How Honda’s 2.2L Engine Makes Over 700 Horsepower
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- Опубліковано 7 сер 2024
- Honda Civic Type R Engine vs 2.2L Twin-Turbo V6 Engine
How IndyCar Engines Create 700 HP - Sponsored By Honda
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Honda makes a 2.2L twin-turbo V6 that produces over 700 horsepower. How do they do it? It’s not just boost, this engine revs to an insane 12,000 RPM! A little higher than the Civic Type R’s 7,000 RPM redline, but you might be surprised by some of the commonalities between these engines. Similar displacement, similar boost, but wildly different purposes. The 2.2L keeps Honda powered cars competitive in the world of IndyCar, while the Type R’s 2.0L needs to be able to maintain the longevity required of a road-car engine. Check out the video for a breakdown of these two incredible engines.
Not only did I learn about Honda's 2.2L engine while at the Belle Isle Grand Prix in Detroit, thanks to a discussion with a Honda Performance Development engineer, but I also had the incredible opportunity to ride in the Honda IndyCar two-seater! Conor Daly drove me around just before the opening lap of the race. Quite a special experience, big thanks to Honda for making it happen!
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*IMPORTANT CORRECTION:* In this video I state the boost pressures are 1300-1650 mbar *above atmospheric,* as is indicated on IndyCar's website (bit.ly/2XvviEU). This information, and the website, are not correct. Two IndyCar engineers have since notified me the boost pressures are absolute, meaning the gauge pressure for these engines above atmospheric is about 300-650 mbar, or about 4-9.5 psi. This is *significantly* less boost than discussed in the video. The math makes sense as well with the update. With pressure ranging from 1300 to 1650 mbar, and power ranging from 550 to 700 HP, we can do some quick ratios to see if it adds up. 1650/1300 = 1.27. 700/550 = 1.27. The power gain is thus proportional to the gain in pressure. E85 plays a larger role in power generation than the video indicates, and makes up for the gap that the "reduced" boost makes. Apologies for providing incorrect information, and thank you to the engineers who reached out with corrections and supporting materials! Mistakes happen; I will always do my best to provide corrections if necessary! Hopefully IndyCar will correct their website as well to reduce future confusion.
*Very* important correction! :) Thanks for clearing up. It seems obvious to me that the Civic 4-lunger certainly isn't running anywhere near that boost pressure either, certainly not on pump gas at 9.8:1 compression!
@@devilsoffspring5519 Yes it will. Corrections because of knocking will be done via ignition timing.
@@jakecole7447 It really runs at well over 20 PSI boost on pump gas at 9.8 CR? Somehow I really doubt it. For 300HP on a 2.0 liter 4, more like less than 10 PSI.
20+ PSI shouldn't be necessary for 300 HP, nowhere near that much.
@@devilsoffspring5519 dude... Just Google it. They run 22-25 psi Stock. And no you dont teach 310 HP with that RPM and compression with 10 psi. Modded 5.2 Liter v10s run that sorta boost.
My suggestion, remake the video where this gets corrected/discussed otherwise we get false data implanted into our brain. That's why this sort of vid is good, we have a stab at how we see things, "experts" pop up and offer valuable info, we all gain. Good job. These question have wizzed though my mind, I'm a curious engineer. I'd like to know the detail of F1 engines compared to a powerful commercial engine. I know octane and revs are the main ones. One comment by an expert was, tolerance are greater (and well defined) on a sports engine, longlevity is not the criteria.
Swap the honda indie motor into your S2000. Bet you wont sell it then.
that would make an awesome SEMA build ^^,
And need a new one after 2,400 miles? Well, that might make a multipart UA-cam video with a mechanic or two.
Lol
I'll do it :D
@@wumpusthehunted2628 to be fair itd probably be fine for a lot more than 2400 miles if it wasnt being revved to redline every 4 seconds lol
Jason is probably having dreams about this V6 in his S2000
GamerZoneArmy only if he wasn’t selling it
Hope it doesn't end in nocturnal emissions!
