A lot of TV camera crews used the Citroen to film the Horse Races as they had to travel on the grass or rough track, next to the race course. The Citroen CX was the only car that had a smooth enough ride to achieve the footage. CX was a brilliant car.
@@malo4200 Mercedes always uses high strength steel, so that explains why the door sounds the way it does. it's a Mercedes thing after all, but in order to get high strength steel, it's going to cost you money. but that's why people think the Germans are the best, because they use the most expensive steel, but that's not the case. Mercedes that was just their thing, see people think GM doesn't know anything about quality, or that Lexus is the best at luxury, but long before Lexus was ever a thing, Cadillac was the pinnacle of quality, atleast at one time. but the sound of a door closing, has nothing to do with quality, it's because the door is heavy. now to there defense, having high strength steel can help with auto accidents, but that's not necessarily always the case. cars of the 90's for example, are actually more durable despite the fact it's sheet metal. but the way they use it, during crash testing tests, you'll notice the car has some resistance, that's because sheet metal is designed to flex and bend. hard body steel has no give or resistance, so if another steel body hit the car, it has no way of resisting. so as reliable as old Mercedes was, you would not want to get in a accident in it.
It's like EV's today. With few, they are subsidized and are charged with electricity taxed only by VAT. But in EU, most significant income of most governments are fuel taxes (because everyone has to move). Once EV's will have any significant marketshare (I'm not talking about Netherlands nutjobs with poisoned land, pretending to save planet with couple of EV's or extremly rich per capita Norway, again ruining environment far more than any other country per capita), I'm pretty sure EV's charging will be taxed alot.
It's really annoying how folk started using linseed oil instead of diesel, then the gov got wind and put the duty of linseed oil higher than diesel if you buy 6 litres or more. Even though linseed oil is better for the environment and the gov constantly gult trips us about emissions.
Eventually Citroën put a 120hp 2.5 Turbo Diesel engine on the CX, making it the world's fastest diesel with a top speed of 195Km/h. A bit of a dream car when I was a kid. I'd still love to have one of those.
Short but to the point. What a legacy Tony Bastable left us. I've watched many of his videos and most of his observations are pretty much spot on - and rarely lose their relevance with the passing years, witness the comment about lower diesel fuel taxation " until it becomes too popular..."
I used to work for Mercedes-Benz and the W123 and the W124's were the best cars MB ever built, without a doubt. The worst would be the W163, the first generation ML. Anything pre-1995 from MB were great to excellent cars.
Owning both a w124 and 2002 w163 ml270 , I am very impressed with both of them. Perhaps the early w163 were funky,?? but I think overall it is underrated.
Those 5 cylinder Mercedes had a quite nice sound when accelerating though still sluggish comparing to the next generation turbo-diesels. 200 D and 240D were very popular as taxi and many of them reached the mark of 1 million km.
@@wjekat Oh and Mercs don`t rust. Yeah right. Where I come from there are no Mercs older than cca. 10 to 15 years. One exception (almost a neighbour) has a C-class around 20 years old. And another from time to time I see E-class I think arond 25 years old. But that`s it. There are far more Citroëns here on the roads older than say 25-30 or even more than there are Mercs. I`m not saying that older (say 35 or more) Citroëns don`t rust. I`m saying it`s not as bad as you think. + there are other factors that play a huge part in longevity of any car than just rustproofing. ua-cam.com/video/LMh1AlIbbs4/v-deo.html
The Merc, in particular, is lovely, but £7,600 in 1976 is the equivalent of £55-60k today! Interestingly the fuel costs he mentions are fairly similar to today's - 79p/gal is somewhere around £1.20 to £1.40 per litre in today's money, depending on what inflation measure you use.
The irony of ironies... In 1987 it was exactly a TurboDiesel version of the Citroën CX that became the first-ever diesel car to break the 200 km/h speed barrier.
Not quite, the 1987 CX TRD Turbo 2 only did about 195kmh, it was the fastest Diesel for a year untill mercedes came out with the w124 300D Turbo, wich had about 27hp, 9nm, 0.5l and 2 Cylinders more than the CX, had about the same 0-100 time and did about 202kmh.
I live stateside, have a '85 300D, around 235,000 on the clock, straight exhauat, and the turbo turned up just a bit. She's very happy at 80-90 mph all say long and still returns outstanding fuel economy. You just can't kill them.
Charity Charity, a "high speed parcel vehicle"? With that kind of low output on its engine? Well, compared to larger trucks maybe, but I don't think that NA I4 diesel can do more than 100kph (almost 60 mph) if at that. It seems there wasn't a purpose-built vehicle that could do a proper stable ambulance at higher speeds Back then...
The father of a friend of mine had it. Quite scary :) Since I knew him he had 3 CX station wagon and an XM 3.0 V6 station wagon, he was a fan of those boxy Citroens.
I’m officially addicted to these clips, and I’m not even British. I recently bought a rust free W123 300D Turbo. That engine is bullet proof. The biggest challanege with it is the HVAC system
" Wouldn't guess it was diesel. " Not until you got stuck behind it, as it bleached thick black smoke and lung clogging fumes. A fine balanced review. We could do with a return to this style.
That's a commercial van that is also sold under different brands. there is no car in teh Mercedes range built by Renault. vauxhall also build renaults then in your logic. @mipmipmipmipmip
They are only running in Africa as they don't rust there like all cars did in the UK in the seventies. And some African countries don't exactly have a strict annual vehicle inspection. Plus they are excellent at field use whatever you can bodge it and mend it. Although those old Merc engines were great. Jags in the UK also corroded much easier than Mercedes back then. And the electronics were shocking literally. Nice while they were running though.
