.
I like it very much! Great stuff, Zen Master Adam Neely!
Love the Neely. Have loved the Neely. This vid just brought it to fruition for the comment. He deserves it. Explained so much of what I feel. Thanks.
Thank you very much for this insight. I appreciate the time you took to make this video, I can assure you this is much needed.
Dude this is fantastic content. Thank you for taking the time and energy to create this for people. Props to you my friend!
This is such an excellent video. Also loved cantus firmus and bartok!!
This was probably the most thought-provoking video I have seen of yours-- thanks a million!
"Do I like it?" is a question I asked myself to teach myself how to play in odd time signatures. I've spent time watching, reading, and practicing the methods laid out in books, online videos, and whatnot. But it wasn't until I started playing in odd time as a means to actually express myself that everything started to click.
awesome,.... people always ask me why i play so well and i give the same answer I play what I like and I practise everyday... because I like it the cycle begins again..... awesome work adam
after thirteen years of university (!!) the one thing i discovered is that the most useful thing about being in school is social - 'seeing other people DOING' .... that makes all the difference in the world
Love this video, Adam. You can practice the same piece with the same errors or lack of engagement and get a perfectly performed disaster. The value of your lessons for myself is not only the information, but absorbing your spirit of adventure and curiosity about music. This enthusiasm may ":infect" so that listeners like myself are willing to take risks of creativity when they play their owns instruments. Thank you.
A neurological epistemology of the phenomenological side of music to integrate learned material as a full body total nervous system action, just as hearing is an action a processing in the nervous system would revolutionise teaching and learning. Great Work...off to practice...
Fantastic video! Epistemology and autodidact are two of my favourite words, and it's really refreshing to hear them spoken by someone.
Adam, this is one of my favorite videos!!!
This is by far the best video you have ever made.
When first learning music parts in band or orchestra, young people often do not like their part until they hear and realize how it fits into the piece. With an understanding of complex harmony and meter, they expand their understanding and appreciation of squiggly air.
For the record I've learned more from you in the last few months than I had in my 20 or so years of playing/learning music previously.
You're awesome. I'm an elementary school teacher and love the talk about epistemology - practice more - actually DO it. Thanks!
I love your videos because they make me think a lot about what I like and mostly what I know in music. I think reflecting on my own learning is one of the things that makes me progress most as a musician. It actually applies to any discipline in life. It's important to think about what we do and why we do it.
Thank you very much for your videos. Go ahead with them because they're a big help! :-) :-)
Dude... you rock, man. I dig all your vids and always learn something. Thanks for the time and effort.
Thanks a lot, you always approach interesting subjects, and it's in the same instructive and inspiring.
this has got to be one of my favourite videos from you Adam. Got to wonder how you find the time :)
+sti11ness Me too!
+Adam Neely I hit like because I like it but...do I like it?
HaHa..Nice one
I am really enjoying these videos. I've only seen maybe three or four, but I can't stop watching them. I am really liking your 'method' of teaching, and your UA-cam video production is excellent, I'm digging it!!! Keep up the good work man! I'll keep watching!!!! And P.S. I don't even play the bass, I'm a recovering guitarist (I haven't played for about 5-6 years and am trying to get back into it).
Oh and congrats, you're now my first Patreon subscription. . .
How does this not have more views?!? Thank you adam for always inspiring me and making me want to improve!
Mr Neely, I learned bass from your channel. I already played guitar though, but bass I learned a lot of technical stuffs from you. Thanks.
Loving your channel, keep up the good work.
Am a six string guitarist. I find your videos so helpful. You need to reach out to lot of people man. Great going!
That 'trust fall' clip on the beach made me laugh out loud. Great channel, Adam. Keep up the great work.
One of your best videos Adam. Well Done.
Best bass channel I have encountered. The content is more succinct, rich and useful than any of its nearest competitors (as of dec 2016). One thing though - suggested resources for the topics discussed in each video and explicit recommendations would go a long way. For example, while the "trust your ears and practice" is great, a thorough understanding of music theory and its application is a tough nut to crack and more input regarding suggested methods of success would be appreciated.
This video has really changed my thought process to leaning bass and music theory overall. Guess I'll be enrolling in a introductory music theory and performance at my local university college of music. I'm self taught via trial and error, UA-cam internet, several bass instruction books on scales, theory, arpeggios.. This has really been enlightening... Knowing 'what' to do, versus the knowledge of 'why' to do it. Thanks so much....
Nice videos Adam! Finaly an interesting youtube channel, please keep doing them cheers from paris!
Adam, this is perhaps your most useful post to date.
I really needed to hear that, thanks Adam!
Loved this video. Thank you!
Absolutely love it!