@@alimahdavi2276 XD
That was too good! Though I didn't verbally respond to that, I did freeze for several seconds to hold in my laughter, thanks for that.
I doubt it. The S handles very well with its 4 banger. The sixer, even if it lighters, might throw off the s balance.
JC Marin I think with that kind of power you'd actually need to shift the balance toward the rear in order to maximize exit speeds.
How does Honda make over 700hp from a 2.2L engine?
Stickers. Lots of stickers.
and a fart can muffler like all the ones rolling on the streets.
witchcraft.
Remi Ramos a big eBay turbo
They make more with the 1.6 liter V6 turbo hybrid that they use in F1
Vtec yo!
The question is, "how do i drop this into my 99' Civic?"
@James Smith K or B either one will get you boostability. K20 is pretty high comp compared to B20 or K24 and therefore might not be as good for boosting, but yeah, B18/B20/K24 are your cheapest bets, go grab one out of an old CRV or TSX for 200$ at a pick and pull.
Buy a k24 .....watch boostedboiz
K series and B series is always a great choice
You would need a new engine every week. Totally useless engine.
Get a j series swap with twins it wont rev as high but she'll definatley rip
Says he's going to sell the S2000 and Honda is like come see our 700 hp 12000 rpm engine
Some civic engines are able to roll up to 11000 rpm with some little upgrades
@keith cunningham yeah, and for how long did it ran? 15 minutes?
keith cunningham got you good 😂
@keith cunningham I highly doubt that
@keith cunningham honda made over 1000hp with 1.6L normally aspirated engine for formula engine carol shelby never competed because he couldnt make one.
So much great info! Thanks Jason for creating this. Learning is Fun
Thanks Jason! That Honda of yours is pretty rad as well 👌
"Jesse, don't. He's probably got a $100 000 under the hood of that car"
the answer is VTEC BABYYY
C. AF *BBWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH*
No VTECH X-TREEMMMMMMMM
Haha, funny enough this has a fixed cam profile (as regulated), but the Type R does have vtec on the exhaust. Once turbos got involved variable lift wasn't as important on the intake, so it's been dropped.
@@Creeperboy099 donut media flashback
Moar pawer baby
Would be cool if honda made a rwd possibly 6 or 4 cylinder s3000
We're waiting Honda It's time and we know what you can do
S3000 would be too big. There's no reason to put a 3L engine in such a small car. The 2000 in S2000 stands for CC. Honda actually makes an S600 for Japan only.
@@AnthonyBrusca we in the 1000s
100s was way back
@@AnthonyBrusca and there is no such thing as to big
@@maxxas5067 Yes, there is. That tiny two seater car will never be able to handle the power, it would be all squirlly. The current S600 has a mid/rear engine too.
S3000? That’s going to only be a V6 for sure...
12k rpm? Anyone remember the good old day when we had F1 cars with 20k rpm? pepperidge farm remembers...
Yea I member
This is indy car though...
same with my 250CC bikes that had 19k RPM
Boomer
@@duduychony9747 I don't think you tards realize how old boomers are xD
As a part time engine builder; when I’m asked “how much HP can you get out of my engine?”
My answer is “ How deep are your pockets”
"Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go..."
@@TeejtheDeej
Exactly.
The more money the person has the faster they can go. The cool thing is today's 4 cylinder engines can out perform V 8 engines even on a budget. 300 hp reliable on stock components,1/3 the weight, less parasitic friction loss, its a win.
@@TeejtheDeej
I'm building a planned 500+hp 2.4 Ecotec for a customer. As of August 2021 he's $15,000 USD into parts and machine work. Its going into a mid 80's Camaro. I'm expecting it to eat 8 cylinders all day long. I should be strapping it to the dyno this coming spring.
Honda: we can only tell you it makes above 700hp, and the bore.
Jason: (does some math), so your engine has this stroke, uses this much fuel, has up to this much horsepower and torque, and can probably go this fast estimating the drag co-efficient of a typical formula one car.
Honda: damn, don't ever tell that guy anything
jason: how much do you pay to me?
How to: Make memes on notepad
He has to be hired by honda
he doesnt know the bore.. hes guessing
What torque?
