Physical effort, What physical effort, all that puffing and panting means he is not fit. Must be a 20 -40 year old who wrote that as they don't like a bit of graft. I use Concrete everytime and make my own spurs better than bought ones.
I've used both over the years. Postcrete is a lot faster, and no cleanup to barrow, spades, etc. It also hardens off from moisture in the soil over an extended period, gradually solidifying more & more over weeks, if the ground is generally wet, so doesn't need as much water as shown. Keep adding water to the area, if needed in dry conditions, and it'll be fine. Exposed wood at the base doesn't really matter, as oxygen is very low there, and the rot is usually more of a problem at the top of the concrete, where surface soil is in contact with the post, so building up the concrete above soil-level is a good idea. Also consider what happens in 10-20 yrs, when you need to replace the post - trying to break out full-fat concrete is a real pain once the post has broken off at the base, but post-mixes usually break up easier. Concrete for concrete posts, postcrete for timber posts. Or combination of postmix first to quickly hold position, & concrete at the top? Wear a decent mask.
@@eowenspa2 There comes a point when it's all more effort than it's worth to set a post. Quick & easy is my preference, and what I Post-creted 25 yrs ago, it's the timber that's failed, not the Post-crete. And the Post-crete is a damn-sight easier to knock out & replace than hardened concrete.
I agree I would sooner remove a post installed with postcrete rather than premixed. It still holds the post but will break up so much easier when needs to be removed. I don’t know anyone would do this without ever having done it before. Waste of time using premixed concrete, ITS A FENCE POST NOT A SUSPENSION BRIDGE FOR GODS SAKE
I'm putting in a 6ft x 5ft garden gate wich will have 60 to 70+ mile an hour wind thrown at it through the winter what would you suggest I use, post crete or proper concrete 🤔, I'm in Scotland so we do get very high winds. Ty
Used postcrete loads. Work’s absolutely perfectly. You do not need such a big hole and one bag per post pretty much does it. It’s for fence posts not foundations for a skyscraper!
Exactly what I was going to say. I have used postcrete for both concrete and wooden posts. For a 4 inch post I usually dig a 8 to9 inch diameter hole 18 to 20 inches deep, put the post in, fill to about 3/4 with the dry postcrete, water in, then add some more postcrete, a bit more water on the top, smooth off. All done. You cant directly compare hand mixed concrete and postcrete. The whole point of postcrete is to consolidate the ground around the post, it doesn't need the strength of hand mixed concrete. Just consider this, A typical telephone pole is 8 metres in length, a powered auger is used to drill a hole between 1.2 and 1.5 metres in depth. The pole is then planted in this hole, and then a couple of bags of gravel is used to fill the gap between pole and the sides of the hole. That's it ! no concrete , just dry gravel.
Something that comes across strongly watching this, you are very experienced at using concrete but a beginner at using postcrete. I ran a fencing business in the 1970's and we mixed large amounts of concrete when putting in posts but these days when i help friends with their garden fences I always use postcrete for ease. And I do it carefully making sure the mixing is effective. Using a metal bar rather than a piece of wood to thoroughly mix all the way to the base of the post.
Both ways you tried are something that personally, I would NEVER DO. When I moved into my house, over 20 years ago, the fence at the side of the drive was rotten. I decided that if I was to replace the fence myself, I better make sure that it not only lasted but was easy to repair if it ever needed doing again. This is what I did: 1) I dug the old posts out (12). 2) I then mixed concrete and instead of putting the posts in, I concreted 3 feet of fall pipe into the ground, making sure that the bottom of the pipe was still on soil. 3) A 4x4 fence post is a nice snug fit in a fall pipe but before pushing the posts in, I filled the pipes with about 5 inches of pea gravel and I soaked the bottom 3 foot of the fence posts in creosote for a few days. 4) I then pushed in the fence posts and filled round the edges with pea gravel. Why did I do this? When it rains, the water goes down the fence post and through the gravel into the ground like a mini soakaway at the bottom of each post. So far the posts are still solid after 20 years, but even if one did rot at the bottom, I merely remove some gravel and replace the post with no more digging of concrete bases EVER. I could literally replace a post in about 20 minutes and have the panels re attached. Hope this is helpful to anyone who is about to put up a fence, certainly something to think about if you are planning on staying in the house for a long time.
@@jordancox8280 The large pipe on the outside of a house that connects to the toilet. Sell them in diy shops and builders merchants. Basically any pipe that is a tight fit when a fence post is inserted.
@@jordancox8280 When I did my fence, I quickly realised that the reason the original fence posts had rotted was because rain water had soaked down the fence post and was trapped by the concrete. The standing water then rots the post over time. One thing I forgot to mention on my original post was the end caps on the top of the posts. I didn't use any but instead melted candle wax on to the top of them.
Speed's usually of the essence, so I tend to use postcrete. However, after a bit of trial and error many years ago, I tend to fill the hole in stages, i.e. bit of water, bit of postcrete, give it a good stir/tamp and then repeat until I'm at the top. Beats getting out the mixer or barrow and the speed of the accelerant really makes it a one-man job. Great comparison, though - another really helpful and informative video. Many thanks.
The blane size of ordinary Portland is milled for slow setting high long term strength, the quick setting postcrete is the type supplied to batching plants for quick setting early strength, ie roof tile molds. Ordinary Portland every time. It doesn't take much imagination to realise which would have the best frost resistance.
@@nigelmitchell351 When it boils down to it, I'm putting in a post, not building house foundations, so I'll take speed over long term strength, especially when working on my own.
@@neilmckie2768 Yeah but your customer will care when the shite breaks up in the frost and his fence falls over in the wind....... Do it right, do it once. Just like you'd want someone to do something for you .....
Regardless of whether you use Postcrete or (as I prefer) a concrete mix, a wooden post will rot within its 'socket'. I paint the post sides (to just above ground level) and post end with bitumen paint and allow it to dry for a few hours before setting into the hole, to sit on 2-3" of tamped gravel or stone to promote drainage. Add one or two struts to keep the post upright and in the correct alignment and pour in and tamp concrete mix in stages, adding some broken brick or stone lumps around the post after each pouring to both bulk out the filling and help to wedge the post. Make sure the concrete sits a little above the ground and slope it to allow surface water to drain away. If rain is likely, protect the concrete with pieces of brick or wood and leave until the next day before removing struts and fixing fence panels.
I prefer to spend a little more on the posts by buyjng postsaver posts, they have the shrink tube in place and prevent rot at the soil line which is always where 99% go rotten, got 3 to do soon, all 3 rotten at the soil line. Three postsaver posts ready to go in
I do the same, a neighbour's fence blew over last week 6 wooden posts rotted through just below the surface. I'm told, by wooden boat builders, completely saturated wood resists rot better than damp wood
I’ve used post mix a lot and found that putting the mix in the hole first then adding enough water so the initial mix is very loose then adding the mix till it thickens up. Also using a think piece of metal to mix so you can get right down into the mix
Many years ago I worked for RMC (Rugby Cement, now Cemex) and our postcrete instructions recommended adding the mix to the hole then the water after. One thing that many people don't realise is that cement hardens in a chemical reaction. It is also exothermic (it gives off heat) and the speed of setting is sensitive to ambient temperature. So in cold weather it sets slower and in hot weather it sets faster. We used to recommend a kettleful of hot water in cold conditions to help with setting time.
Interesting comparison. Been using postcrete successfully for many years now, mostly because of the speed of set. However you're absolutely right about the product instructions. You definitely need two bags or more per hole and I quickly realised its better to add product and water together as you fill the hole, ensuring it is mixed as you go. As an alternative i have also mixed the postcrete with water in a barrow and shovelled it into the hole.I also fill with product to the top of the hole! Theres also no reason why you can't put gravel in the bottom first (I do). I have also found the relative softness of the cured product a boon on a couple of occasions where i have had to move a fence, because its much easier to break up than concrete, but ive never had any issues with it's strength. One thing I definitely agree with though is the higher cost, and its cost has increased significantly over the years i have used it, especially in comparison to ballast etc.
Quikcrete over in the US actually instructs users to add the post mix first, then inundate with water. Seems strange to me that Blue Circle suggests adding water first - exactly what I would expect to happen, happened!
Never used Postcrete but I'd agree with you about the softness and ease of removal when required. Whenever I've pulled timber posts set by the housebuilder it's been a lean mix that did the job but broke up fairly easily - important as timber posts have a limited life until a spur is needed..
I did this job for the first time recently. Not knowing any better I used Postcrete. Took forever to get the hole a third full of water but once I did I dumped in a bag and stirred it around. Like you it wasn't enough so I threw a bag of gravel in there too. The hole was tapered-out as it descended in the hope that that was a good idea... And before lowering in the post I hammered in some metal pegs I found in the shed so they were splayed out into the ground with a few inches in the hole itself (at this point I was getting impressed with myself for my over-engineering skills). Once dry I covered the last few inches with soil precisely as you showed I shouldn't. We'll see how it goes. I'm near the coast with some serious winds blowing through. Next time I'll follow your instructions and use concrete. That was the longest story about digging a post hole ever. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I enjoyed the digging. :-) Thank you for your advice.
Can you elaborate? I’ve used postcrete and have done by just pouring it into the hole and just leaving it to go off as trying to add water during the process doesn’t work as it goes off too quickly.
