worship as....? David and Saul were worshipped as earthly kings. Idols were worshipped as god. Jesus was worshipped by his disciples as...? [Simon Peter said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."]
the wise men worship Jesus as king of israel,thats they leave him immediately,if they think Jesus is a God they would ask that god-man protection,Jesus is worshipped as king@@superviola88
@@Jrce11 right if you read earlier in John it was the same Thomas who didn't see the father in Christ when Yeshua said if you have seen me you have seen the father. At that moment post resurrection Thomas saw His Lord Yeshua the son of God and his God Yahweh that Yeshua testified was with him, in him, who's word he was speaking, and who's works he was doing. God his father. Its coming full circle and reaching understanding and a place of believing because he is now sees the Lord resurrected
Did God the Father tell all his angels to worship them like he told them to worship his Son? God the Father says in Hebrews 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 1:6 And again, when when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. God the Father saith, "Let all the angels of God worship him."
@@basilhendricks788 that means Jesus is Devine by nature of being begotten. God is not begotten, begotten by definition means created, surley the apostles weren't saying God was created. Only a roman would think God becomes man or the other way around.
Intellectual honesty is important in debates if people desire to advance arguments. Sometimes is not clear if the speaker is even listening or understanding the opposite views to refute them.
Dr. Brown, thanks for making it clearer using Scripture verses like John 1:1,14 Col. 2:9 "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form", Jesus as God and not just a glorified person.
Why woud Jesus even desire to grasp equality with God, since according to you he is God? John 1: 1 is the MOST misunderstood verse in scriptures and so misleading. I doubt that without Jn 1 :1 there would even be such a doctrine of the Trinity.
I think the word “Trinity” is insufficient to describe the nature of God. Having said that, the Bible makes it clear that Jesus Christ IS God. The evidence is exhaustive. One cannot deny the deity of Jesus Christ without ignoring, denying, or twisting scripture
@@priscillajervey8345it would be convenient for you to not have John 1:1, wouldn't it? Fortunately for all of us, God said it so it's real. Just as Jesus saying "I Am" and calling Himself "THE ALPHA AND OMEGA" in Revelation. There's nothing else that can be said after that clear statement.
Philippians 2: 5-7 (NKJV), "...Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men."
@Paul Mata Jesus referred to himself as “God’s Son” or “the Son of God.” (John 10:36; 11:4) Jesus never identified himself as Almighty God. Moreover, Jesus prayed to God. (Matthew 26:39) And while teaching his followers how to pray, Jesus said: “Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.”-Matthew 6:9.
Here, you dropped this: Philippians 2:9 (NASB) For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, God, as in Yahweh, highly exalted Jesus. Trinitarians always skip this verse! This is why Dr Tuggy said context is king!
God is the God of all flesh Jeremiah 32. So yes the son will always call the father God from the moment he entered in the flesh. But the father also calls the son God. Hebrews 1. Easy peezy
@@arold4928 Yes! When he could have been King and taken power immediately, as per his temptation in the wilderness. Instead Jesus took the form of a servant.
I usually dont comment on stuff like this but I watch them all the time. No offense to Dr.Tuggy but to say that John 1:1-2 and then 14 is NOT talking about Jesus is a HUGE stretch! I was shocked by that one!
I think when we take into account Deut 18:18-19, God makes a clear distinction between His word and Jesus, them not being the same thing. The word is God. God puts His word into the prophet (Jesus) to speak on His behalf.
One that always baffles me is when Revelation 1:8 describes Jesus Christ as "Alpha and Omega" and "the Almighty". If one denies the deity of Christ, they MUST discount the plainness of the verse and simplicity to understand it with convoluted explanations and interpretations.
@@ricardoguzman5014Revelation 1:8 is not Christ's originally. He's speaking it as an agent as is stated in Revelation 1:1. Christ isn't speaking of himself until John mentions him in verse 13...
@@okhuibutala1640 Jesus is God and He became flesh (John 1,1-14). As He became flesh, the Father became His God (Ps 22,10). Because all flesh is submitted to God (Jer 32,27).
@@tymon1928Jesus was never worshipped. You will find not a single doxology in the New Testament addressed to Jesus. You will notice that Paul only praises God the Father, never Jesus. “Worthy are you, O lamb” in Revelation does not count because it is not worship. Even in that book only the One seated on the throne is adored and worshiped as God. He alone says “I am the Alpha and Omega”. Read Rev 22 very carefully. It clearly isn’t Jesus speaking those words.
The two witnesses are not who we thought they were. Must watch about the Two witnesses and revelation. Check this out: ua-cam.com/video/qRJ-ncor52A/v-deo.html
Jesus already came..the "faithful and true witness" and he showed us all who his God and Father is. All these deceiving lying hypocrites like Michael Brown and James White trying to say the trinity is the truth do not know the Father and they can not hear the words of Jesus
@Abraham Mani how many times do you have to post this same thing on comments?? Normally, posting your comment once is the accepted mode. Please don't flood the thread like this again.
@@joshjeggs 'In the beginning God/Elohim(Gods) created the heavens and the earth': God (Jehovah Jehovah Isaiah chapter 26 verse 4) Isaiah 45:11-22; Jesus/Word John chapter 1 verse 3, Hebrews chapter 1 verse 10: two men according to (Scripture) the law each has their own material body which is a soul and has a rhuach spirit within him John chapter 8 verses 17-18: Jesus, who had been the Word wearing a God-body Philippians chapter 2nd verse 6, created with his hands; God created Isaiah chapter 45 verses 11-12 with his hands John chapter 8 verses 17-18 one of the two witnesses about Jesus.
@King J-dub what do feeling have to do with this? No where in the old testament does it speak of a trinity or jesus being the son of God... the first 3 commandments say I am the LORD thy God. No other gods before me. No graven images or likenesses.
@@bournrich3353 The writer of Hebrews 1 is speaking of the Son who was. All things that were made according to the Fathers will and at His command He made through Jesus. As in all things its from the Father and through the Son. But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.” 10 He also says, “In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. 11 They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. 12 You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end.” 13 To which of the angels did God ever say, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet”
WOW! When Dr Tuggy spoke during his introduction it felt cold and calculated but when Dr. Brown spoke, it moved me to tears! To think that God Himself would come down and die for me, and not only that, to take upon Himself the brutal punishment I deserved is a love that is truly divine! Surely, no mere mortal could have walked in thought and in deed without sin and also take upon himself this monumental burden unless he be God! HallelluYAH!
I must caution you to NOT accept a doctrine because it feels better or because it moves you to tears. These are all very subjective things, and they are not a firm foundation upon which true Faith should be founded. God gave us the ability to reason, and we must use it when we worship Him. The truth is that the Holy Scriptures teach us that there is only one true God, Yhwh, and that the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are all called Yhwh, the only one true God. The Father sends the Son, and the Father and the Son send the Holy Ghost. The Son entered into His Creation in human flesh at a point in history, He lived a sinless human life, suffered, died, resurrected and ascended, and the Holy Ghost lives in and amongst God's people until Jesus,, the Son in human flesh, returns and He will judge us and restore all things. Holy Scripture is God speaking to us, and it is sure and trustworthy. Human emotions are not!
@@PrenticeBoy1688 YAHushua is God. I don't decide by feelings, that was just an observation. The witness of scripture is overwhelming concerning the God head of YAH. There is the Spirit of Truth and the spirit of error. Tell me please your thoghts concerning the following verse: Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Messiah. (1Co 10:1-4)
@@yosefyahu4778 Thank you for your gracious and brotherly apology. You, and as you pointed out, Dr. Brown demonstrate how Christians are to behave; something I too often struggle to do. It's important to take our opponents seriously and to read all of what they say to us, to hear them out completely. By doing so, we can more fairly and accurately address their error by the standard of the Holy Scriptures. Let the offence of the Gospel be the only cause of offence to the unbeliever.
The answer to the question @ 2:32:30 - Therefore, when He came into the world, He said: "Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME. (Heb 10:5) Also Messiah says: "Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. "No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I HAVE POWER TO LAY IT DOWN, and I HAVE POWER TO TAKE IT AGAIN. This command I have received from My Father." (Joh 10:17-18) Question: How did Yahushuah raise His own body while being dead?
God raised Jesus from the dead by his Spirit. Romans 8:11 "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."
@ 51:11 Dr. Tuggy, the text plainly says that the Word became Flesh! The word also clearly says that Christ created all things! Does no one see the issue here in Dr. Tuggy refuting the plain reading and meaning of the text?
Somebody please ask a trinitarian if they really believe they would have come up with the trinity on their own without somebody teaching them about it first.
@@hubertagamasu6283 so, you are comparing trying to understand the doctrine of the Trinity to trying to understand Quantum physics? I don't need to understand quantum physics to be saved. but yet, I can't be saved according to Dr. Brown without believing in the Trinity. and how can I believe in it if I don't comprehend it? I have been through a hundred hours of these debates and still no Trinitarian can help make sense of it. and believe me, I am trying.
Yes it certainly can be. I have struggled for a long time tying to derive at some clarity, but in the end I just couldn't excape the cleat words of God and Jesus, setting aside the opposing arguments. Jn 3"16 God Clearly stated he SENT his Son. On the Holy Mt. in the presence of John, Peter & James , God declared that Jesus was his son, the one he loved and approved, and told the three disciples to Listen to him [Jesus]. This is the same declaration Moses stated in the OT regarding a prophet like himself who was to come.. Numerous places in scriptures it states that Jesus is NOW seated at the right hand of God the Father. Theses verses are absolutely CLEART regardless of the so-called many trinirarian proof text. Even though they "appear" to carry weight of the deity of Jesus or a God-man, or God the son [no where in the Bible]. I think I will just go with what Jesus and God say regarding their identity. And save myself some headaches.
@@hubertagamasu6283quantum physics is not true! dude look up Austin Witsit. He’ll straighten up your cosmology real quick. And drop the Pharisee energy, it’s not all that convincing.
Clarifying to me. Dr. Brown exposed that Dr.. Tuggy must believe in 2 gods, father & son or else we worship, a mere created being. The Bible clearly reads Jesus is the alpha, the omega, the beginning and the end. Was there before all things were created, and all things were created through him. Jesus is the son is God. Jesus is God.
@ 45:09 Dr Tuggy states: "As the eminent scholar James Dunn says: There is no evidence that any new testament writer thought of Jesus as actually present in Israels past, neither as the angel of the LORD or as the LORD Himself" Either Dr Tuggy is totally blind because the new testament writers do without a doubt utilize old testament passages that speak of the LORD and apply them to Jesus or he is just outright lying!
Isaiah For unto us a child is born unto us a son is given and the government shall be up on his shoulders and his name shall be called wonderful counselor, the mighty God the everlasting father, the prince of peace. Amen Now tell me who Jesus is again.
Not God. Stop taking the lazy route of only employing the English of an original ancient Hebrew composition. It will get you nowhere with God. The epithets that are ascribed to the child born are not indicative of divinity. Also, is the Jesus “the father” now? Hm…Curious. It’s almost like you will pick and choose which epithets to take literally and which to spiritualize, since you apply this to Jesus. Was Jesus ever called “the father”? Nope. Why? Because he is called a spiritual brother in Hebrews and is implied to be so in Paul’s letter to the Galatians. You are out of your depth. Heed James’ warning: not everyone should become a teacher.
Dr. Brown CLEARLY won the debate..... But honestly, are any of us truly learning?? Are we actually taking notes and CHOOSING Wich side is correct, not bc it sounds good, but bbc is true..... ??? I clearly choose our God ! The Holy Trinity! Thank De. BROWN, for helping me and my family understand the beautiful trinity, and it's teachings tru out the WHOLE Bible! 💕
This may help those wondering about the death of Messiah: Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, "Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body you have prepared for me; (Heb 10:5)
Yeshua already sitting at the right hand of GOD, says, "MY GOD" - as 4 times in Revelation 3: 12. Rev 3: 12 The one who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of MY GOD and he will never again leave it. Upon him I will write the Name of MY GOD, and the name of the city of MY GOD God the new Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven from MY GOD, and My new Name.
correct , the Father is the God of the flesh and blood he himself created and wants you to understand this , give glory to the substance , not the form , the spirit , not the flesh , the being , not his manifestation , the creator , not his creation ...however , the form is directly made from Gods very word and has the fulness of the Godhead within him , the only thing Jesus ever claimed to be in him is the Father , God himself , who is holy , who is a spirit , he is then of course a holy spirit and as philippians says in THE FORM of God , the form of something is not the substance of it .......................though its Gods form and not something on its own , which is why Jesus can be worshipped and has all the same titles the Father has etc. Jesus made it plain "i come in my Fathers name" . I don't know what the issue is here? MY GOD , yes , the flesh and blood is not God ... and? thats all Gods showing you by example , Jesus did everything for us by example , God humbled himself , you can fight every scripture you want , Jesus was very clear , if ye believe not I AM HE , ye shall die in your sins , i would advise you to learn what scripture hes quoting and who the IAM and HE that Jesus refers to is , because if you dont believe Jesus to be that being , which isaiah 9:6 knows he is , you're dying in your sins , because anything else is idolatry or denial of Jesus , who is the I AM HE? ...........................................it's the Father , this is why Jesus said before abraham was i AM , because Jesus is the word of God made flesh , Gods word was before abraham , and the bible says the word IS God , God manifest in the flesh timothy says ... better start studying the bible and stop listening to these wolves , they are leading you all to hell like Jesus said they would , and if this doctrines wrong , i bet you a lot of their other doctrine is wrong , stay away from these youtubers and churches , time to study the word for real and find out the truth , your souls on the line .
@onlymyself7225 I'm having alot of trouble reconciling between these two doctrines, please pray for me. I thought the "I AM" statement from Jesus was the end all be all. However, the "I AM" from exodus in the Greek septuagint is different from the "I AM" Jesus uses in John. Exodus is "ho Theos" (I believe) and in John it is "ego eimi".
@@aka.yehoshua ho theos is the greek translation for “the God” literally translated ho-the theos-god. in exodus God says to moses I am That I am, which does not mention the word ho or theos.
Jesus said "I AM the Almighty". He also said that he was on earth and in heaven at the same time. Revelation 1:8 King James Version 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. John 3:13 King James Version 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
But on the other hand there seems to be some sort of condescension and frustration with his opponent in cross-examination. Sometimes calmness can come across as very smug and passive aggressive.
I really enjoyed this I'm actually an agnostic person just here to inform my self. I like both of them very intelligent individuals. In my personal opinion I think Dr. Tuggy sometimes takes a cynical stance disguised as calm. Like some atheist or cientist or physicists tend to do when talking about religion. I can understand why Dr. Brown gets a little frustrated. But in the end both of them managed to keep the debate civil and interesting.
Pat Riley...Dr Tuggy seems calm because his soul hs been seared, he is a tool of Satan, so of course what he lacks in the truth he can push in persona.....he reminds me of Bert Erhman - same spirit of deception Tuggy needs deliverance and the gospel.
Why is it that anyone who isn't a Trinitarian is automatically labelled as a "deceiver" and "doesn't have the spirit of Jesus" in them and "lacks the holy ghost". Can't we just be intellectual?
We can’t just have intellectual acknowledgement on this matter because we are to “know God”, “grow in the knowledge of Christ”, have our minds renewed, our hearts changed via the Holy Spirit from hearts of stone to fleshy hearts having God’s Law written on them. James 2:19 explicitly tells us that even the demons KNOW God and shudder. What does that mean? Well that means having just bare facts and a knowledge of God and who He is is completely different than TRULY KNOWING, TRUSTING, having saving faith in God. So that when or once we are completely regenerated we should bear fruit that reflects who we are now on the inside from this true knowledge of God. Doctrine by itself is no proof of saving faith. They(demons, Antichrists) know the truth about God, who Christ is, and who the Spirit is, but they hate it. Thus zero fruit is produced by these sorts in fact it’s the absence of these things that show one’s standing with God.
@@Solomonsaysno this is a lengthy reply but with little weight to it. This is what I mean by intellectual. When we just shout a verse and have our own opinion on its meaning, we lose track instantly. What I dislike most is the dismissal of unitarians as people who lack some sort of spirit. If one is to accept a spirit or Jesus as Lord and then claim they believe now before they did that as a prerequisite then we find ourselves in a self defeating argument. Heck I can guarantee many Christians are reading this and assuimg I'm passed by Satan to say this or lack some holy ghost. We need to discuss and be intellectual.
John's Gospel makes it clear that the Logos never had a beginning. "In the beginning was the word.....The imperfect, indicative, active third person singular to be verb "Was, ἦν" uncontrovertibly is a continuous past tense. The prepositional phrase "In beginning Ἐν ἀρχῇ is locative. What John is saying, according words and the grammar, is that the word already was there prior to anything which had a beginning. Also note what John says in verse 3 of the same chapter, "All things came into existence through him and without him not one thing has come into existence, which has come into existence." Dr. Tuggy is saying that God the Father must have created the word, Jesus, but this is impossible because as VS one states that the word never had a beginning and that EVERYTHING which exist was created through him. If everything was created through him, could he have had a part in creating himself? Paul states the same (Col. 1) only he uses the definite article "All things" to make it crystal clear. He also borrowed this phrase from earlier Greek writings. The readers knew absolutely what John and Paul was saying. You can say you don't believe it, but you can't say that is not what it says.
@@ibrahimalharbi3358 God created everything by himself and he has the power to do anything...so you telling me that God cannot live among men as a man?
@@hdk8727 Man is made in God's image. The relationship between a father and son on earth can be used as an image to infer back to the relationship between Jesus and his father.
@@ibrahimalharbi3358 Not a man that he should lie. Everyone forgets to finish the sentence. And as we see of the Messiah, there was no deceit in his mouth. ~Isaiah 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. "He had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth."
The authors of the first books in the Bible imagined that God looked like a mighty man Anthropomorphic They could imagine nothing more Later NT writers show God lIving in unapproachable light!
@Mark Metternich Gof did not say that God made man in his image Early scripture writers assumed that God looked like a mighty King Neigh even greater That’s all they could imagine!
Numbers 23 19 YHWH tells us He is not a man or son of man. He is invisible, He's a Spirit, He dwells in unapproachable light. No man has seen him. Reread Exodus, the people were terrified to even be in the presence of His glory! Day 6, possibly speaking to/and about Adam and Eve. Since they are the only image we know that looks like us. Creation account pattern, God states what He is going to do first and then how He does it after. Very easily could be talking to/about His creation Adam. It's the only time God speaks in plural form, even day 7, He rested, singular.
@jawnatutorow Numbers 23:19 Never said God is not a man. You should always read the scripture the right way. God is making a statement here, Never take a phrase and leave the rest out. Numbers 23:19 says, God is not a man that he should lie; Neither the son of man, that he should repent. Hath he said, and shall he not do it? Or hath he spoken, and shall not make it good?
@(( Christian Man )) Mr " Christian man" this is something for you to think about, you will die in your sins unless you believe that I AM you will die in your sins, in the literal Greek it's I Am not I Am he, I wonder whether that I Am has ever echoed something to you
@@sethlubega3153 If you don't believe that Jesus is Christ, the Son of God you will die in your sins. If you believe that he is Christ, the Son of God you will have life through his name. See John 20:31 God made Jesus Lord and Christ See Acts 2:36
@@iamdenisehiers6719 you mean the same acts that tells you God purchased the church with his own blood acts 20:28, the I AM the Lord Jesus uses in John 8:24 is the I AM God uses to describe himself in Deuteronomy 32: 39 it's I Am without nothing added to , the I AM where the Divine name YAHWEH is derived, mind you in John 1:1 they have already told you the word is God, yes the Lord Jesus is God one with the Father and holy Spirit
@@sethlubega3153 God was in Christ ......but the Father that dwelleth in me ,he doeth the works. See John 14:10 Also, Matthew 12:28 " But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you." Also Acts 2:22, "Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth a man approved by God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you......" God was in Christ. Amen.
@@priscillajervey1947 Well it is all over the place in the scriptures. But you all are the last days christians who spend a lot of time in the world and in worldliness but wants to understand this Triune nature of the living God. Father,Son, Holy Spirit. The word and eyewitness was given to our blessed appossles who had gone before us. And that's why when we study the bible we search through the their report of what they saw and what was given to them. Do here John he said they're three that bares record in heaven. And again he said in the beginning was the word. And the word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. He that was with God is his blessed SON. Thou shalt not suffer thy Holy One to see curruption. Father glorify me with the glory I had with you from the beginning. Oneness philosophy debunked. That why I quote only what my big brothers wrote because they were eye witness to these accounts. These modern socalled prophet, pastor, evangelist, appossles, in modern times will stand before the Lord for blasphemy and unbelief.
Dr Tuggy said many times about some versus; the "scholars says". To me that sounds like the Roman Catholicism, they also says that whatever their "scholars said" .
He only appeals to scholars in cases where the trinitarian believer would be swayed by scholars. The final authority on theology for the unitarian is the scriptures, not 3rd and 4th century converted philosophers.
