You must have at least ONE degree in education?!? If not, you are a natural born teacher. And, I say this as a retired educator of 28 years! All jokes aside, you ARE the UA-cam king of sourdough education! Thank you for all you do!
Thank you. I have no formal training in education, but I have always loved learning and teaching. I come from a family of teachers. My mother was, and most of my siblings are teachers. I also do the vast majority of these videos completely unscripted. Sometimes I’ll have one page of notes, but often nothing written down when I start.
I have a sluggish homemade starter that seems to very slowly peak, have small bubbles, give off that "vinegar" smell and seems to overferment/overproof my dough into something stickier during shaping than when I finish my stretch and folds. This is EXACTLY the video I needed----had to comment before I even finished the video because the timing was SO APT. Thank you so much for all of your knowledge!!!! You ROCK.
Thanks Tom. You probably saved a lot of people from dumping out their starter and running to the store to buy yeast. Your video displays your knowledge of sourdough, how to fix your starter, and a entertaining delivery which made it easy to understand what an acidic starter is.
From all of us visual learners, THANK YOU again for your demos combined with clear descriptions - you stand alone in the field of sourdough teachers! (Like a cow, not a dinosaur)
I wanted to express my heartfelt gratitude for the incredible videos you've shared. For months, I struggled to perfect my sourdough bread, trying various methods without much success. Then, I came across your videos, and everything changed. Your clear instructions and insightful tips made all the difference. Your dedication and generosity in sharing your knowledge do not go unnoticed. Thank you so much for helping me achieve something I once thought was out of reach.
This must be the most important video for home bakers that came out from the Institute in Cleveland...!!It has put together all the answers that a medium-advanced level home baker like myself wanted to get for a lot of problems and questions about my baking life...!Well done.....!
Thanks, once again, for the science. I keep my starter refrigerated & TRY to refresh once a week. The day before I want to bake, I do 2 peak to peak feedings, refrigerate overnight, feed again & I'm ready to bake. Now I understand why this works for me. Looking forward to your upcoming refrigerator maintenance.
I've been using instant yeast for a while, always afraid to try nurturing a sourdough starter and I've finally taken the leap about a week and a half ago. I'm happy to report that I have a healthy starter after 10 days and I was able to catch the peak for my first mini baguette batch. With your example using cows and acid spitting dinosaurs, my mind is reminded to care for the cows. Save the cows everyone! Anyway, thank you for sharing your knowledge, findings and spending time laying things out for anyone interested in the topic 🙏 Happy sourdough baking!
To all viewers… DO NOT MISS THE DEMONSTRATION OF STATER BEHAVIOR! I’ve been baking sourdough bread for about 4 years. After watching this video my knowledge doubled!
Brilliant video! By far the best explanation I've seen anywhere. And the cows & acid-spitting velociraptors were a great (not to mention entertaining) analogy.
That demo was worth its weight in gold! I thought you said overfeeding was bad, too. I'm pretty sure it was in the starter video (or series, somewhere in there). I LOVE this video, and it cracked my twelve-year-old grandson up so much to see that barnyard demo. This is awesome - awesome - awesome! Thank you so much, Tom! :) Please, keep up the good lab work! Love your sense of humor.
Wow ...wow... wow such a concise and precise explanations with fun demonstrations to the feeding cycle for sourdough baking. The explanations are at its best that even beginners like me can comprehend with better understanding through your generous sharing and commitment to sourdough baking. Thank you for your videos and experiments, commitment and dedication for all sourdough bakers especially those who are intimidated by sourdough bread making. Thank you...! All your videos are so well thought of and presented. Living in a tropical country your insight to double bulk fermentation helped me in baking a beautiful loaf. I couldn't have done it without your great explanation! Looking forward to more videos
@@thesourdoughjourney There isn’t much information available (and I do quite a bit of research) that clarifies how the variables affect the starter that isn’t used everyday/very regularly. Please continue helping us home bakers!
I just want to say that this happens in microbakeries too. Yesterday, I had to throw kilos of dough in the compost because by the time the dough had hit the percentage rise I was looking for, it had completely liquified 🥲. I feed my starter two times a day, but I guess I haven’t being paying attention to what it was telling me and I paid the price for it 😄 Thank you so much for your videos! I’ve been baking sourdough since 2016 and I never felt I fully got it in a way that made sense until I found your videos. About 6 months ago, I decided to follow my passion and opened my own sourdough microbakery. Even though your videos are targeted more towards home bakers, I still find the information you share to be extremely valuable.
Great Video! Watching your videos, I have gone from bricks, to pancakes, to pretty darn good sourdough loaves with 6.5 hours BF. I couldn't have done it without you and your wonderful experiments, all of which I have watched multiple times. Many thanks!
I was looking for reviews of Ben Starr's sourdough bread recipe for lazy people, because I had tried it and managed to also fail with this supposedly foolproof method. Found your website with the review and then got hooked because your explanations are really great and comprehensive.
I finally understand what is happening to my starter that always produces a densed and gummy loaf. Living in a tropical country, it is harder to keep the starter at the desired temperatures.
Loved the barnyard tragedy. LOL. Effective way of explaining what happens during the fermentation lifecycle. I followed your advice and did a 1010 feeding of my acidic starter and within seven hours I'm back up and running with a very bubbly and thick active starter. Great videos. Your sense of humor keeps it entertaining.
I started uh, well, a starter, beginning of this year following an artisan SD book's instruction. After so many days the starter recipe dropped using whole grains. I dumped it and started following another book. That starter also struggled a bit but I think it was due to the whole timing issue of 24 hrs. in a day (starters don't wear watches). I switched to your advice and fed my starter just after peak. I listened/observed my starter for when she said, "Please sir, may I have some more?" This was a month old, weak starter and soon it changed to an overflowing mess on my counter regularly so I had to rethink my starter size vs. container vol. It's nice to not worry about the starter and just focus on the rest of the dough recipe. My loaves look great and I'm getting good compliments after doing the work. Thanks Tom.
Like a lot of things, I put fixing the real problem (acidity) off until last. Inconsistent starter rise times, sluggish levain, no strength in shaped dough, and no proof. Every word of this video is gold...it should have been the first thing I watched/learned. Thank you! I had previously been doing 1:1:1 feedings, but basically getting dough that wouldn't rise/proof. Super smooth, but zero strength (puddle). I'm convinced now it's acidity. I'm doing a few peak to peaks to get a feel for shortening times and then will be gradually switching to something like 1:5:5 - which I'm hoping is a great balance of strength ratio and convenience (~12hr peak). If I understand correctly... if I'm good with the time a 1:5:5 takes to peak/cycle, there's no quality difference between that and a 1:1:1 (or a 1: 50:50 for that matter). It's just quantity of starter (and waste) and the cycle duration.
Seriously, NO ONE on this platform can impart so much knowledge about sourdough than YOU! I’ll be rewatching several videos in your series tomorrow. Thank you IMMENSELY!!!! 😊
@@thesourdoughjourneyQuestion: Your guide and video mentions keeping the starter warmer Day 4 and onward. I noticed your starter ranged from 77-79 degrees while filming. At what point in building a starter do you keep your starter at 74 degrees? I ask because the guide refers to a starter peaking at 74 degrees between 4 and 6 hrs consistently is ready to be used in baking. Thank you!
I found out my starter I'd been struggling with for weeks to get going was acidic thanks to your videos...she's finally ALIVE!! lol Thank you for your content!!
This tutorial did help!!! I definitely started seeing results using your methods. This most recent trial I had enough to make two loaves. I didn't want to waste it, so started it last night. Put in the fridge over night and half of the am. Just pulled them out of the oven. Patience is definitely key!!!! To fully get the starter up and running it took at least a month. And some nights I'd just let it sit. Thank you again!
I was discarding in order to feed my starter for a following day bake. I knocked over the straight-from-the-fridge, liquidy jar and, easily, 60-70% of it went EVERYWHERE! The jar was nearly empty, but I did my usual 1:1:1 feeding, no way it was ready for next day baking. I wish I’d known about drastically increasing the feeding ratio back then. Hoping it won’t happen again (it was the devil to clean up!)but, if something like that happens again, I’ll handle it better. Thank you!
