Timestamps: 0:54 - Alexa & Chris KNIERIM split with Aljona SAVCHENKO (In-depth discussion of NBC's / USFS's handling of it as well as talk of Alexa & Chris' SP & FS, and overall progress) 29:40 - Ashley CAIN / Timothy LeDUC, comparing their level deficiencies to Knierims, and Tarasova/Morozov 32:57 - More talk about Knierims' programs (Dave was beginning a new thought, but they went back to Alexa and Chris) 35:34 - Evgenia TARASOVA / Vladimr MOROZOV 39:53 - Minerva Fabienne HASE / Nolan SEEGERT (and the state of pairs' now post-Pyeongchang) 42:01 - Criticism of NBC's Tara/Johnny w/ regard to Vincent, and treating Zhou/Chen as 'rivals' 46:26 - Vincent ZHOU 47:15 - More criticism of Tara/Johnny's commentary (ie: saying a jump was CLEAN when it was NOT, and implying something...) 50:00 - Vincent ZHOU, part 2 51:15 - Jimmy MA 51:51 - Michal BŔEZINA and his coach RAFAEL ARTUNIAN 53:43 - Rule change in Pairs, regarding throw jumps and their GOEs 54:30 - Nathan CHEN 1:01:40 - Madison HUBBELL / Zachary DONOHUE 1:08:56 - Tiffany ZAGORSKI / Jonathan GUERREIRO (talk of their program choice [Usova redux?] as well) 1:09:26 - Segue to LEONA HENDRICKX's Celine Dion SP music, via Dave's private discussions w/ Sandra Bezic ;-) 1:10:21 - Back to Zagorski/Guerreiro 1:10:44 - La La Land music criticisms 1:11:43 - Satoko MIYAHARA (with a hilarious segue of Dave's quizzical-ness over Adam saying Satoko has BDE [Big D-ck Energy]) 1:16:16 - Kaori SAKAMOTO 1:18:01 - Marin HONDA 1:24:47 - PINK BLADES????? :-P 1:25:21 - Bradie TENNELL 1:30:13 - Starr ANDREWS (interesting short discussion re: if Starr could be a pairs skater instead) 1:31:52 - Polina TSURSKAYA 1:33:58 - Megan WESSENBERG 1:35:06 - Dave relates how he left a comment on Tara Lipinski's posting, re: her & Michelle Kwan's rivalry, but the picture had Michelle mostly cropped out), and Tara responded in a surprising way 1:36:19 - Moments of the Week
I feel you guys completely with the Tara/Johnny stuff, it’s like they think they are the main attraction, and turns it into their mini reality show. Lots of their comments have nothing to do with what’s happening. It’s extremely distracting and obnoxious.
Their podcast is even worse, they genuinely think that they're podcast listeners aren't skating fans/don't know anything about skating and are 100% only listening to their podcast based on their own celebrity status. Like??? Who even cares about them at all if they aren't into skating??
I felt a lot of respect and sympathy towards Rafael when he kept talking and talking and talking to Marin in K&C. She wanted to cry and he just kept her focus elsewhere and didn't leave her sad and alone for a second. I think a bit of confusion is better than utter devastation and I hate it when coaches just silently sit there after a very bad skate. He literally shielded her and didn't look into the camera and kept her busy.
As a person who always watches competitions on Eurosport without commentary it's so horrible to watch videos on yt with NBC commentary. They talk SO MUCH and often not even about the skaters that we see atm. Tara giggles and calls some ladies sloppy, Johnny likes to talk about Russian junior girls. It's ridiculous.
dkarwowska I think Tsurskaya was skating her SP when they were gabbing about Tutberidze and the junior squad. Not about Tsurskaya. Not about her current coach or program. So annoying!
And during Sofia Samodurova's skate.. almost saying she's lucky she was a year older than the juniors.. Like otherwise she wouldn't be in the scene or something .. not nice
@@sgeetha7350 Yes! I also get something like that. Johnny Weir said something like Sofia was lucky to have a good birthday that allowed her to compete this year as a senior before all the "quads" came. Pretty rude.
Well it's impossible to avoid anticipation of these Russian youngsters. Imagine if Kostornaya's birthday would be just 2 months earlier and she would be here at this season. Anyway upcoming Russian nationals are going to be bloodbath the world of ladies figure skating haven't seen yet.
Actually, I don't think it will. RusFed has no interest in a junior winning their Nationals if they still need a senior to win Europeans and Worlds. It would hurt their reputation. Even with 2/3 quads Eteri girls get around 145 points in FS and 70/74 in SP. If Alina and Evgenia are clean they will take 1 and 2 respectively because in total they can have even 15/20 points over Anna or Sasha. The bloodbath will be between those 3 Eteri girls of who will take place on the podium.
Alexa, Chris, and Aljona needed more than 2 months to give this a chance. They need time to get to know each other, and then make adjustments so that Aljona could coach them effectively. A/C needed to be open to trying what Aljona was telling them, and Aljona needed to be open to making adjustments if they had legit concerns. It's completely normal to have arguments, but you try to find solutions before pulling the plug. Only those 3 know what happened, but I too wish they could reconcile and compromise. Not having a coach the week of a competition only made things more stressful for them and I wish they could go to NHK together. If you need to modify your programs a bit because the season is quickly approaching, it's not a big deal. You can revisit things when you have more time. Aside from a couple little things in the beginning, they didn't take much out of their LP anyway. I doubt they would want to skip the GP if healthy. When Alexa was sick and had to miss the GP, it crushed her. And it's not as if they looked that unprepared. They did fine at SA given the circumstances and seem to be in good spirits. I don't think this is a Gracie situation where Alexa is sick or anything.
Wow. BDE. Ok then. The Japanese ladies here were all so soft and lovely. Even Kaori - her stroking and edge quality are so lovely. Even with all the falling , Marin’s skating is so lovely.
I love Mark Hanretty and his commentary here (in the UK) on EuroSport. The fact is, Coach changes happen. Alijona is the most amazing and hard-working skater on the planet. I have no idea as to how good a coach she is, because how someone coaches isn't the same as how someone skates. We (the public) don't know what happens behind the scenes. Maybe the chemistry wasn't right? who knows? I think NBC shouldn't be engaged on coaching matters. NBC should have been commentating on the sport and not whats going on behind the scenes. People change coaches every day. But the coach/skater relationship is super-important. Either it's working or it's not. If it's not working, then change it. But having said that, The Knierims skated on a different level than I've seen them skate before, so regardless of how short of their time together, it's clearly been helpful because they had an entirely new presence, despite the mistakes made.
Nice breakdown of Cain/LeDuc's elements. There's more to pairs than staying upright or skating cleanish. Aside from what you mentioned, another area where they lose ground is that they don't have a reverse lasso lift, the highest difficulty lift, which nearly every other pair at this level has. Even with their current lifts which aren't that intricate, they just barely look comfortable with them and frequently miss levels. They've had an underrotation on their 3S jumping pass at all of their events as well. It can be easier to avoid big mistakes when you're underrotating, or landing a small throw in a crouch on two feet, but these things don't give you points. Neither does catching the triple twist with your shoulder. People overreacted in a similar way after Stellato/Bartholomay skated a solid SP at US Nationals. It's difficult for some people to grasp that clean pair skating isn't necessarily high scoring pair skating. You assessment of US pairs was pretty accurate.
And just to add to your assessment, while C/L's long program has some lovely moments, it's not very difficult, which also can make it easier to skate without bigger errors. There is a lot of skating separately up and down the ice with limited interaction between them, more so than is usual in pairs.
I loved it! I remember losing my patience with Tara years ago when she insisted that Ashley was the favorite coming into Skate Canada 2017. And when someone mentioned that the two Canadian ladies- Gabby and Kaetlyn had received silver and bronze at the last world's, Tara still refused to give up the Ashley centric commentary
I'm glad you saw the light and appreciate how good the Knierims' LP is now. So much potential, it's disappointing they don't get to work with Aljona anymore, but no matter how good she was for them, if she had a "my way or the highway" mentality, it was just going to be difficult. Given the awkward and hasty timing of this, I'm leaning towards the Knierims not wanting this split. Maybe they weren't committed to literally everything Aljona told them to do, but they seemed very much committed to Aljona. You could tell Alexa felt really hurt to not have a coach there, and I don't think those feelings would have been as strong if they had just given up and bailed. It was a risky coaching setup to begin with it seems. I think the most stable thing they could do in the short-term before NHK is go back to Colorado unless things are too strained, but Dalilah takes on so many pairs. I would like them to try Zimmerman eventually.
Completely agree the Knierims' potential, especially with the growth they're showing in these programs. They have amazing athleticism and have made big strides artistically. It would be totally understandable if they got a little panicked and started to question the process as the GP approached. They have changed so much about their skating, and there's no way you can get used to all that in two months. It seems they took this summer to truly work on their skating more than just drill programs, which is actually amazing, but might be why they're a little behind. But it seems like leaving your coach the week of an event would exacerbate any concern rather than alleviate it. I hope they can find coaching suitable for their talent. They were gushing over Aljona after Nebelhorn Trophy and seemed so inspired, so I'm sad for them if it can't work out. I'm wondering if the super long hours had anything do with it. Yes, they need to train hard, but I don't know if they were getting one full day off each week, which I think is needed and appropriate for recovery. The schedule seemed a bit Marta Karolyi-esque, but that was just me speculating based on Instagram. Regardless, I was hoping they could work well each other to find a plan that worked for everyone.
If I was actually qualified, I would absolutely love to coach Alexa and Chris. I've always been enamored by their raw athleticism, and they have a new presence on the ice that is very promising after working with Aljona. I hope they can maintain that and continue developing. It's unfair to say Alexa rejects everyone who comes across her. We don't even know what happened. Losing your coach a few days before the Grand Prix is rather devastating and not the way you want to go into a competition, so they must have REALLY not been on the same page. If it was just a matter of a few little disagreements or hard times, I think they would have tried to power through it.
Yes Alexa and Chris's programs are great. The SP got away from them here, but the concept is unique and the LP is really beautiful and sophisticated. Seeing all of their improvements makes me wish they could spend more time with Aljona. Chris said they'd like to work with her again in the future, so there is hope. Alexa and Aljona seemed very close, close enough to talk through issues. I knew they would butt heads at times, especially early on. They are both strong personalities. And it's Aljona's first time coaching, plus A/C are already an established enough pair to have valid thoughts about their training that might differ from Aljona's set ways. I'm just surprised it happened so close to a competition. Not only did they train themselves the week of the event, they moved from one country to another. I'm impressed they held it together as well as they did.
I so wish Alexa and Chris and Aljona could have made it work. I agree with all your points Dave. I'm an alpha and it's so true that if you're 2 alphas not on the same page you're going to burn down the relationship. I did notice Alexa looking nervous and uncomfortable. How could she not? It's all so new. Aljona's first pancake as a coach too. Tough situation. And they changed just about every single thing about their skating. That's bound to be unnerving when you go to put it on competition ice.