May I ask: do you (a) fill the hole with dry postcrete by, say, 1/4, then add water, and repeat the steps until the hole is filled up; or (b) pour postcrete all the way to the top then finally add water?
@@gazingstone4577 I probably fill it about 80% dry and then top it off with water and use something that can get down deep to mix it but you have to be quick. My theory is, even if you don't get enough water to the bottom, it should absorb it from the ground
I've never had issues with postcrete. In my experience it goes off quickly to a level sufficient to support a post but then gets stronger over time as it absorbs water from the surrounding soil. It looks to me like you added far too much water. Rather than a 3-day test you need a 3-month test.
@@gregwade7974 Exactly. What would you rather dig out of a hole in a tight space. A hole with postcrete or concrete. I don't need to be killing myself trying to break up the Hoover Dam!
@@gregwade7974 - - ha ha, in my country there are 40+ year old timber posts - mostly simply fixed in rammed clay, the secret is, not being forced to use rubbish timbers for construction (Not sure if quality timber is available here any more, but many old post and rail fences will probably outlast the light duty steel types (heavy gauge galvanised steel SHS will last longer)..
For those reading these comments and wanting to know which option is best, remember wooden fence posts do not last forever and will need to be replaced at some point in the future. Therefore, the fixing material needs only to be strong enough to support the wooden post over its natural lifetime, which may only be a few years depending on the quality of the timber, the prevailing conditions and the quality of the installation. As the professionals have already said, postcrete will work perfectly at supporting a wooden post for the duration of its lifetime. And perhaps more importantly, is easier to remove and replace than concrete when you inevitably have to replace the post in the future. If you want to never have to do the job again then fit a concrete post that can't rot, otherwise accept that wooden posts don't last forever and use whichever method you want.
I have used Postcrete on hundreds of fencing jobs and have never had any problems. Your cost comparison appears to be based on DIY projects and not commercial projects. Using Postcrete alleviates the requirement of a concrete mixer, the space needed to mix the concrete and clearing the mess after. Also handling Jumbo bags of ballast weighing 800kg in a back garden is difficult. The next problem is that using ordinary concrete, the posts have to be propped overnight which then means a second day’s visit to install the panels. Using Postcrete means that panels can be fitted the same day and smaller jobs are completed in one day which is cheaper and more efficient than having to return a second time. In firm/hard ground, it is possible to only use 1 bag per hole.
Fully agree. I've just done a 15 metre stretch using 12 stobs down to 600mm and 2 bags postcrete per 2.4m x 100x100 stob. Did that early doors in the morning and by the end of the day, the whole job was finished. Left it all for a week then went back to trim the stobs and everything was bar tight, zero movement on the stobs.
What a great video and explanation. I used Postmix for the first time a few months ago and am so relieved that you came across the same experience and questions. I got to the point that I thought I had just not read the instructions correctly. Plus yes, I had to run off to the suppliers to get another two bags. Once finished, as I turned to clean and put away the tools, I muttered to myself that at least it will be easier to get the stuff out when I need to replace the post.
I have set many many street lamp columns over the years and have always used a dry mix. Never added any water at all, just allowed capillary action to draw the moisture from the soil. The longer it's left, the harder it gets. I looked at postcrete recently when setting heel drain in the garden, and the contents showed "blue portland clinker" which is possibly why they recommend filling the pot with water.
I always use post create and tip water straight into hole and immediately pour in the create. None of my fences have blown down. And some are standing after 15 or more years, I admit that concrete is stronger. But post create certainly does the job 2feet down a foot across 2/3bags per post. Then leave overnight. Fix fence move on. But thanks for taking the time to show us your thoughts experiences
My great uncle was a fencer, as am I. He never set timber posts in concrete as he reckoned concrete shrinks and timber shrinks, allowing water ingress and accelerating rot. For a 6’ fence, he’d be using a minimum of 9’ posts, usually pressure creosoted, backfilled and rammed.
My preference is a concrete stub post set in with concrete and bolt the wooden posts to the stub. It is a lot more expensive but more durable. If the wooden posts rot or split over the years you swap out the wooden posts without all the digging. You may need new bolts. Likewise I prefer arris rails and boards to panel fencing. More forgiving in high winds and damaged parts can be replaced. Pays yer money and make yer choice. In the long run it is cheaper. Fence between neighbour and me is over 25 years old and only had a few boards replaced.
Depends on the ground. How wet it gets, or how water logged it is when the job needs done! Sandy machair land doesn't tamp in the slightest for any length of time. Then, running through a peat bog has issues when tamping, as you loosen the ground around where you've tamped. Get in amongst large rocks and have issues where posts are being cut to make do, and you need the solid anchorage.
Watched a couple of your videos and really enjoyed the candour and craftsmanship. I especially appreciated the problem solving bit in the middle of this one where you lever the posts out after realising they'll effin heavy! Thanks also for the wee bit of advice around the hole diameter. Not seen this mentioned and only seen depth being important.
I worked in landscaping and to put posts in i would mix a bag of postcrete in a barrow and tip it in dry. Level the posts then come back and top up with ballast and cement. Meant you could plumb the posts with a level and not have to brace the posts but not waste 2/3 bags per post. Works out strongest and cheapest.
Hi Stuart . Thanks for this video , having used the postcrete product it did seem to work for me . But having said that I did wonder what was going on underground , which you’re demo has explained . With my little project I was able to use the first post to support the fence panel so working out the position of the next , and so to continue the project on the same day . Obviously your preferred method is the best , but to accurately set the spacing of the posts for preformed fence panels is no easy task . I personally would find it quite difficult , but with your skill set you would have no problem . Best wishes and kind regards. 😀👍👍👍
Very enjoyable and informative. I've used postmix many times but concluded that in general a concrete mix is superior on results and cost. Really made me laugh when you dug out the post!
Great to see the comparison, but after only 3 days? I would expect postcrete to take at least a week to solidify. We have hung 13ft farm gates on 8in posts, and still good, about 2 1/2 bags from memory. We always put aggregate in the bottom first. This allows you to get the post at exactly the right level, so no cutting after, and allows water to drain away from the bottom of the post. It will fill up in wet weather, even after curing. Great vid though, thanks.
I have successfully set many posts over the years using both postcrete and concrete, never used no where near the amount of water you have, concrete semidry mix, postcrete good wet hole no standing water in the bottom, damping the top is so you can shape it. Good video, interesting to see the finished results when you pulled them out, although I think the postcrete issue was because you used too much water.
Good video. Ive lost count of the amount of posts etc ive set using both, and your findings pretty much echoed what I initially found with postcrete bith when using and removing posts. I think once you understand postcrete and find the best way to use it (ie dont follow the instructions) it has its place, but I still think the 'traditional' method is better, especially for those diyers who lack experience of postcrete.
Great video, I've never used Postcrete & after watching your video never will. I thought you went above and beyond taking those posts out after all the hard work installing them...🙂🙂🙂
Thank you for a detailed and fair comparison. I've never resorted to Postcrete (and I've done a fair few posts) but faithfully mixed my concrete of ballast and cement - at least I now feel 'vindicated' for the hard work! Looking forward to your next project.
Really valuable vid. My dad has ALWAYS mixed proper concrete. I've used post crete. I've often wondered how crap post crete is! I've always assumed that there would be loads of holes down it. You mentioned a gravel bed to the hole, what about a dry mix of concrete, then post, then wet mix around it. That's what my dad does.
I'm a former fencing contractor in Melbourne Aust. Re 6' Paling fences between neighbours, I've used postcrete or what we call rapid set concrete. My method was to first fill the hole with 30mm of dry, then the post about 3 litres of water, then more concrete in about 3 stages, whilst continually mixing it in the hole with a small crow bar. I've never removed a new post to see the results.
Very informative video. Thank you. I helped my son in law build a garden fence couple year ago. We set the posts in Post crete. Great stuf. Posts were treated, then i painted them with fence on paint before we erected them.
I can't get enough of this channel! These are the things you would want to try yourself but you never get around to. The results were pretty much as I expected although I didn't expect the postcrete to be that soft. A couple of weeks ago I picked up some heavy posts from a fencing store and the gentleman there told me to do exactly what you always do: use regular concrete. He did advise to use a post safer or tar as well. I doubt it is needed when you fill up the hole with concrete all the way to the top though. Far less bacteria will be interested in concrete.
@@fencer39 If I remember correctly Stuart is a structural engineer. So sure that may mean he is not a professional brick layer, carpenter or electrician but he does understand how things work and how they should or could be done.
That lever method was what I used here to remove a line of posts with repair spurs attached. Used a bag of ballast on the end of the lever to hold it down while I wedged the mushroom of concrete to stop it falling back when I reset things.
Great video , i have been fencing for years i always use post Crete and 10mm gravel with no issues , its cheaper , it sets rapidly and has added strength with the gravel .
This has convinced me to use postcrete. Perfect for the job if you just want some fence posts to be held upright for about 20 years, and then relatively easy for the next person to break up the base. If you want to make it impossible for the next person to put in a new fence, or you are building something more permanent/more massive, then use proper concrete!
Let me tell you something! I’m a fencing contractor and postmix after at least 3 weeks in ground it will become as solid as marble! It is by no means at all weaker than concrete!
