your method works.. i just got through with stabalizing some oak... it took almost a month for it to soak up to the point where it stopped floating.. but it did... and the wood i stabalized was extremely thick for a knife scale... so im guessing thats why it took so long to fully saturate the wood and fill in all of the air pockets inside of the wood... one thing you shouldve mentioned... (i discovered after researching the purpose of stabalizing and how it works... is that the wood has air poskets in it... this is part of why it absorbs moisture from the air and expands and contracts... so to properly stabalize wood.. those air pockets need to be filled in with wood hardener... its best to DRY THE WOOD... as much as possible putting it in a metal box with a gas heater will completely dehydrate the wood... (a dehumidifier would probably work as well just not as quickly... THEN can it as you showed... AND leave it in the wood hardener... until its WILL NOT FLOAT ANYMORE... thats how you know their are no airpockers left in the wood... and the thicker the wood you are stabalizing... the longer this will take... so stabalize wood as close to the same thickness you want your handle to be as possible for a faster process... i had 3/4 inch oak around the shop... so thats what i used... and it took 36 days to fully saturate... i had given up on it and bought stabilized scales haha
Keith Clarke Sounds good, and thanks for the info. Everything I use has been kiln cured by the local exotic wood supplier I buy from and I didn't think to mention that! Also thanks for the timeline on thicker scales, I've never tried larger than about 1/2". Thanks for watching.
wouldnt trust that timeline too much... i probably hadnt even looked at the jar in a week... plus i didnt discover that i needed to dry the wood until after i had already started soaking the scales... so that might have slowed the process as well... and im sure its common sense... but just incase... if you use a gas heater to dry the wood... obviously it would be a bad idea to have the propane tank inside the metal box with the heater...
CoastalBackWoods also... it looks like you are mixing stain with your wood hardener... how much stain do you mix with the hardener? and do you add anything else.... some people say add alchohol... ?
Keith Clarke I haven't tried stain, I've heard it done dying bone though. The color came from the natural oils in the Bocote I used in the video. The process of opening the pores really brought out those.
Seems like you would want all the bubbles to come out before sealing. Any remaining bubbles would decrease, or could eliminate the vacuum pressure which is already lower than a vacuum chamber. I guess if you already have the canning equipment, this is better than just soaking the wood, but for anyone buying the equipment, the vacuum chamber and resin seems like it would work much better. Additionally, many experts say the resins like cactus juice are much better as the wood hardener is for rotted wood and will not deeply penetrate solid woods. I’d be curious to take a piece and cut it in half to see if it penetrates to the center. I know the stabilizing resins will penetrate the entirety of the wood as long as they’re left under full vacuum long enough.
Watched and followed your process a while ago. Just did another batch but didn’t have enough hardener to cover the tops so I laid it down. Seems to be covering everything and no leakage so I assume I’m ok. Nice easy method
Hi there, do you recommend your way over using that Cactus Juice to stabilize wood & burl? I'm trying to avoid using a pressure pot which it looks like that's exactly what you've done here. I have mohagany burl i want to treat.
I just had to subscribe and tap the bell. Y’all are talking my kinda talk. Look forward to future videos. I’m a first timer here and love knife making and all inclusive!!!
Tx for the informative video...I have some pretty close to being finished revolver grips. Made out of cherry burl wood. All left to do is some sanding and maybe checkering. Can I do this process with these grips and will the hardener fill any holes or natural cavities?
Question: Can you re--use the wood hardener after you've completed a week of the hardening process you describe in the video? Thank you, great video and thanks for sharing!
So I read on a forum you can reuse hardener but said to reuse from lighter dyed solution as the darker solution might leach into your wood. Hope that makes since
Good question. I have the same question, what is your method of drying. Also, I would encourage you to create a 2nd edition to this video, with more details on the process, you will get a lot of clicks. Call it "Not in the Cactus League."
