A New Weapon Of War: Killer Underwater Drones
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- Опубліковано 14 кві 2024
- Drones are having a dramatic effect on warfare, yet their underwater cousins are less well known or understood. A new trend is weaponizing underwater drones, here is what's happening. Unscripted and unedited.
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"Guys, we've been adrift for days"
"Look, a shore rescuer! We're saved!"
boom boom
That's how i felt, when the Thumbnail said "NOT a Torpedo", then get 2/3 of the video whafting about the history of Torps.
Its literally a torpedo@@Gunni1972
Seems to me that a good name for the underwater devices is "undies".😄
Bet that gets picked up in the fleet:
It's catchy,
and
apt.
Of course, I'm biased,
as a Cold War submariner,
and beyond ...
"Sir! We are under attack by an autonomous swarm of undies!"
Single-use exploding undies? Ouch!
Good point. The over-arching theme of this clip is semantics.
Simplicity is always a better approach.
KISS!
You must be aussie to come up with undies lol
The UAV is the cruise missile we have at home
thats like the best defenition ive heard so far
It's that time of year again! 😀
Always delighted to see you upload and educate us landlubbers, Mr. Sutton 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Even old 'Bubbleheads'
love his work,
... deservedly ...
"programmable torpedo's? don't be ridiculous we use underwater drones"
You Sir are THE Authority on this type of thing. Thank you for your excellent presentation!
So nice of you
Underwater drones have some inherent freebies that make them particularly scary. Stealth due to the general absence of sonar in civilian waters. And ability to have a very large payload while using basic propulsion.
Great explanation of pretty confusing nomenclature. When I retired from NAVSEA 10 years ago, I was heavily involved in integrating UUVs into submarine platforms. There was great competition to demonstrate the "first to market" for a useful UUV/submarine system. Although the prototype UUVs did not typically have explosive charges, they all had super dense energy storage in the form of lithium batteries. This posed some risk that had to be mitigated for deployment aboard submarines. In the US there was quite a bit of cross breeding between the weapons community (torpedoes) and the scientific community (think oceanographers).
If a high capacity lithium battery on a sub decided to catch fire, could it be quickly expelled thru a torpedo tube?
@@TechToWatch No, there is not enough time once an internal short develops. Some of the concepts we pursued were launching out of a Dry Deck Shelter ( a lockout device for SEALS carried on the back of an SSN) and launching out of a Trident missile tube. Both of these ideas would keep any battery failures outside the ship's interior. The trident tubes were originally designed to contain the worst case mishap with a D5 missile. Very robust structure.
Everything you discuss is thoroughly fascinating. Thanks!
Glad you think so!
@20:00 I'm fascinated by the indigenous arms production in Gaza. It's amazing what people come up with when you give nothing to do but plot revenge
You didn't cover when the arguments of double hulled vs single hulled UUV's begins though.
One thing I didnt hear you touch on was mine clearance. You also have the emergence of small underwater drones with sophisticated sensors for hunting mines and then a self-detonation capability to clear the mine.
Waiting for your videos are like waiting for fine wine. The longer it's been, the more I can savor the experience.
Can’t miss an HI Sutton report!
I was just rewatching your old videos while working. Thanks for this amazing new video!
Any torpedo is an UAV by definition. Any and all torpedoes have a search program set into it prior to launching, it tells the torpedo where to go to look for a target, how far down it should search and what depth it should have as its top depth so it doesnt target surface vessels, it will drive itself out xx meters then it engages one or multiple search patterns using its search sonar, once it finds the target it switches to terminal sonar and pings much faster as it closes with its target. They do all this on their own after its launched.
Love your videos. Interesting and calming without distracting music etc. Would love to see an episode on early subs, 1600-1900. And a special on the amazing Ictineo II
I'd still call most if not all of these torpedoes by convention. Semantics aside the important part is that these new systems can fill operational niches that previous torpedoes could not.
I think of kamikaze drones and underwater drones as cheaper cruise missiles and torpedoes
This happens a lot with weapons.
Just think about the difference between what we perceive as a “rocket” and a “missile”.
And then realize an arrow is technically a “missile”
So, a “rocket” is a missile. And a “missile” can have rocket propulsion and still be perceived as a “missile”
And so on and so on….
All the best to everyone
Have been looking forward to your coverage of this inevitable topic. Thanks!
Always very happy to see a video from you. This didn't disappoint. I've been fascinated by UUV development, but information is relatively scarce. This is a great summary.
I'm curious if you could do a predictive roadmap for where you think unmanned naval warfare is going in general. Speculation about the future always excites people, I bet it would get a lot of views.
