MSI Preview with Special Guests Emily, Drakos, & Aux | The Dive
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- Опубліковано 5 чер 2024
- Hello and welcome back to another episode of The Dive! Kobe, Meteos, and - curveball - Commissioner MarkZ kick off the episode (Azael comes back later). They talk about LPL rumors, LCS rumors, and LCS viewership. Unfortunately, Mark couldn’t delve into certain topics due to his insider knowledge. Later on, Azael joins Kobe and Meteos to talk MSI with regional correspondents Aux, Drakos, and Emily! Thanks for watching!
Timestamps:
00:00 - Intro, MarkZ subbing in for Azael, fearless draft
06:00 - LCS rumored to go to Bo3
09:17 - LCS viewership & new MarkZ video
15:26 - Episode breakdown, Welcome Aux to The Dive!
18:53 - Thoughts on Keria?
21:44 - T1 - “good deaths” and lane mechanics
26:30 - T1’s drafts
29:33 - Expectations for T1?
31:28 - Thoughts on GenG? Will they be better than T1?
40:19 - How does GenG do with carry tops?
44:35 - Kiin & Lehends - strengths and weaknesses
47:50 - Drakos joins The Dive!
50:44 - Expectations for the LEC? Where’s the LEC stock?
01:01:00 - Yike
01:03:30 - Define success for G2 at MSI
01:06:00 - Fnatic & Trymbi, Jun, and Noah
01:14:59 - Oscarinin
01:16:53 - Define success for Fnatic
01:19:49 - Bye Drakos! Welcome LPL's Correspondent Emily!
01:29:41 - Creme
01:31:27 - Is TES the ugly duckling of all LPL teams?
01:35:10 - Patch benefits for TES, draft issues, lane swap
01:40:49 - BLG, player breakdowns, and team fighting
01:48:13 - Azir?
01:53:39 - Define success for BLG & TES
You can always learn more and view the full match schedule at lolesports.com/schedule?leagu...
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I already highly respected Emily's opinion, but now seeing how she is the only one who took the time to watch multiple LPL games, and giving her based informed opinions, she is my LCS goat analyst.
Emily watches the LPL religiously, but to say she's the only one who watches games is just untrue.
I've watched 20-30 games of both LPL teams attending & I'm certain everyone else is prepping too! Emily definitely watches way more of the bottom teams etc though and knows the league extremely well.
@@isaaccb99Can't wait to see you and the rest of the team at MSI, Azael!!
You don't pay much attention to reality, do you...
Emily's brilliant. And every caster attending will be watching vods from every region attending.
Pay even a modicum of attention to LEC and you'll hear all the casters talk about LPL and LCK.
@@isaaccb99you da man azael
@@isaaccb99 I'm pretty sure people are just annoyed by Doublelift-esque comments that's popped up every year. We definitely appreciate the casters who do their research.
I’ve never been huge into LCS but I remember it was so much fun to randomly tune in and watch TSM with Bjerg play. There was such hype behind them whenever they played that it was so easy to just tune in and be invested. The difference this season is we got a rivalry brewing between FLY and TL which makes the games much more entertaining to watch. Honestly APA made the playoffs super entertaining as polarizing as he is.
For a while, it felt like LCS teams forgot they are meant to be providing an entertaining show along with winning. We see this with Brazilian teams, who know they can't win on the world stage but still put on an entertaining show.
I mean take a look at how competitive scenes have mostly been entertaining when the players are allowed to show more of their personalities, scenes like Starcraft 2 back in the day with huk, idra, MC is complete opposite of for example Overwatch now where everyone feels like a bot personality wise. It definitely makes for much more enjoyable watching when players can let personalities out, which in turn increases clashing/rivalries.
I think also how TL started playing aggressive with high kill games is definitely more entertaining
It’s entertaining to you because you are watching more than before lol
Emily on The Dive!!?? Drakos sleeper agent??!? I approve.
I can say that added the all chat and letting us see even more of the players personalities in the “online” age is a huge add to the enjoyment of the game.
It makes the players feel more like “real” sports players when football or basketball players shit talk during or after a game and you get to see it. It feels more real. More raw. And I am all about it.
Almost makes the show “players” seem like it has a chance of being real.
I was literally searching a dive video to watch and this drops
same haha
And its 2 hours long
bro SAME
That's because they've got yall hooked on the content loop
same LMAO
My infinite thirst for Markz content is finally being quenched HLL and now the dive let’s go
he's so defensive in this regardless of meteos constantly calling him out on his bullshit
your thirst was quenched with him trying to tell you that a 2 week break in the middle of the season is a good thing? he then goes on to say the "best option" what kind of crack is LCS smoking where they think that is a good decision, let alone the BEST ONE????
