Hi. As I am French, I will provide some precisions on these videos. First of all, what we see here is “la boxe française not “la savate”. Moreover, it’s written on the first video that was filmed at Joly-Normandin. The difference being that la savate comes from the street while la boxe française is the bourgeois version of the savate and « chausson » (slipper). The takedowns demonstrated here are the most politically correct from the academic boxing of Charlemont's school. In ancient savate, they were mixed with a lot of dirty fighting that few teachers dared to describe in their books. Over time, they were gradually eliminated and then replaced by jiu jitsu from 1900. For example, the double leg ( (coup de tête avec ramassement de jambes) was originally a technique used by the thugs. They would execute it while talking to their victim. The goal was to knock her out by banging her head on the ground. Catching the kicking leg of an opponent was permitted until the 1970s like muay thai and then banned in favor of the "four-limb fencing." Thanks for saying that the greco roman wrestling is French, very few people know that. Analyzing the different martial arts through your judoka background is a great concept. Keep up the good work ! Et félicitation pour ton français qui est bien meilleurs que mon anglais!
What you describe is the complete French system: Boxe Francaise (the ring sport fighting art), Savate de Rue (the self-defense street fighting art), La Lutte Parisienne (the grappling art) and Panache (the dirty tricks art). They are all part of the whole.
The sad part of the history is that most of the great French fighters, most of whom fought as soldiers or resistance, were killed by the Nazis during WWII.
It's probably from the All Japan Police Tournament (or something along those lines), one of the few tournaments that still allows that. Pre-war kendo or gekiken had all sorts of grappling stuff in it, you could for instance score an ippon by tossing your opponent on the ground and ripping off their mask, but that stuff has been removed to completely separate kendo into just the sword techniques. I'd recommend watching videos from that tournament in general, it's the fiercest kendo you can find. The people participating are "police officers" in name only, they are professional martial artists whose livelihood depends on how well they do in the tournament, so they REALLY want to win and the pressure is insane.
You can believe it or not, but 7 years ago i was reading History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi, a martial arts manga, and one of the protagonists, Sakaki, is a karate master who fought a Savate practitioner who THREW HIM using some of these "ancient techniques" that even looked the same! I mean, the level of research the author put in was incredible! Kudos!
Congratulations on this very interesting video. I didn't know you can speak french, that's cool. As French, I'm proud you made a video and research about "the forgotten techniques" of savate. As I told you in another comment, I really appreciate your work, your channel is one of the best for those who love martial arts history and so on, your channel is more oriented on grappling or judo cause it's your main background, it doesn't matter for me. I practice wushu, sanda, BJJ and a real lover of martial arts history. Never give up.
Love the vintage savate footage. Although the French savate boxers are only light sparring in the intro I can't help but notice their extended arms, similar to old bare knuckle boxers like John L Sullivan, is very similar to the wing chun centerline stance with the extended arm similar to the wing chun bridge arm which is a "feeler" arm similar to how a boxer uses the jab. @3:30 I believe it's called a snap-mare and it's seen a lot in pro wrestling. Is it practical? Is it a high percentage move? I appreciate Chadi expressing polite concern over the new names that some BJJ and submission wrestling styles are giving to old judo and jujutsu techniques. I suppose that's why John Danaher uses judo terminology to describe BJJ techniques. If it ain't broke, why fix it and there is importance in acknowledging the source material otherwise it's just plagiarism. And judo and jujutsu has had a long history in France as I mentioned in another post referring to Eric Pariset's Ju-jitsu Traditionnel.
7:00 is actually a teamwork attack, where your shorter friend launches himself off your shoulders at a group of guys wearing the rival rue's color leotards.
Don’t believe all Jesse’s theories. Humans been kicking each other forever. French sailer pick up kicking from their voyages to the South Pacific along with tattoos.
great stuff chadi as per usual ..modern savate is devastating today ,but in the old days of British music halls such judokas like Tiger Otani and Gunji Koizumi took on all comers from Boxers , Wrestlers and Boxe Francais Savate exponents for prize money before they established themselves into the B.J.A . for Koizumi and B.J.C. for Otani .