Not a passenger car which is what i was talking about. Stop trying to think you won this argument. Most commercial vehicles are produced by other companies. Nissan produces a load of commercial vehicles for other brands, including pick up trucks. @mipmipmipmipmip
The five cylinder engine from Mercedes was actually a reaction to the Citroën engine giving a higher output and better top speed than the four cylinder Mercedes. The Ricardo type combustion chamber in the Citroën diesel allowed for higher revs, and the better aerodynamics of the CX meant that the CX was well quicker than the Mercs. So Mercedes, at the proposal of one Ferdinand Piëch whom they consulted (he had temporarily left Porsche), added a cylinder. The tendency of five cylinders to resonate meant that ample equilibration was needed, which also treated the diesel noise somewhat. Looking at the performances, the Merc used an engine with about 30% more capacity to get a top speed that was a few kph higher than the Citroën and gave less mpg. Apart from the difference in roadholding and suspension and the asking price. Game, set and match for the CX - but you wouldn't know it from this clip...
Nah. Cx a rather problematic car. History has not been kind to them. Disappeared from Europe in mid 90's. W123 all in Africa now, working as taxis on unpaved roads.
The 300D engine actually debuted in its predecessor, the 240D 3.0 in 1974, the same year the CX was launched, and a year before the CX diesel launched in 1975. So the CX diesel engine couldn’t have influenced Mercedes in developing the OM617 engine. Also, the CX 2200 diesel has about the same performance as the 240D engine -not the 300D.
I've owned two of the 300D models and they were wonderful, if only a bit vulnerable to rust. The engine is an absolute masterpiece. Just don't chose it as a getaway car for a bank job.
Yes, this is what my Mum should've bought (used of course), not a brand new mini Metro which probably cost more. But she had developed an irrational aversion to used cars due to having been ripped off when my Dad bought a lemon of a used Audi 80 from a work colleague.
That Citroën is very nice, I happen to like big estate cars that look like hearses. They are so practical, so what if it is slow, in the real world it doesn't matter as long as it can do motorway speeds of 70. Me and my family have had a Turbo Diesel mk1 Punto, Skoda Fabia 1.9sdi, a 1990 Renault Trafic with the superb Sofim 8140 diesel, and currently a Land Rover defender 300tdi and I drive a 2004 Kia Sorento 2.5 crdi. Diesels should of been the future, if Bio Diesel was properly invested in and researched we could of all had green sustainable long life cars. And it would of provided massive employment in poor rural countries. Much better than using precious earth element minerals for batteries which are mined by poor kids and poor people in appaling conditions. These batteries have a finite life and then have to be replaced and dumped with dangerous chemicals leaking out. And the electricity used to charge them is not necessarily produced in a green way.
Oh how right Tony was, as soon as decent turbo diesels started to appear in the 90's the sales rocketed and then over time derv ended up being noticeably more expensive than unleaded for quite some time..
We have nothing like this on our screens now. I think it was Wagner who criticised the trend of entertainment over art and today it's entertainment over intelligent straightforward informative programmes. Also Thames TV, I wish you would upload some full programmes for us, maybe at Christmas as a special treat??!!
WOW! Another early appearance I got (over 0400 locally on a Sunday morning with < 100 views). Wonder if this CX Estate was used as a HEARSE in UK or EU since its' lines look suited for that duty and it certainly doesn't require a lot of power output from that large I4 NA Diesel. Unlike the I5-powered 300D, which probably became the de facto taxi cab in Germany.
Citroen’s were fairly popular back in the day, less so as the estate but you would see them. As French cars, they were suitably strange and eccentric in both looks and function.
mipmipmipmipmip, yes! I've figured out that the HUMONGOUS rear cargo area of that CX Estate lent itself well as both a HEARSE and an AMBULANCE. The only other large French estate / wagon I've seen "in the flesh" on the road was the later Peugeot 504 / 505, a favorite of sub-Saharan African transportation, and they also had large cargo areas (they even had a 3rd full row of seats in the back and even a little cargo room left with all seats in use).
If I had a time machine, Jesus this are lovely cars today the euro boxes all the same that CX to die for and 70p a gallon, red is not even that a litre now
Amazing that given the sheer engineering brilliance; coupled with the superb handling of the Mercedes-Benz W123 Series; the presenter seemed more interested in the first aid kit and warning triangle!
You make it sound as if the Cx was just rubbish. Ofcourse it wasn`t. CX was to some degree still like a space ship on wheels. Not just design wise but also technology wise. It was also European Car of the Year 1975 (www.caroftheyear.org/winners/1975/index.php). Also: ua-cam.com/video/LMh1AlIbbs4/v-deo.html
It's incredible how I understand better this "old" english than the one that is spoken nowadays. If I try to see a british car review or a general channel I really don't understand anything. What happened in 40 years?
@peter kincaid He may have a point - even independent TV followed the BBC-favoured RP for many years. Took a while for that to change. I'd imagine most EFL students learn something closer to RP.
CRS1964, I would think that ultimately the Peugeot and Citroen, being on the same company ultimately (probably by the '90s) would get the CX and 504 descendants on the same FWD platform as Peugeot got rid of most of its' RWD cars. Both estates / wagons most likely had the same slot in their brands hierarchy.
Yes I own a Citroen Picasso. Can't fault the HDI engine. Pity about the rubbish electronics on all French cars. My dashboard indications and warning lights are all over the place. After having it all checked out the mechanic said don't worry they are all like that.
I had 1998 Peugeot 306 with the XUD9 engine. Lovely car and drove well until it threw a connecting rod on the motorway. Was only 4 years old, will never own another french car.
@@PaddyWV funny enough I replaced my 306 with a TDI Seat Leon which is the same as the Skoda underneath. Still got the car, now that's a well built engine & car - VAG cars from back then are great.
"You'd be hard pressed to tell that was a diesel engine" he says in one of the most iconic diesel engines cars. The 5 cylinder Mercedes diesel sounds...like a diesel.
G-BALM was deregistered in 92 and exported to the US, one year later it was re-exported to Ireland. Unfortunately they don't have a searchable database, so trace lost. Built 1972. I might be obsessed with planes.
The 300D, the best diesel engine ever made. These mercs could go 1m miles round the clock and still drive like new...but unlike what that guy says, idling as loud as the rest on the diesels of that era, like a tractor basically...
