The Latest RV Dealer Scam - Lehto's Law Ep. 4.52
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- BOOKS ARE ALL SOLD! THANKS. Recently, I've been hearing from people who are charged a "mandatory" inspection fee - by the dealer selling them the RV being inspected. Yes, that is a scam by every definition. My previous videos are:
• Don't Buy An RV! - Leh...
• Video
www.lehtoslaw.com
2.5 min intro and still waiting for the point ...
I love it when people from the RV industry watch my videos.
Go back to your coloring books.
Don't wait, go away
we love Steve, now scram.
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Full Disclosure: Before commenting, I should mention that I am an independent Certified NRVIA Level 2 RV inspector. Also, due to my thorough inspections and detailed reports on RVs involved in law suits, multiple attorneys have me on their call list, as an expert witness on matters of RV build, function, and usability.
One of the reasons why RV dealers are just now starting to push their own "inspections", is because RV buyers are becoming increasingly aware of the large and growing number of INDEPENDENT RV inspectors around the country, who are operating under the Standards of Practice and Code of Ethics of the National RV Inspectors Association (NRVIA). It used to be that there were few RV inspectors and most of them had little to no formal training. The level of service that you got from each different inspector could vary widely. Some were great, couldn't identify a flat tire, if they were looking at it. But with the advent of the NRVIA, all that is changing. There are many more and much better inspectors available today, than just a few years ago.
If an inspector is NRVIA certified, it means that he/she has taken classes, specifically aimed at RV inspection. Also, in order to maintain their certification, NRVIA inspectors must take continuing education classes, just like other professionals, and abide by the NRVIA Standards of Practice and Code of Ethics. Although I've done nothing new, in the way of marketing, I've seen my business grow dramatically over the last year or so. Last month (November) was my biggest month, yet. I was actually having to send business to other RV inspectors. That's all because the word is getting around and more people know that there are such people as certified RV inspectors.
FYI, most dealerships of which I am aware, who charge for their inspections, list between 50 and 100 points of inspection. An NRVIA Level 2 RV inspector starts with over 300 points of inspection and some, like myself, go well beyond that, by doing such things as reading computer error codes, using thermal imaging, taking moisture meter readings, verifying 7-pin connector operation (either output from a motorized RV or input to a towable RV), and more.
As Steve suggests, if you are of a certain mindset, you can do your own inspection. But without a full complement of the proper tools, you can't do a "complete" inspection. I carry an OBD (on-board diagnostic) code reader for both OBD2 and HD-OBD, a thermal camera, a contact moisture meter, a non-contact (through-the-wall) moisture meter, a MUTT box (simulates a tow vehicle for testing running lights and brakes on a towable RV), a trailer light circuit tester (simulates a trailer for testing running light and brake signals from a motorized RV), a manometer (gas pressure gauge), a large inspection mirror (for examining under the coach), a borescope (for looking behind and inside things where you might not be able to see directly), a tire pressure gauge capable of reading over 150 psi, a volt-ohm meter, a 100 foot extension cord (for hot-skin test), a 15.5 foot ladder (because you should not trust the ladders on the back of most RVs), wheel chocks (for when you're on the roof), and several other things that don't come to mind right now.
It's a good idea to do your own inspection, before hiring a professional RV inspector. After all, that preliminary inspection may save you the cost of hiring a professional inspector. But without the tools we carry, it's just not possible to do a complete RV inspection.
One final point. Price. I don't know of any NRVIA certified RV inspector who charges anywhere close to $2,000 for an inspection. There may be one or two out there, who offer some premium service that will raise their price close to that range. But if there are, I've never heard of them. Some inspectors in highly competitive markets or who are trying to get a new RV inspection business off the ground, may charge $500 or even less, for a towable inspection. OTOH, where the market is not heavily saturated with inspectors, you might find an established inspector who may charge over $1,000 for a motorized inspection, especially if he takes fluid samples for analysis. For example, my most expensive service is $1,100, including 5 fluid samples. But I tend to be near the high end and that's only because I provide services that extend well beyond the NRVIA Standards of Practice. So the idea of a 100-point or even 200-point, $2,000 inspection from a dealer is absolutely ludicrous.
BTW, I strongly recommend getting a full battery of fluids analysis, on motorized RVs (engine oil, engine coolant, generator oil, generator coolant, and transmission fluid).
Get your coach professionally inspected by an NRVIA Level 2 inspector, before you sign on the line. Thank you, Steve, for bringing the very valuable point up to your viewers.