This afternoon I took my first ever sourdough loaf out of the oven. whoa - boy did i make SOURdough bread. I've been enjoying your various videos and am SO glad you made this one! I honestly laughed out loud when the cows got some vinegar in their water.(and at your NASA apron confession). Anyway - THANK YOU for making this Journey (or in my case, Adventure) so interesting and entertaining! Peak-to-peak here I go!
Appreciate the work you put into this and giving us novices valuable info….I know I really needed this as I believe my starters need to be strengthened! Thank You
You have no idea how helpful these videos are. Im so profoundly grateful for your knowledge, willingness to share this as well as your TIME. Thank you.🙏❤️
Really fantastic and informative video, thank you so much for the effort and time you put into it. I enjoy learning about the science behind what I'm doing, so I'm so glad I took the time to watch this. I was always confused by people's descriptions of starters being "sleepy" or needing to "wake them up", but I can see now that what it really comes down to is the acidity. I had many lightbulb moments here, including with your explanation of the effect of temperature on the protease. Living in Australia, where my kitchen has been averaging 29C in recent weeks, I have a new appreciation for why my sourdoughs seem to be breaking down so quickly. As a side note, it was interesting hearing you mention that keeping a starter in the fridge can make it hard to see when it has peaked. I keep a 100% hydration rye starter that very visibly doubles, peaks, and falls in the fridge. Perhaps an added advantage of a rye starter over normal bread flour. Thanks once again!
Thank you for caring and sharing!!! You are truly a blessing!!! This information was so valuable and helpful. Thanks once again!!!! May God continue to bless you and keep you safe and healthy. 🙌🏻🙏🏻🥳😇
Tom, you are a rock star!!! I finally understand what was happening to my starters (yes, PLURAL)! I couldn't get them to rise consistently, and I tossed them all. Finally bought some starter and after several days it was going the same way as the previously ones. I have now corrected my mistakes and look forward to maintaining a healthy, strong starter. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!
You are spot on. I did not want to feed my starter before peak so I waited to smell the vinegar to know I was after peak. To have enough starter to back with I just added a 1:1:1 mixture to my already vinegared starter and saw a huge decrease in the productivity - so much so it is probably not worth trying to bake with. Now I know why. THANKS!!
I was an ignorant about the starter and after two screwups I do it methodically and do my bulk fermentation in my proof box. At 10pm I prep the levain 1: 5 :5 so in the morning I can bake. From the levain jar I prep another levain 1:5:5 and when it raises a little bit I put it in the fridge for the next cycle. If I use 1:1: 1 feeding my levain become acidic and flat in few hours. As usual great presentation.
So helpful! I was close to pitching my starter that I got off a friend and left in my fridge for a month. It’s DEFINITELY acidic and I now have a plan to help it get back to full health - thank you so much for helping me understand what’s going on with it, hugely helps. Also enjoyed the visual aid of the cows et al. Thank you so much, already you have given me more confidence!
@@thesourdoughjourney it's started to rise!! After a couple of weeks of faffing and getting nowhere I woke up to progress!! All thanks to you!!! STOKED. Thank you for helping me not pitch it!!
Ive been doing small experiments since starting my sourdough journey. Even got my kiddos in on them. Its been fun but sometimes i just want to know why right now. You have just made my day and im loving the videos.
Thank you so much for this video, Tom, and for your many responses on Facebook to my questions and to those of others. They have been invaluable! This video saved my starter. It's a very full-flavored starter, developed by a friend. People love the flavor. I've tried other starters in the same recipe and they just aren't the same in flavor or behavior in the dough. Thanks again for teaching me how to save this very tasty starter.
I have a starter from your instructions. But due to my work and home life I have an acidic starter. I am headed in the right direction. Thank you for your research and information!!!!
This is sooooo helpful!!! I knew my starter was too acidic and my new 1-5-5- was at peak in 6 hours, but I plan to continue strengthening it and checking the ph until I get it to a reasonable 4ish level. It started at like 3.91 and that was way acidic. Very helpful!!! Thank you I like the explanations, the demonstrations and the long videos. I feel sorry for the cows, though!
Dude, your Romulus/Remus Joseph Campbell comment… you have a devoted follower now. I would love to hang out with you for a week and just talk. Amazing.
Wow! I watched this video at the perfect time. You covered every single question I had gone through in the past 2 weeks! I’ve been struggling not knowing what was going on. Thank you for this information you are amazing and I look forward to watching more of your videos. You got a new follower!
It's a fantastic video. You're a good teacher. Thank you so much. I'm a beginner sourdough baker and I only bake once a week and keeping the starter in the fridge is not as easy as it seems. I'm looking forward to your refrigerator maintenance method video.
Wow, what a great teacher you are! I learned a lot about how the sourdough starter functions through different stages. Excellent presentation, thank you so much!
Your channel is a treasure!❤ I am so new to the sourdough, I would watch your episode a 1000 times to understand every detail in your video! I love there are always science related to the topic! Thank you for doing the hard work! ❤
Tom, thank you for the invaluable insights you share on sourdough baking. Your videos have been incredibly educational for me. I have a few questions: 1. Regarding sourdough starter, could we increase the percentage of starter in the recipe by using all the water for the feeding (1:1:1), then adding the remaining flour to adjust the final hydration of the dough? Basically using higher sourdough stater, like more than 50%.
2. I've been making Neapolitan-style pizza with sourdough, and achieving a strong gluten network is crucial for stretching the dough without tearing. Considering the acidity of sourdough can weaken gluten, would you suggest adding a small amount of baking powder to counterbalance this effect? Sometimes, during a 48-hour cold fermentation, I encounter issues (thanks to your insights I know why now 😀) with flat, weak, and tearing pizza dough. Would baking powder help in such cases? 3. In your video "The SECRET of Bulk Fermentation: Measuring Dough Temperature and % Rise - The Two-Factor Method," when would you recommend shaping the pizza balls? Should we complete bulk fermentation to 100% and then shape the balls for final proofing? Or is it better to shape them before bulk fermentation and treat each individual ball separately during bulk fermentation?
Thank you! 1. When you exceed about 35% starter on your dough, the acidity and weak gluten from the fermented starter begins to break down the dough structure too quickly. 2. I’ve not tried adding baking powder to reduce the acidity. I’ve not heard of any sourdough bakers trying it. The science seems to indicate it would help, but I’m skeptical only because I’ve never heard of anyone doing it. 3. I would shape the balls after bulk fermentation.
Oh my goodness. Now I know what's been wrong with my effects to make sourdough bread which always ends up in a bread tin as it seems to be going well then the final shaping ends in a frisbee like dough pat! This now makes sense to me what is wrong and what I need to do next time. Thank you so much you sourdough genius 👌🇬🇧
Thank you so much for all the education you share so generously with all of us!! This video was tremendously helpful in troubleshooting the issues my 3 year old starter “Fred” has been having. I decided to try the high ratio feeding method to aggressively de-acidify Fred. It has been sitting out now for almost 48 hours in a 72 degree kitchen and it has not peaked, it has risen about 1/2 inch, no dome, lots of tiny bubbles… It started out smelling nice and sweet, now I’m starting to smell the acid buildup again. What should I do? Just hang in there and wait for the peak, then feed? Or do I intervene now before it gets too acidic again? Gah!
Thank you so much, Tom! You released another video full of valuable information (and fun!) and easy to understand. I highly appreciate all the work and research that you put behind all your videos. I have currently some problems with my starter and I wanted to send you some photos and ask what could be wrong. But now I think I know what it is wrong! Acidity...
Thank you for such an informative video!!! It explains perfectly what is going on with my starter at the moment. Loved the acid spitting dinosaur analogy!
Tom, I should have known you would have the answer I needed. This video is amazing and I learned how to strengthen my starter AND how to keep it strong from now on. I had pretty good results when I first started baking but recently the dough was gummy and didn't rise as well. I was about ready to give up and you saved me. Thank you. I am also very sorry your job at NASA didn't work out! This video made me laugh out loud (not all the way through, just the appropriate parts!). Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Take care, Anna
Congratulations Tom…this video is one of your best if not the best!!! You put so much work behind and the explanations you give are spot on! I am very much looking forward to a book you will publish hopefully soon. Greetings from Greece.
