This was so good! Ever pastor, seminary student, and Christian should watch this and part 1 as we need to be challenged with these questions that shake our paradigm. If what we believe is true, we shouldnt mind it being challenged. Only if our belief is unstable or a false belief should we be afraid of shedding light onto it and sadly it seems some are afraid of even wrestling with those questions which reveals their idols and their own insecurities.
Mike, you need to go through 1 Cor 15 next with Gary and show all of the verb tense issues and the very arbitrary choices when and when not to recognize the definite article by the translators. Also, Paul's use of the singular 'body'.
I think Gary is doing something with Kim on that, but I would enjoy participating and doing more shows with Gary on whatever subjects he would like to cover. I enjoy the chemistry with him.
It's called follow the leader...sadly some people have so much to lose, that they're willing to continue to stick with the same losing game plan. Do you know of a wealthy Full Preterist theologian? Even though they're some of the most honest working people trying to promote the Gospel of Christ's Victory..." death is defeated" James Brown was known as the hardest-working man in show business. Well, guys like Don Preston, Mike Sullivan, Gary DeMar, and many others are the hardest-working men for Christ. Thirty years of watching this revolution gives me some insight :)
Great discission here guys! Can you explain how Christians reading Paul and Matthew about the day of the Lord failed to grasp it's meaning even after they witnessed the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple? Why did so many Jewish Christians gravitate to premillennialism and why did this idea become so popular among the early Church fathers?
I'm not sure we can really say what you just said. There was quite a gap between 70AD and the first premill writings in the 2nd century AD. The 'church fathers', which they really weren't, were not really trained by the apostles. Clement may have known Paul, and perhaps Peter. We have claims by later writers about these supposed fathers but we're missing much to really connect them with the apostles. There's a lot of 'tradition' but a lack of evidence. 90%+ of post 70Ad Christian writings in Greek and Latin have yet to be translated. A lot of clarity will be coming out as these works are translated.
1). We haven't even translated SO many very early church documents. 2). Many other documents are just waiting to be discovered. 3). Apostasy and a Hellenization process moved Christians away from the common Jewish apocalyptic language to a hyper-literal Pharisaic hermeneutic like Premillennialism which was condemned by the Church as "heretical" and on par with "Jewish myths and dreams" (at least they got that right). John Lightfoot, John Owen, John Brown, John Gill and others slowly got the Church back to letting the Bible interpret itself and re-discovering the Biblical context the OT and NT was written in. But 4). even if we get those early church admissions, the heart of the hyper-literalists would just move the goalposts - "well, the heresy of hyper-preterism was earlier in the church than we thought." Jesus said the Church would be able to look back on Him and the Kingdom coming in power in the events of AD 70 and know that it "already happened" (Mark 8:38--9:1). Scripture is good enough for me.
This is the mystery right? The same question could be asked about theologians alive today who have access to more information than they could ever study. Is it possible that we are all blinded by what we want to be true and fail to recognize what the book is saying?
Matthew 16:28 says, "Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.” BUT the very next verse in Matthew 17:1 says, "Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves; 2 and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light. 3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him." Jesus shows the three disciples His Kingly Glory in the Transfiguration. Revelation 13:5 says, "The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. 7 It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over EVERY tribe, people, language and nation. 8 ALL INHABITANTS of the earth will worship the beast-all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life." Are you telling me people in Africa and South America worshipped the anti-christ in the first century? There is ABSOLUTELY no historical evidence whatsoever to support that. This did NOT happen in the first century.
I think that it is a mistake to call His coming in judgment in 70 AD The 2nd Coming of which most Christians would consider the 2nd Coming of Christ at the End of time or at the end of the effect of the Adamic age.
To Mike-qt7jp: Are you suggesting that the transfiguration which happened six days after Jesus said some standing there would still be alive to see him coming in his kingdom is the event Jesus referred to? First of all, this would mean that Jesus' kingdom came in power at that moment which does not agree with the view most futurists hold that the kingdom hasn't even come yet. Secondly, Jesus was talking to a rather big crowd, not only his disciples (Mark 8:34) and he said SOME of them would still be alive which means that if only SOME of them would still be alive MOST of them wouldn't. How could that possibly apply to an event that happened six days later? It doesn't, but it perfectly fits with an event that would take place 40 years later. I don't know how you could possibly rationally conclude that the transfiguration which was a foreshadow of the parousia, i.e. the end of the old covenant (Moses and Elijah disappear) and the coming into effect of the new covenant (Jesus alone) would have been the coming of the Son of Men in His kingdom of which Jesus was talking about.