I remember seeing the thumbnail for this video when it came out and that is ultimately what got me back here, but I am sorely regretting not watching this before setting four posts at the weekend (with postmix) for a climbing frame. I was really not impressed with the postmix, and seeing the comparison here if I was doing it again I would most definitely use concrete, the question I now have to face is what I do with the post that I have already done... Thanks for the video.
I've done quite a bit of field (stob and wire) fencing and I fix my strainer posts in a completely different way. Wooden posts rot at ground level, when I replace a post the bottom of the old post is as fresh as the day it was put in because there is insufficient oxygen down there for insects and rot to exist. To stop the post rotting at ground level I use bitumen paint from 50mm above ground line to about 300mm below ground line. I use a heat gun to heat the bitumen so it really grips into the timber. After a few minutes cool time I give it another thick coat of bitumen. Then I wrap and staple heat shrink polythene over the bitumen and use the heat gun to carefully heat the polythene so it shrinks and melts the bitumen till it is squeezed out the top and bottom. The rule for this stage is keep the heat gun moving otherwise the polythene will melt and you'll get a hole. I run a wet sponge lightly from the middle up then down to squeeze out any air bubbles, but be very careful, get hot bitumen on your skin then it's skin graft time. I put the post in the hole making sure there is 50mm of the now bitumen sealed polythene above ground level. I back fill with soil compacting with a home made tool made out of steel section, basically 5ft (1500mm) length with a 6" (150mm) welded at right angle, so a 'T' shape. When I get about 100mm from ground level I stop backfilling with soil and use a spade to dig a square 2ft (600mm) by 2ft around the post. I find some half bricks or big stones and use a sledge hammer to smash them into the soil around the perimeter, leaving them sticking up out the soil to act as an anchor. I then mix 1-2-4 concrete using 10mm gravel and fill around the stones and pole to ground level sloping slightly so water flows away from the pole. If you're really keen you could silicone the junction between the concrete and polythene but I just paint it with more bitumen.
@@gwynsea8162 It is extra work but strainers are over £30 each now and digging the hole is way more work than painting and wrapping and I find the whole shrinking bit really satisfying. Removing a strainer that's rotted through and snapped at ground level is no fun at all, they can be buried 1.2 metres deep so anything that postpones that job is worth a little extra work. I'm experimenting now with 3" square posts and empty 2 litre plastic bottles. with the top and bottom of the bottle cut off it just slips over the post (or stob as we call them). Same procedure, bitumen paint, slip bottle over post, staple and use heat gun. The bottle shrinks down really well. On your second point about replacing posts for other reasons - I use the waste oil out the tractor thinned down with diesel and a ronseal sprayer to paint the posts once every couple of years. I also paint bitumen on the top of the posts to stop water getting in. Without doing all this then I've seen a post break after 10 years. Not rotten all the way through but weakened enough that a swinging gate or just re-tensioning the wires will snap it. Now, having said all this it'll be another 5 to 15 years before i know for sure that this works but so far it seems to be doing the trick.
Great video, thanks for sharing. I see another benefit of the Postcrete - you can re-use the posts in the future by just tapping the postcrete off after you dig it up!
Thank you first off for the effort you put in on this up , to go back and dig it up is something else 👍, I have never enjoyed using post mix and will be stopping that from now on 👍
Don't know why everyone isn't pre-mixing postcrete to avoid the issue identified here at the bottom around 16 mins. Yes you have to be a bit quicker, but much easier than using a stick in the hole.
I recently (couple years ago ) had to rip down a fence and rebuild it , all the posts that were done with postcrete had protruding post ends The only occasional ones that didn’t protrude ! We’re sitting on in deeper holes and had consumed two bags. The replacement posts were pug in with concrete
So glad someone did this. Had to put some posts into ground with a high water table recently and was deeply sceptical that postcrete would work well when poured into a hole half filled with water already, but had no other choice. Fortunately I wasn't building a big structure.
If your doing multiple posts, a cement mixer and making the concrete up and using a wheel barrow to take it to each post. The post mix really looks like a quick/emergency solution.
Another consideration is the following generation of DIYer who will need to dig out your fence posts when it's time to replace the fence and the posts have rotted. Postcrete is easier to break up while in the hole whereas concrete is a nightmare to try to remove. And since the stuff isn't structural it doesn't need to be as hard a normal concrete.
Agreed. I have turned down fence jobs before just because they'd used concrete. I can break out postcrete in 20 mins, concrete is almost impossible to remove with hand tools
Stuart, it would have been interesting to see the results after 3-4 weeks on the postcrete as some have said on here. Given its a new post a block on the side and a tractor jack would have been enough to lift the post. As always an interesting video but perhaps a revision video after 3-4 weeks on the postcrete is required?
After just finishing my back garden fence with over 20 posts using postcrete on my own I found it superb. Sets quickly so you can keep building. Saved time and effort
Hats off to you for doing all of this. I'm impressed. Gratefull and now know my concerns are justified. Real concrete is the winner on quality and cost.
That’s an interesting comparison. I think you’re missing an important criteria for an engineer though - even if it’s weaker, is the postcrete strong enough for the job it has to do?
Im not sure if anyone has already said this . - Postmix goes of quickly to allow you to continue the fencing job - It is more porous to allow water to escape if you put postmix under the post, the reverse is also applicable to allow water to get to dry powder - post mix is softer/brittle to allow you to break it out to replace the post. That being said I use both depending on the post, wood v concrete
I have worked as a merchant advising fencers, builders and retail and working with various big name suppliers for over 20 years now. This video is very well put together and informative. I especially agree with the opinion of NOT backfilling. A lot of customers these days don't want to see the concrete as they think its unsightly, however, this I believe is the main contributing factor to posts rotting caused by a soggy collar at ground level. You need to create a fall. I'm surprised that the postmix manufacturers recommend this.
Really interesting comparison. I've used both options before and found if the hole and post are not too big, postcrete usually works OK and goes off quickly. I did however sink new 175x175 gate posts last summer and tried to use postcrete again but the ground was too dry; I couldn't fill the hole with enough water to use postcrete. 1hr of running the hose simply wet the sides! Mixing a wheelbarrow of traditional concrete, as you did, solved the issue. Leaving them a couple of days before hanging the five bar gate seemed sensible, but I appreciate that may not be practical if you're a pro fencing/gate installer.
Awesome video. I have to admit, I’ve used postcrete a lot in the past despite having reservations about how strong it was compared to actual concrete. Now I have no excuses I’ll have to mix my own concrete 😢
Stuart that was interesting. Last time I put some posts in, they didn't have postcrete so I had to use concrete. I do feel though that you missed a step. After digging two holes, setting two posts and mixing two lots of concrete - that's got to have earned a beer.
I have recently done quite a large decking area that required 50 post hole and 50 bags of postcrete 😮 l found the best method was to fill the hole with water, then the postcrete then pierce several holes in the postcrete with a metal spike,then tamper round the post until the pierced holes fill up with the mixture. Seems to have worked a treat as the whole area is solid. Not cheap but saves a lot of work if you don't own a mixer.
Great Video. thanks for sharing this info. My dad showed me to place a rock, large pebble or ½ of an old brick under the post to shed off any water away from the base of the post, and also tapering the surface concrete away from the post ( rather than being flat at the top) so that no water stands there. When I bought a new build house years ago the builder had put a fence in and I extended it with a handful of panels using the method above. The builders posts are all long gone having rotted at ground level, and my posts are still there. Thanks Dad!
I worked on a job with a guy and he said “full the hole up and make soup”, now I’ve never read the post mix bag but I never full the hole up, I prefer to sprinkle the bottom of hole then fill up dry and mix up in the hole. I agree the gravel in the hole first is perfect for slight drainage against rotting. Great video this, nice one.
For what it’s worth, my experience with postcrete is as follows. Over the last 10-14 yrs I have fixed around 30 fence posts on my property. I always use 4”x4” wooden posts. I dig the holes 2 ft deep with a post hole digger, but dig it at the minimum size I can (around 8” across I would estimate). I only ever use 1 bag of postcrete per hole, and this usually fills it up to ground level (sometimes with a bit left over). None of the posts have even come loose, although a couple in the wetter areas of the garden have rotted over this last winter at ground level, and I have had to replace those 2 this year. For me postcrete is a no-brainer, and the slight increase in cost (at 1 bag per hole) is more than offset by the time saved in mixing and the fact that within 10-15 mins the post is solid enough that you can start fixing the fence to it.
Same for me. Hand Auger to bore the hole, or a hole digger, 4x4 post 2 feet deep and 'tamp mix' the Postcrete in the hole. I only use normal quick set concrete if replacement leaves a very big hole.
I worked 5 years putting in wooden posts for post and rail fencing with Postcrete and never had an issue, the more you disturb the ground the more Postcrete you need. I also dug 8 inch hole and one bag per hole and got my Postcrete at Wickes with trade discount. I always crown the bottom of the post to shed water.
