One thing to note with the Army Painter matte white air primer: last year they had a faulty batch that was causing people problems. If you email AP with the lot number on the bottle they can see if it was part of that batch and replace it for you free of charge.
I switched my primer to a brush on. Rattle cans made the primer too thick and caused cracking. With brush on I'm keeping my primer coat thin and not losing as much detail on the smaller mini's.
Thanks a lot for taking your time explaining and investigating on that issue. Watching the minis you painted, it seems that even with AP primer, with a heavy coat, some paints tend to crack. One has to be cautious using these paint. It's a real problem.
Thanks for taking the time to watch. I did get some cracking with the heavy coat but to be honest, at this point, I probably wont consciously make any change as to how I apply it when painting a more detailed paint job. I do not think I will be using the cheaper primer unless I spray a clear coat after priming. I will give them a go on some more detailed models next time.
Glad to hear you haven't had any issues. Im starting on a project with some small 32mm models so I think I will try a dry brush zenithal this time. Cheers for the heads up.
Thanks for putting together this video! I suspect the crazing has more to do with paint thickness than primer. This is not unique to Speedpaint; it's fairly common for thickly-applied acrylics to crack. Basically, the topmost layer forms a skin while the wet paint underneath is still drying. The layer of paint underneath pulls on that skin as it dries, leading to cracking. Despite how it looks, this is a paint and not a wash and needs to be applied accordingly (or so it seems). How am I personally going to deal with it? By applying multiple coats and letting them dry completely in between, making sure I wick away any pooled paint with a clean brush as I work.
There are multiple mechanisms that cause the cracking. But I think the thick application and the fast drying time of the paints are the real problem. Maybe some drying retarder might solve the problem? Its really annoying, that people are bashing on AP like that because of that issue. They wanted a faster drying time to prevent reactivation, this leads now to cracking after a heavy application. Work in lighter applications and everything is fine... I wonder how the competitors perform with such a heavy application and pooling in the creases of the cloak. I'm pretty sure they will crack, too...
good information. thanks for this. I have been using the 2.0 paints with no issues, but i use army painter black rattle can, and then a dry brush zenithal as base coats. they work great in that circumstance
I usually use a zenithal as a base as well and haven't had issues on actual models I've painted. I have been spending my time on painting these cloak for the comparison videos, so I am now looking forward to really trying the speedpaints out on some more intricate models in a more 'real world' situation.
Cheers. The ambient humidity was out of my control as well as temperature but as we know, both play a part in painting as well. It would be interesting to know how much they play a part.
@@upskillinglife I had serious cracking on a model today with 2.0, and it is quite humid outside. Didn't notice it especially in the house, but at the moment I can't figure out what else might have caused it.
Wow. Ok this is making me rethink my AP SP 2.0 purchase. I was ready to go all in with the complete set of 90 colours but I’m not going to do that now. I might look at the Vallejo express paints, but they only have 23 colours and it’s in limited supply in Canada. I’m not sure what I’ll do yet. Thanks for the detailed review!
Glad you learnt something from the video. I definitely created it just to answer some questions for myself and to show people so they can make their own decisions from it. I am glad if it saves you wasting any money. Personally I was happy with the version 1 and loved the idea of a much larger colour range (guessing that was the appeal to you) so was happy to pre-order the mega set. I am still happily using them on some more detailed models and have not had any issues … to date. So I am still finding them very usable but I am consciously using AP primer now though just to be safe.
I know it been a while, but I would second the recommendation for the Xpress colors. I've got a few and they don't have the cracking issues that speedpaints 2.0 can have. They aren't a heavily pigmented as Speedpaints, which makes them better suited for use over zenithal or slapchop, but can be used as a single coat over white, the shadows just won't quite be as dark as with speedpaint.
Real shame, fix one issue and create another. Less contrast than 1.0 as well. Great to those who can use them without issue but I will pass on these as well.
Speed Pains are not good alone. If you want to lay down a base coat that is a bit lighter than desired, then add speed paint after it works great. Large scale though? I doubt it would be useful at all.
I used that exact same rustoleum primer on plastic minis and after 24 hour dry time I had major cracking issues but on the back of the can it says it takes 5 to 7 days to fully bond to plastic and sure enough after 5 days of Ietting the primer dry i had no issues with cracking of any kind even when applying a very liberal amount of the 2.0 speedpaint and even the ones that cracked the worst on the 24 hour model were perfectly fine on the 5 day dry time models
Hey that's great, thanks! I will give this a try, on a chess set I am working on. I really wanted a speedy job, so a rattle can prime and speed paint finish will work great. Cheers. Great work actually reading the can instructions!!