I found this debate to be very informative. I have accepted Jesus Christ as my messiah and I love him so much. He is my way to God and to his Kingdom. I think The Unitarian approach is aligned with the Torah and the Ten Commandments. I am humbled and confused and looking forward to eternal learning and education about God. I do feel confident that God is one. Maybe God’s word became flesh and that is also aligned with genesis chapter one. God says and it is created. Thank you so much for a very good meaningful debate. ❤❤❤😊😊😊🎉🎉🎉
With respect to ”maybe God’s Word became flesh” doesn’t sound like you’re a believer in Christ because that’s who Christ is. So you’d have to believe it is so, not maybe so. Once you determine that, then you have to concede to Him being God, because the place where scripture says “The Word became flesh” also says “The Word was God”.
@@SaveOurChildren7 Yes, if He becomes a man, He can experiance human death. But Gods divine nature cant die of course. As it says, the Word of God became flesh and suffered in the flesh, as the man Jesus Christ
Dr. Tuggy is very confused,whenever he is cornered he resorts to saying it's Dr. Brown who is misinterpreting the verse. Dr. Brown had the spirit of God with him,on the other hand, Dr. Tuggy is struggling to answer very simple questions. I think Brown explained everything correctly. Tuggy on the hand, is teaching a false gospel.
The problem with Tuggy's argument is that he likes to argue from a philosophical view. Dr. Brown argued strictly from a Biblical perspective. You will not win a theological debate with philosophy- Colossians: 2:8 "See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ."
difference is,brown is commiting something called gish gallop,meanwhile tuggy is quoting all the verses essentially needed for this topic @@prayingpatriot8018
Michael Brown at 1:07:40 "I came jealous for a full revelation of the love of God, who demonstrates His great heart for us not by sending a glorified man to die for us, but by giving of His very self, His own Son, His own unique Son, coming into this world." This sentence makes no sense to me. Brown says the Son of God is God's very self (and not in the sense of someone's child metaphorically being their "heart"). Brown is saying God's Son is God Himself. Why on earth would God use the phrase "Son" rather than simply "Myself"? It makes God seem like He's playing with words to confuse us. Also, the way Brown speaks makes it seem like God sending Himself is a great thing, but God sending the man Jesus (who IS God's Son) is some kind of lesser act to be looked down upon. Overall great debate.
You need the Holy Spirit to make understand the scriptures brother. Dr Brown is full of the Holy Spirit and the other dude is not, He is just religious not spiritual.
God says son because God is not the flesh itself , he is the spirit manifest IN the flesh , as scripture says , God wants you to understand the difference between his form and his substance ... God is not a human being , God manifest in a human he created by making his word flesh , something we cant do , sure , but all in scripture . The Father , created the form , the form is a man , whats the most fitting title.... son , is it not? God is not the form , the man , he is the substance within it , who , created it , its all Gods , which is why it can be equal to God , known as God , its his visible image and express image of his person , his word , his name , i might have God in me now but im not all those things , there is a difference made between us as a man and Jesus as a man and of course the form and the substance . philippians 2 will help you understand this more , and so God humbled himself it says and took on THE FORM of a servant , Jesus made claims only God can make plenty of times , he revealed himself plainly , before abraham was i am , destroy this temple in three days i will raise it up , im alpha and omega , if ye believe not i am he ye shall die in your sins , all of this says who he is , the jews were not confused by his claims , they simply didnt believe him , they said they wanna kill him because "being a man thou makest thyself God" ...clearly they knew Jesus was telling them hes the Father , and when philip was confused , he made it plain , you see me , you seen the father , i and my father are one , from henceforth ye know him and have seen him . people can find fancy ways to explain all this , its plain and simple speech .
@@onlymyself7225 amen brother. helped me understand it more than most youtube preachers who desperately try to differentiate the father and son. meanwhile i always viewed it simply as u stated, the perfect manifestation of the lord god in the flesh. His word and essence made flesh. god did not leave heaven to dwell among us, his word was made into flesh and dwelt among us. His very own son whom he loves because in essence it is him, eternally coexistant with him, everything made through his word and spirit. that’s why jesus will send the spirit from the father as the mediator between man and god; the god man. He will send the spirit from the father. He will raise himself up. and he commands his spirit into his fathers hands. beautiful
@@yonasfesseha4900 Jesus referred to himself as “God’s Son” or “the Son of God.” (John 10:36; 11:4) Jesus never identified himself as Almighty God. Moreover, Jesus prayed to God. (Matthew 26:39) And while teaching his followers how to pray, Jesus said: “Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.”-Matthew 6:9
@@Azarable yeah he is the unique son of God. Because jesus never said I am God doesn't mean he isn't God. If I say I'm God doesn't make me a God just because I said it. And is it the only way to know if someone is God or not just by claiming his God? I mean who can have the attributes of God except God himself. Like jesus is the beginning and the end the alpha and omega the first and the last. He is the resurrection. He is the king of king and lord of lord. He is the good shepherd. He is the father of eternity. He is THY truth. He is Thy life. He created all things, he accepted worship, He existed before the world was. This are the attributes of God so who can have those attributes except God himself? So if jesus have those attributes what is he saying to us? Its obvious. Yeah jesus prayed, jesus called the father his God, jesus got hungry, jesus got tired, jesus wasnt all knowing, jesus had all this human nature. Why because he was truly man and truly God the incarnation called the hypostatic union. This all thing u see is based on his human nature. Why did jesus prayed because he became a man. when he became a man why should he stop talking to the father? Prayer is a way of communicating with God. Why did jesus call the father his God because he bacame a man. When he became a man he's not gonna be a hard athiest is he? Why should he stop his relationship with the father? Why should he stop talking to the father? In Jeremiah it clearly states that God is the God of all flesh. So when the son became a man he worships the father in the flesh.
@@yonasfesseha4900 Jesus (Yeshua) Christ made a clear distinction between him and his Father Does the identity of God have to be “a very profound mystery”? It did not seem so to Jesus. In his prayer to his Father, Jesus (Yeshua) Christ made a clear distinction between him and his Father when he said: “This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus (Yeshua) Christ.” (John 17:3) If we believe Jesus and understand the plain teaching of the Bible, we will respect him as the divine Son of God that he is. We will also worship Jehovah as “the only true God.” Jesus (Yeshua) Christ said that “the true worshipers will worship the Father with . . . truth.” (John 4:23) That truth has been recorded in the Bible. (John 17:17) Does the Bible teach that the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit are three persons in one God? For one thing, the Bible does not mention the word “Trinity.” For another, Jesus (Yeshua) Christ never claimed to be equal to God (Yahweh). Instead, Jesus worshipped God (Yahweh). (Luke 22:41-44) A third line of evidence concerns Jesus’ relationship with his followers. Even after he was raised from the dead to the spirit realm, Jesus (Yeshua) called his followers “my brothers.” (Matthew 28:10) Were they brothers of Almighty God? Of course not! But through their faith in Christ-God’s preeminent Son-they too became sons of the one Father. (Galatians 3:26) Compare some additional scriptures with the following statement from the creed attributed to the Council of Nicaea.
This "debate" complete aside, there is one thing in those discussions never addressed, and that is that the bible differs from all pagan religions in the point of having one God, not more than the one God. Trinitarianism, polytheism, is of pagan roots and the bible proofs that over and over and that is never discussed.
Always a pleasure to hear Mr. Tuggy. Quick note, Jude talk about Jesus freeing his people in Egypt. Also, Jesus himself also talks about knowing Abraham in the gospels.
Really? Where in Scriptures did Jesus and Abraham meet? Did they talk with one another? Abraham had a revelation from God the Father of the coming Messiah. Is that so hard to comprehend. God sees things that are as though they have already happened. When scriptures speak of David"s and Abraham's seed , who do you suppose it is making reference? The Messiah Jesus.
”And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; and he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, and said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:“ Genesis 18:1-3 KJV Although the other 2 are later identified as angels in Genesis 19:1, some say the 3 are the Triune God coming down to earth to speak with Abraham.
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is One! Deut 6:4 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 1 Tim 2:5 Jesus said to her, "...'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'" John 20:17 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort. 2 Cor 1:3 The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. Acts 3:13 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 1 Cor 11:3 Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!" Luke 9:35 I myself have seen, and have testified that this is the Chosen One of God. John 1:34 Because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead." Eph 1:4 Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, YOU WILL BE SAVED. Rom 10:9
Dr. Brown, if falling to our knees to worship the son will please the father, like you say, I'm terribly confused by this if they are not separate people.
One of the audience there asked a question to Micheal Brown (@ 2.02.02). The question was how come Jesus did not know the hour if he was God (God the Son). Brown suddenly sticked on man Jesus and said man Jesus did not know the hour. But in the verse Jesus said neither angels nor the "son" can know the hour. For that question, Brown chooses to focus on "man Jesus", but same Dr. Brown denied Son Jesus's death because he believes "Son" is divine God and cannot die, so "man Jesus" could die only. But to the new question he focused on "man Jesus", instead of "son" (according to him divine part of Jesus), however in the verse it is said, "son can not know the hour". In fact, Brown's theology is crushed because he says that "son Jesus" cannot die since" son Jesus" is God part of Jesus, on the other hand, Brown says "son Jesus" cannot know the hour because he is a man.... Confusion...
@Saint Belligerant Yes, it is sad. I was doing the same thing, ignoring the other thing since I was told and taught trinitarian idea. But there was always questions since it was not all things summed up. So I decided to study all the written words in the bible as it is.
@@achsevin6505 I guess the one who should answer to your question is not us, but trinitarian friends. To us Jesus never lied, he always said he is servant son of God, Messiah. He was one man who has been given authority and a mission by God. He said his a God, he said he has a God is the same God of us, both his and our Heavenly Father (John 17:3, 20:17).
@@achsevin6505 Nowhere. I am not the one who claim that Jesus is God. He is god as it is written in Psalms 82:6, sons of God called as "el" in hebrew "a god" in English, but not in literal meaning. I am not a trinitarian. I reject the idea of God's being more than one person or personality. I am not amodelist. I am not a Jehovah Witness. I am not a Mormon, I am not a Muslim. I just a Christian which means follower of Christ, I believe what he said, there is one only true God that is only Heavenly Father (John 17:3), and this Heavenly Father who is only treu God is both his and our God (John 20:17). I am a unitarian christian.
Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should strike the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fireceness and wrath of Almighty God. 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. Incase anyone missed it, it's the wrath of Almighty God, and he is LORD. ~ The Word of God ~Jn 1:1
@@AndrewGiles688God means mighty one, not Yahweh. He's definitely our god in that he is our king and ruler but he's not the one true god, that being the father, a separate being.
Alright 38 minutes in, and you HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE the fact that dales intro was a lot of "cannot be, because" rather than simply using scripture to refute the trinitarian position. He spoke more than he used Gods word. And Browns opening, literally all he's USING is scripture to state his case. Not to say Dale didn't use really good points. He did. But we didn't come here to hear dales words. But Gods. You have to acknowledge these things.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. (Joh 1:1-3) LET ME REPEAT: NOTHING WAS MADE THAT WAS MADE! NOTHING! SO WHO EXISTED BEFORE ALL CREATION CAME TO BE? YAHUSHUAH HA MACHIACH!
Deut 18: 18 -19 YHWH clears up Jesus being the word misunderstanding. God put His word inside Jesus to speak on His behalf. Jesus is not the word literally. Genesis 1, God alone, singular, created everything through speaking His word. Isaiah 44, 45 God alone created everything. God didn't use Jesus to speak his word until he was born. Hebrews 1. If you say that Jesus is the Word and that he is in the old testament speaking for/as God, then you are saying scripture is wrong and your interpretation is right.
@@jawnatutorow Jesus does ALL the things that only God can do! He creates the world, fights Israel's battles, forgives sins, raises from the dead, gives sight to the blind, causes the lame to walk, destroys the antichrist, need I say more? Look, if a man has a son, is that son any less human than the father even though he is subject to the father? Messiah YAHushuah is of the Father, from the bosom of God the Father, he is NOT a created being. John 1:3 clearly states that NOTHING that was made was made apart from Him! The flesh, the living temple was created and formed within Miriam, this is why it is said: "A body you have prepared for me." (Hebrews 10:5) And also: "Destroy this temple and I WILL RAISE IT UP AFTER THREE DAYS." Here is more witness from the book of Hebrews: (Hebrews 1:1-3 UKJV) God, who at several times and in divers manners spoke in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Has in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he has appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word (o. rhema) of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high: Notice that a distinction is made between the prophets and God's beloved Son! I suggest you all pray and read the book of Hebrews. YAH bless.
Dale Tuggy argues that Jesus is not divine because Colossians 1, John 1:3 and 1 Corinthians 8:6 say all things were made ‘through’ Jesus and Dale Tuggy says that word means Jesus was an instrument and that the Father is the ultimate source and therefore the real God. The Greek word in Colossians 1, John 1:3 and 1 Corinthians 8:6 which is translated as ‘through’ is: διά This argument by Dale Tuggy can easily be shown to be nonsense and false by Romans 11:36 where it says all things are made ‘through’ (same Greek word: διά ) God the Father/Yahweh. Therefore, according to Dale Tuggy, if he’s going to be consistent, the use of that exact same word ‘through/διά’ in Romans 11:36 must mean God the Father was an instrument used by someone else. This is nonsense. The Greek word ‘διά’ is also sometimes translated simply as ‘by’. This argument by Dale Tuggy either shows his ignorance of this, or he’s being dishonest by concealing this information which would destroy his argument. Neither of those is good.
Modalist Protestant heretics like Dr. Brown are the reason why Tuggy exists. This clown embarrasses himself not knowing who are the persons who are the subjects in the verses he quoted & constantly blasphemes the Father YHVH. Despicable...
Both Brown & Tuggy are heretics, so stop being 1 sided. How about attacking Protestant Brown on his Modalist heresy & blasphemy against the Father or ignorance of Scripture?
Listen, even the Roman Centurion could understand.. keeping guard over Jesus, when they saw the earthquake and the things that were happening, became very frightened and said, “Truly this was the Son of God!” (Matt. 27:45-54).
Dr.Dale Tuggy: "Some scholars say" Dr.Michael Brown: "The Scriptures say" He nailed it! Thank you,Dr.Brown I really admire your body of work! YESHUA- "The Great I AM
Joseph Smith and many other false prophets also say, "the scriptures say." You are simplifying Dr. Tuggy's postion to try and knock it down. That's a strawman argument. Dr. Tuggy referred both to scholars AND scripture as he gives a better overall context. Which is necessary part of being a good Bible student.
AMEN! Keep spreading the Truth and the Good News! Isaiah 9:6 “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” This verse and prophecy clearly speaks to The Trinity and our Saviour JESUS CHRIST! ✝️✡️
This debate is easy to win. Just ask Michael if God has a God above him. Which Michael will have to say no, there is no God above God. He will try to sly his way with working Jesus as God, but all you have to point out is Jesus calls the Father greater than himself, also the Father is his God, and lastly Jesus is always the second to the Father in heaven and on earth, yet God is not second to any. Case closed.
Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Jesus humbled himself and took on flesh, he became a humble servant, and as a humble servant why wouldn't he obey his Father who is also God, when the bible tells us to honour thy Father and thy Mother, why wouldn't Jesus do so also? When he came, he came to not abolish the law, but to fulfill the law, in which he did in part by honouring his Father and Mother. God is God of all flesh, and when Jesus who is God became flesh and dwelt among us, (1Timothy 3:16 God was manifest in the flesh) doesn't negate that fact.
@@bradbradbury8561 the form of God means his nature. How can an infinite being become less-than infinite? How can an All-powerful being become a powerless human that Depends on another power to achieve miracles? Why is god invisible? He isn’t! It’s just that we can’t even begin to fathom his form/nature. And these verses put an Infinite being into a tiny box. Jesus has deceived all believers.
@@TheBookOfLife7 An infinite being can do anything an infinite being wants to do, thus the term infinite. The minute you say he can't they become less than infinite. Thus when it say in Philippians 2:8 He humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross, it is totally possible to humble himself, if he couldn't humble himself he would become less than infinite. This it only possible if you are an infinite being, and for anyone to say it couldn't happen, doesn't believe in his infinity. When his body died, his spirit didn't die, it went back to the Father. "Into thine hands I commit my spirit" Only the body died, not the spirit. Christ is much more that a body in which he took on flesh and dwelt among us. If an all powerful being can be limited then he ceases the be all powerful. And as Christ has said when speaking of himself and of his bodily resurrection said "I will raise it up on the third day" ~ John 2:19 Only an all powerful infinite being could do such a thing, of which Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour is.
Jesus says this in John 11:25-26 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believe in me shall never die. Believest thou this? "Whosoever liveth and believe in me shall never die" ~Jesus Now if a mere mortal, a human being who believes in Christ shall never die, as Jesus says in verse 26, how much more possible is it for Christ who is God himself to do so also being that he's God? Now that is an infinite all powerful God if ever there was one, not only to raise himself up after the death of his body, but to raise ours up also. Only God could do such a thing, of which Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour is, amen.
@@bradbradbury8561 John 5:26 “The Father has life in himself, and HE has GRANTED that same life-giving power to his Son.” Matthew 28:18-20 “Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been Given to me. Therefore, go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.” Revelation 13:4-8 “People worshipped the dragon because HE had GIVEN authority to the beast, and they also worshipped the beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can wage war against it? The beast was GIVEN a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise it’s AUTHORITY for forty-two months (3.5 years) It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. It was Given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was GIVEN Authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast (Matthew 24:14 & Matthew 28:19) - all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.” Daniel 7:8 “while I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully.” Daniel 7:25 “He will speak against the Most High and oppress his people and try the change the set times AND the Laws. The Holy People will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time. (Revelation 13:5) So do you actually know who Jesus is? Because I’m sure you do now.
why i see always the debaters that defend CHRIST, full of the SPIRIT speaking so fluid to the point that the debate even looks unfair...is like an adult debating a little child....
Because before accepting trinity, one must throw rationality out of the window and accept emotional feelings. I agree with you. I see that too. They are too emotional rather than talking in a scholarly way. But it's not their fault. Actually they can't rationally about trinity which is itself irrational concept. Even people gets hyped when they are drunk or on drugs. Christian debaters are like them.
@@One-rr8um I'm concerned that you may have exalted your human rationality above God and his Word. He is not to be made a slave to your understanding, but your understanding is to be made subject to Him.
God is not irrational and he's very plain about his own limitations and attributes throughout the Bible. At some point if he was 3 people then he would have brought it up.
Another thing Tuggy misses when he says there was no controversy related to Christ’s Deity. I disagree. Read Matt. 26:62-65. I along with most exegetes consider the “Son of Man” to be a reference to Dan. 7:14-14 which was understood by His opponents as a claim to Deity. Since falsely claiming to be an exalted purely human messiah is not blasphemy, it’s evident they are charging Him with claiming, not this lesser Messianic claim, but by “Son of God” and referring to this passage with claiming the *greater* claim to be a Divine Messiah. Since they rejected His claims already, this was nothing short-in the eyes-to a blasphemous claim to Godhood. Hence they voted to condemn Him.
Love these two speakers so much! No hate to my trinitarian friends, I use to be a trinitarian all my life. There’s a lot of research to do so if you all are up for dabbling in Greek, go for it! It’s wonderful to know that when the Bible says our God is one, we can believe it.
All love I dont want to argue but what about John 8:58, revelation 2:23 Jesus literally says basically the same thing that God says in Jeremiah 17:10. John 16:25-31. If you see John 16;25-31 Jesus says he came from God and "again" is going back to God or with God and that relates to John 1:1.
From genesis to revelations the Trinity exists, God, Elohim, plural, let “us” make man in “our” image. Let us (plural) confuse there language gen 11:7 and the lord (single) confused there language gen 11:9. Genesis 18:1-2 Now the Lord appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day. When he lifted up his eyes and looked, behold, three men were standing opposite him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them and bowed himself to the earth, “Now the Lord appeared to him” and “When he lifted up his eyes and looked, behold, three men were standing opposite him” the Bible is lettered with the Trinity tell me if you want more verse I figured I’d just give you a few from genesis
@Mick Erikson you just don’t understand the Trinity and you think I believe in three Gods, that’s wrong I bro lie with in one God just the way the Bible explains the Trinity. I gave you verses so exegete those verses don’t give me other verses if you can prove my verses wrong
@Mick Erikson like I said you can’t prove that biblically you have just been taught some heretical teaching, and you will die in your sins because of it. Exodus 3:14 God says I am who I am Jesus says in John 8:58 before Abraham was “I am” And in 8:24 he says if you do not believe I am he you will die in your sins. Prove to me that he is not God using the Bible, don’t just yap
I wish dr. Tuggy would've used 1 chronicles 29:20 to support the kind of worship Jesus received... And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the LORD your God. And all the congregation blessed the LORD God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the LORD, and the king.
@EOTJ APOLOGETICS please prove what u claimed by using any hermeneutical approach. U obviously dont understand near eastern culture or ethics. Bowing down or prostrating one self is an act of homage and reverence one gives to someone in a higher place. The west sees such action as a form of worship. And so western scholars confuse themselves and refuse to see Jesus getting the same type of reverence given to him. Instead would rather say he was being worshipped with the same religious intent as YHWH himself. Even when tempted in the wilderness, Jesus quoted that one should worship and serve God only. He never told his tempter to worship him. Even the demons believe God is one and they tremble. Trinitarians have no fear of God believing he is 3. Please study both Greek words and forms of worship and how its used in all contexts when everyone bows the knee to Jesus. After you've done a thorough study, come back to me and we will discuss it. David was revered because he was Gods Christ/Messiah (anointed one) and king. So is Jesus but with much higher authority... seated at Gods right hand. Jesus deserves praise and adoration to the glory of God the Father who made him and anointed him. Jesus entire ministry was aimed to bring peace between us and our Creator through himself alone. One mediator between God and man, the man Jesus Christ.