49:00 I like Ted Barton, he waits until the skating is finished, and while he's overly-positive, he sounds like he was brought up by my Granny, in that he "finds something positive to say about everything". So either - say something positive, or say nothing. Good for Ted Barton.
Michelle Evans He is a very nice guy and I am thankful for all of the work he does. Also-my maternal grandmother was so critical and perfectionistic about everything! I still feel her judging me for not wearing shoes in the house. My paternal grandmother was very sweet but had real opinions about a certain daughter in law, Kathie Lee and Susan Lucci. She also was obsessed with owls.
I believe Ted said that he follows this philosophy because many times skaters will go on UA-cam to watch past performances. He wanted them to hear something positive even when they didn’t skate that well.
If the situation with Aljona is beyond repair, the Knierims do need a world class coach. Aljona got them to make good improvements, so it seems like they could use something similar to her. I doubt there's anyone in Chicago for a pair at this level. John Zimmerman feels like the next best option. But one thing I loved about them working with Aljona is that they had her undivided attention, at least until she goes on tour, which seemed great for them. There's got to be more to the story. As for James/Cipres having the same music, I don't think that would be an issue if they trained together. They're skating to two completely different versions of Wicked Game that don't really sound anything like each other. J/C's version is dark and has a different vibe. And it might be good for them to train alongside a top pair.
The only thing Alexa said was that the “circus was in town”, and I assumed she was referring to the chaos of NBC announcing the news in the middle of the pair event. It wasn’t right of NBC to blindside them during the interview. I agree that if everyone involved had come up with a set statement, it wouldn’t have had to be as much of a burden for Alexa and Chris to carry all week, but it was a tough situation for them nonetheless. Also we don’t know exactly what happened, so I don’t think it’s fair to blame either side. I saw Aljona wish them luck at SA and Alexa thanked her, so it doesn’t seem as if any bridges were burned at least.
TheSkatingLesson Yes I know you did. Just though it can be said more clearly as you typically focused on the UR :) will look forward to analysis video!
Justyna Żółkiewska I understand the judging isn’t always perfect but that’s just a mean-spirited thing to say when she was the only lady to land a triple lutz, triple toe combination that wasn’t judged under rotated (in both programs), and given the new rules and the strict call record of this event.
I need a place to vent because my family and friends are sick of hearing it haha! I cant be the only one?! I've been watching skating for 30 years (I was raised on it) and skated competitively for 13 years, so it's a wonder it's taken me this long...BUT I'm SO sick of the politics! It breaks my heart because I love this sport. I'm sick of commentators pretending that it doesn't exist. I understand that some are coaches/choreographers who still have students skating and can't risk speaking out. I get that some are former skaters who are trying to protect the sport from being kicked out of the Olympics. It's just frustrating because the skaters are real people who work incredibly hard and sacrifice so much. I completely agree re your Zagitova and Miyahara comment. A clear example of judges rewarding skaters with PCS marks that are too high or not deducting for underrotations. I don't care if judges never deduct for underrotations, but it MUST be evenly applied to the entire field regardless of your name or country of origin. For ice dance to remain a sport, we have to consider objective measurements like ice coverage, speed, power/strength, matching free legs (point and height), free leg extension, matching upper body (extension and position), unison, depth of edges, difficulty of lifts, amount of time in hold vs open skating, amount of time on 1 leg vs 2, amount of cross cuts vs difficult steps (rockers, counters, brackets, chocktaws), etc I'm tired of commentators and judges making excuses for teams who do not display these attributes. H/D have all these skills and should be rewarded for them because they BOTH demonstrate them. I think the story telling in their programs have improved enormously since their first competition. That being said, do I think they are the best story tellers ever? No. Do I think they were the best story tellers at this competition? 100% Do I think they are the best story tellers currently competing? Possibly. None of this is a reflection on the skaters, purely the judging. I don't think it matters if we use 6.0 or the IJS (although this is clearly more objective which is important); nothing will change with judging until the judges no longer represent countries.
There is always risk in going to a first-time coach even if she's the amazing Olympic Champion. There is a learning curve for the coach just as there is for the students. Two months isn't long enough for everyone to have it all figured out. Aljona is someone who used to do a throw triple axel or a throw quad sal at the very end of her long program that she probably wasn't going to land... just because she could. So she may not fully understand a desire from Alexa and Chris to scale back a little for the GP season. But it's all speculation without knowing the actual story. On the other hand, she was helping their skating tremendously, there was so much improvement. And yes she was doing the things to help get them to the top level. Perhaps it was too much information being throw at them too soon. They have the talent but need the patience to know you can't have it all figured out in a few weeks.
Jeff Buttle (on Vincent’s team obviously) and Michael Weiss were also tweeting about it. The conversation about unders gets confusing because I see three issues getting conflated, and it’s hard in some cases to understand what people are getting at...,1.) That call wasn’t accurate (Tara, who flat out said a call was wrong) or 2.) The call is accurate, but the rules and system is rewarding the wrong things/this is why the public gets confused about figure skating, or 3.) That call may be accurate about this skater, but my skater is being unfairly targeted if the tech panel is also not looking at [insert skater and something that did not get called for review]. Also, the commentators act like the system is just so impossible to understand, so when they say calls are flat out wrong (I’m fine with them questioning), it doesn’t seem to help people who wouldn’t typically watch skating get invested.
Erin Brittell this is a really good analysis. Also, I don’t think Jeff Buttle was defending Vincent as much as Michael Weiss and Tom Z were. He said that he didn’t think everything was clean, just that he would’ve called one jump differently. His issue seems to be more along the lines of calls being fair across the board.
Patricia Kuntz Tanith is a true professional. She has worked on her commentary by commentating beach volleyball and curling. She is a worker. She was never the most talented skater but she worked hard. You can tell she is taking the same student approach to commentary and will have such longevity.
TheSkatingLesson I truly hope so about the longevity. She would be such a pleasure to watch in every discipline one day. Her past work and respect for the athletes shines when she commentates.
PwT, early on, yes. When there are skaters ranked 89 in the world skating, she'll talk more. But go back to Tessa and Scott's olympic dance. or Papdakis and Cizeron -- she talked ONCE. She knows when to back off and when to talk for television.
On commentary: I agree that the NBC commentary certainly has room for improvement. A great role model for commentary is Ted Barton. He brought the JGP audience together in respectful appreciation of all the skaters in true sportsmanship spirit. And he lets the skating and effort take center stage. He leaves the fluff for the warm-ups and focuses on the skating when the programme is on, which is a great way to expose new fans to the etiquette of watching the sport. For me, etiquette is not something elitist or snobbish with jargon, it is to respect the hard work athletes have put in and not obscure the experience for others. Dear Jonathan, I appreciate what you said about the media telling the audience what to feel and what to think. It's becoming... more and more pronounced in today's world and just makes the experience sour for all. 1. Some develop opinions based off of "experts" opinion; some are shocked by the incoherence between "expert" opinion and facts. 2. Conflict occurs between those who think for themselves and those who follow "expert opinion", this hurts the sport's fandom. 3. It is tiring.. cause.. it paints the sport in an ugly colour of incoherence and incompetence unnecessarily. Figure skating already suffers from "subjectivity" accusations despite the objective rules. Further muddying the waters with opinions instead of reference to FACTS and rules DOES NOT HELP the sport.
Dave and Jonathan....great video....thank you...this is so COMPLETELY random.....my cat of four years isn't doing well. Listening to both of you is the only thing that stops me from completely breaking down in tears. Thank you for this!
The USFS should not “back” any one skater/team. They should support skating and skaters and try to NOT get in the way and NOT try to guess who will succeed. picking the “next big thing” is juts always where they mess up and cause more problems.
I agree to an extent but at the end of the day, financial support from skating federations is very important for a lot of skaters, skating is not cheap, proper coaching, boots, blades, costumes and travel fees usually costs upwards of $45,000 per year per skater and the federations do need to be smart about where they're putting that money. Funds are limited and when one skater has a chance to medal at world or the olympics, while another can't even make the GPF, of course the first skater will receive more funding from their federation.
Johnny and Tara comparison to Mystery Science Theatre is spot on 👏👏👏 OMG they really do seem to think they are the show and the skating is in the background
I was there in person and Hubbell and Donohue's Romeo and Juliet was definitely better in person than on camera, the crowd was very engaged, it was beautiful and emotional. I dragged my mother (who is not much of a skate fan, she loves watching dance but she's scared of the jumps in figure skating) to the event with me and she was on her phone/on facebook a lot throughout the competition but she was absolutely wrapped up in their skate and even teared up at the end, Hubbell and Donohue's free and Julian Yee's short were the only two skates she gave a standing ovation too.
Polina has a chronic back pain and atm she jumps and skates only to the point that her back allows her. Tarasova was commentating yesterday and she said something like "Fight Polya, there is no other way". She is no longer a junior girl with those stunning jumps and her delayed rotation bites her in the ass now. With all the changes she is in a transitional time and I only hope that she won't give up.
Emilia Skiba polinas mom said she has a hernia and a back injury, not a congenital disease. The girl needs to take a season off to completely resolve her back issues or else she won't be able to compete ever again
Yes, she suffers from Lumbar Hernia, but she also has Osteochondritis dissecans. I get her not wanting to take a year off, because that would be cutting the time she has left for being an athlete short.
Emilia Skiba I think competing like this isn't going to help her. She needs to fully recover from her injuries. There's nothing wrong w taking a season off. Russian athletes come and go and most do not have long careers because they compete w injuries making injuries worse. Satoko took a year off, Bradie took a year off and now they are both competing well. Polina needs to think about her long term career plans and not listen to Russian coaches who think athletes should all peak at 18 and never compete again
@@PtolemyXVII But that's the point. She will not have a long term career. Not because she's like other Russian skaters, but because of her own issues. She already had most of the last season off. I'm not saying I support her decision to skate on. I'm saying I can understand it.
You guys are fast. Going to watch now. By the way Dave and Jonathan I was disappointed with Bradie’s dress I loved her previous Juliet dress so much more 😂😇😘 she needs you guys help for styling so bad!!! And a new hair!!! Thank you so much ☺️ looove your vídeos as usual! 😘😘😘 PS: you guys are right about the NBC commentators they speak to much the Canadians are passive aggressive prefer the British Eurosport with Irish guy who is amazing or the Portuguese Eurosport when they cover events two wonderful ladies also.
Jonathan about the final pose this was just in the rules. They need to hold a final pose for visible moment and then can fall to not receive a deduction. They didn’t hold the pose, so deduction was necessary.
Jonathan Beyer right it’s just I think they probably would get it but seriously. They don’t hold the final pose even for a half of the second. They just feel out of it.
"They need a world class coach to really put them together." Truer words... but the problem here is that they need to LET said world-class coach help them. If they're not willing to work hard to get where they need to be, they'll never get there.
