Question Time Stamps for Quick Reference: 0:00 - Intro 1. 0:18 {A Biblical View of Immigration} What are some biblical thoughts surrounding the political issue of immigration? 2. 49:40 {Confessing Your Faith when Difficult} I'm a 30 y/o woman in SoCal, financially dependent on my Muslim parents. I've studied for years and I’m now feeling called to Christ. I fear being kicked out. Any advice on how to tell them I'm Christian? 3. 52:03 {Eternal Begottenness?} Should we hold to eternal begottenness of the Son which seems to suggest that the Son was caused? It seems orthodox, but wrong to say of God. 4. 56:13 {When Discipline turns to Drudgery} William Booth says, “We ought not consult feelings but do our duty.” How does that not then become drudgery? How do we be disciplined like Daniel, yet not mechanical? 5. 58:11 {Hosting Sinners in our Homes} Is 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 only for corporate gatherings or also for private gatherings such as family meals, etc.? Should Christians host professing Christian family members who are living in unrepentant sin? 6. 1:03:00 {Overcoming Difficult Addictions} I’ve tried SO many times trying to quit vaping. I’m starting to feel like a bad Christian. Any advice? 7. 1:04:51 {Contemplative Prayer} I'm curious about contemplative and listening prayer practices promoted in my church. Are they rooted in or influenced by Eastern mysticism or New Age ideologies? 8. 1:08:01 {Why Didn’t God Forbid Polygamy?} If verses like Exodus 21: 10 aren't supporting polygamy but protecting women in a bad situation, why didn't God just outlaw polygamy outright? I agree with you, but don't know how to counter this argument. 9. 1:13:10 {Obeying our Conscience} Is Romans 14: 23 about emotional doubt or intellectual doubt? For example, I'm mentally convinced that ham is OK to eat but I still doubt it emotionally. Which is my conscience to obey? 10. 1:17:21 {What is a Heart of Flesh?} What does giving us a heart of flesh mean, when flesh is usually negative?
Well. It’s been 2 weeks. However. Are you familiar with Larry Alex Taunton? He is a Christian who has spent time south of our border among those attempting to come to the US. He is a very compassionate person who has given food, water, and money to some of them. He speaks about all the dangers that they face and has been through part of the Darin Gap. And yet. He is adamant about our border being closed. For the protection of those coming to the US. And also for the protection of US citizens. There are, i think, at least 3 videos of him south of our border. I have a daughter-in-law who is a police officer in Northern California. They had a raid on a construction site that was using illegals at their job sites. These men were made to live and work where their were told. And of course their wages were ….. slave labor (?) wages. But i wish that all who have watched your video would see the videos from Larry Alex Taunton and his time spent south of the border.
@@leib109 Yes, and there are also many who are exploiting our fears and our divisions for political purposes too. And the immigrants who are being exploited for financial gain. God bless, D
I would love examples of this. All I see is people lying about migrants committing more crimes (they statistically commit less) and lie about them eating pets (an absolute bold face lie).
And some of those people are our pastors, warning us against being “too political” while packaging their partisan stance as “love your neighbor.” Sure, love the ones who are breaking the law. But, the people suffering from a rise in crime and being forced out of housing in favor of “immigrants?” Ignore those neighbors. They’re probably just racist.
It's quite maddening to be aware of all that is (and has been, for quite some time) going on and yet find yourself surrounded by people who are either indifferent to it or actively cheering it on as a good thing. You ask yourself just what the hell has to happen for some people to finally open their eyes?
Immigration lawyer and a Christian here. Biblically, it makes sense that we would prioritize our people in the country first rather than foreigners. 1 Tim 5:8 (interesting that this could be applied logically from the family to nation). Regarding this topic though, legally asylum seekers are NOT eligible for federal, public benefits. Some states can make changes to their state benefits, but federally only people who win their asylum case are then eligible for public benefits (food stamps, cash aid, etc.). Regarding feeding, asylum seekers are NOT eligible for food stamps. Asylees who win asylum are. Asylees are lawful immigrants. Asylum seekers have their cases pending. Letting everyone and anyone come in. Not correct. Do a lot come in? Yes. Very interesting, objective, and Biblical video. I'll have to comment more later.
Hear me out: as super great as this is, and I'm thankful, how cool could this have been if it had Mike, bringing what the Bible tells us, you, Mr. Martinez, to help us sort through and better understand what our current laws are and how they're being circumvented. Having a third, a BP agent to share what he really sees would greatly add to the mission we should all be on. Our nation is in a mindset of righting the wrong, truth and transparency. Mike's PC is fantastic, he need not change a thing.. I'm just throwing out an idea that could likely have every Christian with access watching it - since so many struggle with where to stand on the topic. Bonus - Mayorkas has to sit in the corner and watch - or be asked a few questions under a bright lamp location. It would be long-form, like Rogan (,or like. my reply 😅) but people are loving these. After the Twitter files came out all of America learned we're not only having our government lie lie and live, they suppress into we should have then create their own narrative that our tax dollars pay you. We are awake and we're here for long interviews. Just a thought 😊
FEMA manages a ~$500+ million program for “asylum seekers” to receive benefits; the dollar amount is much likely higher than that, but it’s impossible to know because of govt deception masked as incompetence. It’s also important to point out that the vast majority of “asylum seekers” don’t meet the requirements to seek asylum but have been put in that category anyways by this Administration rather than simply put on a plane and flown back to their country of origin.
So true. My country has signed the international refugee law but still only less than 3% get accepted as legal refugees and until then they receive no government state benefits. Developed countries cannot function without migrant workers (ask the farmers or factory owners) and we act like they are taking us over…
@@annabelle7123 my roommate is from Haiti, got here with a work for Amazon. $20 dollars, 40 hours a week. Do you know any American that want it that work? I certainly do. But guess what? The government is doing deals behind our backs. IMHO, sooner or later we are going to pay for this irresponsibility. Because he is not here for one year yet, but his girlfriend is already pregnant. What a surprise?! I hope I am wrong, because they don't tell the whole story.
I’m not trying to argue, but illegal immigrants get food stamps, Medicaid, all of that. How do I know? I work in health care. They show you their EBT cards, their Medicaid cards, all of it. These are not “asylum seekers” either. These are people who have entered the country illegally.
Loved how you clarified the balance between compassion and community values. It really hit me when you showed that biblical compassion isn’t about ignoring boundaries but respecting them-welcoming sojourners without losing the integrity of the community. Maybe that’s a message today’s church needs: compassion that invites, yet also values responsible boundaries. Thanks for tackling this so thoughtfully!
I mean we should treat our immigrants well. My issue is that we have laws for this already. We dont have to be abusive, but if people break our laws, thats not ok. We have migration laws, and while they need to be streamlined, we must require migrants to follow them. Its not just to allow people to just come here and get the citizen treatment while others who are legally trying to enter get shafted.
Yes. No nation would stand if they have complete open borders, especially if that nation is to prop everyone up with money and affirmative action in jobs. We have a legal way to get here it's not like we are just keeping all from here but we shouldn't allow unfettered access when we know that there is human trafficking taking place and ppl who will murder and bring drugs here aswell. A lot of immigrants would be a net positive on our nation but they must be vetted.
Let’s hope this administration doesn’t use rhetoric that generalizes certain groups of people this 2nd time around. Leading to mistreatment of foreigners.
@@keithgarcia6054 The last time we looked at groups that were high in terrorists and made them go through extra vetting. The huge problem here is that when you’re dealing with millions on a daily basis it becomes ridiculous to comb through each individual’s situation. You have to start somewhere, and probability narrows down focus.
@@keithgarcia6054 The fact of the matter is that the ppl who come here through the southern border ARE criminals and invaders. That is not hyperbole. The ppl who come here are military aged men who only seek to prey on the country without contributing anything to it.
Hey Mike, I just want to say I’m about 24 minutes into the video and I’ve heard you say you know people will watch this and disagree or possibly get upset. However, that’s not my case. I want to say thank you for making this video at all because I know many Christians haven’t. Many who discuss this topic don’t do it from a Christian worldview and do not ultimately desire to seek and learn what Scripture really says even if it challenges our views. I am Latina and my parents came here legally but my church is filled with brothers and sisters in Christ who did not. This has been weighing on my heart lately. I want to say thank you because you did for me what I couldn’t … you looked at Scripture and presented me with God’s Word on the topic. I wanted to do this but didn’t believe I could do it objectively without being overly compassionate or hypercritical and hurt. So thank you for doing some of the heavy lifting for me as God renews my mind and transforms my heart about this very contentious issue.
You aren't saved by doctrine, you're saved by a relationship with God. If you can't go to Him yourself and read the Bible yourself, you have a GIGANTIC problem. You might be heading to Hell. You should pursue a relationship with God. From your comment it didn't sound like you really believe God is even real. If God is real, and you are saved, approach like a child. You can't rely on human men to do that for you. And there's no such thing as "over compassionate". It sure sounds like you were worried that you feel "more compassionate than God", potentially. You thought the Bible might upset you so you didn't even read it. Your church sounds like a den of criminals, and you don't seem to know or love or trust God. With all due respect. If they are truly Christians why are they living illegally in a foreign country? With all due respect. That's not morally acceptable of them to do. I understand you love them. But they're criminals and they really shouldn't be here. I pray they all get deported. There's nothing cruel or wrong about that. They invaded my Home. I pray they leave. They could have come legally. They chose to come illegally. I pray they all leave. They should not be here.
Mike admitted that he does not know enough about immigrations nor the laws that commit American to certain types of immigration, so i would listen and take with a grain of salt
@@dominikoluwole1948. But there is a man, Larry Alex Taunton, who does know quite a bit about the “immigrants”. He has spent time, with them, south of our border. He has deep compassion for them and has given them food, water, and money while spending time with them, south of our border. He is very well aware of the all the different dangers that they face in their attempts at coming to America. He has even spent time in part of the Darin Gap. And yet. He is calling for a closer of our border. In part for the safety of those coming here. And also for the safety of US citizens. Have you spent time south of the border?
Major respect (as always) to you Mike for approaching every topic with a blank slate and allowing scripture to lead you where it may. This teaching has forced me to re-evaluate my stance. Please pray that my heart would be opened to what God's word says and not what I want it to say. Keep up the great work, and take heart in knowing your teaching is appreciated everywhere.
Great job @ Mike wingerFor my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD. “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways.
While it's not a one to one comparison, it is a very wise principle. If we can't take care of our veterans and our own poor. If we can't protect our citizens from the influx of drugs and crime. Then how can one trust those in authority? There are many legal refugee programs that are in place. I currently sponsor Ukrainian refugees under a government program called Uniting for Ukraine. It requires a lot of documentation and personal resources, but it was something God called me to do. I doubt our government prayerfully considers what should and should not be done.
@@ChanningChea For real... we live in a first world country and people are screaming "Mass Deportations Now..." when we aren't starving. It is just an excuse for them to worship a fascist and put a "God approves" stamp on it... instead of sharing out of our abundance.
@@ChanningCheaif the immigration policy puts my family’s safety at risk, I’m failing my duties as the head of my home. Think of the country as an extension of your home, you regularly invite people in, have guests, even temporarily house people, but all these people are vetted and legally in your house with your approval. If you leave your doors and windows wide open and make it known that anyone can enter your house at will and you won’t do anything about it, you have failed to provide any level of safety for your family. As you are responsible for your home, in the same way you are responsible for the extensions of your home, being your town, your state and your country.
There is no passage about taking care of your family FIRST. There is a passage about caring for your household (which likely means more than immediate family). Also, we have to look at what Jesus says about family in Matthew 12:46-50, specifically 49-50 "Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”
The issues we face on immigration are difficult. But we need to lay out the questions rather than jumping to doing good or protecting people. It's complicated by the fact we don't have a Church capable of actually communicating at length, and a government divided and blind. How can we help people who need it? How do we stop criminals? How can we bring them into the faith? How can we foster a love in them for what God has given them, and deter hatred?