Need to give a shout out to Cowboys RV Mart in Arizona. We bought a used RV from them and during their FREE inspection, they found a defective control board in the refrigerator. When they did a virtual walk through with us over Viber, they showed us the refrigerator had been repaired and everything operating properly before it was delivered to us in California. We were very pleased with our purchase and I highly recommend them to anyone who, as opposed to your advice, wants to buy an RV.
That's how it should be. Thanks for the note.
As the owner of a pop-up, two travel trailers, and a motorhome, you speak the truth. They are all junk - the only difference is how close to the dumpster they are. Some are better than others, but all of them will need constant upkeep, repair, and service. If you aren't prepared or capable of doing it yourself you're in for a horrible, horrible experience.
We recently just parted with what will be our last RV after 40 years of RV camping and it comes with mixed feelings. On the one hand we'll miss the camping experiences and all the great people we met. On the other we're glad to be rid of it and done with it.
Just found your channel and we love it. Good stuff. Thanks for what you do!
The biggest problem is, finding an independent inspector who is good, knowledgeable, trustworthy, and willing to come out and inspect the RV. It's like trying to find a good plumber … mechanic … electrician … bodyman …. you name it, it's like pulling teeth trying to find good honest people nowadays to do anything on your schedule and for a reasonable fee. So, it's no wonder people get taken advantage of, there's not enough "good guys" to go around, and VERY difficult to find them.
You’re right. I’ve purchased brand new RV’s before and have one now. But I know how this all works and I use it enough and enjoy it enough that I’m willing to deal with whatever repairs I need to make. Many of them I can do myself. The minute you think you’ve found that “one honest dealer/salesmen around”, you’ve found the smoothest talker, that’s all.
I had a dealer here in California try that with me. I told them No. They told me it was required. I told them that they could either sell me the RV, or I could leave. Guess what, I left with the RV with no "inspection".
Hi Thomas. Do you know if that dealer allows outside inspectors?
I never owned or worked at an RV dealership. But I did work at a car dealership. When we got a shipment of cars in the first thing we did was take inventory against the manifest (matching VIN on the car against the VIN on the manifest.) the second thing we did was "Inspect the vehicles condition. We noted every nick, scratch, dent, ding, smudge. I have a hard time believing that a dealership "NEW or USED" would accept delivery of an RV without an inspection.
Had a car serviced once, asked the Service Manager if the check-sheet (with every line item checked and costed) had been properly done. On his assurances, I then demanded a full set of new wiper-blades (which had not been changed), as they had been checked and passed as good when they were patently not. I got it, but only because I refused to go into a side office to discuss the matter. I transacted that discussion in the Service Reception, in front of several customers waiting to collect their own vehicles.
If you decide to get the dealer’s inspection, demand a full written report. It must list all components, structures and systems, and state that they are all in good or new condition, and fully functional. Then immediately get your own inspection. If defects are found which their inspection stated did not exist, then they are committing fraud because they either did no inspection or they did the inspection, found the defect, and lied about it. You now have the basis for civil action to make it right, criminal action to punish them, and action against their business license to get rid of a crooked business.
Excellent ! Informative and revealing. As a RV repair pro I've done Pre-Delivery Inspections and saved my customers tens of thousands. The dealerships often send a junior (expendible) tech out to the lot to do PDI's, or only allot an hour or less to check all systems. Your advice to hire an independent is golden. Thanks for the video!
That happened to me. It was a pop up camper. It was a brand new one and the price was right but than with mandatory inspection they wanted to charge made the price unappealing so I tried to option out of the inspection and they said no so I walked out. They didn’t tell me about the mandatory inspection til we sat down and started negotiating the price and they included into the price. Now this pop up was around $8,000 so you can imagine the free money they wanted to get for just selling me a camper. I couldn’t pay them that kind of money for doing nothing.
Just got back from an RV dealer here in colorado. Tried to purchase a used camper and I was told that I had to purchase a "mandatory dealer installed anti-sway system" for $800+tax, including a $499 handling fee. Huh? the thing was just traded in by the salesperson's admission. I told the guy that I had an anti-sway hitch already. He told me it was mandatory. Right. Next.
This has been going on for years I bought a used RV in 2015 and the dealer charged me $2,000 for a pre-delivery inspection fee, which made no sense, because it was sold "as is" , so no warranty
Geez, thats messed up!
Whenever I buy a car one of the highlights is when the salesman tells me about the mandatory "documentation fee". Always such a good laugh. My reaction to this scam would be the same.
I was going t buy an RV but now they all seem like piles of crap backed by crooks.