Great video, Tom! Can you comment on what is happening when people post that they made a gorgeous fluffy high standing loaf of sourdough from starving starter? Like starter that's been in the fridge for 4 weeks without being fed and then they just take it out and use it in their bread recipe without feeding it? Your explanation of what happens at each stage of the starters process is always so logical. The yeast is most active at peak, and it makes sense that this would be the time you would want to use your starter in a recipe. But these people who use starving starter (And I've done it effectively myself when I've been desperate to make a loaf and forgot to create the levain) really blow my mind! I mean, it makes sense because when you mix your dough, you are effectively giving the starter a giant feeding with all the flower you use, right? It does take longer but it's still rises the dough pretty well. Sometimes exactly the same effectiveness as starter that is used when it's at its peak. So I really would love to understand what the argument is to create the levain in the first place. Is the idea that eventually that starter will become too acidic or are there other reasons?
You can use an unfed starter, but that doesn’t mean you should. The results are very inconsistent depending how long it has been since it was last fed, and some other factors. It’s hard to say without knowing the specifics of each case, but a few things I’ve seen with my tests: You can use a refrigerated starter for about one week after its last feeding, with pretty good results. The results go downhill after that. An unfed starter works best in dough at lower percentages (10% starter versus 20%, for example), and it works best at low dough temps (70F versus 80%)l. Lastly, it works better at lower hydration (70%) versus high (80%). If I used 20%, 2-week unfed starter in 80F dough with 78% hydration it would be a disaster. If I use 10% in 68F dough at 70% hydration, it will make a decent loaf.
Thanks for the helpful video! You put so much effort in it. Thanks for that! I have two questions, because I find it a bit confusing when I heard it. 1. You talked about the peak-to-peak method and mentioned, that you take out the acidic starter from the fridge and feed it in a 1:2:2 ratio. But in the high feeding ratio section you mentioned that this ratio is not so good for acidic starters, because you take all the acidity with you to the next starter. How does that fit? 2. We talk about peak times of 4 hours, but besides temperature this is highly dependent on the ratio, isn't it? So when you use a 1:2:2 ratio it would develop much faster in comparison to a 1:10:10 ratio, does it?
I knew that part could be confusing, but I think you have it backwards. High feeding ratios carry over very little existing starter, so they sometimes can knock down the acidity in one or two feedings. That's why I recommend it first. If that doesn't work, then I recommend the peak to peak method, but if you do the peak to peak method with high feeding ratios, it strettch out the time to much and it's difficult to monitor the starter to catch it at peak. So I am recommending a "suboptimal" lower feeding ratio (1:2:2), so you can get more feedings in during the day or in a short period of time. It is purely a scheduling convenience. If you had a lab team monitoring and feeding your starter 24/7 , then you would do peak to peak with 1:5:5. But if you need to work, sleep, etc, you can get more 1:2:2 feedings in and it has the same outcome in the end.
On topic, I was afraid of leaving my starter in the fridge unattended for an upcoming trip and decided to put it in the fridge as a test run. I put it in right after feeding it. Three days later I took it out and placed it on my counter and it doubled by the morning of the next day. It is more lively than before I put it in. Before, I had to keep it in a yogurt maker to keep it around 75° F. Now it's doubling daily at 65°F-68°F. I believe it has strengthened because of letting it rest in the fridge.
Wow Tom! I loved it! I bake once a week. I feed my starter right after using it in the dough at 20:30:30 and put it in the fridge. The day before making the next dough I take it out in the afternoon, at around 10pm I feed it 20 (or 30):160:160 and in the morning it’s ready to be used in a dough. I never paid attention to the acidity in the starter. I will from now and do maintenance (as much as I can) thank you again for these videos!
Thank you. Your method is similar to mine. It is probably working fine; but may benefit from a discard and feeding before making the leaven at night. But if it’s working, don’t change anything!
@@thesourdoughjourney I’m going to make dough tomorrow. I took my dough out now and will do one peak feeding before the final feeding (at peak) overnight.
Hi Tom, If your house is colder and it takes your starter longer to rise would we still use the peaking around 4-6 hour method to determine if it’s ready to bake?
This was SO helpful, thank you!! Quick question - for an established starter, should it be at peak within the 4-6 hours, or doubled by that time? I am needing to work on mine. It is more than doubling within the 4-6 hours, but will continue to rise for hours after that, very slowly but still going. Often times I am thinking it has peaked, I will use it in a recipe and watch it keep rising well after I used it. I am also smelling a strong acidic smell today so I hopped on your channel to see how to fix it. I will be practicing the high feeding ratio. I missed two days of feedings on my countertop oops!!
I don’t make a big distinction between doubling and peaking because some people starters will more than double, and some peak multiple times. I’d say the 4-6 hour guidance is for “the initial peak” and “roughly double,” but I don’t worry too much about a specific measurement. Every starter is a unique biological colony.
For the high feeding ratio of 1:5:5, can you do that a second time to strengthen your starter? Or do you recommend doing 1:2:2 after? I did my first 1:5:5 ratio last night and it smells a lot better 12 hours later and is still rising
Thank you so much for the wonderfully informative video. I just started following you on IG. I was pleasantly surprised to hear you say you’re in Cleveland cuz we’re in Medina. 😃 This is exactly what’s happening to my starter and now I know how to fix it.
Thanks Tom! I needed this so much! Acidity issues are exactly what I thought was sabotaging me, but I wasn't sure how to remedy!! What do you think about letting whats left of my starter after use, dry out in the jar? Then reconstitute it a day or two before I need it again??? Thanks for all your hard work!!
Sir, thank you very much for the effort and passion you have put into this channel! You have taken me to a whole new level, THANK YOU and please keep going. Just a side note, if you have time, please make a video on your absolute favorite recipe for one loaf that you think is the best. No science, just the recipe. I ask because it was difficult for me to find the recipe in your content. Also, have you ever experimented with baking the Borodinsky bread? Thank you and please keep exploring.
Thank you. No science here, but a little comedy. But a very simple method. NEW!: The Sourdough Brothers: Sourdough for Busy People ua-cam.com/video/M8SiQJzFrrw/v-deo.html
you got me at the NASA apron lol, thanks for making the video so informative, despite the length (yeah I'm a lazy student), I did enjoy all of It, especially the cow demo
Tom, excellent video as always! So, what research have you done on starter storage temperatures and their impact on flavor? I've read that storing your starter at 55F optimizes the balance of the microorganisms to achieve maximum flavor.
I don’t do a lot of flavor related experiments because flavor is subjective. I’ve heard and seen a lot of conflicting information and I can’t really advise one way or another. Every starter has a different flavor profile. Some prefer warmer temps, some cooler. But maintaining your starter consistently at warmer or cooler temps can change the bacterial profile and flavor. Day to day temperature changes don’t do much of anything.
@@thesourdoughjourney Ah, you nailed it "Maintaining your starter consistently at warmer or cooler temps can change the bacterial profile and flavor" is what I'm talking about. Have you explored that at all?
This is exactly what i needed!! Being disabled, i have to use the fridge for my starter. Otherwise, its seems very active... like this afternoon, i pulled it from the fridge to let it warm up to room temp, otherwise my arms and hands cramp & extra painful. But just pulling it out, doing nothing to it, just set it down and forgot about it. 🙄😳😬 before bed i remembered, of course🤦♀️, and my guy had almost doubled 😊 But, i had noticed yesterday when looking at them (a friend & i exchanged buts of starter.. that's another question, when feeding them the same, but not mixing with each other.. but, do they just become the same? They still smell differently. And we're in the process of moving, so normally i have my mix of what i feed mine, but being stuck at the place we're moving from, when i ran out ofbwhat i brought, just has to use the same flour for both that we had to buy. So, will they really keep their own flavors then, or does it just become the same as mine, and i don't need to keep 2? Just curious 😊) Anyway... ive never had hooch, well... maaaaybe a tiny bit of maybe looser water on top, but even though they'd definitely smell ripe and needing some refreshments, not usually too bad. Yesterday was the first time in a year that i knew right away something was off.. 1. mine never drops super fast like this one did. 2. The smell was STRONG!!! Even with a heavy feed, i didn't smell flour like normal. I still smelled the sharp smell. So i fed again, but now I'll do so again in the morning and so on. Maybe, until done moving, do a real small starter, im not sure why that makes me SO nervous 😊🙄🤦♀️😬 but, small jars, small clean up and my body can't do too much. But, even having them out always to really get strengthen it up, in a small jar its would be working with like a couple tbls... i could do that in a couple mins while making tea....hmmmmm🤔 Regardless, great video and i look forward to looking through others! I love seeing the paperwork or even screenshot... my memory is junk.. so, even though i just make stuff for hubby n me since no kids at home😊 but, i find it all interesting, except the full math part... that i love having written examples i can go with... math makes what little brains i have left just leak out ny ears right away, can feel it😂😊 Thanks again!!!
