Reminds me of how clan boss used to be. If it was killed before you got a hit, you got nothing. It caused major fights within the clan. Plarium obviously didnt learn from that mistake.
The dumbest thing is that buildings aren't repaired auto after a siege ends, so if you lose 1 single siege battle and don't have the resources to build up your towers again.. You're pretty much screwed for the next siege battle..
@@alschirjaev9213 Yes it is, siege is over now and all towers need to be repaired.. You get basically nothing from losing and therefor don't have nearly enough resources to even get 1 tower back up... I hate how plarium never thinks stuff through..
I spent those 5 hours calling out and coordinating, paid off, we won but it is very complicated! I can't see how a clan without Discord or Telegram can do this at any efficiency. Also agree on the rewards... it's CLAN WARS,, not individual rewards...Everyone should get a reward!
Congratulations! Side question. Did you manage it so that everyone could get at least one win (on offense or defense), while coordinating defender teams and attack locations? If so, how did you manage it? If not, those clan members who end up getting nothing may be less enthusiastic in their support going forward.
@@brent8783 Unfortunately the Clan we faced was too strong to get my little guys a hit in, and I explained the unfair rewards system. They were sad but said they'd try harder next time so they could get a reward. They know the reward system is bad, and are patient thank goodness!
Don’t worry everyone, Plarium is making sure that the new coming FATELESS turn based RPG Hero collectors game is a massive success!!! Thank you Plarium!
This exactly happened to our clan - we have like 8 ppl getting nothing. Also, I am afraid that once the matchmaking gets right, it will be all-kill bonanza. I.e. both clans will kill everything and it will end up in a draw.
You're telling me Raid made a decision that doesn't respect people have lives outside of the game?!? I'm shocked I tell you, shocked! Well, not that shocked.
What do you think about the clans leaving empty defenses so reserves are used by strongest clanmembers? You have to tell weaker players not to set ANY defense so the krakken members get extra defense placed. They cant even get defense if you want to be really competitive.
I could be totally wrong here but as clans upgrade buildings that means more defenses can be added, so eventually every member may need to use 3 attack keys. So it looks like Plarium dished the resources like everyone had max'ed buildings. But since it just started and no clan has max'ed out its buildings these now extra keys are getting used but potentially at the cost of someone else getting left behind. Just like match making, thought out, well I'm doubting that.
I'm in a small clan that where most of the members don't use Discord. It was really hard trying to coordinate the siege attack just using the in-game chat. We won and destroyed everything in the opposing base, but we had 8 members who login later in the day who never got a chance to make an attack. It really sucks that 8 of our members now won't get the victory chest.
Yes, unattacked defence should also be counted as succesfull defence, strong defence repels attackers. Noone wants to waste attack scrolls in hopless fight against strong def, he has no chance to win against
There is another scenario that happened in my clan. We were matched against a weak team, on ATK my clan colleagues went through the team easily, several clan mates did not get a chance to fight an ATK. And the opposing clan are not attacking us so even if they have a defence in place they are not being matched. I won’t get anything.
If your clan is well organised, you can let everyone have their offense or defense win before going to a second use of attack scrolls. Btw, I agree on your idea of counting the re-battle possibilities as attack in the process of rewards (if you don't have a lot of champions, maybe you can focus on a single winnable fight)
Unless they leave the match making completely screwed up as it is now (looking at arena, that is very likely, actually) be real, you ain't ever seeing that 7k points. And I feel anyone participating should be getting rewards, regardless of winning a fight, or even winning overall. Yes, better rewards for winning, but why shouldn't you get anything at all, if you did your best to support your clan and participate in this event. Reward system needs a complete overhaul.
*clan gets completely walked over despite throwing everything they had at it and gets no rewards to at least help them improve over time* Plarium: I'm sure they'll be able to do better next round!
The bigger issue, is if you have 2 evenly matched clans, and both clans destroy every bldg, it ends in a tie, and no one gets any of the rewards either.
yesterday i did adress this on the raid discord suggestion channel that i would like the: "you have to win one fight" changed because people in my clan have a wide spread in player power the weaker ones have a really hard time to get this done sadly the player base did vote it down edit: to give players/plarium the benefit of the doubt... maybe they are afraid that it could be abused like you buy yourself into a strong clan and get carried so maybe the rewards have to be downgraded in tier when you don t win a fight?
The problem is so obvious, so would thought Plarium dont see it as problem. They did change the reward, so I'm sad I didnt do when it was launched. Lets hope they will now fix anyway
Ooof just checked how much the repairs cost - our clan lost and will _never_ be able to repair the towers. This is just crappily balanced. 2x2000, 4x1000, 3x1500 Gold: 12'500 Gold to repair all of them.
Regarding the tier points, everybody in T6 started with 2100, you gain 6 points for winning a fight (either attack or defense) and lose 6 points for losing. The fact that your clan is now below 2100 just means that you lost more fights than you won. Depends on how they do it for the next siege, most likely you will get demoted to T5 and get matched with clan in the similar point range but we will find out for sure in less than 2 weeks.
Had to edit this in as I just found that I did in fact win a defence battle, 2 in fact from my secondary just thrown in team lol, so that is why I received the gear reward, I will cut that bit out... We are facing an obviously stronger clan than our own but we are doing as well as could be expected with the matchup. However, this will even out after 2/3 rounds I expect (hopefully) and then we will be in a position of... NO ONE WINS as we will be evenly matched and likely to win/defend equally as well as the opponent. This might well be slightly different at the very top because the gulf in class from the top 10/20 clans and the next 40/50 clans is stark, so expect CC's in top clans to reflect their experience as it's everyone else's experience, which it is not, nor will it ever be. This is Hydra Clash all over again (under 35mil and you get nothing beyond the usual hydra box, no matter where your clan places), and I can say that as a PvE player with a toe in PvP, this is going to go the way of Santranos, LA and Hydra Clash, a dead zone for the majority of clans/players with just the most competitive (top clans) actually playing seriously who believe everyone else is also as engaged as them but really couldn't give a crap because it's a Whale/Kraken/end gamer's playground as usual instead of a lvl 45+ mode that it has been promoted as and where the majority of players are in that level 50-90 range who will just throw some random teams wherever just to look like they are playing this mode, but are just going through the motions. There has to be a winner, period! If Paylarium want us to play then let someone win every time. This is not football (soccer) where a draw may have some value. All the real value is in the winners box and one clan should get it every time, or people will abandon this as quickly as they did Santranos imo. Fix it fast Paylarium, or sit back and watch another of your recent releases turn to dust again real soon.
