I really appreciate the videos that you make, & I'm learning lots on what not to do! Thanks Tatro , your a very good teacher!!! Can't wait to see this build on u tube, when you're done !
Had one of his front ends on a 69 boneville chopper .... it was unusually stable for being so long , didnt realize he built motors and frames too.... have fun building flanges for those spigots
I would love to hear that Harmon motor run, I know it's pretty crude by today's standards, but John Harmon was light years ahead of everyone when it came to these motors and his chrome-moly front ends and frames etc... it would have been great to see what he would have come up with had he lived, people like him come around once in a lifetime, RIP Mr Harmon
a mate of mine has got one in new zealand hes spent 30 grand and 20+ years and hes still trying to work it thru all the gremlins youll get it done mate and properly knowing your workman ship
looks cool, when you showed the head i laughed, valves are ridiculous! i can't imagine what it must feel like to ride that thing when its done. nice bike mate, cheers.
that still might happen. turbos do not work very will on harleys because of the odd firing pattern. with supercharges you have to deal with the drive and backfiring if it is a roots type. i will see the reps at sema this year and get the latest info. tatro
Tatro Machine By odd firing pattern I guess you mean one cylinder firing 1 rev +/-45 degrees after the other. Could you smooth out the air flow by making a plenum the size of 1 cylinder or bigger? That way the turbo works continuously to fill the plenum...I guess you would still wind up with uneven pressure charges. I don't see how a supercharger will be different...unless the exhaust pulses driving the turbo are a factor. How about dual turbos and separate manifolds?
michaellfbvr right on most of what you stated.the super-charger is a direct flow device or positive displacement. one turn puts out a set amount of flow. a turbo is not a positive displacement device. it is a pressure driven device. you can have high rpm with no pressure. you have to have a load on the motor to make pressure & heat in the exhaust to drive the turbo. turbo's are more efficient but don't like uneven power pluses of a Harley. super-chargers don't care but the drive can be a problem. that drive pulley gets way out there in the wind and causes the crank to flex even more then it is now. outside supports get even wider. it starts to get stupid wide real fast.I like the idea of a turbo system but I need to get more info on how to make it work. twins or quads might work better then a single but for now I do not know.should know more after sema in a couple of weeks.tatro
Poor bike has another inch of dust on it and probably mold as it sits in a constant state of neglect 😪 If this was mine it would have been completed years ago. RIP John Harman, I know you're as bummed as anyone else who is watching this and probably more!
Put together from some parts (treasure) you had lying around? That's one serious machine. Strap yourself in, this build is going to be a good one! Street bike... :)
michaellfbvr I think I might need just a little extra passing power with all the traffic these days. there might also be a hill with a head wind so the turbo should help some when I need that little extra get up and go.I have a very big stash of parts, that was just one pile for one bike.this might get interesting.tatro
I know that this is an old video but I just finished watching it for the first time. Wondering if you ever finished it? Would really like to see a video of it running and someone riding it on the street and or dragstrip.
well cool, i too have a compleat unfired 120" HARMAN street motor setup xr style with a .650 lift REDSHIFT cam from ZIPPERS. dual KARATA mags, look foreward to finding more of your HARMAN build vids here on tube, have just subscribed to you with hope you can post more.
@@TatroMachine ditto mine 28 years since bought, but sofar iv not got around to fabbing a frame for it, made a reverse motor plate mor mounting gbox in front of the motor with intention of building a front wheel drive reverse trike, 3" bdl beltdrive & vertical mounted blower from a mini, but like you far too many customers jobs to do, so hardly ever the time to get it done.
