I was doing Citrix nearly 25 years ago which delivered this type of stuff. We did it at the time using thin client devices (Wyse then later on Axel) which survived jumping from NT to 2003 to 2008 before I changed career path. Setting up new users by just plonking a thin client device on the desk, screen, keyboard, mouse and spending literally two minutes to configure to have a fully polished, TESTED computer I found to be magic... and still do
Just a quick question. I just wanted your input on whether users of Microsoft Office 365 (E3) as well as Windows 365, should be "backing up" their Office 365 data (like OneDrive). I understand about the multiple "Recycle Bins" that are in place (plus the 7-year retention policy) but in terms of a backup process outside of Office 365, I was just wondering which product or 3rd party (if any) you would recommend or if it is not necessary. Thank you for your time!!!
Director here - I think cloud PCs fit a good niche, but emphasis on niche. My issue is you still need to buy people PCs, and they can't be junk PCs. Cloud PC compute is also relatively expensive (if you don't hate your users and give them like... 1-2 vCPU and 8GB). So you end up still spending like 2-3x the cost of your normal PC fleet. And if you dont have really strict security/data requirements (eg. healthcare), it ends up not really being worth it. I've done the ROI and cost analysis so many times, and I really really want to love cloud PCs, but I just can't justify it. Love your video(s) and channel otherwise!
Thanks Scott! Even when another IT pro doesn't share my approach, taking a thoughtful, respectful tone like you did and sharing your opinion, is great for interesting conversations. I'll share my thoughts on your comment as the respectful objection you share is interesting to me within the context of talking to hundreds of IT managers/directors/CTO's/CFO's/CEO's in just the past 3 years alone as Microsoft cloud systems got ultra-hot in 2020 with the pandemic. IT managers generally (not saying you do...and for the same of this..let's agree that you don't) just do hard cost analysis, and they don't think in terms of their salaries and costs, and the other IT personnel salaries and costs...the turnover costs of IT personnel (which is a whole other huge topic), the security risks...the costs of having idle stacks of computers sitting in server rooms. The servicing costs of physical computers vs. virtual computers (in this case Cloud PC's). They also over-provision virtual computers for users. The Cloud PC objection reminds me of objections of 7+ years ago around moving server to Azure. The IT manager would take the same on-premise specs which were massively over-powered and apply them to Azure and then point out what a rip off Azure was compared to physical server. That isn't a good analysis. Again, no saying you are doing that...but I see it ALL...THE...TIME. I do a LOT of educating with cloud services and tech. I will say this, if you are doing your Cloud PC analysis as an IT director of a single computer network..I don't care how big it is (the bigger the network is...usually the more that network will stay the same..too many moving parts and IT managers of larger networks are VERY risk adverse), an IT manger can only do this properly with a Microsoft AI Cloud Partner...a company that analyzes and proposes on integrating systems like Cloud PC's over and over and over. Internal IT managers cannot get the experience to do the proper analysis. They don't know what they don't know. How could they? They only work one-ish network at a time. Again, not looking to get into it here int the comments..not saying this is you. But...this is a fact and I see it all the time. The people we talk to most are IT managers and not companies without an IT manager. Lastly, I'll also mention that in my video, I talk about BYOD and repurposing old computers as Cloud PC connection devices. This works extremely well and provides absolute hard number cost savings, and requires less IT support personnel. And IT people shouldn't let the concept of "less IT support personnel" trigger them. Low level desktop support work is not the most interesting type of IT work to do. It's entry level and higher turnover which is a headache for IT directors like you. Your time is better spent on strategic IT work. Again, thank you for your comment and engaging in a constructive conversation Scott. 👍🙂
@@Xerillion Gotcha, and I don't disagree with most of your points. I appreciate the reasoned reply. I do think cloud PCs are a good fit in a lot of situations and companies, but it's still not a solid fit for all. One of my current issues is remote and offline use, as a huge chunk of our workforce is in sketchy areas which dont have internet/cellular. I'd also make the argument that the ROI on cloud PCs is less in raw PC/compute savings but more in security and other benefits. VDI (and VDI-like) solutions, historically, are almost never about raw cash savings. Anyway - appreciate the points and discussion nonetheless. I always like sanity checks and good discussions with other IT leaders. Keep up the great work on the channel.
@@scottrobinson2668 appreciate your discussion on this! One thing I'll make a future video on is that Microsoft is adding Microsoft Cloud PC Offline. So, the Cloud PC will work offline and then sync changes when it reconnects.
