I first wondered how you got those long timbers into the attic...That's what the hole in the ceiling was for, up & in patch it later..better then going through the roof. Also the flat timber is just a nailer for the vertical timber, a person could add another 2x on the other side of the flat to form a "U" for strength. This issue is common as roofs also sag over time... Great Video guy.
loved the video until you didnt show anything actually done.. i guess my home might be historic.. (1946) because i have this problem and the ceiling joists are 2x6.. i wish you would of showed the fix..
Hmmm....doesn't the strongback just load up the last rafter? With a hip roof you can't get the bearing point to the outside wall. I assume the interior end of the strongback rode on that interior wall, which is another question. I'd like to see the engineering on that strongback. I wonder if a 2x6 is enough to carry the load or if you will eventually just end up with a sagging strongback.
You should have shown how you attached the 2x6 and perhaps even why you chose a 2x6 and if even a 2x8 would be an option, and why you stood it on it's edge as opposed to flat?
Using regular lumber, it has no structural strength laid flat, its much stronger standing, the difference is 1.5 inches laid flat, and 5.5 inches standing. 2x6 vs 2x8 just depends on how far you're spaning
Hello and thank you for putting up this video! My 1908 SJ craftsman attic looks very similar. I noticed that you are over a pipe that runs across the attic-I have all this pipe that is connected like a skeleton and have been wondering what is it? I have nob and tube wiring and figure it's not conduit. Thanks for any insights!
There is no actual video on how to install a strongback - how it is secured to the sagging ceiling joists, how is the ceiling actually raised (from within the attic or raised with hydraulic jacks) etc..
Jamie Morse --- No need for jacks, you determine how much you need to raise the ceiling and measure support 2x4's allowing for the thickness of the the plank you're using to support the ceiling as he's shown---- you then simply tap the upright at the top until you've got it vertical which will effectively lift your ceiling----- He's used Just one upright for this likely because he did it alone---- I would have used a longer support plank and 2 uprights tapped, ( or pounded if necessary!), into place -- but that would require 2 guys, or a lot more struggle..... hope this makes sense---- If you've not worked with wood much this may make no sense-------
@Joe Sucks No, I'm not a carpenter..... But we restored a fisherman's cottage in Whitby (1860) where the floors were bouncing. The joists ran the length of the house, and were like rough cut tree trunks. We jacked the bedroom floor from below, then crossed-laced 6x2' timbers, which were wood stained. It stiffened the floors a treat. The basement got a concrete floor.
Would like to have at least seen the finished work to get an idea of how you accomplished that project. Also, I am guessing this project would not allow a floor to be installed in the attic afterward.
No. Think of it more like a continuous header beam spanning across a room at a ceiling. If you cut it into blocks it won't have the same deflection support value. A designed header should be continuous. A layer of plywood won't help to minimize deflection or help with improper size joist span to up their value.
Those stiff backs are pointless unless both ends rest on something structural. If they need to span from exterior load bearing wall to some other load bearing wall. These houses generally have an interior bearing wall that would work.
agreed. I'm guessing he does though because you can see the sag so easily, one end on the exterior wall and one end on a load bearing wall downstairs that also transfers load to the basement floor. If that's not the case then he's wasting 4 days lol
I always thought strongbacks were to keep the joists from twisting and warping over time or when people walk in the attic. Guess I learned something new today.
i got similar long spanning joists 13', I want to cut a part of one out to put in new attic access , do i have to replace the whole joist or can I do something different like putting in doubler kind of header between it connecting to the closet joists?
Great video. I have run into this situation many times. Should mention, however, that before disturbing the plaster and lath, you should have it tested for asbestos. Older plaster was frequently strengthened with horse hair and / or asbestos.
These are complex fixes and every one is different so I felt back then, that this is just a video showing one option to sagging ceilings. The trades person or contractor is ultimately responsible for understanding the engineering, and installation processes contingent to that projects unique logistics. Granted this was done a long time ago, and more detail could have been show. Now I do professional videos that do show the detail in installation technique for trade professionals. If your interested I recommend visiting this link for more videos and articles. Thanks for your feed back. solutions.dunnlumber.com
Hi I am building 10 x 16 cabin and am nearly finished but the floor is sagging in the middle in the front of the structure. Also the back of the structure has been sinking a little but causing a noticeable bend in the middle of the structure on the floor. I leveled it off last spring using some jacks and cement blocks. It sank almost an inch. This spring I'm noticing it begin to sick a little bit again. It's on a slight grade going down towards the back end and the back end is also a bit heavier. I used nine deck post piers in holes filled and compacted with gravel as my foundation. So my first plan to fix my foundation issue was to just go and install a cement slab on another piece of the property and just move the cabin onto that. But I am considering just trying to remedy the situation with a strong back. Do you think it would be a practical solution? What method is used to connect the strong back to the floor joists?