much better, no. somewhat better, yes. i like the rollerized 4th gear. that is no more bushing. other than that it is no better than a stock trans with andrews gears that is half the cost. tatro
+mictho100 no fun yet. youtube is not allowing me to have fun on my toys. i am fixing toys for other people to have fun with. maybe i should get a real job. tatro
Hey tatro... I am building a dragbike just for fun... would a OEM shovelhead hold it? i am not going to make a rocket just something for having some fun in the weekends... big bore high comp... i got an stock shovelhead engine with rebuild bottom end in my shop with a 4 speed tranny
you have to have 4-3/4" or 5" stroke to make it go. 3-5/8 bore is next or 3-13/16 if you really want to get going with a 116" motor. a fxst 5sp is a must with a good 90's clutch. you are just wasting time with the 4sp. porting, cam and carb go together. just match them as a group to how big you want to go. 1-3/4" dual drag pipes about 30-34" are hard to beat. build it right and loose and the motor will take it. tatro
4 3/4 inch 5 inch great stroke but if you what it to last ! 4 1/2 stroke 3 13/16 bore 10.25 cr kick only build for a costmer 15 year's ago still running strong lienweber cam std head s 11.15 et 127 mph driving it too the track my advice find someone or sombody that races shovelhead it all in the heads cam piston combo
how fast do you expect to run with set up? I know a Harman shovel is well worth the bragging rights, but what about Sorensen Performance big inch engines?
+joseph laperuta 160 in the 1/4 and 230+ on the lakes would be nice. hard to beat inchs but good heads and a blower will get it done. pass the nitro please. tatro
Very nice ! I look forward to hearing this Beast come to life A question for you Kennan is it worth running a right side drive at the rear when the cubes reach 120 ?
spiritoflights right side drive has to do with how much offset you have to have to make your chain or belt clear your rear tire. when you get to 230 to 250 rear tire that is when you look into going that route. I am at the limit with my 225 rear tire. I would have to cut and widen my rear frame to make the right side chain work. there is no difference in strength between left side or right side drive tyranny's. the gears are all about the same. it is all about how the gears are made and how wide they are, not on were the sprocket is.tatro
No probs I was just thinking along the lines of the torque all pulling on the left side of the bike i read some where thats why sportsters were right side to balance it all when the motor pulls my way of thinking there is more strength when everythings in line less room for things to run out,so left or right side makes no difference to the gyroscopic effect of the bike under such torque i think in theory the bike would want to lean to the left,lets just say i'm thinkin out loud ha ha not that you don't have enough things to try and deal with already i'm just voicing my thoughts Good luck with this build it's going to be one nice bike in your capable hands keep up the great work kennan, Simon.
spiritoflights all that sounds good except Harley is not that smart on making their new models. they just copied what they had the model before and upgraded it. that is they fixed some of the older models problems as needed. the 1st new bike Harley came out with in decades is the v-rod and who cares? stay tuned because that is what all Harleys will look like in just a few more years. the new epa laws hit in 2018 and 2020 or 2023. here comes the new junk.now the left side drive started back in 1903 with a belt and 1913 or 14 i think was the 1st chain. they still have the left side drive on all the big twins to this day. the right side drive goes back to 1926 starting with a single cylinder bike. it turned into a twin in 1929. that turned into the 45, k-models, all the dirt track race bikes, the ironhead sportster, the evo xl'x and now the rubber xl's.Harley just doesn't make to many big changes, just updates.the reason big twins pull to the left is because of rear steer from flexing of the drive line. the heavy left-side weight of the bike also makes it fall to the left. sportsters have the right-side drive but are still heavy on the left-side so they still like to go to the left but not as much as the big bikes.custom bike went to right-side drive to balance the weight of the bikes. they got so far to the left you could barely ride them. with the right-side things went back to more of a balanced bike. the tranny strth had noting to do with it. it was just to make the bike rideable again with them big ass tires.keep on learning.tatro
Hey kennan, thanks for wording it so well, what i was getting at in a round about way,ive read a little bit of what your talking about with the early bikes having a belt and how harley just upgraded and improved on what they were doing ironing out the bugs in a manner of speaking,you can see how their bikes really evolved through the years i think it's a fascinating journey of engineering to see how they progressed from model to model through the early big v twins.I hear ya about the v-rod and epa laws it's all turning to electronic this and that and water cooled crap that's plugged into a computer to see whats going on very much like the cars of today it's a disposable plastic cigarette lighter society where living in now people buy a new car that is mass produced and not made to last cheap and nasty shiny pieces of shit that wear out all show and no go heaven help the modern consumer it's a dam vicious circle the automotive bondage that the little mans is held in it's all about screwing as much out of us as they can i think the greedy bastards there's certainly not the quality anymore living in today's world that there once was I recall you saying buyer beware that holds true in so many ways.It's great to see your videos rebuilding those old panhead heads keep up the great work/videos take care simon.