Hi! Really interesting video. Just a question, when you help out customers within this area...do you always suggest Cloud PC:s as a standard solution? Keep up the good work! 😊 Regards Alexander
I'd be interested to knowhow you are re-purposing old or refurbished PCs. If you are just installing a fresh version of the OS then there is the overhead of managing and securng these devices. If you are using third party software like Stratodesk or Igel OS then there is additional cost and management required. Be useful to know how you recommend managing these endpoints.
You can take an existing Windows 10 or 11 Pro company computers as-is...manage it with Intune. If Windows 10, manage the upgrade automatically through Intune. Refurbished computers purchased with Windows 11 Pro managed with Intune. Super easy. No overhead. The thing is this...if an IT manager doesn't want to do it, they will find a way not to. If they want to make it happen, they will find a way. Going doing the path I describe in the video would be for an IT manager that is all-in with, and excited about, Microsoft cloud services. If they aren't, that's cool too.
hi, today just apply a microsoft cloud PC but i installed VNC server remoting software inside this cloud PC and doesnt work. it wont load. do you know is it because this cloud PC blocked or other reason.
Yes to both. I suppose there is always going to be a chance that a desktop application won't work, though we haven't run into one yet in our cloud practice with clients.
I love the idea, the concept, but most companies (here in Brazil) doesn't have the BYOD policy. Most users can't even rely on their computer to some basic office tasks. Which brings me to the company need to buy a computer (let's say a laptop). I did the math and I can't justify (yet) the price of 2vcpu 4GB vs 4cpu 8GB, for me ill get less performance, keeping in mind that today, 16GB and 4CPU is the minimal spec to properly work (office jobs). And yes, we have MS 365 BP
Hey Anderson! 99% of companies in the US don't have BYOD either. Interestingly, years ago at Microosft tech conference, the Microsoft employee doing the presentation on security told the audience I was in that Microsoft DOES have a BYOD policy. If someone wants to bring their own computer, they can. I'd imagine these days, Microsoft would just issue that person a Cloud PC, though I haven't heard that. But at that point, the user's device just has to be powerful enough to run the Windows 365 Desktop App...and that doesn't require much power. I go over several cost scenarios in the video...use an old company computer, use a thin client/zero client, or a lower power refurbished computer. These are all very low cost to provide a connecting device. Then an IT manager might just look at "hard number cost savings" and go...but Wayne!..LOOK! Look at how much it costs to run a Cloud PC for 3-4 years compared to buying a physical computer. IT mangers typically just think in terms of hard number cost savings, but not in terms of soft cost savings that a CFO/CEO might think of in terms of salaries (less IT staff needed) better security (less risk expense), and usually they overpower they physical computers relative to the Cloud PC, so it isn't a proper comparison in terms of cost versus how much power the user really needs. Lastly, IT managers typically do what they have always done with their current IT system...just stick with physical PC's. It's safer...easier. So they don't get the formal training and years of experience integrating and supporting all the components that make up M365 BP. Having M365BP wouldn't be enough. Integrating all of the systems properly to work together takes training (which is driven by completing certifications) and experience integrating these systems over and over at multiple companies. Internal IT managers just don't get that type of experience working on a single network. 🤷♂The company you work with is lucky in that you are paying attention to these types of systems which puts you WAYYYY ahead of other IT Pro's.
@@Xerillion in my case all our computers are HaaS, so if we think in go with W365, we must buy computers to start this process. But I get your point in having a computer until it die, I was thinking the maintenance in the way of his life. Unfortunately here the prices of the hardware (even thin clients) are higher than US. Looking to 4/5y and beyond, looks promising (cost saving). For us M365 BP was born in 2020 pandemic era, in a forced way to provide mobility. The BP is very good, has his gaps in Intune, but save us a lot of time and pain to manage. See ya!
Hey @dellc. I talk about thin clients as a connection device many times in this video. They are a way to connect to Cloud PC's though they are not a competitor to them. Thin clients don't host virtual desktops, they connect to them.
I was doing Citrix nearly 25 years ago which delivered this type of stuff. We did it at the time using thin client devices (Wyse then later on Axel) which survived jumping from NT to 2003 to 2008 before I changed career path. Setting up new users by just plonking a thin client device on the desk, screen, keyboard, mouse and spending literally two minutes to configure to have a fully polished, TESTED computer I found to be magic... and still do
As always: excelent video!
This is such a great video! Thank you so much!