In the US these road maps have been developed by Office of Naval Research (ONR) and. Naval Sea Systems Command . They are unclassified and you can probably just do a few Google searches to find them.
As always superb info and analysis H.I. Thank you for sharing. Cheers!
*I always appreciate your insight brother*
Great Topic! With the advancement of this kind of technology, it's always a good time for HI to drop some knowledge on us about what is floating around out there looking to do bad things to peeps.
Thanks HI
Honestly this channel could be Perun with some production value, but I do appreciate the "do it live" mentality.
Yes! New video by H I Sutton.
And could you do like bigger video on what Anders Puck Nielsen talked in his video on how difficult it is to defend against maritime drones? I'm talking about the part where waves create the clutter and what are the methods to "solve" this problem and what are the potential issues that country trying to solve it can run into (Computational power, proper software, maybe hardware would need to be very specific)? Sorry, but there isn't much info about this in public space. Or rather there is, but it's in hundreds of places.
Passive sonar. anything moving fast in the water will make noise.
@@johanmetreus1268 Ehhhh. I know bout that, I was talking more about how ships handle it in multiple ways etc.
Passive sonar will have deadspots and will be weaker if the ships is moving as well.
@@jannegrey593 Fixed arrays solve that particular problem. As for ships, going active is an option.
Always interesting. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience 👍👍
I feel a good way to distinguish between a drone and a torpedo, cruise missle, etc. is the guidance system from launch to target. Most of these armed drones still require an operator to manually control it into the target. However, missiles, etc, use built-in guidance systems and "think" independently about how to physically get to the traget after being given one. That said, things like the Shahed using this distinction would be a cheap and very basic version of a long-range missile as it's GPS guided (I believe). Which I think would be a fair way to describe them apposed to being described as a drone.
Another fantastic video! Thanks!
An interesting take on remotely guided loitering torpedos
The Kettering bug ww1
Imagine a swarm of small underwater drones with shaped charges blasting holes in every compartment
Actually, nothing stops us from programming a torpedo to go to a certain coordinate slowly and silently, and then listen for targets and engage if it finds anything. There are (or at least were) two-speed torpedoes, nothing stops us from building one.
Still, a good torpedo is expensive, giving them the terminal speed, velocity, and guidance is costly. Might still worth it - you don't have to expose yourself to shoot them, you just need some good satellite images on where the enemy is.
This might be a game changer at sea. You might be more cautious where you sail your carrier group if a swarm of these can just appear from the depths...
Torpedoes can also sink to the bottom in shallow water in a channel or other places where surface ships pass to wait for them to pass over them. When they do, the torpedo explodes and breaks the ship's keel.
Please keep these Great videos coming!
Great insight as always!
Houthi and the Blowfish?
Yes lmfao
Thank you Sir !
I hope you're feeling better mate!
I agree with Paul . Its been too long since you Posted. Hungry for your Content!!!!
Legend is back!
I think the naming convention will possibly settle out with calling the ones that go boom drone torpedoes, and the ones that don't sticking with AUV.
Whats the bet the yanks come up with a bunch of awkward backronyms for their versions though?
Anyway, I'm interested to see what the defense solutions work out as. Naively, I might suggest torpedo booms coming back into vogue for harbour defense?
Thank you
If the target was a ship, there's no reason you couldn't operate a slow electrical long-range underwater drone with a fast chemically propelled torpedo onboard, right? Or model it as a 'mk48 Extended Range Guidance Kit', clipped on to the back of the torpedo, if you like
Excellent.
I'm curious about the loitering potential of these. Ballast control can very low energy (for a large payload), and sitting nearly static on the ocean floor is about as stealthy as watercraft can get. An onboard system could allow it to surface to recharge via solar, drift into position, and/or relay instructions or observations. Something between a torpedo and a mine. With a network of these shifting about and increasing in numbers over a few years, the swarm potential partially nasty.
You can always say the difference between torpedoes and underwater drones is how they’re deployed and employed by the military. They’re constructed with different equipment for different capabilities such as range, speed, stealth, endurance, reconnaissance, etc.
that was my first thought. the difference is usecase and mission profile
Very interesting thanks 🙂🤘
And again, the world is becoming an increasingly unsafe place; I don't even want to imagine when these things take on a life of their own. Thanks for the information.
Great video and information, could you create a circular chart with qualifiers to illustrate the differences?
Thanks. Watching your videos is always a pleasure.
19:45 If the weapon had a marketing brochure it would mention "hand crafted" and "artisanal production methods"
"making extensive use of pre loved hardware"
Welcome back with your ☆☆☆☆☆ content ❤
Thanks, HI Sutton.
Thank you.
Love the video keep it up!