I wish he provided the cost of the Citroen and the power output of the Mercedes, for comparison. He mentioned the cost of the Mercedes and power of the Citroen.
Used to work in a mill where the word DERV was painted on the side of the tank where forklift trucks filled up. Left 20 years ago and not heard it since either!
@@aspirer7268 Well thank goodness you were here to clear that up for everyone, I don't know how we would have managed otherwise. "You're" a true hero.
I miss the days when a Mercedes diesel was synonym with less noise than the competition. Nowadays the 220cdi sounds rougher and noisier than any of its competitors.
A quick look at classic car sites would suggest they're both about the same - a decent one about the GBP10k to GBP12k mark. There are more MBs for sale - not surprising, considering many more of them were sold in the UK, and prices for an outstanding low mileage one go up to around the GBP30k mark.
What annoys me is they rarely gave the price of both cars. Of course most people would rather have the Mercedes. But How many people had an extra 3,500 pounds in their back pocket. The other thing is, what was the mpg of the Mercedes? Nice one Thames, give half the data. They were two very different cars for two very different customers.
@@marshalllucky when it was published on here doesnt mean it was made then.........god...... theres loads of old footage on here.......thats wat makes it so good
The oil companies changed the pumps from gallons to litres to stop people skidding off the road (after seeing the latest prices) every time they passed a petrol station...LOL
CX was to some degree still like it`s predecessor a space ship on wheels. Not just design wise but also technology wise. It was also European Car of the Year 1975 (www.caroftheyear.org/winners/1975/index.php). Also: ua-cam.com/video/LMh1AlIbbs4/v-deo.html
Both lovely machines actually - that cx justy needing a turbo to make it useable. But the Merc - lovely and actually recognisably an MB without seeing the grille. Nice test of a similar generation (79) S class just up on autogefuhl channel here in late aug 2020.
CX was to some degree still like a space ship on wheels. Not just design wise but also technology wise. It was also European Car of the Year 1975 (www.caroftheyear.org/winners/1975/index.php). Also: ua-cam.com/video/LMh1AlIbbs4/v-deo.html
Diesel back then, especially on the continent was dirt cheap. The French especially were used to cheap Diesel which is why for many years they made the best engines and are now demonstrating on the streets now it is taxed highly. You had to change the oil more often though back then like every 3/4 k.
Mercedes is superior because it has a warning triangle, quiet engine and seat belts that move with the seat. :D A shame about its suspension steering brakes, interior space and comfort in comparison to the Citroen....
@@truthseeker8483 Well one of my uncles has C5 Tourer 2.0 Hdi (163 BHP) 2012. He boughted it 2-3 years ago it had 166 000 KM. now it has over 200 000 (not sure about how much over 200). Apart from regular service (Brakes, oil etc.). Works like a charm. ua-cam.com/video/nt07ma2_Y_0/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/4BW-VrdlD9U/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/__iAG4CJ0Hc/v-deo.html
@@tyraela115 Thankyou for the youtube videos I enjoyed them. I drove DS for over 30 years and found them to be the most stable car ever and the most comfortable...they are reliable too if looked after well. MY modern car bumps over every bump...yuck...
I do remember as far back to petrol being 75p a gallon & derv being cheaper, but how right he was about the cost of diesel rising to above that of petrol as diesel cars became more popular. Then in the 90s the government pushed diesels as being eco-friendly, now they're a social pariah. Tossers. It wasn't until the early 90s that diesel started to catch up with petrol performance. I had the pleasure of owning an early 2000s Merc E320CDI that had their 3.2 litre straight-6 turbodiesel, that power plant had more torque than their 5 litre V8 at the time.
Well... If we talk about "technically interesting".... The CX is way more sophisticated and has a way better ride than de Mercedes, it has a more comfortable interior as well.... The only really and undeniable good thing about that Mercedes was the engine, about the rest of the car? It was a classic body with rear wheel drive, as most cars from that time back. They've even shown the CX wagon when they could have shown the stylish normal version, that video was sure MB advertising... And whats more, you can see some tests from back in the day, one car vs the other, things were clear.
Indeed. CX was to some degree still like it`s predecessor a space ship on wheels. Not just design wise but also technology wise. It was also European Car of the Year 1975 (www.caroftheyear.org/winners/1975/index.php). Also: ua-cam.com/video/LMh1AlIbbs4/v-deo.html
@peter kincaid Link please. By the way as I read your commentary I remembered Peugeot Oxia from 1988. When you compare it with Ferrari F40. ua-cam.com/video/c7lBDuqK8xc/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/J1t7KnZ9H0o/v-deo.html
@@danmccarthy4700 Well I work for a german car garage/dealership in Spain (not MB), had worked for Citroen before, and, its funny, I still have 2 customers bringing their CX GTI turbo 2 to me for service, immaculate daily drivers. Engines are rocks (to be honest the base of that engine is craaaaazy old) If we talk about diesels, those were crazy reliable. If we don't see many of those arround is due to many mechanics without proper knowledge working on them... They're simpler than most people think they are, but you have to know what you're doing once working with them, if you don't, you'll ruin them quickly.... And the answer from most mechanics to that has always been, "rubbish car" or unreliable, and that's not true, they just had no idea on how to work with them. What's more, all LHM systems last way longer of any DOT 4 system, as the LHM doesn't absorve humidity and each and every component lasts crazy long time. I was given a citroen Dyane that had been in a garage for 25 years... It was one of the last ones, with LHM disc brakes. Can you believe the brakes worked perfectly? Of course I changed everything, but that's the point. There was crazy amount of the best engineering behind those CX, what's more... Mercedes Benz copied many of the CX technology for the 450 SEL 6.9 in 1975 and 1976.
@peter kincaid He favoured his Mini Cooper, apparently. Giorgio Armani also famously used one to get to and from work in Milan as well. Never argue with an Italian on matters of style and driveability!
All that talking up of the Mercedes and he didn't even take it for a drive. Those were, and remain superbly engineered machines. Even in this century, many still survive and are holding their own.
