I'm glad I stumbled on this video. Thank you, youtube. I played survival a bit too back in the day. Going to jump back into WoW classic with this new Season of Discovery on release. I don't know if you're still playing, but you might be interested in the changes coming up for survival hunters (and other specs/classes too). Everyone is hyped for melee hunter but you certainly don't need to spec that way. Ranged survival is awesome fun too and you can get explosive shot and ranged traps in combat in classic now!
I always played BM in classic. I decided to look into vanilla survival because I wanted something different. Looking at the vanilla talents, it's seems to me that it is intended to be a melee/trap build. Range was intended to be used for pulling mobs into your trap, then attacking in melee. In Vanilla, traps can only be laid out of combat. Immolation trap is on a 15 sec cooldown, so it was intended to be part of a single target opener. It does single target dmg. So for a single target, you lay down immolation trap, then serpent sting a mob to pull it to you. The mob triggers the the trap and starts taking burn dmg. Then you and your pet finish it off in melee. I think that was the rotation blizz intended for survival in Vanilla. I tried it while questing and it actually seemed effective in regards to taking down single target mobs, but it's definitely different and more involved than the other specs because it requires you to lay down a immolation trap before pulling, which many players would find that to be tedious. So, it's immolation trap(explosive trap for multiple mobs), pull with serpent sting, mob runs towards you, triggers trap, then finish with raptor strike, along with your pet attacking. The pet stays beside you the whole time.
@@CheekyHaggis I always like an owl, bat or carrion for the screech ability. It's an AoE debuff that reduces mobs attack power. It's been a while since I played it, but if I'm playing a melee style survival, I think I kind of focused on gearing him like an enhancement shaman, some str, agi, and stam. If I'm not mistaken, I don't think agility increases melee attack power on a hunter in vanilla.
@@robertb67 Okok seems like screech is the most sought after ability when asking ppl. I heard Agi is actually the same melee AP as STR in HC Classic atleast, so strictly better if that's the case. Thx for replying
There is nothing wrong about going full out melee as a hunter, your not doing it wrong, you're only doing it different. That's the beauty about Classic talent tree.
@@Oabize honestly who cares about raids? unless you enjoy doing that type of pve, raiding is simply spending hours wiping on bosses just to earn a piece of gear and then raidlog for the week. I of course, have nothing against you if that's what you prefer, but to me raiding is kind of overrated, especially because everyone is limited to a single spec and rotation, that's not fun.
@@uz7699 thats because content is 15 y old. Nobody raid this content for fun anymore hence doing it meta way to save time. Nobody gonna be fine with spending X more hours nowadays because raid roster consists of prot palas, melee hunters etc. Even if ure in a guild that allows it as standard practice (going spell DMG hunter once because you have a mood for trolling and officers allow that in MC when u're already in naxx is not really raiding) be mindful that someone is pulling your weight for you to have fun
i play deep survival, but i utilize my melee on its CD, arcane shots and stings weaving inbetween raptor strike cooldowns. Wyv sting into Aimed shot etc
Yes but you also aren’t giving your party 100AP anymore :/ if your guild has a Druid tank in the raid comp and you get to be the group one hunter with Trueshot. You will also benefit from 3% more crit from the feral Druid in group one. I would imagine being Marksman with full tier three and feral buff, is just as good as Lightning Reflexes SV. Not individually but for your overall party. Not to mention the benefit of giving your tanks 100ap=the rest of the raid being able to do more damage and not take aggro.
I disagree with your assessment that Survival is MEANT to be played as a ranged spec. The Survival tree has talents which; 1. Increase parry (only useful in melee as ranged attacks can't be parried). 2. Increase the crit chance of Raptor Strike and Mongoose Strike (both melee attacks). 3. Increase your health. Now, this one is definitely helpful whether you are ranged or melee, but it can be argued that this talent, along with the increased parry one, and the deterrence talent (see below), serv to make a survival hunter more "tanky" in melee. 4. Deterrence, which increases dodge and parry (only viable vs. melee attacks, since ranged attacks can't be dodged or parried). 5. One of the top talents in the survival tree is a very powerful melee attack (Counter Attack). 6. Hunters get mail armor. Why? Druids don't get it. Casters don't get armor upgrades at 40. Only other classes that get armor upgrades are melee classes, or at least, classes with a strong melee spec option (ala' Shaman). 7. A decent argument can even be made that all of the trap enhancement talents - which make it harder for a target to resist, or increases the duration they will be trapped by - are useful in melee, as they make it harder for mobs (or players), especially casters, to run away from you. Now, is this what the original devs intended? Who knows, but you can't say it doesn't work that way. Survival was pretty obviously - at least to me - meant to be played as a hybrid melee/ranged spec. Just because you CAN play survival as a ranged spec, doesn't mean it was MEANT to be played that way (it clearly wasn't).