@@rynejones8513 you clearly are a brain rot league player if you think that’s what he meant lmao the stupidity of some people just continues to amaze me
@@rynejones8513 I can’t tell if your trolling or not lmao. If that’s really how you interpreted what he said than you clearly have some serious brain rot. It never ceases to amaze me how stupid and willfully ignorant some people are on the internet go touch grass nerd
@@rynejones8513 Best option while still getting to be on weekends and being stuck as VCT's little brother.
I'm so glad that you're all doing the dive during the break. Listening to this podcast at work, makes my day go by so much faster.
Not to mention how good and informative this way for the other regions.
Man Aux has some extremely well thought out and well stated points. His whole section was really insightful!
Top-tier content. Can’t get enough of the dive!
Great guests too and everyone’s chemistry was fantastic.
Can’t wait for MSI!
We love having Mark back. I went to LCS a few months ago and got to meet everyone but him. We'd love to see you around the LCS arena this summer!
perfect timing on this, watching/listening to make my morning
Kiin drew Jayce, TF, and Rumble bans all finals. It’s absurd to think he can’t play carries. Especially since those are champs 369 can’t play.
you don't watch too much lpl do you?
kiin's jayce sucks
Kiins Jayce is amazing and 369 has one of if not the best rumbles this split
@@usamaahmed404 369 cannot find laning leads with rumble like other elite players. Even his hyped up Rumble game, he was useless for the first 75% of the game. There id a reason he didn’t pick it or banned against him during playoffs.
@@victorrusu1913 369 only plays rumble against bottom tier teams. There’s a reason TES had no priority on it come the playoffs. Even 369s ultra hyped rumble game against WBG, he was useless for the first 80% of that game. Watch any other elite rumble, it’s a huge lane bully and high priority.
MSI special edition delivered & we as the viewers definitely ate!! Can’t wait for MSI! 🤩🤩
We welcome all the guests!!! The dive is the place for them.
This couldn't have dropped at a better time!
I love the concept of true fearless BO2's (all picked champs removed from pool for game 2), leaves more room for surprise picks to be impactful
Love the DIVE and appreciate ALL the content, but how did we not get a brief overview/even speak about the FLY - PSG matchup?
Probably next dive, I think they still have a week
emily is the best part of the lcs hands down. one of the very few analysts that is truly impartial and sees teams and their strenghts without personal bias clouding her view
Just when I think my birthday can't get any better, a TWO HOUR EPISODE?!?! What a day~
Happy bday
@@turkcansiz6877thank ya!
YES I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE 7 MORE D AYS OF HELL BUT WE GET PODCAST PRE MSI ETS GO
As always, I see Emily Rand, I click. Awesome to see her passion for LPL and hear her opinions!
WOOO DIVE DROPPED!
long dive episode, let’s go
Man Thank god Emily is so invested into lpl.
It’s crazy how wrong people tell tes story of this season because they only watch the finals 😅
I can’t believe jackeylove (not here) but from the community still gets called a inter even though he and viper were dominating in the regular season. Top 2 at least for jackey for lpl adc
If anything TES is severely underrated, just because they lost to the best team in the finals 3-1 after destroying JDG 6-1 and going to 5 games in upper bracket finals versus BLG. doesn't mean they are suddenly on the same tier as G2. Tes have had practically the same playoff run as T1 not that I think they are going to be better than T1 at MSI just putting it out there.
The day the dive stops making episodes is the day I stop looking forward to waking up in the morning
Very good episode! Thank you. Just one thing I would like to mention, for me it's crazy that analyst don't watch other regions.. not trying to target anyone. But I'm a financial manager who works +/- 50h/week and I still follow all top 4 regions. I dont see all small games(really bottom teams) from LPL/LCK but I see all top 5 teams games from 4 regions and I find it strange that sometimes analyst dont find the time to watch 20 games a week at least the TOP 4 teams from each top region..
I LOVE THESE VIDEOS ❤❤
First thing I remember from 369 is him dominating the world on Kled when he first went to worlds and I was sold then.
So glad to have Emily on, wish we could get her every week.
That said, could the editor not pick a better thumbnail? 🧐
True, scuffed thumby
Consider fearless, but remove bans and teams would draft for secures instead (exclusive lock on a champ to use one time in series and deny from opponent). Move to BO2 and then can have a set number of secures based on how long the series is (i.e. 4 for BO2, 6 for BO3, 10 for BO5) and then teams still have autonomy on what game they decide their secured champs should be cashed in for.
Viewership: I was “gone gone” I thought ..but the format and teams/personalities won me back.