The Mercedes 5 cylinder diesel was quieter, smoother, and less gruffer than the underpowered 66bhp diesel Citroën CX. I'd have the Mercedes diesel anyday.
Proper ITV Top Gear program ALL about new cars, not watching 3 idiots smashing up towed caravans or riding motorcycles between HCMC and Hanoi, that’s when BBC lost all control of the real intent of motoring programs to the viewing public. ITV, and latterly C5 has always shown the way on motoring programs....
i thought the 5 cyl Mercs where all 2500cc ? 3000cc 6 cyl ? also i'm sure Citroen never made a 2.2 diesel only later in HDi ? its a 2500cc Diesel and then they turbo'd the same engine ?
No that was later on. The earlier 2400cc diesels were 4-pot & the 3 litre ones 5-pot. Later on the 3 litre & 3.2 litre of the 90s & early 2000s were straight sixes as you say.
Nah in the W123 the 3.0 was a 5 pot it was the W124 where it was a 6. I think he is wrong on the Citroen engine size but he seemed to be just a presenter and not an expert.
No the very first CX Diesel was a 2175 cc 66HP 'CX 2200D' and lasted only 2 years derived from the 2175 petrol engine, 90.5bore x85mm stroke, then appeared the 2500 cc (93x92) CX 2500 in 1978 75 HP
A lot of TV camera crews used the Citroen to film the Horse Races as they had to travel on the grass or rough track, next to the race course. The Citroen CX was the only car that had a smooth enough ride to achieve the footage.
CX was a brilliant car.
Spectacularly ugly though
That Mercedes 300D is still running and will continue to run until the last barrel of diesel is pumped
I think the Citroen was the better car despite the Mercedes’ reliability.
just listen to the sound of the door closing in the Merc and compare it to the Citroen
There'll probably be synthetic diesel one day
@@malo4200 Mercedes always uses high strength steel, so that explains
why the door sounds the way it does. it's a Mercedes thing after all,
but in order to get high strength steel, it's going to cost you money.
but that's why people think the Germans are the best, because they use
the most expensive steel, but that's not the case.
Mercedes that was just their thing, see people think GM doesn't know
anything about quality, or that Lexus is the best at luxury,
but long before Lexus was ever a thing, Cadillac was the pinnacle of
quality, atleast at one time. but the sound of a door closing,
has nothing to do with quality, it's because the door is heavy.
now to there defense, having high strength steel can help with auto
accidents, but that's not necessarily always the case.
cars of the 90's for example, are actually more durable despite the fact
it's sheet metal. but the way they use it, during crash testing tests,
you'll notice the car has some resistance, that's because sheet metal
is designed to flex and bend. hard body steel has no give or resistance,
so if another steel body hit the car, it has no way of resisting.
so as reliable as old Mercedes was, you would not want to get in a
accident in it.
Love Tony’s slightly pissed off presentation style.
In those days there was still 3 1/2 hours until opening time
You’d be pissed off driving a diesel hearse
@@therealbettyswollocks LOL...It is big enough to fit a coffin!
Rocking the controlled fury until he spazzes out into full Partridge 😎
citroen streaks ahead !!!!
P.S Cheaper until it becomes too popular: prophetic words.
Just what I thought
It's like EV's today. With few, they are subsidized and are charged with electricity taxed only by VAT.
But in EU, most significant income of most governments are fuel taxes (because everyone has to move). Once EV's will have any significant marketshare (I'm not talking about Netherlands nutjobs with poisoned land, pretending to save planet with couple of EV's or extremly rich per capita Norway, again ruining environment far more than any other country per capita), I'm pretty sure EV's charging will be taxed alot.
Yes I was thinking the same thing.
I was about to post the same thing! Prophetic indeed!
It's really annoying how folk started using linseed oil instead of diesel, then the gov got wind and put the duty of linseed oil higher than diesel if you buy 6 litres or more. Even though linseed oil is better for the environment and the gov constantly gult trips us about emissions.
Eventually Citroën put a 120hp 2.5 Turbo Diesel engine on the CX, making it the world's fastest diesel with a top speed of 195Km/h. A bit of a dream car when I was a kid. I'd still love to have one of those.
Short but to the point. What a legacy Tony Bastable left us. I've watched many of his videos and most of his observations are pretty much spot on - and rarely lose their relevance with the passing years, witness the comment about lower diesel fuel taxation " until it becomes too popular..."
Tony Bastible was a producers dream. A true professional. Chances are that Merc is still running, having clocked half a million miles.
Tony was spot on with the cost of Diesel fuel
Indeed, a very astute observation. He was spot on.
Still cheaper in.most of Europe though
There's a crazy amount of accurate predictions in these episodes haha
I used to work for Mercedes-Benz and the W123 and the W124's were the best cars MB ever built, without a doubt. The worst would be the W163, the first generation ML. Anything pre-1995 from MB were great to excellent cars.
My Dad owned the W124 Wagon! 1995 -He put over 380K Miles! Built Like a Tank..So many memories
My father had a W126 500SEL 1984. Man was it nice to drive. The MB and BMW had crappy front seats.
Owning both a w124 and 2002 w163 ml270 , I am very impressed with both of them. Perhaps the early w163 were funky,?? but I think overall it is underrated.
What about the w116s?
I wishd id had soma day 300d and 240d
Those 5 cylinder Mercedes had a quite nice sound when accelerating though still sluggish comparing to the next generation turbo-diesels. 200 D and 240D were very popular as taxi and many of them reached the mark of 1 million km.
And Mercedes Benz sold over a million w123
they were one of the first multi fuel cars, they would run on petrol or diesel no problem :-)
@@marshalllucky or leftover chips frying oil
@@wjekat or kentuck fired chicken fat for real power :-O
The motor on that Merc was legendary, it simply lasts forever...
So does the Citroëns
@@tyraela115 unfortunately the body rusts, so there aren‘t any examples on the road. Plenty of Mercs around
@@wjekat Oh and Mercs don`t rust. Yeah right.