I’m sure they worked hard with Aljona, really hard in fact. It sounds more like they didn’t seen eye to eye on something, perhaps related to program content. Hard to speculate as there is no info out there except for a few words from Aljona.
Alexa and Chris didn't get where they are because they won't be coached. They got this far and improved because they do in fact work hard. They worked through life threatening illness, through death of parent and shit we know nothing of. Alijona is a great skater but that doesn't mean she's a good coach. Who knows who bowed out but because A/C kept quiet people ASSUME they gave up. Alijona may not be ready or cut out for coaching. Maybe it's simply bad timing. Alijona as a new coach...maybe her ego got in the way.
mish098aimer I don't think the Olympics is the end game. Nathan is smart. All he has to do is win endorsements, maybe get a few acting gigs, start his own company, graduate from Yale, and become a public role model. Many Olympic athletes do not go on to have great lives, there are too many athletes addicted to drugs or have no other interests. Nathan has many interests and his goal is probably to go beyond figure skating and doing ice shows. Medvedeva should also think similarly about her long term goals in the same way.
Evan Perilstein Well, you can always go back to figure skating later as well. Nathan probably wants the college experience and doesn't want to be 4+ years older than everyone else if he stops until next olympics are done. University is a time where a huge part of your personality develops into adulthood, and it's important to do that around people who are in the same stage in their lives. Or he might just value education more than figure skating, or both equally. But education is looking at your long term goals, a career to keep for the rest of your life, where as figure skating is just for a few years. And he might just be more passionate about it, I don't know him. But Nathan has expressed that he wants to go into medicine, and as a med student myself, I know a lot can change in 4 years. Demands for specialty, residency positions, and technology and innovation in different fields are always changing, so it's not always going to be there in 4 years. Also opportunities in research can change a lot. I'm not sure about in the states but in Canada, the competitiveness for med school and residency positions have rose over 5 times in the past decade; many who are qualified and talented can't get spots anymore. He's probably taking all this into consideration. In my opinion, if he's having a great experience in college and meeting many interesting profs ie. opportunities to do innovative work in the field, it'd be crazy to throw that away for "just" a change at an olympic medal, but I'm also much more passionate about education and medicine to help others than any sport. Maybe Nathan is that way too, or maybe not, but it's up to him.
Evan Perilstein You may know doctors who didn't practice until they were in their 40s, but the availability of specialties, residency spots, and the innovation changes with time. These things may not be in demand 4 years later. Also, you still have 5+ years of residency for many specialties, so you don't actually get to start your full career until that's finished. And then you'd of course want to work on your craft for as long as possible, as it's a lifetime's worth of development (and then the people after you). Most people would want to start their career earlier, as you have to practice for many years before you can even have enough practice and understanding to start innovative projects. Not everyone wants to be a do the same thing everyday type of family physician (nothing is wrong with that, though). For me, taking a year off wasn't even an option because I want to start practicing ASAP as I loved my experiences in the field and it's my greatest passion and definitely want to be an established physician (after residency) before I'm 40. And each year of my undergrad was very different in experiences, so I'm not sure what experience you've had. It's different for every individual, and in Nathan's case, he's going to have to go with what he is more passionate about and from his limited interviews, it sounds like he is loving college and med school is something he really wants in 4 years time. School is not for everyone, but there is nothing wrong with choosing that over figure skating, even if you're an elite skater.
he did well at the skate america, college really had change him alot , it nice that he is having college experience he wasen't in school for 6 or 7 years but the media will on to him this whole season if he can stay on top but I think at end year of the year he has to chooses
I had the same feeling about Aljona's and Alexa's unauthentic relationship. The split was the result noone could have been suprised by. Aljona will learn how to be good coach and Alexa and Chris should go back to Aljona. Being successful means to get through those problems.
Just remember Marin’s beetlejuice program. It was glorious and perfect for junior worlds. I can see losing your focus when you win junior worlds so clearly one year, then a young Russian wipes the floor with you a year later. She’s gotta get back to Japan I see a huge language barrier and too much sadness.
It doesnt matter where she lives because its her training habits that seems to be an issue. She needs to stick it out and have a different training mindset.
she did say the language is hard but everything else is good. She likes that she can sleep at night feeling that she can try again tommorrow. It won't be a problem if it comes to a point that she wants to go back home, she has enough resources to do anything she wants to do.
Thank you for calling out the insipid and narcissistic "commentary" by Tara and Johnny. Their stick was fun for a while, but has descended into a puerile pit of self-congratulation and self-promotion. It's good to know I'm not the only one who feels this way. Why does no one rein them in?
mackoCF445 it was Eurovision’s isu stream. The link was Eurovisionsports.tv/isu/single-pair-skating-ice-dance/live.html I’m surprised it wasn’t geoblocked because it usually is. I hope it stays that way.
Great Video, Gents! Few Things: 1.) Satoko Miyahara: She was amazing ! Every detail! If she can keep landing those jumps she's my World Champion. She's paid her dues. She's lost in previous seasons to lesser skaters. It's her time. 2.) Nathan Chen: He has selected his "style" with these programs. I'm on the fence about it, but it is distinct. Reminds me of a more aggressively sloppy Yan Han. Chen seems like he's a "gamer," the kind of competitor that maybe won't win practices but does the job under the lights (Re: Kim Zmeskal, Gabby Douglas). I don't think he can stay at Yale full-time. Completely unrealistic and a self-inflicted adverse circumstance. Someone should tell the truth: he really just wanted to put the entire country between him and his stage mom. 3.) Bradie Tennell: She is trying, and that's admirable; but something was off to my untrained eye. You two articulated it perfectly. I am intrigued to see if she will have had an epiphany by nationals/worlds. 4.) The Tara/Johnny Problem: great commentary on their commentary. I enjoy them in other arenas where their friendship and star power is the main attraction (that "Wedding Cake" show they did this summer). In skating, I wish they would call the action in real-time and be more technically driven whilst sprinkling in tidbits of their first-hand competitive experience. Because NBC has so much access, they can do their "schtick" in the fluffs or during the warm-ups. 5.) The Knierims: This dog just won't hunt. If I wanted to win medals in Pair Skating, I would've stayed with the woman who just stepped off the top step at the last 3 major international competitions Pair competitions (Grand Prix Finals, Olympics, Worlds)...Aliona! I'm officially done with them. 6.) Weekly Delusion: How about we pair Starr Andrews with Chris Knierim? I think they'd be exciting/interesting to watch. And maybe they could be a top team? Thoughts? Who would be the perfect fir for Starr in a Pair Skating world? Let's play this game! I'm excited.
Honestly I find Tara and Johnny distracting and annoying. I love the isu commentary the ice skating is the central focus and I love the commentary. Ted Barton is Very nice..😬
kleinegritzige lol yes! It's so annoying when they do that...I enjoyed watching skate Canada when there was no commentary and I could hear them talking in the kiss and cry!😬😬
I normally don't mind Johnny's commentary as much as some people do (although I think he'd be a lot better paired with someone else), but I have to agree that the commentary at this event was...not good. In particular, I thought the snarky comment he made ten seconds into Satoko's short program about the tech caller being Japanese was really uncalled for. Like, could we let her attempt even one jump before telling the viewers that if she gets a good score it's only because the tech panel is biased? And of course we never hear them complain when American skaters are helped out by friendly tech or judging panels. I also had to laugh at them bringing out the same dusty talking points about Satoko: she just missed the podium at the Olympics, she's prone to UR, and did you know that she's such a hard worker that her coaches sometimes have to monitor her nutrition! If they'd done any current prep or research, they might have known that Satoko has spent the last few months working on her jumps with Ghislain Briand from TCC and that she's said that she's determined to do whatever it takes to improve her technique and fix her URs, and then they wouldn't have been sounding so surprised when her jumps looked better here.
Not gonna lie. I was in the audience and confused about Vincent’s score but I get it now, thanks for explaining. I hope he can correct his jump technique because he has so much potential.
Do we know who initiated the split? I’m guessing to some extent it was mutual, but I’m wondering who was first to say it can’t work. And are you trying to say that their arguments were over transitions? Because skaters change transitions all the time. We probably will never know the full story and as fans we don’t really need to know. It sounded like an amazing and promising thing two weeks ago and Alexa and Aljona were texting buddies and surely could work through some disagreements right? And then all of a sudden it was done. I can’t think of many, if any, instances of athletes stranded without a coach a week or so before a bigger event. Aside from that story, their skating is really progressing, they have obvious talent, and hopefully they will find the right coaching fit.
I agree with Nathan looking sloppy. I'm very annoyed at his posture. I find the slouching very juniorish. He needs to see that mean ballet teacher to work on his posture. Also his free skate costume looks like a pajamas.
Everything Nathan does is for a reason. His costume matches his music and does it matter if you like it. His posture is fine, I haven't seen a single area where is posture was on purposely bad. Look it look like anyone cares that YOU think his posture is "annoying"? If you just want to criticize the world champion please keep it to yourself.
Satoko's SP is indeed quite stunning, it could get even better with a few more sustained accents here and there. Tango LP is a little blurred at the moment, but tasteful nonetheless. How she gets lower PCS than Junior Queen Zagitova is the real travesty. Hubbell/Donohue's skating skills totally eclipsed others in this competition. I think in terms of step construction and step execution, they are still showing steady progress. The R&J music could use some change in edits to delineate a clearer structure and helps the performance achieve a more complete arc. But I do think it looks better than at US Classics---details are coming out. They could still work on using to the fullest extent their hands and heads to accent or supplement the music emotionally and visually.
Bradie needs to go to Alissa's dressmaker. She needs someone who knows how to dress someone tall and lanky. And those flowy dresses would make her look more graceful.
Such a shame they didn’t see the opportunity they had with Aliona. I was so excited for them especially with seeing the style of their programs. What coach would want to take them if they are not going to work?! Such a shame.
We don’t have the full story here. It sounds it might be more a disagreement about program content (ie do you change something or just work harder at it) and Aljona may have only wanted it to be done her way. I’m sure they were working hard, it seems like they were putting in long hours at the rink.
Accurate discussion about the Knierims and Cain/LeDuc. Tarasova/Morozov don't UR jumps unless maybe they miss the jump like they did here. It's different than C/L who land them with frequent URs. I've seen a couple people say that Aljona is extremely intense, and the concern was that she would expect the Knierims to train exactly as she did. And that's too bad because they look drastically better and were responding well to her. If this broke up over them wanting to change a couple transitions, that's just sad. I feel like they're on such a right track. Even if it's slow because of all the changes, it feels right. But they cannot coach themselves in Illinois. They deserve a lot better than that.
I think they should have given this more time - but it isn’t clear to me if it is Alexa (OMG- my Alexa is going apeshit and adding all kinds of crappy to my shopping list) or Aljona that gave up. I definitely think that Aljona being a new coach has a lot to do with both whatever happened and how it got “announced”. All that aside - I feel like the rest of the world is trying to catch up with how awful US Pairs are. Maybe we should let the pair do just 3 Grand Prix events so they can start later...... (1/2 joking).