Sorry folks no pretrib rapture Jn.6,39,40,44,54 Jesus said All on the last day and Paul said at the last trumpet Rev 11,15 Matt 24,29,30,31 1cor 15 50,51,52 1Thess 4,13-17 Rev 10,6,7 time no more. Your in tribulation now at the first four trumpets getting ready to take out one third of the earth and sea and a multitude of Christians no man can number Rev 7,9,14 by fire, in a one day event probably a nuclear war then the world goes into the woes or last three trumpets 5,6,7 and trumpet six is the seven years of Daniel, I've seen the first five seals and heard the first trumpet September 29,08 the day the stock market crashed 777 and before the hail and fire falls God seals the 144000 then the first four trumpets. Thats were a5 now, repent from false doctrine of a pretrib rapture Jn.6,39,40,44,54 Jesus said All on the last day.
I have come to understanding. This by listening to you both its awesome Awesome and mind blowing thkq so much-needed for me
Once you see it, you can’t unsee it.
This was so good! Ever pastor, seminary student, and Christian should watch this and part 1 as we need to be challenged with these questions that shake our paradigm. If what we believe is true, we shouldnt mind it being challenged. Only if our belief is unstable or a false belief should we be afraid of shedding light onto it and sadly it seems some are afraid of even wrestling with those questions which reveals their idols and their own insecurities.
Really enjoy this duo. Great job guys
Mike, you need to go through 1 Cor 15 next with Gary and show all of the verb tense issues and the very arbitrary choices when and when not to recognize the definite article by the translators. Also, Paul's use of the singular 'body'.
I think Gary is doing something with Kim on that, but I would enjoy participating and doing more shows with Gary on whatever subjects he would like to cover. I enjoy the chemistry with him.
@michaelsullivan6868 he's soooo close....!
Been looking forward to seeing this one.. appreciate what y’all are doing.
It's called follow the leader...sadly some people have so much to lose, that they're willing to continue to stick with the same losing game plan. Do you know of a wealthy Full Preterist theologian? Even though they're some of the most honest working people trying to promote the Gospel of Christ's Victory..." death is defeated" James Brown was known as the hardest-working man in show business. Well, guys like Don Preston, Mike Sullivan, Gary DeMar, and many others are the hardest-working men for Christ. Thirty years of watching this revolution gives me some insight :)
That is a great compliment - thanks brother!
And Tim Martin
Excellent excellent excellent thank you Jesus
Awesome Awesome Awesome,,,thkq thkq thkq,,,grace and peace to you
Great study together. Thank You
EXCELENT!
Thanks for dotting the i's and crossing the t's for us; we're gonna get an A+ on the test. 🙂
1 John 4:10,11
If I close my eyes when Gary speaks I hear Matt Walsh everytime.
lol. New movie, What is a preterist?
Awesome work! Thanks.
great discusstion
Great discission here guys! Can you explain how Christians reading Paul and Matthew about the day of the Lord failed to grasp it's meaning even after they witnessed the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple? Why did so many Jewish Christians gravitate to premillennialism and why did this idea become so popular among the early Church fathers?
I'm not sure we can really say what you just said. There was quite a gap between 70AD and the first premill writings in the 2nd century AD. The 'church fathers', which they really weren't, were not really trained by the apostles. Clement may have known Paul, and perhaps Peter. We have claims by later writers about these supposed fathers but we're missing much to really connect them with the apostles. There's a lot of 'tradition' but a lack of evidence. 90%+ of post 70Ad Christian writings in Greek and Latin have yet to be translated. A lot of clarity will be coming out as these works are translated.