@EOTJ APOLOGETICS I appreciate ur kind demeanor. As a Greek student, what exactly is proskuneo and how is it used in the context of rev 5? I posted the Hebrew equivalent to proskuneo by citing 1 Chronicle 29:20. Both subjects, whether God and king, or God and Lamb are both being bowed down to in proskuneo (worship). Also all creation bows down to Jesus because he is "firstborn" (preeminent) over all creation. And he is worthy of praise and proskuneo. Nowhere in the text does it indicate that because Jesus was not categorized with the other creation that he himself is not created. You are inserting your theology into the plain reading of the text. Not very hermeneutical in your approach sir. Please reexamine the 1 chronicles 29 passage and compare it to rev 5. There is virtually no difference in the manner "worship" is used in both contexts...
@@chinochris3181 "The word "proskuneo" means "to kiss the hand, bow down before, show obeisance, to worship." Since the Jehovah's Witnesses deny that Jesus is God, they maintain that He is not to be worshipped. So, how does the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society translate the word "proskuneo" in their Greek New Testament in reference to Jesus and other objects of adoration? The NWT nevertranslates the word into "worship" when it references Jesus. It does, however, render the word as "worship" regarding the devil, the dragon, the beast, the image, demons, idols, and an angel. Of course, they correctly translate it as "worship" when it deals with God. Is the New World Translation biased against worshipping Jesus? It would surely seem so and especially since the NASB, NIV, KJV, NKJV, etc., all translate the word as "worship" in reference to Jesus." AND "First of all, 1 Chron. 29:20 obviously cannot mean that David was worshiped equally with God. This would be blasphemy. Therefore, it is best to translate the Hebrew word shachah as "pay homage" or "bow down" as is attested to by other translations. "Then David said to all the assembly, "Now bless the Lord your God." And all the assembly blessed the Lord, the God of their fathers, and bowed low and did homage to the Lord and to the king," (NASB)."Then David said to the whole assembly, "Praise the LORD your God." So they all praised the LORD, the God of their fathers; they bowed low and fell prostrate before the LORD and the king," (NIV)."Then David said to all the assembly, "Now bless the Lord your God." So all the assembly blessed the Lord God of their fathers, and bowed their heads and prostrated themselves before the Lord and the king," (NKJV)."Then David said to all the assembly, "Bless the Lord your God." And all the assembly blessed the Lord, the God of their fathers, and bowed their heads and paid homage to the Lord and to the king," (ESV). Is it legitimate to translate the verse this way? Yes it is because it is consistent with Hebrew dictionaries which tell us that the word shachah can mean worship, bow down, obeisance, reverence, fall down, crouch, prostrate oneself, (Enhanced Strong's Lexicon, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1995.) See the same thing stated in The Abridged Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew-English Lexicon of the Old Testament, Richard Whitaker, Editor, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997). This would easily demonstrate that David was not being worshiped. Instead, homage was being paid to him as was also being paid to God--though, of course, there is no confusion about who is God and who is not." Moreover, when the Ancient Days is explicitly shown sharing his divinity with the "one like a son of man" (keep in mind that "like" indicates that the being isn't human: it usually signifies angels, but no angel would be given shared divinity with YHWH, and this is further clarified by Hebrews 1) the word used for "worship" is pelach, which is a different Hebrew word the one that appears in the scene with David. This means that the word pelach is in some way directly connected to divinity, unlike other words that could have been chosen. The point being, mixing New Testament texts with Old Testament texts without discernment has many many problems to it.
@@blanktrigger8863 the problem is you are also taking bias just as JWs concerning shachah or proskuneo. U accuse JWs for changing the meaning of worship when it concerns Christ. But u have no problem when trinitarians change the meaning to suit worship to Christ. Context always determines the use of the word. U said correctly that "only" God receives worship. There is only one God, YHWH (deut 6:4). So only God receives religious worship. if anyone else besides YHWH is receiving shachah/proskuneo a long with him, they are being shown reverence. The english translation of Hebrew and Greek words for worship causes confusion. KJV had no problem translating it into worship in 1 chronicles 29 because that's what it literally says. Worship of God alone is a worship only given to our Creator. Bowing down to his anointed (Messiah) is our demonstration of giving him glory. I think u should study a bit more on near eastern culture. Learn more about bowing customs in those days and why they were performed. God and His Christ both deserve to be kneeled to in reverence and awe. But God alone deserves his unique worship as Creator of all.
Dr. Brown won, Tuggy didn't have good attack points and quoted others and brought up creeds and less of scripture. His first presentation was interesting but didn't have much to stand on, he cherry picked church father's and says the Greek scripture was wrong just to fit his view.
El Gibborim is used in Eze 32:21 for a group of men. Every one of them is an El Gibbor. It is factually inaccurate for Dr Brown to assert El Gibbor as an exclusive title for Yahweh.
@@JuanLopez-rl7ry Ele/Eli is spelled the same way as Eli in Psalm22:1 in Hebrew. The root word is El. Just look at Biblehub H410. So it is not false just same word, but can be used as singular, plural or adjective. May God the Father blessing, love and truth be with you, in Lord Jesus Christ Name, Amen!❤️
@@yeahwheey1Yeah your right only difference is one is singular and one is plural it's still the same basic word, like in english we have hat and hats, slightly different spelling still same basic word in meaning.
El gibbon is a ‘red herring ‘ The event being referred to in Isaiah 9 was the birth of a Davidic King and the words the Heavenly Council would use to greet his birth! Some Christians have readdressed these words to Christ! Incorrectly! But they keep doing it!
@@johnbrien6313 LOL! David was buried for 275 years when Isaiah prophesy 9:6. After Solomon the kingdom was devided. A Davidic king would ruled all Isreal not just Judah. 60 years later you're in captivity and ruled by 4 beast empires then Jerusalem was made desolate for 1878 years. Dan. 9:24-27 happened with the last week still to play out. Your Temple stones still remain thrown down crying out "a plase for trumpeting" if I recall correctly. JESUS is the only canidate being from the line of Jesse>David>Nathan on the seed of the woman side and the laws of inheritance on Joseph's line Jesse>David>Solomon. GOD is not a nan such as HE would lie. It all went down to the day and hour. HIS will be done. Some Christians still do? Isa. 9:1-6 is quoted as being fulfilled in Mat. 4:11-16. I'm happy your not associating yourself with Christianity, we'll consider you a mission field.
Dr. Tuggy - thank you so much for this! Dr. Brown is throwing scriptures out, but is not sound in his arguments on a number of points. I am not sure Dr. Brown really even makes a good Trinitarian. Some of his arguing clearly is laced with Sabellianism - Most people are impressed with his throwing up a lot of scriptures and don't realize how unsound Brown actually is. If I were a Trinitarian, I would not depend on Brown for understanding of these things.
Dr tuggy did terrible. But that’s mostly because scripture refutes his downgrading of Jesus and scripture. I would urge you not to take away glory from Jesus.
Debates are painful to watch sometimes. I think it would be cool to hear a debater say something like, "I understand how you could see that..." or "that makes sense but this is why I disagree..." Instead, it seems like no one will give an inch of logic to the other side.
What bothers me is, why did God allow these few passages that caused this doctrine to become so divisive? Why wasn't the Nician council discussed ? Imagine the winners murdering the losers! That speaks volumes of the evil of the winer's.
@@johngravinese2521 in those days there were some issues going on, people got kill just because they thought different. Just by saying "ok , but what about " dead.
@@johngravinese2521 hi there, just out of curiosity did you ever research the truth about what led up to the council in Nicea and what took place, who the members were ,etc? Reason I ask is because I always hear people speak about this council but rarely does it seem they know anything about it. Its just proposed that the Trinity was made up etc. I used to believe this before I actually researched in depth. Just curious if you did as well.
@@johngravinese2521 Maybe God wanted us to look closer at this. His reasoning is beyond what we can comprehend. Ask God why these things happen, he may or may not answer. It is for us to seek his guidance, to be closer to God.
Dr Brown was more convincing using truth of scripture. Dr Tuggy struggled using man made theory which didn't make sense, because he knows scripture doesn't support his argument.
@Lori Dann Jesus says that the Father knows more than the Son does. If Jesus were part of Almighty God, however, he would know the same facts as his Father. So, then, the Son and the Father cannot be equal. Yet, some will say: ‘Jesus had two natures. Here he speaks as a man.’ But even if that were so, what about the holy spirit? If it is part of the same God as the Father, why does Jesus not say that it knows what the Father knows?
@Abraham Mani Yes it is very that Jesus is the only way to salvation but he is not God (Jehovah/Yahweh). He is his son. The Trinity is a false doctrine bro.
1 Timothy 2:5 [5] For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and mankind, the Man Christ Jesus, But for God it's good and acceptable Man jesus to be mediator🤷🏻♀️
If what you said is correct, that the mediator must be both God and man, why did Paul say specifically "the man"? Why did he not say "the God and man, Jeus Christ"? Surely he would have? Pretty important?
@glenfrazer753 I will ask you this! How is it possible that any human being is capable of not sinning ever not once in thought or in deed! Think about that for a moment! And to add another witness , read this: John 20:28 (WEBM) Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!"
@@yosefyahu4778 To answer your, question, he did not sin because of his perfect obedience. Difficult to imagine, I agree, but it's what God first sought from the first man, Adam. But he failed. The second Adam did not fail. A human who fulfilled the law by not sinning. The whole basis of the atonement is the law being fulfilled by a man. Now back to the question I asked you please. Why did Paul sepcifically say the mediator was "the man", and not help us understand he was both God and man by saying it during this key discussion?
@@mitchelladkins3502 1stCorinthians chapter 10 verse 4 shows Christ follows/doesn't lead Israel out of Egypt. Exodus chapter 13 verse 21 'the LORD went before them in a pillar of a cloud by day and in a pillar of fire by night'.
@One God One Christ 1stCorinthians chapter 10 verse 4 Christ follows/doesn't lead Israel out of Egypt. Exodus chapter 13 verse 21 'the LORD went before them in a pillar of a cloud by day and in a pillar of fire by night'.
One God one Christ You call the WORD of GOD corupted, why? Because it doesn't fit your cult's fubar doctrine? So let us write our own bible, with our doctrins? Who is on the throne in Isaiah 6:1? Gen. 15:1, 4 in the Hebrew reads WORD YHWH came unto Abraham in a vision, WORD YHWH says.to him. Genesis has all three individuals echad "unified" YHWH, WORD YHWH and MESSENGER YHWH. Who is Melchizedek in Gen 14:18, Isa 9:6 and Heb. 7:1?
I have to be honest - Dr. Tuggy was surprisingly good and Dr. Brown was surprisingly bad. If you give points for throwing out scripture, then Brown wins. If you give points on what the scriptures are actually saying and what they mean - then Tuggy wins easily.
@@rickhuntling7338 I noticed this too! Carefully watch what happens at 1:35 ... Dr Brown has just made a serious claim, and tried to splash a handful of verses and move on without clarifying. Dr Tuggy then goes to 1 Thessalonians 3:11-13 and simply reads it out and shows that Dr Brown was seriously misinforming the audience!
@@lizzard13666 LOL it's his opening statement so you spill out your argument than build later. Is this your 1st debate? Tuggy actually mis quotes and changes the scripture to suite his make believe. Tuggy actually believes JESUS was begotten at birth on earth in flesh. Philp. 2:6-9 blew that lie out of the water. You cult members make many gods in heaven with the FATHER one of many. It's blasphemous and pagan. Brown inlightened the audience Tuggy was the devil's advocate. .
@@rickhuntling7338 No it's not his opening statement, it's 1 hour and 35 minutes in. Dr Brown has already been making the point that supposedly "God AND Jesus" get referred to collectively with singular pronouns. Dr Tuggy actually reads out one of the passages surrounding the verse Dr Brown refers to in 1 Thess 3:13. When you read v12 as well, it makes it clear that the "he" in v13 is ONLY referring to Jesus (Lord). I don't want to sound rude, but did you honestly rewatch and listen to the section I'm talking about? Your response indicates that you didn't engage with it, as your response is a little off topic!
I have no idea what that claim means. Perhaps you have some examples to help show that Dr. Brown threw out Scriptures with incorrect interpretation? But please make sure that doesn’t mean “incorrect” pre-assuming Unitarianism. (However, I’ll grant you a couple that-at least in English-don’t imply a singular pronoun for both. I see room for separation of Whom is being addressed in 1 Thess. 3:11-13 & 2 Thess. 2:16-17. Now maybe there’s something about the Greek I don’t understand-which Brown hints at-but until I do *I* wouldn’t rely on those for proof.)
God said let all angles worship him referring to the son but you shall worship God alone and God doesn’t share his glory with anyone so whenGod said thy throne oh God is forever speaking of the son. When Jesus said before Abraham was I am claiming to be equal To God. In Genesis the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters is that not God? When Thomas put his fingers in the holes in his hand he said my Lord and my God Jesus did not rebuke him for that why? Jesus says to Phillip if you’ve seen me you’ve seen the father what does that mean. Jesus also said I and the father are one
@@dhodzmelgar2933 fully man and fully god. Fully square yet fully circle. The cake is there but you ate it. Complete left yet completely right. Anything else?
I believe he was attempting to express that necessity and obviousness of the death of Jesus's flesh but not his supernatural expression of eternal existence. As a point of explanation: Matt 10:28: "And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but are not able to kill the soul, but instead be afraid of the one who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. " Matt 27:50: "And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice and gave up his spirit" At least what I take away from this is that the spirit is not dead upon the death of the physical body, and this was expressed euphemistically on the cross when Jesus "gave up his spirit". The obvious purpose was to resolve and declare the termination of Jesus' physical life -- as a secondary proceeding, we see that Jesus' physicality is declared dead but not his spirit. The incarnation died, the Son did not die. If you're left with the lingering question of spiritual death too, I suppose that's a part of the whole -- Jesus defeated death, because He was singularly qualified and capable of it due to his sinlessness. I don't think I'm straying into some heresy I'm aware of by speculating that perhaps by the nature of His eternal and uncorrupted existence, He was unable to be "reaped" into the destruction of His soul in addition to His body when he departed the physical realm into the spiritual realm [described as Sheol/Hades in the text]. So upon resurrection, He brought life back into His former mortal coil. Thus physical death, the shedding of blood to redeem as a sacrifice, and then the resurrection to defeat death by defying its power over Him.. Apologies for the stream of consciousness! Hope this was in some way useful.
Tyler Smith thank you for the response, I understand your point of view. If it helps here is a link to what I believe and hopefully you can understand my dilemma a little better. www.pursuegod.org/hebrew-word-study-nefesh/
In the end we can clearly observe that Mr. Michael Brown is no longer so sure of himself. Watch how he is shaking his leg; that is a sure giveaway. Is it the broadness of the human heart that does not allow him to admit that maybe he could be wrong in his evil trinitarian view of Jesus?
Have you looked at the individual scriptures through a unitarian lense? Have you compared the methodology between the two? Have you compared the logic between the two? I spent weeks and months looking at the trinity. I prayed about it constantly, in fact I still pray for eyes to see the truth and to be brought to my knees if I am ignorant of the truth. I concluded with continual prayer, that there is nothing logical or reasonable about the trinity. It's a fallacious logical argument, and once logic and reasoning has left the faculties, you are open to any ridiculous interpretation because you are no longer bound by logic and reason. I honestly and truly believe with all my heart, if you are a trinitarian you have NOT done any due diligence or intellectually honest investigation in to the doctrine, nor have you compared the line of reasoning to both unitarian and trinitarian conclusion. The trinity is void of any logic, and trinitarians are okay with that. And that's the biggest problem.
@@TaxEvasi0n if you need to read "individual scriptures through a unitarian lense" in order to reach a unitarian view, then that alone should raise concerns over the doctrine itself.
@@priscillajervey8345 Can you pls explain to me why the description how God created the heavens and the earth and is eternal and never changes from Psalm 102,25-27 is quoted and applied to Jesus in Hebrews 1,10-12. And why God in Isaiah 44,24 and Job 9,8 said, He created heavens and earth alone? My explanation is that Father, Son and holy Spirit are one triune God that created the heaven and earth alone. Whats your explanation? *Psalm 102,25-27* *1 Hear my prayer, O LORD, and let my cry come unto thee.* [...] *25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.* *26 They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:* *27 But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.* *Hebrews 1,8-12* *8 But unto the Son he (God, the Father) saith,* [...] *10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:* *11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;* *12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.* *Hebrews 1,10* *And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:* *Isaiah 44,24* Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, *I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens ALONE; that spreadeth abroad the earth BY MYSELF;* *Job 9,8* *Which ALONE spreadeth out the heavens,* and *treadeth upon the waves of the sea.* *Matthew 14,25* And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, *walking on the sea.*
Elegant but unbiblical; he made too many self-contradictory statements. Maybe some understanding of the Greek would help him. Dr. Brown has exegetically explained scriptures in context. In fact; he had to repeatedly educate & correct Mr. Tuggy.
@@prayingpatriot8018 I agree with you. I would say that Tuggy’s strongest argument is the one about not finding worship of the Holy Spirit in the text. What do you think about that one? The one about not finding controversy about the Trinity in places like Acts is interesting too for sure, but it comes to mind the moment when Jesus said “I am” and the Jews picked up stones to stone Him. That seems to have been pretty controversial. Also, there’s some people that say Colossians was partly written to correct misconceptions about Jesus, and of course there’s a couple passages there that testify to His deity. The others are just wrong and based on assumptions, even though he says his procedure was free of them.
@@ndjibukabengele973 There is plenty of logic and inspiration coming from the scriptures. Yet certainly not from Tuggy. The problem is people who don't read the Bible in context, will never understand His Mighty Eternal Word.
"Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned-every one-to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all." ~ Is 53:4-10
Jay Cee help me understand how Jesus could sleep An be tempted which God can’t be ? Also Christ claims to be the same as the Father now this will get the Religious spirits all upset. Cross said we would do better work than him cry said if you see me you seen the Father. I say Christ is in us as we lay hands on people Christ lays hands on people so does Holy Spirit . Just as Father an Son are one spare we one with them also wher a Christian goes so does Holy Spirit
@Martin Solomon "That's why Jews don't convert to a contradictory faith" rofl.... Why was the Jewish temple destroyed in AD 70 again by the Romans? Lol Pagan Satanist.
Greetings, Loved Ones! John 14, verse 28: Christ said"...I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."! In John 20, verse 17, Christ said, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"! Read below! #2 12-19-2022!
Which part of Philippians do you not understand? Jesus who was in the nature of God, to the nature of a human servant. As a servant, would the Father not be greater than him? As a human servant, will the Father not be his God?
The spirit is the breath that gives life to the body Scholars know this When jesus said to father into your hands i commence my spirit Hes putting into his Gods hands to raise him back to life as putting thst spirit back into him Its not a separate person that lives on Immortality of the soul is not biblical
Wow Michael Brown smoked him 😮 His Jewish background gives him perspective that the other guy doesn’t have! So many quotes in the NT from the OT. Quotes about Yahweh applied to Jesus! We definitely know the NT authors believed Jesus is God!
Ajibola Katerine Hold on to your confidence "One GOD One Christ" and "C S" are here to decieve us with their cult ideas. They certainly don't have eyes to see. The WORD was GOD, John 1:1. JESUS is from old from ever lasting, Micah 5:2. Without father, without mother, without decent, having neither begining of days nor end of life. Heb.7:3 Isa. 6:1 is Jahovah on HIS Throne who is CHRIST in John: 12:41,42.
This centuries old debate started by Arius and Anthancious in the 4th Century will never end. Really good debate though. The NONE trinitarian view is more logical, simple, convincing, and scriptural in my opinion.
Exodus 3:14 - And God said to Moses, “I am Who I am” and He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ” John 8:58 - Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” John 10:40 - Jesus said, "I and the Father are One." Seems to me Jesus is calling Himself God. If you have any questions, concerns, or doubts, I suggest you take it up with Him.