They are horrendous piles of junk.. even the so called "high dollar units " unbelievable that they can even sell these things
If a dealer is trying to charge you to inspect an RV they are selling you, DONT BUY IT. Run, don't walk, out of that dealer. Even if they offer to do it for free after you threaten to leave, if they are willing to try this, who knows what else they are going to do. Take it as a huge sign of what they are about and get out of there!
When I declined the pricey extended warranty, Camper World told me that neither the manufacturer warranty or dealer warranty would apply because the unt was a demonstrator. Then they wanted me to sign an acknowledgement that I had declined the extended warranty. That acknowledgement contained a hold harmless clause for the dealer. I walked away from this manipulation and scam. Have heard similar encounters with Camper World. Appears to be a corporate tactic.
Thanks Steve - great information. I check even new cars. Frustrates car dealers. As an engineer, I don't care who I piss off
For the water check, find your local blue beacon truck wash. Blue beacon uses a high volume, low pressure water rinse from a system on the ceiling to rinse the big rigs off after washing. Ask them ahead of time of you can bring your RV in and open the slides (the bays are usually wide enough to at least mostly open them) and run the overhead rinse system for ten minutes or so. I would think that would find leaks pretty quickly.
Rob Miller à
Why in the world would a BRAND NEW RV even NEED to be inspected? Doesn't the Manufacturer have a Quality Control Department???
No.
Have you seen how quick most RV's are slapped together ? Suprised most of them don't fall apart in shipping to the dealer let alone everyday use by a family.
Unfortunately, this is a fairly common scam. I ran into it myself. I asked for RFPs (Request for Proposals) from every RV dealer prior to purchase. In the negotiation with the dealer, I demanded the out the door price including all fees and charges. One dealer commented to me "...you will hang me with this agreement if I don't do what is in it..." I replied yes just do what we agreed to and we will be fine. The entire transaction was documented in writing prior to signing paperwork and I forced them to conform the paperwork to what we agreed to. Prior to delivery, I took an entire day to inspect the RV front to back top to bottom. I used an RV inspection checklist to make sure I covered everything. Even though I have the skills to do an inspection I would also pay a person to do an inspection as well in the future. If enough of us customers demand quality and insist on open and properly negotiated deals we can have a powerfull impact on the RV business. Did I have dealers refuse to sell me a rig because they could tell that I was not purchasing on emotion and insisted that everything be in writing in advance? Yes, I did. But there is always a dealer who is willing to give you the deal you want and negotiate on the terms you are willing to live with. These scammer dealers are able to get away with this nonsense because people fall for it. I even negotiate the "documentation fee" charged by many dealers. Bottom line we as consumers must insist on reading every paper we are asked to sign and if we don't agree to make them change it if we don't agree. I have no problem sitting around a dealer's showroom at 10 PM at night waiting around for them to agree to change a portion of the contract I don't like. There are exceptions in cases where the dealer has a one of a kind unit or a high demand unit which puts you into a harder negotiation position.
Excellent tips!
RFP’s in a private setting are excellent. 10/10 listen to this man
Some RV dealers will not let you inspect the RV before buying. They will not place a deep cycle battery in, or battery for generator, fill propane, or hook up to water or sewer while on their lot. Think about what Steve says...do you think they are hooking up everything to inspect the stove and light the oven? No, because they do not fill the propane tanks until sold. They do not put water in at all. Think about that for a minute.
Don't know what Rv dealers these people are dealing with but I don't know of any dealers in my area doing this. I've owned a Motorhome got it factory direct when it was delivered I was given a complete walk through at no additional cost and was shown everything worked. I sold that RV after 6 years and am looking at buying another. But thanks for the heads up on this scam I will be watching for it.
This guy is good - I like him, informative and saving folks money
Now that I've owned my RV for a while, I would be much better at inspecting the next one. But with what I now know, there likely won't be a next one.
As a person who I knew years ago told me, "folks who buy an RV are not buying an RV, they really buying a dream of a carefree traveling lifestyle". I wish I had a dollar for every RV I see sitting in yards unused and deteriorating for one reason or another. Their dream is probably a faded memory now that they may still be making payments on. I am astounded when I here how many years folks finance their RV's for.
In 1987, we were THINKING about buying a travel trailer. We had previously owned a small cab-over camper unit, which fit on a Toyota P/U. Nice, but not much room. With a Grand Canyon vacation being planned, we decided to RENT a travel trailer, to be towed behind our current Chevy van. Now, years later, after owning a fifth-wheel TT and then a regular travel trailer, I've come back to the reasoning that RENTING is the only way to take an RV vacation. No maintenance worries, no storage problems, and no purchase expense.
And places like Camping World push the financing hard. They want people to finance, because they make enormous amounts more money that way, and their contracts are often terrible.