spiritoflights well said, just the way I see it.there is still hope in the hot-rodders and hackers. as they learn how to use their hands and minds they become talented. without want there is no need.I do my best to speed the process up.tatro
Do you know Tim Bell out of Grizzly cali on Tim Bell Lane . Old motor Head Tim Got one of Harmons Big Mills 150 in a shovel stile He got it Running. If you still Have it .
@@TatroMachineReason I asked Tim Bell did some work for Me . AndI lost his number . Like to talk with him he lives ip outta Grizzly Ca . TimBell lane . But cant find His number .
one problem with these street motor barrels is the head oil drains exit the liners too high up the stroke, meaning approx the top third or so is above the oil rings, what iv done with mine is to screw in a grubscrew into each drain hole in the heads & inserted hosetails for external oil drains, then redrilled through the liners a bit lower down. also if not wanting to make gaskets yourself, i recomend you contact LANNI at copper gaskets unlimited, coppergaskets.us/ as he made mine & should still have the details in his records.
I am trying to figure out if you were Bitching or Bragging about your Harmon engine. All I know is a unmolested Harmon engine tends to sell for big money if and when they come up for sale. John was a innovating creator of a lot of cool stuff and it a dam shame that he died so young. He was doing stuff back in the 80's that still has not been improved on today just only copied.
gullreefclub i don't brag, i let the time slip & the record book tell the truth. this motor was made after he died and was not machined correctly. that is one reason why this motor was not finished yet. at 400+ hp this motor will have to be updated or it will be a short lived motor. for me, the value in my parts are how fast they go, not who made them. time will tell. tatro
Yes they do I have two go then from eBay. Un . Machined heads. Cases were right on the money as I'm am a tool maker machinst for a living and have made go & no go gages for pan knucklehead shovelhead for cases have all numbers std. Panhead cases were the worst
because it needs tons of work to make all the parts to fit. just about every part i purchased for this bike is made wrong. just another 30 year project waiting for me to get back to it. tatro
If you can ever get the time and get all the parts to fit together, this would be one hell of a bike!
Won't happen, Cessna motor is the priority.
I really appreciate the videos that you make, & I'm learning lots on what not to do! Thanks Tatro , your a very good teacher!!! Can't wait to see this build on u tube, when you're done !
me too.
Had one of his front ends on a 69 boneville chopper .... it was unusually stable for being so long , didnt realize he built motors and frames too.... have fun building flanges for those spigots
That motor is massive. RIP John Harmon
It will just sit and rot.... sux man. Wish I could finish it.
You've got EVERYTHING you need to finish this beautiful bike yet procrastination stands in your way 😢
I would love to hear that Harmon motor run, I know it's pretty crude by today's standards, but John Harmon was light years ahead of everyone when it came to these motors and his chrome-moly front ends and frames etc... it would have been great to see what he would have come up with had he lived, people like him come around once in a lifetime, RIP Mr Harmon
it is a long way out before this bike runes. i have had this basic bike since the early 90's. as you can see, i am in no rush to finish it.
tatro
Cessna motor is the priority.
Can't wait to hear it fire up
Never happen
These motors were cutting edge back then and still can hang with what their building today !
in most ways it is still a better design.
tatro
a mate of mine has got one in new zealand
hes spent 30 grand and 20+ years and hes still trying to work it thru all the gremlins
youll get it done mate and properly knowing your workman ship
it is for sale in nz right now on trademe auction site for $45k
That's pretty cool I like it.
looks cool, when you showed the head i laughed, valves are ridiculous! i can't imagine what it must feel like to ride that thing when its done. nice bike mate, cheers.