Draft: consider fearless meaning all banned and picked champs out for 3 games. Means no repeat in best of 3 or 2 series. Means in best of 5 series (large tournament) that games 4 (champs reappear avail from game 1) and game 5 (champs reappear avail from game 2) …can still have high skill expression determine winner of series (not teemo game 5, etc) and also adds in strategy (ie do we pick-
Ban OP early in series so it’s available game 4/5 should it go there? Do we wait until game 3 but then it’s not available in game 4 or 5? …Etc)
I think the audience wants to see the champs they play being played professionally. I think by playing more champs you will get more people coming back to watch because they can relate a little more.
I think the best version of fearless draft is all champs that have been played are banned for future games but the banned champs can be picked/banned in game 2 onwards that way game 5s aren’t too insane cause having 80 pre banned champs going into a game before ban phase seems like it might be too much but who knows it could(probably would) be fun, just not for the players
Starving from markz content. Fill me up guy.
God I love Emily, man! Her and CptFlowers are some of THE best things that NA has EVER spawned as far as LoL goes in the "recent" years. Holy bajingo, please don't ever leave LoL casting/analyst desks, please.
PS: I'm not saying the others of the casters or analysts are bad, just that I at least feel they are more OG, but they deserve all the love as well!
I liked Dota 2's Midas tournament system; where you literally have a pool of money you have to spend on champs, their prices go up and down based off their W/L over the tournament (or in this case season) Probably hard af for the fans to follow but at the end of the day it gets the job done and adds a level of strategy.
Would make way too much sense for Riot, sounds like a good system tho
I guess Azir would be sold out by the final... xD
The absolute banger in qualifiers could be FNC vs TES before groups start.
true fearless for BO3, winners fearless for BO5.
yeah markz is so incorrect saying that fearless isn't good because they won't be comfortable on their 10th champion, well maybe they should be, these people are paid hundreds of thousands and sometimes millions of dollars and they can't play atleast 10 champions to a pro level?
Knowing 10 champs on your own isnt hard but having synergy on upwards of 50+ champions across your entire team is not as easy. That being said fearless draft is fun af to watch; you could see the level of play go down drastically for some teams
If every region isn't on board the international level of play of fearless draft regions may go down.
It's something worth experiencing or trying tho ❤
@@GameIplayS
The funniest is when Mark brings up fearless doesn't work with BO1. Lol mark, nobody cares about the BO1 regions
what if they just made the bans count for all 3 games so all game 1 bans count towards games 2/3/4/5 etc
Why don't they use specific clips and insert when they are being mentioned ? This isn't a live podcast so they could edit in the various clips they are referring to such as Bin ghosting across the map strictly for tempo advantages.. Would be a really nice addition imo
Even best of 2’s would be fun in the LCS. I think the point scoring should work like the MLB or NHL where each game still matters when playing a series. I’m much more of a fan of being able to split series, rather than you play 3 games and only 1 team gets 1 point. That way each game is important when tallying the totals at the end of a split.
Edit: with this system, you also are guaranteed to get a full series of games instead of it ending early. You can still play all 2-3 games, since each game tallies into the W or L columns.
Anyone have an idea on when the next dive episode is?
Right! A month is too long
Okay so when are we talking about what looks like success for LCS?
Kwasimodo no more words neede think of your banners guys
What about this as an alternative to draft, that all bans stand through out the series, so in bo1 it makes 0 change, but you only apply the fearless part to the first 3 banner champs from each team, per game. So by game 3 22 champs are banned and in a bo5, 34 champs are banned. The biggest issue I see with it tho is banning peoples 1 trick champs seems to hurt a lot more. Just a shower thought
2 game regular season series that combine into a single W or L in the standings with game time as the tiebreaker. Adds a new dimension of tension to games and forces teams to focus on snowballing leads quickly and cleanly which could be great practice for raising the region's level of play headed into international tournaments.
We don't have to guess. The increase in viewership is from giving Caedral and Baiano costreaming rights.
Can someone tell Meteos to bring the mic closer, I swear his volume is always low for me.
My biggest fear about the "real" fearless is the massive worry that an entire class could be gone by game 5. Like every single marksman could be gone. And although it sounds fun seeing some Pantheon Jarvan botlane but it'll be so bad and volatile.
Does true fearless mean the 10 banned champions are off the table as well, or only the 10 champions that actually got played? I think if the banned champions ate still viable game-to-game until they're picked, this wouldn't end up being a problem.