Thank you for helping us think biblically about everything, especially the gritty topics of our day. Your ministry has been such a blessing to me and my family. I’m praying for you and your wife and your ministry.
Thank you, pastor Mike! I just recently led a Bible study on the immigration topic at my local church a few weeks ago and it was a real encouragement to hear you concurring with many of my points and making some of your own which I had never considered, such as the point about Nehemiah. The central point of emphasis for me was that there is a sharp divide between the way we treat individual people versus the type of policies we advocate as those who are called to steward our civic duties which God has blessed us with. In other words, just because someone is here illegally does not give us license not to love them. We must guard our hearts from becoming hard and calloused towards people, regardless of whether or not they have a right to be here. There are no exceptions to the people we are called to love. If I see an illegal immigrant who is injured and dying, and I refuse to help him... I have failed my duty as a Christian. (ie the good Samaritan; we should not be playing the lawyer and asking "but who is my neighbor" in order to get away with things) That being said, I concur with just about every point you made. I would probably clarify that while I don't think it's necessarily right to demand that someone be a Christian in order to immigrate per se, I think cultural or spiritual differences are a definite point of consideration as to the negative effect which someone could have on our nation and people. The easiest example to give would be the muslim world. We can see right now the effect that mass muslim migration has had on the culture of the UK, and Islam will soon be their majority religion. We don't want that here, and I think that it's right to protect our people from that type of influence. I believe what you pointed out in your ending summary about the exclusion of particular nations like the Moabites or so forth was in keeping with this principle, and it sounds like you essentially agree, if I am understanding you right. The USA is not strictly a Christian nation, but her prosperity and blessing is largely due to many of the Christian principles upon which she was built, and we should expect a standard of assimilation to be in keeping with those principles. That is my conviction of how we let scripture inform the issue. Also, I have not heard Acts 17:26 used in the way you suggested, which is that it categorically rejects the idea of immigration whole-sale. I believe you that some may use it that way, but I've just not heard that. I DO understand it personally, though, to be relevant to this issue in that it seems pretty clearly to identify God as establishing the borders of nations throughout different times in history, in the same way that the Lord establishes kings. That's not to say that borders are sacred and can never change, but at the very least I think it provides ample support for the idea that we can not wipe out borders completely, and should respect them as law-abiding citizens. Do you disagree with that use of the passage? On that same note, one theme in scripture which I found relevant to the issue and you did not interact with was the many references in the law to violation of property lines by moving boundary markers: 📖 Proverbs 22:28, 23:10; Deuteronomy 19:14, 27:17; Job 24:2; Hosea 5:10. 📖 I am aware that these are not about national borders, but I also see this as a principle which is relevant to the issue, and I am curious if you would disagree with my application here. Even though it's referring to private property boundaries, the principle is that someone covets something on the other side of an established boundary, and so he violates that boundary in order to take what his neighbor has. All in all, I thoroughly appreciated your treatment of the topic and I'm thankful you took the time to interact with something that is undoubtedly a super difficult topic for a lot of Christians. Have you heard of Allie Beth Stuckey's new book "Toxic Empathy"? She talks about the misappropriation of love which you were articulating here. Grace and peace, brother.
I really like your approach to take a stance on political issues if they interfere with what we are believing. Be bold and tell them to take responsibility.
I’m glad you brought up the point that we are to take care of a brother first. I’ve been vocal about giving free things like food and clothes thinking that will cause them to become saved. I have witnessed the failure of this thought process in being a missionary to the Philippines. As soon as a new missionary comes along with a bigger financial backing and has more to offer, the people we were witnessing to left us for them.
@@krakoosh1 I don't understand how you are using the word “brother” in your comment. Are you saying instead of using your resources to serve those in need in the community, instead you should have used your resources to assist the brothers in your local church?
@@krakoosh1 Clearly? Just like you “clearly” believed giving food and clothing to people would result in their salvation. Almost as if you offered a bribe to compel them to accept Jesus as their savior. What part of the gospel instructs us to do that in an effort to make disciples? Matthew 28:19, 20 Do you really want to present yourself as someone who can’t have the wrong perception or perspective on something?
I recently broke my hip and went from hospital to rehab facility. All of the workers there were immigrants from other countries. People born here do not want to change the diapers of an elderly woman with a broken hip who is temporarily incontinent. This was a very upscale facility.
Thank God for all these workers, wherever they are, wherever they came from 🙏 . Thankyou to you if you are one of them, who treats the elderly with compassion & respect. Some will say that they are getting paid to do it, but for those who do their job with a smile on their face & seeking to maintain the patient's dignity - that is priceless. THANKYOU.
Thank you for talking about this. I've been trying to talk about this for months but you either have to be in one camp or the other. Always appreciate your videos, Mike!
Hi Mike, Maybe look into the writings of retired pastor Patrick Kahne. He has a couple books he has written and among other topics, goes into immigration from a biblical perspective. He also has a youtube channel. Thanks for addressing issues that effect a lot of us. Hearing your thoughts on many topics helps me consider things from a different view point. Some of those views I am not in agreement with, but the fact that you consistently respect other people and are never verbally abusive to those who are questioning or are in disagreement with you is refreshing and appreciated. 👍🏻👍🏻
It's Kahnke and I agree that he's a good person to listen to. However, I have seen Mike say things that have made me lose respect for him. People disagree and unsubscribe and Mike tells them they are causing the division and that he would never do something like that to them. I would not say that he consistently respects other people unfortunately, although that is a view I held about him for a while until recently.
Post the full quotes friend. Otherwise, this is rhetorical distortion coming from offense. It’s not divisive to disagree with me. Nor is it divisive to disagree with you. It is divisive to decide that if someone doesn’t hold your political conclusions, you will write them off for the rest of your life. I don’t care how many subscribers I have, I care that the church is not behaving this way. It’s unhealthy for all of us.
@@maxspringer01 I have never seen him say anything disrespectful. Saying someone is wrong is not disrespectful. He always tries to use the Bible come to conclusions. He does have to deal with a lot of trolls.
@@MikeWinger EDIT TO ADD: I found the full quotes and am posting them in this thread. EDIT #2: the quotes I posted won't show up, what a surprise. I'm editing this comment to add them to the end of this comment. It's buried somewhere in the literal thousands of comments you've gotten over the last week. People can definitely choose to unsubscribe and not listen to you for sound viewpoints anymore if you've taken an unsound approach. I absolutely do agree that you have the right to say your viewpoint, and you absolutely have the right to choose a side and disagree with a given party, no argument there. But the way you went about it, as well as your writing off true statements about the guy who has caused all this division in the first place as simply "seems like false information" was also wrong. I am well used to the detailed and nuanced approach you normally take on difficult topics, and you did not take that approach here. I have commented elsewhere that if you had been as honest and detailed about the problems with the Republican candidate/side as you were free to speak about the Democrat side, I wouldn't have had nearly the problem I have. Your comments and your approach are what made it unhealthy. Christians like me have been in absolute stomach knots over who to vote for this election because, unequivocally, neither side is the Christian side, and neither side aligns with Christian or biblical principles. The truth of the matter is that both sides have elements that directly war against biblical principles and also have elements that align with them. That is the truth, and yet the amount of Christian leaders like you who will say it like that are next to none. Instead they make statements like "I don't see how anyone can be a Christian and vote Democrat" while acting like the very real anti-biblical disqualifications of the other side are "false information"? From someone as weighty as you, like it or not, the message is a hairs breadth away from "you are not really saved if you vote Democrat". Of the two major parties, there absolutely was not a "Christian" side, not even close. Brother, I was born and raised in a Christian cult and was taught lies and a false biblical worldview for decades of my life. Now that I've left, what is true matters to me more than anything. This is the source of my passion. You were one of the few Christian leaders that helped get my head screwed on straight after leaving the cult because you cared about what was biblically true and accurate. I'm only asking that you take the same care here. ======= Here are the quotes you asked for. This is from your "Community" post that begins "My Christian commitments..." conner8160: How can trump be better than harris morally? The man was convicted of rape. He was pals with Jeffrey epstein and we have courtroom testimony that trump liked to engage in awful things with minors. He name calls his enemies has said he wants to jail journalists and democrats who don't align with him. Trump os one of the most immoral politicians in the United States right now. How can you evangelical types go and basically throw your morals out of the window because of maybe like what one or two issues? I.thought better of you Mike. But this is gross dawg. MikeWinger: If I believed what you believe about him I may feel the same way. Imagine for a moment that what you’ve heard has been deliberately exaggerated and misleading propaganda that was meant to influence your vote. If so, it appears to have worked. Am I saying he’s a great guy, or even a good man? No. But the stuff you’re saying seems very much like false information. Consider the fact that for four years he was president and didn’t jail any journalists, but Kamala Harris did persecute a specific journalist who was doing investigative journalism into Planned Parenthood, one of her major donors. Seek out the other side of the story conner8160: im just going to unsub from you. Have a good rest of your life. I'll pray that God restores your sanity. MikeWinger: ok. But let’s not pretend that I’m the one causing division here. You can write me off over this disagreement but I’d never do that to you.
The practical application is the priority of our fellow citizens... Of the nation that actually matters - the global Kingdom of God. We tend to our household first, yes. But, given how vocal the Bible is about Christians being a part of a common people and nation united in Christ, how can a Christian extrapolate from that that your secular co-nationals take the next priority over brothers and sisters across borders?
I think this all or nothing approach to immigration is terrible. We keep falling into one extreme or the other. Is there not a way to start new policies, securing the border and improving immigration, while offering a path to citizenship and all of the responsibilities associated with it, while at the same time deporting the immigrants who have committed crimes either in this country or their former country? I think that treats everyone fairly, prevents us from having such a chaotic influx of new immigrants, keeps those who have immigrated illegally accountable to become legal residents and not get paid under the table and ruin our economy while also holding criminals accountable for their crimes? Doesn’t seem that hard to me, maybe I’m just naive?
Thats what Reagan did, gave amnesty to quite a few illegal immigrants and put them at the back of the line for citizenship. The upcoming administration will have no interest in something like this unfortunately.
As an immigrant, I agree! Definitely doesn't have to be all or nothing. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like politicians want to find a proper solution. I guess the extreme rhetoric is best when it comes to getting votes (even though it ends up hurting everyone in the end).
Nothing new needs to be done. Enforce the laws on the books would be all that is necessary. We used to vet those who wanted to come in and make sure they go through the entire process.
Mike, thank you so much for this teaching on immigration. I have always wrestled with this topic and could never fully agree with either political side. Thank you for helping me think biblically about such a politically charged topic.
Mike your advice for the comment about vain has been a blessing to me. I don't struggle with vaping but I do struggle with a habitual sexual sin. It can be very discouraging and it's easy to self-condemn. But your advice has helped to lift me up. I cannot give up. Christ has redeemed me and there is forgiveness at the cross. I'll keep going. Thanks so much for your words 🙏🏾
Romans 13 says to submit to the government. Our nation has a border and laws regarding legal immigration. We can have empathy for foreigners while also supporting the laws of our land. In the same way we can have compassion for you and that you are running late to work but we also know that it is just for you to get a ticket for going 20 over the speed limit.
Adding to that point, the commands to show compassion are primarily directed at individuals. Commands given to government even in the OT are primarily to rule justly and not show favor to either the rich or poor, not to oppress the poor, to punish evil, and to protect the lives and property of individuals from anyone (citizen or not) who would take that life or property. I am not implying that immigrants are any more prone to crime than citizens, as we all were of the kingdom of darkness, and only by God's grace can receive His sacrifical offer and be transferred to the kingdom of light.
Hi Mike once again from South Africa. I appreciate you spending the time to go through your Biblical understanding of immigration, which I support. I must confess that my comments of 9 days ago to your initial discussion regarding the election was due to my surprise ( and probably disappointment) in your comments then on immigration. That is, using an extreme left point of view for " unfettered immigration" as the " Democratic way", especially when the " Democratics" supported the Republican bipartisan bill for greater control at the border and that this was not passed due, as I understand it, to Trump's instruction to the Republicans who control the House. Thank you for clarifying this balanced Biblical approach. I pray for the USA during this next 4 year period that true Christian values and positions are enhanced and not eroded. God's blessings.