Who does the Bible say the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is? This is the one who was speaking to Moses at the burning bush. Was it the Father or was it someone else? In the Exodus account the one speaking repeatedly says He is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. In Acts3:11-26 we are told who this God is? It isn’t Jesus, for Jesus is identified as the Servant of this God, the prophet this God told Moses he would send after him and the seed of Abraham through whom all the world would be blessed. This God, the only one ever identified as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob by the Jews, the God the Jews claim as their one Father, John 8, specifically verse 41. Notice they claim they have one Father, the same Father Jesus claims he has whom he calls his God. I find it interesting that Trinitarians use the accusations made by the Pharisees to claim Jesus is God when Jesus mocks them for every claim they make. Every time the Pharisees came around they were accusing him and testing him so they could claim he was blaspheming and kill him. Jesus always beat their tests and would test them like when when they asked him by what authority he is doing these things. Jesus responded by telling them he would answer their question if they could say if the message of John the Baptist was from man or from Heaven. They could not answer either way out of fear. Finally, for what reason was Jesus actually crucified? At his unfair trial, they had many coming and making false accusations so they could put him to death, but they miserably failed. Then the high priest asked, abjuring Jesus by the living God (their only Father) to say he was the Christ. Jesus answered yes and the high priest accused him of blasphemy. Why? Did Jesus claim he was God? No! In fact he said they would see the son of man sitting next to God. “But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest said to Him, “I adjure You by the living God, that You tell us whether You are the Christ, the Son of God.” Jesus *said to him, “You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”” Matthew 26:63-64 NASB1995 bible.com/bible/100/mat.26.64.NASB1995 Then they lied about Jesus to Pilate in Luke, saying he was teaching to not pay taxes and misleading the Jews. “Then the whole body of them got up and brought Him before Pilate. And they began to accuse Him, saying, “We found this man misleading our nation and forbidding to pay taxes to Caesar, and saying that He Himself is Christ, a King.” So Pilate asked Him, saying, “Are You the King of the Jews?” And He answered him and said, “It is as you say.” Then Pilate said to the chief priests and the crowds, “I find no guilt in this man.” But they kept on insisting, saying, “He stirs up the people, teaching all over Judea, starting from Galilee even as far as this place.”” Luke 23:1-5 NASB1995 bible.com/bible/100/luk.23.1-5.NASB1995 Even Pilate knew the religious leaders had nothing to charge him with. It says in Mark 16 that Pilate knew they had turned him over to him out of envy. When Pilate asked them what evil had he done, they didn’t answer but all they did was continue to shout “crucify him”. Even Judas realized Jesus was innocent of any crimes after he had betrayed him. As for Jesus saying he and the Father are one, he also prayed to the Father so that we could be in him, and he and the Father in us so that we also could be one as he and the Father is one. See John 17. Please read and learn who the Pharisees are and stop following there example of making false accusations about what Jesus is saying. I believe there are three in God the Father’s plan for our salvation. There is the only true God, the Father who is the only eternal, invisible, and immortal one. We have his begotten son who was taught everything from the Father, his God, does only what he sees God do, only has the authority given to him by his God, and died, being a man for the forgiveness of sins. The spirit of God who also does nothing on his own but only spoke and reminded the apostles of what Jesus spoke of which were the words that God the Father gave him to speak. Jesus is my lord and master, not because he is God,but because he is the promised one of God from the beginning, the one who God said would be the seed of the woman and crush satan’s head. I give praise and honor to him, for the same reason His God highly exalted him. It is because he loved righteousness and hated wickedness and “gave himself as a sacrifice for all mankind”. I am lead by the spirit of God so that I may walk in the same way Jesus walked, for Jesus did not walk perfectly on his own, he was only able to offer himself without blemish through the spirit whom he was anointed with at his baptism, just as we also receive the spirit when we are baptized. This is God’s plan of salvation for all men who believe His testimony about his son, that Jesus is the promised one the messiah. We, non-Jews, and Jews are heirs with Jesus because of the promise made to Abraham, that “in his seed”, all the world will be blessed. How about start focusing on God’s will for you and less on a creed set forth by men. Believe Jesus, the one you call your savior, when he claims before his death, after his death, and after his ascension to heaven, that the one true God, his Father and ours, is both his God and our God. Please also note in Acts 2, who, and what died on the cross for our sins. At the beginning of the church, the very first teaching was that the MAN, Jesus, attested to us by God, died on the cross, was raised from the dead, and seated at the right hand of his God who made Jesus both lord and Christ. This man is the descendant of David who God promised would sit on his throne. It is this man that is now sitting at the right hand of God and is the mediator between God and man. Jesus is a man only, he is not our God, but he is our savior because he is the promise of God. Ask yourself, if Paul believed Jesus was God, why did he repeatedly say, “Blessed be the God and Father of our lord Jesus Christ”? Is Paul delusional? If Jesus and the Father are both God, then Paul believes that God is the God of himself. Seriously! This is what trinitarians want us to believe. Notice the names also given to the three in scripture. We have God the Father, the son of God, and the spirit of God. The later two are of the first, the first is of nothing, for He is God, the only God. There is no grammatical construct that can change this fact. Finally, if Jesus was the one in the form of man speaking to his people in the Old Testament, why would he have to come and be born as a man? Why would he not just appear as he did then, since according to trinitarians those to whom he spoke to knew he was God. This also is confusing when in Philippians it says, he was made in the form of man and humbled himself to the point of death, when he had already been in the form of man in the Old Testament as trinitarians wish to claim.
Dr. Brown or anyone who believes in the trinity......please help me and answer the following question. When we get to heaven will we see three persons...will we see both God, the son and the Holy spirit or just one being on one thrown? Thank you.
@Tyler B #2 So there is a God race? When you're in the room, there will be god the father in one corner, god the son in another and god the holy spirit in a third. And we're mean to think Trinitarians are monotheistic. Yeah, right.
@@richardmorgan3938 My point is that Jesus and the father and the holyspirit are one because they are of the same being. I guess i thought you meant that they are seperate but equal.
@@shio_sakaki_the_legend392 What do you mean "they are of the same being"? I don't find that teaching anywhere in scripture. No, I think they are separate and unequal: There is one God, the Father. He is eternal. Jesus is the Son of God, and didn't exist until he was born, although he was part of God's plan from the beginning. He is not eternal, but has immortality now. He is still termed a man (1 Tim. 2:5) in his role as mediator. The Holy Spirit is the power of God. It's very simple.
Jesus came from heaven because God is literally His Father, He WILL be a son to me and I WILL be a Father to Him, it is the words of Christ that edify ALL others not the other way around and God does not have a God, but Jesus does, and the only way to have eternal life is to know His God is the ONLY TRUE GOD
This poor Dr. Tuggy guy was not prepared for this debate. He came prepared to debate modalism (Dr. Brown is not a modalist, so every assertion was a straw-man). It is clear from his presentation that he does not listen, either. He came to insult and to make snarky comments. Dr. Brown emphasized that the flesh was crucified while his spirit did not die. Tuggy was even corned on this! He agreed his spirit didn't die then when Dr. Brown made him answer so Jesus didn't die, he ran away and said ask me when its your turn to ask questions! Dr. Tuggy you need to have a response to how the spirit of Christ remained while his flesh dying at the same time. The reincarnation is the explanation for this!
@@floriangeyer1886 God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not the same person. However the Trinity is that they are one in being. Being and person are different. For example an object has being but is not personal.
@@matthewwinter7660 Here; is the doctrine of the Trinity: The Ousia personal-impersonal is God The Father is God homoousion The Son is God homoousion The Holy Spirit is God homoousion The Triunity is God homoousios Jesus fully God-ousia, fully man-ousia Jesus' human ousia has a God; the Father Jesus' God ousia does not have a Father Jesus God is omniscient, all knowing etc... Jesus man does not know certain, hungers, thirsts, sleeps, etc... "God (The Father/Trinity) created man in His own image, in the image of God (The Father/Trinity) He created him; male and female He created them" (God the Father/Trinity) "Behold, children are a gift of the LORD, The fruit of the womb is a reward" (LORD/The Trinity) "All of you are God's children because of your faith in Christ Jesus" (God the Father) "Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God (God the Father) "And I will be a father to you, And you shall be sons and daughters to Me, Says the Lord Almighty" (The Trinity) "For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God" (God the Holy Spirit) (God The Father) Show less
@@floriangeyer1886 Father , son and holly spirit is GOD John 14 : 28 My father greater than I has 2 meaning 1. Talk about real identity of nature GOD is greater than human nature of Lord Jesus 2. About size or object of GOD is example orange = peel + fruit + seed Fruit bigger than seed SUN = Physical + light + heat Physical of sun bigger than Light
Brown said the Son did NOT die - that is true in the trinitarian sense, because God can not die (if Jesus is God, he couldn’t die). However, exactly this exposes the trinity doctrine as false and unbiblical, because the Son factually did die. If Jesus didn’t die, as Brown testifies about the trinitarian belief, then there’s no forgiveness of sins.
@EOTJ APOLOGETICS "Do you really believe that death means cessation of existence????" Yes I do, and Scripture confirms it. Why do you subscribe to Platonic philosophy when it contradicts clear Scripture? Revelation 20:14, Psalm 1:6, Psalm 37:20, Psalm 92:7, Matthew 10:28b, John 3:16, Romans 6:23, Philippians 3:19, 2 Thessalonians 1:9, James 4:12a. To be clear, ALL will be raised to face judgment at the second coming of the Son of Man who is seated at the right hand of Power. Believing God the Father raised Jesus the Christ from the dead is the one and ONLY source of eternal life. You act as if you already have that eternal life, with or without the Messiah! Also by your immortal soul logic, there were three immortals crucified at Golgotha. The idea of the immortal soul was the first lie the devil told "Ye shall not surely die". But what did God say to Adam and Eve? "You shall surely die!" Was this just the body that died? It was not, as God was talking to ADAM who was according to 1 Cor 15:45, "a living soul". The very distinction that Adam became a "living" soul implies there is a soul that is "not living" a.k.a ceasing to exist.
EOTJ APOLOGETICS do not falsely accuse me. Brown said “the Son of God did not die”... then he tried to save his position by saying “the incarnate Jesus died”. This is borderline schizophrenia, or Brown has a fourth god in his pantheon. Jesus the Messiah IS the Son of God. Either he died or he didn’t. It is sad that we have to explain to you trinitarians that the dead are really dead.
The answers you get from trinis on this are all over the place. Trinis argue Jesus could not have been "a mere man" because a mere man can not die for sins, he therefore had to be more, he had to be God. That means God died. Some of the same trinis argue then that God did not die, but instead Jesus died in his human nature---which goes back to man dying.
The problem is what non-Trinitarians mean by "God died". They bring in a Jehovah's Witness view that they don't even believe in themselves when speaking of regular human beings. So what do you mean by death? If you mean death of the body, then yes, God died like a regular human being. If you mean Jehovah witness death, then that's a false teaching.
@@anissueofursincerity It's only "all over the place" if you think death means Jehovah Witness death. If, however, death means "I commit my spirit into your hands" (as Tuggy refused to admit), then you're left with a non-argument.
In the End- BOTH hold Great and Equal Points.. Arguing "Faith" ( which is a gift) will always End Confusing. . No matter what we will hear what we WANT TO HEAR and call whatever we Hear As "RIGHT"
Rick Huntling guess what you are 100% right.. there is only ONE TRUTH.. “depending” on where you go.. I’m not confused.. I’m well traveled and knowledgeable and understanding. Thank you
You show it well. Glad your so well traveled and knowledgeable and professing yourself to be so wise. Peace. Excuse me if I seem confused and not as confident as you two boys. Be safe . I' ve started Rom.1. Just finishing verses 18-28. I read for understanding.
Rick Huntling haha 😂 All I’m saying is People see things differently Across the board. What you know as 100% Truth someone else’s sees differently.. I agree with the Christian ✝️ btw... I’m just removing my “faith” hat 🧢 and seeing from more angles.. Shared with love
Behold the Lord God Will come and his reward is with Him- Isaiah 40:10 OT Behold, I come quickly and my reward is with Me-Jesus, Rev22:12 Jesus is plainly called The Lord God. Isaiah 40:10 is a prophecy about Christs second coming.
No, not really. It's just recognizing a fact that's all through the Bible. When men do miraculous things--it was God(the Father) who actually DID the things THROUGH the man. It's a representative principle. Go read Aaron and Moses speaking with Pharoah over and over in Exodus 7. Constantly God says he's the one doing things that Aaron physically does and no one equates Aaron with God Himself. This is all over the Bible---do you think when Jesus confronted Saul in Acts that the Christians were LITERALLY Jesus as Jesus said Saul was persecuting Him(Jesus)?(Acts 9:4) What about the people who were taken care of as if they were Jesus himself? Matthew 25:40 This same principle is now thrown out the window for some reason when Trinitarian believers read the prophecies sadly. God(the Father) uses MEN(in this case, his Messiah) to accomplish goals/prophecies/rule etc.. If you want one more example, go read about Cyrus in Isaiah 45 and look how the people praise Cyrus as God is in/with him.
@@droptozro okay forgive me. I was foolish enough not to read your whole message. I apologize. All I read was your denial. Your first statement saying "No not really" nonetheless. Brother have you read Colossians1:15-16, 2:9? The fulness of God dwelt in Christ. What do you believe that to mean
1 Corinthians 10:1-4 (UKJV) Moreover, brethren, I would not that all of you should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual food; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. You cannot say that Messiah did not pre-exist when the scriptures CLEARLY states the opposite!
I found Dr. Tuggy’s arguments pure sophistry. As a specialist in the philosophy of religion he simply played word games and failed to address specific biblical texts in the original language in a coherent biblical theology. He took complex ideas out of both historical and theological context. Dr. Brown used valid arguments from a biblical scholar’s perspective. Convincing if you’re tuned into that line of argumentation. A better debate would have had Dr. Tuggy vs William Lane Craig. Both philosophers of religion who would approach the topic from a similar line of argumentation but with different conclusions. Can someone arrange that debate?
A child without any type of Trinity contamination can explain and figure out that Jesus is not God, and that God is not Jesus; and that neither are each other. One does not need a PhD to figure it out. One just needs a clean heart and spirit.
*John chapter 1* 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and *the Word was God.* 2 The same was in the beginning with God. *3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.* [...] 10 He was in the world, and *the world was made by him,* and the world knew him not. *11 He came unto his own,* and his own received him not. [...] *14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,* (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. *Isaiah 9,6* For to us *a child is born,* to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, *and his name shall be called* Wonderful Counselor, *Mighty God,* Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. *Acts 7,59* And they stoned Stephen, *calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.* *2. Peter 1,1* Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who through the righteousness of *our God and Savior Jesus Christ* have received a faith as precious as ours: *Phil 2,5-7* 5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in *Christ Jesus,* *6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,* 7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. *John 20,28-29* 28 Thomas answered him, *“My Lord and my God!”* 29 Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” *1. John 5,20* We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being *in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.* *Colossians 2,9* For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, *1. Tim 3,16* And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: *God was manifest in the flesh,* justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. *Hebrew 1,8-12* *8 But unto the Son he (God, the Father) saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.* 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; *therefore God,* even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. *10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:* *11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;* *12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.* Not clear enough for you?
Worshipping = bowing down = respect
David was worshipped, king Saul was worshipped, Joseph was worshipped...search the word bow down...
worship as....?
David and Saul were worshipped as earthly kings.
Idols were worshipped as god.
Jesus was worshipped by his disciples as...?
[Simon Peter said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."]
the wise men worship Jesus as king of israel,thats they leave him immediately,if they think Jesus is a God they would ask that god-man protection,Jesus is worshipped as king@@superviola88
@@ManlyServantThomas called Jesus his lord and his God.
@@Jrce11 right if you read earlier in John it was the same Thomas who didn't see the father in Christ when Yeshua said if you have seen me you have seen the father. At that moment post resurrection Thomas saw His Lord Yeshua the son of God and his God Yahweh that Yeshua testified was with him, in him, who's word he was speaking, and who's works he was doing. God his father. Its coming full circle and reaching understanding and a place of believing because he is now sees the Lord resurrected
Did God the Father tell all his angels to worship them like he told them to worship his Son?
God the Father says in Hebrews 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
1:6 And again, when when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
God the Father saith, "Let all the angels of God worship him."
Glory to the triune God
That makes absolutely no sense. It is incomprehensible and not at all biblical.
Dr Brown what a privilege to hear a jew acknowledging the messiah
!!!
@basilhendricks ... really!? Did jews ever believed that God is a trinity?!😮😅
@AhmedManka-lf2fj read proverbs 30 v 4,God cannot have a Son if the Son is also not God
@@basilhendricks788 that means Jesus is Devine by nature of being begotten. God is not begotten, begotten by definition means created, surley the apostles weren't saying God was created. Only a roman would think God becomes man or the other way around.
Intellectual honesty is important in debates if people desire to advance arguments. Sometimes is not clear if the speaker is even listening or understanding the opposite views to refute them.
Dr. Brown, thanks for making it clearer using Scripture verses like John 1:1,14
Col. 2:9 "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form", Jesus as God and not just a glorified person.
Why woud Jesus even desire to grasp equality with God, since according to you he is God? John 1: 1 is the MOST misunderstood verse in scriptures and so misleading. I doubt that without Jn 1 :1 there would even be such a doctrine of the Trinity.
I think the word “Trinity” is insufficient to describe the nature of God. Having said that, the Bible makes it clear that Jesus Christ IS God. The evidence is exhaustive. One cannot deny the deity of Jesus Christ without ignoring, denying, or twisting scripture
Correct. God doesn't share His glory, even with His children as shown to us.
@@priscillajervey8345it would be convenient for you to not have John 1:1, wouldn't it? Fortunately for all of us, God said it so it's real. Just as Jesus saying "I Am" and calling Himself "THE ALPHA AND OMEGA" in Revelation. There's nothing else that can be said after that clear statement.
Well....if you say so!@@AndrewGiles688
Absolutely this debate is amazing,we love what we have learned and our many questions have been answered thankYou 🙏
Philippians 2: 5-7 (NKJV), "...Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men."
@Paul Mata Jesus referred to himself as “God’s Son” or “the Son of God.” (John 10:36; 11:4) Jesus never identified himself as Almighty God.
Moreover, Jesus prayed to God. (Matthew 26:39) And while teaching his followers how to pray, Jesus said: “Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.”-Matthew 6:9.
Here, you dropped this:
Philippians 2:9 (NASB) For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,
God, as in Yahweh, highly exalted Jesus.
Trinitarians always skip this verse! This is why Dr Tuggy said context is king!
God is the God of all flesh Jeremiah 32. So yes the son will always call the father God from the moment he entered in the flesh. But the father also calls the son God. Hebrews 1.
Easy peezy
@@lizzard13666 Jesus took a form of a servant..
@@arold4928 Yes! When he could have been King and taken power immediately, as per his temptation in the wilderness. Instead Jesus took the form of a servant.
I usually dont comment on stuff like this but I watch them all the time. No offense to Dr.Tuggy but to say that John 1:1-2 and then 14 is NOT talking about Jesus is a HUGE stretch! I was shocked by that one!
I think when we take into account Deut 18:18-19, God makes a clear distinction between His word and Jesus, them not being the same thing. The word is God. God puts His word into the prophet (Jesus) to speak on His behalf.
One that always baffles me is when Revelation 1:8 describes Jesus Christ as "Alpha and Omega" and "the Almighty". If one denies the deity of Christ, they MUST discount the plainness of the verse and simplicity to understand it with convoluted explanations and interpretations.
@@ricardoguzman5014Revelation 1:8 is not Christ's originally. He's speaking it as an agent as is stated in Revelation 1:1. Christ isn't speaking of himself until John mentions him in verse 13...
"Only the Father is God; in the New Testament the word God usually applies except for the times when it doesn't"...
Thanks for posting. Enjoy listening
Jesus said my father and my God
Eph 4-5 one Lord
Eph 4-6 one God
John 3-16
Father and son
God - raised him ( Jesus)
I'm going to the father
@@okhuibutala1640
Jesus is God and He became flesh (John 1,1-14). As He became flesh, the Father became His God (Ps 22,10). Because all flesh is submitted to God (Jer 32,27).
To deny him is plainly what the NT calls Anti-Christ.
Bowing down as a sign of respect in the Bible, was not only to God, but to men too, like to Boaz, David, Samuel, Joseph, Esau, king Saul and more...
Only difference is that Jesus was worshipped, these characters however weren't
The apostles would tell men to stand up when they bowed to them because they were only men.
@@tymon1928Jesus was never worshipped. You will find not a single doxology in the New Testament addressed to Jesus. You will notice that Paul only praises God the Father, never Jesus. “Worthy are you, O lamb” in Revelation does not count because it is not worship. Even in that book only the One seated on the throne is adored and worshiped as God. He alone says “I am the Alpha and Omega”. Read Rev 22 very carefully. It clearly isn’t Jesus speaking those words.
Who else agrees we really need the two wittiness to come clear some stuff up especially this
The two witnesses are not who we thought they were.
Must watch about the Two witnesses and revelation.
Check this out: ua-cam.com/video/qRJ-ncor52A/v-deo.html
Some people think the "2 witnesses" are the Israelites/Jews and Christians/Gentiles!
Jesus already came..the "faithful and true witness" and he showed us all who his God and Father is. All these deceiving lying hypocrites like Michael Brown and James White trying to say the trinity is the truth do not know the Father and they can not hear the words of Jesus
@Abraham Mani Thanks for sharing! Was Jesus saying he was the Temple?
@Abraham Mani how many times do you have to post this same thing on comments??
Normally, posting your comment once is the accepted mode. Please don't flood the thread like this again.
The Father is God - But Jesus Christ is His Son and our Lord - you cannot get to God unless you go through Jesus.........
the son of god created all things that was made.
@@joshjeggs 'In the beginning God/Elohim(Gods) created the heavens and the earth': God (Jehovah Jehovah Isaiah chapter 26 verse 4) Isaiah 45:11-22; Jesus/Word John chapter 1 verse 3, Hebrews chapter 1 verse 10: two men according to (Scripture) the law each has their own material body which is a soul and has a rhuach spirit within him John chapter 8 verses 17-18: Jesus, who had been the Word wearing a God-body Philippians chapter 2nd verse 6, created with his hands; God created Isaiah chapter 45 verses 11-12 with his hands John chapter 8 verses 17-18 one of the two witnesses about Jesus.