We use ours once or twice a month. The dream lives for some of us.
Another dealer service fee out there is something called a conditioning fee. After speaking with the dealer I found out all that essentially is a 1,700 USD car wash. This is why I always try to negotiate an out the door price. One thing I never understood is why it’s legal for anyone to charge a mandatory and popup (no pun intended) add-on fee above the purchase price for a consumable product. In other words all mandatory fees should be rolled into the window sticker price. Sadly the price is not the price when it comes to so many high value purchases.
RVs seem to be made by the drunks that weren't allowed to work in car factories anymore.
Meth heads. It's necessary because the pace is so fast, and, yes, the workmanship is crappy - cut corners, just get it out the door.
Troy Sanchez Made in America!
Go ahead and trust their $2000 inspection if they will trust the credit inspection you do of yourself and charge them $200 to do it. Remember to give yourself a 900 credit score for the loan they are giving you.
I've worked as a diesel mechanic for 25 years!! I cant tell you how many RVs I've worked on!! And we arent talking about older models but ones that have been on the road for 6 months to a year!! And these are the big expensive ones not the little ones!! They dont have the same engine safeties as OTR trucks!! I've seen brand new Detroit's blown up and because the owner didnt pull over in time ( it's all computerized) the factory will void the warranty and now their stuck with a 10 to 15,000 dollar rebuild!! On something they just paid 200 or 300,000 for!! I work for international trucks and dealerships arent cheap we charge 125 dollars an hour even on warranty work!! Somebody is gonna pay and its generally the poor schmuck who owns it rather than the dealership!!
I wouldn’t trust an RV dealer to inspect anything! The only thing they inspect is your wallet. RV selling is the biggest scam industry I’ve ever seen.
Just found you thru RV travel Newsletter. I found you informative. I don't care what others say about your looks nor should you. I care about what you can add to the collective wisdom. I suppose if you were charging for this you could afford a better lighting guy. Thanks for the free information and taking the time to do this.
You are so right! Although I've worked for a couple dealers as a salesperson and I've never seen this personally, but I wouldn't be surprised if this became a standard practice (such as the "freight and prep" fees you often hear about). I do training with RV's and I always encourage everyone to fully research their purchase beforehand, and make sure you have the facts before signing on the dotted line!
And I can tell you all about BRAND NEW RV's falling apart or breaking down - mine did too!
BTW a local Hyundai dealer would not sell you a Hyundai unless you paid them to "inspect It" while they undercoated it.
See it was for your own good that you had to buy undercoating, otherwise you would not get their valuable "inspection".
Had a friend who was a mechanic there.
Said he never heard of a single car failing that "inspection" and that Hyundais leave the factory with undercoat,
So you would be paying the dealer to undercoat your undercoating.
A man with an education and common sense. I really enjoy your youtube videos.
The inspection consists of filling out a sheet with 120 check marks
I just bought one in California and the stealer was trying to charge me this fee. I told them no, I won't pay for this service They threw it in as well as full propane tanks and a battery.
Happened to me. Paid for inspection. Took delivery. Air conditioner did not work and had plumbing leak at kitchen counter - easily discoverable discrepancies upon mandatory "pdi", pre delivery "inspection".
Same thing can said for Home inspection and Marine inspections .. if they miss anything it ain't their problem...
I understand, as a home inspector. I fully inspect a home the right way. Unfortunately some things do not show up and some buyers are expecting no issues to ever come up. If I miss something major that is why I have insurance. The problem I see is with brand new home owners who do not know which end to use the screwdriver. Or buying on beer budget expecting it to taste like Crown Royal... I take close to 5 hours on my inspections, agents do not like it...
I deliver RVs to the dealerships for a living. They inspect the units when I deliver them before they pay me. It takes anywhere from 10-30 minutes. From there the unit is cleaned and thrown on the sales lot. I also do independent inspections for 125.
Thanks, Steve. This is a classic case of the fox guarding the hen house.
I sold RV's at a large dealership for 4 years, it was actually a lot of fun and we treated the customer with respect. There were 4 stores at the time and lots more now so I can't say much about what goes on today but back in 2000 we didn't pull any sketchy games during (or after) a sale.
When any RV was delivered to us, a salesperson was required to check in/inspect it before we signed for it. There were about 200 details to look at. If we found something wrong we just wrote it on the factory paperwork and gave a copy to the delivery driver. Then it went into our shop for repair because we got paid by the factory to fix it as warranty work!
This scam sounds like the dealer double dipping because ALL RV Mfrs cover any delivery issues as warranty work. If someone told me I HAD to pay them to inspect my purchase I'd leave and not come back.