Immigration from a Christian perspective is a really big subject that needs to be discussed in this manner, good job and thanks for having the nerve to address it in a respectful manner.
Thank you so much Pastor Mike. We should treat immigrants like Jesus is an immigrant Matt 25: 41 - 45, not saying we should let them abuse the laws and open borders but we need to fund more border patrol agents and get so many cases reviewed in a timely manner. We should have compassion and empathy for families fleeing danger and not lock them in cages and starve them.
Hey Mike! I love your content and have been following you for years. Thanks so much for seeking always to be careful and thoughtful with things. I felt in listening to this review though that it may be unfair in comparing Israel’s laws to another nation. Since they were supposed to be a people set apart and holy to be light to the nations. I wonder if some of those laws and historical decisions from God were aimed more at setting Israel apart and less about being guidelines for other nations. Would love to know your thoughts!
I did check 'sojourner' in the Webster's Third New International Dictionary. A guest or lodger. And a 'sojourn' is a temporary stay in as of a traveler in a foreign country, or to stay as a temporary resident.
Strong's Concordance: Citizen/Countryman Greek:Ach ..... Legal Immigrant/Sojourner/Stranger is Ger/Toshab/Gare: a Guest,Temporary Inhabitant...... Foreigner/Illegal Immigrant is Nokri/Zar 'When a Stranger (Legal Immigrant) resides with you in your land, you shall not oppress the Stranger. The Stranger who resides with you shall be to you as the Citizen among you.” (Leviticus 19:33)
Before I watch. My stance is as Followers of Christ we do have an obligation to help people and limit human suffering. BUT I don't believe the way to do that is to just move the suffering here instead and in the process, put an incredible and extreme burden on everyone already here. I'm willing to change my mind as i watch this.
Thank you for this word, Mike. I struggle with the idea of deportation that has been brought to the forefront. I would love to hear your take on the church not doing their part in taking care of the poor and the orphaned so the government has replaced it, and now we rebel against the government doing it.
About an immigrant becoming legal I think the pastor of the church should address the family and ask about their papers. It wouldn't be right just because you are not required to denounce by law , to look to the side and turn a blind eye. It is no so difficult. It should be a policy of the church to help the family get their papers giving them guidance but not paying the price. The church can help them in several other ways, legal advice, etc. It would be wrong if you never mentioned the issue to the family or to the church. Speak openly about it and have a written statement about the issue. Some guidelines.
@@claudiaperfetti7694 I wonder too about repentance, do they show repentance about having broken the law? Does the church guide through that? What would full and complete repentance look like?
@@garlandofbooks4494 is illegally immigrating always wrong? Sometimes might responsibility to protect, provide, and care for one's family trump that? For an extreme example, consider all the Jews who tried to get out of Germany when Hitler rose to power but who were forced to return to Germany by America and by other countries who were unwilling to admit them. Many people died because of that. Again, very extreme example, but many illegal immigrants come from extreme circumstances which is why they're willing to take that risk. And I think that's 100% justified.
Thank you! A few comments from a non-American Christian on the immigration issue. I agree with a lot of what you said, but do have some comments. 1. We are citizens of heaven. That is our first and foremost identity. In this world we as believers are all strangers and aliens, we are the sojourners, we are living in exile similar to Daniel, Nehemia and Esra in the OT. We are to seek the best for the community we live in and pray for it to God, at the same time we shouldn't conform to the world. We are ambassadors of the Kingdom. As you said, there is no ethnic people of God, besides Israel. I think as Christians, heaven is always our first identity. Out of that, we should live for the good of our earthly country, but sometimes maybe, we should look at issues more from an outside perspective. 2. While I do think that every country has a God-given right to decide who can come in, wouldn't it be more appropriate to apply the instructions of the OT to the church instead to modern countries? I think the reason for the OT forbidding mingling with other peoples was always the danger of idolatry. Israel should remain pure and committed to the covenant with God, which is true for the church. And if Israel had followed God's command to the letter, King David could not have been part of the assembly of God's people - his great-grandmother was a Moabite (Ruth)! 3. I am wondering how an American can talk about this, without mentioning the mass migration (to use your expression) of Europeans to North America between 1492 and the early 20th century. There is no way to turn back the wheel and I don't think we can right all wrongs from past centuries and millennia. But we can't ignore our own history when talking about the present. But those Americans who understand Acts 17:26 as a command that needs to be obeyed, should definitely very quickly move back to Europe... 4. But then the same verse also talks about "allotted periods". Empires come and go, peoples move back and forth. In my view, that verse is descriptive of what is happening and makes clear that all of that happens in the end according to God's purposes. And verse 27 shows what God's purpose is in this: "that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him". I see the migration of hundreds of thousands of Afghans to Europe as God's way of giving his church the opportunity here to reach them with the Gospel, while it is so hard to do that in their home country. With past generations of Muslim immigrants, we have often ignored the task before us. I know, some will say that this view is naive, but I think it looks rather different, if we look at it from a Kingdom perspective.
Maybe one more comment, as you did briefly mention Europe: It is not true when some say that the UK and other countries are becoming Muslim. There are certainly quarters of many European cities that are predominantly Muslim, but as a whole our countries are becoming secular. The biggest danger to our churches, communities and countries is not Muslim immigration. Much bigger is the danger from a church and a society that has forgotten God. Much bigger is the danger from a church that claims to be orthodox, but is only concerned about itself and is not light and salt in society by either walling itself in or by being more influenced by the world rather than itself influencing the world.
Wow Mike thank you for your courage on this. Every Bible believing Pastor should talk about these things in my opinion. I agree with you completely and have come to the same conclusions just with different words.
Good video, Mike. I think you hit on all the salient points and rightly divided the Word. I especially like the way you exhort folks to think things thru Biblically and move folks to get into the Word to see what Scripture as to say. I can't think of any issue that Scripture doesn't address and FAR too many form opinions based on emotion and not the Bible.
Okay... im not that far into the video but i cant wait until the end. Where do i get a "think biblically" shirt? I want one! Itll go with my "serve Jesus daily" shirt.
Mike, my wife and I love your work and have benefitted so much, so please take this as a comment in a respectful and brotherly tone. I am almost through question 1 (immigration) and I have yet to hear you use the term "illegal immigration" or differentiate between LEGAL and ILLEGAL immigration in either a modern or biblical sense - I think that's a mistake. In Exodus 12 and elsewhere we see set rules and expectations for immigrants, this blatantly represents a functioning system we may call "legal immigration" in a modern sense. The clear implication in everything I have seen is that if the rules and expectations of the nation are not followed, the sojourner (immigrant) is no longer welcome and is subject to lawful consequences. I believe that this answers the core question we all want to hear answered, which is "How do we deal with illegal immigration as Christians?" the clear answer is - don't hate them, but there is no biblical need to welcome them if they are not LEGAL immigrants. This hits home for me as a second generation American - your extended discussion using words like "sojourner " and "immigrant" seemed to miss the big point of distinction - ILLEGAL immigration is for us, as it was for Israel, something to reject in a lawful, respectful, righteous, manner. Judging by your content I don't think you even disagree with this, but I think your lack of using and identifying the term matters. EDIT: I see you did mention illegal immigration in the very end of your answer, but I think the point stands that there was a need to address, front-on, openly that the Bible is not at all in support of welcoming, paying for, or turning a blind eye to illegal immigration.
Fellow brother. I have to say I reject this notion of following Israel’s set of rules in regard to immigration policy. Israel still stands today, and they are unique because they’re Gods chosen people. American isn’t. But fine I can allow that for sake of argument, how would you then protect the border and have more agents on the ground? Seems like a good answer would be to allocate resources for CBP right? Well if you think that’s the case why would then Trump cancel the border bill?
He does a good job in this biblically focused, pretty good job but just stepping out for a second what’s going on in our country right now is nothing like immigration illegal or otherwise it’s massive and it’s funded. It is more invasion ….on a sidenote all these companies that hire people under the table taking advantage of illegal immigrants Should all be punished. They’re not paying taxes. They’re taking advantage of people. It’s all bad. Let’s start there.
In the beginning he addressed this with different terminology, basically back then is different than now culturally when talking about crossing borders etc.
Israel were to welcome the foreigner into their community. However, that person was expected to integrate into the theocratic culture and not seek to establish one of their own.
This has been a hard topic for me. In 2008 my neighborhood completely change. I’m in the minority too. Now I deal with 2am drunk birthday parties for a 5 year old with music played super loud and large crowds of family and friends that go there. As I Christian I know I am to love them. But my flesh gets angry. I have two beautiful daughters and I’m constantly on the watch to keep them safe. Mainstream pushes diversity but to me that word only divides. It’s like culture shock to me. The powers that be abused there power. Economic asylum is not a reason to ignore breaking the law. If they got saved and relented of their sins, would them remaining in america knowing that the law was broken be forgiven? Legal is good. Illegal is bad.
@@poh-tay-toes no worries friend. Your comment didn’t shame me. Yes their status is illegal. The landlord told me so himself. He said the reason he likes them is because one of them pays for everyone’s lot rent which makes it easier for the landlord to come collect on the first of the month. I have to add that after one of these late night drinking events they even backed their car into a little old lady’s car then took off. When I called the police and we went tell the old lady we were cursed out in Spanish. Just very disrespectful they were. I’m not limping all immigrants into that box, this is just my experience.
The immigration topic is simple. The bible in places like Leviticus treats immigrants like refugees, which they generally would've been in those days. Either the most desperate people, or people completely willing to change their way of life for a safer more enjoyable one. Immigration problems nowadays are always the **choice of governments,** who *can see* when they're importing too many people, and are doing it with the intention to make native or settled groups uncomfortable. Try always have a hidden agenda - perhaps suppression of your wages/salary, perhaps the ethnic replacement of **your** group of people, or perhaps they are importing people to vote for them in the next election. Regardless. What we call immigration nowadays is actually **invasion**, given the entirely unsustainable and unreasonable scale it happens at. You cannot host the whole wide world in your home country.
Your explanation of a biblical view of immigration is helpful! Thank you, Mike, for thoughtfully discussing this! I live in Canada and at times have felt concerned about the amount of immigration that our current federal government is permitting.
Along with immigration you need to address the issues of human trafficking and of drug smuggling. These are two issues that are major reasons for our country to regain control of our borders.
I'm new to this discourse and willing to learn, but I believe your interpretation of old testament verses here may be flawed. Any thoughts or feedback would be appreciated. My understanding is that Israel was given the law for three main reasons: to restrict evil (like slavery), to demonstrate that humankind cannot obey God's instruction on our own accord, and to set Israel apart as a representation of God's will and way on earth. Instructions regarding clothing made of two materials, for example, prompt questions from other about the rules they follow to put it simply. This would position Israel as like an embassy, shining the light of God's glory into the dark world and displaying a contrast between the peoples' behavior. Given this, it makes sense that God might instruct Israel to keep itself separate from the world in many ways; the contrast is important to God's intention for Israel. Therefore, I'm lead to question the interpretation that such instructions constitute a general principle that other countries should emulate. Israel is unique in this purpose, that is, except for one other body. I think the better parallel would be to new testament verses about maintaining a church that's purely faithful, such as being equally yoked and parting ways with those living in sin, among others. Today, the church is God's embassy, and we are instructed to keep it well lit and open to those who follow the light. In summary, it seems more reasonable to me to interpret these old testament verses as primarily instructions to the people of God about how they should live as unique ambassadors for God in contrast to the way of the world, rather than as instructions for countries about immigration that should be emulated today.