Probably the best way to counter loitering USVs is to develop much smaller loitering USVs which are similar in concept to 'smart mines'. These could be deployed in an area with suspected USV warfare and programmed to home in on the sonar signature of the enemy USV, its electronic emissions and the like. Then they would just kamikaze into them with grenade sized shaped charges. They could be programmed to spread out and maneuver like a widely spaced school of fish, surveil a particular area, and then return to the mothership at the end of their patrol to be gathered up and recharged.
You forgot to mention one important distinction between conventional systems (torpedoes, cruise missiles) and and novel systems (drones, UUVs) is the launch platform. Most of the conventional systems are launched by specialised carriers (planes, submarines) and are unable to self-launch. Novel systems, on the other hand are designed to be self launched.
It's a cheap, crafty guided torpedo. Single use: check. Travels underwater: check. Unmanned: check. Not necessarily deployed from a submarine: check. These are a tiny, shorter range and far less sophisticated version of the giant long range nuclear torpedo deployed from the Belgorod.
Hello again, H I ! Never mind the pause since last time, Quality has a Quantity All Its Own!
Very informative! Are there any pics out there about the electrical connection/cable between a torpedo and a submarine? Or similar stuff?
Really quite intersting!
"They are more for going up and down than they are for going along" -H I Sutton. Can I get this on a t-shirt?
Forgot to mention the SUVs and TRUCKS (of peace).
navies may choose to have armed UUVs on a sub alongside a load of more traditional torpedo's in the future, as tech advances, having a controllable loitering sea-mine is a terrifying thought, or a ISR platform that can snoop around at range (or *very* deep) for the launch sub at standoff range, akin to the loyal wingman of the USAF, even peek at the surface in a heavy ASuW environment without risking the launch sub.
Well a Torpedo is a UAV too. Fido etc of WW2 were also self steering drones.
Is it unscripted as usual and is Sutton apologizing? 😂😂😂❤❤❤❤
Very good watching. Went in search of the Mk41 example to find out more but couldn't get good search resolution on that particular model, what makes it so interesting. Perhaps will revisit? Anyways, good video. I'm subbed.
What would term a reusable sea drone that could carry a sea mine and drop it on the approach to an enemy harbor?
The non-reusable version of that is called the (submarine launched) mobile mine. Its a Mk 37 torpedo with one or more warheads that acts like a torpedo till it gets to its destination then becomes a mine. The newer version drops a warhead then goes to a second location and becomes a bottom mine itself.
Post more please! If you run out of current events I’m sure we would all love to hear some (unscripted) historical content
Any day H I Sutton drops a video is a good day!
I have always looked at torpedoes as drones, even when they aren't very intelligent and sometimes attack their owners.😂
Like a drone they have always maintained their depth and direction🤔
The sub-sea drone just takes the submarine out and becomes a very dangerous loitering munition.
I enjoy your videos ❤
Are AUVs able to communicate fully submerged without needing an antenna at the surface?
Loitering submerged without losing comms opens up more possibilities, while being difficult to detect.
Not unless they have also been able to change the laws of physics. See the titan submersible.
You can send a AUV any distance with a solar panel and just charging buoyancy.
Whale's sharks, dolphins etc, do naturally to cover great distances with minimal calorie cost.
You could dump these in the water right outside the factory and have them deploy themselves wherever needed.
'Kill Drone' seems to sum up these systems.
I would use "torpedo" to be something launched to attack a known target in a limited amount of time and distance (1 hour? 10km?), with little control other than guidance and perhaps a disable function, and further designed to operate only in environments free of constraints requiring navigation. If it has no explosive or similar, it must be a UUV. If the time and distance are past some limit, UUV. If it picks its own target, UUV. If it does any navigation other than a straight line to close with the target, UUV.
Using the U-Drone as a carrier for a bundle of smaller torpedoes, similar to intercontinental rockets that are carrying multiple warheads… oh wait, isn’t that simply an unmanned U-Boat?
One more observation. AUVs being Electric and running slower will be much quieter, than a Torpedo running fast with a thermal or chemical propulson system .
Why not a two stage AUV?
Electric power while it is hunting it's target. Then launching a faster, smaller component once in range.
Maybe the first stage can return to base for a reload.
I think the distinction between drone and torpedo/cruise missile is that a drone doesn't necessarily need to be itself an explosive device. The problem distinguishing comes then when you're considering purely kamikaze drones in my opinion
Where is Aquaman when you need him? Ah. That's right. Had forgotten that he was training belugas for Putin. Hvaldimir, we hardly knew ye.
It's been too long since you posted content. If you posted content everyday, I would watch it.
He has a job, and it's free. So,be patient.
