I saw the original peps from school playground many times, and that non stop at Shepperton, I heard that for some brake testing grease was applied near Kempton Park, my cousin spotted a tube train at Fulwell that week, a rail grinder car with standard stock borrowed from LT to clean the rail.....
I was on board the ‘Sefton Sparkler’ farewell tour for the Merseyrail Class 507, 3rd November 2024. All branches of the Northern Line were covered throughout the day, including Kirkdale depot and various crossovers. The units were 507001 and 507023. Two days ago 507001 was moved from Birkenhead North depot for the last time, being taken to Newport. Yesterday the vehicles were loaded onto Alleys transports to be moved to Derby for the Railway 200 celebrations, after which 507001 will be moved to Nant Mawr for preservation.
Excellent to see these fine units represented here. 👍 Couple of points: The Merseyrail 507 and 508 units had extensive refurbishment in the 2000s which gave them a notably different look and feel from other PEP units. The 507s differed from the 508s in being built with no passenger operated door controls, these being plated over when 508s were moved to the Wirral line. Initially the 507s exclusively worked the Northern Line and 508s the Wirral, although they became more mixed later on. And as someone who grew up there, Kirkby is pronounced "Kerrbee". 😉
Some corrections - the 4PEP door problems were due to passengers trying to force open the doors before the train had stopped. The production units were not produced in larger numbers because the 317 Mk3 carriage-derived design was cheaper to produce with 4 motors not 8 (but slower acceleration), and all steel bodies but narrower sliding doors.
Absolutely. I don't mind the musical sounds of the 777s and other AC motor designs, but there's something classy about old fashioned DC motors. Didn't sound all that different from the 502s and 503s that preceded them, at least in comparison.
@@Alex-xs6ht True story - I have a walking stick, and was once walking along the platform at Kirkby on a quiet Sunday afternoon with a 507 parked up. I stopped by the door to board and suddenly wondered why I could still hear my stick on the platform. Guess what it actually was... 🤦 Wibble!
The KCRC emu is more a mixture but the whole design is really took from Pep and Class 317 Traction package deriave from Class 317 and traction motor control from 302/303...But with EP/Auto Air brakes only No rehostic or 3-step EP brake system.
The new Merseyrail network initially only went as far as Garston in the south, and Rock Ferry in the Wirral. Later electrification happened first to Hunt's Cross on the Northern and then Hooton before the extensions to Chester and Ellesmere Port in Wirral. Partly the PEP Fleets allowed more reliability and the change from 20 min to 15 min frequencies on all lines as well as being able to cover all the extensions.
I enjoyed seeing the class 455s get a mention, any plans to cover them? As someone who commutes using the 455s on the Kingston loop, and Shepperton branch lines it was nice to see some of the wider history of the class, and learn of the Shepperton incident for the first time! We're just now seeing the 455s start to be replaced by the new (much delayed) class 701 (rode on my first one only last week) but I think we'll be seeing the 455s for a several years yet.
@@andrewreynolds4949 they've been saying that they'll replace them since 2019 but nothing else has been said. Now they've turned their attention to the HSTs. Anyway it's a good thing because I really like the 318s and 320s
@ZLDSmogless It's gotten kind of annoying, since they were so emphatic on replacing their whole fleet with "green" trains on a short timeframe. Yet they've gone silent, not admitting they either have or will have to walk back those plans entirely. You can only delay publishing updated plans for so long before it's clear you no longer have one.
@@andrewreynolds4949 given how rapidly they've began electrification on a lot of lines (like the coastal line to Ayr), and the failure of hydrogen to manifest as a viable alternative, I imagine they want to go for electric trains they can use right away. (Maybe when a line is ~80% done, if they have some battery.) After all, buying a bunch of trains you can't use for 2-3 years often causes scandals as well. Though I agree they should've been making more noises, or a press release, or _something_ about their strategy. Assuming they do actually have one. I honestly think the comms part of ScotRail got a bit worse with the nationalisation, even though I massively appreciate the extra staff in the stations.
I enjoyed the 508's stint on the Medway Valley line, but I think that was due a bit to its novelty value. It made strange noises compared to our other stock!
That sound at the end!! 😍 Always had a soft spot for these. Not just because of their use in Glasgow! But the lines are so clean, minimal, and functional. It's really got that 70s-early-80s geometric look to it. And of course, the similarly-framed diesel units such as (IIRC) 150. It's funny how people 10 years younger than me say these look really old-fashioned, as I think they still look relatively modern - to me old-fashioned would require a bulbous-fronted train with all sorts of cords coming out the front! But hey-ho. I suppose their expectations are for all these swoops, cuts, and bumps for aero. Maybe the circular headlights date it for them, too.