I love how your adrenalin induced reactions always prove you are a real engineer. :-). Keep up the good work!
Couldn’t stop grinning for you at the end. Quality 👌🏼
My miata can that too. I calculated i have to have 32500rpm
just twin hybrid swap it
Toretto : You'll fry the piston ring
3,250... that's not too bad.
Great video, very informative. As an engineering student I enjoy your videos, keep up the good work
With all that correction turns out I have a Bugatti engine in my fiat panfa
More a La Ferrari :D
Hehehe lool!
GB
Congrats on the ride and thanks for the info! Glad you added the clip at the end, it is a fun one to rewatch!
A ride well deserved!!
Thanks for all the information you give us.
Love the vid, and definitely love when those little motors push out #MOPOWABABEH! :D
How has no one seen this comment
donut
I think you're in the road to becoming very popular around the world! Well deserved man your videos and research are perfectly done. You have unique content.
People can hate little Honda engines all they want but they are fairly impressive. I had a little B18C in a hatch back, that thing was fairly peppy and took a beating. There is definitely quicker but it was a normally aspirated that would chirp into third, squeal into second, and just tear up first the entire time. Crazy little car.
Not hating but it's "naturally aspirated," not normally, I love Honda's
Spinning isn't winning got to get performance clutch proper shifting any DOHC swap in EG/EF is beyond quick weight to power ratio e.g. physics don't need no v8, Honda For Life
appreciate you taking the time to do such an in depth explanation. You are a real one
Nice video. An extremely significant omission was the different induction systems and the number of valves. The race engine has cylinder heads and intake manifold that flow much more air than the street engine. Also, 24 valves instead of 16. Also the exhaust systems are very very different. It's about airflow.
Congrats man! You deserve all of this. Such a great channel.
Hey! Good for you man getting that ride in the Indy car! It's super cool to see how far you've come using this channel you've built 👌🏻
You've partly inspired me to go to Uni myself and take up mechanical engineering (over electrical).
Keep up the great content
Thanks
Looked like you had an amazing experience at that event, Jason. Very cool. I learned many years ago to appreciate the difference between "engineering" and "applied engineering". Both are important and you experienced both in this video. Again, very cool.
12,000 rpm is almost double 7000... higher rpm = more volume/displacement in a set amount of time = more HP
Thats how low displacement engines have to make up for power. It works faster to move the same amount of air as larger displacements.
The tradeoff being lifespan but much lighter weight
plus its also twin turbo vs just one... howd that get missed
@@AllanDaigle 1, 2 or 4 turbo's don't chance de HP if boost is fixt.
With 2 additional pistons this makes it easier to build more torque, even though it has the same displacement and shorter stroke than the four cylinder engine.
And this is accomplished with a shorter stroke.
Freaking brilliant man. Thank you. I'm kinda suprised Honda even gave you this much info.
This video is super easy to understand. Good job !
I knew about your channel before the Belle Isle Grand Prix, but it's fair to say that NBC gave you a proper good shout out which lead to me finding this video again. Once again, a very in depth and knowledgeable video
Loved the clip of you at the end! 😂💜
Jason...thanks for the great article in road and track last month..I finally like an automatic transmission.....slightly
Ewww auto trans
Great video and better yet the info and math... thank you @Engineering Explained . I love your videos man!!!
I've been a fan for a few years. You do an awesome job explaining everything!
Thanks David!
In the meantime Boosted boyz just casually driving with a 700hp civic.
Lol. Right! Love Kyle's red hatch!
His odyssey makes more than his hatch
Halfway across the country mind you
You can have any power you like with forced induction as long as the block is strong enough. BMW proved this in the 80's with 1400 hp on a 4 cylinder engine much smaller in capacity than this Honda.
Yeah 1.5L I4 running 5bar of boost on a massive turbo. I can't imagine how much power modern F1 engines would make if they only had to last for 3 laps and had unlimited fuel flow, probably upwards of 2000hp
I'm looking at my 1986 yamaha rd350ypvs. Dyno says 90 bhp at the flywheel.
It's an ex Stan Stephens race bike.