I remember Mie Hamada was angry at Media for "pampering" Marin. Marin already got commercials, interviews, and now Japanese Airline is supporting her, so literally, she doesn't need to have the best results to get all that many other skaters needed at least a World Medal. Mao and Miki are different because they had a signature jumps like Triple Axel or a Quad, but I can't remember if Hanyu or Takahashi had any before they got a World or an Olympic Medal (yes, interviews, but I can't recall them getting as much as Marin). Ladies tend to get more attention naturally, and Marin got famous sister (actor) and Marin herself is already attractive... so it's like, why commit to it? It's really up to her.
I do wonder, if Marin keeps skating like this, how long her fame and big sponsors can ensure she gets 2 GPs. The Japanese ladies are already maxed out on GP spots, and there may be junior girls coming up who do well at junior worlds and beat Marin at nationals... But of course, I'd prefer to see her step up so I don't have to learn the answer!
@mish098aimer @NihonB Honestly, I don't think JAL would let her go because it's like an agency firing one of the well known athlete. Although Kaori, Rika and Mai have better portfolio, the media is still chasing after Marin, not them (as much as her). I feel Marin needs to find good role model and a mentor. They don't come to you, you find them. Marin is used to people coming to her, so it may be a different kind of challenge. Unlike TSL, I felt this situation will come to her even before she became 2 times Jr. World Champ Medalist. I guess I knew more about the situation and her personality because I know Japanese. Even if she does work hard, no sport has promise so she may not end up in the place TSL wants anyway.
@@RakuRadio I don't think Lotte will show the CM unless she gets winning results, though they still use her image on print. It's likely they will pass it on to Rika if she keeps being golden and the market response is strong. If her marketability doesn't increase even with the results, they can always stick to Yuzu.
Marin told the media her ankle felt "strange" from the morning practice and then it hurt after her first fall. I... don't want to say that I don't believe her. I bet that fall really hurt! It's just the way she said it, in Japanese felt a bit... hmm. With any other Japanese lady, I'd immediately take it at face value, but Marin tends to work the media a bit more. I'd just say that when the immediate short articles came up about the results, it was kind of "Satoko and Kaori double podium! Honda only 8th." But by the evening, there were sympathetic headlines about Marin's tears and her injured ankle... but still nothing specific about an actual injury. But if it's really something serious, I hope she gets better soon! She really does have so much potential.
Rewatching Tarasova and Morozov. I thought they looked really great in the long. Not perfect. What color should she dye her hair? I've been wondering all afternoon. Not red. Darker maybe. But I thougth she looked good? Cain and Leduc look good but they are so so similar in size it's distracting for me.
Does Jonathan ever disagree with Dave? Very catty comment regarding Jimmy Ma. He's doing his own thing and being authentic. Skating to pop music gets attention and brings new fans to the sport- no need to be a snob about it and put him down.
So it was their initiative to split up? Sad, everyone noticed they had improved so much with her. I wish Medvedeva would show such vivid improvement under Orser's supervision.
I think Aljona may have initiated the split. The Knierims were excited about being there and learning from her. But Aljona is a brand new coach and needed to adapt her methods somewhat to suit their needs. There isn't one perfect way of doing everything, and not every person can be coached the same. She had already helped them a lot, so it's sad to see this.
I disagree with what you are saying about Vincent and artistry. He is on his way and he will be fine artistically. I am more concerned about his injuries and his ability to play the technical. One thing that is hard to gauge on tv is speed. How is vincent's speed?
Anyone ever stop to think that with Gracie and with Alexa('circus coming to town') and a lesser extent Nathan, that maybe you stop and ask them what they want and what they feel? Seems like all things ever are is telling them what they need to do or how they need to be. Instead of talking with them it's always talking at them. Just my two cents.
Tarasova and Morozov's lifts look a bit scary in the second half to me. I think they have a stamina issue at times (not enough run throughs???) and their lift positions might be difficult but not always pretty.
Yeah occasionally they'll have a lift issue. As for the positions, pairs do what they have to do to get the levels and outdo the other pairs in terms of intricacy, position changes, etc. There are simpler positions that may be prettier but won't get the points.
Ok the comment about no transition into throw means you can't get more than a +3 surprised me so went and looked. That's actually incorrect. The mandatory three bullet points are 1. Good height and distance. 2. Good control and flow on release and landing. 3. Effortless. So yes you can get a +5 without a transition in by having the three mandatory bullet points and then 5. Very good air position and 6. Matched music. The 4. Entry bullet point isn't mandatory.
@@TheSkatingLesson oh right. I thought it was odd when you were talking about it so went and looked at the rules thinkink it must be one of the mandatory ●. So basically the ISU just decided and told people by world of mouth? Lol
Ben Bailey They do seem to issue guidelines and suggestions for pairs and ice dance after the rules come out. It may be due to there being far fewer participants than in singles.
I understand where you are coming from Dave, but how on earth can you react as if this is so surprising to you? NBC hired Johnny & Tara to be Johnny & Tara. Or did we all not watch the same NBC Broadcast from Pyeongchang? They got to do the closing ceremony for the very fact that they made almost as many headlines for their outfits and commentary as the actual skating itself. Tells me that NBC is not catering to die hard skating fans, but layman that really don't pay much to any attention outside of the Olympics. The vast decline of skating in the US IMHO is why NBC love Johnny & Tara, may be obnoxious, annoying, and less informative at times, but NBC obviously cares about putting on a show and they don't think the skating itself can deliver that. For better or worse, Johnny & Tara are here to stay.
My best friend Mia and I love nothing in this world more than people watching. We have an astute instinct about strangers that has never proved untrue. There is a very specific group of people that we call “blobs”, and the best way to describe a blob is someone that can’t maneuver their way to the front of a concert despite many openings. You can spot them if you try. Bradie is a blob. Thank you for your time.
What about Julian Yee’s 4S in the short!!! He didn’t have a great long but the short was near perfect. Plus it’s his first GP and the first Malaysian skater in a GP
@@TheSkatingLesson The long could grow on me, even though I'm the "no tango unless you're an ice dancer" girl. I just hate that Sparrow music. Boring elevator claptrap. We go from The Planets and Puccini to this blah? Satoko doesn't look into it either. Not like she has in the past.
If i were professor Charles Xavier, I’d be looking in Alexa’s brain for the new panic which would be “ oh shit... we left too soon and should Have saw it through”...
Thank you, really enjoyed this episode! I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't enjoy the NBC commentary. It's snarky and too conversational, and sometimes not even about the skater or his/her skating. The NBC commentary should not be centered on Tara or Johnny as individuals. I find Johnny's commentary more insightful and informative, but yes, they do have a set narrative that is often forced into a tight time frame. I do not enjoy Tara's commentary. It's borderline offensive when she says skaters "struggle" with this and that. She's confident, sure. But nothing else. It's not unique or insightful. I miss Dick Button's commentary.
Timestamps:
0:54 - Alexa & Chris KNIERIM split with Aljona SAVCHENKO (In-depth discussion of NBC's / USFS's handling of it as well as talk of Alexa & Chris' SP & FS, and overall progress)
29:40 - Ashley CAIN / Timothy LeDUC, comparing their level deficiencies to Knierims, and Tarasova/Morozov
32:57 - More talk about Knierims' programs (Dave was beginning a new thought, but they went back to Alexa and Chris)
35:34 - Evgenia TARASOVA / Vladimr MOROZOV
39:53 - Minerva Fabienne HASE / Nolan SEEGERT (and the state of pairs' now post-Pyeongchang)
42:01 - Criticism of NBC's Tara/Johnny w/ regard to Vincent, and treating Zhou/Chen as 'rivals'
46:26 - Vincent ZHOU
47:15 - More criticism of Tara/Johnny's commentary (ie: saying a jump was CLEAN when it was NOT, and implying something...)
50:00 - Vincent ZHOU, part 2
51:15 - Jimmy MA
51:51 - Michal BŔEZINA and his coach RAFAEL ARTUNIAN
53:43 - Rule change in Pairs, regarding throw jumps and their GOEs
54:30 - Nathan CHEN
1:01:40 - Madison HUBBELL / Zachary DONOHUE
1:08:56 - Tiffany ZAGORSKI / Jonathan GUERREIRO (talk of their program choice [Usova redux?] as well)
1:09:26 - Segue to LEONA HENDRICKX's Celine Dion SP music, via Dave's private discussions w/ Sandra Bezic ;-)
1:10:21 - Back to Zagorski/Guerreiro
1:10:44 - La La Land music criticisms
1:11:43 - Satoko MIYAHARA (with a hilarious segue of Dave's quizzical-ness over Adam saying Satoko has BDE [Big D-ck Energy])
1:16:16 - Kaori SAKAMOTO
1:18:01 - Marin HONDA
1:24:47 - PINK BLADES????? :-P
1:25:21 - Bradie TENNELL
1:30:13 - Starr ANDREWS (interesting short discussion re: if Starr could be a pairs skater instead)
1:31:52 - Polina TSURSKAYA
1:33:58 - Megan WESSENBERG
1:35:06 - Dave relates how he left a comment on Tara Lipinski's posting, re: her & Michelle Kwan's rivalry, but the picture had Michelle mostly cropped out), and Tara responded in a surprising way
1:36:19 - Moments of the Week
Thank you！
You're a saint you know that?
Thank you! I was lost without your list^^
Thank you so much!
Thank you!!! You are so awesome
I feel you guys completely with the Tara/Johnny stuff, it’s like they think they are the main attraction, and turns it into their mini reality show. Lots of their comments have nothing to do with what’s happening. It’s extremely distracting and obnoxious.
K Emrys
Their podcast is even worse, they genuinely think that they're podcast listeners aren't skating fans/don't know anything about skating and are 100% only listening to their podcast based on their own celebrity status. Like??? Who even cares about them at all if they aren't into skating??
its awful. i think its getting worse every season. dick button's commentary was pure art. tara and johnny are just insufferable.
I miss the old commentators so bad
I felt a lot of respect and sympathy towards Rafael when he kept talking and talking and talking to Marin in K&C. She wanted to cry and he just kept her focus elsewhere and didn't leave her sad and alone for a second. I think a bit of confusion is better than utter devastation and I hate it when coaches just silently sit there after a very bad skate. He literally shielded her and didn't look into the camera and kept her busy.
mish098aimer oh, I couldn’t hear what he was saying:(
mish098aimer how do you know what he said? I had a hard time understanding Raf with the NBC broadcast.
Yes. I really saw the moral support he gave to Marin. I really wish the best for her. I'm so glad she found a good coach.
Holy fast upload!! I just stepped in my door from Skate America! Thank you guys for all of your hard work in getting these done so quickly!
Shannon Shopshire you’re welcome! It wasn’t fast enough for Twitter last night!! There were gifs!