@@swannkyh4834 Yes it is, but you still have to win or successfully defend once to get the gear once points total has been achieved by the clan. The system is designed to create the majority of fights ending in a draw for all the reasons I, others' and Saph have pointed out. No win, no winners box period. I really hope they change the system so someone wins every time, or why bother if you know it's 90% certain your going to end up with nothing even if you don't lose. No point even participating imo.
The most important problem remains... the people that cheated still got to keep their building upgrades. I quit. I wrote a very comprehensive and heartfelt post about it in Discord a week go. They reward the people that hurt the game and other players. They refuse to do anything about it. I have been playing for 4 years... I am lead of a stong clan. We do not cheat. We contribute to the game and community. They reward cheating players at the harm of good one. Its intolerable. They deserve their cheaters... and lose the good ones. Blessings all... I recommend finding a game where your not abused. ML and Blessings all!
as someone who barely keeps up in pvp modes i got a few ideas on how to make Clan Siege viable for everyone: - increase points earned for battles won and towers destroyed. makes it easier to reach higher tier rewards - make everyone viable for victory chests who either 1) won a defensive/offensive battle 2) wasn't attacked at all 3) spend all his attack and re-battle scrolls - drastically increase the fragments earned per Siege to avoid forcing your players to play this (currently) stupid ass game mode for years to earn that champion
This is only a problem right now at the start while everyone has LvL1 buildings. when things are upgraded it opens more Defense slots, and therefore more Atks will be able to be performed.
now its completely unmanageable, leaders should be able to remove defences, and allow or disallow attack or maybe akt phase should last as many days as attack tokens a player has basically 1 token per day, or give rewards to anyone who put a defense as youve said, I agree...
when siege went live i was at work. by the time i got home and logged onto raid (A GAME) after sorting the kids out, cooking, getting the kids to bed and then relaxing with my game siege was over for me. nothing to attack. thankfully i had my defense teams in stronghold and we still hold ours BUT still it sucked i had no chance to attack anything
My big idea was, let players 2-on-1 a defense and spend 2 attack tickets. We know it’s possible because we already face 2 bosses in cursed city. Just add that idea to a live arena interface, and 2 players could fight a single defense.
I'm seeing a different problem in my more casual clan, kind of the opposite problem. While we had sufficient participation over 12 days to put up a full defense (about 23/30), we are getting somewhat less participation on attack, so we will win, but we probably won't take either mana shrine. These are adults with lives and schedules and its just 2 days in the middle of the week. By the time these players have time to look at the Siege tab the attack phase will be over.
Not every clan has 30/30 my dude. They have to balance it somehow, but the issue is that Plarium is sticking to their motto: "Better than nothing, but not by much!". Therefore they're not really interested in creating an infrastructure around a mode, just looking to get people to drop cash.
Happened to me lol, my clan destroyed everything easily, i only took a mana shrine at the end, and the enemy team never got to any of my defenses ... lol ... no chest for me.
That is something your clan leaders need to tell your clan. Dont waste all your keys losing to the same defense. If you lose a speed race then let everyone else know your speed so no one loses a key going into the speed race blindly after you. This is the first time my clan actually talked and worked together to achieve a goal. This mode needs some improvements but I like it so far.
also - so many games have people who free load on others hard work - contribute very little and gain - so it is good that they get nothing - with the exception of selfish clans that take all the turns when people are offline due to timezone differences
We fixed it by just having some simple rules, like don't use more than 2 attack scrolls for the first 24 hours. We also made sure to save a few posts for players who didn't have a chance to attack yet.
Our opposing clan did a real good job of working through us, until they caught my clan mate, and they hit a hard standstill in the stronghold, and will now get nothing.
I think after the buildings are upgraded, the number of attacks required will increase as the number of defense slots in each building will increase. At that time the 90 atk scrolls and 90 rematch scrolls will be good to have. Every clan member will start having more chances to fight and win to get the rewards.
In the section just below the part you read--Victory Medal Rewards: "Regardless of the results of the Siege, all clan members can collect Milestone Rewards when the Clan collects a certain number of Victory Medals." So just the Victory Chest is contingent on 1 battle victory (but I agree a mana shrine rebattle victory should count for this).
As a clan leader, I have feedback for the first Siege. We were matched against a clan with more than double of our player power and we got absolutely decimated. It is what it is, for the first rounds match making can be an issue. But that's not the biggest issue, on defence every building that I have is destroyed. Then on offence, we only managed to win four fights. I won all of mine hoping to crack some hard teams so my clan could find matches more suitable to them. Only one more of my players managed to win one of theirs. So the real problem is that we won a total of 120 Florence. Now we have to Repair every single building that we have and it will take us literally months if not years to recover from this first bad matchup And that's just to make repairs that's got nothing to do with upgrading anything. The only way that we will have a shot to repair anything is if we get to fight a clan, that's similarly lower than us, and we absolutely decimate them, which I don't really want to do to anyone else either, because it takes the fun out of the mode In short I just think we're penalized way too harshly for having a bad matchup that's out of our control. We need a little Grace for these first couple of rounds, a way to repair and maintain if not upgrade, and I know I can’t be the only one in this position
Not getting 7k isnt an issue. Happens all the time in cvc where you dont get ALL the accessories. Can we as a community stop nitpicking everything and focus on the major complaints so that some things may actually get addressed. Good day.