Tosin
i agree that formal music education is good and has its place. but if your dedicated enough your not just sitting there watching. those examples of other youtubers were great, mark from talking bass and scott ian bass lessons are amazing! i would sit and watch your videos because i find them more interesting than practical. but scott and marks videos im always sitting on the edge of my bed with the bass on and practicing as they explain and teach. its awesome and i think ive learnt so much more that way than i ever did in school. some people just cant concentrate in a quiet formal room with pen and paper. i need a bass or guitar or drum kit infront of me and practically learning
SUCH A GREAT VIDEO. THANK YOU SO MUCH
As always....thank you Adam.
Adam, I discovered you earlier this week. I am a percussionist with nearly 10 years under my belt, and not as much practice as I could have. I really like your videos, and your professional outlook. I'm still hooked on your K-Mart soundtrack on the Vaporwave video. Keep doing what you do best, man; I love it.
you are the music teacher i was always looking for
In the first 25 seconds you showcased both Flea of RHCP as well as a Kala U-Bass player. I can finally die happy
Truly great ideas, much appreciated.
Great video! Let's just start practicing!
You talked about a good balance of proper (and classical) training and sitting by yourself figuring it out. I've known some really good self-taught musicians who didn't have much musical understanding, and some really good trained musicians who didn't know how to speak through the music. I think both are important aids, and that's what I really felt like you were getting across here.
You're amazing so glad I found this channel
Thank you so much Adam.
Wow... you have truly justified the belief in practising.. Thank you
+Adam Neely I think your video is talking about Process and Accountability. Accountability is showing up after you have done significant work, and being able to demonstrate it, to your peers, profs, audience etc. Process is more difficult, and some graduates never grab onto it. It is akin to what a scientist does, working with control sets and small variations on an idea, until a discovery or new idea is formed. Repeat, apply, repeat . . . That's what you should be getting in school, my Masters Degree was in Architecture. You don't earn anything or learn anything by watching videos or sitting in class, such a good point. "Process" is learning by doing, taking an idea and making ever so small changes until you learn something new or abandon it and go on to a new idea. This is why the best teachers are eternal students. --
I don't play bass, I play piano (and a little bit of guitar, picked up 2,5 years ago) but Im glad I found your channel. Found it cause I want to pick up bass as soon as I've got the time and money to do so. These video's are all super interesting, and not just for bass players
Great stuff man, just discovered you and I'll be stopping by regularly!
Hello Adam!
I am a full time Bassist from age 17 through now, currently 59...
Still gigging and learning.
Berklee Alum. Veteran of all styles, road, Vegas, Disney/Epcot for 14 years, blah, blah....
Anyway, I really appreciate your videos. Your choices of topics, and the way expressed intelligently and with snippets of humor interjected...very well done.
I've been transcribing pop/Jazz/R & B/ fusion and so on since my Berklee Days.
I will be recommending any students of mine to watch all of your videos!
All the best and keep them coming!
I'd like to share a tune I won the Jazziz Unsigned Artist Competition with back in 96. Done on Adats pre copy and paste... An obvious Jaco tribute. John Patitucci was the judge and I won a very nice Tobias Classic :)
I am massively grateful for the quality analysis of music, and so I'm doubly happy to provide some philosophy analysis in return. Namely, in "traditional" epistemology, belief is much more mundane than the way Adam uses it in this video. It's mundane in that "having a belief that x is y" just means someone believes that x is y, they're likely to say "x is y" or to think it to themselves. It's mainly there to account for the fact that you can't know something unless you think it at some point lol. Now, the notion of belief that Adam uses here is closer to "know-how", which figures in a distinction between "knowing that" and "knowing how", with the first one being the mundane version from above plus justification and truth, and the second one being a lot more interesting.
Specifically, you could know that a scale proceeds in some way, and you might be able to recite how to produce it and think this recitation without saying it out loud, but unless you could play that scale or sing it, (i.e. unless you actually knew how to produce the scale) you might have knowledge in the "traditional" epistemological sense, but you certainly wouldn't *know* the scale in a musically relevant way. It's quite funny, because the analysis of "know-how" comes, as far as I know, from the American pragmatist tradition of philosophy, and the habit of overinflating the strength of belief is very American lmao. Knowing how important know-how is to a musician, it's easy to see how it could creep into that musician's approach to systematically understanding learning itself. Traditional epistemology (i.e. how Plato said it is) has been known to have limits for a while, and its inability to accommodate the everyday notion of someone "knowing how" is just another one of its limitations.
The practical takeaway from what I'm saying is that it further supports what Adam is saying here: just taking information, just *knowing that* is not only not enough to have the knowledge in the musically relevant sense, but unless you apply what you learned in making music, you're very likely to lose even that, as your memory of some youtube videos fades.
going to practice now. thanks adam
Great video! Just discovered your channel. Great stuff!