Your videos are very informative, thank you! Is there a difference if your starter is new? I started mine from scratch about 8 weeks ago and I never see this type of information differentiated for early stages of starters.
Holy COW! Pun intended! You are simply the best….funny and complete run down of solutions to many of my issues. Thank you so much! I love the science side of this. You really explained this well. Cheers!
Hi! great video. I have a question regarding the identification of the peak. From the video (around 14:45 ) I can see the dome of the sourdough rising and then falling multiple times. Would you say that this is the peak? I mean, should I wait that it completely gets flat or should I consider the peak the moment it starts to do this "up/down", as in the video? I hope my comment was clear enough and thanks for the eventual answer :)
I measure the peak as the first time it flattens and stops (or pauses) rising. Sometimes there is a second peak, but for my purposes I always go by the first one for consistency in my experiments.
Talking about the temperature effect, i have a hard time to determine if my dough is ready to be baked, when I put the dough in the fridge for cool fermentation. The poke test don’t tell me much, the dough is stiff especially the surface. I just heard you saying that the cold compress the gas. So how can I know if my dough is fermented enough?
The poke test is only reliable for shaped dough at room temperature. It doesn’t work on cold dough. When you do a cold retard in the fridge, the final proofing of the loaf is essential locked in based on how much the dough ferments on bulk fermentation. One it goes into the fridge it is essentially on “autopilot” as the fridge temp goes down. Once the dough gets down to fridge temp (about 8-10 hours) you can proof it “more” by extending the time in the fridge (unless you extend it by days). So you need to get bulk fermentation right, then the fridge portion takes care of itself. Here’s a helpful video. The SECRET of Bulk Fermentation: Measuring Dough Temperature and % Rise - The Two-Factor Method ua-cam.com/video/p69UMuYJhJs/v-deo.html
Is this ever needed for new starter? I have 2 jars of starter that originated from the same source (60g organic unbleached flour & 60g filtered water). On day 9, I kept 60g discard and started a new jar (experimenting) and to that I substituted 10g organic unbleached with 10g with rye flour. Been feeding that one 10g rye since I started it. The partial rye flour starter is doing better than my original but it takes about 10 hours to almost (very close!) double. Any advice you have will be greatly appreciated!
As a backup I air dried (At 30C in a food dehydrator) some freshly bubbly starter and crumbled it in a mixer. Storage in a deepfreezer at -25C. Dp you have experience with this?
Great information Tom! Thank you! You Sir, indeed, should have been working at Nasa!😆 Just recently I'd come across the Detmolder two( and three) stage builds. The one on youtube (a professional baker presents it), the first build is with 5% starter and 70% hydration, with rye flour, at 75F for 12 to 16 hrs. The second build goes at 85% carryover starter, with 100% hydration, at 90F for 3-4 hrs. This is obviously too hot from what you've said? Also, Hamelman talks about the 3 phase Detmolder rye method in his excellent book, "Bread." I think, de-acidification, and building natural yeast is the goal of Detmolder methods.
Organic white flour,sprouted wheat,sprouted spell,sprouted millet,sprouted barley,sprouted navy bean,sprouted green lentil,grounded flax seeds,sesame seeds,chia seeds,sun flower seeds,wheat germ,pumpkin seeds,Whole Husk Psyllium. salt whole wheat starter.Filtered water. Seeds are lightly sprinkled in the flour,like psyllium husk,chia@@thesourdoughjourney
So much good content, it might be time for you to create a curriculum on your website for the Institute! Seriously. Quick question: is it a good idea to try to find a higher feeding ratio such that my 24 hour feeding schedule is as close to peak to peak as possible, so I am always in peak to peak mode, thus avoiding excess acid buildup in the first place? I'm thinking there is going to be an unforeseen downside to this (in the zero sum sourdough game)
Thanks! It’s easier to control the temperature. Cool starter will peak more slowly. But if you can’t cool it down, then use very high feeding ratios. No downside to that. I often do 1:10:10 with just 5g of carryover starter.
Hi Tom!!! My 30 day old starter is still taking 8-9 hours to peak at 75-77 degrees, feeding at 1:2:2 every 24hrs (increased to 1:3:3 yesterday). Smells of vodka/acetone by feeding time with lots of pinpoint bubbles. I planned to stay that course until this video - would you recommend one of these methods for my situation? Or is mine perhaps too young for an intervention? I love love your content - I’ve been “studying” on your channel this last month while waiting for my starter to become bake-worthy and can’t wait to put all of this information into practice!!
Dough acidity is so common that this class should be "a must" for everyone that is a beginner.
Thank you so much for this video; you are awesome!
Thank you!
You must have at least ONE degree in education?!? If not, you are a natural born teacher. And, I say this as a retired educator of 28 years! All jokes aside, you ARE the UA-cam king of sourdough education! Thank you for all you do!
Thank you. I have no formal training in education, but I have always loved learning and teaching. I come from a family of teachers. My mother was, and most of my siblings are teachers.
I also do the vast majority of these videos completely unscripted. Sometimes I’ll have one page of notes, but often nothing written down when I start.
@@thesourdoughjourneywhat’s your education background?
@@thesourdoughjourney Wow ....amazing dialog without a script!
Tom, you really need to make a sourdough book, it would be a great seller! I learn more from you than any sourdough book I have purchased. Thank you!!
Thank you. I’m still working on content with these videos and my website.
I’d definitely purchase a copy!
I have a sluggish homemade starter that seems to very slowly peak, have small bubbles, give off that "vinegar" smell and seems to overferment/overproof my dough into something stickier during shaping than when I finish my stretch and folds. This is EXACTLY the video I needed----had to comment before I even finished the video because the timing was SO APT. Thank you so much for all of your knowledge!!!! You ROCK.
Thank you! 🙏
This man deserves a hundred thousand of subscribers
Thank you! 🙏
Thanks Tom. You probably saved a lot of people from dumping out their starter and running to the store to buy yeast. Your video displays your knowledge of sourdough, how to fix your starter, and a entertaining delivery which made it easy to understand what an acidic starter is.
Thank you. I appreciate the feedback.
From all of us visual learners, THANK YOU again for your demos combined with clear descriptions - you stand alone in the field of sourdough teachers! (Like a cow, not a dinosaur)
Thank you! 🙏
I wanted to express my heartfelt gratitude for the incredible videos you've shared. For months, I struggled to perfect my sourdough bread, trying various methods without much success. Then, I came across your videos, and everything changed. Your clear instructions and insightful tips made all the difference. Your dedication and generosity in sharing your knowledge do not go unnoticed. Thank you so much for helping me achieve something I once thought was out of reach.
Thank you 🙏
This must be the most important video for home bakers that came out from the Institute in Cleveland...!!It has put together all the answers that a medium-advanced level home baker like myself wanted to get for a lot of problems and questions about my baking life...!Well done.....!
Thank you!
Thanks, once again, for the science. I keep my starter refrigerated & TRY to refresh once a week. The day before I want to bake, I do 2 peak to peak feedings, refrigerate overnight, feed again & I'm ready to bake. Now I understand why this works for me. Looking forward to your upcoming refrigerator maintenance.
Thanks! 🙏
I've been using instant yeast for a while, always afraid to try nurturing a sourdough starter and I've finally taken the leap about a week and a half ago.