greetings from the oblivion cluster :) for us it was a total wipe on attack and we also got wiped on defence in the first 4 hours. I guess both clans got 5000 points of flat stat feral items to burn chaos ore on. I actually assumed everyone would wipe since attackers get to select who armanz sheeps and have 3 retries. We had the scrubs go in first and the whales saved keys to break harder stages, some of the whales never got to fight because of this. I guess you just have to make it a clan rule. only use 1 key on day 1! same issue with Elite clan quests. not enough quests exist for all members so its 1 quest per member on the first day. that system hasn't changed. an easy fix would be placing a defence team (win or loose) on the map give you participation if your clan wins.
i also think another option for reworking this is the clan leader gets a messege pop up in the following format .... Member A, B C and D didnt participate in the siege successfully, do you want them to receive a victory chest? yes or no. this would allow new members, members on holiday, working etc etc to get rewards still at the clan leaders discretion.
My clan did really well, as we won all our attacks, but only have 15 members, even after wonning all the fights we didn't have enough attacks left to attempt the stong hold, absolutely gutted. Disparity of upcoming clans is quite sad and such a bad implementation
As someone from the opposite end of the clan power level. My problem is getting the clan to actually use their attacks and even place their defence. I wonder if there needs to be 3 levels, the bottom level is maybe half what it is now, mid level is what it is now and top level is 1.5x what it currently is. I'm at the point where if I want to enjoy this game mode I'll have to leave my clan and join a bigger one.
Tier 3 clan Deputy here tasked with coordinating this. I will say in my clan i got about 75% of people to respond and do the strategy in place. Which was simple. Donate your mana orbs and florins to upgrade the stronghold. Since we lack whales i went with defensive upgrades instead of offensive since it will just generically weaken the enemy team. We matched up against a weaker clan and have dominated. People who didn't participate wont be getting rewards and will be getting kicked. Siege and hydra and discord is now going to mandatory and i will just kick members who don't communicate
First siege has been pretty fun to be totally honest. Everyone seems engaged. Count mana shrine re-battles as victories and problem solved. My defenses were deep in the stronghold/shrines and never saw a battle as other clan couldn't quite get there.
This was my first and biggest concern with seige when the siege was presented. Can believe I was the only one, so Plarium got to have known about it. But its even worse as there seems not to be any tiebreakers
We had a great experience in my clan on this first Siege and as one of the leaders of the clan I agree here. It is not fair at all to the 5 clan members who participated and have been an integral part in our win but will not get any rewards, just because nobody attacked them and they used all their attack scrolls but couldn't managed to win any battles. We won because our defense was really strong, so we won in part because of those 5 members.
I was being a team player and waiting for best use of my attacks and my clan wiped the board. Luckily I win a def battle. Players are gonna go in and attack randomly to get their rewards and puss their clan off.
Dear Saph, good to see you. Hope you're doing well. Being in a clan that just lost, I see another Big Problem. I think florin costs are insane. Repairs alone put you in a downward spiral, where it's hard to recover from. Maybe you can raise awareness for this also. Or let me know if you think otherwise. Anyway keep up the good work. thx a lot & cheers
To be fair even though the system may seem kinda bad. I think the whole thought process from paylarium was to get clans to start actually acting like a cohesive group. Doing things like Scheduling atks with all other members to make sure everyone gets things done together and bring the whole togetherness feel people have been asking about from clans. If you have a clan leader it's his or her job to delegate properly to ensure the success of every member. It's hard, but it's designed to get everyone one in a clan to actually feel like they are apart of the whole democracy that is a clan. Now what they could benefit from is a better in-game chat system.
Nicely done, Saph! When I was watching your "the rewards stink" and "they buffed the rewards" videos, I was shaking my head when you were focusing on the amount of time it takes to get the new champion while focusing on >= 50% win rate part of your table (mostly on 75-100%), thinking, for >90% of players, that's not going to be possible. First issue: If the matchmaking system is working, you should do better than your opponent every other clash (ideally 50% win rate in a well-implemented matchmaking system). Second issue: Even before this video, we knew that you can only win by taking the opponent's stronghold. According to the system as designed, it should be possible for both teams to fail taking a stronghold, meaning the "ideally 50% win rate ..." is something less than 50%. Add to that, the stronghold is likely the most well defended location (again, by design). Now add this revelation that your clan can win, but you must also defeat an opponent, either on offense or defense. Again, as you stated, there are many scenarios where that won't happen, even for high-contributing clan members. The TLDR summary is that the realistic range for most players will likely be between 25% and 50% win rate. Going back to your last video, that means it will take 1-3 years for the vast majority of players (in tiers 2-5) to acquire Lamasu, after the reward buffs (3-8 years before the buffs).
We got exactly this problem. We tried to hold back after we got stronghold down. But ppl missed message and now 2 ppl are locked out of getting rewards. We even send opponent our post speeds so they could get up to their defenses but they are to weak to get there
The problem i have is 2 new members in my clan, didnt donate, didnt put a team in, and stole 4 atk battles from members who donated and put team in, and they were left out the rewards.
Agree with the issues, also having ~2 weeks for defense, and 2 days to for offense is lopsided. Make it so you can only use one attack a day (solves the 'rush' attack scenario), and extend attack to at least 3 days, maybe just 1 week for each mode.
Siege could have been a better system if they had just structured it like Doom Tower. With lowest power players at the bottom and highest power players at the top. Each player sets 3 defenses for rounds 1 through 3 of a "level" of the Siege (i.e., Doom Tower). And the clan that climbs the highest wins. With some sort of tie breaker, like fewest turns or something like that. It's sad that with the current system players may not get any rewards, even if they want to participate.
What we did as a clan was on tuesday we used 2 attacks then use the other on Wed to allow everybody to get a turn. And hey on wed my fight was against a team with a higher team power and I won.