The dealer/salesperson is not your friend. Do your homework before you shop.
Thanks for the note. I appreciate the insight.
I believe the same conflict of interest occurs when buying a house and the buyers agent, or even the sellers agent recommends or "hires" the inspector prior to sale!
Actually there’s quite a few people that need RVI for one I travel around and build power plants all around the United States so instead of staying at in of an expensive motel I invested in RV because an RV lot rent is 600 to $900 a month cheaper than a motel so therefore I need an RV
I travel around the states as a welder, and actually dont have a home or property. The 40k I spent on my rv 'home' was worth it.
I don't get this at all. What would people do if they buy a $60,000 brand new car and the dealer says, "Oh, wait! We are required to do an inspection on your new car. It'll cost you another $1,000". Who wouldn't walk away from that dealer and find another?
James Fulks They do similar crap though. 1,000 dollar destination fee and or 300 dollar doc fees. Don’t get me started on legal fees! Lol. Lawyers are the worst. Lol
As you put out this video, I think people were saying "enough" sales fell 30% in units from 9/17 to 9/18. You can google map the Goshen area of Indiana and see yards with 1000s of RVs just sitting. Some sit up to a year before shipping. Anywsy, now that sales are down, you don't have to put up with shenanigans like that.
Good timing for this video. I just saw a video last night about the nightmare someone was having with their 5th wheel. Someone commented that Camping World charges for the PDI.
The day I buy a vehicle and the seller says I have to pay a mandatory fee of $1500-$2000 to have that vehicle inspected I’m going to say, “See ya.”
Having owned my 1979 Airstream travel trailer since 1984 ,with zero major issues in nearly 40 years I can't bring myself to buy a new model,not even a new Airstream even though I can see the superior workmanship that goes into the models I've owned or looked at,after hearing the horror stories on the www when we began our search for a new model travel trailer I gave up on buying a new model,I remodeled our decades old Airstream using all top of the line materials like marble counters ,tuck & roll leather seating etc,im good to go for another 40 years ,while not the most spacious Airstream does make the industrys best travel trailers .
A good rule of thumb is that the newer an RV is, the worse the quality of it.
Sounds like camping world 100%
Another informative video. FYI....just watched a video about a guy in Las Vegas who won a lemon law case on his Dodge Hellcat. It seems he had and is still having problems even though he won. Interesting to watch.
I've seen it. Chrysler is horrible on buybacks, even after they have committed to them.
Next time I buy a house I should have the home seller do the prepurchase inspection for me.
I can't wait to see what the RV dealers have to say in response to this video. The replies will be epic.
Thanks for the info Steve. You just earned a subscriber. It took me a few trade ins before I started figuring these guys out. I would never buy from a big chain rv place. They seem to be the ones who do it most.
We consigned ours through our local dealer. They took 11 months to "sell" it. Went over mid summer to see what was taking so long and there were 2 Rvs on the lot. Turns out he was embezzling and had sold our RV the day before. Check bounced. Stopped him in the lot and drove him to the bank. We got out money. 57 others are our 800 thousand.
Love the info on the Chrysler Turbine car. I grew up in Warren, Michigan in the 60’s, and my neighbor was an engineer at the Chrysler headquarters just down the road. His name was Gordon Buchanan. He drove home one of the turbine cars one summer day, and gave rides to the neighborhood kids! I did not get in the car, for whatever reason, but as a 10 year old, I still remember the sound the car made. Awesome. My other neighbor’s brother worked at Ford, and he too brought home one of the very first Mustangs ever made, and I did get a ride in it. Coolest thing about growing up in the Detroit area!
I would like an RV. I'm glad for Lehto's information. He gives information and a person can formulate questions to do online research for RV's and when looking for an RV. It doesn't mean that I will get honest answers from a salesperson. It means that I will have information AND ANSWERS at the time I am talking to the sales person. I will know if he's telling the whole story or not. I've been successful in "big ticket sales" and I do not have a lot of tolerance for most sales persons. The "however" is that I am not educated on EVERYTHING that sales people sell. I appreciate this information.
48 dealers didn’t like this video.
Having an RV inspection is like the guys calling you up for a free home water test to see if you need a water softener. Wonder what the results are going to be?
Even if you are qualified to do it, reasons to go 3rd party is, you will miss things because you're excited and will miss things.
How liable is an outside hired inspector if something is broken in the RV but not shown in the inspection?
The semi heavy duty truck sales is a huge crap shoot too. They said its been inspected but what they wont tell you is the guy inspecting is just out of high school and they wont have the tech with 10+ years experience to inspect it because it would be in the shop for the next month.