Shannon Shopshire I love it they’re working in the AM for us.
I got the notification right after getting home from the event too! I was too tired to watch it last night though
As a person who always watches competitions on Eurosport without commentary it's so horrible to watch videos on yt with NBC commentary. They talk SO MUCH and often not even about the skaters that we see atm. Tara giggles and calls some ladies sloppy, Johnny likes to talk about Russian junior girls. It's ridiculous.
dkarwowska I think Tsurskaya was skating her SP when they were gabbing about Tutberidze and the junior squad. Not about Tsurskaya. Not about her current coach or program. So annoying!
And during Sofia Samodurova's skate.. almost saying she's lucky she was a year older than the juniors.. Like otherwise she wouldn't be in the scene or something .. not nice
@@sgeetha7350 Yes! I also get something like that. Johnny Weir said something like Sofia was lucky to have a good birthday that allowed her to compete this year as a senior before all the "quads" came. Pretty rude.
Well it's impossible to avoid anticipation of these Russian youngsters. Imagine if Kostornaya's birthday would be just 2 months earlier and she would be here at this season. Anyway upcoming Russian nationals are going to be bloodbath the world of ladies figure skating haven't seen yet.
Actually, I don't think it will. RusFed has no interest in a junior winning their Nationals if they still need a senior to win Europeans and Worlds. It would hurt their reputation. Even with 2/3 quads Eteri girls get around 145 points in FS and 70/74 in SP. If Alina and Evgenia are clean they will take 1 and 2 respectively because in total they can have even 15/20 points over Anna or Sasha. The bloodbath will be between those 3 Eteri girls of who will take place on the podium.
Alexa, Chris, and Aljona needed more than 2 months to give this a chance. They need time to get to know each other, and then make adjustments so that Aljona could coach them effectively. A/C needed to be open to trying what Aljona was telling them, and Aljona needed to be open to making adjustments if they had legit concerns. It's completely normal to have arguments, but you try to find solutions before pulling the plug. Only those 3 know what happened, but I too wish they could reconcile and compromise. Not having a coach the week of a competition only made things more stressful for them and I wish they could go to NHK together.
If you need to modify your programs a bit because the season is quickly approaching, it's not a big deal. You can revisit things when you have more time. Aside from a couple little things in the beginning, they didn't take much out of their LP anyway. I doubt they would want to skip the GP if healthy. When Alexa was sick and had to miss the GP, it crushed her. And it's not as if they looked that unprepared. They did fine at SA given the circumstances and seem to be in good spirits. I don't think this is a Gracie situation where Alexa is sick or anything.
Wow. BDE. Ok then. The Japanese ladies here were all so soft and lovely. Even Kaori - her stroking and edge quality are so lovely. Even with all the falling , Marin’s skating is so lovely.
I love Mark Hanretty and his commentary here (in the UK) on EuroSport. The fact is, Coach changes happen. Alijona is the most amazing and hard-working skater on the planet. I have no idea as to how good a coach she is, because how someone coaches isn't the same as how someone skates. We (the public) don't know what happens behind the scenes. Maybe the chemistry wasn't right? who knows? I think NBC shouldn't be engaged on coaching matters. NBC should have been commentating on the sport and not whats going on behind the scenes. People change coaches every day. But the coach/skater relationship is super-important. Either it's working or it's not. If it's not working, then change it. But having said that, The Knierims skated on a different level than I've seen them skate before, so regardless of how short of their time together, it's clearly been helpful because they had an entirely new presence, despite the mistakes made.
Nice breakdown of Cain/LeDuc's elements. There's more to pairs than staying upright or skating cleanish. Aside from what you mentioned, another area where they lose ground is that they don't have a reverse lasso lift, the highest difficulty lift, which nearly every other pair at this level has. Even with their current lifts which aren't that intricate, they just barely look comfortable with them and frequently miss levels. They've had an underrotation on their 3S jumping pass at all of their events as well. It can be easier to avoid big mistakes when you're underrotating, or landing a small throw in a crouch on two feet, but these things don't give you points. Neither does catching the triple twist with your shoulder. People overreacted in a similar way after Stellato/Bartholomay skated a solid SP at US Nationals. It's difficult for some people to grasp that clean pair skating isn't necessarily high scoring pair skating. You assessment of US pairs was pretty accurate.
Liana -Stefanelli thank you for that breakdown.
And just to add to your assessment, while C/L's long program has some lovely moments, it's not very difficult, which also can make it easier to skate without bigger errors. There is a lot of skating separately up and down the ice with limited interaction between them, more so than is usual in pairs.
Thanks for finally explaining! Not sure what's up with their triples, as that's what they used to be best at!
Her we go fans.
Dave is not having it with Tara and Johnny this episode. lol.
I loved them in Sochi, but it is all about them now, not the skating.
Good!!!!!
Of course he would, she mocked him at instagram
I loved it! I remember losing my patience with Tara years ago when she insisted that Ashley was the favorite coming into Skate Canada 2017. And when someone mentioned that the two Canadian ladies- Gabby and Kaetlyn had received silver and bronze at the last world's, Tara still refused to give up the Ashley centric commentary
The gag is she was a different commentator before Weir came along.
I'm glad you saw the light and appreciate how good the Knierims' LP is now. So much potential, it's disappointing they don't get to work with Aljona anymore, but no matter how good she was for them, if she had a "my way or the highway" mentality, it was just going to be difficult. Given the awkward and hasty timing of this, I'm leaning towards the Knierims not wanting this split. Maybe they weren't committed to literally everything Aljona told them to do, but they seemed very much committed to Aljona. You could tell Alexa felt really hurt to not have a coach there, and I don't think those feelings would have been as strong if they had just given up and bailed. It was a risky coaching setup to begin with it seems. I think the most stable thing they could do in the short-term before NHK is go back to Colorado unless things are too strained, but Dalilah takes on so many pairs. I would like them to try Zimmerman eventually.
Completely agree the Knierims' potential, especially with the growth they're showing in these programs. They have amazing athleticism and have made big strides artistically. It would be totally understandable if they got a little panicked and started to question the process as the GP approached. They have changed so much about their skating, and there's no way you can get used to all that in two months. It seems they took this summer to truly work on their skating more than just drill programs, which is actually amazing, but might be why they're a little behind. But it seems like leaving your coach the week of an event would exacerbate any concern rather than alleviate it. I hope they can find coaching suitable for their talent. They were gushing over Aljona after Nebelhorn Trophy and seemed so inspired, so I'm sad for them if it can't work out.
I'm wondering if the super long hours had anything do with it. Yes, they need to train hard, but I don't know if they were getting one full day off each week, which I think is needed and appropriate for recovery. The schedule seemed a bit Marta Karolyi-esque, but that was just me speculating based on Instagram. Regardless, I was hoping they could work well each other to find a plan that worked for everyone.
If I was actually qualified, I would absolutely love to coach Alexa and Chris. I've always been enamored by their raw athleticism, and they have a new presence on the ice that is very promising after working with Aljona. I hope they can maintain that and continue developing. It's unfair to say Alexa rejects everyone who comes across her. We don't even know what happened. Losing your coach a few days before the Grand Prix is rather devastating and not the way you want to go into a competition, so they must have REALLY not been on the same page. If it was just a matter of a few little disagreements or hard times, I think they would have tried to power through it.
Yes Alexa and Chris's programs are great. The SP got away from them here, but the concept is unique and the LP is really beautiful and sophisticated. Seeing all of their improvements makes me wish they could spend more time with Aljona. Chris said they'd like to work with her again in the future, so there is hope. Alexa and Aljona seemed very close, close enough to talk through issues. I knew they would butt heads at times, especially early on. They are both strong personalities. And it's Aljona's first time coaching, plus A/C are already an established enough pair to have valid thoughts about their training that might differ from Aljona's set ways. I'm just surprised it happened so close to a competition. Not only did they train themselves the week of the event, they moved from one country to another. I'm impressed they held it together as well as they did.
Satoko is the only one doing a tango this year that REALLY can do a solo tango. It's incredible.
The australian commentator is Belinda Noonan!! I met her once in Sydney she is a really nice lady
Jasmine Clewes thank you!
She used to coach Danielle and Stephen Carr in the 90s.
We love Belinda! ❤ Literally the perfect commentator
Re: Tara and Johnny. I was getting training to be an announcer for skating this weekend, The Prime directive: The skaters are the show.
“Tara is an Olympic champion. She does not know what in under rotated jump looks like?”
Well, did she know what a “flutz” looked like? 🤔😉
Starr’s packaging in the SP is really good. The dress. The music. The choreography. Lovely.
"Tell us that when they are cleaning up the flowers!" Amen!!!!!!!
I so wish Alexa and Chris and Aljona could have made it work. I agree with all your points Dave. I'm an alpha and it's so true that if you're 2 alphas not on the same page you're going to burn down the relationship. I did notice Alexa looking nervous and uncomfortable. How could she not? It's all so new. Aljona's first pancake as a coach too. Tough situation. And they changed just about every single thing about their skating. That's bound to be unnerving when you go to put it on competition ice.
49:00 I like Ted Barton, he waits until the skating is finished, and while he's overly-positive, he sounds like he was brought up by my Granny, in that he "finds something positive to say about everything". So either - say something positive, or say nothing. Good for Ted Barton.
Michelle Evans He is a very nice guy and I am thankful for all of the work he does. Also-my maternal grandmother was so critical and perfectionistic about everything! I still feel her judging me for not wearing shoes in the house.
My paternal grandmother was very sweet but had real opinions about a certain daughter in law, Kathie Lee and Susan Lucci. She also was obsessed with owls.
I believe Ted said that he follows this philosophy because many times skaters will go on UA-cam to watch past performances. He wanted them to hear something positive even when they didn’t skate that well.
If the situation with Aljona is beyond repair, the Knierims do need a world class coach. Aljona got them to make good improvements, so it seems like they could use something similar to her. I doubt there's anyone in Chicago for a pair at this level. John Zimmerman feels like the next best option. But one thing I loved about them working with Aljona is that they had her undivided attention, at least until she goes on tour, which seemed great for them. There's got to be more to the story. As for James/Cipres having the same music, I don't think that would be an issue if they trained together. They're skating to two completely different versions of Wicked Game that don't really sound anything like each other. J/C's version is dark and has a different vibe. And it might be good for them to train alongside a top pair.
The only thing Alexa said was that the “circus was in town”, and I assumed she was referring to the chaos of NBC announcing the news in the middle of the pair event. It wasn’t right of NBC to blindside them during the interview. I agree that if everyone involved had come up with a set statement, it wouldn’t have had to be as much of a burden for Alexa and Chris to carry all week, but it was a tough situation for them nonetheless. Also we don’t know exactly what happened, so I don’t think it’s fair to blame either side. I saw Aljona wish them luck at SA and Alexa thanked her, so it doesn’t seem as if any bridges were burned at least.