We have 6 members who won't get anything then. And it's not as if at least 3 of those haven't been pulling their weight; they went in and sacrificed teams to get intel for other players to go and win attacks. I'm gutted to learn about this cause we will have a revolt because of this. I coordinated our whole siege effort and we did fantastically. We're headed to getting all rewards, except some of our team are now going to lose out despite being instrumental in our success. That's a shame.
In fact, one of these players attacked and lost what looks like at least 10 battles. He worked hard and put in effort. He's getting nothing. I am gutted for him. Conversely, someone in the clan hasn't logged in since the attack phase started and snuck in a defence in a mana tower behind more active players. So he'll get a reward, and he did nothing.
I think, every player should be able to attack every building, if another one has killed the defence, ok, than it will give no points, but you could get our 1 win
Easy fix - set a rule - dont be selfish - our clan gave instructions and had us hold back so everyone could get a win. any weak defences were saved for our smaller accounts to attack - just like with the clan quests - one each in first 24 or 48 hours - anyone who brakes that rule gets kicked out.
Does a win not count if you do it via a rebattle on the shrines? It doesn't seem to count those towards your attack victories. Maybe they should do like what they do with clan boss and make everyone available to attack again once all teams are defeated.
So incredibly unimpressed with Siege. I waited 2 weeks to do two arena battles. Wow what a great extension of the game. I'm going to spend hours and hours and hours preparing for these two battles😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
On my FTP account we were matched against a clan with only 12 easy teams on defense. We were done before I woke up. I am in the top three accounts for the group. I get nothing. Never had a chance to do anything.
I'm still concerned about what happens after it's over. The florins (I think) are used to rebuild you defenses. If you've just taken a heavy loss, you won't have extra florins and therefore you might not get back to 100%. This makes it harder for those who have lost to get their next win. Vice Versa, kraken clans who will win every time will have abundance of orbs and florins to become ever tougher the next round. Punishing the weak, and rewarding the strong. Hmmmmm.
about the 90 attacks and 60 defense, that is only when we all have lvl 1 buildings, with level 3 buildings it will be different will it not? The way I have understood it we get more defense spots when we upgrade. If we ever get enough coins. about the winning the offense or defense. Does the mana shrine "rebattle" counts? Ohh apperently not as you mentioned that later on. Thinking about this isn't it a bit as "clan quests" if the clan doesn't have any rules about letting everyone have a shot at the "expert" quests. There is only 30 of those and you can take 3 quests. As a clan you could say, only 1 attack the first day OR plarium can go in and make sure we can only take 1 quest day 1, and then another day2 etc etc, AND do the same with siege, give us the attack keys as the time goes.
My clan also got paired up with one of OBV's sister clans, and we are a level 15 clan against a 17, we got destroyed. Not even 2k victory points, and our lower level players cant get anything.
My current clan is never going to win a clan siege, there is no communication at all going on and I personally will not be able to participate because as it's lined up I will always be in my night shift for work during the battle phase and my clan will beat all the "easy" fights before I get a chance to fight.
As if he just called a player with 4 5-6* awakened mythicals as a good player. They're only good because their wallet is stuck open. Keep in mind they said the matchmaking would be based on the leaderboards for the initial siege, and here we got Saphs clan getting trounced by a clan that has no business going against his. I have one clan that got a clan that said "fuck this" and didn't even set up. On my main, we got a clan where the beginning stages have teams that are unbeatable for the lot of us. Great mode, 10/10 piece of garbage. Once again, every negative prediction on this mode was made true. Just another day at the office for Plarium. 3 years of dev time for this shitshow. THREE. YEARS.
Plarium still doesn’t understand the term, “personal rewards” in CvC, so they’re going to have to prove they have the energy to fix this before I give them the benefit of a doubt.
Forget Siege. I'm totally tired of that UA-cam Premium red dot. I don't want to have anything to do with it. Please remember for Fateless. You can't make me do anything, but you can annoy me enough times to contemplate leaving.
Not even florins and mana to help team for next siege ehehe, clan leaders will start to cilcle members, to renew mana and florins, some got to test this theory.
I just wonder who will get the rewards if you completely destroy eachother, if you destroy all the places you end up at 5k points, both clans destroy everything and both end up at 5k points, who wins?
This game mode makes tag team arena look awesome
Hmmm I think tag is still the worst ^^
Yeah, after testing it, siege just seems like a more confusing 3v3 arena
Reminds me of how clan boss used to be. If it was killed before you got a hit, you got nothing. It caused major fights within the clan. Plarium obviously didnt learn from that mistake.
naa they did, they just want an atention
Plarium has a phobia of giving their players anything (except the middle finger).
The dumbest thing is that buildings aren't repaired auto after a siege ends, so if you lose 1 single siege battle and don't have the resources to build up your towers again.. You're pretty much screwed for the next siege battle..
HAHA WHAT THATS A THING.
@@alschirjaev9213 Yes it is, siege is over now and all towers need to be repaired.. You get basically nothing from losing and therefor don't have nearly enough resources to even get 1 tower back up... I hate how plarium never thinks stuff through..
Destroyed building is still functional, you just can apply the bonus
I spent those 5 hours calling out and coordinating, paid off, we won but it is very complicated! I can't see how a clan without Discord or Telegram can do this at any efficiency. Also agree on the rewards... it's CLAN WARS,, not individual rewards...Everyone should get a reward!
Congratulations! Side question. Did you manage it so that everyone could get at least one win (on offense or defense), while coordinating defender teams and attack locations? If so, how did you manage it? If not, those clan members who end up getting nothing may be less enthusiastic in their support going forward.
@@brent8783 Unfortunately the Clan we faced was too strong to get my little guys a hit in, and I explained the unfair rewards system. They were sad but said they'd try harder next time so they could get a reward. They know the reward system is bad, and are patient thank goodness!
Kinda wish they'd run a limited test group like they did for Live Arena to get feedback
I don't think plarium understand what foresight is. 😂
Don’t worry everyone, Plarium is making sure that the new coming FATELESS turn based RPG Hero collectors game is a massive success!!!