Phenomenal video; great content and extremely informative. Really appreciate the wealth of knowledge; can't wait to get started using this solution!!!
Thanks @kaplangolfer!
Just a quick question. I just wanted your input on whether users of Microsoft Office 365 (E3) as well as Windows 365, should be "backing up" their Office 365 data (like OneDrive). I understand about the multiple "Recycle Bins" that are in place (plus the 7-year retention policy) but in terms of a backup process outside of Office 365, I was just wondering which product or 3rd party (if any) you would recommend or if it is not necessary. Thank you for your time!!!
Informative as always. Definitely the future but still a little too pricey.
We're now using this as a full VDI solution with AVN and tieback to onprem AD. It's great.
Director here - I think cloud PCs fit a good niche, but emphasis on niche. My issue is you still need to buy people PCs, and they can't be junk PCs. Cloud PC compute is also relatively expensive (if you don't hate your users and give them like... 1-2 vCPU and 8GB). So you end up still spending like 2-3x the cost of your normal PC fleet. And if you dont have really strict security/data requirements (eg. healthcare), it ends up not really being worth it.
I've done the ROI and cost analysis so many times, and I really really want to love cloud PCs, but I just can't justify it.
Love your video(s) and channel otherwise!
Thanks Scott! Even when another IT pro doesn't share my approach, taking a thoughtful, respectful tone like you did and sharing your opinion, is great for interesting conversations.
I'll share my thoughts on your comment as the respectful objection you share is interesting to me within the context of talking to hundreds of IT managers/directors/CTO's/CFO's/CEO's in just the past 3 years alone as Microsoft cloud systems got ultra-hot in 2020 with the pandemic.
IT managers generally (not saying you do...and for the same of this..let's agree that you don't) just do hard cost analysis, and they don't think in terms of their salaries and costs, and the other IT personnel salaries and costs...the turnover costs of IT personnel (which is a whole other huge topic), the security risks...the costs of having idle stacks of computers sitting in server rooms. The servicing costs of physical computers vs. virtual computers (in this case Cloud PC's). They also over-provision virtual computers for users. The Cloud PC objection reminds me of objections of 7+ years ago around moving server to Azure. The IT manager would take the same on-premise specs which were massively over-powered and apply them to Azure and then point out what a rip off Azure was compared to physical server. That isn't a good analysis. Again, no saying you are doing that...but I see it ALL...THE...TIME. I do a LOT of educating with cloud services and tech.
I will say this, if you are doing your Cloud PC analysis as an IT director of a single computer network..I don't care how big it is (the bigger the network is...usually the more that network will stay the same..too many moving parts and IT managers of larger networks are VERY risk adverse), an IT manger can only do this properly with a Microsoft AI Cloud Partner...a company that analyzes and proposes on integrating systems like Cloud PC's over and over and over. Internal IT managers cannot get the experience to do the proper analysis. They don't know what they don't know. How could they? They only work one-ish network at a time. Again, not looking to get into it here int the comments..not saying this is you. But...this is a fact and I see it all the time. The people we talk to most are IT managers and not companies without an IT manager.
Lastly, I'll also mention that in my video, I talk about BYOD and repurposing old computers as Cloud PC connection devices. This works extremely well and provides absolute hard number cost savings, and requires less IT support personnel. And IT people shouldn't let the concept of "less IT support personnel" trigger them. Low level desktop support work is not the most interesting type of IT work to do. It's entry level and higher turnover which is a headache for IT directors like you. Your time is better spent on strategic IT work.
Again, thank you for your comment and engaging in a constructive conversation Scott. 👍🙂
@@Xerillion Gotcha, and I don't disagree with most of your points. I appreciate the reasoned reply.
I do think cloud PCs are a good fit in a lot of situations and companies, but it's still not a solid fit for all. One of my current issues is remote and offline use, as a huge chunk of our workforce is in sketchy areas which dont have internet/cellular.
I'd also make the argument that the ROI on cloud PCs is less in raw PC/compute savings but more in security and other benefits. VDI (and VDI-like) solutions, historically, are almost never about raw cash savings.
Anyway - appreciate the points and discussion nonetheless. I always like sanity checks and good discussions with other IT leaders.
Keep up the great work on the channel.
@@scottrobinson2668 appreciate your discussion on this! One thing I'll make a future video on is that Microsoft is adding Microsoft Cloud PC Offline. So, the Cloud PC will work offline and then sync changes when it reconnects.
5:30 - what if the users local printer is on a WDS port?