I never realised how old they were! I remember riding on them as a kid in the mid-2010s on First Capital Connect (later Great Northern). Thought they were rather bare-bones.
I remember the 508s being added to the 313s on the Watford DC line. I also remember the disparity between the 3 per hour 3-car 313 service to Watford and the 8-car 315 services on the Shenfield line (often boosted during peak hours to a very frequent service). The 315s had that single seat configuration by the doors mentioned in the video.
I remember when these units were introduced, though I never saw the prototypes in service. They were originally designated PER ( prototype electro rheostatic) , but the name PEP was more catchy so it stuck. In 1983 I was a postgraduate at Strathclyde University, and I lived in Bearsden. The services ran through to Queen Street low level and were still in the hands of 303 units. However there were a couple of peak hour trains which ran on the reopened line to Central low level, and these were operated by Class 314s.
The final Class 507 ran on 28 November 2024, not November 3rd. The final Class 507 service was the 09:02am Liverpool Central to Southport service, with 507003 and 507029 doing the honours.
I used to work the 313’s on Southern as a conductors. They were a big downgrade from the 3 car 377’s with their big seats (long replaced) and lack of toilets, especially on a late night Pompey run. Was always strange doing ‘Big Blue’ (201) as someone was always taking a picture. We had a BR double arrow to put on her, but were forbidden for some reason. They used to leak all the time, the stupidity placed alarms were always getting pushed with no published way to reset, feet were always on the seat that also used to collect a large amount of dust ( the flick test was fun to do in front of folks). But when they went I lost my safety critical and route knowledge part of my job and became a obs and the job was never the same again. ps towards the end the paint was just about the only thing keeping the cabs attached. They were so rusty and the electrics were ancient behind the panels. So many relays.
I remember watching from the school playing field as the first 313s were tested on the Welwyn Garden City - Moorgate line in 1976. Later on in life, I would cram into one every weekday at Finsbury Park and travel down to Moorgate to work. Not the most glamorous of machines, and quite spartan, but workhorses nonetheless.
🥰 - the class 313 was my childhood train, we live on Gordon Hill, Enfield, north London, and have the Hertford loop line next to it, with a station at the top. My dad [recently retired] was a IT engineer and worked in an office in London and he would go on the 313 of the week mon-fri, GORDON HILL > MOORGATE and 1 of the office’s had a children’s Christmas party and all of us would go on said train to dad’s work. On rare occasions when we wanted to go on holiday at grandmas hotel and dad wasn’t available to take us in the car, we (me, mum & brother) would walk with luggage to the station - GORDON HILL > STEVENAGE~ECML > HUNTINGDON, then walk to the hotel. With the experimental trains, I was intrigued with the appearance of the windows ~ initially they had what I assumed that the top half were double-hopper’s but I then saw that 1 of the ‘hoppers’ had a bar through its middle = I now think that one side was glass and the other a small sash that lowered for ventilation - coped from “slam-doors” that have always had a sash window in them, to European trains that have sash windows? As for the final design - the 313 had full-length single hopper for each window with a latch bar ~ some even had a “open for extra ventilation” sticker on them , in comparison to ‘bus’ hopper windows that are spring-loaded.
I saw the Merseyrail 507s and 508s on brief visits to Ormskirk and Chester when they were all still in service and when I visited Merseyrail last year, as part of a day out, I saw four class 507s and they were operating in pairs.
Down in Kent the 508s took me to school and work for many years. That first clip with flat spotted wheels was a common racket on them. Some bits of the line lacked adhesion. And not so reliable doors sometimes caused delays. Otherwise they did the job fine
The second k in Kirkby is silent. Sorry couldn't help myself. Have a fondness for this general class (313/507/508) having used them here in Merseyside going into school, occasionally using them when at University in Glasgow and also when commuting in Cambridge area. Sad to see them go when i returned to Merseyside.
In NZ we had some Hungarian trains on our Wellington to Upper Hutt lines, prior to that we had some red electric units. Sure be interesting to find out about those if you do international stuff.
I pass 313121 everyday in the way to work. Unfortunately it was badly damaged by kids a few years back! The hydrogen unit was taking for scrap just this week.
On my line this was the first set of trains to replace the slam-door trains in the 1980s - they were many used on the all-stopping station work from Gidea Park to Liverpool Street. their biggest issues were the ABS and the brake design leading to SPAD esp due to leaves on the line
Flagship projects like the APT and Intercity units may have taken the glory, but these PEP units showed that even commuter stock can be cutting edge. I'd say that they were virtually bulletproof - well, apart from that poor train that overshot Shepperton due to what would become railway stock's greatest enemy, leaves on the line.