Raptor Strike with a slow 2-hander will never not be satisfying to hit clothies with when they try to deadzone you. In 49s i'm doing something like 600-700 crits with it. More with Blood Fury active. If you want to have more fun in PvP, go survival/marks hybrid with scatter.
because u an macro 3 hunters mele ability into 1 keybind for insane burst...you can combine range and melee for insane burst. they have good dodge and parry. talented aspect of the monkey gives u like 13% dodge total. at max lvl u have 35+% dodge 20% parry... u ahve raptor strike for bonus dmg...u have moongose strike that proc when u dodge and u have counterattack that proc when u parry...they have 5s cd and moongose and counter are instant....tauren hunter for example...u can for wait dodge and aprry proc or u can activate deterence...get booth proc...war stomp, 2 isnta burst abilty, raptor, wingclips...the potential...add in pet, procs...
I've been playing survival hunter since MoP and I was curious to see what it was like in vanilla. I think I can safely say it was the absolute worst in Legion. I remember pulling off 6 stacks of mongoose bite and then using fury of the eagle all the time. I don't mind stack building, but having that super short window for fury of the eagle was lame. It wasn't even that rewarding. Not only that, but it completely lost its identity. "A rugged tracker who uses animal venom and explosives as deadly weapons." Legion survival had 0 venom based attacks. You were just the spear guy who threw a grenade here and there. At least later they gave us serpent sting back.
You say that you want part of the aggro so you don't have growl on auto, with this philosophy in mind, what pet would you prefer? What stats/abilities do you look for in a pet?
I'm trying survival out I'm playing on a pvp server so everyone comes at me and figures my deadzone will save them then POW! I smoke them with my raptor strike/wing clip and move away and kite them to death Works really well Taken down a few people 3 levels higher than me that saw their chance to kill me and took it only to end up dying I only put 21 points into it so I can get counterattack Just reached level 30 so now I'll start putting my points into BM Makes sense to how I play and what talents I want
You are wrong about survival never been a melee spec. What people don't know is that the intention with survival at release whas a melee hunter. And the talents are prof of that. The last talent in survival whas a melee attack called Lacerate. When it whas so bad in damage they reworked a lot of the talents like taking Lacerate out, the 5% melee hit talent away, 5% melee talent out, the raptorstrike -1sec cd out. The problem whas blizzard being chicken not sticking with melee and buffing but reworking. But survival have always been a melee spec at hearth
I'm still SoDcore for my melee hunter spec. It's a fun spec to play. I've been told just switch to survival spec in classic. It's the same thing as an actual hunter melee spec. No it isn't. I AoE with explosive trap and hit em with Carve. With point blank ranged kill shots in between CDs. And my dodge is about a 1in 3 chance of procing my mongoose. While my bird uses screech. True melee hunters don't clip and range out. We obliterate everything in our forward arc. And have a hoot doing it :)
I try going to SV hunter in PvP.. just wow and more fun in classic .. I kill mage as same rank with melle only cuz im in dead zone can't hit with range.. The most fun in SV i think if vs any melle
Original survival was focused on dodge, improved melee abilities and control with WS. Now telling someone you should play they way you play is wrong. As SV hunter you can easily focus two mobs at the same time. One can take pet while you’re tanking other. That was the most efficient way to lvl. The reason it didn’t see play in raids it’s because dodge mechanics. In order to use mongoose you need to dodge and as hunter you are NOT supposed to be main target. If it had focus from start and mongoose bite just regular CD it would be much better
It's crazy that this video got around 200:100 like to dislike ratio just because you are saying you like certain spec. Classic andies are truly something else😅
tbcdb.com/talents/index.html?en&hunter&05032001425210052120000000000000000 insane mele burst u can macro raptor strike, moongose bite and counterattack...you ahve insane stamina, dodge and parry...moongose bite go well with aspect of the monkey
@@eclipse369. tbcdb.com/talents/index.html?en&hunter&05032001425211040100000000000000000000000030205303103022 posted wrong link opsie... something like this
@@robertomcgee5372 yeah so u can be a threat even in close range. even tho dwarf with stoneform would be nice so u can coutner rogue slows... or mybe surefooted talent...but also I was wrong u can only macro raptor+ mongoose..u need to put counter on another keybind tho lol. but ye melee hunter seems juicy in TBC. also tauren might be good for war stomp+ freeze combo and because tauren have bonus hp...so u gain like 20+% mroe hp from tauren racal + hunter talents..than u take spirit bond so ur generate a lot of hp...