Thank you Plarium!
In 3 years time 😂😂😂😂
This exactly happened to our clan - we have like 8 ppl getting nothing.
Also, I am afraid that once the matchmaking gets right, it will be all-kill bonanza. I.e. both clans will kill everything and it will end up in a draw.
the biggest part of coordinating this siege from my clan was ensuring our weaker members actually had attacks they could win
''No one wins in a war'' be applied here
its a video game... dont waste my time.
No one but the bankers and politicians anyway 😉
Plarium teaching kids life lessons.
the winner does nut
the reserve teams are for weak members in clan to not screw team
You're telling me Raid made a decision that doesn't respect people have lives outside of the game?!?
I'm shocked I tell you, shocked!
Well, not that shocked.
What do you think about the clans leaving empty defenses so reserves are used by strongest clanmembers? You have to tell weaker players not to set ANY defense so the krakken members get extra defense placed. They cant even get defense if you want to be really competitive.
I could be totally wrong here but as clans upgrade buildings that means more defenses can be added, so eventually every member may need to use 3 attack keys. So it looks like Plarium dished the resources like everyone had max'ed buildings. But since it just started and no clan has max'ed out its buildings these now extra keys are getting used but potentially at the cost of someone else getting left behind. Just like match making, thought out, well I'm doubting that.
They give you more atk scrolls i think.
I'm in a small clan that where most of the members don't use Discord. It was really hard trying to coordinate the siege attack just using the in-game chat. We won and destroyed everything in the opposing base, but we had 8 members who login later in the day who never got a chance to make an attack. It really sucks that 8 of our members now won't get the victory chest.
Yes, unattacked defence should also be counted as succesfull defence, strong defence repels attackers. Noone wants to waste attack scrolls in hopless fight against strong def, he has no chance to win against
There is another scenario that happened in my clan. We were matched against a weak team, on ATK my clan colleagues went through the team easily, several clan mates did not get a chance to fight an ATK. And the opposing clan are not attacking us so even if they have a defence in place they are not being matched. I won’t get anything.
Thank you for bringing these issues to light.
True. If your defence is scary enough to not get attacked, it should count as a victory.
Thanks for the heads up! That really sucks
"How did this happen?" Easy: Plarium.
If your clan is well organised, you can let everyone have their offense or defense win before going to a second use of attack scrolls.
Btw, I agree on your idea of counting the re-battle possibilities as attack in the process of rewards (if you don't have a lot of champions, maybe you can focus on a single winnable fight)
Unless they leave the match making completely screwed up as it is now (looking at arena, that is very likely, actually) be real, you ain't ever seeing that 7k points. And I feel anyone participating should be getting rewards, regardless of winning a fight, or even winning overall. Yes, better rewards for winning, but why shouldn't you get anything at all, if you did your best to support your clan and participate in this event. Reward system needs a complete overhaul.
*clan gets completely walked over despite throwing everything they had at it and gets no rewards to at least help them improve over time*
Plarium: I'm sure they'll be able to do better next round!
There is milestone rewards for everybody.
But I do agree with giving participating rewards when your clan won but you lost your individual battle.
The bigger issue, is if you have 2 evenly matched clans, and both clans destroy every bldg, it ends in a tie, and no one gets any of the rewards either.
This! Eventually matchups will be even. So this will be a reality for many
That’s not true. You don’t get any final chest but you get milestone rewards
yesterday i did adress this on the raid discord suggestion channel
that i would like the: "you have to win one fight" changed
because people in my clan have a wide spread in player power
the weaker ones have a really hard time to get this done
sadly the player base did vote it down
edit: to give players/plarium the benefit of the doubt...
maybe they are afraid that it could be abused
like you buy yourself into a strong clan and get carried
so maybe the rewards have to be downgraded in tier when you don t win a fight?
The problem is so obvious, so would thought Plarium dont see it as problem. They did change the reward, so I'm sad I didnt do when it was launched. Lets hope they will now fix anyway
Imagine that Plarium will give a game content which is not totally buggy or a punch into the face of the players....would be a novum
Haha, this was me. Set my defences a weeks ago. Wake up a week later and siege was over.
Ooof just checked how much the repairs cost - our clan lost and will _never_ be able to repair the towers. This is just crappily balanced.
2x2000, 4x1000, 3x1500 Gold: 12'500 Gold to repair all of them.
Regarding the tier points, everybody in T6 started with 2100, you gain 6 points for winning a fight (either attack or defense) and lose 6 points for losing.
The fact that your clan is now below 2100 just means that you lost more fights than you won. Depends on how they do it for the next siege, most likely you will get demoted to T5 and get matched with clan in the similar point range but we will find out for sure in less than 2 weeks.
Had to edit this in as I just found that I did in fact win a defence battle, 2 in fact from my secondary just thrown in team lol, so that is why I received the gear reward, I will cut that bit out...
We are facing an obviously stronger clan than our own but we are doing as well as could be expected with the matchup. However, this will even out after 2/3 rounds I expect (hopefully) and then we will be in a position of... NO ONE WINS as we will be evenly matched and likely to win/defend equally as well as the opponent. This might well be slightly different at the very top because the gulf in class from the top 10/20 clans and the next 40/50 clans is stark, so expect CC's in top clans to reflect their experience as it's everyone else's experience, which it is not, nor will it ever be.
This is Hydra Clash all over again (under 35mil and you get nothing beyond the usual hydra box, no matter where your clan places), and I can say that as a PvE player with a toe in PvP, this is going to go the way of Santranos, LA and Hydra Clash, a dead zone for the majority of clans/players with just the most competitive (top clans) actually playing seriously who believe everyone else is also as engaged as them but really couldn't give a crap because it's a Whale/Kraken/end gamer's playground as usual instead of a lvl 45+ mode that it has been promoted as and where the majority of players are in that level 50-90 range who will just throw some random teams wherever just to look like they are playing this mode, but are just going through the motions. There has to be a winner, period! If Paylarium want us to play then let someone win every time. This is not football (soccer) where a draw may have some value. All the real value is in the winners box and one clan should get it every time, or people will abandon this as quickly as they did Santranos imo. Fix it fast Paylarium, or sit back and watch another of your recent releases turn to dust again real soon.