As a driver my basic traction was the Class 315, 317 and 321, but I went on to learn and sign the 313, 455 and others too numerous to mention. However, I am sure the tight lock coupler was a semi-automatic coupler (due to the need to press couple button when coupling). . (I am sure that's in the traction manual, but I could be wrong, I usually am, as it was a long time ago).
As a Hertford boy I saw the 313 come into service with a high frequency service to moorgate every 20min. Replacing the cravens 105 dmus 48 years later living on the south coast I waved goodbye to them. Just think if in 76 we had 48yr old trains running they would have been steam engines that had just become lner.... That's how long lived the PEPs were
Its about time the 507/508s get a video from someone. I have been riding them all my 42 years and even a bit before I was born. They are more comfortable and reliable than the 777 that replaced them too. ☹
I loved the 507 and 508 units in Liverpool, I'd ride on them a lot. I loved thr noises as they'd pull into/out of stations too. Still, 48 years isn't a bad run. I hope Ruairidh does a video on the creation and running of Merseyrail at some point.
Never had production PEPs in my area or era (SWML), but glad I had a few rides on Southern 313s and Merseyrail 508s in their last days. Nice solid units those. I'm now 50% excited for a 455 video (the units I grew up with and still ride today), but also 50% not looking forward to it, because it will signal their death! LOL. I guess I better get the trips in while I can.
Don't know how long this lasted but remember 315 door interlocks being connected such that drivers could have their power controllers engaged while doors were still open - that meant that trains shot off the very instant the doors shut \m/
That was certainly the case. Certain drivers would have the power controller at Notch 4 and brakes at release, and as soon as interlock was obtained, the brake released and off they shot. After a few incidents/accidents this was changed. It was considered bad practice to do this.
And Class 156 Sprinter DMUs are still trawling the network. Also, tell me you didn't start humming the Aquafresh advert jingle at the sight of all that Network South-east livery?
I've never been a fan of the pep units, i much prefer the 1st generation emu's. But i do appreciate the contribution they've made to the network over the years.
I think the Southern was the GOAT of the Big Four, but I think the LMS had them beat when it came to their legacy EMU stock. someone riding on a slamdoor class 312, then shortly after riding a new class 313: ‘Now this is an upgrade.’
I find it interesting that these series were always known as the 'PEPs'. Surely the 313, 314, 315, 507 & 508 should be SEPs (Squadron Electro Pneumatic)? Not all the class of 313s spent all their early years in London. Very early in the 80s, 4 units (313008,313033-035) were used on the Colchester-Clacton/Walton services. Then later in the decade, 313061-064 were used on the same line. These were renumbered 313096-099 during their time there. 313063 overshot the stop in Walton & re-appeared as 313098 in NSE livery.
Class 315 were the workhorses on the chingford and hertford east routes from Liverpool street. However, they should have been replaced in the year 2000, tbh.
There is still one class 507 plying the Merseyrail network, it's been painted in the original blue and silver livery. Whenever I board it I'm struck by how damn bouncy those things were.
These trains were not popular when they replaced the slam door stock. Although there were some vehicles with closed compartments, by 1970, most of the SUB and EP suburban stock had through gangways running the length of the vehicles, with 2+3 seating. Due to lack of standback space and two relatively narrow doorways on each side, loading and unloading was glacially slow at busy stations like Finsbury Park. Step gaps on convex platforms were excessive. Seat/window placement was poor. Passengers could find themselves on the 90 minute Brighton-Portsmouth run with no toilet. Whoever designed them should have learned some of the lessons from London Underground stock.A variation of the Metropolitan Line A60 stock would have been better. The best thing about them was the bogie design. Could have done better.
Growing up on Merseyside I used the 507/508s to travel into Liverpool often. I didn't appreciate at that stage, having since moved around the country, how fortunate we were to have such an excellent local rapid transit service, nor that these units were so performant and suited for their purpose.
I think your history is a bit inaccurate, at least on the Southern. The problem there was not rape and murder - this had already been addressed by conversion of compartment stock into saloon layouts, although I'm not sure how many 1951 stock SUBs were converted (as compared to EPBs which I think were comprehensively upgraded). The problem facing Southern management was that all the suburban commuter stock in use by 1968, when I left England, was slam door, prematurely aging and would probably not be refurbishable at an economic unit cost. It was also increasingly overcrowded in the peaks with no way of further modifying slam door layouts to increase capacity. A total re-think of Southern stock design was the only answer, of which the PEP prototypes were the first iteration.