Guys Satoko didn’t have a single UR in this competition! Give her some credit where it’s due!
Alexia Hsin Chen she looked great and I believe we raved about her. I’m also going to do a +5/-5 deep dive into her short program.
TheSkatingLesson thanks!
TheSkatingLesson Yes I know you did. Just though it can be said more clearly as you typically focused on the UR :) will look forward to analysis video!
Tbh not calling doesn’t mean urs were not there. Still her jumps seem higher.
Justyna Żółkiewska I understand the judging isn’t always perfect but that’s just a mean-spirited thing to say when she was the only lady to land a triple lutz, triple toe combination that wasn’t judged under rotated (in both programs), and given the new rules and the strict call record of this event.
Hard work putting it together that fast! You are amazing guys! Tx!
DuniaR
“I don’t want to feel scared... I just want to feel lonely and lecherous like I normally do.” 😂
“Emoting through soup” 🍲
I need a place to vent because my family and friends are sick of hearing it haha! I cant be the only one?!
I've been watching skating for 30 years (I was raised on it) and skated competitively for 13 years, so it's a wonder it's taken me this long...BUT I'm SO sick of the politics! It breaks my heart because I love this sport. I'm sick of commentators pretending that it doesn't exist. I understand that some are coaches/choreographers who still have students skating and can't risk speaking out. I get that some are former skaters who are trying to protect the sport from being kicked out of the Olympics. It's just frustrating because the skaters are real people who work incredibly hard and sacrifice so much.
I completely agree re your Zagitova and Miyahara comment. A clear example of judges rewarding skaters with PCS marks that are too high or not deducting for underrotations. I don't care if judges never deduct for underrotations, but it MUST be evenly applied to the entire field regardless of your name or country of origin.
For ice dance to remain a sport, we have to consider objective measurements like ice coverage, speed, power/strength, matching free legs (point and height), free leg extension, matching upper body (extension and position), unison, depth of edges, difficulty of lifts, amount of time in hold vs open skating, amount of time on 1 leg vs 2, amount of cross cuts vs difficult steps (rockers, counters, brackets, chocktaws), etc I'm tired of commentators and judges making excuses for teams who do not display these attributes. H/D have all these skills and should be rewarded for them because they BOTH demonstrate them. I think the story telling in their programs have improved enormously since their first competition. That being said, do I think they are the best story tellers ever? No. Do I think they were the best story tellers at this competition? 100% Do I think they are the best story tellers currently competing? Possibly.
None of this is a reflection on the skaters, purely the judging. I don't think it matters if we use 6.0 or the IJS (although this is clearly more objective which is important); nothing will change with judging until the judges no longer represent countries.
There is always risk in going to a first-time coach even if she's the amazing Olympic Champion. There is a learning curve for the coach just as there is for the students. Two months isn't long enough for everyone to have it all figured out. Aljona is someone who used to do a throw triple axel or a throw quad sal at the very end of her long program that she probably wasn't going to land... just because she could. So she may not fully understand a desire from Alexa and Chris to scale back a little for the GP season. But it's all speculation without knowing the actual story. On the other hand, she was helping their skating tremendously, there was so much improvement. And yes she was doing the things to help get them to the top level. Perhaps it was too much information being throw at them too soon. They have the talent but need the patience to know you can't have it all figured out in a few weeks.
Thanks for articulating my and many viewers’ frustration at jonny and tara.
It’s 3am but I’m watching it anyway.
Also Mirai just sassed me on Twitter, I think this is appropriate timing.
I love Mirai but like of course she would agree with the person saying under-rotation calls are nonsense 😂
Jeff Buttle (on Vincent’s team obviously) and Michael Weiss were also tweeting about it. The conversation about unders gets confusing because I see three issues getting conflated, and it’s hard in some cases to understand what people are getting at...,1.) That call wasn’t accurate (Tara, who flat out said a call was wrong) or 2.) The call is accurate, but the rules and system is rewarding the wrong things/this is why the public gets confused about figure skating, or 3.) That call may be accurate about this skater, but my skater is being unfairly targeted if the tech panel is also not looking at [insert skater and something that did not get called for review]. Also, the commentators act like the system is just so impossible to understand, so when they say calls are flat out wrong (I’m fine with them questioning), it doesn’t seem to help people who wouldn’t typically watch skating get invested.
Erin Brittell this is a really good analysis. Also, I don’t think Jeff Buttle was defending Vincent as much as Michael Weiss and Tom Z were. He said that he didn’t think everything was clean, just that he would’ve called one jump differently. His issue seems to be more along the lines of calls being fair across the board.
On a non-skating related note: Jonathan, I appreciated your oversharing (:
Loved this!😍 Your videos are the highlight of my week!😂
Thank god. After watching the hot mess that was Skate America I’ve been looking forward to this upload!
And thank you two for yet another fantastic and HONEST video!
Stephanie Senerchia
Red Bull and passion! I'm here for it. Thank you!!!
Meghann Pytka you’re welcome!!
NBC’s coverage just made me want Tanith to commentate on everything.
Patricia Kuntz Tanith is a true professional. She has worked on her commentary by commentating beach volleyball and curling. She is a worker. She was never the most talented skater but she worked hard. You can tell she is taking the same student approach to commentary and will have such longevity.
TheSkatingLesson I truly hope so about the longevity. She would be such a pleasure to watch in every discipline one day. Her past work and respect for the athletes shines when she commentates.
Yes, please
Tanith talks too much for my taste too...
PwT, early on, yes. When there are skaters ranked 89 in the world skating, she'll talk more. But go back to Tessa and Scott's olympic dance. or Papdakis and Cizeron -- she talked ONCE. She knows when to back off and when to talk for television.
On commentary:
I agree that the NBC commentary certainly has room for improvement. A great role model for commentary is Ted Barton. He brought the JGP audience together in respectful appreciation of all the skaters in true sportsmanship spirit. And he lets the skating and effort take center stage. He leaves the fluff for the warm-ups and focuses on the skating when the programme is on, which is a great way to expose new fans to the etiquette of watching the sport. For me, etiquette is not something elitist or snobbish with jargon, it is to respect the hard work athletes have put in and not obscure the experience for others.
Dear Jonathan, I appreciate what you said about the media telling the audience what to feel and what to think. It's becoming... more and more pronounced in today's world and just makes the experience sour for all.
1. Some develop opinions based off of "experts" opinion; some are shocked by the incoherence between "expert" opinion and facts.
2. Conflict occurs between those who think for themselves and those who follow "expert opinion", this hurts the sport's fandom.
3. It is tiring.. cause.. it paints the sport in an ugly colour of incoherence and incompetence unnecessarily.
Figure skating already suffers from "subjectivity" accusations despite the objective rules. Further muddying the waters with opinions instead of reference to FACTS and rules DOES NOT HELP the sport.
Dave and Jonathan....great video....thank you...this is so COMPLETELY random.....my cat of four years isn't doing well. Listening to both of you is the only thing that stops me from completely breaking down in tears. Thank you for this!
Angela Laurent I’m so sorry about your cat!
Thank you so much! Thank you for brightening a very dark time!
You know you're early when the video is still on private lmao
JetBlueAirways320 you are on top of life!!
The USFS should not “back” any one skater/team. They should support skating and skaters and try to NOT get in the way and NOT try to guess who will succeed. picking the “next big thing” is juts always where they mess up and cause more problems.
I agree to an extent but at the end of the day, financial support from skating federations is very important for a lot of skaters, skating is not cheap, proper coaching, boots, blades, costumes and travel fees usually costs upwards of $45,000 per year per skater and the federations do need to be smart about where they're putting that money. Funds are limited and when one skater has a chance to medal at world or the olympics, while another can't even make the GPF, of course the first skater will receive more funding from their federation.
Johnny and Tara comparison to Mystery Science Theatre is spot on 👏👏👏 OMG they really do seem to think they are the show and the skating is in the background
I hope everything works out with Alexa & Chris cause I really like them... they were one of the few pairs that I actually watched at skate america.
I must say, my life is always enriched watching you both. I'm very appreciative of these videos :)
I was there in person and Hubbell and Donohue's Romeo and Juliet was definitely better in person than on camera, the crowd was very engaged, it was beautiful and emotional. I dragged my mother (who is not much of a skate fan, she loves watching dance but she's scared of the jumps in figure skating) to the event with me and she was on her phone/on facebook a lot throughout the competition but she was absolutely wrapped up in their skate and even teared up at the end, Hubbell and Donohue's free and Julian Yee's short were the only two skates she gave a standing ovation too.
Polina has a chronic back pain and atm she jumps and skates only to the point that her back allows her. Tarasova was commentating yesterday and she said something like "Fight Polya, there is no other way". She is no longer a junior girl with those stunning jumps and her delayed rotation bites her in the ass now. With all the changes she is in a transitional time and I only hope that she won't give up.
She suffers from a congenital bone disease, hence the injuries.
Emilia Skiba polinas mom said she has a hernia and a back injury, not a congenital disease. The girl needs to take a season off to completely resolve her back issues or else she won't be able to compete ever again
Yes, she suffers from Lumbar Hernia, but she also has Osteochondritis dissecans. I get her not wanting to take a year off, because that would be cutting the time she has left for being an athlete short.
Emilia Skiba I think competing like this isn't going to help her. She needs to fully recover from her injuries. There's nothing wrong w taking a season off. Russian athletes come and go and most do not have long careers because they compete w injuries making injuries worse. Satoko took a year off, Bradie took a year off and now they are both competing well. Polina needs to think about her long term career plans and not listen to Russian coaches who think athletes should all peak at 18 and never compete again
@@PtolemyXVII But that's the point. She will not have a long term career. Not because she's like other Russian skaters, but because of her own issues. She already had most of the last season off. I'm not saying I support her decision to skate on. I'm saying I can understand it.
You guys are fast. Going to watch now. By the way Dave and Jonathan I was disappointed with Bradie’s dress I loved her previous Juliet dress so much more 😂😇😘 she needs you guys help for styling so bad!!! And a new hair!!! Thank you so much ☺️ looove your vídeos as usual! 😘😘😘
PS: you guys are right about the NBC commentators they speak to much the Canadians are passive aggressive prefer the British Eurosport with Irish guy who is amazing or the Portuguese Eurosport when they cover events two wonderful ladies also.
Rose Savoy is the season
Jonathan about the final pose this was just in the rules. They need to hold a final pose for visible moment and then can fall to not receive a deduction. They didn’t hold the pose, so deduction was necessary.
Justyna Żółkiewska I understand, I just think the skater should always get the benefit of the doubt in those types of situations.
Jonathan Beyer right it’s just I think they probably would get it but seriously. They don’t hold the final pose even for a half of the second. They just feel out of it.
"They need a world class coach to really put them together." Truer words... but the problem here is that they need to LET said world-class coach help them. If they're not willing to work hard to get where they need to be, they'll never get there.
True but I don't think we should or could say Aliona is a word class coach. A great skater not necessarily makes a great coach.