It's only the Victory Chest that's locked
@@swannkyh4834 Yes it is, but you still have to win or successfully defend once to get the gear once points total has been achieved by the clan. The system is designed to create the majority of fights ending in a draw for all the reasons I, others' and Saph have pointed out. No win, no winners box period. I really hope they change the system so someone wins every time, or why bother if you know it's 90% certain your going to end up with nothing even if you don't lose. No point even participating imo.
You took up way too much time out of your day to write something this long that noone will read
@@kingpinballer242 I read it
@@kingpinballer242 I guess you missed the likes which shows otherwise, and you took too much time out of your day writing something so inane.
Great job pumping out content about this! Hopefully Plarium will keep listening to our feedback about this.
The most important problem remains... the people that cheated still got to keep their building upgrades. I quit. I wrote a very comprehensive and heartfelt post about it in Discord a week go. They reward the people that hurt the game and other players. They refuse to do anything about it. I have been playing for 4 years... I am lead of a stong clan. We do not cheat. We contribute to the game and community. They reward cheating players at the harm of good one. Its intolerable. They deserve their cheaters... and lose the good ones. Blessings all... I recommend finding a game where your not abused. ML and Blessings all!
How did they cheat?
as someone who barely keeps up in pvp modes i got a few ideas on how to make Clan Siege viable for everyone:
- increase points earned for battles won and towers destroyed. makes it easier to reach higher tier rewards
- make everyone viable for victory chests who either 1) won a defensive/offensive battle 2) wasn't attacked at all 3) spend all his attack and re-battle scrolls
- drastically increase the fragments earned per Siege to avoid forcing your players to play this (currently) stupid ass game mode for years to earn that champion
Im glad that you discussed this. I did mention the 60-90 problem in your discord yesterday.
This is only a problem right now at the start while everyone has LvL1 buildings. when things are upgraded it opens more Defense slots, and therefore more Atks will be able to be performed.
now its completely unmanageable, leaders should be able to remove defences, and allow or disallow attack or maybe akt phase should last as many days as attack tokens a player has basically 1 token per day, or give rewards to anyone who put a defense as youve said, I agree...
when siege went live i was at work. by the time i got home and logged onto raid (A GAME) after sorting the kids out, cooking, getting the kids to bed and then relaxing with my game siege was over for me. nothing to attack. thankfully i had my defense teams in stronghold and we still hold ours BUT still it sucked i had no chance to attack anything
That level of co-ordination is anathema to me, and I disliked PvP in the first place. It's like they made a mode to drive me from the game.
My big idea was, let players 2-on-1 a defense and spend 2 attack tickets. We know it’s possible because we already face 2 bosses in cursed city. Just add that idea to a live arena interface, and 2 players could fight a single defense.
I'm seeing a different problem in my more casual clan, kind of the opposite problem. While we had sufficient participation over 12 days to put up a full defense (about 23/30), we are getting somewhat less participation on attack, so we will win, but we probably won't take either mana shrine. These are adults with lives and schedules and its just 2 days in the middle of the week. By the time these players have time to look at the Siege tab the attack phase will be over.
To be fair upgraded buildings will require more attack to take down allowing more people to partecipate
Not every clan has 30/30 my dude. They have to balance it somehow, but the issue is that Plarium is sticking to their motto: "Better than nothing, but not by much!". Therefore they're not really interested in creating an infrastructure around a mode, just looking to get people to drop cash.
Happened to me lol, my clan destroyed everything easily, i only took a mana shrine at the end, and the enemy team never got to any of my defenses ... lol ... no chest for me.
AND I'M THE EFFIN CLAN LEADER TOO xD
That is something your clan leaders need to tell your clan. Dont waste all your keys losing to the same defense. If you lose a speed race then let everyone else know your speed so no one loses a key going into the speed race blindly after you. This is the first time my clan actually talked and worked together to achieve a goal. This mode needs some improvements but I like it so far.
also - so many games have people who free load on others hard work - contribute very little and gain - so it is good that they get nothing - with the exception of selfish clans that take all the turns when people are offline due to timezone differences
We fixed it by just having some simple rules, like don't use more than 2 attack scrolls for the first 24 hours. We also made sure to save a few posts for players who didn't have a chance to attack yet.
Our opposing clan did a real good job of working through us, until they caught my clan mate, and they hit a hard standstill in the stronghold, and will now get nothing.
I wake up early in the morning for work and I was barely able to get a battle in. If I woke up at a normal time I would have missed out completely.
I think after the buildings are upgraded, the number of attacks required will increase as the number of defense slots in each building will increase. At that time the 90 atk scrolls and 90 rematch scrolls will be good to have. Every clan member will start having more chances to fight and win to get the rewards.
In the section just below the part you read--Victory Medal Rewards: "Regardless of the results of the Siege, all clan members can collect Milestone Rewards when the Clan collects a certain number of Victory Medals." So just the Victory Chest is contingent on 1 battle victory (but I agree a mana shrine rebattle victory should count for this).
When buildings are upgraded, more defense slots will become available. Which means more opportunities later on to attack
As a clan leader, I have feedback for the first Siege. We were matched against a clan with more than double of our player power and we got absolutely decimated. It is what it is, for the first rounds match making can be an issue.
But that's not the biggest issue, on defence every building that I have is destroyed. Then on offence, we only managed to win four fights. I won all of mine hoping to crack some hard teams so my clan could find matches more suitable to them. Only one more of my players managed to win one of theirs.