Where I come from there are no Mercs older than cca. 10 to 15 years. One exception (almost a neighbour) has a C-class around 20 years old. And another from time to time I see E-class I think arond 25 years old. But that`s it.
There are far more Citroëns here on the roads older than say 25-30 or even more than there are Mercs.
I`m not saying that older (say 35 or more) Citroëns don`t rust. I`m saying it`s not as bad as you think. + there are other factors that play a huge part in longevity of any car than just rustproofing.
ua-cam.com/video/LMh1AlIbbs4/v-deo.html
The Merc, in particular, is lovely, but £7,600 in 1976 is the equivalent of £55-60k today!
Interestingly the fuel costs he mentions are fairly similar to today's - 79p/gal is somewhere around £1.20 to £1.40 per litre in today's money, depending on what inflation measure you use.
Wasn’t that due to the oil crisis?
The Citroen CX is a gorgeous piece of automotive design imo. I'd be all over one in a heartbeat.
very nice, I'd take the CX without hesitation! I hated the way he put the CX handbrake on!
And in 2018 one can still see these 300d (and petrol) cars driving around. What a classic.
The irony of ironies... In 1987 it was exactly a TurboDiesel version of the Citroën CX that became the first-ever diesel car to break the 200 km/h speed barrier.
Not quite, the 1987 CX TRD Turbo 2 only did about 195kmh, it was the fastest Diesel for a year untill mercedes came out with the w124 300D Turbo, wich had about 27hp, 9nm, 0.5l and 2 Cylinders more than the CX, had about the same 0-100 time and did about 202kmh.
@@aaaabababa Bah.
@@mantabond what?
@@aaaabababa Bah: how a bourgeois would say 'damn'.
Your just jealous cause the first one was not a british rubbish.
I still see those 300D running around town. Built like tanks. Unlike the newer cookie cutter lot from MB like the new CLS Coupe which is problematic
They're all problematic these days. A family friend bought a new C-Class and it's been in the shop a lot.
I live stateside, have a '85 300D, around 235,000 on the clock, straight exhauat, and the turbo turned up just a bit. She's very happy at 80-90 mph all say long and still returns outstanding fuel economy. You just can't kill them.
I wonder if anyone ordered the Citroen in black and wondered why people were always looking for a coffin inside?
Agreed - was just going to comment that it looks like a hearse!
In france they were white for ambulances and yellow for high speed parcel vehicles too
lol
Charity Charity, a "high speed parcel vehicle"? With that kind of low output on its engine? Well, compared to larger trucks maybe, but I don't think that NA I4 diesel can do more than 100kph (almost 60 mph) if at that. It seems there wasn't a purpose-built vehicle that could do a proper stable ambulance at higher speeds Back then...
The father of a friend of mine had it. Quite scary :) Since I knew him he had 3 CX station wagon and an XM 3.0 V6 station wagon, he was a fan of those boxy Citroens.
The CX and W123 in one short clip - rich content indeed. And the latter still the true classic MB look imo.
Proper door closing.
Mercedes were well ahead of the game back then
*was ;)
Plural entity... therefore *were in British English :;@@paulanderson79
S.a. the Police were ahead... The BCC have, or were... etc.
@@paulanderson79 *were!
They always are :-)
@Jake Haynes ..."Renault based shit "...you say.
www.reliabilityindex.com/news/52/States%20of%20Repair%20%e2%80%93%20Japanese%20and%20French%20brands%20top%20international%20league%20table%20of%20car%20reliability
I’m officially addicted to these clips, and I’m not even British. I recently bought a rust free W123 300D Turbo. That engine is bullet proof. The biggest challanege with it is the HVAC system
Mercedes-Benz is heavily using Renault diesel (and petrol) engines in last couple of years. That CX is a legendary vehicle.
" Wouldn't guess it was diesel. "
Not until you got stuck behind it, as it bleached thick black smoke and lung clogging fumes.
A fine balanced review. We could do with a return to this style.
The Mercedes 300D was £7600, expensive considering the XJ6 4.2 was a £1000 cheaper. The new Rover SD1 (petrol ) was only £4750
Renault don't build Mercedes. @mipmipmipmipmip
My 1977 300D still takes me to work and home every day with over 500,000km....
That's a commercial van that is also sold under different brands. there is no car in teh Mercedes range built by Renault. vauxhall also build renaults then in your logic. @mipmipmipmipmip
They are only running in Africa as they don't rust there like all cars did in the UK in the seventies. And some African countries don't exactly have a strict annual vehicle inspection. Plus they are excellent at field use whatever you can bodge it and mend it. Although those old Merc engines were great. Jags in the UK also corroded much easier than Mercedes back then. And the electronics were shocking literally. Nice while they were running though.
Not a passenger car which is what i was talking about. Stop trying to think you won this argument. Most commercial vehicles are produced by other companies. Nissan produces a load of commercial vehicles for other brands, including pick up trucks. @mipmipmipmipmip
The five cylinder engine from Mercedes was actually a reaction to the Citroën engine giving a higher output and better top speed than the four cylinder Mercedes. The Ricardo type combustion chamber in the Citroën diesel allowed for higher revs, and the better aerodynamics of the CX meant that the CX was well quicker than the Mercs. So Mercedes, at the proposal of one Ferdinand Piëch whom they consulted (he had temporarily left Porsche), added a cylinder. The tendency of five cylinders to resonate meant that ample equilibration was needed, which also treated the diesel noise somewhat.
Looking at the performances, the Merc used an engine with about 30% more capacity to get a top speed that was a few kph higher than the Citroën and gave less mpg. Apart from the difference in roadholding and suspension and the asking price. Game, set and match for the CX - but you wouldn't know it from this clip...
Nah. Cx a rather problematic car. History has not been kind to them. Disappeared from Europe in mid 90's. W123 all in Africa now, working as taxis on unpaved roads.
The 300D engine actually debuted in its predecessor, the 240D 3.0 in 1974, the same year the CX was launched, and a year before the CX diesel launched in 1975. So the CX diesel engine couldn’t have influenced Mercedes in developing the OM617 engine. Also, the CX 2200 diesel has about the same performance as the 240D engine -not the 300D.