Cranks don't last too long but it's pretty fun to ride.
The peak revs are about 16k.
It absolutely screams >:)
That is approximately 257 bhp/litre,,,,, not bad for non turbo running normal petrol premix.
@@IDontWantAHandle101
Hey, takes me back...
I had a Stan tuned LC race engined on the road for a bit, it was so fast, never got the engine past a 1000 miles without a rebuild 😁
@@petrichor649 No pain no gain!!!
I have a TDR 250 too.
That will be the last I get rid of. Hooligan machine.
Does less to the gallon than my Range Rover :)
James Smith I mean that’s not impressive as a race with turns .
Really great break down.... I learnt a lot!!! Australian commentary and I’m in Australia! Keep posting please🤜🏼🤛🏼🍀😎
Another killer video, keep doing what you do
Good grief, imagine Honda reintroducing a new S2000 with a slightly toned-down version of that V-6 engine! Gimme!
My dream honda motor was the RA V10 from the McLaren MP4-5.
Well deserved ride Conner ! i also give Kudos to Honda for being a Stand Up Company i’m small Potatoes to them but i’ve been a faithfull owner and Advocate of many of their products over the years including my fathers 1960s S90 Motorcycle he bought in 1965 a few other Motor Bikes ,Cars , and many small engines including a generator /Inverter
Thank you for spoon feeding all of us your great and precious knowledge
So basically, if you throw race fuel at a Civic Type R engine, it's a mini Indycar 😉
no, the tolerances are soo tight on an indy engine the block needs to be heated up to allow for expansion before startup. Not practical in a daily driver.
Rods, connectors, valves, etc etc etc. All it has to be beefed up to handle the increased rpms and power.
@@brkbtjunkie Its a joke... I'm not saying to modify the CTR engine to be like an Indycar engine but rather the hp/l is very similar once you factor in the boost, displacement and fuel difference
@@atvkid0805 I'm guessing you meant to reply in a different thread?
Clay DuVal Everything is similar if you factor in all the differences...
I should have known youd be in detroit. Im a machinist in metro detroit i dig your channel and info
Very good explanation, spot on with everything. Love your videos man
When you first showed the engine internals I thought it was the indy engine, and I counted 4 cylinders in a row, and got very excited that Honda had made another V8 engine, and then realized it was the type R motor. I really wish Honda weren't so afraid of 8 cylinders.
It is amazing that the Honda street 4-banger is so close to the race engine, which I think we can assume, pushes all the limits. Piston speed, boost (ok artificially limited here), apparently BMEP & PCP, and adjusted volumetric power density. They really did it all with rpm and a little higher efficiency. Honda Street engine is amazing to so close to several limits and have so much durability.
Tim Duncan I concur Tim Duncan, and what’s really amazing is Honda making them affordable to the ordinary buying public
Bapster Man, Excellent point, maybe the best. I hear Ferrari makes great engines but it just doesn’t matter, I’ll never afford one. I’ve already owned several Honda.
I'd love to see a video like this about some of the old F1 engines that revved to like 15/16 thousand rpm
V10 went up to 20 000rpm, what a glorious sound that was.
Check out the BBC Equinox documentary about the Ford-Cosworth turbo V6 F1 engine -- it's very interesting! :) The rules limited it to 4 bar = 60 psi in 1987, but some may have run even more before that.
Dude this was awesome. Love your channel.
Wow great explanation, very clear and thorough! Thanks!
Engineering Explained living his best life 💯
Drop that motor directly into the classic NSX.. -SERIOUSLY😁
@@jzxtrd337 I cant tell if you're a troll or not but indy engines go about 3000 miles before getting a new one. They gave races longer than 250 miles lmao
I'M NOT HERE FOR A LONG TIME; I'M HERE FOR A GOOD TIME
@@jzxtrd337 2500 miles of full on being pinned. A f1 engine will drop revs which helps with longevity it also helps more f1 races cover less miles.
@@jzxtrd337 remember indy can be 500 miles of pinned for a indy with only breaks while pitting
@@jdrok5026 constant rpm is easier on engines. You can do some interesting things reliability and power wise with steady state rpm
Great video as always J.