@@Chadi it's a pity that some of Chalmonts students who apired to be maestros of Savate where lost to the Great War of WW1 .Many Savate masters never made it back and Savate itself was on the brink of extinction at that time !. I only know this due to meeting in 1980's a silver glove ( argent ) instructor/French champion Salem Assili , who was training partner to Dan inosanto in the art of Kali and Escrima . and is today st ill a savate and Kali instructor .:).
0:00 - Introduction 0:55 - Passer la jambe à l'adversaire pour le faire tomber *Leg Sweep* / Ko-soto-gari 2:10 - Double leg sweep variant 2:50 - Ramassement des jambes après coup de tête *Leg Throw* / Morote-gari 3:30 - Coup de hanche en tête pour riposte contre ceinture arrière *Hip Toss against bear hug from behind* / Ippon-seoi-nage 4:00 - Enfourchement sur les coups de pieds de figure *Leg Scoop* /(No judo throw) 4:25 - Coup de hanche en ceinture à gauche *Vertical Hip toss from the left* / O-goshi 5:30 - Coup de hanche en tête à droite *Horizontal hip toss from the right* / Koshi-guruma 6:55 - Enfourchement par la tête *Head scooping* / (No judo throw) 7:40 - Conclusion
I am a judoka and TKD / Hapkido practitioner who trained with a South Korean master and ex- commando captain. The “reverse” ogoshi is found on Hapkido as well as the scoop throw between the legs.
I'm currently a student in Elite Martial Arts in Brevard County Florida and the class I take teaches Savate. I only know few Savate kicks by watching Savate videos on UA-cam by Professor Salam Asli.
I was fortunate enough to train with Alaric DuCapcir (I believe his name is an alias) and covered many of these throws, as an old Judo player I was very surprised! Alaric has a UA-cam channel I'll find the link.
Congratulations for the great video! Speaking about the unique throw shown in 6:50, I've seen a similar technique performed by Prof. Salem Assli in his "Kickboxing Savate" videos series and yes, it's possible to find it in UA-cam, no fully explained but only glipsed, in ua-cam.com/video/lu2k0usxJn8/v-deo.htmlsi=1tZyb9UGJYlWHqG8&t=81. Unfortunately, I haven't further information if Prof. Assli developed this technique from other fighters or if he was based on the Joseph Charlemont's book.
The throwing technique shown at 3:40 is not identical with the one shown in the old picture at 3:35. In that old picture uke (defender) grabs tori (attacker) by the head/neck and not under the arm. I find it a pitty that the throwing techniques depicted in 4:09 and 7:00 are not demonstrated in action as with the other techniques. Nevertheless a nice and very informative video.
The Marvel comics books have this French villain called Batroc the Leaper, who is said to be skilled at Savate. I always imagined it to be a niche form of karate.
Did you do any savate? I’m reading about bartitsu at the moment, which is basically Barton selling Savate/La boxe Francaise and Jujutsu to the British!
There are some interesting comments I've seen from savate scholars. Apparently before these types of reels were made there were different forms of Savate between the aristocratic / officer class and the type of Savate by lower enlisted and commoners. Apparently the lower enlisted often were doing hard sparring with bareknuckle while the officers were more likely to use gloves and soft spar
Ah Chadi my boy. You do not disappoint. Thank you mon ami. Yes, I agree. Should I ever find a mans head in my crotch I will quickly understand, one way or the other. But all joking aside. This vintage Savate is pure gold. I love it when you dust off those old books and microfiche, digitize and share with us. Outstanding work sir! Keep it coming. How about one on Bando? Burmese martial arts? I'm sure your viewers will appreciate it. Peace.
I've used Figuare 53, when sombody's tried to kick Me. I"'ve also used Figure 55, when someone tried to Tackle Me. I saw him comin, went for a Headlock and took Him Down. Dude was Stronger, and quicker, but that Day, I was more devious.
The video was interesting, but half of the examples are illustrated with the judo video are completely different. Head throw is not an ippon-seoi-nage, the double leg takedown is actually a headbutt, the back-hip-fall is not an o-goshi.
ua-cam.com/video/3FmSmnYcF7Y/v-deo.html&ab_channel=TrinityMartialArts-East Salem would sometimes take us through some throws or wrestling from Lutte Parisienne.