@@Syndr1this is part of his job as a defense analyst, according to him.
Quality over quantity.
How you feel about the Reds this season?
@@treky4life488 feeling pretty good! Loving De La Cruz and India!
Interesting.
Difference between uav and cruise missle? I propose loiter ability/time and guidance method. A drone tends to use first person viual guidance to target, whereas a cruise missle tends to use terrain/satellite/laser/inertial/etc. guidance. Cruise missles tend to have limited to no loiter time, whereas drones have extended loiter time.
back in the day we had "maverick" tv guided missiles on the A10. they were just called guided missiles
I posit that the difference would be if the vehicle was designed to go back to the deployer and be re-deployed if it wasn’t “used”. Drones can land and be refuelled and sent out again, I would presume that a cruise missile is less able to do so?
It interesting to observe the rapid iteration of various designs for expendable UAVs by Ukraine, especially as part of a broader area-denial/anti-access program to frustrate Russia's Black Sea fleet assets. Simply introducing a level of doubt about maritime security will compel Russia (and other countries) to reexamine their procedures and consider effective counter-measures to protect their naval assets at sea or in perhaps even port.
And while this is something I support for Ukraine's continued resistance against their unlawful occupier, I really do hope that the US DoD, USN, DARPA and other affiliate agencies are thinking about the implications of this capability in regards to potential confrontations with the PLAN in the South China Sea.
I think one of the ancestors of these kind of weapons was the Italo-German "Fallschirm-Motorbombe LT 350" build 1942. It was dropped by parachute in a harbor full of ships and circled around (programmed for different circle-radii and changing turn directions) for about one hout at low speed in a depth of 2 to 6m. It was not very successful. Interestingly the designation "LT" stands for air launched torpedo and the name stood for motorized bomb or mine. So the challenge to find a correct name for this kind of weapon is still around.
One of the larger narratives that all things drones seem to be bringing up is the potential for large shifts in the defense industry at large. In the west they are oligopolies, too big to fail, always over budget and slow. These drone shops are the exact opposite. So will be interesting to see if there is any real disruption caused by these small players or, if like with other sectors, once a drone maker becomes successful to a point, will the traditional players simply come in and buy them up.
An hour ago, curse you UA-cam algorithm....its a weapon against information
Same as with the telephone, smart torpedoes are something far different than your standard torpedoes…
17:18 you always cover the propeller geometry because you can use computational methods to figure out what sound a propeller makes from its shape
What about "drone mines"? Do they exist? Would the count as an armed underwater drone or are the just cheap smart seamines?
I mean someone must have come up with a drone that dives to a certain spot, then stays dormant or in some kind of observer mode till it gets an order or a target of opportunity presents itself and then the "drone mine" steers itself in.
I think the Quickstrike air-dropped mine does something similar?
There is/was a US mine that rests on the seabed and will release and target ships based on their acoustic signature, but I'm not sure of the name or whether it is still in service. Maybe it was CAPTOR? That uses a torpedo to target enemy ships or submarines passing nearby.
There are mines from the cold war that work somewhat like that. Although the word mine might mislead some, it is a torpedo launcher with passive sensors looking out for signals of an enemy vessel.
I really think torpedoes will get modified with better guidance systems, we've seen such a shift with equipment like the APKWS, putting a Homing and guidance system on a rocket and building an ATGM out of it. Maybe it will happen below the surface too one day
Ah yes, AUVs/UUVs or 'smart(er) torpedoes' - when you no longer need much of a navy at all to go after another navy. Technology is amazing.
Do you still have a merch store?
Damn the Torpedoes, Full Spee.... Umm, Damn the Sea Mines, err.... Kamikaze--wait, can't say that one.... Damn the One Way Attack UAV.... Oh, Hell, Damn Them All, Full Speed Ahead!
"Too late!" she cried.
Poseidon is already here and Belgorod is at sea, now!
You made an interesting comment about the iranian photographs and how they cover the aft section and hypothesised that it was to cover up the fact that it may be wire guided.
Now I do not know if it may be a bit of a myth or not, but I heard that propellers on submarines and the like tend to be covered in photos because they can provide some insight into their characteristics and roughly what kind of noise they would make. I ask this now because I am not sure how much truth there is in this and you probably know something about it.
@HISuttonCovertShores >>> Great video...👍
Very interesting as always. More, please. How about one on narco submarines?
He's done narco submarines. Very good and informative, also.
Slow, various sizes and shapes, various means of propulsion and guidance, clumsy to deploy. By gosh you're right! These are not torpedo builders! These are torpedo history reenactors!
haha
(Not A Torpedo)
Ok, you got me.