K Freel the valves are small. the ports are big. the intake valve is going to get bigger.need more power.tatro
Tatro Machine
sounds fun. would like you know your thoughts on running a supercharger in place of the turbo?
that still might happen.
turbos do not work very will on harleys because of the odd firing pattern.
with supercharges you have to deal with the drive and backfiring if it is a roots type.
i will see the reps at sema this year and get the latest info.
tatro
Tatro Machine By odd firing pattern I guess you mean one cylinder firing 1 rev +/-45 degrees after the other. Could you smooth out the air flow by making a plenum the size of 1 cylinder or bigger? That way the turbo works continuously to fill the plenum...I guess you would still wind up with uneven pressure charges. I don't see how a supercharger will be different...unless the exhaust pulses driving the turbo are a factor. How about dual turbos and separate manifolds?
michaellfbvr right on most of what you stated.the super-charger is a direct flow device or positive displacement. one turn puts out a set amount of flow. a turbo is not a positive displacement device. it is a pressure driven device. you can have high rpm with no pressure. you have to have a load on the motor to make pressure & heat in the exhaust to drive the turbo. turbo's are more efficient but don't like uneven power pluses of a Harley. super-chargers don't care but the drive can be a problem. that drive pulley gets way out there in the wind and causes the crank to flex even more then it is now. outside supports get even wider. it starts to get stupid wide real fast.I like the idea of a turbo system but I need to get more info on how to make it work. twins or quads might work better then a single but for now I do not know.should know more after sema in a couple of weeks.tatro
Poor bike has another inch of dust on it and probably mold as it sits in a constant state of neglect 😪
If this was mine it would have been completed years ago. RIP John Harman, I know you're as bummed as anyone else who is watching this and probably more!
its all in parts spread all over the place. the motor is up behind the racebike next to a whole row of race motors.
tatro
Put together from some parts (treasure) you had lying around? That's one serious machine.
Strap yourself in, this build is going to be a good one!
Street bike...
:)
michaellfbvr I think I might need just a little extra passing power with all the traffic these days. there might also be a hill with a head wind so the turbo should help some when I need that little extra get up and go.I have a very big stash of parts, that was just one pile for one bike.this might get interesting.tatro
@@TatroMachine I've been watching your stuff for 8 years now. Geez i got to get a life!
I know that this is an old video but I just finished watching it for the first time. Wondering if you ever finished it? Would really like to see a video of it running and someone riding it on the street and or dragstrip.
no, the 30 year project is on hold again.
tatro
@Tatro Machine Thanks. I understand. Sounds like me with my 75 FLH shovelhead. Unfortunately it's turned into a lifelong project.
well cool, i too have a compleat unfired 120" HARMAN street motor setup xr style with a .650 lift REDSHIFT cam from ZIPPERS. dual KARATA mags, look foreward to finding more of your HARMAN build vids here on tube, have just subscribed to you with hope you can post more.
mine is a 28 year and going project.
tatro
@@TatroMachine ditto mine 28 years since bought, but sofar iv not got around to fabbing a frame for it, made a reverse motor plate mor mounting gbox in front of the motor with intention of building a front wheel drive reverse trike, 3" bdl beltdrive & vertical mounted blower from a mini, but like you far too many customers jobs to do, so hardly ever the time to get it done.
yes, we are saving it for future fun. the problem is that we have more than one of those.
tatro
are the baker transmission much better than just your regular stock transmissions ?? if so can you explain a little please John
much better, no. somewhat better, yes. i like the rollerized 4th gear. that is no more bushing. other than that it is no better than a stock trans with andrews gears that is half the cost.
tatro
That looks like FAB 05/1989 maybe motor #27 was watching the other vids and searched Playlist found your harmon
that could be. i purchased it back in 1991 as i recall. i think my 2nd one is older.
tatro
Hi Tatro, have you had any time to continue working on this beast?