Hi Chadi can you please explain? According to judo competition rules you are not allowed to grab the leg. Does this mean you can't do throws like morote gari, katagaruma or sukuinage?
Correct, some clubs still drill them however. it's also why you have quite a few older judo guys at BJJ academies, because the rules are similar to what they learnt how to do. A old judo guy in a BJJ tournament is terrifying because they might only have a blue/purple belt but they have like 20 odd years grappling experience.
Are we really going to just breeze past Greco-Roman wrestling being French? You got a video on that? You can't just peek my interest like that, and then leave me hanging. That's something an educator would do as a sly way to make someone do their homework. #props2you #GoodTeacher #NowIHaveResearch2Do (I just made those up, but GoodTeacher is probably legit.)
Watching this video from 1896, finally I understand why Savate lost at the first fight against british pugilism. This martial art was simply stupid at that time.
Hi. As I am French, I will provide some precisions on these videos.
First of all, what we see here is “la boxe française not “la savate”. Moreover, it’s written on the first video that was filmed at Joly-Normandin. The difference being that la savate comes from the street while la boxe française is the bourgeois version of the savate and « chausson » (slipper).
The takedowns demonstrated here are the most politically correct from the academic boxing of Charlemont's school. In ancient savate, they were mixed with a lot of dirty fighting that few teachers dared to describe in their books. Over time, they were gradually eliminated and then replaced by jiu jitsu from 1900. For example, the double leg ( (coup de tête avec ramassement de jambes) was originally a technique used by the thugs. They would execute it while talking to their victim. The goal was to knock her out by banging her head on the ground.
Catching the kicking leg of an opponent was permitted until the 1970s like muay thai and then banned in favor of the "four-limb fencing."
Thanks for saying that the greco roman wrestling is French, very few people know that. Analyzing the different martial arts through your judoka background is a great concept. Keep up the good work !
Et félicitation pour ton français qui est bien meilleurs que mon anglais!
Merci beaucoup pour l'infos additionnels
@@Chadi De rien mon ami. J'apprécie beaucoup ton travail et je continuerai de te suivre avec plaisir.
@@albrado3956 🙇🏻♂️
What you describe is the complete French system: Boxe Francaise (the ring sport fighting art), Savate de Rue (the self-defense street fighting art), La Lutte Parisienne (the grappling art) and Panache (the dirty tricks art). They are all part of the whole.
The sad part of the history is that most of the great French fighters, most of whom fought as soldiers or resistance, were killed by the Nazis during WWII.
I did not expect that footsweep during a kendo match. It came out of nowhere with a super vicious finishing slash. Good stuff.
Apparently kendo had a lot that stuff and pushes to knock opponents over.
Yeah it was sweet!
Me too, Awsome.!
It's probably from the All Japan Police Tournament (or something along those lines), one of the few tournaments that still allows that. Pre-war kendo or gekiken had all sorts of grappling stuff in it, you could for instance score an ippon by tossing your opponent on the ground and ripping off their mask, but that stuff has been removed to completely separate kendo into just the sword techniques.
I'd recommend watching videos from that tournament in general, it's the fiercest kendo you can find. The people participating are "police officers" in name only, they are professional martial artists whose livelihood depends on how well they do in the tournament, so they REALLY want to win and the pressure is insane.
@@penttikoivuniemi2146 Hey, thank you! I'm definitely gonna look into it.
I am both a judoka and the Savateur, and I think this is a very good assessment of the throws of Savate. Excellent video 👍🍻
Thank you Andrew
The book’s combatants look extremely HAPPY, REALLY REALLY HAPPY.
You might even say "gay".
I always find it cool how old Savate and old Capoeira share the same throw technique as well similar idea to approach a strike🤙🏿
I was thinking the same thing. Some of these techniques remind me of Kalixto's illustrations of Capoeira techniques.