I remember reading about British trains where you had separate compartments unreachable from any other. as an American I always found that to be slightly crazy. You never saw something like that in the United States as far as I know. British desire to be isolated from their neighbors?
No, at the time it was considered desirable on commuter trains to have as few standing passengers as possible, and therefore as many seats as possible. Having no aisle between seats or corridor meant an extra two seats could be provided per compartment.
@ longer trains. Sounds like a bit of a rationalization. After all as I understand it British commuter trains also had first and second class compartments. Something else you never saw in the United States commuter train.
@@kevinbarry71 Lots of little suburban and rural stations with short platforms. The longer the train, the greater the risk of someone opening the door one night and stepping out onto nothing. Station lighting then was nothing like it is now; I've read tales of a driver throwing the train into emergency, having been blissfully unaware of how close he was to the station until a passenger lit up a cigarette!
@ we have short platforms in the United States as well. They dealt with it by simply not opening the doors to those cars. I'm sure something like that could've been arranged in the UK
not as glamorous as a HST or other high speed intercity train, but without them cities would never function. Are there many 3rd rail systems still operational? Seems like a huge no no in todays health and safety overload world
Even back in 1972, this flat garage door front was the best British engineers and designers could come up with. Really. If you don't believe in aerodynamics, then just ignore it, right.
I think you’ll find most passenger units were like this due to constraints of length at the end terminals. I know this to be true of New Zealand trains.
I'm an American, but the PEP units will always be my favorite UK EMU. Amazing video like always
Nah - BIGs and SIGs😅
always loved the 313, 314, 315, and all others
Excellent documentary again. The PEPs were great ❤
Another quality video. These units were one of BR's quiet successes and no wonder they were a regular sight all my life.
I saw the original peps from school playground many times,
and that non stop at Shepperton, I heard that for some brake testing grease was applied near Kempton Park,
my cousin spotted a tube train at Fulwell that week, a rail grinder car with standard stock borrowed from LT to clean the rail.....
I had a weekend at Southport shortly before their final demise, and loved the "ding-ding" you could hear as the guard signalled the driver to go.
No doubt, the best suburban EMUs ever built for the British Rail. I’m 🙏 that 313201 is transported to a heritage railway for preservation.
313201 is preserved, it just lives at Eastleigh at the moment
I was on board the ‘Sefton Sparkler’ farewell tour for the Merseyrail Class 507, 3rd November 2024. All branches of the Northern Line were covered throughout the day, including Kirkdale depot and various crossovers. The units were 507001 and 507023. Two days ago 507001 was moved from Birkenhead North depot for the last time, being taken to Newport. Yesterday the vehicles were loaded onto Alleys transports to be moved to Derby for the Railway 200 celebrations, after which 507001 will be moved to Nant Mawr for preservation.
I was on said tour too, a great day, well worth the silly early start!
As the rest go to their end at Unimetals, Newport Docks.
I was on the Southern farewell tour - very enjoyable, although very much the end of an era!
Excellent to see these fine units represented here. 👍
Couple of points: The Merseyrail 507 and 508 units had extensive refurbishment in the 2000s which gave them a notably different look and feel from other PEP units. The 507s differed from the 508s in being built with no passenger operated door controls, these being plated over when 508s were moved to the Wirral line. Initially the 507s exclusively worked the Northern Line and 508s the Wirral, although they became more mixed later on.
And as someone who grew up there, Kirkby is pronounced "Kerrbee". 😉
Some corrections - the 4PEP door problems were due to passengers trying to force open the doors before the train had stopped. The production units were not produced in larger numbers because the 317 Mk3 carriage-derived design was cheaper to produce with 4 motors not 8 (but slower acceleration), and all steel bodies but narrower sliding doors.
I remember travelling on one of those experimental units on a Charing Cross - Dartford service in 1973.
god, the sound of the 508 setting off from Liverpool Central at 17:48 sent sudders down my spine and a smile on my face.
Absolutely. I don't mind the musical sounds of the 777s and other AC motor designs, but there's something classy about old fashioned DC motors. Didn't sound all that different from the 502s and 503s that preceded them, at least in comparison.
Same!! That is THE sound of an electric train to me.
I will always remember the “ticking” noise from them
@@Alex-xs6ht True story - I have a walking stick, and was once walking along the platform at Kirkby on a quiet Sunday afternoon with a 507 parked up. I stopped by the door to board and suddenly wondered why I could still hear my stick on the platform. Guess what it actually was...