+mictho100
no fun yet. youtube is not allowing me to have fun on my toys. i am fixing toys for other people to have fun with. maybe i should get a real job.
tatro
Airplane engine parts are now the priority
Hey tatro... I am building a dragbike just for fun... would a OEM shovelhead hold it? i am not going to make a rocket just something for having some fun in the weekends... big bore high comp... i got an stock shovelhead engine with rebuild bottom end in my shop with a 4 speed tranny
you have to have 4-3/4" or 5" stroke to make it go. 3-5/8 bore is next or 3-13/16 if you really want to get going with a 116" motor. a fxst 5sp is a must with a good 90's clutch. you are just wasting time with the 4sp. porting, cam and carb go together. just match them as a group to how big you want to go. 1-3/4" dual drag pipes about 30-34" are hard to beat. build it right and loose and the motor will take it.
tatro
4 3/4 inch 5 inch great stroke but if you what it to last ! 4 1/2 stroke 3 13/16 bore 10.25 cr kick only build for a costmer 15 year's ago still running strong lienweber cam std head s 11.15 et 127 mph driving it too the track my advice find someone or sombody that races shovelhead it all in the heads cam piston combo
how fast do you expect to run with set up? I know a Harman shovel is well worth the bragging rights, but what about Sorensen Performance big inch engines?
+joseph laperuta
160 in the 1/4 and 230+ on the lakes would be nice.
hard to beat inchs but good heads and a blower will get it done. pass the nitro please.
tatro
Tatro Machine too bad I live in NY my 67 shovel needs needs new life after some hack "rebuilt " it.new flywheel too since he shaved it down!
+joseph laperuta
all it takes is money and ups. don't forget time.
tatro
good👍
乗りたいな😃
Very cool motor bro but you definitely need to give more respect then what you do nuff said
screw it. it is what it is.
tatro
Ya sound like ya ready to jump bro, cheer up huh!
Speed is just a question of money how fast do you want to go
boy do i have a problem.
tatro
Hey tatro.. do you plan on building this dragbike some day?
at some point.
tatro
Old Boy I know Tim Bell Has two of Harmon cases ..
Very nice ! I look forward to hearing this Beast come to life A question for you Kennan is it worth running a right side drive at the rear when the cubes reach 120 ?
spiritoflights right side drive has to do with how much offset you have to have to make your chain or belt clear your rear tire. when you get to 230 to 250 rear tire that is when you look into going that route. I am at the limit with my 225 rear tire. I would have to cut and widen my rear frame to make the right side chain work. there is no difference in strength between left side or right side drive tyranny's. the gears are all about the same. it is all about how the gears are made and how wide they are, not on were the sprocket is.tatro
No probs I was just thinking along the lines of the torque all pulling on the left side of the bike i read some where thats why sportsters were right side to balance it all when the motor pulls my way of thinking there is more strength when everythings in line less room for things to run out,so left or right side makes no difference to the gyroscopic effect of the bike under such torque i think in theory the bike would want to lean to the left,lets just say i'm thinkin out loud ha ha not that you don't have enough things to try and deal with already i'm just voicing my thoughts Good luck with this build it's going to be one nice bike in your capable hands keep up the great work kennan, Simon.