Long arm post spade post diggers a breaker and one bag of postcrete per hole been doing for years not had any callbacks on posts prematurely rotting or coming loose. The fences have survived very strong wind and still not come loose
I can't read all the comments, but postcrete does set harder as it gets older. It's easier to drill out though, that MAY be a benefit, after all, it's holding up a post, not a bridge. That said, I had one that cracked and the post wobbled. I think my neighbour may have crashed a wheelbarrow into the post, but even so, that was a surprise. I don't always use the water in the hole technique though, I have added it later at that's worked fine. Eventually it all hardens no matter what. Really think I may use concrete in the future though. That dust is deadly af, and I tend to set concrete spurs these days, they would benefit from the extra strength. Great video.
A fascinating video Stuart. I would never have thought the PostCrete would have performed so poorly I’m guessing that the PostCrete would continue to cure and harden but the issue with the end of the post protruding is a big one. Keep up the fantastic input Stuart.
I am a fencing contractor for over 15 years and postmix will take at least 2-3 weeks to cure and let me tell you when it does it goes as hard as marble! Unfortunately this video isn’t as accurate as it could have been! We do however use a different brand of mix alongside this brand. We use a brand called remix has more aggregate in it too. Still a good demonstration nevertheless!
@@tonyjoe5707 if you have or can borrow a breaker it’ll make your life a lot easier! It’s best to dig down one side of the post then break down each side of the post to ‘pop’ of the side of the concrete, then remove post and then the remaining lump should fall into the hole and remove that too. In regards to setting new post just make sure you don’t over water the mix about a third of the depth is plenty! Post mix is designed to ‘pull moisture’ from surrounding soil/substrate. Don’t be shy to add a few Little Rock’s in the mix half way or so just make sure they have enough post mix around them too! We use at least two bags per 4x4 post and at lease three on a concrete post. Hope this helps regards
Stuart, never in 45 years in building trades have I lower myself to use postcrete, it's proper concrete everytime for fence & gate posts. And I sit my posts on half of a perforated engineering brick to allow water to drain, plus post in ground are painted with bitumen to ground level,got got posts I did 20 years ago, rot free & still in use.
How does the water drain if post is underground, under soil and presumably concrete if a perforated engineering brick is used? Is a french drain involved?
@stuartandrews4344 I've had post and rail around my property, which I constructed 40 years ago, I must admit they were pressure treated posts, but I only back filled with compacted earth, I've only had to renew three post's in all of that time from a total of 40+, when I renewed the post's I char burnt the portion of the post in the ground and slightly higher, this is what the Canadians do and they have been at it a long time, had I put them in concrete I think my work would have collapsed years ago, your idea of a brick at the bottom is good.
Great video Stuart, I have used postmix it's ok to replace a post , but you can't beat concrete mix , sand gavel cement Very useful video Thanks , take care and see you on the next one👍👍
Used both, never had an issue with either. The real world forces applied to the post doesn’t require really strong concrete. If ease of use and speed is your priority use postmix. If you have the time and want to save money then mix up your own concrete.
Great video, informative and well thought out. Spent a frantic 5 minutes setting a gate post yesterday with postcrete made all the harder when it started bouncing down with rain. Hindsight - standard cement ballast mix and a tarp would have been the easier and less stressful option however real life and it's time pressures got in the way. The rain definitely made the postcrete process more complicated!
If you have rubble , big broken bricks etc add these as you pour the postcrete in and use a stick to consolidate. You will use less postcrete and the stones add strength and help wedge in the post.
Perhaps, given that putting timber into the ground anyhow will not last too long, the softer Postcrete is better for removal too ? I have broken up a few concrete post bases; maybe Postcrete is easier. 😉
Great Video. I always use concrete, much more under your own control. Really interesting to see the results. Your efforts at getting the posts out was worth it :-)
Experience and exasperation led me to the same conclusions years ago. Postcrete (Postmix), seems to vary in quality from bag to bag - I've opened bags that seemed to have little, if any, Aggregate and others where its the main constituent... all purchased from the same supplier. Additionally, the Aggregate seems to be composed mainly of Crushed Stone rather than the mix of Crushed Stone & Gravel you'd use in a hand mix - which has a major impact on the strength of the mix. As far as I'm concerned, it's an utterly worthless product alongside the quality of the timber used for making the Posts currently available.
You are completely missing the point of postcreat because it sets qulkley you can do a 15 panel fence in one day without all the wheel barow mixing and all your wobeley posts because it takes 24 h
another one the neighbours will add to their "wtf is he doing list" putting in two fence posts right next to each other then ripping them out of the ground a few days later then jet washing them 😂
So, you're supposed to dig your hole slightly deeper than needed, and then lift the post after adding the first bag. This allows the postcrete underneath the posts to protect it. 👍
It doesn't matter if the water doesn't mix completely when you pour the mix in, in time the moisture will permeate through and cure. The post mix is adequately mixed straight from the bag from the point of view of cement to ballast. I have used both but I usually don't put any water in the hole and ram the mix around the post, then when I am done I pour some water on top, however I say that knowing the ground here a foot down is invariably wet a foot down even in summer. Putting the postcrete in without water guarantees it gets to the bottom of the hole ang gives you more time. I agree ordinary concrete is cheaper by a long way,.
Absolutely brilliant review - you covered everything and I particularly liked the cost breakdown at the end which is so important. I've always used concrete for wooden fence post which are usually easier to support whilst it's curing. I also fill to the top and slope the finished concrete surface for the water to fall away from the post - this is "good practice". However I recently did a concrete post fence and was unable to support the posts due to space and having to leave access. So I put in 2 bags of postcrete per hole, made sure the posts were plumb, the postcrete kept them plumb and then continued with the fence: posts, gravel boards, panels and then went back to the first post and filled up the hole with concrete and then the other holes. This method worked really well and I would definitely do it again and it kept the cost down by not have to use too many bags of postcrete. Thanks again for the great video 👍👏
Really enjoyed your video having used both in the past i often wondered what was happening below ground but never enough to dig them back out again and the amount of times I've got halfway through a job and said to myself hmm i never thought of that.
What would really be a winner, is if Blue Circle sold bags of ready dug post holes.
Brilliant
Superb 😂
Why don’t they sell you the fence post right in the hole with the concrete?
@@twiho You're just talking wizardry now 🤣
🤔 l ordered a wall and I got a pallet of bricks and some bags of mortar with a note “may need some assembly”😂
Regardless of the outcome of PostCrete V Concrete can we all just appreciate how much physical effort Stuart put in to do this video 👏🏻
He really puts in the work to do the science justice.
While the neighbors are thinking the guys gone crazy! Put up fence posts and ripping them out 3 days later!LOL
Physical effort, What physical effort, all that puffing and panting means he is not fit. Must be a 20 -40 year old who wrote that as they don't like a bit of graft. I use Concrete everytime and make my own spurs better than bought ones.
@@hastuart9639 I’m 58
If that's what u call effort/hard work I wouldn't like to see u working with me 😂
as someone who is not bad at diy ,this guy is so helpful he deserves a medal ,cheers stu
I've used both over the years. Postcrete is a lot faster, and no cleanup to barrow, spades, etc. It also hardens off from moisture in the soil over an extended period, gradually solidifying more & more over weeks, if the ground is generally wet, so doesn't need as much water as shown. Keep adding water to the area, if needed in dry conditions, and it'll be fine. Exposed wood at the base doesn't really matter, as oxygen is very low there, and the rot is usually more of a problem at the top of the concrete, where surface soil is in contact with the post, so building up the concrete above soil-level is a good idea. Also consider what happens in 10-20 yrs, when you need to replace the post - trying to break out full-fat concrete is a real pain once the post has broken off at the base, but post-mixes usually break up easier. Concrete for concrete posts, postcrete for timber posts. Or combination of postmix first to quickly hold position, & concrete at the top? Wear a decent mask.
Perhaps ad a rapid set admixture generally used for brick mortar in cold conditions
@@eowenspa2 There comes a point when it's all more effort than it's worth to set a post. Quick & easy is my preference, and what I Post-creted 25 yrs ago, it's the timber that's failed, not the Post-crete. And the Post-crete is a damn-sight easier to knock out & replace than hardened concrete.
I agree I would sooner remove a post installed with postcrete rather than premixed. It still holds the post but will break up so much easier when needs to be removed. I don’t know anyone would do this without ever having done it before. Waste of time using premixed concrete, ITS A FENCE POST NOT A SUSPENSION BRIDGE FOR GODS SAKE
Life is too short to worry about this level detail....its a fecking fence post ffs......
I'm putting in a 6ft x 5ft garden gate wich will have 60 to 70+ mile an hour wind thrown at it through the winter what would you suggest I use, post crete or proper concrete 🤔, I'm in Scotland so we do get very high winds. Ty
Used postcrete loads. Work’s absolutely perfectly. You do not need such a big hole and one bag per post pretty much does it. It’s for fence posts not foundations for a skyscraper!
Exactly and we don't all have the luxury of time you want that post set asap
Exactly, overthinking the job & deviating from instructions - though backfill with soil is a step too far for me as well.
Exactly what I was going to say. I have used postcrete for both concrete and wooden posts. For a 4 inch post I usually dig a 8 to9 inch diameter hole 18 to 20 inches deep, put the post in, fill to about 3/4 with the dry postcrete, water in, then add some more postcrete, a bit more water on the top, smooth off. All done. You cant directly compare hand mixed concrete and postcrete. The whole point of postcrete is to consolidate the ground around the post, it doesn't need the strength of hand mixed concrete. Just consider this, A typical telephone pole is 8 metres in length, a powered auger is used to drill a hole between 1.2 and 1.5 metres in depth. The pole is then planted in this hole, and then a couple of bags of gravel is used to fill the gap between pole and the sides of the hole. That's it ! no concrete , just dry gravel.