Hi!
Really interesting video.
Just a question, when you help out customers within this area...do you always suggest Cloud PC:s as a standard solution?
Keep up the good work! 😊
Regards
Alexander
Thanks @twangt! And, yes, we do...about 98% of the time. There are some cases where Azure Virtual Desktop makes sense though at this point, rare.
I'd be interested to knowhow you are re-purposing old or refurbished PCs. If you are just installing a fresh version of the OS then there is the overhead of managing and securng these devices. If you are using third party software like Stratodesk or Igel OS then there is additional cost and management required. Be useful to know how you recommend managing these endpoints.
You can take an existing Windows 10 or 11 Pro company computers as-is...manage it with Intune. If Windows 10, manage the upgrade automatically through Intune. Refurbished computers purchased with Windows 11 Pro managed with Intune. Super easy. No overhead. The thing is this...if an IT manager doesn't want to do it, they will find a way not to. If they want to make it happen, they will find a way. Going doing the path I describe in the video would be for an IT manager that is all-in with, and excited about, Microsoft cloud services. If they aren't, that's cool too.
hi, today just apply a microsoft cloud PC but i installed VNC server remoting software inside this cloud PC and doesnt work. it wont load. do you know is it because this cloud PC blocked or other reason.
Hi Peter, I don't know if VNC was blocked by the Cloud PC.
Hi. Can I put any software I want on the cloud pc? And can I send my ''true pc'' file to my ''cloud pc'' and other way round easily ?
Yes to both. I suppose there is always going to be a chance that a desktop application won't work, though we haven't run into one yet in our cloud practice with clients.
I love the idea, the concept, but most companies (here in Brazil) doesn't have the BYOD policy. Most users can't even rely on their computer to some basic office tasks.
Which brings me to the company need to buy a computer (let's say a laptop). I did the math and I can't justify (yet) the price of 2vcpu 4GB vs 4cpu 8GB, for me ill get less performance, keeping in mind that today, 16GB and 4CPU is the minimal spec to properly work (office jobs).
And yes, we have MS 365 BP
Hey Anderson! 99% of companies in the US don't have BYOD either. Interestingly, years ago at Microosft tech conference, the Microsoft employee doing the presentation on security told the audience I was in that Microsoft DOES have a BYOD policy. If someone wants to bring their own computer, they can. I'd imagine these days, Microsoft would just issue that person a Cloud PC, though I haven't heard that. But at that point, the user's device just has to be powerful enough to run the Windows 365 Desktop App...and that doesn't require much power. I go over several cost scenarios in the video...use an old company computer, use a thin client/zero client, or a lower power refurbished computer. These are all very low cost to provide a connecting device. Then an IT manager might just look at "hard number cost savings" and go...but Wayne!..LOOK! Look at how much it costs to run a Cloud PC for 3-4 years compared to buying a physical computer. IT mangers typically just think in terms of hard number cost savings, but not in terms of soft cost savings that a CFO/CEO might think of in terms of salaries (less IT staff needed) better security (less risk expense), and usually they overpower they physical computers relative to the Cloud PC, so it isn't a proper comparison in terms of cost versus how much power the user really needs. Lastly, IT managers typically do what they have always done with their current IT system...just stick with physical PC's. It's safer...easier. So they don't get the formal training and years of experience integrating and supporting all the components that make up M365 BP. Having M365BP wouldn't be enough. Integrating all of the systems properly to work together takes training (which is driven by completing certifications) and experience integrating these systems over and over at multiple companies. Internal IT managers just don't get that type of experience working on a single network. 🤷♂The company you work with is lucky in that you are paying attention to these types of systems which puts you WAYYYY ahead of other IT Pro's.
@@Xerillion in my case all our computers are HaaS, so if we think in go with W365, we must buy computers to start this process.
But I get your point in having a computer until it die, I was thinking the maintenance in the way of his life. Unfortunately here the prices of the hardware (even thin clients) are higher than US. Looking to 4/5y and beyond, looks promising (cost saving).
For us M365 BP was born in 2020 pandemic era, in a forced way to provide mobility. The BP is very good, has his gaps in Intune, but save us a lot of time and pain to manage.
See ya!
hi sir this is support all so for video call?
Yes
Ever thought of Thin Clients ? Cause that's the direct competitor to this...
Hey @dellc. I talk about thin clients as a connection device many times in this video. They are a way to connect to Cloud PC's though they are not a competitor to them. Thin clients don't host virtual desktops, they connect to them.