I love savate, never practiced it but it has always seem more beautiful to me than muay thai, so I'm glad to see more content about this art
@@saltypepper4028 lmao, as someone that practiced muay thai a bit, they do have that "Stand strong like a rock" thing haha
Savate is part of my Jkd curriculum. Great art for power, speed and deceptiveness.
You can believe it or not, but 7 years ago i was reading History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi, a martial arts manga, and one of the protagonists, Sakaki, is a karate master who fought a Savate practitioner who THREW HIM using some of these "ancient techniques" that even looked the same! I mean, the level of research the author put in was incredible! Kudos!
Indeed
Oh this is FANTASTIC!! I had no idea!
Beautiful brother. Truly.
Savate has two sides (or sub-styles), modern savate and Savate De Rue.
This is the only channel where I hit like even before watching the video, I just know it'll be good 👍
This means a lot to me thank you
This is awesome how you're exploring grappling in the striking arts. Keep up the good work!
Thank you very much
Savat - fantastik! Salut from Russia!!!
Chadi is most underrated you tuber ever !
Thank you 🙇🏻♂️
@@Chadi wc 👍👌
Congratulations on this very interesting video. I didn't know you can speak french, that's cool. As French, I'm proud you made a video and research about "the forgotten techniques" of savate. As I told you in another comment, I really appreciate your work, your channel is one of the best for those who love martial arts history and so on, your channel is more oriented on grappling or judo cause it's your main background, it doesn't matter for me. I practice wushu, sanda, BJJ and a real lover of martial arts history. Never give up.
Thank you very much for the support
Thank you so much for sharing!
I didn't know much about this martial art, thanks
🙇🏻♂️
I love all of your posts, hope things turn around for you. All the best.
Love the vintage savate footage. Although the French savate boxers are only light sparring in the intro I can't help but notice their extended arms, similar to old bare knuckle boxers like John L Sullivan, is very similar to the wing chun centerline stance with the extended arm similar to the wing chun bridge arm which is a "feeler" arm similar to how a boxer uses the jab.
@3:30 I believe it's called a snap-mare and it's seen a lot in pro wrestling. Is it practical? Is it a high percentage move?
I appreciate Chadi expressing polite concern over the new names that some BJJ and submission wrestling styles are giving to old judo and jujutsu techniques. I suppose that's why John Danaher uses judo terminology to describe BJJ techniques. If it ain't broke, why fix it and there is importance in acknowledging the source material otherwise it's just plagiarism.
And judo and jujutsu has had a long history in France as I mentioned in another post referring to Eric Pariset's Ju-jitsu Traditionnel.
Catch guys can do this throw, and yes if it ain't broke don't fix
A million thumbs up for the French! Now I'm going to go read the entire book!
Enjoy
Thanks for your diligent research and excellent editing Chadi . Much appreciated and all the best .
Thank you very much
7:00 is actually a teamwork attack, where your shorter friend launches himself off your shoulders at a group of guys wearing the rival rue's color leotards.
This is one of the most practical foot sweep video. Thanks
You're welcome
Joli travail sur la traduction! J apprécie!!! 👍👍
Merci
Savate was ancestor of karate, but Japanese have organized it and systematized on a new level and added it to some elements of Chinese hands ✌
Don’t believe all Jesse’s theories. Humans been kicking each other forever. French sailer pick up kicking from their voyages to the South Pacific along with tattoos.
Damn, Chadi, for some reason I find this one of your most informative videos yet.
Thank you 🙇🏻♂️
Love savate and Greco-Roman wrestling
great stuff chadi as per usual ..modern savate is devastating today ,but in the old days of British music halls such judokas like Tiger Otani and Gunji Koizumi took on all comers from Boxers , Wrestlers and Boxe Francais Savate exponents for prize money before they established themselves into the B.J.A . for Koizumi and B.J.C. for Otani .
100%
@@Chadi it's a pity that some of Chalmonts students who apired to be maestros of Savate where lost to the Great War of WW1 .Many Savate masters never made it back and Savate itself was on the brink of extinction at that time !. I only know this due to meeting in 1980's a silver glove ( argent ) instructor/French champion Salem Assili , who was training partner to Dan inosanto in the art of Kali and Escrima . and is today st ill a savate and Kali instructor .:).