🤦 Wibble!
I love these trains as well, mainly cus they are the bases for the Metro Cammell AC EMU (nickname Yellow Head) in HK which is also an awesome train
The KCRC emu is more a mixture but the whole design is really took from Pep and Class 317
Traction package deriave from Class 317 and traction motor control from 302/303...But with EP/Auto Air brakes only
No rehostic or 3-step EP brake system.
@AAA839 they are still similar
I miss Metro Cammell and BREL :(
The new Merseyrail network initially only went as far as Garston in the south, and Rock Ferry in the Wirral. Later electrification happened first to Hunt's Cross on the Northern and then Hooton before the extensions to Chester and Ellesmere Port in Wirral. Partly the PEP Fleets allowed more reliability and the change from 20 min to 15 min frequencies on all lines as well as being able to cover all the extensions.
Bit of a dark but important start but always appreciate your videos, very interesting and enjoyable to watch
I enjoyed seeing the class 455s get a mention, any plans to cover them?
As someone who commutes using the 455s on the Kingston loop, and Shepperton branch lines it was nice to see some of the wider history of the class, and learn of the Shepperton incident for the first time!
We're just now seeing the 455s start to be replaced by the new (much delayed) class 701 (rode on my first one only last week) but I think we'll be seeing the 455s for a several years yet.
Your videos are always a work of art, superb detail - does make me feel quite old looking at these units,, I can remember when they were new.
So sad that they're gone. Although thankfully, we still have our class 318s and 320s which are safe for now
Scotrail intends to replace its suburban fleet in the near future, but they’ve gone silent on actually ordering any trains for quite some time now
@@andrewreynolds4949 they've been saying that they'll replace them since 2019 but nothing else has been said. Now they've turned their attention to the HSTs. Anyway it's a good thing because I really like the 318s and 320s
@ZLDSmogless It's gotten kind of annoying, since they were so emphatic on replacing their whole fleet with "green" trains on a short timeframe. Yet they've gone silent, not admitting they either have or will have to walk back those plans entirely. You can only delay publishing updated plans for so long before it's clear you no longer have one.
@@andrewreynolds4949 given how rapidly they've began electrification on a lot of lines (like the coastal line to Ayr), and the failure of hydrogen to manifest as a viable alternative, I imagine they want to go for electric trains they can use right away. (Maybe when a line is ~80% done, if they have some battery.)
After all, buying a bunch of trains you can't use for 2-3 years often causes scandals as well.
Though I agree they should've been making more noises, or a press release, or _something_ about their strategy. Assuming they do actually have one. I honestly think the comms part of ScotRail got a bit worse with the nationalisation, even though I massively appreciate the extra staff in the stations.
A great film commemorating a fabulous train. Loved the 313s, 314s, 315s, 507s and 508s. Will be sorely missed 😢
Nice to see your own work included in the video.
An enjoyable video into the history of some great units
Excellent video. Saw the 315's many times between London Liverpool St and Shenfield during the pre Elizabeth Line era.
I enjoyed the 508's stint on the Medway Valley line, but I think that was due a bit to its novelty value. It made strange noises compared to our other stock!
Starting off strong with that flat spot 😂
I heard it too😂😂
That 316 hydrogen train is no longer at the Bo’ness & Kinneil railway, all three cars left a week or so ago. 🏴🚂
I hope I'm wrong but I don't think it's future looks at all certain.
Aye, I think hydrogen hasnae worked out like ScotRail wanted it to.
I have great memories of seeing these operated by Merseyrail and Silverlink Metro (now the London Overground)
I’ve made many fond memories of the 313s and 507s in particular, and they will surely be missed. ~ Daniel
That sound at the end!! 😍
Always had a soft spot for these. Not just because of their use in Glasgow! But the lines are so clean, minimal, and functional. It's really got that 70s-early-80s geometric look to it.
And of course, the similarly-framed diesel units such as (IIRC) 150.
It's funny how people 10 years younger than me say these look really old-fashioned, as I think they still look relatively modern - to me old-fashioned would require a bulbous-fronted train with all sorts of cords coming out the front!
But hey-ho. I suppose their expectations are for all these swoops, cuts, and bumps for aero. Maybe the circular headlights date it for them, too.
I never realised how old they were! I remember riding on them as a kid in the mid-2010s on First Capital Connect (later Great Northern). Thought they were rather bare-bones.