@@leonardhunt5677 WRONG
the word is the actual words of God ... not JEsus..
@King J-dub what do feeling have to do with this? No where in the old testament does it speak of a trinity or jesus being the son of God... the first 3 commandments say I am the LORD thy God.
No other gods before me.
No graven images or likenesses.
@@bournrich3353 The writer of Hebrews 1 is speaking of the Son who was.
All things that were made according to the Fathers will and at His command He made through Jesus.
As in all things its from the Father and through the Son.
But about the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”
10 He also says,
“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
11 They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
12 You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.”
13 To which of the angels did God ever say,
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet”
WOW! When Dr Tuggy spoke during his introduction it felt cold and calculated but when Dr. Brown spoke, it moved me to tears! To think that God Himself would come down and die for me, and not only that, to take upon Himself the brutal punishment I deserved is a love that is truly divine! Surely, no mere mortal could have walked in thought and in deed without sin and also take upon himself this monumental burden unless he be God! HallelluYAH!
I must caution you to NOT accept a doctrine because it feels better or because it moves you to tears. These are all very subjective things, and they are not a firm foundation upon which true Faith should be founded. God gave us the ability to reason, and we must use it when we worship Him. The truth is that the Holy Scriptures teach us that there is only one true God, Yhwh, and that the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are all called Yhwh, the only one true God. The Father sends the Son, and the Father and the Son send the Holy Ghost. The Son entered into His Creation in human flesh at a point in history, He lived a sinless human life, suffered, died, resurrected and ascended, and the Holy Ghost lives in and amongst God's people until Jesus,, the Son in human flesh, returns and He will judge us and restore all things.
Holy Scripture is God speaking to us, and it is sure and trustworthy. Human emotions are not!
@@PrenticeBoy1688 YAHushua is God. I don't decide by feelings, that was just an observation. The witness of scripture is overwhelming concerning the God head of YAH. There is the Spirit of Truth and the spirit of error. Tell me please your thoghts concerning the following verse: Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Messiah. (1Co 10:1-4)
@@yosefyahu4778 I think you should re-read my comment, or perhaps read all of it as it appears you didn't do that.
@@PrenticeBoy1688 Oh! My apologies! Amen to that!
@@yosefyahu4778 Thank you for your gracious and brotherly apology. You, and as you pointed out, Dr. Brown demonstrate how Christians are to behave; something I too often struggle to do.
It's important to take our opponents seriously and to read all of what they say to us, to hear them out completely. By doing so, we can more fairly and accurately address their error by the standard of the Holy Scriptures. Let the offence of the Gospel be the only cause of offence to the unbeliever.
The answer to the question @ 2:32:30 - Therefore, when He came into the world, He said: "Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME. (Heb 10:5) Also Messiah says: "Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. "No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I HAVE POWER TO LAY IT DOWN, and I HAVE POWER TO TAKE IT AGAIN. This command I have received from My Father." (Joh 10:17-18) Question: How did Yahushuah raise His own body while being dead?
Not just that he said also Jesus said somewhere in John that destroy this temple and in 3 days I will build it up again
Keep searching for the answer, see the passage of the temple in context based on what the evangelist believed also.
God raised Jesus from the dead by his Spirit.
Romans 8:11 "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."
@@iamdenisehiers6719 Test Paul as a true apostle.
@@brenosantana1458 Paul is not a true Apostle?
@ 51:11 Dr. Tuggy, the text plainly says that the Word became Flesh! The word also clearly says that Christ created all things! Does no one see the issue here in Dr. Tuggy refuting the plain reading and meaning of the text?
May be this is what u mean by plain reading: God the Son became flesh
Somebody please ask a trinitarian if they really believe they would have come up with the trinity on their own without somebody teaching them about it first.
Exactly
Imagine believing in a god never mentioned, described or even named in the scriptures!
So tragic to be so misled
Most people taught it never understand it and say they do out of fear
@J DV what do you mean, sorry?
ua-cam.com/video/eAvYmE2YYIU/v-deo.html
The Bible teaches it.
After reading the comments I honestly can't blame people for being discouraged from believing it's confusing.
After reading Bible it gets more cleared then comments, don't go further then Genesis.
@@hubertagamasu6283 so, you are comparing trying to understand the doctrine of the Trinity to trying to understand Quantum physics? I don't need to understand quantum physics to be saved. but yet, I can't be saved according to Dr. Brown without believing in the Trinity. and how can I believe in it if I don't comprehend it? I have been through a hundred hours of these debates and still no Trinitarian can help make sense of it. and believe me, I am trying.
Yes it certainly can be. I have struggled for a long time tying to derive at some clarity, but in the end I just couldn't excape the cleat words of God and Jesus, setting aside the opposing arguments. Jn 3"16 God Clearly stated he SENT his Son. On the Holy Mt. in the presence of John, Peter & James , God declared that Jesus was his son, the one he loved and approved, and told the three disciples to Listen to him [Jesus]. This is the same declaration Moses stated in the OT regarding a prophet like himself who was to come.. Numerous places in scriptures it states that Jesus is NOW seated at the right hand of God the Father. Theses verses are absolutely CLEART regardless of the so-called many trinirarian proof text. Even though they "appear" to carry weight of the deity of Jesus or a God-man, or God the son [no where in the Bible]. I think I will just go with what Jesus and God say regarding their identity. And save myself some headaches.
@@hubertagamasu6283quantum physics is not true! dude look up Austin Witsit. He’ll straighten up your cosmology real quick. And drop the Pharisee energy, it’s not all that convincing.
Clarifying to me.
Dr. Brown exposed that Dr.. Tuggy must believe in 2 gods, father & son or else we worship, a mere created being.
The Bible clearly reads Jesus is the alpha, the omega, the beginning and the end. Was there before all things were created, and all things were created through him. Jesus is the son is God. Jesus is God.
@ 45:09 Dr Tuggy states: "As the eminent scholar James Dunn says: There is no evidence that any new testament writer thought of Jesus as actually present in Israels past, neither as the angel of the LORD or as the LORD Himself" Either Dr Tuggy is totally blind because the new testament writers do without a doubt utilize old testament passages that speak of the LORD and apply them to Jesus or he is just outright lying!
Isaiah
For unto us a child is born unto us a son is given and the government shall be up on his shoulders and his name shall be called wonderful counselor, the mighty God the everlasting father, the prince of peace. Amen
Now tell me who Jesus is again.
Not God. Stop taking the lazy route of only employing the English of an original ancient Hebrew composition. It will get you nowhere with God. The epithets that are ascribed to the child born are not indicative of divinity. Also, is the Jesus “the father” now? Hm…Curious. It’s almost like you will pick and choose which epithets to take literally and which to spiritualize, since you apply this to Jesus. Was Jesus ever called “the father”? Nope. Why? Because he is called a spiritual brother in Hebrews and is implied to be so in Paul’s letter to the Galatians. You are out of your depth. Heed James’ warning: not everyone should become a teacher.
Dr. Brown CLEARLY won the debate..... But honestly, are any of us truly learning?? Are we actually taking notes and CHOOSING Wich side is correct, not bc it sounds good, but bbc is true..... ???
I clearly choose our God ! The Holy Trinity! Thank De. BROWN, for helping me and my family understand the beautiful trinity, and it's teachings tru out the WHOLE Bible! 💕
Yes,im trinitarian
clear to you, not to me.
@@Veritas-dq2hs why
@@christopheracosta8398 Because it's nonsense, pagan, breaks all rules of language, and most of all NOT biblical.
@@Thedisciplemike how did you come to that conclusion??😃
Start of presentation/debate 4:00 you're welcome
Wanna smell my fart??
You wanted likes. And only got 1.
Why? Because we can fast forward to it ourselves. But thanks anyway.
@@DjSostre7nah lots of comments like these always get lots of likes just not here that doesn’t mean they all don’t hush
This may help those wondering about the death of Messiah: Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, "Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body you have prepared for me; (Heb 10:5)
Yeshua already sitting at the right hand of GOD, says, "MY GOD" - as 4 times in Revelation 3: 12.
Rev 3: 12
The one who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of MY GOD and he will never again leave it. Upon him I will write the Name of MY GOD, and the name of the city of MY GOD God the new Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven from MY GOD, and My new Name.
If you send the same comment 3 times you are not sure
correct , the Father is the God of the flesh and blood he himself created and wants you to understand this , give glory to the substance , not the form , the spirit , not the flesh , the being , not his manifestation , the creator , not his creation ...however , the form is directly made from Gods very word and has the fulness of the Godhead within him , the only thing Jesus ever claimed to be in him is the Father , God himself , who is holy , who is a spirit , he is then of course a holy spirit and as philippians says in THE FORM of God , the form of something is not the substance of it .......................though its Gods form and not something on its own , which is why Jesus can be worshipped and has all the same titles the Father has etc. Jesus made it plain "i come in my Fathers name" . I don't know what the issue is here? MY GOD , yes , the flesh and blood is not God ... and? thats all Gods showing you by example , Jesus did everything for us by example , God humbled himself , you can fight every scripture you want , Jesus was very clear , if ye believe not I AM HE , ye shall die in your sins , i would advise you to learn what scripture hes quoting and who the IAM and HE that Jesus refers to is , because if you dont believe Jesus to be that being , which isaiah 9:6 knows he is , you're dying in your sins , because anything else is idolatry or denial of Jesus , who is the I AM HE? ...........................................it's the Father , this is why Jesus said before abraham was i AM , because Jesus is the word of God made flesh , Gods word was before abraham , and the bible says the word IS God , God manifest in the flesh timothy says ... better start studying the bible and stop listening to these wolves , they are leading you all to hell like Jesus said they would , and if this doctrines wrong , i bet you a lot of their other doctrine is wrong , stay away from these youtubers and churches , time to study the word for real and find out the truth , your souls on the line .
@onlymyself7225 I'm having alot of trouble reconciling between these two doctrines, please pray for me. I thought the "I AM" statement from Jesus was the end all be all. However, the "I AM" from exodus in the Greek septuagint is different from the "I AM" Jesus uses in John. Exodus is "ho Theos" (I believe) and in John it is "ego eimi".
@@aka.yehoshua ho theos is the greek translation for “the God” literally translated ho-the theos-god. in exodus God says to moses I am That I am, which does not mention the word ho or theos.
Jesus said "I AM the Almighty". He also said that he was on earth and in heaven at the same time.
Revelation 1:8
King James Version
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
John 3:13
King James Version
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Dr. Dale Tuggy seems very calm. He seems to not get angry or upset.
But on the other hand there seems to be some sort of condescension and frustration with his opponent in cross-examination. Sometimes calmness can come across as very smug and passive aggressive.
He’s calm because he knows he’s right.
ua-cam.com/video/eAvYmE2YYIU/v-deo.html
I really enjoyed this I'm actually an agnostic person just here to inform my self. I like both of them very intelligent individuals. In my personal opinion I think Dr. Tuggy sometimes takes a cynical stance disguised as calm. Like some atheist or cientist or physicists tend to do when talking about religion. I can understand why Dr. Brown gets a little frustrated. But in the end both of them managed to keep the debate civil and interesting.
Pat Riley...Dr Tuggy seems calm because his soul hs been seared, he is a tool of Satan, so of course what he lacks in the truth he can push in persona.....he reminds me of Bert Erhman - same spirit of deception
Tuggy needs deliverance and the gospel.
Why is it that anyone who isn't a Trinitarian is automatically labelled as a "deceiver" and "doesn't have the spirit of Jesus" in them and "lacks the holy ghost". Can't we just be intellectual?
We can’t just have intellectual acknowledgement on this matter because we are to “know God”, “grow in the knowledge of Christ”, have our minds renewed, our hearts changed via the Holy Spirit from hearts of stone to fleshy hearts having God’s Law written on them. James 2:19 explicitly tells us that even the demons KNOW God and shudder. What does that mean? Well that means having just bare facts and a knowledge of God and who He is is completely different than TRULY KNOWING, TRUSTING, having saving faith in God. So that when or once we are completely regenerated we should bear fruit that reflects who we are now on the inside from this true knowledge of God. Doctrine by itself is no proof of saving faith. They(demons, Antichrists) know the truth about God, who Christ is, and who the Spirit is, but they hate it. Thus zero fruit is produced by these sorts in fact it’s the absence of these things that show one’s standing with God.
Psalm 2:12 Kiss the son, lest he be angry and you perish. We need to quickly realise Jesus is God
@T41EF Because the Bible teaches that Jesus Is God with the Father and the Holy Ghost and God is one.
@@Solomonsaysno this is a lengthy reply but with little weight to it. This is what I mean by intellectual. When we just shout a verse and have our own opinion on its meaning, we lose track instantly. What I dislike most is the dismissal of unitarians as people who lack some sort of spirit. If one is to accept a spirit or Jesus as Lord and then claim they believe now before they did that as a prerequisite then we find ourselves in a self defeating argument. Heck I can guarantee many Christians are reading this and assuimg I'm passed by Satan to say this or lack some holy ghost. We need to discuss and be intellectual.
@@MrChemenger But that verse doesn't say he is god. It doesn't even insinuate it. We need to be careful of our own interpretations
John's Gospel makes it clear that the Logos never had a beginning. "In the beginning was the word.....The imperfect, indicative, active third person singular to be verb "Was, ἦν" uncontrovertibly is a continuous past tense. The prepositional phrase "In beginning Ἐν ἀρχῇ is locative. What John is saying, according words and the grammar, is that the word already was there prior to anything which had a beginning. Also note what John says in verse 3 of the same chapter, "All things came into existence through him and without him not one thing has come into existence, which has come into existence." Dr. Tuggy is saying that God the Father must have created the word, Jesus, but this is impossible because as VS one states that the word never had a beginning and that EVERYTHING which exist was created through him. If everything was created through him, could he have had a part in creating himself? Paul states the same (Col. 1) only he uses the definite article "All things" to make it crystal clear. He also borrowed this phrase from earlier Greek writings. The readers knew absolutely what John and Paul was saying. You can say you don't believe it, but you can't say that is not what it says.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Numbers 23 -19: God is not a man, God is not a human being; his decisions will not change.
Hosea 11. I am God and not a human.
@@ibrahimalharbi3358 God created everything by himself and he has the power to do anything...so you telling me that God cannot live among men as a man?
@@hdk8727 Man is made in God's image. The relationship between a father and son on earth can be used as an image to infer back to the relationship between Jesus and his father.
@@ibrahimalharbi3358 Not a man that he should lie.
Everyone forgets to finish the sentence. And as we see of the Messiah, there was no deceit in his mouth. ~Isaiah 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
"He had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth."
What's the confusion here? If God said he made man in his image; but when he comes in the image to reveal himself, now is a problem? 🕵🕵
The authors of the first books in the Bible imagined that God looked like a mighty man
Anthropomorphic
They could imagine nothing more
Later NT writers show God lIving in unapproachable light!
@Mark Metternich Gof did not say that God made man in his image
Early scripture writers assumed that God looked like a mighty King
Neigh even greater
That’s all they could imagine!
@Mark Metternich the problem is if it was HIS IMAGE why would it actually be him and not HIS IMAGE?
Numbers 23 19 YHWH tells us He is not a man or son of man.
He is invisible, He's a Spirit, He dwells in unapproachable light. No man has seen him. Reread Exodus, the people were terrified to even be in the presence of His glory!
Day 6, possibly speaking to/and about Adam and Eve. Since they are the only image we know that looks like us.
Creation account pattern, God states what He is going to do first and then how He does it after. Very easily could be talking to/about His creation Adam. It's the only time God speaks in plural form, even day 7, He rested, singular.
@jawnatutorow
Numbers 23:19 Never said God is not a man. You should always read the scripture the right way. God is making a statement here, Never take a phrase and leave the rest out.
Numbers 23:19 says,
God is not a man that he should lie;
Neither the son of man, that he should repent. Hath he said, and shall he not do it? Or hath he spoken, and shall not make it good?
When you pray, say: OUR FATHER, which art in Heaven, hallowed be Your Name...
The same Jesus who said pray to the father also said we should ask anything in his name, John 14:13-14
@(( Christian Man )) Mr " Christian man" this is something for you to think about, you will die in your sins unless you believe that I AM you will die in your sins, in the literal Greek it's I Am not I Am he, I wonder whether that I Am has ever echoed something to you
@@sethlubega3153 If you don't believe that Jesus is Christ, the Son of God you will die in your sins. If you believe that he is Christ, the Son of God you will have life through his name. See John 20:31
God made Jesus Lord and Christ
See Acts 2:36
@@iamdenisehiers6719 you mean the same acts that tells you God purchased the church with his own blood acts 20:28, the I AM the Lord Jesus uses in John 8:24 is the I AM God uses to describe himself in Deuteronomy 32: 39 it's I Am without nothing added to , the I AM where the Divine name YAHWEH is derived, mind you in John 1:1 they have already told you the word is God, yes the Lord Jesus is God one with the Father and holy Spirit
@@sethlubega3153 God was in Christ
......but the Father that dwelleth in me ,he doeth the works. See John 14:10
Also, Matthew 12:28
" But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you."
Also Acts 2:22,
"Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth a man approved by God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you......"
God was in Christ. Amen.
dr brown has dedicated his to studying the word of God thank God for teachers like these .
I respect Dr. Brown. Great teacher.
Dr brown is the absolute best
You don't say - but I beg to differ. He is all over the place - what confusion!!
@@priscillajervey1947 Well it is all over the place in the scriptures. But you all are the last days christians who spend a lot of time in the world and in worldliness but wants to understand this Triune nature of the living God. Father,Son, Holy Spirit. The word and eyewitness was given to our blessed appossles who had gone before us. And that's why when we study the bible we search through the their report of what they saw and what was given to them. Do here John he said they're three that bares record in heaven. And again he said in the beginning was the word. And the word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. He that was with God is his blessed SON. Thou shalt not suffer thy Holy One to see curruption. Father glorify me with the glory I had with you from the beginning. Oneness philosophy debunked. That why I quote only what my big brothers wrote because they were eye witness to these accounts. These modern socalled prophet, pastor, evangelist, appossles, in modern times will stand before the Lord for blasphemy and unbelief.
Dr Tuggy said many times about some versus; the "scholars says".
To me that sounds like the Roman Catholicism, they also says that whatever their "scholars said" .
He only appeals to scholars in cases where the trinitarian believer would be swayed by scholars. The final authority on theology for the unitarian is the scriptures, not 3rd and 4th century converted philosophers.
I found this debate to be very informative. I have accepted Jesus Christ as my messiah and I love him so much. He is my way to God and to his Kingdom. I think The Unitarian approach is aligned with the Torah and the Ten Commandments. I am humbled and confused and looking forward to eternal learning and education about God. I do feel confident that God is one. Maybe God’s word became flesh and that is also aligned with genesis chapter one. God says and it is created. Thank you so much for a very good meaningful debate. ❤❤❤😊😊😊🎉🎉🎉
That’s crazy
With respect to ”maybe God’s Word became flesh” doesn’t sound like you’re a believer in Christ because that’s who Christ is. So you’d have to believe it is so, not maybe so. Once you determine that, then you have to concede to Him being God, because the place where scripture says “The Word became flesh” also says “The Word was God”.
I thought myself believing in the trinity doctrine, but dr brown just convinced me the trinity doctrine is unscriptural.
Trinity is the truth
You don't read the Bible for your self do you ?? In the beginning God created the heavens and earth. Is this statement true??? Yes or no ???
So col ch 1: 1-20 says Christ created all things. You guys are in a dark place my guy.
@@keeptrying761 can God die?
@@SaveOurChildren7
Yes, if He becomes a man, He can experiance human death. But Gods divine nature cant die of course.
As it says, the Word of God became flesh and suffered in the flesh, as the man Jesus Christ
Dr. Tuggy is very confused,whenever he is cornered he resorts to saying it's Dr. Brown who is misinterpreting the verse.
Dr. Brown had the spirit of God with him,on the other hand, Dr. Tuggy is struggling to answer very simple questions.
I think Brown explained everything correctly. Tuggy on the hand, is teaching a false gospel.
1:34:32 its verses 11 to 13, Dr. Brown misread his notes or jotted it down wrong, but the prayer starts in verse 11.
The problem with Tuggy's argument is that he likes to argue from a philosophical view. Dr. Brown argued strictly from a Biblical perspective. You will not win a theological debate with philosophy- Colossians: 2:8 "See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ."
difference is,brown is commiting something called gish gallop,meanwhile tuggy is quoting all the verses essentially needed for this topic @@prayingpatriot8018
Michael Brown at 1:07:40 "I came jealous for a full revelation of the love of God, who demonstrates His great heart for us not by sending a glorified man to die for us, but by giving of His very self, His own Son, His own unique Son, coming into this world."
This sentence makes no sense to me. Brown says the Son of God is God's very self (and not in the sense of someone's child metaphorically being their "heart"). Brown is saying God's Son is God Himself. Why on earth would God use the phrase "Son" rather than simply "Myself"? It makes God seem like He's playing with words to confuse us. Also, the way Brown speaks makes it seem like God sending Himself is a great thing, but God sending the man Jesus (who IS God's Son) is some kind of lesser act to be looked down upon.