I always wonder why people who already know all the answers,bother watching videos like this.
@@garybarnes6575 Perhaps they come to watch the videos to see if there is a better way of doing things to the way they do it.
Something that comes across strongly watching this, you are very experienced at using concrete but a beginner at using postcrete. I ran a fencing business in the 1970's and we mixed large amounts of concrete when putting in posts but these days when i help friends with their garden fences I always use postcrete for ease. And I do it carefully making sure the mixing is effective. Using a metal bar rather than a piece of wood to thoroughly mix all the way to the base of the post.
Both ways you tried are something that personally, I would NEVER DO. When I moved into my house, over 20 years ago, the fence at the side of the drive was rotten. I decided that if I was to replace the fence myself, I better make sure that it not only lasted but was easy to repair if it ever needed doing again.
This is what I did:
1) I dug the old posts out (12).
2) I then mixed concrete and instead of putting the posts in, I concreted 3 feet of fall pipe into the ground, making sure that the bottom of the pipe was still on soil.
3) A 4x4 fence post is a nice snug fit in a fall pipe but before pushing the posts in, I filled the pipes with about 5 inches of pea gravel and I soaked the bottom 3 foot of the fence posts in creosote for a few days.
4) I then pushed in the fence posts and filled round the edges with pea gravel.
Why did I do this?
When it rains, the water goes down the fence post and through the gravel into the ground like a mini soakaway at the bottom of each post. So far the posts are still solid after 20 years, but even if one did rot at the bottom, I merely remove some gravel and replace the post with no more digging of concrete bases EVER. I could literally replace a post in about 20 minutes and have the panels re attached.
Hope this is helpful to anyone who is about to put up a fence, certainly something to think about if you are planning on staying in the house for a long time.
What is fall pipe please? I like your solution, always build in redundancy!
@@jordancox8280 The large pipe on the outside of a house that connects to the toilet. Sell them in diy shops and builders merchants. Basically any pipe that is a tight fit when a fence post is inserted.
@@jordancox8280 When I did my fence, I quickly realised that the reason the original fence posts had rotted was because rain water had soaked down the fence post and was trapped by the concrete. The standing water then rots the post over time. One thing I forgot to mention on my original post was the end caps on the top of the posts. I didn't use any but instead melted candle wax on to the top of them.
@@userone7487you are an absolute legend thanks for this!
@@jordancox8280soil pipe (for toilets)
Speed's usually of the essence, so I tend to use postcrete. However, after a bit of trial and error many years ago, I tend to fill the hole in stages, i.e. bit of water, bit of postcrete, give it a good stir/tamp and then repeat until I'm at the top. Beats getting out the mixer or barrow and the speed of the accelerant really makes it a one-man job. Great comparison, though - another really helpful and informative video. Many thanks.
The blane size of ordinary Portland is milled for slow setting high long term strength, the quick setting postcrete is the type supplied to batching plants for quick setting early strength, ie roof tile molds. Ordinary Portland every time. It doesn't take much imagination to realise which would have the best frost resistance.
Exactly the way I do it. In any event, all the failures I get are from the post rotting out, not from the footing giving way.
@@nigelmitchell351 When it boils down to it, I'm putting in a post, not building house foundations, so I'll take speed over long term strength, especially when working on my own.
@@neilmckie2768 Yeah but your customer will care when the shite breaks up in the frost and his fence falls over in the wind.......
Do it right, do it once. Just like you'd want someone to do something for you .....
Can’t you buy faster curing cement if speed is important?
I applaud you for the amount of hard work you put in to make this video for us DIYers.
Agreed. Thank you for your well presented video and clear conclusions.
Regardless of whether you use Postcrete or (as I prefer) a concrete mix, a wooden post will rot within its 'socket'. I paint the post sides (to just above ground level) and post end with bitumen paint and allow it to dry for a few hours before setting into the hole, to sit on 2-3" of tamped gravel or stone to promote drainage. Add one or two struts to keep the post upright and in the correct alignment and pour in and tamp concrete mix in stages, adding some broken brick or stone lumps around the post after each pouring to both bulk out the filling and help to wedge the post. Make sure the concrete sits a little above the ground and slope it to allow surface water to drain away. If rain is likely, protect the concrete with pieces of brick or wood and leave until the next day before removing struts and fixing fence panels.
I prefer to spend a little more on the posts by buyjng postsaver posts, they have the shrink tube in place and prevent rot at the soil line which is always where 99% go rotten, got 3 to do soon, all 3 rotten at the soil line.
Three postsaver posts ready to go in
I do the same, a neighbour's fence blew over last week 6 wooden posts rotted through just below the surface. I'm told, by wooden boat builders, completely saturated wood resists rot better than damp wood
In Austria, every house has a car cover structure with wooden posts on metal cups drilled into concrete blocks. Wood never rots.
I’ve used post mix a lot and found that putting the mix in the hole first then adding enough water so the initial mix is very loose then adding the mix till it thickens up.
Also using a think piece of metal to mix so you can get right down into the mix
Yeah that or mixing in a tub and just pouring in
Many years ago I worked for RMC (Rugby Cement, now Cemex) and our postcrete instructions recommended adding the mix to the hole then the water after. One thing that many people don't realise is that cement hardens in a chemical reaction. It is also exothermic (it gives off heat) and the speed of setting is sensitive to ambient temperature. So in cold weather it sets slower and in hot weather it sets faster. We used to recommend a kettleful of hot water in cold conditions to help with setting time.
Also, I think the RMC mix had more aggregate in it.
Interesting comparison. Been using postcrete successfully for many years now, mostly because of the speed of set. However you're absolutely right about the product instructions. You definitely need two bags or more per hole and I quickly realised its better to add product and water together as you fill the hole, ensuring it is mixed as you go. As an alternative i have also mixed the postcrete with water in a barrow and shovelled it into the hole.I also fill with product to the top of the hole! Theres also no reason why you can't put gravel in the bottom first (I do). I have also found the relative softness of the cured product a boon on a couple of occasions where i have had to move a fence, because its much easier to break up than concrete, but ive never had any issues with it's strength. One thing I definitely agree with though is the higher cost, and its cost has increased significantly over the years i have used it, especially in comparison to ballast etc.
Quikcrete over in the US actually instructs users to add the post mix first, then inundate with water. Seems strange to me that Blue Circle suggests adding water first - exactly what I would expect to happen, happened!
The results will also depend on the permeability of the soil, so it is definitely safer to add water after the product.
Never used Postcrete but I'd agree with you about the softness and ease of removal when required. Whenever I've pulled timber posts set by the housebuilder it's been a lean mix that did the job but broke up fairly easily - important as timber posts have a limited life until a spur is needed..
I did this job for the first time recently. Not knowing any better I used Postcrete. Took forever to get the hole a third full of water but once I did I dumped in a bag and stirred it around. Like you it wasn't enough so I threw a bag of gravel in there too. The hole was tapered-out as it descended in the hope that that was a good idea... And before lowering in the post I hammered in some metal pegs I found in the shed so they were splayed out into the ground with a few inches in the hole itself (at this point I was getting impressed with myself for my over-engineering skills). Once dry I covered the last few inches with soil precisely as you showed I shouldn't. We'll see how it goes. I'm near the coast with some serious winds blowing through. Next time I'll follow your instructions and use concrete. That was the longest story about digging a post hole ever. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I enjoyed the digging. :-) Thank you for your advice.
You made very hard work of a very easy process regarding postcrete😂😂😂😂😂
Can you elaborate?
I’ve used postcrete and have done by just pouring it into the hole and just leaving it to go off as trying to add water during the process doesn’t work as it goes off too quickly.
I tend to fill the holes with dry postcrete and add water in the hole although this goes against the instructions it's always done me well
Yep, my method also.
I've always thought that makes more sense since you guarantee the mix reaches the bottom.
May I ask: do you (a) fill the hole with dry postcrete by, say, 1/4, then add water, and repeat the steps until the hole is filled up; or (b) pour postcrete all the way to the top then finally add water?
@@gazingstone4577 I probably fill it about 80% dry and then top it off with water and use something that can get down deep to mix it but you have to be quick.
My theory is, even if you don't get enough water to the bottom, it should absorb it from the ground
@@gardenogauge Thanks, mate.
I've never had issues with postcrete. In my experience it goes off quickly to a level sufficient to support a post but then gets stronger over time as it absorbs water from the surrounding soil. It looks to me like you added far too much water. Rather than a 3-day test you need a 3-month test.
He thought he knew better than the instructions.
Also, I also only need the postcrete to last as long as the timber!
@@gregwade7974 Exactly. What would you rather dig out of a hole in a tight space. A hole with postcrete or concrete. I don't need to be killing myself trying to break up the Hoover Dam!
Follow the instructions exactly , then if it does not work , then you can criticise it .
@@gregwade7974 - - ha ha, in my country there are 40+ year old timber posts - mostly simply fixed in rammed clay, the secret is, not being forced to use rubbish timbers for construction (Not sure if quality timber is available here any more, but many old post and rail fences will probably outlast the light duty steel types (heavy gauge galvanised steel SHS will last longer)..