Also, an inspiration for the Victorian Railways Comeng sets in Australia
I Do love the Peps Especially 313s in Nse
I LOVE Network SouthEast
I remember the 508s being added to the 313s on the Watford DC line. I also remember the disparity between the 3 per hour 3-car 313 service to Watford and the 8-car 315 services on the Shenfield line (often boosted during peak hours to a very frequent service). The 315s had that single seat configuration by the doors mentioned in the video.
i miss them so much
I remember when these units were introduced, though I never saw the prototypes in service. They were originally designated PER ( prototype electro rheostatic) , but the name PEP was more catchy so it stuck.
In 1983 I was a postgraduate at Strathclyde University, and I lived in Bearsden. The services ran through to Queen Street low level and were still in the hands of 303 units. However there were a couple of peak hour trains which ran on the reopened line to Central low level, and these were operated by Class 314s.
They will all be dearly missed.
Another great review: @Ruaiaridh MacVeigh : Please do your treatment of either the Class 201 or 205 / 207 DEMU Thumpers!
The final Class 507 ran on 28 November 2024, not November 3rd.
The final Class 507 service was the 09:02am Liverpool Central to Southport service, with 507003 and 507029 doing the honours.
I used to work the 313’s on Southern as a conductors. They were a big downgrade from the 3 car 377’s with their big seats (long replaced) and lack of toilets, especially on a late night Pompey run. Was always strange doing ‘Big Blue’ (201) as someone was always taking a picture. We had a BR double arrow to put on her, but were forbidden for some reason. They used to leak all the time, the stupidity placed alarms were always getting pushed with no published way to reset, feet were always on the seat that also used to collect a large amount of dust ( the flick test was fun to do in front of folks). But when they went I lost my safety critical and route knowledge part of my job and became a obs and the job was never the same again. ps towards the end the paint was just about the only thing keeping the cabs attached. They were so rusty and the electrics were ancient behind the panels. So many relays.
I remember watching from the school playing field as the first 313s were tested on the Welwyn Garden City - Moorgate line in 1976. Later on in life, I would cram into one every weekday at Finsbury Park and travel down to Moorgate to work. Not the most glamorous of machines, and quite spartan, but workhorses nonetheless.
🥰 - the class 313 was my childhood train, we live on Gordon Hill, Enfield, north London, and have the Hertford loop line next to it, with a station at the top. My dad [recently retired] was a IT engineer and worked in an office in London and he would go on the 313 of the week mon-fri, GORDON HILL > MOORGATE and 1 of the office’s had a children’s Christmas party and all of us would go on said train to dad’s work. On rare occasions when we wanted to go on holiday at grandmas hotel and dad wasn’t available to take us in the car, we (me, mum & brother) would walk with luggage to the station - GORDON HILL > STEVENAGE~ECML > HUNTINGDON, then walk to the hotel. With the experimental trains, I was intrigued with the appearance of the windows ~ initially they had what I assumed that the top half were double-hopper’s but I then saw that 1 of the ‘hoppers’ had a bar through its middle = I now think that one side was glass and the other a small sash that lowered for ventilation - coped from “slam-doors” that have always had a sash window in them, to European trains that have sash windows? As for the final design - the 313 had full-length single hopper for each window with a latch bar ~ some even had a “open for extra ventilation” sticker on them , in comparison to ‘bus’ hopper windows that are spring-loaded.
I saw the Merseyrail 507s and 508s on brief visits to Ormskirk and Chester when they were all still in service and when I visited Merseyrail last year, as part of a day out, I saw four class 507s and they were operating in pairs.
Pep’s are one of my fav trains sadly they are not service scrapped. Still I love them.
I loved the 313 on southern
Mentioning the MK3 follow ups makes you realise that the PEP designs outlasted some of their supposed successors in passenger service
Ypur videos are fantastic
Thank you 👍
Down in Kent the 508s took me to school and work for many years. That first clip with flat spotted wheels was a common racket on them. Some bits of the line lacked adhesion. And not so reliable doors sometimes caused delays. Otherwise they did the job fine
The NSE era video is super clean. I'd be interested in the origin of those clips to see the whole program for them.
The second k in Kirkby is silent. Sorry couldn't help myself. Have a fondness for this general class (313/507/508) having used them here in Merseyside going into school, occasionally using them when at University in Glasgow and also when commuting in Cambridge area. Sad to see them go when i returned to Merseyside.
In that vein, Lewes is pronounced more like the name Lewis not Lewees.
In NZ we had some Hungarian trains on our Wellington to Upper Hutt lines, prior to that we had some red electric units. Sure be interesting to find out about those if you do international stuff.
I pass 313121 everyday in the way to work. Unfortunately it was badly damaged by kids a few years back!