Same with used car inspections they have techs that just do "used car inspections" and they just pull it in breeze over the car and call it good. Ive inspected atleast 100 "dealer certified used cars and most have some issue. If not a major issue they are trying to fudge over.
That's why I have any car I'm buying inspected at the repair shop that I have built a relationship with over 10 or so years. It really does pay to go to a local guy for your work, you get to know and trust each other.
Another Pet PEEVE I have is sales tax!!! It should ONLY be able to be charged the FIRST time a vehicle is sold!!!! The Gument is double, triple , quadruple....etc.... taxing ALL vehicles that are sold. HOW IS THAT FAIR?????? IF a vehicle is sold for the 10th time by a dealer, YOU have to pay SALES TAX on it!!!!
How unreliable must RV manufactors be if they wouldn't do a total inspection of the RV and all of it's systems before delivery to the selling dealer. You know they must try to deliver a vehicle that can be sold without problems. Crazy way for dealers to pad their bottom line.
RV's are pretty much cardboard boxes on wheels put together in about a day. Oh and I just bought one in April. ;)
So far so good and no $2,000 dealer inspection on a 13 k trailer.
you would be shocked how shoddily-built things like this are. Conversion vans (remember those?) trailers, RVs, buses, etc. even the worst modern car or pickup truck is built 5,000,000 times better and more consistently.
its like- imagine if Honda only built the outer shells of their vehicles (body, engine, chassis, exterior lights) then sent them to some cut-rate car audio shop staffed by kids to do all of the interior wiring and trim.
yes. that bad.
Some of the lower volume manufacturers like Grand Design does have a separate facility that does a pre-delivery inspection before the trailers head to the dealer. But their are others where the production team is under pressure to deliver as many as possible. If there are any problems, they just leave it up to the dealer to fix it. Unfortunately, many dealers do not have a sufficient service department to make repairs in a timely matter. The same may be true with the builder. I just saw a video yesterday with a couple that had problems with their 5th wheel. They ended up taking it back to Forest River. Ten production lines and only one for repairs. It took them over two months to get repairs that they were not happy with.
Never ever ever buy a RV. I live in Elkhart Indiana, 80 percent of the RVs built are built in Elkhart county and it's a running joke about the workmanship and quality of parts used in the RV industry. The only requirement for employment is you have a heartbeat and can pass a pre employment drug test, no skills required. They use the cheapest parts they can buy regardless of quality. Buyers can expect every RV to have some repair issues, even on a new unit. You have been warned......
Of course all rvs require something to repair. I mean, what did you expect? 99.9% picture perfect rvs coming off the line? We all know they are cheap for light weight and to make a buck for the company. But what can someone do....Let the buyer beware.
So, you say don't purchase an rv? Then what? A tent?
I went looking with a dealer. A second couple joined me. Inside, I ran my finger down the kitchen cabinets. The laminated fake wood just flaked off like it was dry rotted. 5 seconds later, the female broke off something on the kitchen. Within seconds of that, a dude sat down in the living room, put his hands back and broke the window covering from the wall. The dealer was leaning on the kitchen island, ready to brag on the new rv...
Then he seemed to change his mind and gave an entire speech on which models are for crap and which aren't. He even showed brands on his lot NOT to ever buy.
In somme States, inspectors are licensed and bonded. They have to sign off on the condition of the unit. If the inspector at the dealer is NOT licensed, report them.
I know people are new but there 3 times worse than a used car sales man . I will never step foot in Camping World in any state . they are the worst ones. look at the truth about camping world on utube. its long but good. thanks keep up the good work
I didn't know scammers could be that bold! Amazing.
Thanks! I wish I would of known this before I bought my RV trailer. It leaked after it rain for the first time, I sealed the window myself, then, where the solar wire came in it leaked and I had to seal that. I have been considering trading it in until I heard this. You have helped me make my decision. Again thanks for the information.
Debra Fry Or maybe even read a grammar book.
@@davemojarra2666
Rude!😕
Avoid the hassle go to haylett Auto and RV Supercenter in Coldwater Michigan speak to Josh he'll get you done the right way honestly no dealer fees no inspections straight up family business👍
A casual day shopping looking at RV's at any price point will reveal what complete GARBAGE these monstrosities are. Seriously, build a shitty aluminum or fiberglass box, and fill iwth shitty cabinetry and call it an RV. You can build your own for far cheaper, and that will last as long as you design it for. I'd love to buy a bare chassis to build one. But cargo vans are more in my budget right now. Mine will last as long as a base cargo van will run. Building a mobile music recording studio in mine. All for much less than the complete crap flimsy junk you'd find at any RV dealer. Need more space, add a well built cargo trailer. Cargo vans and trailers even used will outlast any crap dealer RV. Done and done.