Just wanted to quickly add on another thought that crossed my mind. Aside from the above concern, I generally agree with the principles you're deriving from scripture here, and I appreciate your commentary and insight regardless of where I end up landing on it. However, it's worth noting that at least some of your conclusions are not based purely on scripture. For example, at 47:54, you said, "many people don't consider the effect of mass immigration on the people that they love, right, they just think about loving the immigrant, but they don't realize that they're to love multiple groups of people and they do come in different priorities." Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm reading this argument as meaning that the Bible says we are to prioritize loving our families, so if mass immigration has a negative impact on your family, then there is a Biblical basis for opposing mass immigration, since love for the foreigner is a lower priority than love for one's family. As sound as the scriptural interpretation behind this argument may be, either way, it also necessarily requires you to interpret the news media and information economy regarding the impact mass immigration has on your family. The discussion surrounding the voracity of that belief is nuanced and HIGHLY polarized, partisan, influenced by our echo chambers, and fraught with disinformation, especially considering that it's been central to the US election. Such is the case for every non-scripture premise in the discussion of this subject. Our response to this issue is not as simple as interpreting What the Bible Says about Immigration. In order to draw conclusions like the one above, you have to already believe certain things about what's going on in our world right now, things that are hotly debated along partisan political lines. This isn't inherently wrong to do, in fact it's often necessary, but I think you should be more clear with your audience about when and how you use non-scriptural premises.
@@Feeling_Better_Already Well thought out. We are Christians first, Americans a distant second. Christians think they can influence politics without it influencing them back. Our theology and thought process is shaped by what is around us, especially by those we ally with politically. Conservative values are just another path to hell, one that is more tolerable to the American Christian.
I wonder if this applies to the Europeans that came to America. Massive immigration came to our open borders. And now I'm considered the Foreigner on my own continent I'm not even a sojourner according to scripture.
@@ryankelly9032 good intentions? they killed my people. They enslaved the rest of us. Then isolated us on reservations. Some of us lost our identities by shaming us into believing that we were savages. They passed laws that only allowed people that looked like them to enter the country. Then I became the foreigner.
1:15 Mr Winger there have been a few videos or minor things I have not agree with your reasoning on, but your video on death penalty had good arguments and changed my view on the death penalty
Thanks for covering this Mike, but I have a question: what about Ruth? Would we say that David was part of the assembly of the Lord? if so, how many generations was he from Ruth the moabitess?
Thank you for speaking on out reach and how we should worry about in house first. There’s many congregations that worry about increasing numbers but ignore their duty to tend to their flock. Just because someone attends service doesn’t mean they are alright.
Hi, I have a question about a practice some Christians follow regarding the blood of Jesus. They believe in applying the blood of Jesus over many things, not necessarily objects (e.g., sickness, food, finances, etc.), and I wonder the biblical validity of this… even so if it is necessary. In my opinion it is not necessary, but it is an act of faith that pleads the power of the blood, but it can also be misleading to some if they believe there is a way to “tap” into the blood with words/actions. Can you shed some light on this?
Mike, long time listener, and very much appreciate your channel! I am falling into the trap of only commenting when I have a disagreement, but nonetheless, here we go. As for the 1 Corinthians 5 topic, I think the problem with your argument, is that the concern in 1 Corinthians 7 about the unbelieving spouse, is that these are 2 completely different kettles of fish. One has to do with people claiming to be a Christian, and the other about unbelieving spouses. Immediately we have two different categories. Spouses also have a fundamentally different relationship to all other relationships, in that they are essentially insoluble. I would like to hear more from you about this. I have many nominal Christian family members in sin, and 1 Corinthians 5 has convicted me about this exact issue. I think it is a matter of shunning, not that you cannot seek after them, but your life is an attempt to stand in their way, a pebble in their shoe.
Leviticus 19:33 “When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am The Lord your God.”
It tells not to mistreat them. The foreigners must not mistreat the locals either. The Scripture clearly talks about borders and boundaries. If an army of foreigners come- that's an invasion. It also talks about the foreigners who join the nation of Israel and serves the God of Israel. Worshipping foreign gods was forbidden
Let all people into your homes freely as guests. Give them what they need. You need to takke the initiative to act what you say is correct. Don't tell others to do, unless you are willing to do it too.
Amen. God confused language to separate peoples. Foreigners are not the same as invaders. Unfortunately many conflate the two. Also Acts 17:25-27 New American Standard Bible 25 nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things; 26 and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, 27 that they would seek God, if perhaps they might feel around for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;
As have the others who have commented, I have given this much prayerful thought. I have come to the same conclusions you have mentioned along with one other. Starting with President Reagan, our nation has allowed illegal immigration and even at times rewarded illegal immigration with amnesty. This has accelerated over the years to where the past 4 years it has not only been allowed, but facilitated. I believe this to be completely unwise, and as a citizen will vote to reverse this. As a Christian, because this has been allowed by the government, once they are in our country, I am to treat them as a sojourner. Such a difficult topic and thank you for addressing it Biblically.
A mut'ah is a temporary marriage in Islam, also known as nikah mut'ah which translates to "pleasure marriage". It's a private contract where the couple agrees on a set length of time and a sum of money to be paid to the woman. The word mut'ah is Arabic and literally means "pleasure".
As an attorney that does not practice immigration law but has studied it, I would say that immigration law is extremely complicated and hard to keep up with. Especially, when considering differences between the letter of the law(s) and enforcement.
Mike, first, thanks for what you do. I find it a great resource and blessing. As I listened to your talk about immigrating you mentioned farmers. The problem farmers have is that few citizens and legal residents are willing to do the work on farms and dairies. Small family farmers and dairyman long ago could no longer make it which led to larger and larger farms/dairies which means having to hire people instead of it being a family operation. Our society has moved so far away from God and the consequences for that are numerous.
About the question time stamp 58, 1st Kor. 5:9-13, about not associating with a brother that lives in si; I think, or at least the way my father explained it to me, is that there's a big difference between a fallen brother, and a member of the church that considers themselves a brother, continues to be an active in church, serving, preaching, praying over others, leading etc, and at the same time lives in sin, and is not ashamed of it. Someone who is unrepentant is not the same as someone who stumbled and fell and stopped going to church.
Good video. Can not help think where and who draws the orgin of US? Europeans? Spanish? Native of America people? I hope what is happening with the borders being crossed is stopped. But, can not help question the issue all the way back too
at one time that would be an effective argument but it really isnt anymore. For most, that issue is many generations removed from where we are now and it's not like european countries would just open their doors to us who descend from there or honestly i'd go, I'd love to live in ireland. That fact in itself proves my point actually. If we are unable to just walk into those countries because we're naturalized here then it proves how irrelevent the choices of our forefathers are to the rest of the world in this present day, we're americans to them, not irish, german, italian, etc. I dont agree with what trump is trying to do concerning birthright citizenship AT ALL for that reason...you should be a citizen of where you're birthed, not pay for the sins of those who'd come before you
Dear Mike, Thanks again for taking the time to go through all of this. However I can't help but note that you completely undid all of your work at the end... "Cultural assimilation is important... But we are to go out as missionaries to all the world." The missionary, by their very nature will not completely assimilate. So are you saying that people who come to the USA should assimilate, but not those who go out from the US? And if you are saying that those who come into the US should assimilate, then you stand in judgement over your ancestors who did not join the tribes who lived on the land where they settled... Again, I admire your heart in trying to live biblically on this issue, but I feel that the situation is still as complicated as the end as it was in the beginning... Dare I ask if this is a sign that you need to do another deep dive on this issue?😅😅 God bless you and your ministry, DF
To the lady who asked about telling her Muslim parents that she believes in Christ: if it is at all possible to become financially independent from your parents before you tell them, it would be wise to do so. I've not heard of this sort of thing going well, ever. Perhaps others here have more wisdom in that area. I know situations are very different, but if you can prepare for the worst and hope for the best, it might ease some of the pain if things do go very badly. I will be praying for you, as this is a difficult thing needing much prayer and trust if the Lord. ❤
I think your interpretation of 1 Timothy 5:8 is quite a bit backwards. For one, the implications of extrapolating from the household to the government creates all sort of uncomfortable inferences if you really think about it (i.e. the government should be ran by a male dictator). Second, as Christians, brothers and sisters in Christ who are from other countries *are our priority* because they are fellow members of the household of God - unlike fellow Americans who are not believers. I find something perhaps sinister and intentionally spiritually divisive about the idea that a virtuous Christian should support policies that prioritize the welfare of unrepentant co-nationals over brothers and sisters across borders. I support borders - well-regulated borders. But I don't support them for the selfish benefit of Americans. I support them for the security of all parties involved. A good Christian country ought to steward these borders well, which involves security but also compassion. "We only want the best" is a conservative policy that really only hurts the poor (who disproportionately come from developing Christian countries) and benefits the wealthy, educated, and secular (migrants coming from North Europe, East Asia, etc.)
12:41 I remember this lesson with a homeless guy once at the public library. I was a young Christian, and I thought I need to give to those that ask. I mean I still think that, but he asked. He realized I gave to him more when he asked for more. And then, he kept asking for more. It reached a point where I said no, I don't have anymore. I was trying to obey Luke 6.30 but I suppose if all Christians did this literally in every case of being asked, it feels we would all end up with empty wallets--sitting on curb sides 🤔
Question Time Stamps for Quick Reference:
0:00 - Intro
1. 0:18 {A Biblical View of Immigration} What are some biblical thoughts surrounding the political issue of immigration?
2. 49:40 {Confessing Your Faith when Difficult} I'm a 30 y/o woman in SoCal, financially dependent on my Muslim parents. I've studied for years and I’m now feeling called to Christ. I fear being kicked out. Any advice on how to tell them I'm Christian?
3. 52:03 {Eternal Begottenness?} Should we hold to eternal begottenness of the Son which seems to suggest that the Son was caused? It seems orthodox, but wrong to say of God.
4. 56:13 {When Discipline turns to Drudgery} William Booth says, “We ought not consult feelings but do our duty.” How does that not then become drudgery? How do we be disciplined like Daniel, yet not mechanical?
5. 58:11 {Hosting Sinners in our Homes} Is 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 only for corporate gatherings or also for private gatherings such as family meals, etc.? Should Christians host professing Christian family members who are living in unrepentant sin?
6. 1:03:00 {Overcoming Difficult Addictions} I’ve tried SO many times trying to quit vaping. I’m starting to feel like a bad Christian. Any advice?
7. 1:04:51 {Contemplative Prayer} I'm curious about contemplative and listening prayer practices promoted in my church. Are they rooted in or influenced by Eastern mysticism or New Age ideologies?
8. 1:08:01 {Why Didn’t God Forbid Polygamy?} If verses like Exodus 21: 10 aren't supporting polygamy but protecting women in a bad situation, why didn't God just outlaw polygamy outright? I agree with you, but don't know how to counter this argument.
9. 1:13:10 {Obeying our Conscience} Is Romans 14: 23 about emotional doubt or intellectual doubt? For example, I'm mentally convinced that ham is OK to eat but I still doubt it emotionally. Which is my conscience to obey?
10. 1:17:21 {What is a Heart of Flesh?} What does giving us a heart of flesh mean, when flesh is usually negative?
56:32 {Slurp}
@@basedghostcoasttocoast oh yes, very important! 🤡☕️
Well. It’s been 2 weeks. However. Are you familiar with Larry Alex Taunton? He is a Christian who has spent time south of our border among those attempting to come to the US. He is a very compassionate person who has given food, water, and money to some of them. He speaks about all the dangers that they face and has been through part of the Darin Gap. And yet. He is adamant about our border being closed. For the protection of those coming to the US. And also for the protection of US citizens. There are, i think, at least 3 videos of him south of our border. I have a daughter-in-law who is a police officer in Northern California. They had a raid on a construction site that was using illegals at their job sites. These men were made to live and work where their were told. And of course their wages were ….. slave labor (?) wages. But i wish that all who have watched your video would see the videos from Larry Alex Taunton and his time spent south of the border.