I’m sure they worked hard with Aljona, really hard in fact. It sounds more like they didn’t seen eye to eye on something, perhaps related to program content. Hard to speculate as there is no info out there except for a few words from Aljona.
Alexa and Chris didn't get where they are because they won't be coached. They got this far and improved because they do in fact work hard. They worked through life threatening illness, through death of parent and shit we know nothing of. Alijona is a great skater but that doesn't mean she's a good coach. Who knows who bowed out but because A/C kept quiet people ASSUME they gave up. Alijona may not be ready or cut out for coaching. Maybe it's simply bad timing. Alijona as a new coach...maybe her ego got in the way.
But maybe Nathan wants to be a student more than a skater? He might be looking at his long term goals and what he wants to do in the future.
mish098aimer I don't think the Olympics is the end game. Nathan is smart. All he has to do is win endorsements, maybe get a few acting gigs, start his own company, graduate from Yale, and become a public role model. Many Olympic athletes do not go on to have great lives, there are too many athletes addicted to drugs or have no other interests. Nathan has many interests and his goal is probably to go beyond figure skating and doing ice shows. Medvedeva should also think similarly about her long term goals in the same way.
Evan Perilstein Well, you can always go back to figure skating later as well. Nathan probably wants the college experience and doesn't want to be 4+ years older than everyone else if he stops until next olympics are done. University is a time where a huge part of your personality develops into adulthood, and it's important to do that around people who are in the same stage in their lives. Or he might just value education more than figure skating, or both equally. But education is looking at your long term goals, a career to keep for the rest of your life, where as figure skating is just for a few years. And he might just be more passionate about it, I don't know him. But Nathan has expressed that he wants to go into medicine, and as a med student myself, I know a lot can change in 4 years. Demands for specialty, residency positions, and technology and innovation in different fields are always changing, so it's not always going to be there in 4 years. Also opportunities in research can change a lot. I'm not sure about in the states but in Canada, the competitiveness for med school and residency positions have rose over 5 times in the past decade; many who are qualified and talented can't get spots anymore. He's probably taking all this into consideration. In my opinion, if he's having a great experience in college and meeting many interesting profs ie. opportunities to do innovative work in the field, it'd be crazy to throw that away for "just" a change at an olympic medal, but I'm also much more passionate about education and medicine to help others than any sport. Maybe Nathan is that way too, or maybe not, but it's up to him.
USA Figure Skating and his sponcers will fight to the nail to have him stay on skating and fans will be so heartbroken too
Evan Perilstein You may know doctors who didn't practice until they were in their 40s, but the availability of specialties, residency spots, and the innovation changes with time. These things may not be in demand 4 years later. Also, you still have 5+ years of residency for many specialties, so you don't actually get to start your full career until that's finished. And then you'd of course want to work on your craft for as long as possible, as it's a lifetime's worth of development (and then the people after you). Most people would want to start their career earlier, as you have to practice for many years before you can even have enough practice and understanding to start innovative projects. Not everyone wants to be a do the same thing everyday type of family physician (nothing is wrong with that, though). For me, taking a year off wasn't even an option because I want to start practicing ASAP as I loved my experiences in the field and it's my greatest passion and definitely want to be an established physician (after residency) before I'm 40. And each year of my undergrad was very different in experiences, so I'm not sure what experience you've had. It's different for every individual, and in Nathan's case, he's going to have to go with what he is more passionate about and from his limited interviews, it sounds like he is loving college and med school is something he really wants in 4 years time. School is not for everyone, but there is nothing wrong with choosing that over figure skating, even if you're an elite skater.
he did well at the skate america, college really had change him alot , it nice that he is having college experience he wasen't in school for 6 or 7 years but the media will on to him this whole season if he can stay on top but I think at end year of the year he has to chooses
Waaa been refresh youtube for this and that!!! I been reading your tweeting for the whole skate america.
I love the back to back throws. They remind me of Gordeeva and Grinkov's Romeo and Juliet with the 2 throws at the end of the LP.
I had the same feeling about Aljona's and Alexa's unauthentic relationship. The split was the result noone could have been suprised by. Aljona will learn how to be good coach and Alexa and Chris should go back to Aljona. Being successful means to get through those problems.
Just remember Marin’s beetlejuice program. It was glorious and perfect for junior worlds. I can see losing your focus when you win junior worlds so clearly one year, then a young Russian wipes the floor with you a year later. She’s gotta get back to Japan I see a huge language barrier and too much sadness.
It doesnt matter where she lives because its her training habits that seems to be an issue. She needs to stick it out and have a different training mindset.
Agree about her getting back to Japan...i thought of Moa Asada when i saw her and raf this weekend....not sure this will work
she did say the language is hard but everything else is good. She likes that she can sleep at night feeling that she can try again tommorrow. It won't be a problem if it comes to a point that she wants to go back home, she has enough resources to do anything she wants to do.
Marin deserved to win her second JW and was clearly robbed. It was the judges that decided to privilege the russian robots
Penny for your thoughts on polish ice dance team. I know they are not relevant but I’m still curious.
Thank you for calling out the insipid and narcissistic "commentary" by Tara and Johnny. Their stick was fun for a while, but has descended into a puerile pit of self-congratulation and self-promotion. It's good to know I'm not the only one who feels this way. Why does no one rein them in?
The official ISU stream is not geo-blocked in the US, and it has no commentary and good quality. It was AMAZING!
lexi smith Where can we find this? Is it on the ISU website?
mackoCF445 it was Eurovision’s isu stream. The link was Eurovisionsports.tv/isu/single-pair-skating-ice-dance/live.html
I’m surprised it wasn’t geoblocked because it usually is. I hope it stays that way.
Great Video, Gents!
Few Things:
1.) Satoko Miyahara: She was amazing ! Every detail! If she can keep landing those jumps she's my World Champion. She's paid her dues. She's lost in previous seasons to lesser skaters. It's her time.
2.) Nathan Chen: He has selected his "style" with these programs. I'm on the fence about it, but it is distinct. Reminds me of a more aggressively sloppy Yan Han. Chen seems like he's a "gamer," the kind of competitor that maybe won't win practices but does the job under the lights (Re: Kim Zmeskal, Gabby Douglas). I don't think he can stay at Yale full-time. Completely unrealistic and a self-inflicted adverse circumstance. Someone should tell the truth: he really just wanted to put the entire country between him and his stage mom.
3.) Bradie Tennell: She is trying, and that's admirable; but something was off to my untrained eye. You two articulated it perfectly. I am intrigued to see if she will have had an epiphany by nationals/worlds.
4.) The Tara/Johnny Problem: great commentary on their commentary. I enjoy them in other arenas where their friendship and star power is the main attraction (that "Wedding Cake" show they did this summer). In skating, I wish they would call the action in real-time and be more technically driven whilst sprinkling in tidbits of their first-hand competitive experience. Because NBC has so much access, they can do their "schtick" in the fluffs or during the warm-ups.
5.) The Knierims: This dog just won't hunt. If I wanted to win medals in Pair Skating, I would've stayed with the woman who just stepped off the top step at the last 3 major international competitions Pair competitions (Grand Prix Finals, Olympics, Worlds)...Aliona! I'm officially done with them.
6.) Weekly Delusion: How about we pair Starr Andrews with Chris Knierim? I think they'd be exciting/interesting to watch. And maybe they could be a top team? Thoughts? Who would be the perfect fir for Starr in a Pair Skating world? Let's play this game! I'm excited.
I don’t get comparing Nathan to Yuzuru... at all
Honestly I find Tara and Johnny distracting and annoying. I love the isu commentary the ice skating is the central focus and I love the commentary. Ted Barton is Very nice..😬
Paula Dimicello Ted is a doll!
Harvey Girl he so is....very sweet man.
kleinegritzige lol yes! It's so annoying when they do that...I enjoyed watching skate Canada when there was no commentary and I could hear them talking in the kiss and cry!😬😬
I normally don't mind Johnny's commentary as much as some people do (although I think he'd be a lot better paired with someone else), but I have to agree that the commentary at this event was...not good. In particular, I thought the snarky comment he made ten seconds into Satoko's short program about the tech caller being Japanese was really uncalled for. Like, could we let her attempt even one jump before telling the viewers that if she gets a good score it's only because the tech panel is biased? And of course we never hear them complain when American skaters are helped out by friendly tech or judging panels.
I also had to laugh at them bringing out the same dusty talking points about Satoko: she just missed the podium at the Olympics, she's prone to UR, and did you know that she's such a hard worker that her coaches sometimes have to monitor her nutrition! If they'd done any current prep or research, they might have known that Satoko has spent the last few months working on her jumps with Ghislain Briand from TCC and that she's said that she's determined to do whatever it takes to improve her technique and fix her URs, and then they wouldn't have been sounding so surprised when her jumps looked better here.
Not gonna lie. I was in the audience and confused about Vincent’s score but I get it now, thanks for explaining. I hope he can correct his jump technique because he has so much potential.
Where can I view the interview where Alexa gave face to the breakup question? 😁🍿
NBC Sports Gold
Do we know who initiated the split? I’m guessing to some extent it was mutual, but I’m wondering who was first to say it can’t work. And are you trying to say that their arguments were over transitions? Because skaters change transitions all the time. We probably will never know the full story and as fans we don’t really need to know. It sounded like an amazing and promising thing two weeks ago and Alexa and Aljona were texting buddies and surely could work through some disagreements right? And then all of a sudden it was done. I can’t think of many, if any, instances of athletes stranded without a coach a week or so before a bigger event. Aside from that story, their skating is really progressing, they have obvious talent, and hopefully they will find the right coaching fit.
I agree with Nathan looking sloppy. I'm very annoyed at his posture. I find the slouching very juniorish. He needs to see that mean ballet teacher to work on his posture.
Also his free skate costume looks like a pajamas.
@mish098aimer really? It doesn't show in his skating :/
icedwhite mocha he’s been dancing since he was young. I think you see it more in the lower body than the upper body.
Liza Minnelli pajamas. . .
Everything Nathan does is for a reason. His costume matches his music and does it matter if you like it. His posture is fine, I haven't seen a single area where is posture was on purposely bad. Look it look like anyone cares that YOU think his posture is "annoying"? If you just want to criticize the world champion please keep it to yourself.
Satoko's SP is indeed quite stunning, it could get even better with a few more sustained accents here and there. Tango LP is a little blurred at the moment, but tasteful nonetheless. How she gets lower PCS than Junior Queen Zagitova is the real travesty. Hubbell/Donohue's skating skills totally eclipsed others in this competition. I think in terms of step construction and step execution, they are still showing steady progress. The R&J music could use some change in edits to delineate a clearer structure and helps the performance achieve a more complete arc. But I do think it looks better than at US Classics---details are coming out. They could still work on using to the fullest extent their hands and heads to accent or supplement the music emotionally and visually.