The dealer should do a PMI when it is delivered to the dealership and any little issue is annotated and the manufacturer refunds costs to fix items. They do not fix it and pocket the money hoping you don't notice these issues before you buy.
If they claim it is mandatory then tell them a different shop you would like it inspected at.
I've seen car dealers in DFW try this. They tell you they inspect each vehicle and tack on 1500$ as an 'inspection fee' and sometimes attached with a useless aftermarket warranty so full of holes it is worthless - and you have to pay for it. This was the used car lot of a Nissan dealer, whom has since changed their name.
What I want to know is who are "they" saying makes this inspection mandatory, DMV, state law, local ordinance, police, or who? This has to be fairly new because I used to be in the RV business and never heard of it. By the way, an RV is any vehicle, driveable or towable, that you can, in a sense, live in other than a tent.
They aren't saying it's anyone else. They are saying its mandatory if you want to buy it from them. It's a take it or leave it proposition. And yes, it is fairly new. I had not heard of it until this summer. I am now hearing from people in other states who have encountered it at dealers other than the one I am referencing. And, judging by the attacks from people IN the RV industry, I suspect it is about to become even more widespread (if we can't get the word out.)
Car dealerships are also trying to charge the buyer for their own company certification! A VW dealer did this to us when we bought a 2016 Passat. I said I’m walking if that charge isn’t removed. They removed the charge. I almost walked just because I was pissed about how they try to roll these charges onto the buyer.
Interesting videos you post Steve. Thought provoking.
I will never own an RV, but I have a fascinating friend ( he simulates" meals when he is in a restaursnt-long story) so after your video, I said to him," I am going to sell a buggy[not really] and say, "btw, there is a Mandatory inspection fee of $200.00"
He drew on his pipe and replied," you are going to simulate a 'mandate', I presume."
Camper World charges $1k for "Orientation" for your new campers. They told me that, and I said "we are done here"....
Yes, saw trailer on internet. Called Camping World about the used trailer and they told me that the price did not include the inspection fee. I think he said it would be 1000 dollars extra. I found one elsewhere.
Mike Brandenburg camping world is notorious
Ok what if they fail the inspestion keep your 2k for said inspection but offer to sell you another more expensive RV that also needs another inspection seems like a win win for them
I wouldn't pay them ten cents to inspect the thing they're trying to sell.
I would say, "OK, I'll have it inspected by an outside certified NIRVA inspector before I buy it." They say you have to have it inspected, but they didn't say it had to be by them. I know a certified inspector who hired another inspector to inspect his RV before buying it because he knew he could not be objective.
In 1999 I bought a new Newmar LondonAire bus, their top of line RV then (about $400000 in 1999).. It was a lemon. Dealer disclaimed all warranties on sales contract, and FL courts ruled that this resulted in no warranties, even though I had a 3 year written warranty from Newmar. On appeal I successfully argued that the $295 charged by the dealer for the PDI resulted in a warranty, at least under FL law. See
caselaw.findlaw.com/fl-district-court-of-appeal/1169940.html
I got to Pensacola often as some in-laws live in the area. Reading through the appeal that you linked it appears that you did not have to pay their attorney fees as in the previous judgement. My question is what was the final conclusion in this saga? Were they forced to fix your RV under warranty, buy it back, or what?
@Kevin G. We, the dealer and bank, settled by agreeing that the dealer would "fix" and sell the Lemonaire and we then split the proceeds. Big loss for me.
There is an RV dealer here in Florida advertising warranty for life. The catch is a requirement to have unit inspected each year at inflated prices. I have not read the warranty but I would guess it only covers the frame and exterior. The appliances probably not covered.
Thx for the tip.
You should ask for a copy of the inspection report and make sure whoever did it signs the report 👍
"See if there's some way you can simulate rain..."
Now I'm picturing some guy on the roof of an RV taking a whizz...
Why are people such trolls? You are giving free of your time, and they are attacking you for it.
Thank you for the information, I appreciate it. I am in Canada but some of the same sales info.
Many of the "critics" are the ones who work in the industries I criticize. I guess it's to be expected.
Lol to true! And they also probably were happy with the last election despite what the fake news says...
Steve Lehto Exactly, the disreputable dealers don't like you spoiling the party! Thanks for the info.
At the time I’m watching this video there are 541 dislikes. These are all probably RV dealers! Thanks for the info!
No contract should be able to negate your rights, or be used to cover up negligence or intentional malfeasance.