Very informative video! Great job
8:00 that uncontrollable smile sums up the difference between the two engines
So Jason sells his S2000 to get an F1 car. I support this decision.
Great informative video. Also a great race from Scott Dixon.
Love your content, numbers don’t lie!
Awesome. And looking forward to you hopefully doing a vid on the 2020 GT500's 760 HP!!! :)
@Micheal Stillabower yes, today
@Micheal Stillabower Yes I'm about to release a vid on it if you want to check it out. Hit the sub and bell. Probably about an hour.
2500 mile lifespan for that motor, wowsers! Talk about a quickie...
Indy is fairly brutal on engines
I bet!
That's pretty long actually compared to a lot of race motors.
Like Ford's normal engines then?
Well done for the useful information
Awesome, thanks for another lesson!
Jason, another awesome explanation!! Thank you for sharing!!
So basically it just breaks down to 1. higher RPM and 2. higher octane fuel?
Plus better materials and better craftsmanship probably.
You missed he entire bore stroke... that’s the whole difference. The fuel is fairly minimal, putting e-85 into the street car wouldn’t give you much. You could also run the street car 12k rpm, but the torque at that rpm would fall off a cliff on the Dino run, resulting in probably like 50 HP because the piston speed would be approaching flame propagation speed (which means the force on the piston would be near 0, which means almost no work is done).
It's more than that there is also cam lift timing . duration and cylinder head design that is where the real power is made air in air out more air+ more fuel = bigger boomb
You guys are correct, air in-out, bore, stoke, materials etc... which breaks down to and results in layman’s terms: higher RPM and higher octane (trying to break it down for someone who doesn’t care as much as we do, lol).
I always thought it was just witchcraft or something, but I'm surprised to see how simple it is to explain, mostly it's just RPM.
Fantastic!
Colonel RPG Horsepower is mostly marketing gimmicks. Torque to weight-ratio is more important for acceleration.
Dude, seeing you in that Honda 2-seater made my day! Cheers!
Very interesting comparison. Great job Jay!
everybody: YO! Mercedes just made a 2 liter engine that puts out 450hp!!
Honda: Hold my beer...
Mercedes 1.6L F1 engine produces around 1000hp in quali mode, ICU only.
Mercedes made a 1.6L engine with 748hp.
I'm obviously talking about the ICE alone. In the road legal Project One.
The hybrid systems are estimated to push the total to a maximum of 1230 hp
Has to pass the homologation process first though.
@@dyrsten yes but that engine is supposed to survive a race or two, meanwhile the 2.0 450hp is the engine of an A-klass
I don't know, however, how reliable is the honda engine, the comment was supposed to be a joke anyways
Imagine Wagons yeah that’s 250 bhp less from an engine only 200cc less, hey Mercedes hold these beers
That would be awesome for either new NSX type R or a New super car!!!
Love your break downs
Awesome video very informational
Just to say that this is specifically a race engine--it does one thing: racing. You don't want this engine in a regular car :)
Any Honda fan would be no good with that bad boy.
They would probably tune it if they ever sell it in consumer vehicles
Dunno, Rotary engines are (technically speaking) more of a race engine than something you should use frequently but the fun is there.
@Engineering Explained F1 Honda engine 1.6L V6 single turbo +700 HP get info on that engine :D that would be awesome since I think it is one of the most powerful engines per displacement :)
Wankel rotaries are the amount the highest reliable in a racing scenario for combustion engines (1000 HP per liter). Reliable as in comparatively since those are still using OEM engine housing and probably last more than 2500 miles when only doing 350HP per liter (since no boost on gasoline they are rated 238 for a 1.3L at the factory, although it’s really more like 180-190 because marketing...)
Power amount is for drag car with duel turbos and methanol, the Puerto Rican’s know how to make those Doritos engines run!
Great explanation, you break down things so clearly, even better than some professors ;-) !
Really informative. I did not realize how similar these 2 diverse engines are.
Can you make a video about their new lawnmower that goes 230+ km/h
The civic or the actual lawnmower??