So the real problem is that we won a total of 120 Florence. Now we have to Repair every single building that we have and it will take us literally months if not years to recover from this first bad matchup
And that's just to make repairs that's got nothing to do with upgrading anything. The only way that we will have a shot to repair anything is if we get to fight a clan, that's similarly lower than us, and we absolutely decimate them, which I don't really want to do to anyone else either, because it takes the fun
out of the mode
In short I just think we're penalized way too harshly for having a bad matchup that's out of our control. We need a little Grace for these first couple of rounds, a way to repair and maintain if not upgrade, and I know I can’t be the only one in this position
Absolute fantastic feedback! I'll send this to plarium (if i can)
Not getting 7k isnt an issue. Happens all the time in cvc where you dont get ALL the accessories. Can we as a community stop nitpicking everything and focus on the major complaints so that some things may actually get addressed. Good day.
greetings from the oblivion cluster :)
for us it was a total wipe on attack and we also got wiped on defence in the first 4 hours. I guess both clans got 5000 points of flat stat feral items to burn chaos ore on. I actually assumed everyone would wipe since attackers get to select who armanz sheeps and have 3 retries.
We had the scrubs go in first and the whales saved keys to break harder stages, some of the whales never got to fight because of this.
I guess you just have to make it a clan rule. only use 1 key on day 1!
same issue with Elite clan quests. not enough quests exist for all members so its 1 quest per member on the first day. that system hasn't changed.
an easy fix would be placing a defence team (win or loose) on the map give you participation if your clan wins.
The gear on the battle report isnt a comparisin, you get the gear reward when you reach that milestone. Ive received 2 Feral gear pieces from it.
i also think another option for reworking this is the clan leader gets a messege pop up in the following format .... Member A, B C and D didnt participate in the siege successfully, do you want them to receive a victory chest? yes or no. this would allow new members, members on holiday, working etc etc to get rewards still at the clan leaders discretion.
My clan did really well, as we won all our attacks, but only have 15 members, even after wonning all the fights we didn't have enough attacks left to attempt the stong hold, absolutely gutted. Disparity of upcoming clans is quite sad and such a bad implementation
As someone from the opposite end of the clan power level. My problem is getting the clan to actually use their attacks and even place their defence. I wonder if there needs to be 3 levels, the bottom level is maybe half what it is now, mid level is what it is now and top level is 1.5x what it currently is. I'm at the point where if I want to enjoy this game mode I'll have to leave my clan and join a bigger one.
every player should be able to attack all destroyed buildings too in order to get the win
Tier 3 clan Deputy here tasked with coordinating this. I will say in my clan i got about 75% of people to respond and do the strategy in place. Which was simple. Donate your mana orbs and florins to upgrade the stronghold. Since we lack whales i went with defensive upgrades instead of offensive since it will just generically weaken the enemy team. We matched up against a weaker clan and have dominated. People who didn't participate wont be getting rewards and will be getting kicked. Siege and hydra and discord is now going to mandatory and i will just kick members who don't communicate
First siege has been pretty fun to be totally honest. Everyone seems engaged. Count mana shrine re-battles as victories and problem solved. My defenses were deep in the stronghold/shrines and never saw a battle as other clan couldn't quite get there.
Seige is something our clan was interested in doing, I am now confident after 1 go they probably will not do the next one...
This was my first and biggest concern with seige when the siege was presented. Can believe I was the only one, so Plarium got to have known about it.
But its even worse as there seems not to be any tiebreakers
We had a great experience in my clan on this first Siege and as one of the leaders of the clan I agree here. It is not fair at all to the 5 clan members who participated and have been an integral part in our win but will not get any rewards, just because nobody attacked them and they used all their attack scrolls but couldn't managed to win any battles. We won because our defense was really strong, so we won in part because of those 5 members.
I was being a team player and waiting for best use of my attacks and my clan wiped the board. Luckily I win a def battle. Players are gonna go in and attack randomly to get their rewards and puss their clan off.
I didn’t get to do any attacks. Great video
It sucks :( huge oversight from plarium
Dear Saph, good to see you. Hope you're doing well. Being in a clan that just lost, I see another Big Problem. I think florin costs are insane. Repairs alone put you in a downward spiral, where it's hard to recover from. Maybe you can raise awareness for this also. Or let me know if you think otherwise. Anyway keep up the good work. thx a lot & cheers
I'm lost about why mana shrine re-battle don't count for victory chest condition. It's not like the defense gets easier after it's beaten.
To be fair even though the system may seem kinda bad. I think the whole thought process from paylarium was to get clans to start actually acting like a cohesive group. Doing things like Scheduling atks with all other members to make sure everyone gets things done together and bring the whole togetherness feel people have been asking about from clans. If you have a clan leader it's his or her job to delegate properly to ensure the success of every member. It's hard, but it's designed to get everyone one in a clan to actually feel like they are apart of the whole democracy that is a clan. Now what they could benefit from is a better in-game chat system.
Nicely done, Saph! When I was watching your "the rewards stink" and "they buffed the rewards" videos, I was shaking my head when you were focusing on the amount of time it takes to get the new champion while focusing on >= 50% win rate part of your table (mostly on 75-100%), thinking, for >90% of players, that's not going to be possible.
First issue: If the matchmaking system is working, you should do better than your opponent every other clash (ideally 50% win rate in a well-implemented matchmaking system).
Second issue: Even before this video, we knew that you can only win by taking the opponent's stronghold. According to the system as designed, it should be possible for both teams to fail taking a stronghold, meaning the "ideally 50% win rate ..." is something less than 50%. Add to that, the stronghold is likely the most well defended location (again, by design).
Now add this revelation that your clan can win, but you must also defeat an opponent, either on offense or defense. Again, as you stated, there are many scenarios where that won't happen, even for high-contributing clan members.
The TLDR summary is that the realistic range for most players will likely be between 25% and 50% win rate.
Going back to your last video, that means it will take 1-3 years for the vast majority of players (in tiers 2-5) to acquire Lamasu, after the reward buffs (3-8 years before the buffs).