I'm happy to report that I have a healthy starter after 10 days and I was able to catch the peak for my first mini baguette batch.
With your example using cows and acid spitting dinosaurs, my mind is reminded to care for the cows.
Save the cows everyone!
Anyway, thank you for sharing your knowledge, findings and spending time laying things out for anyone interested in the topic 🙏
Happy sourdough baking!
Thank you!
The NASA part. That cracked me up! Great comic relief in a super education video. Thank you!
Thank you!🙏
To all viewers… DO NOT MISS THE DEMONSTRATION OF STATER BEHAVIOR!
I’ve been baking sourdough bread for about 4 years. After watching this video my knowledge doubled!
Thank you for the feedback.
Brilliant video! By far the best explanation I've seen anywhere.
And the cows & acid-spitting velociraptors were a great (not to mention entertaining) analogy.
Thank you so much.
That demo was worth its weight in gold! I thought you said overfeeding was bad, too. I'm pretty sure it was in the starter video (or series, somewhere in there). I LOVE this video, and it cracked my twelve-year-old grandson up so much to see that barnyard demo. This is awesome - awesome - awesome! Thank you so much, Tom! :) Please, keep up the good lab work! Love your sense of humor.
Thanks! Overfeeding is bad only if you discard and refeed before the starter peaks.
Wow ...wow... wow such a concise and precise explanations with fun demonstrations to the feeding cycle for sourdough baking. The explanations are at its best that even beginners like me can comprehend with better understanding through your generous sharing and commitment to sourdough baking. Thank you for your videos and experiments, commitment and dedication for all sourdough bakers especially those who are intimidated by sourdough bread making. Thank you...! All your videos are so well thought of and presented. Living in a tropical country your insight to double bulk fermentation helped me in baking a beautiful loaf. I couldn't have done it without your great explanation! Looking forward to more videos
Thank you!
This was EXACTLY the information I’ve been looking for. Thank you so much!!
Glad it was helpful!
@@thesourdoughjourney There isn’t much information available (and I do quite a bit of research) that clarifies how the variables affect the starter that isn’t used everyday/very regularly. Please continue helping us home bakers!
I just want to say that this happens in microbakeries too. Yesterday, I had to throw kilos of dough in the compost because by the time the dough had hit the percentage rise I was looking for, it had completely liquified 🥲. I feed my starter two times a day, but I guess I haven’t being paying attention to what it was telling me and I paid the price for it 😄 Thank you so much for your videos! I’ve been baking sourdough since 2016 and I never felt I fully got it in a way that made sense until I found your videos. About 6 months ago, I decided to follow my passion and opened my own sourdough microbakery. Even though your videos are targeted more towards home bakers, I still find the information you share to be extremely valuable.
Thank you! I appreciate the feedback.
What a nice comment 💞
Great Video! Watching your videos, I have gone from bricks, to pancakes, to pretty darn good sourdough loaves with 6.5 hours BF. I couldn't have done it without you and your wonderful experiments, all of which I have watched multiple times. Many thanks!
Thank you!🙏
I have watched several videos and read so many articles and you’re the first person who described how to fix this problem clearly and thoroughly ❤❤
Thank you.
I was looking for reviews of Ben Starr's sourdough bread recipe for lazy people, because I had tried it and managed to also fail with this supposedly foolproof method. Found your website with the review and then got hooked because your explanations are really great and comprehensive.
Thanks!
I finally understand what is happening to my starter that always produces a densed and gummy loaf. Living in a tropical country, it is harder to keep the starter at the desired temperatures.
Thank you 🙏
Loved the barnyard tragedy. LOL. Effective way of explaining what happens during the fermentation lifecycle. I followed your advice and did a 1010 feeding of my acidic starter and within seven hours I'm back up and running with a very bubbly and thick active starter. Great videos. Your sense of humor keeps it entertaining.
Thank you! 🙏
I started uh, well, a starter, beginning of this year following an artisan SD book's instruction. After so many days the starter recipe dropped using whole grains. I dumped it and started following another book. That starter also struggled a bit but I think it was due to the whole timing issue of 24 hrs. in a day (starters don't wear watches). I switched to your advice and fed my starter just after peak. I listened/observed my starter for when she said, "Please sir, may I have some more?"
This was a month old, weak starter and soon it changed to an overflowing mess on my counter regularly so I had to rethink my starter size vs. container vol.
It's nice to not worry about the starter and just focus on the rest of the dough recipe. My loaves look great and I'm getting good compliments after doing the work.
Thanks Tom.
Thanks.
Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge! I find your videos very helpful. You address and answer questions about so many issues!
You are so welcome!🙏
Like a lot of things, I put fixing the real problem (acidity) off until last. Inconsistent starter rise times, sluggish levain, no strength in shaped dough, and no proof. Every word of this video is gold...it should have been the first thing I watched/learned. Thank you! I had previously been doing 1:1:1 feedings, but basically getting dough that wouldn't rise/proof. Super smooth, but zero strength (puddle). I'm convinced now it's acidity.
I'm doing a few peak to peaks to get a feel for shortening times and then will be gradually switching to something like 1:5:5 - which I'm hoping is a great balance of strength ratio and convenience (~12hr peak). If I understand correctly... if I'm good with the time a 1:5:5 takes to peak/cycle, there's no quality difference between that and a 1:1:1 (or a 1: 50:50 for that matter). It's just quantity of starter (and waste) and the cycle duration.
That is correct.
Seriously, NO ONE on this platform can impart so much knowledge about sourdough than YOU! I’ll be rewatching several videos in your series tomorrow. Thank you IMMENSELY!!!! 😊
Thank you! 🙏
@@thesourdoughjourneyQuestion: Your guide and video mentions keeping the starter warmer Day 4 and onward. I noticed your starter ranged from 77-79 degrees while filming. At what point in building a starter do you keep your starter at 74 degrees? I ask because the guide refers to a starter peaking at 74 degrees between 4 and 6 hrs consistently is ready to be used in baking. Thank you!
77-79 is ideal, but uncommon for many people. I use 74 as a benchmark because that is a more typical “room temperature” for most.
I found out my starter I'd been struggling with for weeks to get going was acidic thanks to your videos...she's finally ALIVE!! lol Thank you for your content!!
Thank you! 🙏
This tutorial did help!!! I definitely started seeing results using your methods. This most recent trial I had enough to make two loaves. I didn't want to waste it, so started it last night. Put in the fridge over night and half of the am. Just pulled them out of the oven. Patience is definitely key!!!! To fully get the starter up and running it took at least a month. And some nights I'd just let it sit. Thank you again!
Thanks! Good luck.
I was discarding in order to feed my starter for a following day bake. I knocked over the straight-from-the-fridge, liquidy jar and, easily, 60-70% of it went EVERYWHERE! The jar was nearly empty, but I did my usual 1:1:1 feeding, no way it was ready for next day baking. I wish I’d known about drastically increasing the feeding ratio back then.
Hoping it won’t happen again (it was the devil to clean up!)but, if something like that happens again, I’ll handle it better.
Thank you!
Thanks.
This afternoon I took my first ever sourdough loaf out of the oven. whoa - boy did i make SOURdough bread. I've been enjoying your various videos and am SO glad you made this one! I honestly laughed out loud when the cows got some vinegar in their water.(and at your NASA apron confession). Anyway - THANK YOU for making this Journey (or in my case, Adventure) so interesting and entertaining! Peak-to-peak here I go!
Thanks. Good luck!
Appreciate the work you put into this and giving us novices valuable info….I know I really needed this as I believe my starters need to be strengthened! Thank You
Thanks! 🙏
You have no idea how helpful these videos are. Im so profoundly grateful for your knowledge, willingness to share this as well as your TIME. Thank you.🙏❤️
Thank you. 🙏
Really fantastic and informative video, thank you so much for the effort and time you put into it. I enjoy learning about the science behind what I'm doing, so I'm so glad I took the time to watch this. I was always confused by people's descriptions of starters being "sleepy" or needing to "wake them up", but I can see now that what it really comes down to is the acidity. I had many lightbulb moments here, including with your explanation of the effect of temperature on the protease. Living in Australia, where my kitchen has been averaging 29C in recent weeks, I have a new appreciation for why my sourdoughs seem to be breaking down so quickly. As a side note, it was interesting hearing you mention that keeping a starter in the fridge can make it hard to see when it has peaked. I keep a 100% hydration rye starter that very visibly doubles, peaks, and falls in the fridge. Perhaps an added advantage of a rye starter over normal bread flour. Thanks once again!