Overall great debate.
You need the Holy Spirit to make understand the scriptures brother. Dr Brown is full of the Holy Spirit and the other dude is not, He is just religious not spiritual.
@@ndjibukabengele973 Nah. There is nothing in the Bible to indicate that the Holy Spirit should contradict reason/logic/language.
God says son because God is not the flesh itself , he is the spirit manifest IN the flesh , as scripture says , God wants you to understand the difference between his form and his substance ... God is not a human being , God manifest in a human he created by making his word flesh , something we cant do , sure , but all in scripture . The Father , created the form , the form is a man , whats the most fitting title.... son , is it not? God is not the form , the man , he is the substance within it , who , created it , its all Gods , which is why it can be equal to God , known as God , its his visible image and express image of his person , his word , his name , i might have God in me now but im not all those things , there is a difference made between us as a man and Jesus as a man and of course the form and the substance .
philippians 2 will help you understand this more , and so God humbled himself it says and took on THE FORM of a servant , Jesus made claims only God can make plenty of times , he revealed himself plainly , before abraham was i am , destroy this temple in three days i will raise it up , im alpha and omega , if ye believe not i am he ye shall die in your sins , all of this says who he is , the jews were not confused by his claims , they simply didnt believe him , they said they wanna kill him because "being a man thou makest thyself God" ...clearly they knew Jesus was telling them hes the Father , and when philip was confused , he made it plain , you see me , you seen the father , i and my father are one , from henceforth ye know him and have seen him .
people can find fancy ways to explain all this , its plain and simple speech .
@@onlymyself7225 amen brother. helped me understand it more than most youtube preachers who desperately try to differentiate the father and son. meanwhile i always viewed it simply as u stated, the perfect manifestation of the lord god in the flesh. His word and essence made flesh. god did not leave heaven to dwell among us, his word was made into flesh and dwelt among us. His very own son whom he loves because in essence it is him, eternally coexistant with him, everything made through his word and spirit. that’s why jesus will send the spirit from the father as the mediator between man and god; the god man. He will send the spirit from the father. He will raise himself up. and he commands his spirit into his fathers hands. beautiful
Numbers 23:19 )God is Not a man nor is he a human so he does not change his mind!!.
That's why christ never lied and never changed his mind. For he did what he came for. Amen brother!!!
@@yonasfesseha4900 Jesus referred to himself as “God’s Son” or “the Son of God.” (John 10:36; 11:4) Jesus never identified himself as Almighty God.
Moreover, Jesus prayed to God. (Matthew 26:39) And while teaching his followers how to pray, Jesus said: “Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.”-Matthew 6:9
@@Azarable yeah he is the unique son of God. Because jesus never said I am God doesn't mean he isn't God. If I say I'm God doesn't make me a God just because I said it. And is it the only way to know if someone is God or not just by claiming his God? I mean who can have the attributes of God except God himself. Like jesus is the beginning and the end the alpha and omega the first and the last. He is the resurrection. He is the king of king and lord of lord. He is the good shepherd. He is the father of eternity. He is THY truth. He is Thy life. He created all things, he accepted worship, He existed before the world was. This are the attributes of God so who can have those attributes except God himself? So if jesus have those attributes what is he saying to us? Its obvious.
Yeah jesus prayed, jesus called the father his God, jesus got hungry, jesus got tired, jesus wasnt all knowing, jesus had all this human nature. Why because he was truly man and truly God the incarnation called the hypostatic union. This all thing u see is based on his human nature. Why did jesus prayed because he became a man. when he became a man why should he stop talking to the father? Prayer is a way of communicating with God. Why did jesus call the father his God because he bacame a man. When he became a man he's not gonna be a hard athiest is he? Why should he stop his relationship with the father? Why should he stop talking to the father? In Jeremiah it clearly states that God is the God of all flesh. So when the son became a man he worships the father in the flesh.
@@yonasfesseha4900 You said it yourself that Jesus (Yeshua) Christ never said he was God (Yahweh). You see?? You just admitted it.
@@yonasfesseha4900 Jesus (Yeshua) Christ made a clear distinction between him and his Father
Does the identity of God have to be “a very profound mystery”? It did not seem so to Jesus. In his prayer to his Father, Jesus (Yeshua) Christ made a clear distinction between him and his Father when he said: “This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus (Yeshua) Christ.” (John 17:3) If we believe Jesus and understand the plain teaching of the Bible, we will respect him as the divine Son of God that he is. We will also worship Jehovah as “the only true God.”
Jesus (Yeshua) Christ said that “the true worshipers will worship the Father with . . . truth.” (John 4:23) That truth has been recorded in the Bible. (John 17:17) Does the Bible teach that the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit are three persons in one God?
For one thing, the Bible does not mention the word “Trinity.” For another, Jesus (Yeshua) Christ never claimed to be equal to God (Yahweh). Instead, Jesus worshipped God (Yahweh). (Luke 22:41-44) A third line of evidence concerns Jesus’ relationship with his followers. Even after he was raised from the dead to the spirit realm, Jesus (Yeshua) called his followers “my brothers.” (Matthew 28:10) Were they brothers of Almighty God? Of course not! But through their faith in Christ-God’s preeminent Son-they too became sons of the one Father. (Galatians 3:26) Compare some additional scriptures with the following statement from the creed attributed to the Council of Nicaea.
This "debate" complete aside, there is one thing in those discussions never addressed, and that is that the bible differs from all pagan religions in the point of having one God, not more than the one God. Trinitarianism, polytheism, is of pagan roots and the bible proofs that over and over and that is never discussed.
Always a pleasure to hear Mr. Tuggy. Quick note, Jude talk about Jesus freeing his people in Egypt. Also, Jesus himself also talks about knowing Abraham in the gospels.
Really? Where in Scriptures did Jesus and Abraham meet? Did they talk with one another? Abraham had a revelation from God the Father of the coming Messiah. Is that so hard to comprehend. God sees things that are as though they have already happened. When scriptures speak of David"s and Abraham's seed , who do you suppose it is making reference? The Messiah Jesus.
@@priscillajervey8345 you’re joking right?
You think?? Ha!@@notavinav You think maybe Abraham and Jesus were buddies? Ha!
”And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; and he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, and said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:“
Genesis 18:1-3 KJV
Although the other 2 are later identified as angels in Genesis 19:1, some say the 3 are the Triune God coming down to earth to speak with Abraham.
”Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.“
John 8:58 KJV
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is One! Deut 6:4
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 1 Tim 2:5
Jesus said to her, "...'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'" John 20:17
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort. 2 Cor 1:3
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. Acts 3:13
But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 1 Cor 11:3
Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!" Luke 9:35
I myself have seen, and have testified that this is the Chosen One of God. John 1:34
Because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead." Eph 1:4
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, YOU WILL BE SAVED. Rom 10:9
God raised Jesus
Jesus he will raise himself
= Jesus is God
Colossians 2:15 (ESV)
He (Jesus) disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them...
Putting aside the landslide that was this debate it's very clear which one of these men is dead and which one is alive.
It's clear which one is using emotion to push a man made doctrine and which one believes scripture and knows how to read lol
@dutch1995 so true
Dr. Brown, if falling to our knees to worship the son will please the father, like you say, I'm terribly confused by this if they are not separate people.
What a waste of mr. tuggy “preparation”. Read Genesis 18, YHVH intertwines with a human...
@@josegordon6302 YHVH can appear as who ever he wants and to whom ever he wants. This does not mean that he is Jesus.
You're confused. People are human beings, God is divine being. ✨
@@shelley9583 says who?
Utter nonsense
@Night Owl God is divine but his words says that he will incarnate in to man. What happened with Isaiah 9:6?
One of the audience there asked a question to Micheal Brown (@ 2.02.02). The question was how come Jesus did not know the hour if he was God (God the Son). Brown suddenly sticked on man Jesus and said man Jesus did not know the hour. But in the verse Jesus said neither angels nor the "son" can know the hour. For that question, Brown chooses to focus on "man Jesus", but same Dr. Brown denied Son Jesus's death because he believes "Son" is divine God and cannot die, so "man Jesus" could die only. But to the new question he focused on "man Jesus", instead of "son" (according to him divine part of Jesus), however in the verse it is said, "son can not know the hour". In fact, Brown's theology is crushed because he says that "son Jesus" cannot die since" son Jesus" is God part of Jesus, on the other hand, Brown says "son Jesus" cannot know the hour because he is a man.... Confusion...
@Saint Belligerant Yes, it is sad. I was doing the same thing, ignoring the other thing since I was told and taught trinitarian idea. But there was always questions since it was not all things summed up. So I decided to study all the written words in the bible as it is.
Question: is Jesus a liar? (Please be careful how you answer, I do not want you to blaspheme).
@@achsevin6505 I guess the one who should answer to your question is not us, but trinitarian friends. To us Jesus never lied, he always said he is servant son of God, Messiah. He was one man who has been given authority and a mission by God. He said his a God, he said he has a God is the same God of us, both his and our Heavenly Father (John 17:3, 20:17).
Tuğba Erdal where in Scripture does it say He is "a god"?
@@achsevin6505 Nowhere. I am not the one who claim that Jesus is God. He is god as it is written in Psalms 82:6, sons of God called as "el" in hebrew "a god" in English, but not in literal meaning. I am not a trinitarian. I reject the idea of God's being more than one person or personality. I am not amodelist. I am not a Jehovah Witness. I am not a Mormon, I am not a Muslim. I just a Christian which means follower of Christ, I believe what he said, there is one only true God that is only Heavenly Father (John 17:3), and this Heavenly Father who is only treu God is both his and our God (John 20:17). I am a unitarian christian.
"One GOD...one Lord"(Adon) [ GOD appointed, granted, sent, resurrected, exalted Jesus]
Both titles were given to Jesus by Thomas
Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should strike the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fireceness and wrath of Almighty God.
19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
Incase anyone missed it, it's the wrath of Almighty God, and he is LORD. ~ The Word of God ~Jn 1:1
@@AndrewGiles688God means mighty one, not Yahweh. He's definitely our god in that he is our king and ruler but he's not the one true god, that being the father, a separate being.
When they delete your comments, instead of refuting them, you know your right. ~Jesus is God
Alright 38 minutes in, and you HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE the fact that dales intro was a lot of "cannot be, because" rather than simply using scripture to refute the trinitarian position. He spoke more than he used Gods word. And Browns opening, literally all he's USING is scripture to state his case.
Not to say Dale didn't use really good points. He did. But we didn't come here to hear dales words. But Gods.
You have to acknowledge these things.
yea, the machine-gun debate technique. It gives a great impression to the audience, while not addressing Tuggy's 6 first points.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. (Joh 1:1-3) LET ME REPEAT: NOTHING WAS MADE THAT WAS MADE! NOTHING! SO WHO EXISTED BEFORE ALL CREATION CAME TO BE? YAHUSHUAH HA MACHIACH!
Why the word is in capital w? Why the word is referred as him?
The word of God, the Logos. No need to assume that John meant Jesus existed as a conscious being before he was conceived.
@@Eclectifying Jesus didn't have part in the creation too, if you don't know.
Deut 18: 18 -19 YHWH clears up Jesus being the word misunderstanding. God put His word inside Jesus to speak on His behalf. Jesus is not the word literally. Genesis 1, God alone, singular, created everything through speaking His word.
Isaiah 44, 45 God alone created everything.
God didn't use Jesus to speak his word until he was born. Hebrews 1. If you say that Jesus is the Word and that he is in the old testament speaking for/as God, then you are saying scripture is wrong and your interpretation is right.
@@jawnatutorow Jesus does ALL the things that only God can do! He creates the world, fights Israel's battles, forgives sins, raises from the dead, gives sight to the blind, causes the lame to walk, destroys the antichrist, need I say more? Look, if a man has a son, is that son any less human than the father even though he is subject to the father? Messiah YAHushuah is of the Father, from the bosom of God the Father, he is NOT a created being. John 1:3 clearly states that NOTHING that was made was made apart from Him! The flesh, the living temple was created and formed within Miriam, this is why it is said: "A body you have prepared for me." (Hebrews 10:5) And also: "Destroy this temple and I WILL RAISE IT UP AFTER THREE DAYS." Here is more witness from the book of Hebrews: (Hebrews 1:1-3 UKJV) God, who at several times and in divers manners spoke in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Has in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he has appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word (o. rhema) of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high: Notice that a distinction is made between the prophets and God's beloved Son! I suggest you all pray and read the book of Hebrews. YAH bless.
Dale Tuggy argues that Jesus is not divine because Colossians 1, John 1:3 and 1 Corinthians 8:6 say all things were made ‘through’ Jesus and Dale Tuggy says that word means Jesus was an instrument and that the Father is the ultimate source and therefore the real God.
The Greek word in Colossians 1, John 1:3 and 1 Corinthians 8:6 which is translated as ‘through’ is: διά
This argument by Dale Tuggy can easily be shown to be nonsense and false by Romans 11:36 where it says all things are made ‘through’ (same Greek word: διά ) God the Father/Yahweh.
Therefore, according to Dale Tuggy, if he’s going to be consistent, the use of that exact same word ‘through/διά’ in Romans 11:36 must mean God the Father was an instrument used by someone else. This is nonsense.
The Greek word ‘διά’ is also sometimes translated simply as ‘by’.
This argument by Dale Tuggy either shows his ignorance of this, or he’s being dishonest by concealing this information which would destroy his argument. Neither of those is good.
Ooh, if only they had invited you to debate, too!😂
Modalist Protestant heretics like Dr. Brown are the reason why Tuggy exists. This clown embarrasses himself not knowing who are the persons who are the subjects in the verses he quoted & constantly blasphemes the Father YHVH. Despicable...
A great point, brother.
Both Brown & Tuggy are heretics, so stop being 1 sided. How about attacking Protestant Brown on his Modalist heresy & blasphemy against the Father or ignorance of Scripture?
@@Jrce11 John 17:3
Listen, even the Roman Centurion could understand.. keeping guard over Jesus, when they saw the earthquake and the things that were happening, became very frightened and said, “Truly this was the Son of God!” (Matt. 27:45-54).
Dr.Dale Tuggy: "Some scholars say"
Dr.Michael Brown: "The Scriptures say" He nailed it! Thank you,Dr.Brown I really admire your body of work!
YESHUA- "The Great I AM
See John 9 9 in the Greek and the passage that you referred in Greek.
@(( Christian Man )) Test Paul as a true apostle.
Joseph Smith and many other false prophets also say, "the scriptures say." You are simplifying Dr. Tuggy's postion to try and knock it down. That's a strawman argument. Dr. Tuggy referred both to scholars AND scripture as he gives a better overall context. Which is necessary part of being a good Bible student.
Tuggy is a heretic, and not too rational. He’s making a god in his own image.
AMEN! Keep spreading the Truth and the Good News!
Isaiah 9:6
“For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”
This verse and prophecy clearly speaks to The Trinity and our Saviour JESUS CHRIST! ✝️✡️
This debate is easy to win. Just ask Michael if God has a God above him. Which Michael will have to say no, there is no God above God. He will try to sly his way with working Jesus as God, but all you have to point out is Jesus calls the Father greater than himself, also the Father is his God, and lastly Jesus is always the second to the Father in heaven and on earth, yet God is not second to any. Case closed.
Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Jesus humbled himself and took on flesh, he became a humble servant, and as a humble servant why wouldn't he obey his Father who is also God, when the bible tells us to honour thy Father and thy Mother, why wouldn't Jesus do so also?
When he came, he came to not abolish the law, but to fulfill the law, in which he did in part by honouring his Father and Mother.
God is God of all flesh, and when Jesus who is God became flesh and dwelt among us, (1Timothy 3:16 God was manifest in the flesh) doesn't negate that fact.
@@bradbradbury8561 the form of God means his nature. How can an infinite being become less-than infinite? How can an All-powerful being become a powerless human that Depends on another power to achieve miracles? Why is god invisible? He isn’t! It’s just that we can’t even begin to fathom his form/nature. And these verses put an Infinite being into a tiny box. Jesus has deceived all believers.
@@TheBookOfLife7 An infinite being can do anything an infinite being wants to do, thus the term infinite. The minute you say he can't they become less than infinite.
Thus when it say in Philippians 2:8 He humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross, it is totally possible to humble himself, if he couldn't humble himself he would become less than infinite.
This it only possible if you are an infinite being, and for anyone to say it couldn't happen, doesn't believe in his infinity.
When his body died, his spirit didn't die, it went back to the Father. "Into thine hands I commit my spirit" Only the body died, not the spirit. Christ is much more that a body in which he took on flesh and dwelt among us.
If an all powerful being can be limited then he ceases the be all powerful. And as Christ has said when speaking of himself and of his bodily resurrection said "I will raise it up on the third day" ~ John 2:19
Only an all powerful infinite being could do such a thing, of which Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour is.
Jesus says this in John 11:25-26 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believe in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
"Whosoever liveth and believe in me shall never die" ~Jesus
Now if a mere mortal, a human being who believes in Christ shall never die, as Jesus says in verse 26, how much more possible is it for Christ who is God himself to do so also being that he's God?
Now that is an infinite all powerful God if ever there was one, not only to raise himself up after the death of his body, but to raise ours up also.
Only God could do such a thing, of which Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour is, amen.
@@bradbradbury8561 John 5:26 “The Father has life in himself, and HE has GRANTED that same life-giving power to his Son.”
Matthew 28:18-20 “Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been Given to me. Therefore, go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.”
Revelation 13:4-8 “People worshipped the dragon because HE had GIVEN authority to the beast, and they also worshipped the beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can wage war against it? The beast was GIVEN a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise it’s AUTHORITY for forty-two months (3.5 years) It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. It was Given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was GIVEN Authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast (Matthew 24:14 & Matthew 28:19) - all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.”
Daniel 7:8 “while I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully.”
Daniel 7:25 “He will speak against the Most High and oppress his people and try the change the set times AND the Laws. The Holy People will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time. (Revelation 13:5)
So do you actually know who Jesus is? Because I’m sure you do now.
why i see always the debaters that defend CHRIST, full of the SPIRIT speaking so fluid to the point that the debate even looks unfair...is like an adult debating a little child....
Because before accepting trinity, one must throw rationality out of the window and accept emotional feelings. I agree with you. I see that too. They are too emotional rather than talking in a scholarly way. But it's not their fault. Actually they can't rationally about trinity which is itself irrational concept. Even people gets hyped when they are drunk or on drugs. Christian debaters are like them.
The meek shall inherit the earth
@@One-rr8um I'm concerned that you may have exalted your human rationality above God and his Word. He is not to be made a slave to your understanding, but your understanding is to be made subject to Him.
God is not irrational and he's very plain about his own limitations and attributes throughout the Bible. At some point if he was 3 people then he would have brought it up.
@@dutch1995 The level of hubris it takes to assert what God would or wouldnt do is astounding.
Another thing Tuggy misses when he says there was no controversy related to Christ’s Deity. I disagree. Read Matt. 26:62-65. I along with most exegetes consider the “Son of Man” to be a reference to Dan. 7:14-14 which was understood by
His opponents as a claim to Deity. Since falsely claiming to be an exalted purely human messiah is not blasphemy, it’s evident they are charging Him with claiming, not this lesser Messianic claim, but by “Son of God” and referring to this passage with claiming the *greater* claim to be a Divine Messiah. Since they rejected His claims already, this was nothing short-in the eyes-to a blasphemous claim to Godhood. Hence they voted to condemn Him.
Love these two speakers so much!
No hate to my trinitarian friends, I use to be a trinitarian all my life. There’s a lot of research to do so if you all are up for dabbling in Greek, go for it!
It’s wonderful to know that when the Bible says our God is one, we can believe it.
All love I dont want to argue but what about John 8:58, revelation 2:23 Jesus literally says basically the same thing that God says in Jeremiah 17:10. John 16:25-31. If you see John 16;25-31 Jesus says he came from God and "again" is going back to God or with God and that relates to John 1:1.
From genesis to revelations the Trinity exists, God, Elohim, plural, let “us” make man in “our” image. Let us (plural) confuse there language gen 11:7 and the lord (single) confused there language gen 11:9.
Genesis 18:1-2
Now the Lord appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day. When he lifted up his eyes and looked, behold, three men were standing opposite him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them and bowed himself to the earth,
“Now the Lord appeared to him” and “When he lifted up his eyes and looked, behold, three men were standing opposite him” the Bible is lettered with the Trinity tell me if you want more verse I figured I’d just give you a few from genesis
@Mick Erikson so do I our lord our God is one
@Mick Erikson you just don’t understand the Trinity and you think I believe in three Gods, that’s wrong I bro lie with in one God just the way the Bible explains the Trinity. I gave you verses so exegete those verses don’t give me other verses if you can prove my verses wrong
@Mick Erikson like I said you can’t prove that biblically you have just been taught some heretical teaching, and you will die in your sins because of it.
Exodus 3:14 God says I am who I am
Jesus says in
John 8:58 before Abraham was “I am”
And in 8:24 he says if you do not believe I am he you will die in your sins.
Prove to me that he is not God using the Bible, don’t just yap
I wish dr. Tuggy would've used 1 chronicles 29:20 to support the kind of worship Jesus received...
And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the LORD your God. And all the congregation blessed the LORD God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the LORD, and the king.