+Nicholas Novak Hello. Well, my first reaction here is to think about the posts first. Essentially you built a "pylon" post type foundation, and I would try to identify why your posts are sinking, and if they will continue to do so. This way your not spending to much time and money trying to fix something that might not be remedied. If your in a place that has permafrost and a freeze thaw cycle then the ground just might soften enough to allow the posts to sink. You can see this sagging affect on old buildings with post and peer support over time. In any case you could use a strong back beam where the sag is and jacking it into place and attaching with simpson A-35 metal clips. one thing to keep in mind though is that the beam you install will have to be rigid enough to take the weight of the sag and the ends of the beam will need to be supported somehow. Does this help in any way?
Lvl has a load table on their website. But characteristics of spans and board dimensions are 1.5 times the width of the board. 2x6 good for 9 feet 2x8 good for 12 feet. 10 is 15 12 is 18.
This solution worked for my upstairs bedroom. Ceiling is now solid and flat. I have a 1910 home.
Still works good for you?
Derek Warcimaga probably not because he isn’t answering back
I first wondered how you got those long timbers into the attic...That's what the hole in the ceiling was for, up & in patch it later..better then going through the roof. Also the flat timber is just a nailer for the vertical timber, a person could add another 2x on the other side of the flat to form a "U" for strength.
This issue is common as roofs also sag over time... Great Video guy.
Very good and informative. I wish you added the finished part.
Looks like the old gaslight piping is still there too
Very interesting and educational. IT'S a petty you haven't shown HOW TO ATTACH / SECURE the 2x6 s to the old levelled ceiling .
I used screws to keep agitation to a minimum. Did this video many years ago.
Used screws for what, hurricane ties, hangars? Sorry but this is half a video.
Probably just toenail style, using screws from both sides of 2x6 into each ceiling joist 2x4
loved the video until you didnt show anything actually done.. i guess my home might be historic.. (1946) because i have this problem and the ceiling joists are 2x6.. i wish you would of showed the fix..
Hmmm....doesn't the strongback just load up the last rafter? With a hip roof you can't get the bearing point to the outside wall. I assume the interior end of the strongback rode on that interior wall, which is another question. I'd like to see the engineering on that strongback. I wonder if a 2x6 is enough to carry the load or if you will eventually just end up with a sagging strongback.
you could leave the sag in original ceiling; so there won't be anymore cracks. if you raise the ceiling it puts an added load on new strongbacks.
You should have shown how you attached the 2x6 and perhaps even why you chose a 2x6 and if even a 2x8 would be an option, and why you stood it on it's edge as opposed to flat?
Using regular lumber, it has no structural strength laid flat, its much stronger standing, the difference is 1.5 inches laid flat, and 5.5 inches standing. 2x6 vs 2x8 just depends on how far you're spaning
@@johnjones4096 But: how did you attach the joists to the strongback?
@@SmackintoshSr Structural angle brackets would be what I would use in that situation. Simpson have some excellent structural brackets on the market.
Thank you. Exactly what I was looking for!
will this work to reinforce for a load bearing wall removal of a 9 ft span?
Hello and thank you for putting up this video! My 1908 SJ craftsman attic looks very similar. I noticed that you are over a pipe that runs across the attic-I have all this pipe that is connected like a skeleton and have been wondering what is it? I have nob and tube wiring and figure it's not conduit. Thanks for any insights!
It may be old gas pipe for old original ceiling lamps? In nay case thanks for watching. did this video many years ago.
There is no actual video on how to install a strongback - how it is secured to the sagging ceiling joists, how is the ceiling actually raised (from within the attic or raised with hydraulic jacks) etc..
Jamie Morse --- No need for jacks, you determine how much you need to raise the ceiling and measure support 2x4's allowing for the thickness of the the plank you're using to support the ceiling as he's shown---- you then simply tap the upright at the top until you've got it vertical which will effectively lift your ceiling----- He's used Just one upright for this likely because he did it alone---- I would have used a longer support plank and 2 uprights tapped, ( or pounded if necessary!), into place -- but that would require 2 guys, or a lot more struggle..... hope this makes sense---- If you've not worked with wood much this may make no sense-------
Even a car scissor jack would do the trick.....and much more precise
and less violent than whacking a post (cut to size) in.