The hydrogen unit was taking for scrap just this week.
Excellent timing with 507001 currently being transported to Derby [and onwards] for preservation.
On my line this was the first set of trains to replace the slam-door trains in the 1980s - they were many used on the all-stopping station work from Gidea Park to Liverpool Street.
their biggest issues were the ABS and the brake design leading to SPAD esp due to leaves on the line
Flagship projects like the APT and Intercity units may have taken the glory, but these PEP units showed that even commuter stock can be cutting edge. I'd say that they were virtually bulletproof - well, apart from that poor train that overshot Shepperton due to what would become railway stock's greatest enemy, leaves on the line.
or the 313 that knocked down Walton on the Naze station.
As a driver my basic traction was the Class 315, 317 and 321, but I went on to learn and sign the 313, 455 and others too numerous to mention.
However, I am sure the tight lock coupler was a semi-automatic coupler (due to the need to press couple button when coupling). . (I am sure that's in the traction manual, but I could be wrong, I usually am, as it was a long time ago).
As a Hertford boy I saw the 313 come into service with a high frequency service to moorgate every 20min. Replacing the cravens 105 dmus 48 years later living on the south coast I waved goodbye to them. Just think if in 76 we had 48yr old trains running they would have been steam engines that had just become lner.... That's how long lived the PEPs were
I liked them plenty of room and mostly comfortable seats..
Its about time the 507/508s get a video from someone. I have been riding them all my 42 years and even a bit before I was born. They are more comfortable and reliable than the 777 that replaced them too. ☹
I loved the 507 and 508 units in Liverpool, I'd ride on them a lot. I loved thr noises as they'd pull into/out of stations too. Still, 48 years isn't a bad run. I hope Ruairidh does a video on the creation and running of Merseyrail at some point.
There is a video about the building of merseyrail on UA-cam. Including the plans & construction
ua-cam.com/video/krXBdSahsEc/v-deo.htmlfeature=shared
Never had production PEPs in my area or era (SWML), but glad I had a few rides on Southern 313s and Merseyrail 508s in their last days. Nice solid units those. I'm now 50% excited for a 455 video (the units I grew up with and still ride today), but also 50% not looking forward to it, because it will signal their death! LOL. I guess I better get the trips in while I can.
I remember seeing the prototype unit running from Hampton Court to Waterloo. Seems a long time ago. They looked very modern then.
Truly the first Modern British EMU
Don't know how long this lasted but remember 315 door interlocks being connected such that drivers could have their power controllers engaged while doors were still open - that meant that trains shot off the very instant the doors shut \m/
That was certainly the case. Certain drivers would have the power controller at Notch 4 and brakes at release, and as soon as interlock was obtained, the brake released and off they shot. After a few incidents/accidents this was changed. It was considered bad practice to do this.
And Class 156 Sprinter DMUs are still trawling the network.
Also, tell me you didn't start humming the Aquafresh advert jingle at the sight of all that Network South-east livery?
I've never been a fan of the pep units, i much prefer the 1st generation emu's. But i do appreciate the contribution they've made to the network over the years.
I think the Southern was the GOAT of the Big Four, but I think the LMS had them beat when it came to their legacy EMU stock.
someone riding on a slamdoor class 312, then shortly after riding a new class 313:
‘Now this is an upgrade.’
I find it interesting that these series were always known as the 'PEPs'. Surely the 313, 314, 315, 507 & 508 should be SEPs (Squadron Electro Pneumatic)?
Not all the class of 313s spent all their early years in London. Very early in the 80s, 4 units (313008,313033-035) were used on the Colchester-Clacton/Walton services. Then later in the decade, 313061-064 were used on the same line. These were renumbered 313096-099 during their time there. 313063 overshot the stop in Walton & re-appeared as 313098 in NSE livery.
15:25 the class 315s on TfL Rail were replaced by 345s not 710s
Class 315 were the workhorses on the chingford and hertford east routes from Liverpool street.
However, they should have been replaced in the year 2000, tbh.
There is still one class 507 plying the Merseyrail network, it's been painted in the original blue and silver livery. Whenever I board it I'm struck by how damn bouncy those things were.
Not anymore, it's been taken away to Derby now
Trey all deserve better because they did so much for us a they didn't deserve to be scrapped
3:10 I’m not sure what you mean about “side buffers”. Buffers are not a form of coupling.
313s were the first u it's I worked.. Nice and simple
Not Eastleigh depot, Eastleigh Works
Did these run out if Liverpool Street to Essex?