0:00 - Introduction
0:55 - Passer la jambe à l'adversaire pour le faire tomber *Leg Sweep* / Ko-soto-gari
2:10 - Double leg sweep variant
2:50 - Ramassement des jambes après coup de tête *Leg Throw* / Morote-gari
3:30 - Coup de hanche en tête pour riposte contre ceinture arrière *Hip Toss against bear hug from behind* / Ippon-seoi-nage
4:00 - Enfourchement sur les coups de pieds de figure *Leg Scoop* /(No judo throw)
4:25 - Coup de hanche en ceinture à gauche *Vertical Hip toss from the left* / O-goshi
5:30 - Coup de hanche en tête à droite *Horizontal hip toss from the right* / Koshi-guruma
6:55 - Enfourchement par la tête *Head scooping* / (No judo throw)
7:40 - Conclusion
Wow, it's amazing how you can find the same techniques from fighting systems all over the world. We have those same grappling moves in Choy Li Fut.
Indeed
Your French is so beautiful. Has to be the most beautiful language. Good video.
Thank you Robert🙇🏻♂️
Loved it, I subbed
I am a judoka and TKD / Hapkido practitioner who trained with a South Korean master and ex- commando captain. The “reverse” ogoshi is found on Hapkido as well as the scoop throw between the legs.
Do I need a moustache to perform these throws?
Excelĺent!
L'explication Anglais -Francais est vraiment superbe
Absolutely amazing!
Thank you
Good techniques martial arts skills
Interesante!!!! Buen trabajo!!!! Gracias!!!!
🙇🏻♂️
excellent work !
Thank you
I'm currently a student in Elite Martial Arts in Brevard County Florida and the class I take teaches Savate. I only know few Savate kicks by watching Savate videos on UA-cam by Professor Salam Asli.
I'll check
The French always innovative and creative
3:27 there's actually a technique in sosuishi ryu jujutsu thats just like this technique in savate.
I'll look it up
@@Chadi It's called shikorobiki from michael calandra channel, sosuishi ryu jujutsu kata, it's about 41 minutes long.
I was fortunate enough to train with Alaric DuCapcir (I believe his name is an alias) and covered many of these throws, as an old Judo player I was very surprised!
Alaric has a UA-cam channel I'll find the link.
ua-cam.com/video/D7UGETL_Mnw/v-deo.html
I'll check
Thanks for sharing my channel! :p
Merci beaucoup! Very nice book. You might like the book of De Petter too.
Sure
Congratulations for the great video! Speaking about the unique throw shown in 6:50, I've seen a similar technique performed by Prof. Salem Assli in his "Kickboxing Savate" videos series and yes, it's possible to find it in UA-cam, no fully explained but only glipsed, in ua-cam.com/video/lu2k0usxJn8/v-deo.htmlsi=1tZyb9UGJYlWHqG8&t=81. Unfortunately, I haven't further information if Prof. Assli developed this technique from other fighters or if he was based on the Joseph Charlemont's book.
Definitely the technique names should refer to the actual movements. I so agree.
100%
Thanks much !
🙇🏻♂️
Wow didn’t know that about savate
I loved the martial arts documentaries on savage one was of national geographic with female Canadian host & the other was called fight quest
yay savate stuff!!
The throwing technique shown at 3:40 is not identical with the one shown in the old picture at 3:35. In that old picture uke (defender) grabs tori (attacker) by the head/neck and not under the arm. I find it a pitty that the throwing techniques depicted in 4:09 and 7:00 are not demonstrated in action as with the other techniques.
Nevertheless a nice and very informative video.
The Marvel comics books have this French villain called Batroc the Leaper, who is said to be skilled at Savate.
I always imagined it to be a niche form of karate.
Doesnt GSP play him in the movies? And series.
Did you do any savate? I’m reading about bartitsu at the moment, which is basically Barton selling Savate/La boxe Francaise and Jujutsu to the British!