Thanks for calling out Tara and Johnny. Ted Barton is honestly my favorite commentator, did great on all the JGP’s!
What’s the scoop on Karen Chen this season? Where is she?
Bradie needs to go to Alissa's dressmaker. She needs someone who knows how to dress someone tall and lanky. And those flowy dresses would make her look more graceful.
god, wasn't that awful? I turned to my boyfriend and said "GOD that is AWFUL". LOL
LOL.
Such a shame they didn’t see the opportunity they had with Aliona. I was so excited for them especially with seeing the style of their programs. What coach would want to take them if they are not going to work?! Such a shame.
We don’t have the full story here. It sounds it might be more a disagreement about program content (ie do you change something or just work harder at it) and Aljona may have only wanted it to be done her way. I’m sure they were working hard, it seems like they were putting in long hours at the rink.
Accurate discussion about the Knierims and Cain/LeDuc. Tarasova/Morozov don't UR jumps unless maybe they miss the jump like they did here. It's different than C/L who land them with frequent URs. I've seen a couple people say that Aljona is extremely intense, and the concern was that she would expect the Knierims to train exactly as she did. And that's too bad because they look drastically better and were responding well to her. If this broke up over them wanting to change a couple transitions, that's just sad. I feel like they're on such a right track. Even if it's slow because of all the changes, it feels right. But they cannot coach themselves in Illinois. They deserve a lot better than that.
I think they should have given this more time - but it isn’t clear to me if it is Alexa (OMG- my Alexa is going apeshit and adding all kinds of crappy to my shopping list) or Aljona that gave up. I definitely think that Aljona being a new coach has a lot to do with both whatever happened and how it got “announced”. All that aside - I feel like the rest of the world is trying to catch up with how awful US Pairs are. Maybe we should let the pair do just 3 Grand Prix events so they can start later...... (1/2 joking).
comments about Johnny and Tara were spot on... I was getting so annoyed about the whole Vincent/Nathan "rivalry"... ugh.
I remember Mie Hamada was angry at Media for "pampering" Marin. Marin already got commercials, interviews, and now Japanese Airline is supporting her, so literally, she doesn't need to have the best results to get all that many other skaters needed at least a World Medal. Mao and Miki are different because they had a signature jumps like Triple Axel or a Quad, but I can't remember if Hanyu or Takahashi had any before they got a World or an Olympic Medal (yes, interviews, but I can't recall them getting as much as Marin). Ladies tend to get more attention naturally, and Marin got famous sister (actor) and Marin herself is already attractive... so it's like, why commit to it? It's really up to her.
I do wonder, if Marin keeps skating like this, how long her fame and big sponsors can ensure she gets 2 GPs. The Japanese ladies are already maxed out on GP spots, and there may be junior girls coming up who do well at junior worlds and beat Marin at nationals... But of course, I'd prefer to see her step up so I don't have to learn the answer!
@mish098aimer @NihonB
Honestly, I don't think JAL would let her go because it's like an agency firing one of the well known athlete. Although Kaori, Rika and Mai have better portfolio, the media is still chasing after Marin, not them (as much as her). I feel Marin needs to find good role model and a mentor. They don't come to you, you find them. Marin is used to people coming to her, so it may be a different kind of challenge. Unlike TSL, I felt this situation will come to her even before she became 2 times Jr. World Champ Medalist. I guess I knew more about the situation and her personality because I know Japanese. Even if she does work hard, no sport has promise so she may not end up in the place TSL wants anyway.
I agree. Popularity seems like its more personality based then just skating awards.
Will she keep the Lotte chocolate commercial that used to be Mao's? I haven't seen it yet this season.
@@RakuRadio I don't think Lotte will show the CM unless she gets winning results, though they still use her image on print. It's likely they will pass it on to Rika if she keeps being golden and the market response is strong. If her marketability doesn't increase even with the results, they can always stick to Yuzu.
I wanna hear what Johnny has to say about Yuzu's sp this season though..lol!
Bless Yuzu nevertheless.. I love him, I hope he does well..
He tweeted about it
Marin told the media her ankle felt "strange" from the morning practice and then it hurt after her first fall. I... don't want to say that I don't believe her. I bet that fall really hurt! It's just the way she said it, in Japanese felt a bit... hmm. With any other Japanese lady, I'd immediately take it at face value, but Marin tends to work the media a bit more. I'd just say that when the immediate short articles came up about the results, it was kind of "Satoko and Kaori double podium! Honda only 8th." But by the evening, there were sympathetic headlines about Marin's tears and her injured ankle... but still nothing specific about an actual injury. But if it's really something serious, I hope she gets better soon! She really does have so much potential.
Rewatching Tarasova and Morozov. I thought they looked really great in the long. Not perfect. What color should she dye her hair? I've been wondering all afternoon. Not red. Darker maybe. But I thougth she looked good? Cain and Leduc look good but they are so so similar in size it's distracting for me.
Agree, I thought I was the only one distracted by the fact that they're almost the same size. Not well matched.
Does Jonathan ever disagree with Dave? Very catty comment regarding Jimmy Ma. He's doing his own thing and being authentic. Skating to pop music gets attention and brings new fans to the sport- no need to be a snob about it and put him down.
Aliona is considered to be fanatic even in Russia. I think as a coach she should be even tougher then Eteri. Was Knierims ready for such a thing?
So it was their initiative to split up? Sad, everyone noticed they had improved so much with her. I wish Medvedeva would show such vivid improvement under Orser's supervision.
I think Aljona may have initiated the split. The Knierims were excited about being there and learning from her. But Aljona is a brand new coach and needed to adapt her methods somewhat to suit their needs. There isn't one perfect way of doing everything, and not every person can be coached the same. She had already helped them a lot, so it's sad to see this.
Finally,～I agree with every word you said about Tara/Johnny
I disagree with what you are saying about Vincent and artistry. He is on his way and he will be fine artistically. I am more concerned about his injuries and his ability to play the technical. One thing that is hard to gauge on tv is speed. How is vincent's speed?
I do think he is getting better but still has a ways to go. I really think he needs a coaching change.
Anyone ever stop to think that with Gracie and with Alexa('circus coming to town') and a lesser extent Nathan, that maybe you stop and ask them what they want and what they feel? Seems like all things ever are is telling them what they need to do or how they need to be. Instead of talking with them it's always talking at them. Just my two cents.
Amen.
Belinda Noonan is the Australian commentator :)
Tarasova and Morozov's lifts look a bit scary in the second half to me. I think they have a stamina issue at times (not enough run throughs???) and their lift positions might be difficult but not always pretty.
Yeah occasionally they'll have a lift issue. As for the positions, pairs do what they have to do to get the levels and outdo the other pairs in terms of intricacy, position changes, etc. There are simpler positions that may be prettier but won't get the points.
Ok the comment about no transition into throw means you can't get more than a +3 surprised me so went and looked. That's actually incorrect. The mandatory three bullet points are 1. Good height and distance. 2. Good control and flow on release and landing. 3. Effortless. So yes you can get a +5 without a transition in by having the three mandatory bullet points and then 5. Very good air position and 6. Matched music. The 4. Entry bullet point isn't mandatory.
Ben Bailey it is something that has been communicated to the skaters and was communicated to the American skaters at pair camp.
@@TheSkatingLesson oh right. I thought it was odd when you were talking about it so went and looked at the rules thinkink it must be one of the mandatory ●. So basically the ISU just decided and told people by world of mouth? Lol
Ben Bailey They do seem to issue guidelines and suggestions for pairs and ice dance after the rules come out. It may be due to there being far fewer participants than in singles.
I can't find it. What is BDE?
Big D**k Energy
I understand where you are coming from Dave, but how on earth can you react as if this is so surprising to you? NBC hired Johnny & Tara to be Johnny & Tara. Or did we all not watch the same NBC Broadcast from Pyeongchang? They got to do the closing ceremony for the very fact that they made almost as many headlines for their outfits and commentary as the actual skating itself. Tells me that NBC is not catering to die hard skating fans, but layman that really don't pay much to any attention outside of the Olympics. The vast decline of skating in the US IMHO is why NBC love Johnny & Tara, may be obnoxious, annoying, and less informative at times, but NBC obviously cares about putting on a show and they don't think the skating itself can deliver that. For better or worse, Johnny & Tara are here to stay.
If I could make emojis out of you all's expressions my social networking communication would be complete
The bald guy 😂...Aliona's coach is Alexander Koenig...maybe used to skate with Peggy Schwartz for Germany ????
Linda Allison thank you!
Yes - he won a bronze with her in the early 80's- worlds l think? He is a technical expert for juniors in Germany.
My best friend Mia and I love nothing in this world more than people watching. We have an astute instinct about strangers that has never proved untrue. There is a very specific group of people that we call “blobs”, and the best way to describe a blob is someone that can’t maneuver their way to the front of a concert despite many openings. You can spot them if you try.
Bradie is a blob. Thank you for your time.
What about Julian Yee’s 4S in the short!!! He didn’t have a great long but the short was near perfect. Plus it’s his first GP and the first Malaysian skater in a GP
Emma Brook I think you just told us!
I'm not coming over to Satoko's programs and she's my favorite lady! Just snooze!
TB disagree!
@@TheSkatingLesson The long could grow on me, even though I'm the "no tango unless you're an ice dancer" girl. I just hate that Sparrow music. Boring elevator claptrap. We go from The Planets and Puccini to this blah? Satoko doesn't look into it either. Not like she has in the past.
But she's always amazing. Still love her.
If i were professor Charles Xavier, I’d be looking in Alexa’s brain for the new panic which would be “ oh shit... we left too soon and should
Have saw it through”...
Thank you, really enjoyed this episode! I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't enjoy the NBC commentary. It's snarky and too conversational, and sometimes not even about the skater or his/her skating. The NBC commentary should not be centered on Tara or Johnny as individuals. I find Johnny's commentary more insightful and informative, but yes, they do have a set narrative that is often forced into a tight time frame. I do not enjoy Tara's commentary. It's borderline offensive when she says skaters "struggle" with this and that. She's confident, sure. But nothing else. It's not unique or insightful. I miss Dick Button's commentary.
Marina is officially in Florida? What.....?
Catherine Maltman yes. She relocated there to teach and live. She seems to not be coaching as much at the moment.
When did this happen? I swear she was coaching in Michigan in September. Do we know where in Florida she is teaching now?
@@TheSkatingLesson why would she go to florida?
eyesthere Semi retirement.
The tangled up headphone cord is killing me. I just want to grab it and undo the knot
K L you’re welcome to!
Van Gogh vs Thomas Kincaid...brilliant.
Of course Tara doesn't now what an underrotated jump looks like. I mean her 2.5Lo+2.5Lo was her signature
I wonder if being in college takes pressure of Nathan Chen, so he has a backup if he doesn't medal at worlds.
Dave, did I imagine you said a skater had BDE? I googled and think I must've got the wrong end of the stick.
I definitely did NOT say it!