This topic is difficult because there are many who are exploiting our compassion and generosity towards others for political purposes.
@@leib109
Yes, and there are also many who are exploiting our fears and our divisions for political purposes too.
And the immigrants who are being exploited for financial gain.
God bless,
D
I would love examples of this.
All I see is people lying about migrants committing more crimes (they statistically commit less) and lie about them eating pets (an absolute bold face lie).
And some of those people are our pastors, warning us against being “too political” while packaging their partisan stance as “love your neighbor.”
Sure, love the ones who are breaking the law. But, the people suffering from a rise in crime and being forced out of housing in favor of “immigrants?” Ignore those neighbors. They’re probably just racist.
It's quite maddening to be aware of all that is (and has been, for quite some time) going on and yet find yourself surrounded by people who are either indifferent to it or actively cheering it on as a good thing. You ask yourself just what the hell has to happen for some people to finally open their eyes?
@@leib109 do you have any particular examples of this?
Immigration lawyer and a Christian here. Biblically, it makes sense that we would prioritize our people in the country first rather than foreigners. 1 Tim 5:8 (interesting that this could be applied logically from the family to nation).
Regarding this topic though, legally asylum seekers are NOT eligible for federal, public benefits. Some states can make changes to their state benefits, but federally only people who win their asylum case are then eligible for public benefits (food stamps, cash aid, etc.). Regarding feeding, asylum seekers are NOT eligible for food stamps. Asylees who win asylum are. Asylees are lawful immigrants. Asylum seekers have their cases pending.
Letting everyone and anyone come in.
Not correct. Do a lot come in? Yes.
Very interesting, objective, and Biblical video.
I'll have to comment more later.
Hear me out: as super great as this is, and I'm thankful, how cool could this have been if it had Mike, bringing what the Bible tells us, you, Mr. Martinez, to help us sort through and better understand what our current laws are and how they're being circumvented. Having a third, a BP agent to share what he really sees would greatly add to the mission we should all be on. Our nation is in a mindset of righting the wrong, truth and transparency. Mike's PC is fantastic, he need not change a thing.. I'm just throwing out an idea that could likely have every Christian with access watching it - since so many struggle with where to stand on the topic. Bonus - Mayorkas has to sit in the corner and watch - or be asked a few questions under a bright lamp location.
It would be long-form, like Rogan (,or like. my reply 😅) but people are loving these. After the Twitter files came out all of America learned we're not only having our government lie lie and live, they suppress into we should have then create their own narrative that our tax dollars pay you. We are awake and we're here for long interviews. Just a thought 😊
FEMA manages a ~$500+ million program for “asylum seekers” to receive benefits; the dollar amount is much likely higher than that, but it’s impossible to know because of govt deception masked as incompetence.
It’s also important to point out that the vast majority of “asylum seekers” don’t meet the requirements to seek asylum but have been put in that category anyways by this Administration rather than simply put on a plane and flown back to their country of origin.
So true. My country has signed the international refugee law but still only less than 3% get accepted as legal refugees and until then they receive no government state benefits. Developed countries cannot function without migrant workers (ask the farmers or factory owners) and we act like they are taking us over…
@@annabelle7123 my roommate is from Haiti, got here with a work for Amazon. $20 dollars, 40 hours a week. Do you know any American that want it that work? I certainly do. But guess what? The government is doing deals behind our backs. IMHO, sooner or later we are going to pay for this irresponsibility. Because he is not here for one year yet, but his girlfriend is already pregnant. What a surprise?! I hope I am wrong, because they don't tell the whole story.
I’m not trying to argue, but illegal immigrants get food stamps, Medicaid, all of that. How do I know? I work in health care. They show you their EBT cards, their Medicaid cards, all of it. These are not “asylum seekers” either. These are people who have entered the country illegally.
Mike (over and over again over the years): "I know this is going to make you angry with me."
Me (seemingly every time): "Nope. That just makes sense."
Loved how you clarified the balance between compassion and community values. It really hit me when you showed that biblical compassion isn’t about ignoring boundaries but respecting them-welcoming sojourners without losing the integrity of the community. Maybe that’s a message today’s church needs: compassion that invites, yet also values responsible boundaries. Thanks for tackling this so thoughtfully!
I mean we should treat our immigrants well. My issue is that we have laws for this already. We dont have to be abusive, but if people break our laws, thats not ok. We have migration laws, and while they need to be streamlined, we must require migrants to follow them. Its not just to allow people to just come here and get the citizen treatment while others who are legally trying to enter get shafted.
Yes. No nation would stand if they have complete open borders, especially if that nation is to prop everyone up with money and affirmative action in jobs. We have a legal way to get here it's not like we are just keeping all from here but we shouldn't allow unfettered access when we know that there is human trafficking taking place and ppl who will murder and bring drugs here aswell. A lot of immigrants would be a net positive on our nation but they must be vetted.
Let’s hope this administration doesn’t use rhetoric that generalizes certain groups of people this 2nd time around. Leading to mistreatment of foreigners.
@@keithgarcia6054 The last time we looked at groups that were high in terrorists and made them go through extra vetting.
The huge problem here is that when you’re dealing with millions on a daily basis it becomes ridiculous to comb through each individual’s situation. You have to start somewhere, and probability narrows down focus.
@@keithgarcia6054 The fact of the matter is that the ppl who come here through the southern border ARE criminals and invaders. That is not hyperbole. The ppl who come here are military aged men who only seek to prey on the country without contributing anything to it.
He never did that. Mexicans did have murderers and rapist coming here. That never meant ALL Mexicans are those things....that's the devil leading you.
"your intellectual COMMITMENTS trump your emotional feelings" - very comforting. Thank you!
Hey Mike, I just want to say I’m about 24 minutes into the video and I’ve heard you say you know people will watch this and disagree or possibly get upset. However, that’s not my case. I want to say thank you for making this video at all because I know many Christians haven’t. Many who discuss this topic don’t do it from a Christian worldview and do not ultimately desire to seek and learn what Scripture really says even if it challenges our views.
I am Latina and my parents came here legally but my church is filled with brothers and sisters in Christ who did not. This has been weighing on my heart lately. I want to say thank you because you did for me what I couldn’t … you looked at Scripture and presented me with God’s Word on the topic. I wanted to do this but didn’t believe I could do it objectively without being overly compassionate or hypercritical and hurt. So thank you for doing some of the heavy lifting for me as God renews my mind and transforms my heart about this very contentious issue.
You aren't saved by doctrine, you're saved by a relationship with God.
If you can't go to Him yourself and read the Bible yourself, you have a GIGANTIC problem. You might be heading to Hell.
You should pursue a relationship with God. From your comment it didn't sound like you really believe God is even real.
If God is real, and you are saved, approach like a child. You can't rely on human men to do that for you.
And there's no such thing as "over compassionate".
It sure sounds like you were worried that you feel "more compassionate than God", potentially. You thought the Bible might upset you so you didn't even read it.
Your church sounds like a den of criminals, and you don't seem to know or love or trust God.
With all due respect.
If they are truly Christians why are they living illegally in a foreign country?
With all due respect. That's not morally acceptable of them to do. I understand you love them. But they're criminals and they really shouldn't be here. I pray they all get deported.
There's nothing cruel or wrong about that. They invaded my Home. I pray they leave. They could have come legally. They chose to come illegally. I pray they all leave. They should not be here.
Mike admitted that he does not know enough about immigrations nor the laws that commit American to certain types of immigration, so i would listen and take with a grain of salt
@@dominikoluwole1948. But there is a man, Larry Alex Taunton, who does know quite a bit about the “immigrants”. He has spent time, with them, south of our border. He has deep compassion for them and has given them food, water, and money while spending time with them, south of our border. He is very well aware of the all the different dangers that they face in their attempts at coming to America. He has even spent time in part of the Darin Gap. And yet. He is calling for a closer of our border. In part for the safety of those coming here. And also for the safety of US citizens. Have you spent time south of the border?
Major respect (as always) to you Mike for approaching every topic with a blank slate and allowing scripture to lead you where it may. This teaching has forced me to re-evaluate my stance. Please pray that my heart would be opened to what God's word says and not what I want it to say.
Keep up the great work, and take heart in knowing your teaching is appreciated everywhere.
🌹🌹🌹please pray for salvation for, My husband Pete, and two sons, Chris and Nick.
Lord God save this husband, and this child of yours, sons, in Jesus name!
@@vanessaparvin3295God bless you, Vanessa🌺
Still have them on my daily prayer list. May God's peace be upon you.
@@shirleypratt7559. God bless you, Shirley 🌹🌹🌹
@@vanessaparvin3295. Thank you very much, Vanessa🌺🌺🌺
Great job @ Mike wingerFor my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD. “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways.
The passage about taking care of your own family first is exactly what I have been thinking. Thank you for this video.
@@cindyking4654 out of curiosity, what immigration policies prevent you from being able to do that?
While it's not a one to one comparison, it is a very wise principle. If we can't take care of our veterans and our own poor. If we can't protect our citizens from the influx of drugs and crime. Then how can one trust those in authority? There are many legal refugee programs that are in place. I currently sponsor Ukrainian refugees under a government program called Uniting for Ukraine. It requires a lot of documentation and personal resources, but it was something God called me to do. I doubt our government prayerfully considers what should and should not be done.
@@ChanningChea For real... we live in a first world country and people are screaming "Mass Deportations Now..." when we aren't starving. It is just an excuse for them to worship a fascist and put a "God approves" stamp on it... instead of sharing out of our abundance.
@@ChanningCheaif the immigration policy puts my family’s safety at risk, I’m failing my duties as the head of my home. Think of the country as an extension of your home, you regularly invite people in, have guests, even temporarily house people, but all these people are vetted and legally in your house with your approval. If you leave your doors and windows wide open and make it known that anyone can enter your house at will and you won’t do anything about it, you have failed to provide any level of safety for your family. As you are responsible for your home, in the same way you are responsible for the extensions of your home, being your town, your state and your country.
There is no passage about taking care of your family FIRST. There is a passage about caring for your household (which likely means more than immediate family).
Also, we have to look at what Jesus says about family in Matthew 12:46-50, specifically 49-50
"Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”
The issues we face on immigration are difficult. But we need to lay out the questions rather than jumping to doing good or protecting people. It's complicated by the fact we don't have a Church capable of actually communicating at length, and a government divided and blind.
How can we help people who need it? How do we stop criminals? How can we bring them into the faith? How can we foster a love in them for what God has given them, and deter hatred?
Great teaching, Mike. Thank you for tackling the subjects that so many teachers/preachers shy away from!❤
Thank you for helping us think biblically about everything, especially the gritty topics of our day. Your ministry has been such a blessing to me and my family. I’m praying for you and your wife and your ministry.
At 4:45 Mike nails it. “If you come to commit crimes, you are not an immigrant…you are an invader.”
Thank you, pastor Mike! I just recently led a Bible study on the immigration topic at my local church a few weeks ago and it was a real encouragement to hear you concurring with many of my points and making some of your own which I had never considered, such as the point about Nehemiah.
The central point of emphasis for me was that there is a sharp divide between the way we treat individual people versus the type of policies we advocate as those who are called to steward our civic duties which God has blessed us with. In other words, just because someone is here illegally does not give us license not to love them. We must guard our hearts from becoming hard and calloused towards people, regardless of whether or not they have a right to be here. There are no exceptions to the people we are called to love. If I see an illegal immigrant who is injured and dying, and I refuse to help him... I have failed my duty as a Christian. (ie the good Samaritan; we should not be playing the lawyer and asking "but who is my neighbor" in order to get away with things)
That being said, I concur with just about every point you made. I would probably clarify that while I don't think it's necessarily right to demand that someone be a Christian in order to immigrate per se, I think cultural or spiritual differences are a definite point of consideration as to the negative effect which someone could have on our nation and people. The easiest example to give would be the muslim world. We can see right now the effect that mass muslim migration has had on the culture of the UK, and Islam will soon be their majority religion. We don't want that here, and I think that it's right to protect our people from that type of influence.