Congrat's Steve on that anniversary.
This is truly a scam that has been discussed on other websites. I'm sure this video will inform a few thousand people who are not aware of the other sites reporting this scam. Unfortunately this practice appears to be implemented by most if not all RV dealerships. I'm also expecting car dealerships to start charging for inspection and/or wiping down the exterior and vacuuming the interior when selling a new car.
It reminds me of auto repair shops that charge for shop supplies. I remember when the practice of charging for shop supplies started many years ago. Back then you could usually have the charge removed but most repair shops now refuse to remove it.
I foresee a surcharge in larger grocery store chains to have a cashier ring up your groceries vs self checkout. Businesses are trying to squeeze every last dollar out of of their customers.
What you do is ask for a written itemized bill, then tell them I"m walking out unless you remove this, this and this!
The two best days in a RV owners life - the day they buy it and the day they sell it.
That especially applies to boats.
I've never owned an RV, but I'll wager you are correct.
PDI (Pre Destination Inspection) It is mandatory everywhere. even down here in Mississippi. although those prices are outrageous. never the less it is mandatory for the dealer to inspect each RV before it leaves. We don't charge for PDI's.
Mandatory? Can you give me a citation of the law requiring it in Michigan?
Thanks for what you offer and provide to the list of Taken RV owners whom in good faith purchased from what they thought was a reputable dealership minimally. Steve I think this industry is filled with apathy, collusion and lack of true competition such as American Car Companies had the luxury of prior to the 1980's. What I would like to see is salespeople and company's own service people subpoenaed to create a record of honesty. I also don't see how a dealership can prove they did an inspection versus found and repaired problems? Having never purchased an RV before I was expecting our salesperson whom we got to know after the sale well until the problems started lol to steer us in whatever way he was allowed to avoid buying from Thor. Nope after the sale and problems were found they stated "I was actually surprised you bought a Thor?". Should have known something was wrong when before we left the lot the director of RV finance was explaining to us how to effectively handle any service issues and because he liked us I actually think we trying to do us a favor? Yeah get statements on the record from our salesperson and that director and tell me the dealership is covered?
They always give a doctor and a lawyer a license to practice. When will they ever get enough practice.
Sounds like common sense. Great video thanks for sharing
All you have to do is say, I'm not paying that and turn around to leave, The salesman will magically come up with a way to waive the fee.
The RV industry found a very creative
way to get them off the hook from lawsuits
& customer is paying them for it.
Congrats on the anniversary...
There are some honest local RV dealers out there. Find one and get your RV there. My locally owned and managed dealer did the inspection and walk through with me present and didn't charge me anything. I learned a few things and have been around RVs my entire life. I would not buy anything from Camping World!
Hello Steve. First time viewer here. I was laid off by Canopy Country RV, in Yakima, WA. owned by Todd Munson in November of 2019. I was given the reasoning of slow sales, which is true, it was slow. Todd hired a guy 1 1/2 years earlier who took an 'online' RV course to become certified, which he took and passed. He still has no real hands on experience. (I am not certified).
I didn't take the course because of fatigue of daily RV work before the slow down in sales. We were hopping at one point. And neither did the other two guys there. When the new guy came on board, sales and service were slow, so he did not feel the fatigue that the rest of us did. He had far more time, and less fatigue than anyone else did.
His work included nearly burning up two different RV wiring systems while installing a sway bar hitch kit. He pinched some wires between the hardware and the frame (twice), smoke was everywhere. He has broken different things and walked away thinking that no one would know that he did it. He "repaired" a roof and at both front corners inside the bedroom of a coach, he collapsed the corners so that there were huge gaps between the ceiling and the trim. He didn't bother to check his work .
I have worked in the RV industry since 1991 nearly non-stop up until November 2019. I was laid off even though my experience far exceeds his. I was told by another employee that the whole idea behind him being made a tech is that owner Todd Munson could charge customers more money. Is that true? Can he charge customers more money even if the new guy has no experience? It certainly is unethical.
I am 62, the new guy is 27. On a nearly everyday basis, I was reminded about my age by other workers. I now believe that the other guys had a heads up of what the owner was planning. Even though I am not slow at all, I am a young 62 who still can get it done in a timely manner. So, I thing age discrimination is a factor. Maybe the biggest factor.
My question is: Can an RV dealer charge more money because he has a so-called 'Certified' Tech on-hand ? (Even if he doesn't have the skills to be called that).
You should look up the Age Discrimination in Employment Act (1967), and talk to a lawyer.
Same reason an accounting firm can charge you more when a cpa does your taxes, even though they will do the same job a non-cpa does.