@Joe Sucks No, I'm not a carpenter.....
But we restored a fisherman's cottage in Whitby (1860)
where the floors were bouncing.
The joists ran the length of the house, and were like rough cut tree trunks.
We jacked the bedroom floor from below, then crossed-laced 6x2' timbers, which were wood stained. It stiffened the floors a treat.
The basement got a concrete floor.
Would like to have at least seen the finished work to get an idea of how you accomplished that project. Also, I am guessing this project would not allow a floor to be installed in the attic afterward.
Have you ever installed headers in the attic instead of below ceiling joists I order to remove a wall
Would blocking between the joists do the same affect then add a thick flooring made of plywood?
No. Think of it more like a continuous header beam spanning across a room at a ceiling. If you cut it into blocks it won't have the same deflection support value. A designed header should be continuous. A layer of plywood won't help to minimize deflection or help with improper size joist span to up their value.
Those stiff backs are pointless unless both ends rest on something structural. If they need to span from exterior load bearing wall to some other load bearing wall. These houses generally have an interior bearing wall that would work.
agreed. I'm guessing he does though because you can see the sag so easily, one end on the exterior wall and one end on a load bearing wall downstairs that also transfers load to the basement floor. If that's not the case then he's wasting 4 days lol
I always thought strongbacks were to keep the joists from twisting and warping over time or when people walk in the attic. Guess I learned something new today.
i got similar long spanning joists 13', I want to cut a part of one out to put in new attic access , do i have to replace the whole joist or can I do something different like putting in doubler kind of header between it connecting to the closet joists?
Great video. I have run into this situation many times. Should mention, however, that before disturbing the plaster and lath, you should have it tested for asbestos. Older plaster was frequently strengthened with horse hair and / or asbestos.
If you're going to do videos of this nature, please show how it's done. the mere fact that you did it means nothing.
These are complex fixes and every one is different so I felt back then, that this is just a video showing one option to sagging ceilings. The trades person or contractor is ultimately responsible for understanding the engineering, and installation processes contingent to that projects unique logistics. Granted this was done a long time ago, and more detail could have been show. Now I do professional videos that do show the detail in installation technique for trade professionals. If your interested I recommend visiting this link for more videos and articles. Thanks for your feed back. solutions.dunnlumber.com
Very good video.
Thank you!
Hi I am building 10 x 16 cabin and am nearly finished but the floor is sagging in the middle in the front of the structure. Also the back of the structure has been sinking a little but causing a noticeable bend in the middle of the structure on the floor. I leveled it off last spring using some jacks and cement blocks. It sank almost an inch. This spring I'm noticing it begin to sick a little bit again. It's on a slight grade going down towards the back end and the back end is also a bit heavier. I used nine deck post piers in holes filled and compacted with gravel as my foundation.
So my first plan to fix my foundation issue was to just go and install a cement slab on another piece of the property and just move the cabin onto that. But I am considering just trying to remedy the situation with a strong back.
Do you think it would be a practical solution? What method is used to connect the strong back to the floor joists?
+Nicholas Novak Hello. Well, my first reaction here is to think about the posts first. Essentially you built a "pylon" post type foundation, and I would try to identify why your posts are sinking, and if they will continue to do so. This way your not spending to much time and money trying to fix something that might not be remedied. If your in a place that has permafrost and a freeze thaw cycle then the ground just might soften enough to allow the posts to sink. You can see this sagging affect on old buildings with post and peer support over time. In any case you could use a strong back beam where the sag is and jacking it into place and attaching with simpson A-35 metal clips. one thing to keep in mind though is that the beam you install will have to be rigid enough to take the weight of the sag and the ends of the beam will need to be supported somehow. Does this help in any way?
Where are your Acrow jacks ?
I plan to use LVL beam as a strongback - how do I size the beam?
Lvl has a load table on their website. But characteristics of spans and board dimensions are 1.5 times the width of the board. 2x6 good for 9 feet 2x8 good for 12 feet. 10 is 15 12 is 18.
@@Valient6 thanks
Simple if the plank spans from side to side yeah. Mine is twice the length
Is that you my booze