Thank you. 🙏
Yes, rye starters behave a little differently.
Thank you for caring and sharing!!! You are truly a blessing!!! This information was so valuable and helpful. Thanks once again!!!! May God continue to bless you and keep you safe and healthy. 🙌🏻🙏🏻🥳😇
Thank you.
Tom, you are a rock star!!! I finally understand what was happening to my starters (yes, PLURAL)! I couldn't get them to rise consistently, and I tossed them all. Finally bought some starter and after several days it was going the same way as the previously ones. I have now corrected my mistakes and look forward to maintaining a healthy, strong starter. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!
Thank you!
You are spot on. I did not want to feed my starter before peak so I waited to smell the vinegar to know I was after peak. To have enough starter to back with I just added a 1:1:1 mixture to my already vinegared starter and saw a huge decrease in the productivity - so much so it is probably not worth trying to bake with. Now I know why. THANKS!!
Thanks!
OMG! I believe that is the problem I have been having. Thank God I watched this video
Thank you so much for sharing it 🙏🏽
Thank you.
I was an ignorant about the starter and after two screwups I do it methodically and do my bulk fermentation in my proof box. At 10pm I prep the levain 1: 5 :5 so in the morning I can bake. From the levain jar I prep another levain 1:5:5 and when it raises a little bit I put it in the fridge for the next cycle. If I use 1:1: 1 feeding my levain become acidic and flat in few hours. As usual great presentation.
Thank you? 1:5:5 is a good ratio to keep the acidity down all the time.
Thank you! This is the most helpful video I have ever seen for sourdough starters.
Thanks. 🙏
So helpful! I was close to pitching my starter that I got off a friend and left in my fridge for a month. It’s DEFINITELY acidic and I now have a plan to help it get back to full health - thank you so much for helping me understand what’s going on with it, hugely helps. Also enjoyed the visual aid of the cows et al. Thank you so much, already you have given me more confidence!
Thanks. Good luck.
@@thesourdoughjourney it's started to rise!! After a couple of weeks of faffing and getting nowhere I woke up to progress!! All thanks to you!!! STOKED. Thank you for helping me not pitch it!!
Ive been doing small experiments since starting my sourdough journey. Even got my kiddos in on them. Its been fun but sometimes i just want to know why right now. You have just made my day and im loving the videos.
Thanks!
As a new SD Baker this video just explained all my SD bread disasters.thank you..a new starter is required,!
Thanks.
Thank you so much for this video, Tom, and for your many responses on Facebook to my questions and to those of others. They have been invaluable!
This video saved my starter. It's a very full-flavored starter, developed by a friend. People love the flavor. I've tried other starters in the same recipe and they just aren't the same in flavor or behavior in the dough. Thanks again for teaching me how to save this very tasty starter.
Thanks! 🙏
I have a starter from your instructions. But due to my work and home life I have an acidic starter. I am headed in the right direction. Thank you for your research and information!!!!
Thanks. Good luck.
This is sooooo helpful!!! I knew my starter was too acidic and my new 1-5-5- was at peak in 6 hours, but I plan to continue strengthening it and checking the ph until I get it to a reasonable 4ish level. It started at like 3.91 and that was way acidic. Very helpful!!! Thank you I like the explanations, the demonstrations and the long videos. I feel sorry for the cows, though!
Thanks. 🙏
Dude, your Romulus/Remus Joseph Campbell comment… you have a devoted follower now. I would love to hang out with you for a week and just talk. Amazing.
Thank you. I’m glad someone got it. 😆
I try to throw a few of those in each video.
I think I never found a more detailed, and yet fun, esplicative video about sourdough starter 😂😂
Thank you very much! This was very helpful! 🙏🏽
Thank you.
This was a Masterpiece. It is also timely as I have been trying to bring my just purchased 'starter' up to active duty.
Thank you!
Wow! I watched this video at the perfect time. You covered every single question I had gone through in the past 2 weeks! I’ve been struggling not knowing what was going on. Thank you for this information you are amazing and I look forward to watching more of your videos. You got a new follower!
Thanks! 🙏
It's a fantastic video. You're a good teacher. Thank you so much. I'm a beginner sourdough baker and I only bake once a week and keeping the starter in the fridge is not as easy as it seems. I'm looking forward to your refrigerator maintenance method video.
Thanks.
Wow, what a great teacher you are! I learned a lot about how the sourdough starter functions through different stages. Excellent presentation, thank you so much!
Thank you.
Your channel is a treasure!❤ I am so new to the sourdough, I would watch your episode a 1000 times to understand every detail in your video! I love there are always science related to the topic! Thank you for doing the hard work! ❤
Thank you for the feedback!
Tom, thank you for the invaluable insights you share on sourdough baking. Your videos have been incredibly educational for me. I have a few questions:
1. Regarding sourdough starter, could we increase the percentage of starter in the recipe by using all the water for the feeding (1:1:1), then adding the remaining flour to adjust the final hydration of the dough? Basically using higher sourdough stater, like more than 50%.
2. I've been making Neapolitan-style pizza with sourdough, and achieving a strong gluten network is crucial for stretching the dough without tearing. Considering the acidity of sourdough can weaken gluten, would you suggest adding a small amount of baking powder to counterbalance this effect? Sometimes, during a 48-hour cold fermentation, I encounter issues (thanks to your insights I know why now 😀) with flat, weak, and tearing pizza dough. Would baking powder help in such cases?
3. In your video "The SECRET of Bulk Fermentation: Measuring Dough Temperature and % Rise - The Two-Factor Method," when would you recommend shaping the pizza balls? Should we complete bulk fermentation to 100% and then shape the balls for final proofing? Or is it better to shape them before bulk fermentation and treat each individual ball separately during bulk fermentation?
Thank you! 1. When you exceed about 35% starter on your dough, the acidity and weak gluten from the fermented starter begins to break down the dough structure too quickly.
2. I’ve not tried adding baking powder to reduce the acidity. I’ve not heard of any sourdough bakers trying it. The science seems to indicate it would help, but I’m skeptical only because I’ve never heard of anyone doing it.
3. I would shape the balls after bulk fermentation.
Thank you so much for this! I’m just starting my sourdough journey. You’ve helped me so much!!!!!
Thanks.
Oh my goodness. Now I know what's been wrong with my effects to make sourdough bread which always ends up in a bread tin as it seems to be going well then the final shaping ends in a frisbee like dough pat! This now makes sense to me what is wrong and what I need to do next time. Thank you so much you sourdough genius 👌🇬🇧
Thank you. 🙏
Such a great topic, no one else talks about. I think that's what has been wrong with my starter. I hope to have a healthy thriving starter soon.
Thanks! Good luck. 👍
Thank you so much for all the education you share so generously with all of us!! This video was tremendously helpful in troubleshooting the issues my 3 year old starter “Fred” has been having. I decided to try the high ratio feeding method to aggressively de-acidify Fred. It has been sitting out now for almost 48 hours in a 72 degree kitchen and it has not peaked, it has risen about 1/2 inch, no dome, lots of tiny bubbles… It started out smelling nice and sweet, now I’m starting to smell the acid buildup again. What should I do? Just hang in there and wait for the peak, then feed? Or do I intervene now before it gets too acidic again? Gah!
I always wait for peak.
Amazing!! Incredibly helpful presentation, and hilarious!
Thank you.
Thank you most patiently gracious teacher for this remedial video for those of us who just can’t get a successful starter experience ❤
Thank you. 🙏
Thank you so much, Tom! You released another video full of valuable information (and fun!) and easy to understand. I highly appreciate all the work and research that you put behind all your videos.
I have currently some problems with my starter and I wanted to send you some photos and ask what could be wrong. But now I think I know what it is wrong! Acidity...
You can email me at thesourdoughjourney@yahoo.com
Thanks a lot, Tom! I will!