While heat might open wood slightly, canning approach is NOT how vacuums work. Leaving the wood in for a month makes zero difference, because there is no actual pressure applied to force sealant into the wood until more pressure is applied, either from normal atmospheric pressure, or actively under a pressurized situation. Voids within porous woods trap air; applying lower pressure over some time, usually a few hours, causes those air pockets to expand, seen as bubbling out of the wood. Once that slows to a stop, there is still a bit of trapped air that is not a concern. Then, maintaining full submersion under the sealing liquid, pressure is returned to normal (even faster with active greater pressure), and the liquid is forced into those voids where the small remaining air is compressed to a smaller volume. Trouble is, any solvent based solution like this will always leave air spaces, once the solvent slowly dries from within the wood, which can take a long time once the surface dries. Catalyzing resins like Cactus Juice which cure with no solvent loss or shrinkage are the only materials which provide deep penetration and once cured are not re-soluble in acetone or toluene. Plus, it is a similar price to this stuff, if a gallon worth of wood stabilizing is worth something to you.
@@CoastalBackWoods I saw a video where they used an inexpensive vacuum chamber and mixed it with 2 parts Acetone. What doe you think about mixing the Acetone?
Great video, thank you! I am just starting to try my hand at some knife making. How do you like the belt sander that I saw in this video? I cant afford anything to grand right now, but saw that model at a reasonable price.
+Me Me The little 1x30 sander from Harbor Freight, is mediocre at best... But it WILL make knives. I know more than several full time knife makers that started on a 1x30. They track terribly, so clean, crisp lines can be an issue, and of course the motor isn't the most powerful. Just don't really crank the steel down on it and you should be fine. One more tip about the 1x30, splurge and get good belts for it. They cost a little more, but last much longer than the cheap ones. Good luck!
Depends on the species, but I generally wait 2 weeks, but for some, I've waited up to 4 weeks just to be safe. Make sure you flip it so all the edges get air.
@@timjohle8876 I've never tried antler, so anything I say would just be a guess. I do prefer to air dry, but I suppose your could use an oven, just be careful, the vapors are very flammable.
I followed your steps, filled it to the top with the hardener and after sealing it for a few hours I noticed that the level of the hardener has gone below the scales, so the top of the scales aren’t submerged anymore in the hardener. Should I leave it as is or open it and pour more hardener and reseal?
You can get away with not stabilizing bocote depending on how you plan to use it. Any very dense wood should be ok depending on use. Always allow an unstabilized wood enough time to acclimate to your environment before working it.
Sort of new at this, have made four knife's (just the scale part) and now have orders for two. I bought my scales from a retailer. I noticed, after a week or so the scales are "pugy" in spots. I tried coating with very thing epoxy, but I think its an indicator I need to stabilize the wood. I am not in the Cactus League yet. Your technique appears to be perfect for where I am at, AA Minors. I like how you stated its similar to the canning process. Can you send some pics or add to your video the part where you take them out, dry and the end game knife? Two questions, 1) can you reuse the minwax? and 2) from my research I saw someone add 2 parts Acetone, your thought on that?
Jennings Askew Hmm, that's a good question. Pine has a lot of resin, so I'm not sure. But for me the biggest reason I probably wouldn't try is that it's such a soft wood, I don't know how it would hold up under any real use / abuse on a knife. Thanks for watching!
CoastalBackWoods it is a soft wood but the hardener that is absorbed should make it more durable in theory. I doubt I will be using pine but just a thought.
Jennings Askew Yeah that's the theory, my thinking was if the space the hardner is supposed to occupy is already filled with pine sap it might not accept the hardner as readily as it would need to overcome it's natural softness. I honestly don't know, it never occurred to me to try it! I'm thinking back though, and I don't think I have ever seen a knife with pine scales. That might be a telling sign. Still, great question!
*CBW...You have it exactly ass backwards...The softer more porous the material, the more hardener it soaks up and eventually cures. Ever seen a leather grip on a combat or hunting knife? How do you think they stabilize the leather? Leather is probably the most porous material ever put on a knife grip..