We currently have 24 botlane ADCs and 3-5 APCs. So for "no more Botlane Carries" to happen there would need to be 2 full rounds of just ADC bans and both sides picking stuff like Ziggs Mid, Karthus Jungle or Senna Seraphine duo. And as Mark said "not the effect we want"
Correct, true fearless is all both sides picked champion are banned. However there's more extreme version of it, by Elimination Mode at DoTA 2 back in the days. (@@jaydee4177
How is a Pantheon and Jarvan botlane bad? How is volatile bad? Seeing G2 and GenG win domestically but shit the bed internationally is getting tiresome and boring. It opens up a slouch of new strategies and ways players and coaches can be creative to get the edge in a matchup.
Obviously it's fine to iterate on fearless draft as in BO3 bans ALL champions that had presence but BO5 only bans played champs from being present in the next one. So while I'm not a fan of MarkZ his reaction, he has a point that what "we want" and what fearless draft accomplishes is not the same. Just stop being so afraid to make changes, LCS has hit rock bottom anyway. This is the first split that looked fun to watch since what? Since Bjerg left TSM? I don't think I ever enjoyed watching LCS afterwards.
Imo I think it's bad because I don't trust botlaners, specifically ADCs to be able to play those types of champions on a level that won't end up looking like inting for a large period of time. This isn't like toplaners like Bwipo playing Rengar. These are botlanes which took ages to understand Sona and Taric. I don't think we want to see a repeat of Doublelift Vladimir or the equivalent.
wake up babe, new The Dive just dropped
Idk about true fearless with bans implemented. I think fearless with just champs played from bkth sides.
Let’s just add 1 more ban to round two. Seems like it would do something?
Im honestly not sure if Fearless will prepare teams better for international competition unless Fearless draft will become the new standardised norm, if it does not then i doubt it will actually improve playerskill on the bigger stages. That being said for the viewer aspect of it i think Fearless draft will be much more hype to see where it puts greater importance on pocket picks you would otherwise not see played.
BO3 is a easy one, i think its simply more conclusive regular season matches giving a much more reliable or realistic image of team standings on top of preparing them better for the bigger international stages where currently the eastern teams have tonnes of yearround experience with best off series where the west only gets limited experience with that in Playoffs.
BO2 is a bit of a mixture, it does grant some experience in BO series while perhaps not giving as satisfactory feeling of win or loss, but ill counter that by saying two teams that play 1-1 it builds up the hype for the Playoff series where we will indeed get a definitive answer or outcome.
I think each team should get 3 Series Bans per game. For example, Game 1: both teams get to ban 3 champions for the whole series and then normal draft happens. Game 2: both teams get another set of series bans on top of a normal draft. Game 3: both teams get 3 more series bans, so in total each team will have banned out 9 champions from the series.
the hype for fearless is few.
While the season was overall a big success and I like the direction Mark is taking things, I also think it's the wrong approach on the 2 week break thing. Everyone has overwhelmingly stated that they dont like it. The fans are expressing discontent, but Mark basically says "nah yall are wrong, i was right. I stand by it."
Listen to the fans. We are giving you feedback that we dont like the 2 week break. Dont care what the reason for it is. Find a new solution.
Next dive when?
If we stop thinking about 2 games against the same team back to back as a best of 2 and instead two best of 1s, the tie problem goes away and the games get better and we get more games. 1 game red, 1 game blue and done.
searxh for caedrel vs ls 5 game draft. they do a five game draft where you cant pick champs thst have been picked or banned before. its a great watch as you really see how difficult it gets to find good drafts later on
Just to clarify for people:
It's quite different from how the LDL does it, which is what other leagues are copying.
In LDL what team A picks is banned for team A for the rest of the series, but team B can still pick it. Bans don't affect the other games.
Caedrel vs LS was all picks and bans are globally banned for the rest of the series. So going into game 5 draft there's been 80 champions banned. And then you can again ban 3 each.
Nobody has any clue on who’s going to win MSI. That’s what makes it so good.
people ignores that GENG roster this MSI is different. not to mentione they won the first lck split together.
Rather than fearless draft - couldn’t riot establish “sets” of playable/unplayable champs to be roasted every year (or split)? Like TCGs or Pokemon tournaments do?
Champs should only be available once for each team per series.
Each team should get 4 series wide bans. 1 hour before the series starts, each team picks 4 bans that cannot be played by either team for the entire series.
After each game, each team has to remove one of the series bans.
Regarding BO2's idea: One team stays on the stage for two games in a row but they're different teams. Then whoever started the day comes back to play the last game too. I think that would cut down on transition times and checks so only one team is transitioning at a time!
Have to say I'm with Meteos on best of 2 being an underrated format. I used to think ties were super lame, but after watching a bit of soccer it's really not that big of a deal.