...MM is boring? In Pve it plays exactly the same. The only defining PVP talents are trap related and deterrance which can obtained by MM. Don't get me wrong, when I pvp I go SV, but I raid MM. We are hunters, its not like the gold lost switching specs twice a week is a hardship.
Mm is 100% boring. It’s not engaging at all for me. Retail it’s fun due to the zero range being removed. Waste of gold too lol. I just stay survival unless I wanna play with BM once a moon
I'm glad I stumbled on this video. Thank you, youtube. I played survival a bit too back in the day. Going to jump back into WoW classic with this new Season of Discovery on release. I don't know if you're still playing, but you might be interested in the changes coming up for survival hunters (and other specs/classes too). Everyone is hyped for melee hunter but you certainly don't need to spec that way. Ranged survival is awesome fun too and you can get explosive shot and ranged traps in combat in classic now!
I still play! SoD gonna be fire my man
I always played BM in classic. I decided to look into vanilla survival because I wanted something different. Looking at the vanilla talents, it's seems to me that it is intended to be a melee/trap build. Range was intended to be used for pulling mobs into your trap, then attacking in melee. In Vanilla, traps can only be laid out of combat. Immolation trap is on a 15 sec cooldown, so it was intended to be part of a single target opener. It does single target dmg. So for a single target, you lay down immolation trap, then serpent sting a mob to pull it to you. The mob triggers the the trap and starts taking burn dmg. Then you and your pet finish it off in melee. I think that was the rotation blizz intended for survival in Vanilla.
I tried it while questing and it actually seemed effective in regards to taking down single target mobs, but it's definitely different and more involved than the other specs because it requires you to lay down a immolation trap before pulling, which many players would find that to be tedious. So, it's immolation trap(explosive trap for multiple mobs), pull with serpent sting, mob runs towards you, triggers trap, then finish with raptor strike, along with your pet attacking. The pet stays beside you the whole time.
With this philosophy in mind, what pet would you prefer? What stats/abilities do you look for in a pet? Do you go MM or BM as secondary?
@@CheekyHaggis I always like an owl, bat or carrion for the screech ability. It's an AoE debuff that reduces mobs attack power. It's been a while since I played it, but if I'm playing a melee style survival, I think I kind of focused on gearing him like an enhancement shaman, some str, agi, and stam. If I'm not mistaken, I don't think agility increases melee attack power on a hunter in vanilla.
@@robertb67 Okok seems like screech is the most sought after ability when asking ppl. I heard Agi is actually the same melee AP as STR in HC Classic atleast, so strictly better if that's the case. Thx for replying
There is nothing wrong about going full out melee as a hunter, your not doing it wrong, you're only doing it different. That's the beauty about Classic talent tree.
And then nobody takes you to raids if youre solo 😀👍
@@Oabize If you have chosen to play like this, then you have allready accepted that outcome. Not everyone are raidjunkies.
Just letting you know, I was raiding as a spell hunter LOL
@@Oabize honestly who cares about raids? unless you enjoy doing that type of pve, raiding is simply spending hours wiping on bosses just to earn a piece of gear and then raidlog for the week. I of course, have nothing against you if that's what you prefer, but to me raiding is kind of overrated, especially because everyone is limited to a single spec and rotation, that's not fun.
@@uz7699 thats because content is 15 y old. Nobody raid this content for fun anymore hence doing it meta way to save time. Nobody gonna be fine with spending X more hours nowadays because raid roster consists of prot palas, melee hunters etc. Even if ure in a guild that allows it as standard practice (going spell DMG hunter once because you have a mood for trolling and officers allow that in MC when u're already in naxx is not really raiding) be mindful that someone is pulling your weight for you to have fun
Survival = Survive against rouges and warriors
pretty much
Feign death, trap and thats it.
U can destroy them easy.
Scater shoot is OP plus intimidation.
i play deep survival, but i utilize my melee on its CD, arcane shots and stings weaving inbetween raptor strike cooldowns. Wyv sting into Aimed shot etc
I deliberately hunt down other hunters to melee them lol
Theres a server called Vanilla plus where each of the specs are made more viable so melee hunter for example isnt as big of a joke.
once you get full tier 3 you go 30 points into survival and get lightningreflexes, its the top dps spec for hunter in classic.