I've reused the Minwax several times and it appears to hold up pretty well, and work just the same. I tossed it after about 3 or 4 runs though, it just started to get too dark. I assume it is really going to depend on the species of the wood you are using with it. If it's a wood that has very little natural oils, it shouldn't contaminate the Minwax as quickly as one with a lot of natural oils like the Bocote in the video. If I can help you out any more just holler! Thanks for the view!
it would probably also be a good idea... to wipe down the rim of the jar with paint thinner or alchohol before you seal it.... i had to bust the jar to get mine out... haha and wood hardener isnt cheap
Word of caution for people. Make sure you take them out as soon as you see the bubbles forming. I left mine in a few minutes longer. It was like a volcano erupting. Thank god I was doing this outside. What a mess.
your method works.. i just got through with stabalizing some oak... it took almost a month for it to soak up to the point where it stopped floating.. but it did... and the wood i stabalized was extremely thick for a knife scale... so im guessing thats why it took so long to fully saturate the wood and fill in all of the air pockets inside of the wood... one thing you shouldve mentioned... (i discovered after researching the purpose of stabalizing and how it works... is that the wood has air poskets in it... this is part of why it absorbs moisture from the air and expands and contracts... so to properly stabalize wood.. those air pockets need to be filled in with wood hardener... its best to DRY THE WOOD... as much as possible putting it in a metal box with a gas heater will completely dehydrate the wood... (a dehumidifier would probably work as well just not as quickly... THEN can it as you showed... AND leave it in the wood hardener... until its WILL NOT FLOAT ANYMORE... thats how you know their are no airpockers left in the wood... and the thicker the wood you are stabalizing... the longer this will take... so stabalize wood as close to the same thickness you want your handle to be as possible for a faster process... i had 3/4 inch oak around the shop... so thats what i used... and it took 36 days to fully saturate... i had given up on it and bought stabilized scales haha
Keith Clarke Sounds good, and thanks for the info. Everything I use has been kiln cured by the local exotic wood supplier I buy from and I didn't think to mention that! Also thanks for the timeline on thicker scales, I've never tried larger than about 1/2". Thanks for watching.
CoastalBackWoods not a problem... thank you for the video... itll save me money on a vacuum system.. :)
wouldnt trust that timeline too much... i probably hadnt even looked at the jar in a week... plus i didnt discover that i needed to dry the wood until after i had already started soaking the scales... so that might have slowed the process as well... and im sure its common sense... but just incase... if you use a gas heater to dry the wood... obviously it would be a bad idea to have the propane tank inside the metal box with the heater...
CoastalBackWoods also... it looks like you are mixing stain with your wood hardener... how much stain do you mix with the hardener? and do you add anything else.... some people say add alchohol... ?
Keith Clarke I haven't tried stain, I've heard it done dying bone though. The color came from the natural oils in the Bocote I used in the video. The process of opening the pores really brought out those.
can you stain the wood after it has been stabilized, if not what do you do to get the color of wood you want ?
Seems like you would want all the bubbles to come out before sealing. Any remaining bubbles would decrease, or could eliminate the vacuum pressure which is already lower than a vacuum chamber. I guess if you already have the canning equipment, this is better than just soaking the wood, but for anyone buying the equipment, the vacuum chamber and resin seems like it would work much better.
Additionally, many experts say the resins like cactus juice are much better as the wood hardener is for rotted wood and will not deeply penetrate solid woods.
I’d be curious to take a piece and cut it in half to see if it penetrates to the center. I know the stabilizing resins will penetrate the entirety of the wood as long as they’re left under full vacuum long enough.
HOW MANY TIMES CAN YOU REUSE THE WOOD HARDENER AFTER THE SCALES ARE DONE
Watched and followed your process a while ago. Just did another batch but didn’t have enough hardener to cover the tops so I laid it down. Seems to be covering everything and no leakage so I assume I’m ok. Nice easy method
Hey man, if I stabilize oak or mahogany would I still be able to burn the back like I do in my videos?
Would this technique fix any minor cracks in the wood?
Hi there, do you recommend your way over using that Cactus Juice to stabilize wood & burl? I'm trying to avoid using a pressure pot which it looks like that's exactly what you've done here. I have mohagany burl i want to treat.
I just had to subscribe and tap the bell. Y’all are talking my kinda talk. Look forward to future videos. I’m a first timer here and love knife making and all inclusive!!!