Bartitsu took savate and french canne
There are some interesting comments I've seen from savate scholars. Apparently before these types of reels were made there were different forms of Savate between the aristocratic / officer class and the type of Savate by lower enlisted and commoners. Apparently the lower enlisted often were doing hard sparring with bareknuckle while the officers were more likely to use gloves and soft spar
Savate is really old and started during really terrible times in French, for sure there's not one expression of it. I will study more on Savate.
@@Chadi I feel the same way. Still exploring myself!
The human body can only be moved so many ways which is.why U see alot of similarity between martial arts
I was just thinking about this subject thank you so much.
🙇🏻♂️
Ah Chadi my boy. You do not disappoint. Thank you mon ami. Yes, I agree. Should I ever find a mans head in my crotch I will quickly understand, one way or the other. But all joking aside. This vintage Savate is pure gold. I love it when you dust off those old books and microfiche, digitize and share with us. Outstanding work sir! Keep it coming. How about one on Bando? Burmese martial arts? I'm sure your viewers will appreciate it.
Peace.
Thank you Stefan, i need to do my research on Bando first
Woooo!!!
I've used Figuare 53, when sombody's tried to kick Me. I"'ve also used Figure 55, when someone tried to Tackle Me. I saw him comin, went for a Headlock and took Him Down. Dude was Stronger, and quicker, but that Day, I was more devious.
Awesome
The video was interesting, but half of the examples are illustrated with the judo video are completely different. Head throw is not an ippon-seoi-nage, the double leg takedown is actually a headbutt, the back-hip-fall is not an o-goshi.
Does Chadi speak french???
He does!
Ramassement = gathering in English. You're grabbing the legs towars you while butting the opponent in the groin.
100%
I see a lot of asían martial arts in Savate is it based on some chinise or Greek fight can you tell me????
No i wouldn't think so
Nice
Thank you
ua-cam.com/video/3FmSmnYcF7Y/v-deo.html&ab_channel=TrinityMartialArts-East Salem would sometimes take us through some throws or wrestling from Lutte Parisienne.
does anyone know the name of the double leg sweep? I can’t find videos on it
La Lutte Parisienne
Hi Chadi can you please explain? According to judo competition rules you are not allowed to grab the leg. Does this mean you can't do throws like morote gari, katagaruma or sukuinage?
Correct, some clubs still drill them however. it's also why you have quite a few older judo guys at BJJ academies, because the rules are similar to what they learnt how to do. A old judo guy in a BJJ tournament is terrifying because they might only have a blue/purple belt but they have like 20 odd years grappling experience.
Kata guruma can be done without the leg, but yes the others are gone
Do you think Savate was influenced by any of the fighting systems of Indochine?
It was not
They look like drunk hairdressers fighting XD
👍
Hi! What is the history of Savate?
Les maitre d'arme, pratiquaient, l'escrime, la canne, le bâton, la savate et la lutte gréco-romaine
あの体勢からRKOやるところ想像して笑った🤣
実際はフライングメイヤーみたいに投げたんだろうな
Next up: L'art de la boxe francaise where combatants wear onesie instead.
It seems like the ideal fighting system would be a combination of Savate and Judo.
Damn your French is good.
I thought he was based in France/ is French?
@@MichaelWilliams-mo1vv well than that would be why.
Thank you
Well he is french..??
@@riikoperez well he's in this conversation, perhaps we should ask him,
Chadi ....are you Lebanese?
Yes I'm of Lebanese origins
@@Chadi
Yessss...I knew it
كل الاحترام اخي الكريم تحياتي لك من الاردن
Are we really going to just breeze past Greco-Roman wrestling being French? You got a video on that?
You can't just peek my interest like that, and then leave me hanging. That's something an educator would do as a sly way to make someone do their homework.
#props2you #GoodTeacher #NowIHaveResearch2Do (I just made those up, but GoodTeacher is probably legit.)
I linked it at the end, you can look in my channel i have a video
Watching this video from 1896, finally I understand why Savate lost at the first fight against british pugilism. This martial art was simply stupid at that time.
I wouldn't call it stupid
Tais-toi.
It was imcomplete but modern Savate Will do it Great in mma
You got it, Oscar. "Was" is the verb. Martial Arts become "smarter" when collide one each other.
👍
🙇🏻♂️