I love your passion, thanks for all that hard work, showing the differences across both.
For those reading these comments and wanting to know which option is best, remember wooden fence posts do not last forever and will need to be replaced at some point in the future. Therefore, the fixing material needs only to be strong enough to support the wooden post over its natural lifetime, which may only be a few years depending on the quality of the timber, the prevailing conditions and the quality of the installation.
As the professionals have already said, postcrete will work perfectly at supporting a wooden post for the duration of its lifetime. And perhaps more importantly, is easier to remove and replace than concrete when you inevitably have to replace the post in the future. If you want to never have to do the job again then fit a concrete post that can't rot, otherwise accept that wooden posts don't last forever and use whichever method you want.
I have used Postcrete on hundreds of fencing jobs and have never had any problems. Your cost comparison appears to be based on DIY projects and not commercial projects. Using Postcrete alleviates the requirement of a concrete mixer, the space needed to mix the concrete and clearing the mess after. Also handling Jumbo bags of ballast weighing 800kg in a back garden is difficult. The next problem is that using ordinary concrete, the posts have to be propped overnight which then means a second day’s visit to install the panels. Using Postcrete means that panels can be fitted the same day and smaller jobs are completed in one day which is cheaper and more efficient than having to return a second time. In firm/hard ground, it is possible to only use 1 bag per hole.
Fully agree. I've just done a 15 metre stretch using 12 stobs down to 600mm and 2 bags postcrete per 2.4m x 100x100 stob. Did that early doors in the morning and by the end of the day, the whole job was finished. Left it all for a week then went back to trim the stobs and everything was bar tight, zero movement on the stobs.
I totally agree I think the point of postcrete had been missed. As a professional in the industry you would never use concrete.
@@outdoor585 At last, someone who knows what they’re talking about! Thank you Alan! 👍
Channel called "DIY" focuses on the DIYer shock...
@@hermand diy or professional doesn't matter, there's an easy way and a hard way.
Thanks for this Stuart. Really appreciate the effort for this sort of scientific study. I did know the difference but I still found this helpful.
Fascinating as always. I thought similar to what you thought when we did our posts for the fence so thank you for clarifying!
What a great video and explanation. I used Postmix for the first time a few months ago and am so relieved that you came across the same experience and questions. I got to the point that I thought I had just not read the instructions correctly. Plus yes, I had to run off to the suppliers to get another two bags.
Once finished, as I turned to clean and put away the tools, I muttered to myself that at least it will be easier to get the stuff out when I need to replace the post.
I have set many many street lamp columns over the years and have always used a dry mix. Never added any water at all, just allowed capillary action to draw the moisture from the soil. The longer it's left, the harder it gets.
I looked at postcrete recently when setting heel drain in the garden, and the contents showed "blue portland clinker" which is possibly why they recommend filling the pot with water.
Same here always used dry mix for fencing no need for support beems then
Same here too, always use dry mix. No bracing needed and held firm from the start.
I always use post create and tip water straight into hole and immediately pour in the create. None of my fences have blown down. And some are standing after 15 or more years, I admit that concrete is stronger. But post create certainly does the job 2feet down a foot across 2/3bags per post. Then leave overnight. Fix fence move on. But thanks for taking the time to show us your thoughts experiences
My great uncle was a fencer, as am I. He never set timber posts in concrete as he reckoned concrete shrinks and timber shrinks, allowing water ingress and accelerating rot. For a 6’ fence, he’d be using a minimum of 9’ posts, usually pressure creosoted, backfilled and rammed.
Agree, I'd be using steel post sockets.
Agree. Backfill and ram. No need for concrete.
@Daisyworld743 the water in the concrete rots the post, not matter if or how its treated the post is physically sitting in water.
My preference is a concrete stub post set in with concrete and bolt the wooden posts to the stub. It is a lot more expensive but more durable. If the wooden posts rot or split over the years you swap out the wooden posts without all the digging. You may need new bolts. Likewise I prefer arris rails and boards to panel fencing. More forgiving in high winds and damaged parts can be replaced. Pays yer money and make yer choice. In the long run it is cheaper. Fence between neighbour and me is over 25 years old and only had a few boards replaced.
Depends on the ground. How wet it gets, or how water logged it is when the job needs done! Sandy machair land doesn't tamp in the slightest for any length of time. Then, running through a peat bog has issues when tamping, as you loosen the ground around where you've tamped. Get in amongst large rocks and have issues where posts are being cut to make do, and you need the solid anchorage.
Watched a couple of your videos and really enjoyed the candour and craftsmanship. I especially appreciated the problem solving bit in the middle of this one where you lever the posts out after realising they'll effin heavy! Thanks also for the wee bit of advice around the hole diameter. Not seen this mentioned and only seen depth being important.
I worked in landscaping and to put posts in i would mix a bag of postcrete in a barrow and tip it in dry. Level the posts then come back and top up with ballast and cement. Meant you could plumb the posts with a level and not have to brace the posts but not waste 2/3 bags per post. Works out strongest and cheapest.
I was wondering about that myself. What about accelarants in ordinary concrete?
Hi Stuart . Thanks for this video , having used the postcrete product it did seem to work for me . But having said that I did wonder what was going on underground , which you’re demo has explained . With my little project I was able to use the first post to support the fence panel so working out the position of the next , and so to continue the project on the same day . Obviously your preferred method is the best , but to accurately set the spacing of the posts for preformed fence panels is no easy task . I personally would find it quite difficult , but with your skill set you would have no problem . Best wishes and kind regards. 😀👍👍👍
Very enjoyable and informative. I've used postmix many times but concluded that in general a concrete mix is superior on results and cost. Really made me laugh when you dug out the post!
Costs? The customer pays
Great video I’ve used both methods and often wondered what it looked like when dug up, thanks for spending time and effort to do this test
as others have said, Postcrete carries on pulling water out of the soil for maybe months so a 3-day test isn't representative.
Great to see the comparison, but after only 3 days? I would expect postcrete to take at least a week to solidify. We have hung 13ft farm gates on 8in posts, and still good, about 2 1/2 bags from memory. We always put aggregate in the bottom first. This allows you to get the post at exactly the right level, so no cutting after, and allows water to drain away from the bottom of the post. It will fill up in wet weather, even after curing. Great vid though, thanks.
I have successfully set many posts over the years using both postcrete and concrete, never used no where near the amount of water you have, concrete semidry mix, postcrete good wet hole no standing water in the bottom, damping the top is so you can shape it.
Good video, interesting to see the finished results when you pulled them out, although I think the postcrete issue was because you used too much water.
Good video. Ive lost count of the amount of posts etc ive set using both, and your findings pretty much echoed what I initially found with postcrete bith when using and removing posts. I think once you understand postcrete and find the best way to use it (ie dont follow the instructions) it has its place, but I still think the 'traditional' method is better, especially for those diyers who lack experience of postcrete.
Indeed for any job experience is the only way for it to be done well!
Great video, I've never used Postcrete & after watching your video never will. I thought you went above and beyond taking those posts out after all the hard work installing them...🙂🙂🙂
Thank you for a detailed and fair comparison. I've never resorted to Postcrete (and I've done a fair few posts) but faithfully mixed my concrete of ballast and cement - at least I now feel 'vindicated' for the hard work! Looking forward to your next project.
This is what we call a pyrrhic victory.
Understood!@@noyzmunky
Fantastic experiment! I've always wondered how the 2 would compare. Thanks for doing this
Really valuable vid. My dad has ALWAYS mixed proper concrete. I've used post crete. I've often wondered how crap post crete is! I've always assumed that there would be loads of holes down it.
You mentioned a gravel bed to the hole, what about a dry mix of concrete, then post, then wet mix around it. That's what my dad does.
The purpose of the gravel is to allow water to drain away effectively. Dry mix wouldn't give the same drainage IMO.
I'm a former fencing contractor in Melbourne Aust. Re 6' Paling fences between neighbours, I've used postcrete or what we call rapid set concrete. My method was to first fill the hole with 30mm of dry, then the post about 3 litres of water, then more concrete in about 3 stages, whilst continually mixing it in the hole with a small crow bar. I've never removed a new post to see the results.
Very informative video. Thank you. I helped my son in law build a garden fence couple year ago. We set the posts in Post crete. Great stuf. Posts were treated, then i painted them with fence on paint before we erected them.
I can't get enough of this channel! These are the things you would want to try yourself but you never get around to. The results were pretty much as I expected although I didn't expect the postcrete to be that soft. A couple of weeks ago I picked up some heavy posts from a fencing store and the gentleman there told me to do exactly what you always do: use regular concrete. He did advise to use a post safer or tar as well. I doubt it is needed when you fill up the hole with concrete all the way to the top though. Far less bacteria will be interested in concrete.
This guy is as in his title........DIY.....Not a professional at anything !
@@fencer39 If I remember correctly Stuart is a structural engineer. So sure that may mean he is not a professional brick layer, carpenter or electrician but he does understand how things work and how they should or could be done.
Knows far more than you
That lever method was what I used here to remove a line of posts with repair spurs attached. Used a bag of ballast on the end of the lever to hold it down while I wedged the mushroom of concrete to stop it falling back when I reset things.