@EOTJ APOLOGETICS please prove what u claimed by using any hermeneutical approach. U obviously dont understand near eastern culture or ethics. Bowing down or prostrating one self is an act of homage and reverence one gives to someone in a higher place. The west sees such action as a form of worship. And so western scholars confuse themselves and refuse to see Jesus getting the same type of reverence given to him. Instead would rather say he was being worshipped with the same religious intent as YHWH himself. Even when tempted in the wilderness, Jesus quoted that one should worship and serve God only. He never told his tempter to worship him. Even the demons believe God is one and they tremble. Trinitarians have no fear of God believing he is 3. Please study both Greek words and forms of worship and how its used in all contexts when everyone bows the knee to Jesus. After you've done a thorough study, come back to me and we will discuss it. David was revered because he was Gods Christ/Messiah (anointed one) and king. So is Jesus but with much higher authority... seated at Gods right hand. Jesus deserves praise and adoration to the glory of God the Father who made him and anointed him. Jesus entire ministry was aimed to bring peace between us and our Creator through himself alone. One mediator between God and man, the man Jesus Christ.
@@chinochris3181 very well said
@EOTJ APOLOGETICS I appreciate ur kind demeanor. As a Greek student, what exactly is proskuneo and how is it used in the context of rev 5? I posted the Hebrew equivalent to proskuneo by citing 1 Chronicle 29:20. Both subjects, whether God and king, or God and Lamb are both being bowed down to in proskuneo (worship).
Also all creation bows down to Jesus because he is "firstborn" (preeminent) over all creation. And he is worthy of praise and proskuneo. Nowhere in the text does it indicate that because Jesus was not categorized with the other creation that he himself is not created. You are inserting your theology into the plain reading of the text. Not very hermeneutical in your approach sir.
Please reexamine the 1 chronicles 29 passage and compare it to rev 5. There is virtually no difference in the manner "worship" is used in both contexts...
@@chinochris3181 "The word "proskuneo" means "to kiss the hand, bow down before, show obeisance, to worship." Since the Jehovah's Witnesses deny that Jesus is God, they maintain that He is not to be worshipped. So, how does the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society translate the word "proskuneo" in their Greek New Testament in reference to Jesus and other objects of adoration? The NWT nevertranslates the word into "worship" when it references Jesus. It does, however, render the word as "worship" regarding the devil, the dragon, the beast, the image, demons, idols, and an angel. Of course, they correctly translate it as "worship" when it deals with God.
Is the New World Translation biased against worshipping Jesus? It would surely seem so and especially since the NASB, NIV, KJV, NKJV, etc., all translate the word as "worship" in reference to Jesus."
AND
"First of all, 1 Chron. 29:20 obviously cannot mean that David was worshiped equally with God. This would be blasphemy. Therefore, it is best to translate the Hebrew word shachah as "pay homage" or "bow down" as is attested to by other translations.
"Then David said to all the assembly, "Now bless the Lord your God." And all the assembly blessed the Lord, the God of their fathers, and bowed low and did homage to the Lord and to the king," (NASB)."Then David said to the whole assembly, "Praise the LORD your God." So they all praised the LORD, the God of their fathers; they bowed low and fell prostrate before the LORD and the king," (NIV)."Then David said to all the assembly, "Now bless the Lord your God." So all the assembly blessed the Lord God of their fathers, and bowed their heads and prostrated themselves before the Lord and the king," (NKJV)."Then David said to all the assembly, "Bless the Lord your God." And all the assembly blessed the Lord, the God of their fathers, and bowed their heads and paid homage to the Lord and to the king," (ESV).
Is it legitimate to translate the verse this way? Yes it is because it is consistent with Hebrew dictionaries which tell us that the word shachah can mean worship, bow down, obeisance, reverence, fall down, crouch, prostrate oneself, (Enhanced Strong's Lexicon, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1995.) See the same thing stated in The Abridged Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew-English Lexicon of the Old Testament, Richard Whitaker, Editor, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997). This would easily demonstrate that David was not being worshiped. Instead, homage was being paid to him as was also being paid to God--though, of course, there is no confusion about who is God and who is not."
Moreover, when the Ancient Days is explicitly shown sharing his divinity with the "one like a son of man" (keep in mind that "like" indicates that the being isn't human: it usually signifies angels, but no angel would be given shared divinity with YHWH, and this is further clarified by Hebrews 1) the word used for "worship" is pelach, which is a different Hebrew word the one that appears in the scene with David. This means that the word pelach is in some way directly connected to divinity, unlike other words that could have been chosen.
The point being, mixing New Testament texts with Old Testament texts without discernment has many many problems to it.
@@blanktrigger8863 the problem is you are also taking bias just as JWs concerning shachah or proskuneo. U accuse JWs for changing the meaning of worship when it concerns Christ. But u have no problem when trinitarians change the meaning to suit worship to Christ.
Context always determines the use of the word. U said correctly that "only" God receives worship. There is only one God, YHWH (deut 6:4). So only God receives religious worship. if anyone else besides YHWH is receiving shachah/proskuneo a long with him, they are being shown reverence. The english translation of Hebrew and Greek words for worship causes confusion. KJV had no problem translating it into worship in 1 chronicles 29 because that's what it literally says.
Worship of God alone is a worship only given to our Creator. Bowing down to his anointed (Messiah) is our demonstration of giving him glory.
I think u should study a bit more on near eastern culture. Learn more about bowing customs in those days and why they were performed. God and His Christ both deserve to be kneeled to in reverence and awe. But God alone deserves his unique worship as Creator of all.
Dr. Brown won, Tuggy didn't have good attack points and quoted others and brought up creeds and less of scripture. His first presentation was interesting but didn't have much to stand on, he cherry picked church father's and says the Greek scripture was wrong just to fit his view.
Tuggy's arguments are as good as he is charismatic
El Gibborim is used in Eze 32:21 for a group of men. Every one of them is an El Gibbor. It is factually inaccurate for Dr Brown to assert El Gibbor as an exclusive title for Yahweh.
That is lie as it states "ḡib·bō·w·rîm ’ê·lê," while Isaiah 9:6 states "gib·bō·wr ’êl"
@@JuanLopez-rl7ry Ele/Eli is spelled the same way as Eli in Psalm22:1 in Hebrew. The root word is El. Just look at Biblehub H410. So it is not false just same word, but can be used as singular, plural or adjective.
May God the Father blessing, love and truth be with you, in Lord Jesus Christ Name, Amen!❤️
@@yeahwheey1Yeah your right only difference is one is singular and one is plural it's still the same basic word, like in english we have hat and hats, slightly different spelling still same basic word in meaning.
El gibbon is a ‘red herring ‘
The event being referred to in Isaiah 9 was the birth of a Davidic King and the words the Heavenly Council would use to greet his birth!
Some Christians have readdressed these words to Christ!
Incorrectly!
But they keep doing it!
@@johnbrien6313 LOL! David was buried for 275 years when Isaiah prophesy 9:6. After Solomon the kingdom was devided. A Davidic king would ruled all Isreal not just Judah. 60 years later you're in captivity and ruled by 4 beast empires then Jerusalem was made desolate for 1878 years. Dan. 9:24-27 happened with the last week still to play out. Your Temple stones still remain thrown down crying out "a plase for trumpeting" if I recall correctly.
JESUS is the only canidate being from the line of Jesse>David>Nathan on the seed of the woman side and the laws of inheritance on Joseph's line Jesse>David>Solomon. GOD is not a nan such as HE would lie. It all went down to the day and hour. HIS will be done.
Some Christians still do? Isa. 9:1-6 is quoted as being fulfilled in Mat. 4:11-16. I'm happy your not associating yourself with Christianity, we'll consider you a mission field.
Dr. Tuggy - thank you so much for this! Dr. Brown is throwing scriptures out, but is not sound in his arguments on a number of points. I am not sure Dr. Brown really even makes a good Trinitarian. Some of his arguing clearly is laced with Sabellianism - Most people are impressed with his throwing up a lot of scriptures and don't realize how unsound Brown actually is. If I were a Trinitarian, I would not depend on Brown for understanding of these things.
Sounds like your a blind sheep.
I disagree
Dr tuggy did terrible. But that’s mostly because scripture refutes his downgrading of Jesus and scripture.
I would urge you not to take away glory from Jesus.
@Dom the best yes. Also God incarnate
@Dom the best your calling the Bible blasphemous then.
And without controversy, great is the mystery of godliness, God was manifested in the flesh...1 Tim 3:16
Mistranslation even by your hero Michael Brown n James white boy White
@Corey: My bible doesn't say that in 1 Tim 3:16 [ depends which bible you are reading ]
@@david2358 kjv
@@david2358 what version are you reading?
The word ‘God ‘ was added in the eighth century
The text says ‘who’ was manifest in the flesh!
“He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.“
Revelation 19:13 NASB2020
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Debates are painful to watch sometimes. I think it would be cool to hear a debater say something like, "I understand how you could see that..." or "that makes sense but this is why I disagree..." Instead, it seems like no one will give an inch of logic to the other side.
Dr/ Brown couldn't agree with falseness.
What bothers me is, why did God allow these few passages that caused this doctrine to become so divisive? Why wasn't the Nician council discussed ? Imagine the winners murdering the losers! That speaks volumes of the evil of the winer's.
@@johngravinese2521 in those days there were some issues going on, people got kill just because they thought different. Just by saying "ok , but what about " dead.
@@johngravinese2521 hi there, just out of curiosity did you ever research the truth about what led up to the council in Nicea and what took place, who the members were ,etc?
Reason I ask is because I always hear people speak about this council but rarely does it seem they know anything about it. Its just proposed that the Trinity was made up etc. I used to believe this before I actually researched in depth. Just curious if you did as well.
@@johngravinese2521 Maybe God wanted us to look closer at this. His reasoning is beyond what we can comprehend. Ask God why these things happen, he may or may not answer. It is for us to seek his guidance, to be closer to God.
Dr Brown was more convincing using truth of scripture. Dr Tuggy struggled using man made theory which didn't make sense, because he knows scripture doesn't support his argument.
@Lori Dann Jesus says that the Father knows more than the Son does. If Jesus were part of Almighty God, however, he would know the same facts as his Father. So, then, the Son and the Father cannot be equal. Yet, some will say: ‘Jesus had two natures. Here he speaks as a man.’ But even if that were so, what about the holy spirit? If it is part of the same God as the Father, why does Jesus not say that it knows what the Father knows?
Truth of what scripture, all I hear a bunch of nonsense
So God died on the cross?
The trinity is man made
@Abraham Mani Yes it is very that Jesus is the only way to salvation but he is not God (Jehovah/Yahweh). He is his son. The Trinity is a false doctrine bro.
The mediator between God and man must also be both God and man! Jesus by His Blood and sacrifice bridges the gap!
What a silly meaningless statement.
1 Timothy 2:5
[5] For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and mankind, the Man Christ Jesus,
But for God it's good and acceptable Man jesus to be mediator🤷🏻♀️
If what you said is correct, that the mediator must be both God and man, why did Paul say specifically "the man"? Why did he not say "the God and man, Jeus Christ"? Surely he would have? Pretty important?
@glenfrazer753 I will ask you this! How is it possible that any human being is capable of not sinning ever not once in thought or in deed! Think about that for a moment! And to add another witness , read this: John 20:28 (WEBM) Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!"
@@yosefyahu4778 To answer your, question, he did not sin because of his perfect obedience. Difficult to imagine, I agree, but it's what God first sought from the first man, Adam. But he failed. The second Adam did not fail. A human who fulfilled the law by not sinning. The whole basis of the atonement is the law being fulfilled by a man. Now back to the question I asked you please. Why did Paul sepcifically say the mediator was "the man", and not help us understand he was both God and man by saying it during this key discussion?
Dr. Tuggy, you are not the one who separate between Jesus and God, THE WORD OF GOD SEPARATE THEM!
All I need to know is that Jesus Christ is LORD !! period
Knowledge is nothing to be afraid of.
@Saint Belligerant jude tells us the Jesus led Moses out of Egypt, in Exodus we read The LORD led Moses and his people out of Egypt.
@@mitchelladkins3502 1stCorinthians chapter 10 verse 4 shows Christ follows/doesn't lead Israel out of Egypt.
Exodus chapter 13 verse 21 'the LORD went before them in a pillar of a cloud by day and in a pillar of fire by night'.
@One God One Christ 1stCorinthians chapter 10 verse 4 Christ follows/doesn't lead Israel out of Egypt.
Exodus chapter 13 verse 21 'the LORD went before them in a pillar of a cloud by day and in a pillar of fire by night'.
One God one Christ
You call the WORD of GOD corupted, why? Because it doesn't fit your cult's fubar doctrine? So let us write our own bible, with our doctrins?
Who is on the throne in Isaiah 6:1?
Gen. 15:1, 4 in the Hebrew reads WORD YHWH came unto Abraham in a vision, WORD YHWH says.to him.
Genesis has all three individuals echad "unified" YHWH, WORD YHWH and MESSENGER YHWH.
Who is Melchizedek in Gen 14:18, Isa 9:6 and Heb. 7:1?
I have to be honest - Dr. Tuggy was surprisingly good and Dr. Brown was surprisingly bad. If you give points for throwing out scripture, then Brown wins. If you give points on what the scriptures are actually saying and what they mean - then Tuggy wins easily.
Did you even watch the debatee? Get a clue.
@@rickhuntling7338 I noticed this too! Carefully watch what happens at 1:35 ... Dr Brown has just made a serious claim, and tried to splash a handful of verses and move on without clarifying. Dr Tuggy then goes to 1 Thessalonians 3:11-13 and simply reads it out and shows that Dr Brown was seriously misinforming the audience!
@@lizzard13666 LOL it's his opening statement so you spill out your argument than build later. Is this your 1st debate? Tuggy actually mis quotes and changes the scripture to suite his make believe. Tuggy actually believes JESUS was begotten at birth on earth in flesh. Philp. 2:6-9 blew that lie out of the water.
You cult members make many gods in heaven with the FATHER one of many. It's blasphemous and pagan.
Brown inlightened the audience Tuggy was the devil's advocate.
.
@@rickhuntling7338 No it's not his opening statement, it's 1 hour and 35 minutes in. Dr Brown has already been making the point that supposedly "God AND Jesus" get referred to collectively with singular pronouns. Dr Tuggy actually reads out one of the passages surrounding the verse Dr Brown refers to in 1 Thess 3:13. When you read v12 as well, it makes it clear that the "he" in v13 is ONLY referring to Jesus (Lord).
I don't want to sound rude, but did you honestly rewatch and listen to the section I'm talking about? Your response indicates that you didn't engage with it, as your response is a little off topic!
I have no idea what that claim means. Perhaps you have some examples to help show that Dr. Brown threw out Scriptures with incorrect interpretation? But please make sure that doesn’t mean “incorrect” pre-assuming Unitarianism. (However, I’ll grant you a couple that-at least in English-don’t imply a singular pronoun for both. I see room for separation of Whom is being addressed in 1 Thess. 3:11-13 & 2 Thess. 2:16-17. Now maybe there’s something about the Greek I don’t understand-which Brown hints at-but until I do *I* wouldn’t rely on those for proof.)
First Opening Statement Starts at 4:00
1:37:39 Closing Statement
Thanks
God said let all angles worship him referring to the son but you shall worship God alone and God doesn’t share his glory with anyone so whenGod said thy throne oh God is forever speaking of the son. When Jesus said before Abraham was I am claiming to be equal To God. In Genesis the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters is that not God? When Thomas put his fingers in the holes in his hand he said my Lord and my God Jesus did not rebuke him for that why? Jesus says to Phillip if you’ve seen me you’ve seen the father what does that mean. Jesus also said I and the father are one
ua-cam.com/video/waNFaOv5rXk/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/waNFaOv5rXk/v-deo.html
Dr Brown is not only sound in biblical doctrinal approach but also being an intellectual.
Dr. Brown, I take off my Hat for you.
God bless you Dr. Michael Brown.
@Martin Solomon Jewish or Black Hebrew Israelite?
In Jesus Almighty Name AMEN😊
I can’t believe Michael said that he believed that Jesus didn’t die!
Jesus the fully man die but the Spirit did not die. Jesus is fully God and fully man
Ladislao Melgar so if his spirit didn’t die how is our spirit saved?
@@dhodzmelgar2933 fully man and fully god. Fully square yet fully circle. The cake is there but you ate it. Complete left yet completely right. Anything else?
I believe he was attempting to express that necessity and obviousness of the death of Jesus's flesh but not his supernatural expression of eternal existence. As a point of explanation:
Matt 10:28: "And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but are not able to kill the soul, but instead be afraid of the one who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
"
Matt 27:50: "And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice and gave up his spirit"
At least what I take away from this is that the spirit is not dead upon the death of the physical body, and this was expressed euphemistically on the cross when Jesus "gave up his spirit". The obvious purpose was to resolve and declare the termination of Jesus' physical life -- as a secondary proceeding, we see that Jesus' physicality is declared dead but not his spirit. The incarnation died, the Son did not die.
If you're left with the lingering question of spiritual death too, I suppose that's a part of the whole -- Jesus defeated death, because He was singularly qualified and capable of it due to his sinlessness. I don't think I'm straying into some heresy I'm aware of by speculating that perhaps by the nature of His eternal and uncorrupted existence, He was unable to be "reaped" into the destruction of His soul in addition to His body when he departed the physical realm into the spiritual realm [described as Sheol/Hades in the text]. So upon resurrection, He brought life back into His former mortal coil.
Thus physical death, the shedding of blood to redeem as a sacrifice, and then the resurrection to defeat death by defying its power over Him..
Apologies for the stream of consciousness! Hope this was in some way useful.
Tyler Smith thank you for the response, I understand your point of view. If it helps here is a link to what I believe and hopefully you can understand my dilemma a little better.
www.pursuegod.org/hebrew-word-study-nefesh/
In the end we can clearly observe that Mr. Michael Brown is no longer so sure of himself. Watch how he is shaking his leg; that is a sure giveaway. Is it the broadness of the human heart that does not allow him to admit that maybe he could be wrong in his evil trinitarian view of Jesus?
Scripture has a lot to say about the dangers of pride.
Incredible debate, learned a lot from both sides. I think the Trinity still stands from scripture but it was interesting.
Just curious, have you read the Bible all the way through from the beginning without commentary?
Do you also believe pigs fly??
Have you looked at the individual scriptures through a unitarian lense? Have you compared the methodology between the two? Have you compared the logic between the two?
I spent weeks and months looking at the trinity. I prayed about it constantly, in fact I still pray for eyes to see the truth and to be brought to my knees if I am ignorant of the truth.
I concluded with continual prayer, that there is nothing logical or reasonable about the trinity. It's a fallacious logical argument, and once logic and reasoning has left the faculties, you are open to any ridiculous interpretation because you are no longer bound by logic and reason.
I honestly and truly believe with all my heart, if you are a trinitarian you have NOT done any due diligence or intellectually honest investigation in to the doctrine, nor have you compared the line of reasoning to both unitarian and trinitarian conclusion.
The trinity is void of any logic, and trinitarians are okay with that. And that's the biggest problem.
@@TaxEvasi0n if you need to read "individual scriptures through a unitarian lense" in order to reach a unitarian view, then that alone should raise concerns over the doctrine itself.
@@priscillajervey8345
Can you pls explain to me why the description how God created the heavens and the earth and is eternal and never changes from Psalm 102,25-27 is quoted and applied to Jesus in Hebrews 1,10-12. And why God in Isaiah 44,24 and Job 9,8 said, He created heavens and earth alone?
My explanation is that Father, Son and holy Spirit are one triune God that created the heaven and earth alone.
Whats your explanation?
*Psalm 102,25-27*
*1 Hear my prayer, O LORD, and let my cry come unto thee.*
[...]
*25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.*
*26 They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:*
*27 But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.*
*Hebrews 1,8-12*
*8 But unto the Son he (God, the Father) saith,*
[...]
*10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:*
*11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;*
*12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.*
*Hebrews 1,10*
*And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:*
*Isaiah 44,24*
Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, *I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens ALONE; that spreadeth abroad the earth BY MYSELF;*
*Job 9,8*
*Which ALONE spreadeth out the heavens,* and *treadeth upon the waves of the sea.*
*Matthew 14,25*
And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, *walking on the sea.*
I found tuggys arguments elegant and clear Micheal brown did well too.
Elegant but unbiblical; he made too many self-contradictory statements. Maybe some understanding of the Greek would help him. Dr. Brown has exegetically explained scriptures in context. In fact; he had to repeatedly educate & correct Mr. Tuggy.
@@prayingpatriot8018 I agree with you. I would say that Tuggy’s strongest argument is the one about not finding worship of the Holy Spirit in the text. What do you think about that one?
The one about not finding controversy about the Trinity in places like Acts is interesting too for sure, but it comes to mind the moment when Jesus said “I am” and the Jews picked up stones to stone Him. That seems to have been pretty controversial. Also, there’s some people that say Colossians was partly written to correct misconceptions about Jesus, and of course there’s a couple passages there that testify to His deity.
The others are just wrong and based on assumptions, even though he says his procedure was free of them.
@@prayingpatriot8018
Yes too much logic and no inspiration coming from the scriptures, He is a kamikaze.