Now I will give it a few peak-to-peak feeds 1:2:2.
Best explanation ever of the sourdough starter microbiome! 😊
Thank you!
Thank you for such an informative video!!! It explains perfectly what is going on with my starter at the moment. Loved the acid spitting dinosaur analogy!
Thanks!
This video was fantastic. No one ever explained as well as you Tom. Thank you so much.
Thanks you.
Brilliant. One of the best starter videos I’ve seen. And just what I needed - time to reinvigorate “Charlie”. Thank you Tom.
thank you! 🙏
Tom, I should have known you would have the answer I needed. This video is amazing and I learned how to strengthen my starter AND how to keep it strong from now on. I had pretty good results when I first started baking but recently the dough was gummy and didn't rise as well. I was about ready to give up and you saved me. Thank you. I am also very sorry your job at NASA didn't work out! This video made me laugh out loud (not all the way through, just the appropriate parts!). Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Take care, Anna
Thank you. 🙏
Congratulations Tom…this video is one of your best if not the best!!! You put so much work behind and the explanations you give are spot on! I am very much looking forward to a book you will publish hopefully soon. Greetings from Greece.
Thank you!
I laughed so hard at how you described the velociraptor 😂
Haha, thanks
The barnyard example was hilarious and a great visual. Love your content!!
Thank you.
Great video, Tom! Can you comment on what is happening when people post that they made a gorgeous fluffy high standing loaf of sourdough from starving starter? Like starter that's been in the fridge for 4 weeks without being fed and then they just take it out and use it in their bread recipe without feeding it? Your explanation of what happens at each stage of the starters process is always so logical. The yeast is most active at peak, and it makes sense that this would be the time you would want to use your starter in a recipe. But these people who use starving starter (And I've done it effectively myself when I've been desperate to make a loaf and forgot to create the levain) really blow my mind! I mean, it makes sense because when you mix your dough, you are effectively giving the starter a giant feeding with all the flower you use, right? It does take longer but it's still rises the dough pretty well. Sometimes exactly the same effectiveness as starter that is used when it's at its peak. So I really would love to understand what the argument is to create the levain in the first place. Is the idea that eventually that starter will become too acidic or are there other reasons?
You can use an unfed starter, but that doesn’t mean you should.
The results are very inconsistent depending how long it has been since it was last fed, and some other factors.
It’s hard to say without knowing the specifics of each case, but a few things I’ve seen with my tests:
You can use a refrigerated starter for about one week after its last feeding, with pretty good results.
The results go downhill after that.
An unfed starter works best in dough at lower percentages (10% starter versus 20%, for example), and it works best at low dough temps (70F versus 80%)l. Lastly, it works better at lower hydration (70%) versus high (80%).
If I used 20%, 2-week unfed starter in 80F dough with 78% hydration it would be a disaster. If I use 10% in 68F dough at 70% hydration, it will make a decent loaf.
@@thesourdoughjourney Very helpful ....thank you!
Thanks for the helpful video! You put so much effort in it. Thanks for that! I have two questions, because I find it a bit confusing when I heard it.
1. You talked about the peak-to-peak method and mentioned, that you take out the acidic starter from the fridge and feed it in a 1:2:2 ratio. But in the high feeding ratio section you mentioned that this ratio is not so good for acidic starters, because you take all the acidity with you to the next starter. How does that fit?
2. We talk about peak times of 4 hours, but besides temperature this is highly dependent on the ratio, isn't it? So when you use a 1:2:2 ratio it would develop much faster in comparison to a 1:10:10 ratio, does it?
I knew that part could be confusing, but I think you have it backwards. High feeding ratios carry over very little existing starter, so they sometimes can knock down the acidity in one or two feedings. That's why I recommend it first.
If that doesn't work, then I recommend the peak to peak method, but if you do the peak to peak method with high feeding ratios, it strettch out the time to much and it's difficult to monitor the starter to catch it at peak. So I am recommending a "suboptimal" lower feeding ratio (1:2:2), so you can get more feedings in during the day or in a short period of time. It is purely a scheduling convenience. If you had a lab team monitoring and feeding your starter 24/7 , then you would do peak to peak with 1:5:5. But if you need to work, sleep, etc, you can get more 1:2:2 feedings in and it has the same outcome in the end.
On topic, I was afraid of leaving my starter in the fridge unattended for an upcoming trip and decided to put it in the fridge as a test run. I put it in right after feeding it. Three days later I took it out and placed it on my counter and it doubled by the morning of the next day. It is more lively than before I put it in. Before, I had to keep it in a yogurt maker to keep it around 75° F. Now it's doubling daily at 65°F-68°F. I believe it has strengthened because of letting it rest in the fridge.
Yes, some starters come out of the fridge very strong.
please dont stop making videos, I am waiting for pan de crystal analysis
Thank you.
Wow Tom! I loved it! I bake once a week. I feed my starter right after using it in the dough at 20:30:30 and put it in the fridge. The day before making the next dough I take it out in the afternoon, at around 10pm I feed it 20 (or 30):160:160 and in the morning it’s ready to be used in a dough. I never paid attention to the acidity in the starter. I will from now and do maintenance (as much as I can) thank you again for these videos!
Thank you. Your method is similar to mine. It is probably working fine; but may benefit from a discard and feeding before making the leaven at night. But if it’s working, don’t change anything!
@@thesourdoughjourney I’m going to make dough tomorrow. I took my dough out now and will do one peak feeding before the final feeding (at peak) overnight.
Pterodactyl coming in hot!😂 Never knew that learning about sourdough starter can be this fun!
Thanks! 🙏
Hi Tom, If your house is colder and it takes your starter longer to rise would we still use the peaking around 4-6 hour method to determine if it’s ready to bake?
The 4-6 hour guidance is based on 73F/22C room temp. Cooler temps will take longer to peak.
This is exactly my problem, thank you so much for this video!!!
Thank you.
This information has been incredibly helpful!
Thank you.
This was SO helpful, thank you!! Quick question - for an established starter, should it be at peak within the 4-6 hours, or doubled by that time? I am needing to work on mine. It is more than doubling within the 4-6 hours, but will continue to rise for hours after that, very slowly but still going. Often times I am thinking it has peaked, I will use it in a recipe and watch it keep rising well after I used it. I am also smelling a strong acidic smell today so I hopped on your channel to see how to fix it. I will be practicing the high feeding ratio. I missed two days of feedings on my countertop oops!!
I don’t make a big distinction between doubling and peaking because some people starters will more than double, and some peak multiple times. I’d say the 4-6 hour guidance is for “the initial peak” and “roughly double,” but I don’t worry too much about a specific measurement. Every starter is a unique biological colony.
For the high feeding ratio of 1:5:5, can you do that a second time to strengthen your starter? Or do you recommend doing 1:2:2 after? I did my first 1:5:5 ratio last night and it smells a lot better 12 hours later and is still rising
You can do consecutive 1:5:5s.
Thank you so much for the wonderfully informative video. I just started following you on IG. I was pleasantly surprised to hear you say you’re in Cleveland cuz we’re in Medina. 😃 This is exactly what’s happening to my starter and now I know how to fix it.
Thank you! 🙏
Thank you so much! This is exactly what I needed. Noticed your spiffy Hedley & Bennett apron instantly.
Thank you. It is a lovely apron.
Thanks Tom! I needed this so much! Acidity issues are exactly what I thought was sabotaging me, but I wasn't sure how to remedy!!
What do you think about letting whats left of my starter after use, dry out in the jar? Then reconstitute it a day or two before I need it again???
Thanks for all your hard work!!
Some people do that. Look up the “scrapings method” on Bake with Jack channel on UA-cam.
Sir, thank you very much for the effort and passion you have put into this channel! You have taken me to a whole new level, THANK YOU and please keep going. Just a side note, if you have time, please make a video on your absolute favorite recipe for one loaf that you think is the best. No science, just the recipe. I ask because it was difficult for me to find the recipe in your content. Also, have you ever experimented with baking the Borodinsky bread? Thank you and please keep exploring.
Thank you. No science here, but a little comedy. But a very simple method.