What a great impartial video, the effort you went was fabulous. It’s now 3am in the morning, the things you watch when you can’t sleep 😂
Great video , i have been fencing for years i always use post Crete and 10mm gravel with no issues , its cheaper , it sets rapidly and has added strength with the gravel .
This has convinced me to use postcrete. Perfect for the job if you just want some fence posts to be held upright for about 20 years, and then relatively easy for the next person to break up the base. If you want to make it impossible for the next person to put in a new fence, or you are building something more permanent/more massive, then use proper concrete!
Let me tell you something! I’m a fencing contractor and postmix after at least 3 weeks in ground it will become as solid as marble! It is by no means at all weaker than concrete!
Just about to put some posts in. This'll help decided which way i go. 👍
I remember seeing the thumbnail for this video when it came out and that is ultimately what got me back here, but I am sorely regretting not watching this before setting four posts at the weekend (with postmix) for a climbing frame. I was really not impressed with the postmix, and seeing the comparison here if I was doing it again I would most definitely use concrete, the question I now have to face is what I do with the post that I have already done... Thanks for the video.
Very interesting comparison, great methodology. I have always felt this about postcrete, because you just can not mix it properly. Great work!
I've done quite a bit of field (stob and wire) fencing and I fix my strainer posts in a completely different way. Wooden posts rot at ground level, when I replace a post the bottom of the old post is as fresh as the day it was put in because there is insufficient oxygen down there for insects and rot to exist. To stop the post rotting at ground level I use bitumen paint from 50mm above ground line to about 300mm below ground line. I use a heat gun to heat the bitumen so it really grips into the timber. After a few minutes cool time I give it another thick coat of bitumen. Then I wrap and staple heat shrink polythene over the bitumen and use the heat gun to carefully heat the polythene so it shrinks and melts the bitumen till it is squeezed out the top and bottom. The rule for this stage is keep the heat gun moving otherwise the polythene will melt and you'll get a hole. I run a wet sponge lightly from the middle up then down to squeeze out any air bubbles, but be very careful, get hot bitumen on your skin then it's skin graft time.
I put the post in the hole making sure there is 50mm of the now bitumen sealed polythene above ground level. I back fill with soil compacting with a home made tool made out of steel section, basically 5ft (1500mm) length with a 6" (150mm) welded at right angle, so a 'T' shape. When I get about 100mm from ground level I stop backfilling with soil and use a spade to dig a square 2ft (600mm) by 2ft around the post. I find some half bricks or big stones and use a sledge hammer to smash them into the soil around the perimeter, leaving them sticking up out the soil to act as an anchor. I then mix 1-2-4 concrete using 10mm gravel and fill around the stones and pole to ground level sloping slightly so water flows away from the pole. If you're really keen you could silicone the junction between the concrete and polythene but I just paint it with more bitumen.
Wow, that's a lot of effort! And you still end up having to replace posts for other reasons anyway??!
@@gwynsea8162 It is extra work but strainers are over £30 each now and digging the hole is way more work than painting and wrapping and I find the whole shrinking bit really satisfying. Removing a strainer that's rotted through and snapped at ground level is no fun at all, they can be buried 1.2 metres deep so anything that postpones that job is worth a little extra work. I'm experimenting now with 3" square posts and empty 2 litre plastic bottles. with the top and bottom of the bottle cut off it just slips over the post (or stob as we call them). Same procedure, bitumen paint, slip bottle over post, staple and use heat gun. The bottle shrinks down really well.
On your second point about replacing posts for other reasons - I use the waste oil out the tractor thinned down with diesel and a ronseal sprayer to paint the posts once every couple of years. I also paint bitumen on the top of the posts to stop water getting in. Without doing all this then I've seen a post break after 10 years. Not rotten all the way through but weakened enough that a swinging gate or just re-tensioning the wires will snap it. Now, having said all this it'll be another 5 to 15 years before i know for sure that this works but so far it seems to be doing the trick.
@@ianjohnston9325 I admire your diligence! Much respect and thanks for sharing 😀
Great video, thanks for sharing. I see another benefit of the Postcrete - you can re-use the posts in the future by just tapping the postcrete off after you dig it up!
Always assuming they haven't already rotted away.
Amazing video - I'm so impressed with the effort you put into making it - thank you !
Thank you first off for the effort you put in on this up , to go back and dig it up is something else 👍, I have never enjoyed using post mix and will be stopping that from now on 👍
Would be interesting to see what the postcrete one looks like in a few months.
Don't know why everyone isn't pre-mixing postcrete to avoid the issue identified here at the bottom around 16 mins. Yes you have to be a bit quicker, but much easier than using a stick in the hole.
Spot on. 3 days is not long enough for the post mix to harden although concrete, well mixed, will obviously cure a lot faster.
@@pdubya4690 Not really. Concrete takes weeks to fully cure. Ask a civil engineer.
I recently (couple years ago ) had to rip down a fence and rebuild it , all the posts that were done with postcrete had protruding post ends
The only occasional ones that didn’t protrude ! We’re sitting on in deeper holes and had consumed two bags.
The replacement posts were pug in with concrete
So glad someone did this. Had to put some posts into ground with a high water table recently and was deeply sceptical that postcrete would work well when poured into a hole half filled with water already, but had no other choice. Fortunately I wasn't building a big structure.
If your doing multiple posts, a cement mixer and making the concrete up and using a wheel barrow to take it to each post. The post mix really looks like a quick/emergency solution.
Another consideration is the following generation of DIYer who will need to dig out your fence posts when it's time to replace the fence and the posts have rotted. Postcrete is easier to break up while in the hole whereas concrete is a nightmare to try to remove. And since the stuff isn't structural it doesn't need to be as hard a normal concrete.
Agreed. I have turned down fence jobs before just because they'd used concrete. I can break out postcrete in 20 mins, concrete is almost impossible to remove with hand tools
Stuart, it would have been interesting to see the results after 3-4 weeks on the postcrete as some have said on here. Given its a new post a block on the side and a tractor jack would have been enough to lift the post. As always an interesting video but perhaps a revision video after 3-4 weeks on the postcrete is required?
After just finishing my back garden fence with over 20 posts using postcrete on my own I found it superb. Sets quickly so you can keep building. Saved time and effort
Hats off to you for doing all of this. I'm impressed. Gratefull and now know my concerns are justified. Real concrete is the winner on quality and cost.
Hi Stuart, Could you have used buckets as molds and then taken the molds off for the testing?
Best to see the job as it really is in a project!!ie in the earth
Stop it Mandy,you wicked girl.
That’s an interesting comparison. I think you’re missing an important criteria for an engineer though - even if it’s weaker, is the postcrete strong enough for the job it has to do?
Fair point, although that unsupported gap at the base could certainly allow more lateral movement in windy situations.
Im not sure if anyone has already said this .
- Postmix goes of quickly to allow you to continue the fencing job
- It is more porous to allow water to escape if you put postmix under the post, the reverse is also applicable to allow water to get to dry powder
- post mix is softer/brittle to allow you to break it out to replace the post.
That being said I use both depending on the post, wood v concrete
thanks for the demonstration! classic concrete is the obvious winner.
I have worked as a merchant advising fencers, builders and retail and working with various big name suppliers for over 20 years now. This video is very well put together and informative. I especially agree with the opinion of NOT backfilling. A lot of customers these days don't want to see the concrete as they think its unsightly, however, this I believe is the main contributing factor to posts rotting caused by a soggy collar at ground level. You need to create a fall. I'm surprised that the postmix manufacturers recommend this.
Really interesting comparison. I've used both options before and found if the hole and post are not too big, postcrete usually works OK and goes off quickly. I did however sink new 175x175 gate posts last summer and tried to use postcrete again but the ground was too dry; I couldn't fill the hole with enough water to use postcrete. 1hr of running the hose simply wet the sides! Mixing a wheelbarrow of traditional concrete, as you did, solved the issue. Leaving them a couple of days before hanging the five bar gate seemed sensible, but I appreciate that may not be practical if you're a pro fencing/gate installer.
Awesome video.
I have to admit, I’ve used postcrete a lot in the past despite having reservations about how strong it was compared to actual concrete. Now I have no excuses I’ll have to mix my own concrete 😢
Stuart that was interesting. Last time I put some posts in, they didn't have postcrete so I had to use concrete. I do feel though that you missed a step. After digging two holes, setting two posts and mixing two lots of concrete - that's got to have earned a beer.
I have recently done quite a large decking area that required 50 post hole and 50 bags of postcrete 😮 l found the best method was to fill the hole with water, then the postcrete then pierce several holes in the postcrete with a metal spike,then tamper round the post until the pierced holes fill up with the mixture. Seems to have worked a treat as the whole area is solid. Not cheap but saves a lot of work if you don't own a mixer.
Great Video. thanks for sharing this info.
My dad showed me to place a rock, large pebble or ½ of an old brick under the post to shed off any water away from the base of the post, and also tapering the surface concrete away from the post ( rather than being flat at the top) so that no water stands there.
When I bought a new build house years ago the builder had put a fence in and I extended it with a handful of panels using the method above. The builders posts are all long gone having rotted at ground level, and my posts are still there. Thanks Dad!
I worked on a job with a guy and he said “full the hole up and make soup”, now I’ve never read the post mix bag but I never full the hole up, I prefer to sprinkle the bottom of hole then fill up dry and mix up in the hole. I agree the gravel in the hole first is perfect for slight drainage against rotting. Great video this, nice one.