I’m waiting on this day :)
Yes but you also aren’t giving your party 100AP anymore :/ if your guild has a Druid tank in the raid comp and you get to be the group one hunter with Trueshot. You will also benefit from 3% more crit from the feral Druid in group one. I would imagine being Marksman with full tier three and feral buff, is just as good as Lightning Reflexes SV. Not individually but for your overall party. Not to mention the benefit of giving your tanks 100ap=the rest of the raid being able to do more damage and not take aggro.
No it's not.
I disagree with your assessment that Survival is MEANT to be played as a ranged spec.
The Survival tree has talents which;
1. Increase parry (only useful in melee as ranged attacks can't be parried).
2. Increase the crit chance of Raptor Strike and Mongoose Strike (both melee attacks).
3. Increase your health. Now, this one is definitely helpful whether you are ranged or melee, but it can be argued that this talent, along with the increased parry one, and the deterrence talent (see below), serv to make a survival hunter more "tanky" in melee.
4. Deterrence, which increases dodge and parry (only viable vs. melee attacks, since ranged attacks can't be dodged or parried).
5. One of the top talents in the survival tree is a very powerful melee attack (Counter Attack).
6. Hunters get mail armor. Why? Druids don't get it. Casters don't get armor upgrades at 40. Only other classes that get armor upgrades are melee classes, or at least, classes with a strong melee spec option (ala' Shaman).
7. A decent argument can even be made that all of the trap enhancement talents - which make it harder for a target to resist, or increases the duration they will be trapped by - are useful in melee, as they make it harder for mobs (or players), especially casters, to run away from you. Now, is this what the original devs intended? Who knows, but you can't say it doesn't work that way.
Survival was pretty obviously - at least to me - meant to be played as a hybrid melee/ranged spec.
Just because you CAN play survival as a ranged spec, doesn't mean it was MEANT to be played that way (it clearly wasn't).
what is that cast bar add on called?
Raptor Strike with a slow 2-hander will never not be satisfying to hit clothies with when they try to deadzone you. In 49s i'm doing something like 600-700 crits with it. More with Blood Fury active. If you want to have more fun in PvP, go survival/marks hybrid with scatter.
Fun fact, iv killed both esfand and McConnell in AB as melee hunter lol. Never got luck to encounter asmongold.
because u an macro 3 hunters mele ability into 1 keybind for insane burst...you can combine range and melee for insane burst. they have good dodge and parry. talented aspect of the monkey gives u like 13% dodge total. at max lvl u have 35+% dodge 20% parry... u ahve raptor strike for bonus dmg...u have moongose strike that proc when u dodge and u have counterattack that proc when u parry...they have 5s cd and moongose and counter are instant....tauren hunter for example...u can for wait dodge and aprry proc or u can activate deterence...get booth proc...war stomp, 2 isnta burst abilty, raptor, wingclips...the potential...add in pet, procs...
I've been playing survival hunter since MoP and I was curious to see what it was like in vanilla. I think I can safely say it was the absolute worst in Legion. I remember pulling off 6 stacks of mongoose bite and then using fury of the eagle all the time. I don't mind stack building, but having that super short window for fury of the eagle was lame. It wasn't even that rewarding. Not only that, but it completely lost its identity. "A rugged tracker who uses animal venom and explosives as deadly weapons." Legion survival had 0 venom based attacks. You were just the spear guy who threw a grenade here and there. At least later they gave us serpent sting back.
You're a diamond, don't let anyone tell you otherwise
Thanks man :)
You say that you want part of the aggro so you don't have growl on auto, with this philosophy in mind, what pet would you prefer? What stats/abilities do you look for in a pet?
oh man its been years, if I think right maybe a cat or wolf
What wold you say to a sv/BM hybrid
It’s not bad actually. If you don’t care about aimed shot. Must faster pased. I use that currently
I'm trying survival out I'm playing on a pvp server so everyone comes at me and figures my deadzone will save them then POW! I smoke them with my raptor strike/wing clip and move away and kite them to death Works really well Taken down a few people 3 levels higher than me that saw their chance to kill me and took it only to end up dying I only put 21 points into it so I can get counterattack Just reached level 30 so now I'll start putting my points into BM Makes sense to how I play and what talents I want
Your making me wanna come back to it 🥲
Perfect Troll hunter name: Lengman.
You are wrong about survival never been a melee spec. What people don't know is that the intention with survival at release whas a melee hunter. And the talents are prof of that. The last talent in survival whas a melee attack called Lacerate. When it whas so bad in damage they reworked a lot of the talents like taking Lacerate out, the 5% melee hit talent away, 5% melee talent out, the raptorstrike -1sec cd out.
The problem whas blizzard being chicken not sticking with melee and buffing but reworking.