@7:30 If best of 2s happen it would make sense to award a team that wins both 3 points, both teams in a tie 1 point, and no points for the team that loses both....similar to how european football does it...why has this never been discussed?
5:44 the meta game of the show became how quickly can we throw someone under the bus.
Emily with the All Might sweater
Let’s go
People underestimating TES looks so similar to last year’s MSI where everyone thought BLG was the worst eastern team but look at what happened.
with regards to the fearless draft and banning all used champs .... i enjoy watching teams run it back nad the game actually go different.... also it wont be hype when a non meta champ gets picked or a champ thats not been seen in ages.... also you just have to expect Azir in mid becuase he has a kit that pro teams want .... unless he gets nerfed into the ground
Oh hi Mark.
48:53 UmTi to Azael: "am i a joke to you?! "
For fearless BO5s why not just remove all bans for game 5. Makes game 5 draft more interesting because someone may have had a pop off game 3 on a champ that isn't normally important ban etc.
Love seeing Emily
Counter to worrying about getting shit champs in game 5. Teams either show the skill gap by winning the series before it gets there or they show their skill by knowing how to play more champs at a professional level
Fearless draft is boring because teams will just handshake picks. You get azir, then I get azir, you play orianna, then I play orianna. It doesn't fix the issue which is the meta is slow.
I'm a fan of both fearless and bo-2s in theory, not necessarily saying they will be a clear improvement, but i think both are attempting to solve a larger issue in a holistic way while also increasing hype. Tournaments like Lock-in are a great opportunity to experiment with structure and see what happens.
I will say this every time how old LCS Bo3s failed. It was the dual stream setup. it was impossible to pay attention to two streams and all that.
Do Bo3s with 8 teams. Have 2 bo3s on Friday. 3 bo3s on Saturday. 3 bo3s on saturday. Easy.
Fearless draft but bring back game 5 Blind Pick for the remaining champions
For Summer I hope they instead consider going one best of one round robin followed by a best of two round robin based on seeding from the first round robin. Consistent broadcast times, more games, no ties and a little bit of adaptation. Can prep the first draft, normal experience second draft. It ends up as a modified best of 3 by the end of the season.
Trading Wayward and Mark for 369 and Meiko is the best trade in all trades history. Just need to get rid of Tian for Wei and TES could win worlds.
LNG might be the dark horse of summer with the addition of TheShy, rumour has it that LNG is trying to get Ming
1:23:42 Gonna use that word in my meeting on Wednesday, thank you Emily 😅
The amount of ads on this video is insane
Best of 3 is just better! It should better prepare teams for playoffs and international events and that's a big W for a region.
Dude has never heard the word disseminate before
Caster:There seems like there is going to be a party in the bot lane...
Fnatic: I didn't get an invite, did you get an invite?? lets chrash that party..
Caster: And Clown Fiesta Begins
How to instantly make any league content better: add Emily.
I genuinely think most people that are in favor of fearless drafts are just bored of competitive league
I feel like not wanting to see Azir vs Taliyah for every game is pretty valid
Emily looks so much like Kobe in the thumbnail used, that it's actually disturbing.
Meteos, Kobe and Emily all confirmed related.
16:40 this segment is for doublelift kek
ESTRAL THE REAL UNDERDOG
damn markz really kicked azael for that tweet 💀
Emily Rand is a national treasure
more emily please !
Meteos about to desemenate his pants 🎉
AUX AS A LCK GUEST?? LMFAO
My thoughts on the fearless draft system are that it definitely isn't perfect, but I think the basic idea is that we need less of the same champions is at the core of it. More bans does that too, but I would argue generically more bans is actually MUCH WORSE at solving the problem than fearless is. The only way to get pros to pick a wider variety of champs is either more bans, or the draft needs significant changes in how it functions.
One method I considered for pro only is, perhaps having role order locked in during draft. As in, Top picks first, then jungle, then mid, then adc, then support. And before each role picks perhaps there can be two-four bans(one for each side, or hell, maybe two per side). That way everyone knows what they're targeting, and when things are going to be drafted. While on the surface this sounds pretty limiting, I think it actually would force teams to plan ahead better and think more strategically about their picks. It would also prevent any individual from being target banned out(as at most the opponent would have 2 bans for your role). You could even possibly make the bans role specific which adds an interesting layer of depth for flex picks, but that could be problematic should flex picks become dominant in the meta.
Overall, my point being that I think if we continue to view things through the lens of "how have we handled this problem in the past?" pro league is doomed to failure. Simply adding more bans wont fix the core issue of the same 10 champions in every game. Pure fearless risks harming the integrity of the game. I hope they take a risk and do something bold.
Completely agree
cool