We got exactly this problem. We tried to hold back after we got stronghold down. But ppl missed message and now 2 ppl are locked out of getting rewards. We even send opponent our post speeds so they could get up to their defenses but they are to weak to get there
The problem i have is 2 new members in my clan, didnt donate, didnt put a team in, and stole 4 atk battles from members who donated and put team in, and they were left out the rewards.
Agree with the issues, also having ~2 weeks for defense, and 2 days to for offense is lopsided. Make it so you can only use one attack a day (solves the 'rush' attack scenario), and extend attack to at least 3 days, maybe just 1 week for each mode.
Siege could have been a better system if they had just structured it like Doom Tower. With lowest power players at the bottom and highest power players at the top. Each player sets 3 defenses for rounds 1 through 3 of a "level" of the Siege (i.e., Doom Tower). And the clan that climbs the highest wins. With some sort of tie breaker, like fewest turns or something like that.
It's sad that with the current system players may not get any rewards, even if they want to participate.
What we did as a clan was on tuesday we used 2 attacks then use the other on Wed to allow everybody to get a turn. And hey on wed my fight was against a team with a higher team power and I won.
OBV stands for Oblivion! We are a cluster clan, with 60+ active clans!
Does offence include mana tower rematch? If it does it’s basically infinite
Nope
We have 6 members who won't get anything then. And it's not as if at least 3 of those haven't been pulling their weight; they went in and sacrificed teams to get intel for other players to go and win attacks. I'm gutted to learn about this cause we will have a revolt because of this.
I coordinated our whole siege effort and we did fantastically. We're headed to getting all rewards, except some of our team are now going to lose out despite being instrumental in our success. That's a shame.
In fact, one of these players attacked and lost what looks like at least 10 battles. He worked hard and put in effort. He's getting nothing. I am gutted for him.
Conversely, someone in the clan hasn't logged in since the attack phase started and snuck in a defence in a mana tower behind more active players. So he'll get a reward, and he did nothing.
I think, every player should be able to attack every building, if another one has killed the defence, ok, than it will give no points, but you could get our 1 win
Easy fix - set a rule - dont be selfish - our clan gave instructions and had us hold back so everyone could get a win. any weak defences were saved for our smaller accounts to attack - just like with the clan quests - one each in first 24 or 48 hours - anyone who brakes that rule gets kicked out.
I'm having the issue where i claimed the first two gear chests, but only got one piece of gear..
Does a win not count if you do it via a rebattle on the shrines? It doesn't seem to count those towards your attack victories. Maybe they should do like what they do with clan boss and make everyone available to attack again once all teams are defeated.
So incredibly unimpressed with Siege. I waited 2 weeks to do two arena battles. Wow what a great extension of the game. I'm going to spend hours and hours and hours preparing for these two battles😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
I also woke up to an almost complete siege.
On my FTP account we were matched against a clan with only 12 easy teams on defense. We were done before I woke up. I am in the top three accounts for the group. I get nothing. Never had a chance to do anything.
i agree...i had same thoughts.
Wait isn't it different if you use your champs on attack than defensive
those 60 defenses....does that include towers with upgrades?
I'm still concerned about what happens after it's over. The florins (I think) are used to rebuild you defenses. If you've just taken a heavy loss, you won't have extra florins and therefore you might not get back to 100%.
This makes it harder for those who have lost to get their next win. Vice Versa, kraken clans who will win every time will have abundance of orbs and florins to become ever tougher the next round.
Punishing the weak, and rewarding the strong. Hmmmmm.
about the 90 attacks and 60 defense, that is only when we all have lvl 1 buildings, with level 3 buildings it will be different will it not? The way I have understood it we get more defense spots when we upgrade. If we ever get enough coins.
about the winning the offense or defense. Does the mana shrine "rebattle" counts? Ohh apperently not as you mentioned that later on.
Thinking about this isn't it a bit as "clan quests" if the clan doesn't have any rules about letting everyone have a shot at the "expert" quests. There is only 30 of those and you can take 3 quests.
As a clan you could say, only 1 attack the first day OR plarium can go in and make sure we can only take 1 quest day 1, and then another day2 etc etc, AND do the same with siege, give us the attack keys as the time goes.
My clan also got paired up with one of OBV's sister clans, and we are a level 15 clan against a 17, we got destroyed. Not even 2k victory points, and our lower level players cant get anything.
My current clan is never going to win a clan siege, there is no communication at all going on and I personally will not be able to participate because as it's lined up I will always be in my night shift for work during the battle phase and my clan will beat all the "easy" fights before I get a chance to fight.
As if he just called a player with 4 5-6* awakened mythicals as a good player. They're only good because their wallet is stuck open.
Keep in mind they said the matchmaking would be based on the leaderboards for the initial siege, and here we got Saphs clan getting trounced by a clan that has no business going against his.
I have one clan that got a clan that said "fuck this" and didn't even set up. On my main, we got a clan where the beginning stages have teams that are unbeatable for the lot of us.
Great mode, 10/10 piece of garbage. Once again, every negative prediction on this mode was made true. Just another day at the office for Plarium.
3 years of dev time for this shitshow. THREE. YEARS.
Plarium still doesn’t understand the term, “personal rewards” in CvC, so they’re going to have to prove they have the energy to fix this before I give them the benefit of a doubt.
I hope Plarium spends more time on making this good because it really feels like a beta.
Forget Siege. I'm totally tired of that UA-cam Premium red dot. I don't want to have anything to do with it. Please remember for Fateless. You can't make me do anything, but you can annoy me enough times to contemplate leaving.
I love it already got 2 chests.
Not even florins and mana to help team for next siege ehehe, clan leaders will start to cilcle members, to renew mana and florins, some got to test this theory.
I just wonder who will get the rewards if you completely destroy eachother, if you destroy all the places you end up at 5k points, both clans destroy everything and both end up at 5k points, who wins?
Everyone has 3 defences and everyone has 3 attacks so everyone is guaranteed to be able to fight
All of this is a HUGE problem for the game mode and they need to take ALL of these suggestions before the next one or it's dead on arrival.