spiritoflights all that sounds good except Harley is not that smart on making their new models. they just copied what they had the model before and upgraded it. that is they fixed some of the older models problems as needed. the 1st new bike Harley came out with in decades is the v-rod and who cares? stay tuned because that is what all Harleys will look like in just a few more years. the new epa laws hit in 2018 and 2020 or 2023. here comes the new junk.now the left side drive started back in 1903 with a belt and 1913 or 14 i think was the 1st chain. they still have the left side drive on all the big twins to this day. the right side drive goes back to 1926 starting with a single cylinder bike. it turned into a twin in 1929. that turned into the 45, k-models, all the dirt track race bikes, the ironhead sportster, the evo xl'x and now the rubber xl's.Harley just doesn't make to many big changes, just updates.the reason big twins pull to the left is because of rear steer from flexing of the drive line. the heavy left-side weight of the bike also makes it fall to the left. sportsters have the right-side drive but are still heavy on the left-side so they still like to go to the left but not as much as the big bikes.custom bike went to right-side drive to balance the weight of the bikes. they got so far to the left you could barely ride them. with the right-side things went back to more of a balanced bike. the tranny strth had noting to do with it. it was just to make the bike rideable again with them big ass tires.keep on learning.tatro
Hey kennan, thanks for wording it so well, what i was getting at in a round about way,ive read a little bit of what your talking about with the early bikes having a belt and how harley just upgraded and improved on what they were doing ironing out the bugs in a manner of speaking,you can see how their bikes really evolved through the years i think it's a fascinating journey of engineering to see how they progressed from model to model through the early big v twins.I hear ya about the v-rod and epa laws it's all turning to electronic this and that and water cooled crap that's plugged into a computer to see whats going on very much like the cars of today it's a disposable plastic cigarette lighter society where living in now people buy a new car that is mass produced and not made to last cheap and nasty shiny pieces of shit that wear out all show and no go heaven help the modern consumer it's a dam vicious circle the automotive bondage that the little mans is held in it's all about screwing as much out of us as they can i think the greedy bastards there's certainly not the quality anymore living in today's world that there once was I recall you saying buyer beware that holds true in so many ways.It's great to see your videos rebuilding those old panhead heads keep up the great work/videos take care simon.
spiritoflights well said, just the way I see it.there is still hope in the hot-rodders and hackers. as they learn how to use their hands and minds they become talented. without want there is no need.I do my best to speed the process up.tatro
wait..400+ hp with or without the turbo?
you will need a good source of air to get that much power. blown, nitrous or nitro should get the job done. lets go with all three.
tatro
BUDDY OF MINE HAS ONE TIM BELL OUTTA GRIZZLY CA.
Do you know Tim Bell out of Grizzly cali on Tim Bell Lane . Old motor Head Tim Got one of Harmons Big Mills 150 in a shovel stile He got it Running. If you still Have it .
i still have two new ones waiting for my time.
tatro
@@TatroMachineReason I asked Tim Bell did some work for Me . AndI lost his number . Like to talk with him he lives ip outta Grizzly Ca . TimBell lane . But cant find His number .
Yea tatro me too lol
I would help you build this monster, if you let me test ride it.
It won't ever be touched. Airplane cylinder powered motors are more important than this.
one problem with these street motor barrels is the head oil drains exit the liners too high up the stroke, meaning approx the top third or so is above the oil rings, what iv done with mine is to screw in a grubscrew into each drain hole in the heads & inserted hosetails for external oil drains, then redrilled through the liners a bit lower down. also if not wanting to make gaskets yourself, i recomend you contact LANNI at copper gaskets unlimited, coppergaskets.us/ as he made mine & should still have the details in his records.
Dude you have good Shi* use it . Be Happy.
I am trying to figure out if you were Bitching or Bragging about your Harmon engine. All I know is a unmolested Harmon engine tends to sell for big money if and when they come up for sale. John was a innovating creator of a lot of cool stuff and it a dam shame that he died so young. He was doing stuff back in the 80's that still has not been improved on today just only copied.
gullreefclub
i don't brag, i let the time slip & the record book tell the truth.
this motor was made after he died and was not machined correctly. that is one reason why this motor was not finished yet. at 400+ hp this motor will have to be updated or it will be a short lived motor. for me, the value in my parts are how fast they go, not who made them. time will tell.
tatro
Yes they do I have two go then from eBay. Un . Machined heads. Cases were right on the money as I'm am a tool maker machinst for a living and have made go & no go gages for pan knucklehead shovelhead for cases have all numbers std. Panhead cases were the worst
u ever met jesse james tatro?
no
That frame dont look man enough, will handle like a wounded camel
it is a new early 90's prostock drag frame. it will take it just fine.
tatro
Why is it a piece of junk.
because it needs tons of work to make all the parts to fit. just about every part i purchased for this bike is made wrong. just another 30 year project waiting for me to get back to it.
tatro
Cessna motor is the priority.