315s did on the Liverpool Street to Gidea Park and Liverpool Street to Sheffield services.
The Cathcart circle without that hum, and now instead the Desiro whine, is a shame.
I love these but I don't understand why they didn't stick with the more metro-like door layout of the PEP prototypes.
I miss the 508s in Liverpool
same, the 777's feel soulless to me, and the seats are no where near as comfortable.
I've been on the class 314s before
15:25 Class 345's not 710's!
The 313/314/315/507/508 family are not PEPS. They are PEP derived units.
I bet you're fun at parties
First shot, Alexandra Palace.
Connex is pronounced "Con-ex" Con pronounced like the beginning of the word "Connect" and swapping the "ct" to "Ex".
These trains were not popular when they replaced the slam door stock. Although there were some vehicles with closed compartments, by 1970, most of the SUB and EP suburban stock had through gangways running the length of the vehicles, with 2+3 seating. Due to lack of standback space and two relatively narrow doorways on each side, loading and unloading was glacially slow at busy stations like Finsbury Park. Step gaps on convex platforms were excessive. Seat/window placement was poor.
Passengers could find themselves on the 90 minute Brighton-Portsmouth run with no toilet.
Whoever designed them should have learned some of the lessons from London Underground stock.A variation of the Metropolitan Line A60 stock would have been better. The best thing about them was the bogie design. Could have done better.
Growing up on Merseyside I used the 507/508s to travel into Liverpool often. I didn't appreciate at that stage, having since moved around the country, how fortunate we were to have such an excellent local rapid transit service, nor that these units were so performant and suited for their purpose.
I think your history is a bit inaccurate, at least on the Southern. The problem there was not rape and murder - this had already been addressed by conversion of compartment stock into saloon layouts, although I'm not sure how many 1951 stock SUBs were converted (as compared to EPBs which I think were comprehensively upgraded). The problem facing Southern management was that all the suburban commuter stock in use by 1968, when I left England, was slam door, prematurely aging and would probably not be refurbishable at an economic unit cost. It was also increasingly overcrowded in the peaks with no way of further modifying slam door layouts to increase capacity. A total re-think of Southern stock design was the only answer, of which the PEP prototypes were the first iteration.
I remember reading about British trains where you had separate compartments unreachable from any other. as an American I always found that to be slightly crazy. You never saw something like that in the United States as far as I know. British desire to be isolated from their neighbors?
No, at the time it was considered desirable on commuter trains to have as few standing passengers as possible, and therefore as many seats as possible. Having no aisle between seats or corridor meant an extra two seats could be provided per compartment.
@ longer trains. Sounds like a bit of a rationalization. After all as I understand it British commuter trains also had first and second class compartments. Something else you never saw in the United States commuter train.
@@kevinbarry71 Lots of little suburban and rural stations with short platforms. The longer the train, the greater the risk of someone opening the door one night and stepping out onto nothing. Station lighting then was nothing like it is now; I've read tales of a driver throwing the train into emergency, having been blissfully unaware of how close he was to the station until a passenger lit up a cigarette!
@ we have short platforms in the United States as well. They dealt with it by simply not opening the doors to those cars. I'm sure something like that could've been arranged in the UK
@kevinbarry71 doesn't work if there are compartments and no connecting corridors, though. Once you've gone down that road, you're committed.
Are the 455s and 321s and 319s not part of 1972 PEP?
No, those units are derived from the BR Mark 3 Coach.
maybe it should be considered to include toilets to all classes??
Lewes is pronounced "Lewis" as in the racing driver Lewis Hamilton. I lived in Lewes.
How I hated these! Loud bouncy, uncomfortable… absolute crap. They were slow too, compared to other trains. 12:29 exactly! Im one of those people!
not as glamorous as a HST or other high speed intercity train, but without them cities would never function. Are there many 3rd rail systems still operational? Seems like a huge no no in todays health and safety overload world
So the carpartment trains were rid of because of crime. Got it
the 777s are crap, bring back the 508/7s
Even back in 1972, this flat garage door front was the best British engineers and designers could come up with. Really. If you don't believe in aerodynamics, then just ignore it, right.
90% of BR trains are about as aerodynamic as a house brick. So these units are as you would expect from British trains.
Couldn't waste platform space, that's the constraint for suburban lines.
I think you’ll find most passenger units were like this due to constraints of length at the end terminals. I know this to be true of New Zealand trains.
Another issue is the need to use the doors for emergency egress in tunnels.
Aerodynamics aren’t really a concern In slower commuter service. The flat front and doors are the most efficient for space and operational reasons.
Why am I watching this?
hate these things