What a super video - a glimpse into the recent past. Thanks for posting.
I've owned two of the 300D models and they were wonderful, if only a bit vulnerable to rust. The engine is an absolute masterpiece. Just don't chose it as a getaway car for a bank job.
70's Mercedes-Benz were some classic (and classy!) cars!
Yes, this is what my Mum should've bought (used of course), not a brand new mini Metro which probably cost more. But she had developed an irrational aversion to used cars due to having been ripped off when my Dad bought a lemon of a used Audi 80 from a work colleague.
So were Citroëns!
Proper journalism
First Car I Ever Drove Was That W123 Merc, It Was Soo Brilliant To Drive, It Was Automatic Ofcorse, But Still, So Much Fun It Was
That Citroën is very nice, I happen to like big estate cars that look like hearses. They are so practical, so what if it is slow, in the real world it doesn't matter as long as it can do motorway speeds of 70.
Me and my family have had a Turbo Diesel mk1 Punto, Skoda Fabia 1.9sdi, a 1990 Renault Trafic with the superb Sofim 8140 diesel, and currently a Land Rover defender 300tdi and I drive a 2004 Kia Sorento 2.5 crdi.
Diesels should of been the future, if Bio Diesel was properly invested in and researched we could of all had green sustainable long life cars. And it would of provided massive employment in poor rural countries.
Much better than using precious earth element minerals for batteries which are mined by poor kids and poor people in appaling conditions.
These batteries have a finite life and then have to be replaced and dumped with dangerous chemicals leaking out. And the electricity used to charge them is not necessarily produced in a green way.
I have had 2 CX . CX diesel and CX turbo2 diesel.
Oh how right Tony was, as soon as decent turbo diesels started to appear in the 90's the sales rocketed and then over time derv ended up being noticeably more expensive than unleaded for quite some time..
Typicial, the sound of how the doors and boot open and close is exactly like my W201.
We have nothing like this on our screens now. I think it was Wagner who criticised the trend of entertainment over art and today it's entertainment over intelligent straightforward informative programmes. Also Thames TV, I wish you would upload some full programmes for us, maybe at Christmas as a special treat??!!
WOW! Another early appearance I got (over 0400 locally on a Sunday morning with < 100 views). Wonder if this CX Estate was used as a HEARSE in UK or EU since its' lines look suited for that duty and it certainly doesn't require a lot of power output from that large I4 NA Diesel. Unlike the I5-powered 300D, which probably became the de facto taxi cab in Germany.
Cool Car's :)
@mipmipmipmipmip
Citroen’s were fairly popular back in the day, less so as the estate but you would see them. As French cars, they were suitably strange and eccentric in both looks and function.
mipmipmipmipmip, yes! I've figured out that the HUMONGOUS rear cargo area of that CX Estate lent itself well as both a HEARSE and an AMBULANCE. The only other large French estate / wagon I've seen "in the flesh" on the road was the later Peugeot 504 / 505, a favorite of sub-Saharan African transportation, and they also had large cargo areas (they even had a 3rd full row of seats in the back and even a little cargo room left with all seats in use).
If I had a time machine, Jesus this are lovely cars today the euro boxes all the same that CX to die for and 70p a gallon, red is not even that a litre now
70p in 1976 equates to about £5.59 in todays money so the difference isn't much.
Amazing that given the sheer engineering brilliance; coupled with the superb handling of the Mercedes-Benz W123 Series; the presenter seemed more interested in the first aid kit and warning triangle!
You make it sound as if the Cx was just rubbish. Ofcourse it wasn`t.
CX was to some degree still like a space ship on wheels. Not just design wise but also technology wise. It was also European Car of the Year 1975 (www.caroftheyear.org/winners/1975/index.php).
Also: ua-cam.com/video/LMh1AlIbbs4/v-deo.html
Man these cars must have looked like something from space considering British designs at the time. Austin allegro, princess, marina etc
It's incredible how I understand better this "old" english than the one that is spoken nowadays. If I try to see a british car review or a general channel I really don't understand anything. What happened in 40 years?
@peter kincaid He may have a point - even independent TV followed the BBC-favoured RP for many years. Took a while for that to change. I'd imagine most EFL students learn something closer to RP.
My favourite cars in this video are the Citroen CX Diesel and the Mercedes-Benz W123 300D.
The CX came in an 8 seat version - early mpv
Figure it had to have a 3rd row option just like the Peugeot 504 / 505 (maybe the CX went to the same platform later on)...
CRS1964, I would think that ultimately the Peugeot and Citroen, being on the same company ultimately (probably by the '90s) would get the CX and 504 descendants on the same FWD platform as Peugeot got rid of most of its' RWD cars. Both estates / wagons most likely had the same slot in their brands hierarchy.
@@syxepop Familiale designation - same as its predecessor the DS.
French know how to make diesel engine. I used to have A 1979 Peugeot 504 GLD with over 400 K miles on original engine.
Yes I own a Citroen Picasso. Can't fault the HDI engine. Pity about the rubbish electronics on all French cars. My dashboard indications and warning lights are all over the place. After having it all checked out the mechanic said don't worry they are all like that.
They all know how to make them :D
I had 1998 Peugeot 306 with the XUD9 engine. Lovely car and drove well until it threw a connecting rod on the motorway. Was only 4 years old, will never own another french car.
@@PaddyWV funny enough I replaced my 306 with a TDI Seat Leon which is the same as the Skoda underneath. Still got the car, now that's a well built engine & car - VAG cars from back then are great.
@@mattconnelly3867 The funny thing is that electronics came from BOSCH (Germany) ...
That's not quite fair... The CX is the 2200 D model and the Mercedes is the 300D. They should have compared it with the 220D Mercedes.
"You'd be hard pressed to tell that was a diesel engine" he says in one of the most iconic diesel engines cars. The 5 cylinder Mercedes diesel sounds...like a diesel.