Thanks for making this video! I have been looking for more commentary on this issue after having some cracking problems myself. The surface has to be quite matte for the paints to function properly which is definitely a concern. Has anyone else noticed that this problem is most pronounced in the blue range?
I painted a test model last night with an airbrushed zenithal of AP primers. I had cracking on that model, but only on the one color where I quickly applied multiple (thin) layers. I suspect waiting for it to fully dry between coats would have helped.
I think your right, you definitely need the speedpaints to dry fully before they get another coat. Out of interest, you don't remember what colour it was that cracked?
@@upskillinglife I just experienced cracking today with Battleship Grey. Second mini I painted with the new 2.0 set and it cracked pretty much everywhere I used that colour. it's very demoralizing.
Sorry to hear that, that really sucks after working hard on a model. I doubt I have used any of the grey colours yet on my actual models (not the cloak models) so I can't comment on them but so far I have done 3 x 75mm and about 12 x 32mm models and haven't had any cracking on them but there is always a nagging doubt that the next one will crack. (I've mostly used the red and green colours on these models)
Yup, there was still some cracking on the heavy coat Army Painter primed models. Although it was probably 5 or 6 colours and not all of them. Which is why I tried with a lighter more controlled application and then I didn’t notice any cracking.
If your going to use a varnish in between priming and painting, which has been suggested by a couple of people and might be a good fix, I'm not sure it would matter if you dry brushed or used a zenithal of matt primers as all you are putting the speedpaint onto, is the clear varnish?
Interesting observations thanks for the investigation. On a side note, where does the floating cloak model come from please? Would be great for testing shading on!
The model is from Loot Studios, from one of their recent bundles. (Loxwort Academy I think that’s what it was called). They are a subscription based STL provider. I would highly recommend them for quality models.
@@upskillinglife Thanks for the reply! I do subscribe to Loot, turns out I do have the model!! I missed it, must've zoned out when searching through the bundle before. I agree about the quality models, they're fantastic and you get so many each month.
Haha, yea I missed that particular model for a while, it sort of blended in to the background compared to all the highly detailed models. Glad you managed to find it. I think I will be looking at one of the dragon statues sometime soon but finding it hard to choose one to settle on.
Honestly. I dont care. Im the customer who give the company money......again. Its not my part to make their products work. Xpress and Contrast work without any problems. No special primer. No varnishing in the middle of the project and so on. AP makes not 1 flawless Product. And thats why i wont give that company any more money. There are enough cheaper, better competitors on the market. They released with 1.0 a ok, flawed, but usable product. Then they react, dont apologized and instead of releasing and testing an good 2.0, they fcked it up AGAIN AND EVEN WORSE. I prime with Airbrush, in white with Inks. And this prime cracks because its not as thick as rattlecan primer coats. Do i have problems with Xpress or Contrast? No. So i use them and dump that cheap AP Shitpaints.
Sounds like you are not a fan of Army Painter! I happened to fall into Army Painter when I started so the majority of my paint is AP. I find it does the trick for me. Although I did branch out and got the 1st set (and pre-ordered the second) of Duncan Rhodes Two Thin Coats range off kickstarter and I am extremely impressed with them! Out of interest, what Ink range do you use, I would be interested in trying some inks out with the airbrush!
100% agree -wasted £135 on the mega set - they join the sp1 set. As you say others have produced products that don’t come with the need for experiments by the customer….
I've tried them on other 3d printed models in a previous video and didn't have any problem with them when applying them with care and not just slapping it on.
@@upskillinglife So you think it's unlikely or impossible that the cracking is due to the interaction between the 3D printed models and the contrast paints? I guess because you spray a primer on top, the contrast doesn't seem to come into contact with the surface of the 3D printed model anyway. Was just a thought of mine.
Yup, basically, without a degree in paint theory, those were roughly my thoughts as well. The primer should act as a layer between the paint and the model surface. So long as you are using a primer that bonds to the same material as your model (like not using a metal primer for plastic models) and for speedpaints so long as the primer isn't oil or ink based.
One thing to note with the Army Painter matte white air primer: last year they had a faulty batch that was causing people problems. If you email AP with the lot number on the bottle they can see if it was part of that batch and replace it for you free of charge.
Thanks for letting people know about that! I think my bottle is all good luckily.
I switched my primer to a brush on. Rattle cans made the primer too thick and caused cracking. With brush on I'm keeping my primer coat thin and not losing as much detail on the smaller mini's.
Yea, I don't use the rattle can much now either, the airbrush is a super handy tool for priming though!
Thanks a lot for taking your time explaining and investigating on that issue. Watching the minis you painted, it seems that even with AP primer, with a heavy coat, some paints tend to crack. One has to be cautious using these paint. It's a real problem.