But survival have always been a melee spec at hearth
I had different perspectives of the spec and I agree
I'm still SoDcore for my melee hunter spec. It's a fun spec to play.
I've been told just switch to survival spec in classic. It's the same thing as an actual hunter melee spec.
No it isn't. I AoE with explosive trap and hit em with Carve. With point blank ranged kill shots in between CDs. And my dodge is about a 1in 3 chance of procing my mongoose. While my bird uses screech.
True melee hunters don't clip and range out. We obliterate everything in our forward arc. And have a hoot doing it :)
💯
00:39
such violence!
Lmfao
I try going to SV hunter in PvP.. just wow and more fun in classic .. I kill mage as same rank with melle only cuz im in dead zone can't hit with range.. The most fun in SV i think if vs any melle
charlyn stones I really enjoy hunting down other hunters using survival. They don’t ever know what to do once I get closed in on them
Bro is cooked by switched "skill panels" for melee and range
Hahaha
Original survival was focused on dodge, improved melee abilities and control with WS. Now telling someone you should play they way you play is wrong. As SV hunter you can easily focus two mobs at the same time. One can take pet while you’re tanking other. That was the most efficient way to lvl. The reason it didn’t see play in raids it’s because dodge mechanics. In order to use mongoose you need to dodge and as hunter you are NOT supposed to be main target. If it had focus from start and mongoose bite just regular CD it would be much better
It was mainly not used in raids, because we didn’t have true shot.
surv is what you spec into once you get tiered armor
Or know how to play. I destroyed people as surv
Hi, Im survi hunt too.
I heard that uve played on 3.3.5. Here I have a question, do you know where to get on that version AA-timer swing Addon?
I don’t :p
whats your talent tree look like
It’s been a couple years, but I don’t really remember. I think I made a video discussing it.
Mm is just aimed shot. Literally casting aimed shot at same time lmfao
It's crazy that this video got around 200:100 like to dislike ratio just because you are saying you like certain spec. Classic andies are truly something else😅
You should see my treatment on the forums
Survival = melee weaving and check hyjal project standart vanilla api pv sv
Dude, where is talent build for survival????
I have like three videos on talents
tbcdb.com/talents/index.html?en&hunter&05032001425210052120000000000000000 insane mele burst u can macro raptor strike, moongose bite and counterattack...you ahve insane stamina, dodge and parry...moongose bite go well with aspect of the monkey
@@eclipse369. tbcdb.com/talents/index.html?en&hunter&05032001425211040100000000000000000000000030205303103022 posted wrong link opsie... something like this
@@GamingDualities Would you use that for PVP?
@@robertomcgee5372 yeah so u can be a threat even in close range. even tho dwarf with stoneform would be nice so u can coutner rogue slows... or mybe surefooted talent...but also I was wrong u can only macro raptor+ mongoose..u need to put counter on another keybind tho lol. but ye melee hunter seems juicy in TBC. also tauren might be good for war stomp+ freeze combo and because tauren have bonus hp...so u gain like 20+% mroe hp from tauren racal + hunter talents..than u take spirit bond so ur generate a lot of hp...
I play on Myzreal. Good shit
Who is your toon?
Bazzbe Of Myzrael I’m on alliance but me warriors name is Jussanut, didn’t know any you tubers were on Myzreal
Oh nice. Me and someone I played with had a guild on alliance called Heaven. I think I’m the only one
NO scater NO Hunter ^^
Counter attack is better imo. Procs fast and almost spamable
@@LucarioTV30 having both is amazing thats why a mm/surv hybrid build can be utterly devastating in pvp
True, but I use spell hunter a lot and really need the wrym sting
...MM is boring? In Pve it plays exactly the same. The only defining PVP talents are trap related and deterrance which can obtained by MM. Don't get me wrong, when I pvp I go SV, but I raid MM. We are hunters, its not like the gold lost switching specs twice a week is a hardship.
Mm is 100% boring. It’s not engaging at all for me. Retail it’s fun due to the zero range being removed. Waste of gold too lol. I just stay survival unless I wanna play with BM once a moon
It’s versatile in a sense you can melee with it and tank with it without the pet. MM can’t do that aswell
Indeed survial is RANGED. Or give survival plate armor and shield and some heals like blood dk and then we shal SURVIVE!
Man use Growl on your pet, making it way harder and longer then it has to be
As survival you want to have aggro. If your not being attacked, mongoose strike or counterattack would never proc
LOL, bro.
@@LucarioTV30 then why use a boar instead of a bat/owl or a wolf?
Get the hell outta there ! Lol