NEW!: The Sourdough Brothers: Sourdough for Busy People
ua-cam.com/video/M8SiQJzFrrw/v-deo.html
Thanks so much for this! This is what we needed for the problem we had and did not know lol.
Thanks. Good luck.
you got me at the NASA apron lol, thanks for making the video so informative, despite the length (yeah I'm a lazy student), I did enjoy all of It, especially the cow demo
Thank you. 🙏
Tom, excellent video as always!
So, what research have you done on starter storage temperatures and their impact on flavor? I've read that storing your starter at 55F optimizes the balance of the microorganisms to achieve maximum flavor.
I don’t do a lot of flavor related experiments because flavor is subjective.
I’ve heard and seen a lot of conflicting information and I can’t really advise one way or another. Every starter has a different flavor profile. Some prefer warmer temps, some cooler. But maintaining your starter consistently at warmer or cooler temps can change the bacterial profile and flavor.
Day to day temperature changes don’t do much of anything.
@@thesourdoughjourney Ah, you nailed it "Maintaining your starter consistently at warmer or cooler temps can change the bacterial profile and flavor" is what I'm talking about. Have you explored that at all?
This is exactly what i needed!! Being disabled, i have to use the fridge for my starter. Otherwise, its seems very active... like this afternoon, i pulled it from the fridge to let it warm up to room temp, otherwise my arms and hands cramp & extra painful. But just pulling it out, doing nothing to it, just set it down and forgot about it. 🙄😳😬 before bed i remembered, of course🤦♀️, and my guy had almost doubled 😊
But, i had noticed yesterday when looking at them (a friend & i exchanged buts of starter.. that's another question, when feeding them the same, but not mixing with each other.. but, do they just become the same? They still smell differently. And we're in the process of moving, so normally i have my mix of what i feed mine, but being stuck at the place we're moving from, when i ran out ofbwhat i brought, just has to use the same flour for both that we had to buy. So, will they really keep their own flavors then, or does it just become the same as mine, and i don't need to keep 2? Just curious 😊)
Anyway... ive never had hooch, well... maaaaybe a tiny bit of maybe looser water on top, but even though they'd definitely smell ripe and needing some refreshments, not usually too bad. Yesterday was the first time in a year that i knew right away something was off.. 1. mine never drops super fast like this one did. 2. The smell was STRONG!!! Even with a heavy feed, i didn't smell flour like normal. I still smelled the sharp smell.
So i fed again, but now I'll do so again in the morning and so on. Maybe, until done moving, do a real small starter, im not sure why that makes me SO nervous 😊🙄🤦♀️😬 but, small jars, small clean up and my body can't do too much. But, even having them out always to really get strengthen it up, in a small jar its would be working with like a couple tbls... i could do that in a couple mins while making tea....hmmmmm🤔
Regardless, great video and i look forward to looking through others! I love seeing the paperwork or even screenshot... my memory is junk.. so, even though i just make stuff for hubby n me since no kids at home😊 but, i find it all interesting, except the full math part... that i love having written examples i can go with... math makes what little brains i have left just leak out ny ears right away, can feel it😂😊
Thanks again!!!
Great video learnt alot ! You have wonderful visuals that really explain things so thanks for this ....always excited to watch your videos ! 😊
Thank you!🙏
Your videos are very informative, thank you! Is there a difference if your starter is new? I started mine from scratch about 8 weeks ago and I never see this type of information differentiated for early stages of starters.
This issue is more common with mature starters.
Holy COW! Pun intended! You are simply the best….funny and complete run down of solutions to many of my issues. Thank you so much! I love the science side of this. You really explained this well. Cheers!
Thank you! 🙏
Hi! great video. I have a question regarding the identification of the peak. From the video (around 14:45 ) I can see the dome of the sourdough rising and then falling multiple times. Would you say that this is the peak? I mean, should I wait that it completely gets flat or should I consider the peak the moment it starts to do this "up/down", as in the video? I hope my comment was clear enough and thanks for the eventual answer :)
I measure the peak as the first time it flattens and stops (or pauses) rising. Sometimes there is a second peak, but for my purposes I always go by the first one for consistency in my experiments.
Thanks @@thesourdoughjourney
Thank you very much! It was tough to sit through this movie but it was definitely worth it!
Thank you. 🙏
Talking about the temperature effect, i have a hard time to determine if my dough is ready to be baked, when I put the dough in the fridge for cool fermentation. The poke test don’t tell me much, the dough is stiff especially the surface. I just heard you saying that the cold compress the gas. So how can I know if my dough is fermented enough?
The poke test is only reliable for shaped dough at room temperature. It doesn’t work on cold dough.
When you do a cold retard in the fridge, the final proofing of the loaf is essential locked in based on how much the dough ferments on bulk fermentation. One it goes into the fridge it is essentially on “autopilot” as the fridge temp goes down. Once the dough gets down to fridge temp (about 8-10 hours) you can proof it “more” by extending the time in the fridge (unless you extend it by days). So you need to get bulk fermentation right, then the fridge portion takes care of itself.
Here’s a helpful video. The SECRET of Bulk Fermentation: Measuring Dough Temperature and % Rise - The Two-Factor Method
ua-cam.com/video/p69UMuYJhJs/v-deo.html
Is this ever needed for new starter? I have 2 jars of starter that originated from the same source (60g organic unbleached flour & 60g filtered water). On day 9, I kept 60g discard and started a new jar (experimenting) and to that I substituted 10g organic unbleached with 10g with rye flour. Been feeding that one 10g rye since I started it. The partial rye flour starter is doing better than my original but it takes about 10 hours to almost (very close!) double. Any advice you have will be greatly appreciated!
Not usually. New starters usually need more time between feedings, not less. Try mixing a drier mix (5-10g less water).
As a backup I air dried (At 30C in a food dehydrator) some freshly bubbly starter and crumbled it in a mixer. Storage in a deepfreezer at -25C. Dp you have experience with this?
Yes, that is a good idea.
Great information Tom! Thank you! You Sir, indeed, should have been working at Nasa!😆 Just recently I'd come across the Detmolder two( and three) stage builds. The one on youtube (a professional baker presents it), the first build is with 5% starter and 70% hydration, with rye flour, at 75F for 12 to 16 hrs. The second build goes at 85% carryover starter, with 100% hydration, at 90F for 3-4 hrs. This is obviously too hot from what you've said? Also, Hamelman talks about the 3 phase Detmolder rye method in his excellent book, "Bread." I think, de-acidification, and building natural yeast is the goal of Detmolder methods.
Thank you Barry. I will look into that method.
Your the best Tom there is and the best that ever will be!
Thank you so much. 😊
Organic white flour,sprouted wheat,sprouted spell,sprouted millet,sprouted barley,sprouted navy bean,sprouted green lentil,grounded flax seeds,sesame seeds,chia seeds,sun flower seeds,wheat germ,pumpkin seeds,Whole Husk Psyllium. salt whole wheat starter.Filtered water.
Seeds are lightly sprinkled in the flour,like psyllium husk,chia@@thesourdoughjourney
So much good content, it might be time for you to create a curriculum on your website for the Institute! Seriously. Quick question: is it a good idea to try to find a higher feeding ratio such that my 24 hour feeding schedule is as close to peak to peak as possible, so I am always in peak to peak mode, thus avoiding excess acid buildup in the first place? I'm thinking there is going to be an unforeseen downside to this (in the zero sum sourdough game)
Thanks! It’s easier to control the temperature. Cool starter will peak more slowly. But if you can’t cool it down, then use very high feeding ratios. No downside to that. I often do 1:10:10 with just 5g of carryover starter.
Hi Tom!!! My 30 day old starter is still taking 8-9 hours to peak at 75-77 degrees, feeding at 1:2:2 every 24hrs (increased to 1:3:3 yesterday). Smells of vodka/acetone by feeding time with lots of pinpoint bubbles. I planned to stay that course until this video - would you recommend one of these methods for my situation? Or is mine perhaps too young for an intervention?
I love love your content - I’ve been “studying” on your channel this last month while waiting for my starter to become bake-worthy and can’t wait to put all of this information into practice!!
Try a few feedings of 1:2:2 at 12 hours (assuming it is clearly past peak in 12 hours).