I now know that you know about Tosin Abasi and Animals as Leaders.
For some reason I feel excited about your future videos even more.
More wonderful stuff. However, after studying epistemology for 20 or so years, I came to reject the JTB model of knowledge in favor of a conceptual understanding of knowledge. Instead of knowledge being a species of belief, knowledge in fact is conceptual in nature, which is more fundamental than belief. If you believe that the sky is part of our planet's atmosphere, for example, you need first to have the concepts 'sky', 'planet', and 'atmosphere' to formulate such a belief. In other words, you need to *know* what a sky is, what a planet is, and what an atmosphere is, before you can derive such a belief in the first place. JTB needs to be rejected; a good theory of concepts is what should be understood.
Otherwise, wonderful bass tips!
I believe you Adam, thank you sir!
Quite excellent video. You've simultaneously inspired me and made me question my complete lack of musical direction in terms of learning and practicing.
Like a lot of people, my career has trumped my music and my guitar playing. I used to practice quite a bit but it was never very focused or disciplined.
Lately I've been yearning to take up playing seriously again instead of just letting the stuff in my music room collect dust or, even worse, spending 20 minutes noodling around to a backing track on UA-cam, never taking the time to further my musical education.
That said I've never quite been able to learn to read music. I've tried it with books off and on and lately tried using some apps or online material.
My two problems have been a lack of patience and a lack of access to a good teacher.
I have way more patience now than I did when I was younger but I doubt I will ever have the time to take up with a teacher, at least not anytime soon.
Are there any specific materials... books, dvd, online, etc... you could recommend for someone like me?
You make some really good points in this video and I'm glad I watched it.
Thanks and keep it up. Your vids have been an inspiration!
Alright, so I digested a good bit of what you had to say on various videos, but this one in particular takes the cake for the following reasons:
1. I've always had a particular distaste for the way rhythm is taught in Western schools of thought, so looking for various resources on the internet has been hugely beneficial considering that I do have a degree in music and don't feel that I received the education I wanted.
2. Having that information did NOTHING for my playing until I started applying it as well as using it as a tool for analysis.
3. Having a degree in music meant absolutely nothing unless I was consistently practicing. This practicing lead me to gigs (300+ in the past year).
4. Practice doesn't make perfect, but people who play at whatever level are usually much better and more *consistent* than those who have more information and do not practice/play every single day.
5. The masters who talk about how much they play seem to always graze over the fact that they play *almost all day long, every single day of the week.*
This speaks to me on many levels, so thanks again for another killer video. This will be great to show to a lot of musicians of varying abilities.
Love this video!
Great vid. thxs. Now down to practice.
Adam, I know diddly about music and yet, I find your videos strangely interesting to watch :) Maybe it is specifically _because_ I know very little about your subject that I can concentrate more on your thought processes which I _do_ appreciate. Oh, and I like your humour. Keep on thinking and smiling :)
you're awesome! Keep on!
Very Cool Video, It is so true. The Internet without real practice, is nothing.
Just found your Channel and love your style. (and content) Now back to practice.
After subscribing of course.
This was fantastic
Love the videos, keep it up!
The "Do I like it" approach can actually work, depending on what kind of musician you want to be. For example, if you are going to play and compose folkloric songs coherent with your background, you might just don't need any academical education, and that kind of education might even be irrelevant, time consuming and utterly useless for what you want to do. An Anatolian saz player who grew up in a village hearing folkloric melodies and learning from other musicians who, like him/herself are "self taught", will do just fine, or even better, without studying academically accepted music theory.
In my opinion it actually comes down to what we understand by "musical education". A good musician will always know what he/she is doing, whether or not this knowledge is coming from an academical education.
thanks, again. very informative as usual. one of these days i must practice a bit. ;-)
Just one thing. The feeling I get from this is that you're kinda saying practice is everything, and putting the things we learn from the internet (such as your videos) will make us better musicians. I agree however I'd like to offer you a different perspective:
For the sake of argument; I have had a concept in my mind about something I'd like to apply to my music. I have the skill-set all there, everything I need except the information and knowledge. Here is where videis such as yours will come in extremely useful.
An example of this is your video where you harmonize Shape Of You. This is a concept I have already figured out in my head, however I have never had the knowledge to actually put it into practice. How many times have you had a good song you've written, but you feel as though the chord progression is... a bit... just boring? Using videos such as yours WILL make me a better musician, you're supplying the information which I can then develop into my knowledge.
Anyway, maybe this is what you were trying to say, but I feel as though you kinda missed out other perspectives when learnig and improving.