1). We haven't even translated SO many very early church documents. 2). Many other documents are just waiting to be discovered. 3). Apostasy and a Hellenization process moved Christians away from the common Jewish apocalyptic language to a hyper-literal Pharisaic hermeneutic like Premillennialism which was condemned by the Church as "heretical" and on par with "Jewish myths and dreams" (at least they got that right). John Lightfoot, John Owen, John Brown, John Gill and others slowly got the Church back to letting the Bible interpret itself and re-discovering the Biblical context the OT and NT was written in. But 4). even if we get those early church admissions, the heart of the hyper-literalists would just move the goalposts - "well, the heresy of hyper-preterism was earlier in the church than we thought." Jesus said the Church would be able to look back on Him and the Kingdom coming in power in the events of AD 70 and know that it "already happened" (Mark 8:38--9:1). Scripture is good enough for me.
I feel like there is a good chance the Vatican burned or stashed tons of possible material on this stuff at some point too @@michaelsullivan6868
This is the mystery right? The same question could be asked about theologians alive today who have access to more information than they could ever study. Is it possible that we are all blinded by what we want to be true and fail to recognize what the book is saying?
It may be difficult for pastors to become full preterist under threat of losing their job and livelihood
Thanks guys. I just moved to a partial preterist view a year ago. Now this??? I might end up going back to futurism. 🤣
In the future everyone will be a preterist! 😉
Question. How were the Thessalonians rescued from the coming wrath prophesied?
Who is the friend of Gary’s doing a study on “mello”? will this study be available?
The “End of time”? Can you support that term with scripture?
Is your position that there will never be a physical, bodily resurrection, or just that those verses you cite do not speak of it ? Thanks
Mike, I joined your "members only" channel but it doesn't appear I'm on the list. Payment was on 10/21.
Matthew 16:28 says, "Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.” BUT the very next verse in Matthew 17:1 says, "Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves; 2 and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light. 3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him." Jesus shows the three disciples His Kingly Glory in the Transfiguration.
Revelation 13:5 says, "The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. 7 It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over EVERY tribe, people, language and nation. 8 ALL INHABITANTS of the earth will worship the beast-all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life." Are you telling me people in Africa and South America worshipped the anti-christ in the first century? There is ABSOLUTELY no historical evidence whatsoever to support that. This did NOT happen in the first century.
Do people realize that 1 Thess was written first and Mathew was not written until almost 68-69 AD?
A majority of modern NT scholars date 1 Thessalonians to 49-51 AD (Wikipedia).
I think that it is a mistake to call His coming in judgment in 70 AD The 2nd Coming of which most Christians would consider the 2nd Coming of Christ at the End of time or at the end of the effect of the Adamic age.
To Mike-qt7jp: Are you suggesting that the transfiguration which happened six days after Jesus said some standing there would still be alive to see him coming in his kingdom is the event Jesus referred to? First of all, this would mean that Jesus' kingdom came in power at that moment which does not agree with the view most futurists hold that the kingdom hasn't even come yet. Secondly, Jesus was talking to a rather big crowd, not only his disciples (Mark 8:34) and he said SOME of them would still be alive which means that if only SOME of them would still be alive MOST of them wouldn't. How could that possibly apply to an event that happened six days later? It doesn't, but it perfectly fits with an event that would take place 40 years later. I don't know how you could possibly rationally conclude that the transfiguration which was a foreshadow of the parousia, i.e. the end of the old covenant (Moses and Elijah disappear) and the coming into effect of the new covenant (Jesus alone) would have been the coming of the Son of Men in His kingdom of which Jesus was talking about.
full prets have no idea what Christ redeemed people from after Jesus returned, gathered his elect and destroyed his enemies in AD70...
Oh the ranting I can’t take it
Sorry folks no pretrib rapture Jn.6,39,40,44,54 Jesus said All on the last day and Paul said at the last trumpet Rev 11,15 Matt 24,29,30,31 1cor 15 50,51,52 1Thess 4,13-17 Rev 10,6,7 time no more. Your in tribulation now at the first four trumpets getting ready to take out one third of the earth and sea and a multitude of Christians no man can number Rev 7,9,14 by fire, in a one day event probably a nuclear war then the world goes into the woes or last three trumpets 5,6,7 and trumpet six is the seven years of Daniel, I've seen the first five seals and heard the first trumpet September 29,08 the day the stock market crashed 777 and before the hail and fire falls God seals the 144000 then the first four trumpets. Thats were a5 now, repent from false doctrine of a pretrib rapture Jn.6,39,40,44,54 Jesus said All on the last day.