Excellent information and presentation. Much appreciated.
Tx for the informative video...I have some pretty close to being finished revolver grips. Made out of cherry burl wood. All left to do is some sanding and maybe checkering. Can I do this process with these grips and will the hardener fill any holes or natural cavities?
7 years later.... howd it hold up?
Question: Can you re--use the wood hardener after you've completed a week of the hardening process you describe in the video? Thank you, great video and thanks for sharing!
So I read on a forum you can reuse hardener but said to reuse from lighter dyed solution as the darker solution might leach into your wood. Hope that makes since
Very useful tips! Might just try it with some home-made scales. Thanks (ps - some people pronounce it "bo-koh-tay")
I'm in the middle of doing some aged oak. Have you done white oak and for how long did you let it soak in the jar?
What method are you drying the scales out. Oven/sun ?? Or just left out for awhile.
Good question. I have the same question, what is your method of drying. Also, I would encourage you to create a 2nd edition to this video, with more details on the process, you will get a lot of clicks. Call it "Not in the Cactus League."
didn't know about this process before;very good infos and i think you are doing great!
thanks for this video i must test that one day
Thanks guys!
While heat might open wood slightly, canning approach is NOT how vacuums work. Leaving the wood in for a month makes zero difference, because there is no actual pressure applied to force sealant into the wood until more pressure is applied, either from normal atmospheric pressure, or actively under a pressurized situation. Voids within porous woods trap air; applying lower pressure over some time, usually a few hours, causes those air pockets to expand, seen as bubbling out of the wood. Once that slows to a stop, there is still a bit of trapped air that is not a concern. Then, maintaining full submersion under the sealing liquid, pressure is returned to normal (even faster with active greater pressure), and the liquid is forced into those voids where the small remaining air is compressed to a smaller volume. Trouble is, any solvent based solution like this will always leave air spaces, once the solvent slowly dries from within the wood, which can take a long time once the surface dries. Catalyzing resins like Cactus Juice which cure with no solvent loss or shrinkage are the only materials which provide deep penetration and once cured are not re-soluble in acetone or toluene. Plus, it is a similar price to this stuff, if a gallon worth of wood stabilizing is worth something to you.
OK, Canning my not be the correct analogy, but once the bubbling process starts, isn't it more like a siphon for a while?
Thanks for doing this video man, been trying to find an easy way to do this!
Me too
I was wondering how it would work if you have a vacuum pump and chamber. We've got them at work that they use for potting components.
It works perfectly with a vacuum chamber. That is how it's done commercially..
@@CoastalBackWoods I saw a video where they used an inexpensive vacuum chamber and mixed it with 2 parts Acetone. What doe you think about mixing the Acetone?
ill be trying this method. thanks for sharing
Great video, thank you! I am just starting to try my hand at some knife making. How do you like the belt sander that I saw in this video? I cant afford anything to grand right now, but saw that model at a reasonable price.
+Me Me The little 1x30 sander from Harbor Freight, is mediocre at best... But it WILL make knives. I know more than several full time knife makers that started on a 1x30. They track terribly, so clean, crisp lines can be an issue, and of course the motor isn't the most powerful. Just don't really crank the steel down on it and you should be fine. One more tip about the 1x30, splurge and get good belts for it. They cost a little more, but last much longer than the cheap ones. Good luck!
+CoastalBackWoods Thank you!
i am bit late to the video but damm your video is what i was after
After it sits for however long it needs,,what’s the next step in drying the wood. And after it’s dried how long until the wood can be used. TIA.
Depends on the species, but I generally wait 2 weeks, but for some, I've waited up to 4 weeks just to be safe. Make sure you flip it so all the edges get air.
CoastalBackWoods
So no putting it in a oven of some sort. Toaster oven? Only air dry?
Does antlers get this same procedure.
@@timjohle8876 I've never tried antler, so anything I say would just be a guess. I do prefer to air dry, but I suppose your could use an oven, just be careful, the vapors are very flammable.
CoastalBackWoods TYVM for the response brother. I appreciate it.
Will it make the scales darker? Also if not can you use food dye ?