I believe what you pointed out in your ending summary about the exclusion of particular nations like the Moabites or so forth was in keeping with this principle, and it sounds like you essentially agree, if I am understanding you right. The USA is not strictly a Christian nation, but her prosperity and blessing is largely due to many of the Christian principles upon which she was built, and we should expect a standard of assimilation to be in keeping with those principles. That is my conviction of how we let scripture inform the issue.
Also, I have not heard Acts 17:26 used in the way you suggested, which is that it categorically rejects the idea of immigration whole-sale. I believe you that some may use it that way, but I've just not heard that. I DO understand it personally, though, to be relevant to this issue in that it seems pretty clearly to identify God as establishing the borders of nations throughout different times in history, in the same way that the Lord establishes kings.
That's not to say that borders are sacred and can never change, but at the very least I think it provides ample support for the idea that we can not wipe out borders completely, and should respect them as law-abiding citizens. Do you disagree with that use of the passage?
On that same note, one theme in scripture which I found relevant to the issue and you did not interact with was the many references in the law to violation of property lines by moving boundary markers: 📖 Proverbs 22:28, 23:10; Deuteronomy 19:14, 27:17; Job 24:2; Hosea 5:10. 📖 I am aware that these are not about national borders, but I also see this as a principle which is relevant to the issue, and I am curious if you would disagree with my application here.
Even though it's referring to private property boundaries, the principle is that someone covets something on the other side of an established boundary, and so he violates that boundary in order to take what his neighbor has.
All in all, I thoroughly appreciated your treatment of the topic and I'm thankful you took the time to interact with something that is undoubtedly a super difficult topic for a lot of Christians. Have you heard of Allie Beth Stuckey's new book "Toxic Empathy"? She talks about the misappropriation of love which you were articulating here.
Grace and peace, brother.
Thank you for sharing your understanding with us @jerdazzo. Your points seem very relevant. May the Lord keep guiding you! 🙏🏽
This was a masterpiece Mike. So proud of you for the balance presented here.
Thank you, Mike, for studying the Word pertaining to immigration and applying it to our situation today.
Thank you, Mike, for being a faithful warrior...
A very balanced and nuanced biblical presentation that is very relevant for today.
I really like your approach to take a stance on political issues if they interfere with what we are believing. Be bold and tell them to take responsibility.
There's immigration and there's illegal immigration.
And all the difference in the world between the two.
Let's not forget that fact.
Mike you are doing a great job of sorting this out, keep up the good work, you are making a difference!
Thanks, Mike for this. VERY IMPORTANT! 😮❤
I’m glad you brought up the point that we are to take care of a brother first. I’ve been vocal about giving free things like food and clothes thinking that will cause them to become saved. I have witnessed the failure of this thought process in being a missionary to the Philippines. As soon as a new missionary comes along with a bigger financial backing and has more to offer, the people we were witnessing to left us for them.
What is meant by brother? Who is a Christian’s brother from a biblical perspective?
@ it is a fellow believer, by biblical definition, not necessarily a familial relationship
@@krakoosh1 I don't understand how you are using the word “brother” in your comment.
Are you saying instead of using your resources to serve those in need in the community, instead you should have used your resources to assist the brothers in your local church?
@ that’s what I meant and that is what Mike said. I explained myself clearly
@@krakoosh1
Clearly?
Just like you “clearly” believed giving food and clothing to people would result in their salvation. Almost as if you offered a bribe to compel them to accept Jesus as their savior. What part of the gospel instructs us to do that in an effort to make disciples?
Matthew 28:19, 20
Do you really want to present yourself as someone who can’t have the wrong perception or perspective on something?
I recently broke my hip and went from hospital to rehab facility. All of the workers there were immigrants from other countries. People born here do not want to change the diapers of an elderly woman with a broken hip who is temporarily incontinent. This was a very upscale facility.
Thank God for all these workers, wherever they are, wherever they came from 🙏 . Thankyou to you if you are one of them, who treats the elderly with compassion & respect.
Some will say that they are getting paid to do it, but for those who do their job with a smile on their face & seeking to maintain the patient's dignity - that is priceless. THANKYOU.
Thank you for talking about this. I've been trying to talk about this for months but you either have to be in one camp or the other. Always appreciate your videos, Mike!
Immigration lawyer and Christian AMA. Great video!
Hi Mike, Maybe look into the writings of retired pastor Patrick Kahne. He has a couple books he has written and among other topics, goes into immigration from a biblical perspective. He also has a youtube channel. Thanks for addressing issues that effect a lot of us. Hearing your thoughts on many topics helps me consider things from a different view point. Some of those views I am not in agreement with, but the fact that you consistently respect other people and are never verbally abusive to those who are questioning or are in disagreement with you is refreshing and appreciated. 👍🏻👍🏻
It's Kahnke and I agree that he's a good person to listen to. However, I have seen Mike say things that have made me lose respect for him. People disagree and unsubscribe and Mike tells them they are causing the division and that he would never do something like that to them. I would not say that he consistently respects other people unfortunately, although that is a view I held about him for a while until recently.
Post the full quotes friend. Otherwise, this is rhetorical distortion coming from offense. It’s not divisive to disagree with me. Nor is it divisive to disagree with you. It is divisive to decide that if someone doesn’t hold your political conclusions, you will write them off for the rest of your life. I don’t care how many subscribers I have, I care that the church is not behaving this way. It’s unhealthy for all of us.
@@maxspringer01 I have never seen him say anything disrespectful. Saying someone is wrong is not disrespectful. He always tries to use the Bible come to conclusions. He does have to deal with a lot of trolls.
@@MikeWinger EDIT TO ADD: I found the full quotes and am posting them in this thread. EDIT #2: the quotes I posted won't show up, what a surprise. I'm editing this comment to add them to the end of this comment.
It's buried somewhere in the literal thousands of comments you've gotten over the last week. People can definitely choose to unsubscribe and not listen to you for sound viewpoints anymore if you've taken an unsound approach. I absolutely do agree that you have the right to say your viewpoint, and you absolutely have the right to choose a side and disagree with a given party, no argument there. But the way you went about it, as well as your writing off true statements about the guy who has caused all this division in the first place as simply "seems like false information" was also wrong. I am well used to the detailed and nuanced approach you normally take on difficult topics, and you did not take that approach here.
I have commented elsewhere that if you had been as honest and detailed about the problems with the Republican candidate/side as you were free to speak about the Democrat side, I wouldn't have had nearly the problem I have. Your comments and your approach are what made it unhealthy. Christians like me have been in absolute stomach knots over who to vote for this election because, unequivocally, neither side is the Christian side, and neither side aligns with Christian or biblical principles. The truth of the matter is that both sides have elements that directly war against biblical principles and also have elements that align with them. That is the truth, and yet the amount of Christian leaders like you who will say it like that are next to none. Instead they make statements like "I don't see how anyone can be a Christian and vote Democrat" while acting like the very real anti-biblical disqualifications of the other side are "false information"? From someone as weighty as you, like it or not, the message is a hairs breadth away from "you are not really saved if you vote Democrat". Of the two major parties, there absolutely was not a "Christian" side, not even close.
Brother, I was born and raised in a Christian cult and was taught lies and a false biblical worldview for decades of my life. Now that I've left, what is true matters to me more than anything. This is the source of my passion. You were one of the few Christian leaders that helped get my head screwed on straight after leaving the cult because you cared about what was biblically true and accurate. I'm only asking that you take the same care here.
=======
Here are the quotes you asked for. This is from your "Community" post that begins "My Christian commitments..."
conner8160: How can trump be better than harris morally? The man was convicted of rape. He was pals with Jeffrey epstein and we have courtroom testimony that trump liked to engage in awful things with minors. He name calls his enemies has said he wants to jail journalists and democrats who don't align with him. Trump os one of the most immoral politicians in the United States right now. How can you evangelical types go and basically throw your morals out of the window because of maybe like what one or two issues? I.thought better of you Mike. But this is gross dawg.
MikeWinger: If I believed what you believe about him I may feel the same way. Imagine for a moment that what you’ve heard has been deliberately exaggerated and misleading propaganda that was meant to influence your vote. If so, it appears to have worked. Am I saying he’s a great guy, or even a good man? No. But the stuff you’re saying seems very much like false information. Consider the fact that for four years he was president and didn’t jail any journalists, but Kamala Harris did persecute a specific journalist who was doing investigative journalism into Planned Parenthood, one of her major donors. Seek out the other side of the story
conner8160: im just going to unsub from you. Have a good rest of your life. I'll pray that God restores your sanity.
MikeWinger: ok. But let’s not pretend that I’m the one causing division here. You can write me off over this disagreement but I’d never do that to you.
@@maxspringer01 Were you a JW or LDS?
May GOD bless you, Mike!
Mic drop! 25:30 is the practical application!
Sup Ruslan? Good to see you here brother.
“Mike drop” 😅
The practical application is the priority of our fellow citizens... Of the nation that actually matters - the global Kingdom of God. We tend to our household first, yes. But, given how vocal the Bible is about Christians being a part of a common people and nation united in Christ, how can a Christian extrapolate from that that your secular co-nationals take the next priority over brothers and sisters across borders?
I think this all or nothing approach to immigration is terrible. We keep falling into one extreme or the other. Is there not a way to start new policies, securing the border and improving immigration, while offering a path to citizenship and all of the responsibilities associated with it, while at the same time deporting the immigrants who have committed crimes either in this country or their former country? I think that treats everyone fairly, prevents us from having such a chaotic influx of new immigrants, keeps those who have immigrated illegally accountable to become legal residents and not get paid under the table and ruin our economy while also holding criminals accountable for their crimes? Doesn’t seem that hard to me, maybe I’m just naive?
So let's wait for us to find their crimes
Thats what Reagan did, gave amnesty to quite a few illegal immigrants and put them at the back of the line for citizenship. The upcoming administration will have no interest in something like this unfortunately.
As an immigrant, I agree! Definitely doesn't have to be all or nothing. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like politicians want to find a proper solution. I guess the extreme rhetoric is best when it comes to getting votes (even though it ends up hurting everyone in the end).
Or the people whom are immigrating can come together and improve their own countries.
Nothing new needs to be done. Enforce the laws on the books would be all that is necessary. We used to vet those who wanted to come in and make sure they go through the entire process.
Thank you for your thoughts on immigration. Very timely. 🙏🙏
Excellent video, intelligently dealing with the nuances of the situation.
Mike, thank you so much for this teaching on immigration. I have always wrestled with this topic and could never fully agree with either political side. Thank you for helping me think biblically about such a politically charged topic.
Mike your advice for the comment about vain has been a blessing to me. I don't struggle with vaping but I do struggle with a habitual sexual sin. It can be very discouraging and it's easy to self-condemn. But your advice has helped to lift me up. I cannot give up. Christ has redeemed me and there is forgiveness at the cross. I'll keep going. Thanks so much for your words 🙏🏾
Romans 13 says to submit to the government. Our nation has a border and laws regarding legal immigration.
We can have empathy for foreigners while also supporting the laws of our land. In the same way we can have compassion for you and that you are running late to work but we also know that it is just for you to get a ticket for going 20 over the speed limit.
Adding to that point, the commands to show compassion are primarily directed at individuals. Commands given to government even in the OT are primarily to rule justly and not show favor to either the rich or poor, not to oppress the poor, to punish evil, and to protect the lives and property of individuals from anyone (citizen or not) who would take that life or property. I am not implying that immigrants are any more prone to crime than citizens, as we all were of the kingdom of darkness, and only by God's grace can receive His sacrifical offer and be transferred to the kingdom of light.
Yes I agree
When you sneak into the country you are knowingly continuing to break the law by being here.
Mike, Thank you. I am so blessed you explained this. It has been a struggle to know how to navigate this space.