For what it’s worth, my experience with postcrete is as follows. Over the last 10-14 yrs I have fixed around 30 fence posts on my property. I always use 4”x4” wooden posts. I dig the holes 2 ft deep with a post hole digger, but dig it at the minimum size I can (around 8” across I would estimate). I only ever use 1 bag of postcrete per hole, and this usually fills it up to ground level (sometimes with a bit left over). None of the posts have even come loose, although a couple in the wetter areas of the garden have rotted over this last winter at ground level, and I have had to replace those 2 this year. For me postcrete is a no-brainer, and the slight increase in cost (at 1 bag per hole) is more than offset by the time saved in mixing and the fact that within 10-15 mins the post is solid enough that you can start fixing the fence to it.
Same for me. Hand Auger to bore the hole, or a hole digger, 4x4 post 2 feet deep and 'tamp mix' the Postcrete in the hole. I only use normal quick set concrete if replacement leaves a very big hole.
I worked 5 years putting in wooden posts for post and rail fencing with Postcrete and never had an issue, the more you disturb the ground the more Postcrete you need. I also dug 8 inch hole and one bag per hole and got my Postcrete at Wickes with trade discount. I always crown the bottom of the post to shed water.
Shout out to us 1 bag 8" monsters.
Time is money and so is dem bags of mix 😅
Long arm post spade post diggers a breaker and one bag of postcrete per hole been doing for years not had any callbacks on posts prematurely rotting or coming loose. The fences have survived very strong wind and still not come loose
Totally agree, 3 bags per post is excessive and expensive in my opinion, I always only use 1. Still very good video though.
Very interesting video, thank you for sharing.
I can't read all the comments, but postcrete does set harder as it gets older. It's easier to drill out though, that MAY be a benefit, after all, it's holding up a post, not a bridge. That said, I had one that cracked and the post wobbled. I think my neighbour may have crashed a wheelbarrow into the post, but even so, that was a surprise. I don't always use the water in the hole technique though, I have added it later at that's worked fine. Eventually it all hardens no matter what. Really think I may use concrete in the future though. That dust is deadly af, and I tend to set concrete spurs these days, they would benefit from the extra strength. Great video.
A fascinating video Stuart.
I would never have thought the PostCrete would have performed so poorly
I’m guessing that the PostCrete would continue to cure and harden but the issue with the end of the post protruding is a big one.
Keep up the fantastic input Stuart.
I am a fencing contractor for over 15 years and postmix will take at least 2-3 weeks to cure and let me tell you when it does it goes as hard as marble! Unfortunately this video isn’t as accurate as it could have been! We do however use a different brand of mix alongside this brand. We use a brand called remix has more aggregate in it too. Still a good demonstration nevertheless!
I've got to reset a couple of posts and holes would be similar size to this vid. Do you use multi bags? What process do you follow? Cheers
@@tonyjoe5707 if you have or can borrow a breaker it’ll make your life a lot easier! It’s best to dig down one side of the post then break down each side of the post to ‘pop’ of the side of the concrete, then remove post and then the remaining lump should fall into the hole and remove that too. In regards to setting new post just make sure you don’t over water the mix about a third of the depth is plenty! Post mix is designed to ‘pull moisture’ from surrounding soil/substrate. Don’t be shy to add a few Little Rock’s in the mix half way or so just make sure they have enough post mix around them too! We use at least two bags per 4x4 post and at lease three on a concrete post. Hope this helps regards
@@adamstone4905 that's great info, especially about the breaker as I hadn't thought about that. Thanks for the really quick response. Cheers👍
@@adamstone4905sorry what exactly is a breaker? Would you use postcrete over cement then overall?
Stuart, never in 45 years in building trades have I lower myself to use postcrete, it's proper concrete everytime for fence & gate posts.
And I sit my posts on half of a perforated engineering brick to allow water to drain, plus post in ground are painted with bitumen to ground level,got got posts I did 20 years ago, rot free & still in use.
How does the water drain if post is underground, under soil and presumably concrete if a perforated engineering brick is used? Is a french drain involved?
Really useful tip thank you for sharing your experience. Much appreciated.
@stuartandrews4344 I've had post and rail around my property, which I constructed 40 years ago, I must admit they were pressure treated posts, but I only back filled with compacted earth, I've only had to renew three post's in all of that time from a total of 40+, when I renewed the post's I char burnt the portion of the post in the ground and slightly higher, this is what the Canadians do and they have been at it a long time, had I put them in concrete I think my work would have collapsed years ago, your idea of a brick at the bottom is good.
Proper job.
Perfect Peter strikes again
Great video Stuart, I have used postmix it's ok to replace a post , but you can't beat concrete mix , sand gavel cement Very useful video Thanks , take care and see you on the next one👍👍
Many thanks for going to all that trouble. Your test results were very interesting and enough to persuade me to hand mix concrete next time.
That is a very interesting test for the DIY person. Try mixing the postcrete in a large bucket using a drill, then pour into the hole.
postcrete sets very quick, I probably wouldn't recommend mixing it outside of the hole
Used both, never had an issue with either. The real world forces applied to the post doesn’t require really strong concrete. If ease of use and speed is your priority use postmix. If you have the time and want to save money then mix up your own concrete.
My experience was exactly the same as yours. Love the channel!
Great video, informative and well thought out. Spent a frantic 5 minutes setting a gate post yesterday with postcrete made all the harder when it started bouncing down with rain. Hindsight - standard cement ballast mix and a tarp would have been the easier and less stressful option however real life and it's time pressures got in the way.
The rain definitely made the postcrete process more complicated!
If you have rubble , big broken bricks etc add these as you pour the postcrete in and use a stick to consolidate. You will use less postcrete and the stones add strength and help wedge in the post.
Perhaps, given that putting timber into the ground anyhow will not last too long, the softer Postcrete is better for removal too ? I have broken up a few concrete post bases; maybe Postcrete is easier. 😉
Great Video. I always use concrete, much more under your own control. Really interesting to see the results. Your efforts at getting the posts out was worth it :-)
Excellent comparison and very interesting too. Thanks for this.
@@ProperDlY. I'm not falling for that one thanks.🤣
I always use postcrete but i poor it into hole dry then add water
Experience and exasperation led me to the same conclusions years ago.
Postcrete (Postmix), seems to vary in quality from bag to bag - I've opened bags that seemed to have little, if any, Aggregate and others where its the main constituent... all purchased from the same supplier. Additionally, the Aggregate seems to be composed mainly of Crushed Stone rather than the mix of Crushed Stone & Gravel you'd use in a hand mix - which has a major impact on the strength of the mix.
As far as I'm concerned, it's an utterly worthless product alongside the quality of the timber used for making the Posts currently available.
Postcrete is fine, quick and easy did our whole fence lines in a matter of hours. Easy job
Could have been worse. Could have included expanding foam demo to hold the post.
You are completely missing the point of postcreat because it sets qulkley you can do a 15 panel fence in one day without all the wheel barow mixing and all your wobeley posts because it takes 24 h
Got all the answers I needed - great review of the two solutions. Thank you.
another one the neighbours will add to their "wtf is he doing list" putting in two fence posts right next to each other then ripping them out of the ground a few days later then jet washing them 😂
So, you're supposed to dig your hole slightly deeper than needed, and then lift the post after adding the first bag. This allows the postcrete underneath the posts to protect it. 👍
why did you start that sentence with "so"?
@@LiveFromLondon2 , to sound like a pretentious twat.
No one ever tries to start moving posts again in wet concrete, especially when they are set out in line and braced up.
@@LiveFromLondon2 Because I felt like it.
@@eyecatcher1509 You should have a string line set up and a spirit level to hand. Then it's not an issue.
It doesn't matter if the water doesn't mix completely when you pour the mix in, in time the moisture will permeate through and cure. The post mix is adequately mixed straight from the bag from the point of view of cement to ballast. I have used both but I usually don't put any water in the hole and ram the mix around the post, then when I am done I pour some water on top, however I say that knowing the ground here a foot down is invariably wet a foot down even in summer. Putting the postcrete in without water guarantees it gets to the bottom of the hole ang gives you more time. I agree ordinary concrete is cheaper by a long way,.
Great video, thanks.
Thanks for this video as a Builder myself i have often wondered about this well done good video mate. I have always used concrete as its cheaper
Absolutely brilliant review - you covered everything and I particularly liked the cost breakdown at the end which is so important. I've always used concrete for wooden fence post which are usually easier to support whilst it's curing. I also fill to the top and slope the finished concrete surface for the water to fall away from the post - this is "good practice". However I recently did a concrete post fence and was unable to support the posts due to space and having to leave access. So I put in 2 bags of postcrete per hole, made sure the posts were plumb, the postcrete kept them plumb and then continued with the fence: posts, gravel boards, panels and then went back to the first post and filled up the hole with concrete and then the other holes. This method worked really well and I would definitely do it again and it kept the cost down by not have to use too many bags of postcrete. Thanks again for the great video 👍👏
Really enjoyed your video having used both in the past i often wondered what was happening below ground but never enough to dig them back out again and the amount of times I've got halfway through a job and said to myself hmm i never thought of that.