Thanks for taking the time to watch. I did get some cracking with the heavy coat but to be honest, at this point, I probably wont consciously make any change as to how I apply it when painting a more detailed paint job. I do not think I will be using the cheaper primer unless I spray a clear coat after priming. I will give them a go on some more detailed models next time.
Putting a "coat" in between the primer and the paint completely defeats the point of a primer....
I have been using the Speedpaint 2.0 since it released and have had zero issues with it. I artbrush black and drybrush light gray and white.
Glad to hear you haven't had any issues. Im starting on a project with some small 32mm models so I think I will try a dry brush zenithal this time. Cheers for the heads up.
Thanks for putting together this video! I suspect the crazing has more to do with paint thickness than primer. This is not unique to Speedpaint; it's fairly common for thickly-applied acrylics to crack. Basically, the topmost layer forms a skin while the wet paint underneath is still drying. The layer of paint underneath pulls on that skin as it dries, leading to cracking. Despite how it looks, this is a paint and not a wash and needs to be applied accordingly (or so it seems).
How am I personally going to deal with it? By applying multiple coats and letting them dry completely in between, making sure I wick away any pooled paint with a clean brush as I work.
There are multiple mechanisms that cause the cracking. But I think the thick application and the fast drying time of the paints are the real problem. Maybe some drying retarder might solve the problem?
Its really annoying, that people are bashing on AP like that because of that issue. They wanted a faster drying time to prevent reactivation, this leads now to cracking after a heavy application. Work in lighter applications and everything is fine...
I wonder how the competitors perform with such a heavy application and pooling in the creases of the cloak. I'm pretty sure they will crack, too...
good information. thanks for this. I have been using the 2.0 paints with no issues, but i use army painter black rattle can, and then a dry brush zenithal as base coats. they work great in that circumstance
I usually use a zenithal as a base as well and haven't had issues on actual models I've painted. I have been spending my time on painting these cloak for the comparison videos, so I am now looking forward to really trying the speedpaints out on some more intricate models in a more 'real world' situation.
I wonder how much the ambient humidity affects drying time/cracking. Thanks for taking the time to go over the issue👍🏻
Cheers. The ambient humidity was out of my control as well as temperature but as we know, both play a part in painting as well. It would be interesting to know how much they play a part.
@@upskillinglife I had serious cracking on a model today with 2.0, and it is quite humid outside. Didn't notice it especially in the house, but at the moment I can't figure out what else might have caused it.
Wow. Ok this is making me rethink my AP SP 2.0 purchase. I was ready to go all in with the complete set of 90 colours but I’m not going to do that now. I might look at the Vallejo express paints, but they only have 23 colours and it’s in limited supply in Canada. I’m not sure what I’ll do yet. Thanks for the detailed review!
Glad you learnt something from the video. I definitely created it just to answer some questions for myself and to show people so they can make their own decisions from it. I am glad if it saves you wasting any money. Personally I was happy with the version 1 and loved the idea of a much larger colour range (guessing that was the appeal to you) so was happy to pre-order the mega set. I am still happily using them on some more detailed models and have not had any issues … to date. So I am still finding them very usable but I am consciously using AP primer now though just to be safe.
can recommend Xpress colors, if they have hues you're looking for.
Awesome, thanks. I'll check them out and then keep my eyes open for some deals.
I know it been a while, but I would second the recommendation for the Xpress colors. I've got a few and they don't have the cracking issues that speedpaints 2.0 can have. They aren't a heavily pigmented as Speedpaints, which makes them better suited for use over zenithal or slapchop, but can be used as a single coat over white, the shadows just won't quite be as dark as with speedpaint.
Real shame, fix one issue and create another. Less contrast than 1.0 as well. Great to those who can use them without issue but I will pass on these as well.
Looks like 2.0 is not ready for prime time.
Looking into Complete Set 2.0 but it’s about 500 bucks!
Chur from Japan!
Thanks man I was wondering why this was happening
All good, hope it provided you with some answers.
Speed Pains are not good alone. If you want to lay down a base coat that is a bit lighter than desired, then add speed paint after it works great. Large scale though? I doubt it would be useful at all.
Good work matie. Great experiment.
Thank you! Cheers!
I used that exact same rustoleum primer on plastic minis and after 24 hour dry time I had major cracking issues but on the back of the can it says it takes 5 to 7 days to fully bond to plastic and sure enough after 5 days of Ietting the primer dry i had no issues with cracking of any kind even when applying a very liberal amount of the 2.0 speedpaint and even the ones that cracked the worst on the 24 hour model were perfectly fine on the 5 day dry time models
Hey that's great, thanks! I will give this a try, on a chess set I am working on. I really wanted a speedy job, so a rattle can prime and speed paint finish will work great. Cheers. Great work actually reading the can instructions!!