Once again, Thank you so much Brother Mike 😁
Hi Mike once again from South Africa. I appreciate you spending the time to go through your Biblical understanding of immigration, which I support. I must confess that my comments of 9 days ago to your initial discussion regarding the election was due to my surprise ( and probably disappointment) in your comments then on immigration. That is, using an extreme left point of view for " unfettered immigration" as the " Democratic way", especially when the " Democratics" supported the Republican bipartisan bill for greater control at the border and that this was not passed due, as I understand it, to Trump's instruction to the Republicans who control the House. Thank you for clarifying this balanced Biblical approach. I pray for the USA during this next 4 year period that true Christian values and positions are enhanced and not eroded. God's blessings.
Immigration from a Christian perspective is a really big subject that needs to be discussed in this manner, good job and thanks for having the nerve to address it in a respectful manner.
Thank you so much Pastor Mike. We should treat immigrants like Jesus is an immigrant Matt 25: 41 - 45, not saying we should let them abuse the laws and open borders but we need to fund more border patrol agents and get so many cases reviewed in a timely manner. We should have compassion and empathy for families fleeing danger and not lock them in cages and starve them.
I preferred it when all questions were answered using the Bible to getting counsellings by Mike.
Thank you Mike. You said some things I had not heard of before.
Thank you for covering this topic, Mike. More importantly, thank you for covering it biblically.
thanks Mike for wading in to this difficult topic, I appreciate the much needed light from scripture you gathered and arranged for us.
Hey Mike! I love your content and have been following you for years. Thanks so much for seeking always to be careful and thoughtful with things.
I felt in listening to this review though that it may be unfair in comparing Israel’s laws to another nation. Since they were supposed to be a people set apart and holy to be light to the nations. I wonder if some of those laws and historical decisions from God were aimed more at setting Israel apart and less about being guidelines for other nations. Would love to know your thoughts!
Thankful for you brother 🙏🏽 💙
I did check 'sojourner' in the Webster's Third New International Dictionary. A guest or lodger. And a 'sojourn' is a temporary stay in as of a traveler in a foreign country, or to stay as a temporary resident.
Strong's Concordance: Citizen/Countryman Greek:Ach .....
Legal Immigrant/Sojourner/Stranger is Ger/Toshab/Gare: a Guest,Temporary Inhabitant...... Foreigner/Illegal Immigrant is Nokri/Zar
'When a Stranger (Legal Immigrant) resides with you in your land, you shall not oppress the Stranger. The Stranger who resides with you shall be to you as the Citizen among you.” (Leviticus 19:33)
Before I watch. My stance is as Followers of Christ we do have an obligation to help people and limit human suffering. BUT I don't believe the way to do that is to just move the suffering here instead and in the process, put an incredible and extreme burden on everyone already here. I'm willing to change my mind as i watch this.
Thank you for this word, Mike. I struggle with the idea of deportation that has been brought to the forefront. I would love to hear your take on the church not doing their part in taking care of the poor and the orphaned so the government has replaced it, and now we rebel against the government doing it.
Thanks for always starting with the topic shown in the thumbnail.
About an immigrant becoming legal I think the pastor of the church should address the family and ask about their papers. It wouldn't be right just because you are not required to denounce by law , to look to the side and turn a blind eye. It is no so difficult. It should be a policy of the church to help the family get their papers giving them guidance but not paying the price. The church can help them in several other ways, legal advice, etc. It would be wrong if you never mentioned the issue to the family or to the church. Speak openly about it and have a written statement about the issue. Some guidelines.
@@claudiaperfetti7694 I wonder too about repentance, do they show repentance about having broken the law? Does the church guide through that? What would full and complete repentance look like?
@@garlandofbooks4494 is illegally immigrating always wrong? Sometimes might responsibility to protect, provide, and care for one's family trump that? For an extreme example, consider all the Jews who tried to get out of Germany when Hitler rose to power but who were forced to return to Germany by America and by other countries who were unwilling to admit them. Many people died because of that. Again, very extreme example, but many illegal immigrants come from extreme circumstances which is why they're willing to take that risk. And I think that's 100% justified.
Thank you! A few comments from a non-American Christian on the immigration issue. I agree with a lot of what you said, but do have some comments.
1. We are citizens of heaven. That is our first and foremost identity. In this world we as believers are all strangers and aliens, we are the sojourners, we are living in exile similar to Daniel, Nehemia and Esra in the OT. We are to seek the best for the community we live in and pray for it to God, at the same time we shouldn't conform to the world. We are ambassadors of the Kingdom. As you said, there is no ethnic people of God, besides Israel. I think as Christians, heaven is always our first identity. Out of that, we should live for the good of our earthly country, but sometimes maybe, we should look at issues more from an outside perspective.
2. While I do think that every country has a God-given right to decide who can come in, wouldn't it be more appropriate to apply the instructions of the OT to the church instead to modern countries? I think the reason for the OT forbidding mingling with other peoples was always the danger of idolatry. Israel should remain pure and committed to the covenant with God, which is true for the church. And if Israel had followed God's command to the letter, King David could not have been part of the assembly of God's people - his great-grandmother was a Moabite (Ruth)!
3. I am wondering how an American can talk about this, without mentioning the mass migration (to use your expression) of Europeans to North America between 1492 and the early 20th century. There is no way to turn back the wheel and I don't think we can right all wrongs from past centuries and millennia. But we can't ignore our own history when talking about the present. But those Americans who understand Acts 17:26 as a command that needs to be obeyed, should definitely very quickly move back to Europe...
4. But then the same verse also talks about "allotted periods". Empires come and go, peoples move back and forth. In my view, that verse is descriptive of what is happening and makes clear that all of that happens in the end according to God's purposes. And verse 27 shows what God's purpose is in this: "that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him". I see the migration of hundreds of thousands of Afghans to Europe as God's way of giving his church the opportunity here to reach them with the Gospel, while it is so hard to do that in their home country. With past generations of Muslim immigrants, we have often ignored the task before us. I know, some will say that this view is naive, but I think it looks rather different, if we look at it from a Kingdom perspective.
Maybe one more comment, as you did briefly mention Europe: It is not true when some say that the UK and other countries are becoming Muslim. There are certainly quarters of many European cities that are predominantly Muslim, but as a whole our countries are becoming secular. The biggest danger to our churches, communities and countries is not Muslim immigration. Much bigger is the danger from a church and a society that has forgotten God. Much bigger is the danger from a church that claims to be orthodox, but is only concerned about itself and is not light and salt in society by either walling itself in or by being more influenced by the world rather than itself influencing the world.
Wow Mike thank you for your courage on this. Every Bible believing Pastor should talk about these things in my opinion. I agree with you completely and have come to the same conclusions just with different words.
Please pray for my lovely wife, for her to come to Christ. Thank you, It’s much appreciated. Have a wonderful day.
Good video, Mike. I think you hit on all the salient points and rightly divided the Word. I especially like the way you exhort folks to think things thru Biblically and move folks to get into the Word to see what Scripture as to say. I can't think of any issue that Scripture doesn't address and FAR too many form opinions based on emotion and not the Bible.
This is so needful I Think, thank you Mike for giving some insight. We all need to try to stay closer to the bible, rather than a political party.
Okay... im not that far into the video but i cant wait until the end. Where do i get a "think biblically" shirt? I want one! Itll go with my "serve Jesus daily" shirt.
Haha! A very kind subscriber sent it to him, so I'm not sure. But some helpful websites if you'd like to make your own are Teespring and Zazzle.
Mike, my wife and I love your work and have benefitted so much, so please take this as a comment in a respectful and brotherly tone.
I am almost through question 1 (immigration) and I have yet to hear you use the term "illegal immigration" or differentiate between LEGAL and ILLEGAL immigration in either a modern or biblical sense - I think that's a mistake.
In Exodus 12 and elsewhere we see set rules and expectations for immigrants, this blatantly represents a functioning system we may call "legal immigration" in a modern sense. The clear implication in everything I have seen is that if the rules and expectations of the nation are not followed, the sojourner (immigrant) is no longer welcome and is subject to lawful consequences. I believe that this answers the core question we all want to hear answered, which is "How do we deal with illegal immigration as Christians?" the clear answer is - don't hate them, but there is no biblical need to welcome them if they are not LEGAL immigrants. This hits home for me as a second generation American - your extended discussion using words like "sojourner " and "immigrant" seemed to miss the big point of distinction - ILLEGAL immigration is for us, as it was for Israel, something to reject in a lawful, respectful, righteous, manner. Judging by your content I don't think you even disagree with this, but I think your lack of using and identifying the term matters.
EDIT: I see you did mention illegal immigration in the very end of your answer, but I think the point stands that there was a need to address, front-on, openly that the Bible is not at all in support of welcoming, paying for, or turning a blind eye to illegal immigration.
Fellow brother. I have to say I reject this notion of following Israel’s set of rules in regard to immigration policy. Israel still stands today, and they are unique because they’re Gods chosen people. American isn’t. But fine I can allow that for sake of argument, how would you then protect the border and have more agents on the ground? Seems like a good answer would be to allocate resources for CBP right? Well if you think that’s the case why would then Trump cancel the border bill?
He does a good job in this biblically focused, pretty good job but just stepping out for a second what’s going on in our country right now is nothing like immigration illegal or otherwise it’s massive and it’s funded. It is more invasion ….on a sidenote all these companies that hire people under the table taking advantage of illegal immigrants Should all be punished. They’re not paying taxes. They’re taking advantage of people. It’s all bad. Let’s start there.
In the beginning he addressed this with different terminology, basically back then is different than now culturally when talking about crossing borders etc.
Israel were to welcome the foreigner into their community. However, that person was expected to integrate into the theocratic culture and not seek to establish one of their own.
Thank you, Mike, for this teaching on immigration! Absolutely wanting in the church in America! You’re spot on, IMHO.
This has been a hard topic for me. In 2008 my neighborhood completely change. I’m in the minority too. Now I deal with 2am drunk birthday parties for a 5 year old with music played super loud and large crowds of family and friends that go there.
As I Christian I know I am to love them. But my flesh gets angry. I have two beautiful daughters and I’m constantly on the watch to keep them safe.
Mainstream pushes diversity but to me that word only divides. It’s like culture shock to me.
The powers that be abused there power. Economic asylum is not a reason to ignore breaking the law.
If they got saved and relented of their sins, would them remaining in america knowing that the law was broken be forgiven?
Legal is good.
Illegal is bad.
Also, as with the folks in Martha’s Vineyard and other posh areas, the people who claim to love m….s don’t want them in THEIR neighborhoods.
We have to protect our families as Christians.
God is still protecting the Jewish people.
@@poh-tay-toes no worries friend. Your comment didn’t shame me. Yes their status is illegal. The landlord told me so himself. He said the reason he likes them is because one of them pays for everyone’s lot rent which makes it easier for the landlord to come collect on the first of the month.
I have to add that after one of these late night drinking events they even backed their car into a little old lady’s car then took off.
When I called the police and we went tell the old lady we were cursed out in Spanish.
Just very disrespectful they were. I’m not limping all immigrants into that box, this is just my experience.
The immigration topic is simple.
The bible in places like Leviticus treats immigrants like refugees, which they generally would've been in those days. Either the most desperate people, or people completely willing to change their way of life for a safer more enjoyable one.
Immigration problems nowadays are always the **choice of governments,** who *can see* when they're importing too many people, and are doing it with the intention to make native or settled groups uncomfortable.
Try always have a hidden agenda - perhaps suppression of your wages/salary, perhaps the ethnic replacement of **your** group of people, or perhaps they are importing people to vote for them in the next election.
Regardless. What we call immigration nowadays is actually **invasion**, given the entirely unsustainable and unreasonable scale it happens at. You cannot host the whole wide world in your home country.
Sounds like disrespectful behavior regardless of who the neighbor is, even if it was a frat party.
So appreciate your addressing these hard to understand topics and only from Biblical stance!
Your explanation of a biblical view of immigration is helpful! Thank you, Mike, for thoughtfully discussing this! I live in Canada and at times have felt concerned about the amount of immigration that our current federal government is permitting.