G-BALM was deregistered in 92 and exported to the US, one year later it was re-exported to Ireland. Unfortunately they don't have a searchable database, so trace lost. Built 1972. I might be obsessed with planes.
Everybody needs a hobby.
The 300D, the best diesel engine ever made. These mercs could go 1m miles round the clock and still drive like new...but unlike what that guy says, idling as loud as the rest on the diesels of that era, like a tractor basically...
Pre Top Gear era 😎
Wow! Beautiful motors.
Tony was so right, diesel was cheaper until it got too popular. Bless him 👍
These videos are so nice.
I wish he provided the cost of the Citroen and the power output of the Mercedes, for comparison. He mentioned the cost of the Mercedes and power of the Citroen.
Cheaper one suspects, until it becomes more popular. That was a very accurate prediction.
Amazing difference in sound of the Merc compared to the Citroen. Didnt think the difference would be so big.
Have,nt heard the word derv for many a year.
Used to work in a mill where the word DERV was painted on the side of the tank where forklift trucks filled up. Left 20 years ago and not heard it since either!
@@aspirer7268 Well thank goodness you were here to clear that up for everyone, I don't know how we would have managed otherwise. "You're" a true hero.
I saw it on the wall of the mocked up Asda on Series 1 of Dale's Supermarket Sweep (1993) on Challenge in 2012 :-P We sell petrol and DERV!
@@aspirer7268 Aaah dear, you're too sharp for me, I won't try to keep up :) But now, be honest, you had to google 'DERV' didn't you?
@@aspirer7268 Well, fair play sir - you take the "knowing what DERV means" and the "Being nearly 60" award this time! :)
I miss the days when a Mercedes diesel was synonym with less noise than the competition. Nowadays the 220cdi sounds rougher and noisier than any of its competitors.
both of these car would be worth a fortune today
A quick look at classic car sites would suggest they're both about the same - a decent one about the GBP10k to GBP12k mark. There are more MBs for sale - not surprising, considering many more of them were sold in the UK, and prices for an outstanding low mileage one go up to around the GBP30k mark.
What annoys me is they rarely gave the price of both cars. Of course most people would rather have the Mercedes. But How many people had an extra 3,500 pounds in their back pocket. The other thing is, what was the mpg of the Mercedes? Nice one Thames, give half the data. They were two very different cars for two very different customers.
Still looks a clean and timeless design (this message written 2020).
In an alternate universe, the people at Rover said, "Holy smokes we need to make the SD1 as good as, if not better than that!"
'Adequate Acceleration'. I don't think Bastable would have got a job in a car showroom - far too honest!
I dont think this thames car show will catch on , it feels a bit dated and they insist on testing ancient cars, how about the modern stuff ?
its old footage from late 70's early 80's tv show you dillweed
Thames published Nov `18 , not much of a rival for the grand tour , you cannot even buy these old cars anymore :-(
@@marshalllucky when it was published on here doesnt mean it was made then.........god......
theres loads of old footage on here.......thats wat makes it so good
anyway your just trolling coz your channel has Saville n sex pistols on it.............you know damn well its old shit
It really sucks the fun out of it when you have to explain levity, doesn't it? Good stuff.
71 pence a gallon!!! I remember late 1980's when a gallon around £1.50. I'm now paying £1.46 per LITRE for diesel.
The oil companies changed the pumps from gallons to litres to stop people skidding off the road (after seeing the latest prices) every time they passed a petrol station...LOL
66 bhp? My first car had more than that and it was very lightweight (Fiat Uno 70S 1.3L). I love the CX saloon though (pre-facelift).
CX was to some degree still like it`s predecessor a space ship on wheels. Not just design wise but also technology wise. It was also European Car of the Year 1975 (www.caroftheyear.org/winners/1975/index.php).
Also: ua-cam.com/video/LMh1AlIbbs4/v-deo.html
@@tyraela115 Yeah, I'm actually a big CX fan. I know the engines weren't great but 66 bhp on this estate is abysmal.
how comes we had to watch so much top gear shit when this was on back in the day and i never saw it. i need in my life now a mercedes benz
The Citroën CX is with Distance the superior Car in Compare with all Cars in his time. ❤
Both lovely machines actually - that cx justy needing a turbo to make it useable. But the Merc - lovely and actually recognisably an MB without seeing the grille. Nice test of a similar generation (79) S class just up on autogefuhl channel here in late aug 2020.
CX was to some degree still like a space ship on wheels. Not just design wise but also technology wise. It was also European Car of the Year 1975 (www.caroftheyear.org/winners/1975/index.php).
Also: ua-cam.com/video/LMh1AlIbbs4/v-deo.html
Diesel back then, especially on the continent was dirt cheap. The French especially were used to cheap Diesel which is why for many years they made the best engines and are now demonstrating on the streets now it is taxed highly. You had to change the oil more often though back then like every 3/4 k.
A Rover SD1 was almost half the price of that 300D. The Merc would last 300.000 miles while the Rover struggled to get 100.000 miles though.
Cheers
Mercedes is superior because it has a warning triangle, quiet engine and seat belts that move with the seat. :D A shame about its suspension steering brakes, interior space and comfort in comparison to the Citroen....
Indeed.
ua-cam.com/video/LMh1AlIbbs4/v-deo.html
@@tyraela115 CX Turbo would be a great car to own..all cars should have sophisticated suspension in 2020...not hard to do with modern tech
@@truthseeker8483 Well one of my uncles has C5 Tourer 2.0 Hdi (163 BHP) 2012. He boughted it 2-3 years ago it had 166 000 KM. now it has over 200 000 (not sure about how much over 200). Apart from regular service (Brakes, oil etc.). Works like a charm.
ua-cam.com/video/nt07ma2_Y_0/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/4BW-VrdlD9U/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/__iAG4CJ0Hc/v-deo.html
@@tyraela115 Thankyou for the youtube videos I enjoyed them. I drove DS for over 30 years and found them to be the most stable car ever and the most comfortable...they are reliable too if looked after well. MY modern car bumps over every bump...yuck...