It seems to darken them, but that really depends on the species. As for dye, I haven't played around with trying to dye materials, sorry about that!
I followed your steps, filled it to the top with the hardener and after sealing it for a few hours I noticed that the level of the hardener has gone below the scales, so the top of the scales aren’t submerged anymore in the hardener. Should I leave it as is or open it and pour more hardener and reseal?
Can you reuse the hardener?
hi is there wood that does not need stabilizing such as bubinga?
im trying to make a handle and i have allergies for chemicals
thanks :)
You can get away with not stabilizing bocote depending on how you plan to use it. Any very dense wood should be ok depending on use. Always allow an unstabilized wood enough time to acclimate to your environment before working it.
thank you! that made it more clear for me.
much appreciated :)
Bacote is a very hard wood already. Janka hardness 2010 lbs. Why do you need to stabilize hard wood with no imperfections?
You really don't need to stabilize bocote, but it's what I had on hand to demo for the video. Thanks for watching!
Sort of new at this, have made four knife's (just the scale part) and now have orders for two. I bought my scales from a retailer. I noticed, after a week or so the scales are "pugy" in spots. I tried coating with very thing epoxy, but I think its an indicator I need to stabilize the wood.
I am not in the Cactus League yet. Your technique appears to be perfect for where I am at, AA Minors. I like how you stated its similar to the canning process. Can you send some pics or add to your video the part where you take them out, dry and the end game knife?
Two questions, 1) can you reuse the minwax? and 2) from my research I saw someone add 2 parts Acetone, your thought on that?
Do you think that this could do apply for pine?
Jennings Askew Hmm, that's a good question. Pine has a lot of resin, so I'm not sure. But for me the biggest reason I probably wouldn't try is that it's such a soft wood, I don't know how it would hold up under any real use / abuse on a knife. Thanks for watching!
CoastalBackWoods it is a soft wood but the hardener that is absorbed should make it more durable in theory. I doubt I will be using pine but just a thought.
Jennings Askew Yeah that's the theory, my thinking was if the space the hardner is supposed to occupy is already filled with pine sap it might not accept the hardner as readily as it would need to overcome it's natural softness. I honestly don't know, it never occurred to me to try it! I'm thinking back though, and I don't think I have ever seen a knife with pine scales. That might be a telling sign. Still, great question!
*CBW...You have it exactly ass backwards...The softer more porous the material, the more hardener it soaks up and eventually cures. Ever seen a leather grip on a combat or hunting knife? How do you think they stabilize the leather? Leather is probably the most porous material ever put on a knife grip..
Awesome!! thanks for sharing.
does it take to epoxy ok????
Yes sir. I haven't had an issue when mounted with either corby bolts or stainless pins.
can you re use the stabilizer?
I've reused the Minwax several times and it appears to hold up pretty well, and work just the same. I tossed it after about 3 or 4 runs though, it just started to get too dark. I assume it is really going to depend on the species of the wood you are using with it. If it's a wood that has very little natural oils, it shouldn't contaminate the Minwax as quickly as one with a lot of natural oils like the Bocote in the video. If I can help you out any more just holler! Thanks for the view!
you are welcome and thank you
anybody know what kind of dye you would mix with the hardener to do the wood in different colors?
Great question,,,I wish someone would answer it.
An enamel or solvent based stain, Testors makes some colors but I bet Minwax might make some themselves
Just waiting on the pop
Vacuum chamber and resin, easy peasy
Why would you think mahogany needs stabilising, mahogany is in itself a very stable wood??
it would probably also be a good idea... to wipe down the rim of the jar with paint thinner or alchohol before you seal it.... i had to bust the jar to get mine out... haha and wood hardener isnt cheap
Yeah, good point! It's usually a chore to get them open.
Did the paint thinner work?
Word of caution for people. Make sure you take them out as soon as you see the bubbles forming. I left mine in a few minutes longer. It was like a volcano erupting. Thank god I was doing this outside. What a mess.
Thanks, good point.
Thank you for good information and well presented.
good info
Thank you!
Im sure you may build it too guys. Just look for stodoys page and build it too.