@@ndjibukabengele973 There is plenty of logic and inspiration coming from the scriptures. Yet certainly not from Tuggy. The problem is people who don't read the Bible in context, will never understand His Mighty Eternal Word.
@@prayingpatriot8018
Amen brother, I totally agree with you.
Before Abraham was I AM. John 8:48 -59
"Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned-every one-to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all." ~ Is 53:4-10
Jay Cee help me understand how Jesus could sleep An be tempted which God can’t be ? Also Christ claims to be the same as the Father now this will get the Religious spirits all upset. Cross said we would do better work than him cry said if you see me you seen the Father. I say Christ is in us as we lay hands on people Christ lays hands on people so does Holy Spirit . Just as Father an Son are one spare we one with them also wher a Christian goes so does Holy Spirit
@Martin Solomon
"That's why Jews don't convert to a contradictory faith" rofl....
Why was the Jewish temple destroyed in AD 70 again by the Romans? Lol
Pagan Satanist.
Lie!!!!
cheesus is dead !
@@philroe2363
Wrong!
Isaiah 53 is One of four servant songs in the book of Isaiah!
The Jews are the suffering servant of HaShem
If the debate wasn't over before, it ends at 1:25
God created the heavens and the earth by His Word with the power of the Spirit
Yes he certainly did.
Yeshua the Messiah DIED, and GOD raised Him!
Jesus and the Holy Spirit also raised Jesus from the dead. So says that bible.
Greetings, Loved Ones! John 14, verse 28: Christ said"...I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."! In John 20, verse 17, Christ said, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"! Read below! #2 12-19-2022!
@@hubertagamasu6283Then at what point Jesus became God? Since he was a man when he was in the world.
@@suleimanallison7680 Who said Jesus became God? Jessus is God become man. Read Philippians 2.
Which part of Philippians do you not understand? Jesus who was in the nature of God, to the nature of a human servant. As a servant, would the Father not be greater than him? As a human servant, will the Father not be his God?
See Our latest Letter for better understanding! @@hubertagamasu6283
Christ was sent by Father GOD and was part of Father GOD, being the Angel of GOD'S presence, in Exodus! See Our latest Letter 11/13/2023!
The spirit is the breath that gives life to the body
Scholars know this
When jesus said to father into your hands i commence my spirit
Hes putting into his Gods hands to raise him back to life as putting thst spirit back into him
Its not a separate person that lives on
Immortality of the soul is not biblical
Wow Michael Brown smoked him 😮
His Jewish background gives him perspective that the other guy doesn’t have!
So many quotes in the NT from the OT. Quotes about Yahweh applied to Jesus!
We definitely know the NT authors believed Jesus is God!
Roman 1:22 professing themselves to be wise,they became fools...
Denying Christ as God incarnation
Ajibola Katerine
Hold on to your confidence
"One GOD One Christ" and "C S" are here to decieve us with their cult ideas. They certainly don't have eyes to see.
The WORD was GOD, John 1:1.
JESUS is from old from ever lasting, Micah 5:2.
Without father, without mother, without decent, having neither begining of days nor end of life. Heb.7:3
Isa. 6:1 is Jahovah on HIS Throne who is CHRIST in John: 12:41,42.
You nailed it. They blind and follow a different Jesus
@@rickhuntling7338 amen 🙏🏻
This centuries old debate started by Arius and Anthancious in the 4th Century will never end. Really good debate though. The NONE trinitarian view is more logical, simple, convincing, and scriptural in my opinion.
Really?
Who is Abraham seeing in Genesis 18:1-6. 🤣
@@KyrieEleisonMaranatha Jesus explicitly say I am not God in the Bible easy
Islam is what you are looking for.
Islam is the creation of Satan himself.
@@HawkLad Islam is totally uncompelling though.
Exodus 3:14 - And God said to Moses, “I am Who I am” and He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ”
John 8:58 - Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
John 10:40 - Jesus said, "I and the Father are One."
Seems to me Jesus is calling Himself God. If you have any questions, concerns, or doubts, I suggest you take it up with Him.
Who does the Bible say the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is? This is the one who was speaking to Moses at the burning bush. Was it the Father or was it someone else? In the Exodus account the one speaking repeatedly says He is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. In Acts3:11-26 we are told who this God is? It isn’t Jesus, for Jesus is identified as the Servant of this God, the prophet this God told Moses he would send after him and the seed of Abraham through whom all the world would be blessed. This God, the only one ever identified as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob by the Jews, the God the Jews claim as their one Father, John 8, specifically verse 41. Notice they claim they have one Father, the same Father Jesus claims he has whom he calls his God. I find it interesting that Trinitarians use the accusations made by the Pharisees to claim Jesus is God when Jesus mocks them for every claim they make. Every time the Pharisees came around they were accusing him and testing him so they could claim he was blaspheming and kill him. Jesus always beat their tests and would test them like when when they asked him by what authority he is doing these things. Jesus responded by telling them he would answer their question if they could say if the message of John the Baptist was from man or from Heaven. They could not answer either way out of fear. Finally, for what reason was Jesus actually crucified? At his unfair trial, they had many coming and making false accusations so they could put him to death, but they miserably failed. Then the high priest asked, abjuring Jesus by the living God (their only Father) to say he was the Christ. Jesus answered yes and the high priest accused him of blasphemy. Why? Did Jesus claim he was God? No! In fact he said they would see the son of man sitting next to God.
“But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest said to Him, “I adjure You by the living God, that You tell us whether You are the Christ, the Son of God.” Jesus *said to him, “You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.””
Matthew 26:63-64 NASB1995
bible.com/bible/100/mat.26.64.NASB1995
Then they lied about Jesus to Pilate in Luke, saying he was teaching to not pay taxes and misleading the Jews.
“Then the whole body of them got up and brought Him before Pilate. And they began to accuse Him, saying, “We found this man misleading our nation and forbidding to pay taxes to Caesar, and saying that He Himself is Christ, a King.” So Pilate asked Him, saying, “Are You the King of the Jews?” And He answered him and said, “It is as you say.” Then Pilate said to the chief priests and the crowds, “I find no guilt in this man.” But they kept on insisting, saying, “He stirs up the people, teaching all over Judea, starting from Galilee even as far as this place.””
Luke 23:1-5 NASB1995
bible.com/bible/100/luk.23.1-5.NASB1995
Even Pilate knew the religious leaders had nothing to charge him with. It says in Mark 16 that Pilate knew they had turned him over to him out of envy. When Pilate asked them what evil had he done, they didn’t answer but all they did was continue to shout “crucify him”.
Even Judas realized Jesus was innocent of any crimes after he had betrayed him.
As for Jesus saying he and the Father are one, he also prayed to the Father so that we could be in him, and he and the Father in us so that we also could be one as he and the Father is one. See John 17.
Please read and learn who the Pharisees are and stop following there example of making false accusations about what Jesus is saying.
I believe there are three in God the Father’s plan for our salvation. There is the only true God, the Father who is the only eternal, invisible, and immortal one. We have his begotten son who was taught everything from the Father, his God, does only what he sees God do, only has the authority given to him by his God, and died, being a man for the forgiveness of sins. The spirit of God who also does nothing on his own but only spoke and reminded the apostles of what Jesus spoke of which were the words that God the Father gave him to speak.
Jesus is my lord and master, not because he is God,but because he is the promised one of God from the beginning, the one who God said would be the seed of the woman and crush satan’s head. I give praise and honor to him, for the same reason His God highly exalted him. It is because he loved righteousness and hated wickedness and “gave himself as a sacrifice for all mankind”. I am lead by the spirit of God so that I may walk in the same way Jesus walked, for Jesus did not walk perfectly on his own, he was only able to offer himself without blemish through the spirit whom he was anointed with at his baptism, just as we also receive the spirit when we are baptized.
This is God’s plan of salvation for all men who believe His testimony about his son, that Jesus is the promised one the messiah. We, non-Jews, and Jews are heirs with Jesus because of the promise made to Abraham, that “in his seed”, all the world will be blessed.
How about start focusing on God’s will for you and less on a creed set forth by men. Believe Jesus, the one you call your savior, when he claims before his death, after his death, and after his ascension to heaven, that the one true God, his Father and ours, is both his God and our God.
Please also note in Acts 2, who, and what died on the cross for our sins. At the beginning of the church, the very first teaching was that the MAN, Jesus, attested to us by God, died on the cross, was raised from the dead, and seated at the right hand of his God who made Jesus both lord and Christ. This man is the descendant of David who God promised would sit on his throne. It is this man that is now sitting at the right hand of God and is the mediator between God and man.
Jesus is a man only, he is not our God, but he is our savior because he is the promise of God.
Ask yourself, if Paul believed Jesus was God, why did he repeatedly say, “Blessed be the God and Father of our lord Jesus Christ”? Is Paul delusional? If Jesus and the Father are both God, then Paul believes that God is the God of himself. Seriously! This is what trinitarians want us to believe.
Notice the names also given to the three in scripture. We have God the Father, the son of God, and the spirit of God. The later two are of the first, the first is of nothing, for He is God, the only God. There is no grammatical construct that can change this fact.
Finally, if Jesus was the one in the form of man speaking to his people in the Old Testament, why would he have to come and be born as a man? Why would he not just appear as he did then, since according to trinitarians those to whom he spoke to knew he was God. This also is confusing when in Philippians it says, he was made in the form of man and humbled himself to the point of death, when he had already been in the form of man in the Old Testament as trinitarians wish to claim.
Dr. Brown or anyone who believes in the trinity......please help me and answer the following question. When we get to heaven will we see three persons...will we see both God, the son and the Holy spirit or just one being on one thrown? Thank you.
@Tyler B #2 So there is a God race? When you're in the room, there will be god the father in one corner, god the son in another and god the holy spirit in a third. And we're mean to think Trinitarians are monotheistic. Yeah, right.
@@richardmorgan3938 The new testament does say that Jesus will seat at the right hand of the father after he rises on the third day.
@@shio_sakaki_the_legend392 Correct. I am not sure what your point is though.
@@richardmorgan3938 My point is that Jesus and the father and the holyspirit are one because they are of the same being. I guess i thought you meant that they are seperate but equal.
@@shio_sakaki_the_legend392 What do you mean "they are of the same being"? I don't find that teaching anywhere in scripture. No, I think they are separate and unequal:
There is one God, the Father. He is eternal.
Jesus is the Son of God, and didn't exist until he was born, although he was part of God's plan from the beginning. He is not eternal, but has immortality now. He is still termed a man (1 Tim. 2:5) in his role as mediator.
The Holy Spirit is the power of God.
It's very simple.
Paul said: God was manifest in the flesh.
Jesus said: and I my Father are one.
Do not be deceived.
Drvo Života , Brother you are correct it’s oneness in unity not in essence
Can I ask what country you are from ?
Actually, Paul said "He" was manifest in the flesh. And the context is Christ.
Thank you Dr.Brown! I am currently trying to show my wife how the trinity is true and this is awesome testiment to that.
40 minutes and He Dr Brown already destroyed the debate hahahahahaah
Does Jesus know the hour? No. But you say he does?? Y’all really believe what you want to believe instead of listening to our master Jesus.
@@bstlybengali ok explain this passage then...what does jesus means?
@@bstlybengali Jesus said what he said while he was human on earth. You don't think he does now, after returning to Haven?
Jesus came from heaven because God is literally His Father, He WILL be a son to me and I WILL be a Father to Him, it is the words of Christ that edify ALL others not the other way around and God does not have a God, but Jesus does, and the only way to have eternal life is to know His God is the ONLY TRUE GOD
Time-stamp
1:20:50, 1:21:10 - Creation
1:21:48 - worship and exaltation
2:00:50 - the Memra and pre-existence
2:02:30 - omniscience
2:06:28, 2:07:07 - Matthew 21, Psalm 8, and worship
2:08:00 - fulfillment fallacy?
2:08:25 - Lord
2:13:00, 2:15:33 - Psalm 49 and ransom
2:16:10 - Jude 1:4
This poor Dr. Tuggy guy was not prepared for this debate.
He came prepared to debate modalism (Dr. Brown is not a modalist, so every assertion was a straw-man). It is clear from his presentation that he does not listen, either. He came to insult and to make snarky comments. Dr. Brown emphasized that the flesh was crucified while his spirit did not die. Tuggy was even corned on this! He agreed his spirit didn't die then when Dr. Brown made him answer so Jesus didn't die, he ran away and said ask me when its your turn to ask questions! Dr. Tuggy you need to have a response to how the spirit of Christ remained while his flesh dying at the same time. The reincarnation is the explanation for this!
Is there a decent debate between Biblical Unitarian & Modalism? (Specifically simultaneous Modalism,
Not sequential Modalism)
Mr Brown's explanation of the Trinity is a total mess.
Not at all if you remove your Unitarian presuppositions
Brown equivocates on the meaning of the word "God" it can mean different things at different times. HIS presuppositions are an incoherent mess.
@@floriangeyer1886 God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not the same person. However the Trinity is that they are one in being. Being and person are different. For example an object has being but is not personal.
@@matthewwinter7660
Here; is the doctrine of the Trinity:
The Ousia personal-impersonal is God
The Father is God homoousion
The Son is God homoousion
The Holy Spirit is God homoousion
The Triunity is God homoousios
Jesus fully God-ousia, fully man-ousia
Jesus' human ousia has a God; the Father
Jesus' God ousia does not have a Father
Jesus God is omniscient, all knowing etc...
Jesus man does not know certain, hungers, thirsts, sleeps, etc...
"God (The Father/Trinity) created man in His own image, in the image of God (The Father/Trinity) He created him; male and female He created them"
(God the Father/Trinity)
"Behold, children are a gift of the LORD, The fruit of the womb is a reward"
(LORD/The Trinity)
"All of you are God's children because of your faith in Christ Jesus"
(God the Father)
"Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God
(God the Father)
"And I will be a father to you, And you shall be sons and daughters to Me,
Says the Lord Almighty"
(The Trinity)
"For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God"
(God the Holy Spirit) (God The Father)
Show less
@@floriangeyer1886 Father , son and holly spirit is GOD
John 14 : 28
My father greater than I has 2 meaning
1. Talk about real identity of nature GOD is greater than human nature of Lord Jesus
2. About size or object of GOD is
example orange = peel + fruit + seed
Fruit bigger than seed
SUN = Physical + light + heat
Physical of sun bigger than Light
Brown said the Son did NOT die - that is true in the trinitarian sense, because God can not die (if Jesus is God, he couldn’t die).
However, exactly this exposes the trinity doctrine as false and unbiblical, because the Son factually did die.
If Jesus didn’t die, as Brown testifies about the trinitarian belief, then there’s no forgiveness of sins.
@EOTJ APOLOGETICS "Do you really believe that death means cessation of existence????" Yes I do, and Scripture confirms it. Why do you subscribe to Platonic philosophy when it contradicts clear Scripture? Revelation 20:14, Psalm 1:6, Psalm 37:20, Psalm 92:7, Matthew 10:28b, John 3:16, Romans 6:23, Philippians 3:19, 2 Thessalonians 1:9, James 4:12a.
To be clear, ALL will be raised to face judgment at the second coming of the Son of Man who is seated at the right hand of Power. Believing God the Father raised Jesus the Christ from the dead is the one and ONLY source of eternal life. You act as if you already have that eternal life, with or without the Messiah! Also by your immortal soul logic, there were three immortals crucified at Golgotha. The idea of the immortal soul was the first lie the devil told "Ye shall not surely die". But what did God say to Adam and Eve? "You shall surely die!" Was this just the body that died? It was not, as God was talking to ADAM who was according to 1 Cor 15:45, "a living soul". The very distinction that Adam became a "living" soul implies there is a soul that is "not living" a.k.a ceasing to exist.
EOTJ APOLOGETICS do not falsely accuse me. Brown said “the Son of God did not die”... then he tried to save his position by saying “the incarnate Jesus died”. This is borderline schizophrenia, or Brown has a fourth god in his pantheon.
Jesus the Messiah IS the Son of God. Either he died or he didn’t. It is sad that we have to explain to you trinitarians that the dead are really dead.
The answers you get from trinis on this are all over the place. Trinis argue Jesus could not have been "a mere man" because a mere man can not die for sins, he therefore had to be more, he had to be God. That means God died. Some of the same trinis argue then that God did not die, but instead Jesus died in his human nature---which goes back to man dying.
The problem is what non-Trinitarians mean by "God died". They bring in a Jehovah's Witness view that they don't even believe in themselves when speaking of regular human beings.
So what do you mean by death? If you mean death of the body, then yes, God died like a regular human being. If you mean Jehovah witness death, then that's a false teaching.
@@anissueofursincerity It's only "all over the place" if you think death means Jehovah Witness death. If, however, death means "I commit my spirit into your hands" (as Tuggy refused to admit), then you're left with a non-argument.
In the End- BOTH hold Great and Equal Points.. Arguing "Faith" ( which is a gift) will always End Confusing. .
No matter what we will hear what we WANT TO HEAR and call whatever we Hear As "RIGHT"
Ramelep
There is only one truth. Speak for yourself as confused not the rest of us.
Rick Huntling guess what you are 100% right.. there is only ONE TRUTH.. “depending” on where you go..
I’m not confused.. I’m well traveled and knowledgeable and understanding.
Thank you
You show it well. Glad your so well traveled and knowledgeable and professing yourself to be so wise. Peace. Excuse me if I seem confused and not as confident as you two boys. Be safe . I' ve started Rom.1. Just finishing verses 18-28. I read for understanding.
Rick Huntling haha 😂
All I’m saying is People see things differently Across the board.
What you know as 100% Truth someone else’s sees differently..
I agree with the Christian ✝️ btw... I’m just removing my “faith” hat 🧢 and seeing from more angles..
Shared with love
Behold the Lord God Will come and his reward is with Him- Isaiah 40:10 OT
Behold, I come quickly and my reward is with Me-Jesus, Rev22:12
Jesus is plainly called The Lord God. Isaiah 40:10 is a prophecy about Christs second coming.
No, not really. It's just recognizing a fact that's all through the Bible. When men do miraculous things--it was God(the Father) who actually DID the things THROUGH the man. It's a representative principle. Go read Aaron and Moses speaking with Pharoah over and over in Exodus 7. Constantly God says he's the one doing things that Aaron physically does and no one equates Aaron with God Himself. This is all over the Bible---do you think when Jesus confronted Saul in Acts that the Christians were LITERALLY Jesus as Jesus said Saul was persecuting Him(Jesus)?(Acts 9:4) What about the people who were taken care of as if they were Jesus himself? Matthew 25:40
This same principle is now thrown out the window for some reason when Trinitarian believers read the prophecies sadly. God(the Father) uses MEN(in this case, his Messiah) to accomplish goals/prophecies/rule etc.. If you want one more example, go read about Cyrus in Isaiah 45 and look how the people praise Cyrus as God is in/with him.
@@CatholicLogic7 don't be an idiot and think that Christians literally are Jesus then, sir. What a ridiculous response.
@@droptozro okay forgive me. I was foolish enough not to read your whole message. I apologize. All I read was your denial. Your first statement saying "No not really" nonetheless. Brother have you read Colossians1:15-16, 2:9? The fulness of God dwelt in Christ. What do you believe that to mean
@1 2 yes it is Jesus speaking. Ive done my own study personally on that and you my friend are a liar.
@@CatholicLogic7 , you are way off.
1 Corinthians 10:1-4 (UKJV) Moreover, brethren, I would not that all of you should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
And did all eat the same spiritual food;
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
You cannot say that Messiah did not pre-exist when the scriptures CLEARLY states the opposite!
I found Dr. Tuggy’s arguments pure sophistry. As a specialist in the philosophy of religion he simply played word games and failed to address specific biblical texts in the original language in a coherent biblical theology. He took complex ideas out of both historical and theological context. Dr. Brown used valid arguments from a biblical scholar’s perspective. Convincing if you’re tuned into that line of argumentation. A better debate would have had Dr. Tuggy vs William Lane Craig. Both philosophers of religion who would approach the topic from a similar line of argumentation but with different conclusions. Can someone arrange that debate?
A child without any type of Trinity contamination can explain and figure out that Jesus is not God, and that God is not Jesus; and that neither are each other.
One does not need a PhD to figure it out. One just needs a clean heart and spirit.
*John chapter 1*
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and *the Word was God.*
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
*3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.*
[...]
10 He was in the world, and *the world was made by him,* and the world knew him not.
*11 He came unto his own,* and his own received him not.
[...]
*14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,* (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
*Isaiah 9,6*
For to us *a child is born,* to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, *and his name shall be called* Wonderful Counselor, *Mighty God,* Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
*Acts 7,59*
And they stoned Stephen, *calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.*
*2. Peter 1,1*
Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who through the righteousness of *our God and Savior Jesus Christ* have received a faith as precious as ours:
*Phil 2,5-7*
5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in *Christ Jesus,*
*6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,*
7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
*John 20,28-29*
28 Thomas answered him, *“My Lord and my God!”*
29 Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
*1. John 5,20*
We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being *in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.*
*Colossians 2,9*
For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
*1. Tim 3,16*
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: *God was manifest in the flesh,* justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
*Hebrew 1,8-12*
*8 But unto the Son he (God, the Father) saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.*
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; *therefore God,* even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
*10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:*
*11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;*
*12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.*
Not clear enough for you?