I do remember as far back to petrol being 75p a gallon & derv being cheaper, but how right he was about the cost of diesel rising to above that of petrol as diesel cars became more popular. Then in the 90s the government pushed diesels as being eco-friendly, now they're a social pariah. Tossers. It wasn't until the early 90s that diesel started to catch up with petrol performance. I had the pleasure of owning an early 2000s Merc E320CDI that had their 3.2 litre straight-6 turbodiesel, that power plant had more torque than their 5 litre V8 at the time.
7600 pounds was A LOT of money in 76... Average house was 12,700 pounds and average salary 3600 pounds.
That's Mr. Khan's car from Citizen Khan!
He almost seemed happy in this video
So that's around 15p per litre, how times change.
That Citroen reminds me of the ghost busters car
I could've sworn that was Alan Partridge.
Holy shit I can't believe The Beatles reviewed diesel cars. Crazy world
great car the 300d, only sold mine because the kids called it dad's Bombay taxi
Cheaper....until it becomes TOO popular!
Ahead of his time!
Healthy cynicism has probably existed since the dawn of civilization, and thankfully it never died. :)
أيام راحت و لن ترجع
Diesel was indeed the future - - 50 years ago....
Back when Merc used to make fantastic cars.
Well... If we talk about "technically interesting".... The CX is way more sophisticated and has a way better ride than de Mercedes, it has a more comfortable interior as well.... The only really and undeniable good thing about that Mercedes was the engine, about the rest of the car? It was a classic body with rear wheel drive, as most cars from that time back. They've even shown the CX wagon when they could have shown the stylish normal version, that video was sure MB advertising... And whats more, you can see some tests from back in the day, one car vs the other, things were clear.
Question: Which of those 2 cars is more likely to still be on the road today?
Indeed. CX was to some degree still like it`s predecessor a space ship on wheels. Not just design wise but also technology wise. It was also European Car of the Year 1975 (www.caroftheyear.org/winners/1975/index.php).
Also: ua-cam.com/video/LMh1AlIbbs4/v-deo.html
@peter kincaid Link please.
By the way as I read your commentary I remembered Peugeot Oxia from 1988. When you compare it with Ferrari F40.
ua-cam.com/video/c7lBDuqK8xc/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/J1t7KnZ9H0o/v-deo.html
@@danmccarthy4700 Well I work for a german car garage/dealership in Spain (not MB), had worked for Citroen before, and, its funny, I still have 2 customers bringing their CX GTI turbo 2 to me for service, immaculate daily drivers. Engines are rocks (to be honest the base of that engine is craaaaazy old) If we talk about diesels, those were crazy reliable. If we don't see many of those arround is due to many mechanics without proper knowledge working on them... They're simpler than most people think they are, but you have to know what you're doing once working with them, if you don't, you'll ruin them quickly.... And the answer from most mechanics to that has always been, "rubbish car" or unreliable, and that's not true, they just had no idea on how to work with them. What's more, all LHM systems last way longer of any DOT 4 system, as the LHM doesn't absorve humidity and each and every component lasts crazy long time. I was given a citroen Dyane that had been in a garage for 25 years... It was one of the last ones, with LHM disc brakes. Can you believe the brakes worked perfectly? Of course I changed everything, but that's the point. There was crazy amount of the best engineering behind those CX, what's more... Mercedes Benz copied many of the CX technology for the 450 SEL 6.9 in 1975 and 1976.
@peter kincaid He favoured his Mini Cooper, apparently. Giorgio Armani also famously used one to get to and from work in Milan as well. Never argue with an Italian on matters of style and driveability!
God I miss the 70sss
Just over 70p a gallon Wow!
exaclty what i was thinking amigo!! WOW!
You boys never heard of inflation then? If you adjust 70p for inflation, it roughly works out as 4.79gbp. Now THAT was a fucking rip off.
All that talking up of the Mercedes and he didn't even take it for a drive. Those were, and remain superbly engineered machines. Even in this century, many still survive and are holding their own.
Citroën and its legendary ability to design monstrous cars!
The Mercedes 5 cylinder diesel was quieter, smoother, and less gruffer than the underpowered 66bhp diesel Citroën CX.
I'd have the Mercedes diesel anyday.
The Mercedes presented in veryyellow
Tony showing his characteristic disdain for the blasted continentals producing better cars than British Leyland.
Proper ITV Top Gear program ALL about new cars, not watching 3 idiots smashing up towed caravans or riding motorcycles between HCMC and Hanoi, that’s when BBC lost all control of the real intent of motoring programs to the viewing public. ITV, and latterly C5 has always shown the way on motoring programs....
The Benz W123 300D had a whopping 79bhp.
66 BHp! I had a Fiesta with 79 and it was slow.
The Merc can still be seen around today as for the Citroen ~RIP
fidel catsro I’ve seen quite a few CX’s on the road actually
I think that's Mr Khan's car .. the yellow Mercedes
i thought the 5 cyl Mercs where all 2500cc ? 3000cc 6 cyl ?
also i'm sure Citroen never made a 2.2 diesel only later in HDi ? its a 2500cc Diesel and then they turbo'd the same engine ?
No that was later on. The earlier 2400cc diesels were 4-pot & the 3 litre ones 5-pot. Later on the 3 litre & 3.2 litre of the 90s & early 2000s were straight sixes as you say.
Nah in the W123 the 3.0 was a 5 pot it was the W124 where it was a 6. I think he is wrong on the Citroen engine size but he seemed to be just a presenter and not an expert.
No the very first CX Diesel was a 2175 cc 66HP 'CX 2200D' and lasted only 2 years derived from the 2175 petrol engine, 90.5bore x85mm stroke, then appeared the 2500 cc (93x92) CX 2500 in 1978 75 HP
@@jybe75013 ok....didnt know that, always thought the 2.2 was a petrol
i had a 1988 merc and i'm sure it said 250d or something on the boot lid........it was defo a 5 cyl ?
Cool :)
71 pence a gallon for diesel now at £1.55 a litre or 1.75 pints