Along with immigration you need to address the issues of human trafficking and of drug smuggling. These are two issues that are major reasons for our country to regain control of our borders.
Tell me you didn't watch the video without saying "I haven't watched the video"
Family first (after God); isn't family first exactly what motivates many to leave the place they live, looking for a better life. ❤
I’d been thinking very black and white on the issues surrounding immigration. Thanks for helping me think more deeply about it.
Good thorough job.!
I'm new to this discourse and willing to learn, but I believe your interpretation of old testament verses here may be flawed. Any thoughts or feedback would be appreciated.
My understanding is that Israel was given the law for three main reasons: to restrict evil (like slavery), to demonstrate that humankind cannot obey God's instruction on our own accord, and to set Israel apart as a representation of God's will and way on earth. Instructions regarding clothing made of two materials, for example, prompt questions from other about the rules they follow to put it simply. This would position Israel as like an embassy, shining the light of God's glory into the dark world and displaying a contrast between the peoples' behavior. Given this, it makes sense that God might instruct Israel to keep itself separate from the world in many ways; the contrast is important to God's intention for Israel.
Therefore, I'm lead to question the interpretation that such instructions constitute a general principle that other countries should emulate. Israel is unique in this purpose, that is, except for one other body. I think the better parallel would be to new testament verses about maintaining a church that's purely faithful, such as being equally yoked and parting ways with those living in sin, among others. Today, the church is God's embassy, and we are instructed to keep it well lit and open to those who follow the light.
In summary, it seems more reasonable to me to interpret these old testament verses as primarily instructions to the people of God about how they should live as unique ambassadors for God in contrast to the way of the world, rather than as instructions for countries about immigration that should be emulated today.
Just wanted to quickly add on another thought that crossed my mind. Aside from the above concern, I generally agree with the principles you're deriving from scripture here, and I appreciate your commentary and insight regardless of where I end up landing on it. However, it's worth noting that at least some of your conclusions are not based purely on scripture.
For example, at 47:54, you said, "many people don't consider the effect of mass immigration on the people that they love, right, they just think about loving the immigrant, but they don't realize that they're to love multiple groups of people and they do come in different priorities." Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm reading this argument as meaning that the Bible says we are to prioritize loving our families, so if mass immigration has a negative impact on your family, then there is a Biblical basis for opposing mass immigration, since love for the foreigner is a lower priority than love for one's family. As sound as the scriptural interpretation behind this argument may be, either way, it also necessarily requires you to interpret the news media and information economy regarding the impact mass immigration has on your family. The discussion surrounding the voracity of that belief is nuanced and HIGHLY polarized, partisan, influenced by our echo chambers, and fraught with disinformation, especially considering that it's been central to the US election. Such is the case for every non-scripture premise in the discussion of this subject.
Our response to this issue is not as simple as interpreting What the Bible Says about Immigration. In order to draw conclusions like the one above, you have to already believe certain things about what's going on in our world right now, things that are hotly debated along partisan political lines. This isn't inherently wrong to do, in fact it's often necessary, but I think you should be more clear with your audience about when and how you use non-scriptural premises.
@@Feeling_Better_Already Well thought out. We are Christians first, Americans a distant second. Christians think they can influence politics without it influencing them back. Our theology and thought process is shaped by what is around us, especially by those we ally with politically. Conservative values are just another path to hell, one that is more tolerable to the American Christian.
I wonder if this applies to the Europeans that came to America. Massive immigration came to our open borders. And now I'm considered the Foreigner on my own continent I'm not even a sojourner according to scripture.
Settlers=/=immigrants
They were coming legally and with good intentions.
@@ryankelly9032 good intentions? they killed my people. They enslaved the rest of us. Then isolated us on reservations. Some of us lost our identities by shaming us into believing that we were savages. They passed laws that only allowed people that looked like them to enter the country. Then I became the foreigner.
Listening while working. Thank you so much for talking this out with us. I’m torn on the issue. This is very thought provoking.
1:15 Mr Winger there have been a few videos or minor things I have not agree with your reasoning on, but your video on death penalty had good arguments and changed my view on the death penalty
Thanks for covering this Mike, but I have a question: what about Ruth? Would we say that David was part of the assembly of the Lord? if so, how many generations was he from Ruth the moabitess?
Thank you for speaking on out reach and how we should worry about in house first. There’s many congregations that worry about increasing numbers but ignore their duty to tend to their flock. Just because someone attends service doesn’t mean they are alright.
Hi, I have a question about a practice some Christians follow regarding the blood of Jesus. They believe in applying the blood of Jesus over many things, not necessarily objects (e.g., sickness, food, finances, etc.), and I wonder the biblical validity of this… even so if it is necessary. In my opinion it is not necessary, but it is an act of faith that pleads the power of the blood, but it can also be misleading to some if they believe there is a way to “tap” into the blood with words/actions. Can you shed some light on this?
Mike, when we say sojourner, are you saying to lump legal and illegal together? Or do you differentiate?
I really appreciated your analogy with the traffic camera.
Thanks for your perspective!
Mike, long time listener, and very much appreciate your channel! I am falling into the trap of only commenting when I have a disagreement, but nonetheless, here we go.
As for the 1 Corinthians 5 topic, I think the problem with your argument, is that the concern in 1 Corinthians 7 about the unbelieving spouse, is that these are 2 completely different kettles of fish. One has to do with people claiming to be a Christian, and the other about unbelieving spouses. Immediately we have two different categories. Spouses also have a fundamentally different relationship to all other relationships, in that they are essentially insoluble.
I would like to hear more from you about this. I have many nominal Christian family members in sin, and 1 Corinthians 5 has convicted me about this exact issue. I think it is a matter of shunning, not that you cannot seek after them, but your life is an attempt to stand in their way, a pebble in their shoe.
Love your shirt!!
Leviticus 19:33 “When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am The Lord your God.”
Consider it in line with everything else the bible says as well.
It tells not to mistreat them. The foreigners must not mistreat the locals either. The Scripture clearly talks about borders and boundaries. If an army of foreigners come- that's an invasion. It also talks about the foreigners who join the nation of Israel and serves the God of Israel. Worshipping foreign gods was forbidden
It would seem that you didn't listen to Mike's full commentary on this.
Let all people into your homes freely as guests. Give them what they need.
You need to takke the initiative to act what you say is correct. Don't tell others to do, unless you are willing to do it too.
Amen. God confused language to separate peoples. Foreigners are not the same as invaders. Unfortunately many conflate the two.
Also Acts 17:25-27
New American Standard Bible
25 nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things; 26 and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, 27 that they would seek God, if perhaps they might feel around for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;
Great! The perfect guy to hear from on this. Let's get Biblical 😎
As have the others who have commented, I have given this much prayerful thought. I have come to the same conclusions you have mentioned along with one other. Starting with President Reagan, our nation has allowed illegal immigration and even at times rewarded illegal immigration with amnesty. This has accelerated over the years to where the past 4 years it has not only been allowed, but facilitated. I believe this to be completely unwise, and as a citizen will vote to reverse this. As a Christian, because this has been allowed by the government, once they are in our country, I am to treat them as a sojourner. Such a difficult topic and thank you for addressing it Biblically.
Great video
A mut'ah is a temporary marriage in Islam, also known as nikah mut'ah which translates to "pleasure marriage". It's a private contract where the couple agrees on a set length of time and a sum of money to be paid to the woman. The word mut'ah is Arabic and literally means "pleasure".
I agree with you about immigration. We must follow the Scripture!
As an attorney that does not practice immigration law but has studied it, I would say that immigration law is extremely complicated and hard to keep up with. Especially, when considering differences between the letter of the law(s) and enforcement.
Thank you so much for explaining immigration. I only knew a little about it and now I can think Biblically about it.
Thank you Mike, our true authority is scripture and not a Presidental/Governmental candidate nor party.
Mike, first, thanks for what you do. I find it a great resource and blessing. As I listened to your talk about immigrating you mentioned farmers. The problem farmers have is that few citizens and legal residents are willing to do the work on farms and dairies. Small family farmers and dairyman long ago could no longer make it which led to larger and larger farms/dairies which means having to hire people instead of it being a family operation. Our society has moved so far away from God and the consequences for that are numerous.
Thank you for number nine--I needed to hear that!
Great video! Thanks 👍🏾
About the question time stamp 58, 1st Kor. 5:9-13, about not associating with a brother that lives in si; I think, or at least the way my father explained it to me, is that there's a big difference between a fallen brother, and a member of the church that considers themselves a brother, continues to be an active in church, serving, preaching, praying over others, leading etc, and at the same time lives in sin, and is not ashamed of it. Someone who is unrepentant is not the same as someone who stumbled and fell and stopped going to church.
Good video. Can not help think where and who draws the orgin of US? Europeans? Spanish? Native of America people? I hope what is happening with the borders being crossed is stopped. But, can not help question the issue all the way back too
at one time that would be an effective argument but it really isnt anymore. For most, that issue is many generations removed from where we are now and it's not like european countries would just open their doors to us who descend from there or honestly i'd go, I'd love to live in ireland. That fact in itself proves my point actually. If we are unable to just walk into those countries because we're naturalized here then it proves how irrelevent the choices of our forefathers are to the rest of the world in this present day, we're americans to them, not irish, german, italian, etc. I dont agree with what trump is trying to do concerning birthright citizenship AT ALL for that reason...you should be a citizen of where you're birthed, not pay for the sins of those who'd come before you
Dear Mike,
Thanks again for taking the time to go through all of this.
However I can't help but note that you completely undid all of your work at the end...
"Cultural assimilation is important... But we are to go out as missionaries to all the world."
The missionary, by their very nature will not completely assimilate. So are you saying that people who come to the USA should assimilate, but not those who go out from the US? And if you are saying that those who come into the US should assimilate, then you stand in judgement over your ancestors who did not join the tribes who lived on the land where they settled...
Again, I admire your heart in trying to live biblically on this issue, but I feel that the situation is still as complicated as the end as it was in the beginning...
Dare I ask if this is a sign that you need to do another deep dive on this issue?😅😅
God bless you and your ministry,
DF
To the lady who asked about telling her Muslim parents that she believes in Christ: if it is at all possible to become financially independent from your parents before you tell them, it would be wise to do so. I've not heard of this sort of thing going well, ever. Perhaps others here have more wisdom in that area. I know situations are very different, but if you can prepare for the worst and hope for the best, it might ease some of the pain if things do go very badly. I will be praying for you, as this is a difficult thing needing much prayer and trust if the Lord. ❤
Love you shirt! How can I buy one?
I think your interpretation of 1 Timothy 5:8 is quite a bit backwards. For one, the implications of extrapolating from the household to the government creates all sort of uncomfortable inferences if you really think about it (i.e. the government should be ran by a male dictator). Second, as Christians, brothers and sisters in Christ who are from other countries *are our priority* because they are fellow members of the household of God - unlike fellow Americans who are not believers. I find something perhaps sinister and intentionally spiritually divisive about the idea that a virtuous Christian should support policies that prioritize the welfare of unrepentant co-nationals over brothers and sisters across borders.
I support borders - well-regulated borders. But I don't support them for the selfish benefit of Americans. I support them for the security of all parties involved. A good Christian country ought to steward these borders well, which involves security but also compassion. "We only want the best" is a conservative policy that really only hurts the poor (who disproportionately come from developing Christian countries) and benefits the wealthy, educated, and secular (migrants coming from North Europe, East Asia, etc.)
12:41 I remember this lesson with a homeless guy once at the public library. I was a young Christian, and I thought I need to give to those that ask. I mean I still think that, but he asked. He realized I gave to him more when he asked for more. And then, he kept asking for more. It reached a point where I said no, I don't have anymore. I was trying to obey Luke 6.30 but I suppose if all Christians did this literally in every case of being asked, it feels we would all end up with empty wallets--sitting on curb sides 🤔