Thanks for making this video! I have been looking for more commentary on this issue after having some cracking problems myself. The surface has to be quite matte for the paints to function properly which is definitely a concern.
Has anyone else noticed that this problem is most pronounced in the blue range?
Thanks for your comment. I am interested as well, to know if it is more pronounced with certain colours.
Мне подарили набор 2.0 на день рождение и это очень дорогой подарок. Мои краски трескаются, хотя я использую их по инструкции. Мне очень обидно.😢
Thank you
Even one crack = unacceptable
I painted a test model last night with an airbrushed zenithal of AP primers. I had cracking on that model, but only on the one color where I quickly applied multiple (thin) layers. I suspect waiting for it to fully dry between coats would have helped.
I think your right, you definitely need the speedpaints to dry fully before they get another coat. Out of interest, you don't remember what colour it was that cracked?
@@upskillinglife I just experienced cracking today with Battleship Grey. Second mini I painted with the new 2.0 set and it cracked pretty much everywhere I used that colour. it's very demoralizing.
Sorry to hear that, that really sucks after working hard on a model.
I doubt I have used any of the grey colours yet on my actual models (not the cloak models) so I can't comment on them but so far I have done 3 x 75mm and about 12 x 32mm models and haven't had any cracking on them but there is always a nagging doubt that the next one will crack. (I've mostly used the red and green colours on these models)
I don't know if I'm interpreting the images correctly, but seems like there is still cracking on the AP primer, is that true?
Yup, there was still some cracking on the heavy coat Army Painter primed models. Although it was probably 5 or 6 colours and not all of them. Which is why I tried with a lighter more controlled application and then I didn’t notice any cracking.
Some of the colors just cracks all the time. Like on your video here. Bad quality
wouldn't using gloss varnish after dry brushing process be better for those paints ? rather than matt primers
If your going to use a varnish in between priming and painting, which has been suggested by a couple of people and might be a good fix, I'm not sure it would matter if you dry brushed or used a zenithal of matt primers as all you are putting the speedpaint onto, is the clear varnish?
Interesting observations thanks for the investigation. On a side note, where does the floating cloak model come from please? Would be great for testing shading on!
The model is from Loot Studios, from one of their recent bundles. (Loxwort Academy I think that’s what it was called). They are a subscription based STL provider. I would highly recommend them for quality models.
@@upskillinglife Thanks for the reply! I do subscribe to Loot, turns out I do have the model!! I missed it, must've zoned out when searching through the bundle before. I agree about the quality models, they're fantastic and you get so many each month.
Haha, yea I missed that particular model for a while, it sort of blended in to the background compared to all the highly detailed models. Glad you managed to find it. I think I will be looking at one of the dragon statues sometime soon but finding it hard to choose one to settle on.
I didn't know of a 2.0, that sucks I have the first batch.
Don't worry too much, there are only three colours from the first version that is repeated in the second version.
Honestly. I dont care. Im the customer who give the company money......again. Its not my part to make their products work. Xpress and Contrast work without any problems. No special primer. No varnishing in the middle of the project and so on.
AP makes not 1 flawless Product. And thats why i wont give that company any more money. There are enough cheaper, better competitors on the market. They released with 1.0 a ok, flawed, but usable product. Then they react, dont apologized and instead of releasing and testing an good 2.0, they fcked it up AGAIN AND EVEN WORSE. I prime with Airbrush, in white with Inks. And this prime cracks because its not as thick as rattlecan primer coats. Do i have problems with Xpress or Contrast? No. So i use them and dump that cheap AP Shitpaints.
Sounds like you are not a fan of Army Painter! I happened to fall into Army Painter when I started so the majority of my paint is AP. I find it does the trick for me. Although I did branch out and got the 1st set (and pre-ordered the second) of Duncan Rhodes Two Thin Coats range off kickstarter and I am extremely impressed with them!
Out of interest, what Ink range do you use, I would be interested in trying some inks out with the airbrush!
100% agree -wasted £135 on the mega set - they join the sp1 set. As you say others have produced products that don’t come with the need for experiments by the customer….
Have you tried painting on something other than those models? Try some ordinary plastic models.
I've tried them on other 3d printed models in a previous video and didn't have any problem with them when applying them with care and not just slapping it on.
@@upskillinglife So you think it's unlikely or impossible that the cracking is due to the interaction between the 3D printed models and the contrast paints? I guess because you spray a primer on top, the contrast doesn't seem to come into contact with the surface of the 3D printed model anyway. Was just a thought of mine.
Yup, basically, without a degree in paint theory, those were roughly my thoughts as well. The primer should act as a layer between the paint and the model surface. So long as you are using a primer that bonds to the same material as your model (like not using a metal primer for plastic models) and for speedpaints so long as the primer isn't oil or ink based.