@@calvinnyala9580 actual lawnmower
Put that into Honda’s next sports car and they can come take my money.
Love this channel and how in-depth he gets
Awesome mathematical breakdown. As an electrical engineer, I'm not too familiar with the math behind calculating the performance of car engines, but this was very clear!
Also, that ride sure looked fun! I'm envious!
Also a power difference factor is emissions. The 2.0L is rated with catalytic convertors. E85 alone would explain the power gap you ended up with in this video, so you have proved 700hp is definitely conservative. Probably as high as 800hp.
Most people in the know think its like 750 on road courses and short ovals but come 2021 Indycar engines are gonna have 900 horsepower!
Just need your s2k back now. I'm sure you can make the engine fit.
Haha I still have it, hoping to get it listed this week!
@@EngineeringExplained so honda is going to be missing off its v6 engines? 😂
Engineering Explained I have $5 and a pack of gum
@@EngineeringExplained what would you replace the s2000 with?
JVST DAI I have $7 and two packs of gum. Looks like the S2000 is mine.
Solid clip Jason.
I wish Jason is my teacher. He explains things so thoroughly and goes into depth, something I find most teachers lack today. He's also very entertaining to watch, and by that I mean its not just some boring 3 hour lecture. It's short, concise, and right to the point.
Me:Can I buy that for my build....
Honda: sure after 5 payments of 99999
Me:........
I would also like one thank you
Would be interesting to know what fails after 2,500 miles, or I would guess about 20 hours of race use, or at minimum what the HONDA race mechanics replace in a rebuild, as obviously they do not throw the entire engine away after every race. So what are the weak points ??? Also thanks for the boost pressure correction, I almost thought HONDA defies the laws of thermodynamics using E85.
Wow! This was interesting! Great video!
Congrats on the Indy ride and thanks for this great video.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it, super fun!
In short
- less stroke = higher rpm
- slightly higher boost = more hp
- use e85 fuel = 100+ octane thus more power than 91 octane fuel
I mean does the fact its got two extra cylinders not matter at all, not sure why that isnt really talked about.
Jurassic Tech That’s why he corrected for the displacement. The actual number of cylinders doesn’t matter, it’s just that more cylinders generally allow for a larger displacement of air and fuel in the entire engine over a given time
@@adamlreid ok, I thought i was missing something lol.
Another piece of the puzzle is that a Type R won’t make that much boost at peak power.
Say it’s 21lbs at peak power and there is around 95% right there.
maybe there's just not enough flow past the valves?
Important correction, the cylinder head flow rate has a HUGE influence on power output. E85 is approximately 105 octane, however doesn't account for the majority of the horse power difference. I would speculate that the cylinder heads on the Indycar engine flow FAR more than the stock type R engine, which contributes to the significant difference in hp, while having similar displacement and boost levels.
Always a great video 👍❗️
Whoa this needs to be an engine option for the Accord (;
Edit: of course you’d need to tweak a few things so it’ll at least last like a Honda XD
Edit 2: 104 likes? Am I having Deja Vu?
front wheel destroyer
@@p0ck3tzzz Drag radial fryer
You’ll need to preheat the engine before every start up.
R8 Convert it into AWD.
It's a race engine would not last demands you would make of it.
V6 vs I4
2T vs 1T
12000 vs 6500
Larger Valves
Gasoline
Price $$$
Interesting insight as always!
Man, that looked like fun!
Can't wait to see your take on the IndyCar hybrid 2.2 twin turbocharged w/ super capacitors.
@8:00: that's what happens when you skip neck day.
10/10 would break neck for that experience.
Haha, it's also what happens when you can't predict high g-forces since you're not driving. You can try this at home. Just swerve like crazy haha.
Honda is like episodes of dragon Ball z don't no what you expect ing next 😁😁😁
Yeah but DBZ has worse turbo lag.
@@0num4 ya it takes for ever ro to charge them spirit bombs
@@anirudhmallikarjun7067 about 3 episodes iirc
RPM's Above 9000 :O
I learn a Lot epic video
Good Report