Modern Hot Hatch or Classic Sports Car? VW Golf GTI Vs Porsche 968 Sport
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- Опубліковано 3 сер 2018
- I always say modern cars are crap and old analogue cars are best.. Here I find out if I'm really right about that or not by comparing two of the best examples in their respective categories. The modern Mk7 Golf GTI is at the top of it's game and the 968 Sport is touted as one of the best handling Porsches ever....
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and next up why dont you do a comparison between the porsche 964 and a 2017 nissan GTR? That will probably end up as pointless as this video. Its hardly a suprising fact that if you give a car manufacturer an additional 25 years of development time, a car will get better and feel better to drive.
I think you're missing the point here Steve.. I actually expected to like the 968 more. For me it's not about an objective scientific comparison, it is a comparison from he point of view of an enthusiasts who likes old cars. Generally they may be slower and less relabel, less well built but they reward much more for a keen driver with more feel and feedback. I've since driven another 968 and when driven hard that was more fun than the golf. I want able. to push this one hard enough to find the sweet spot. The 968 is otherwise quite dead till taken close to the limit.
Just to let you know I agree with Steve. You are by far the most miserable car reviewer there is. You don't seem to get why the car is the way it is (This and your SL review) and nothing seems to please you. I'm so bored with your constraint whinging, I've unsubscribed and hopefully our UA-cam paths won't cross again.
@@g-shack3655 Thanks for taking time to reply to my comment.
"Nobody gives ... about your opinion"
Irony obviously means nothing to you! - faceplam
@@utubecomment21 Irony eh?
You flounced out and slammed the door and yet here you are several months later sneaking back in to have another bitch.
@@Number27 thats what they were ment for same as 911 if you dont make as they say make the motor sing you ruin it carbon build up seals dry same on early turbos
Hi Peeps. This is my 968. It's had recent (2k) ago head gasket belts chain guides water pump etc etc. Including all the critical valve timing. The previous owner had hnr anti roll bars and koni adjustable suspension fitted . I've fitted gts brakes. There is some play in the steering knuckle but by all accounts this is not a tired example. In my line aof work I'm lucky to drive quite a few from clubsports to stock ones and imo this one drives pretty well. That said this is jack's channel and it's his opinion on how he sees it. You might not agree with it but it's still his opinion. Great to get feed back but try keep it about the car and don't be personally abusive. Peace and love all. We all love porsches but we do t have to love them all. 🤟
Hey Dave! That the steering knuckle has a touch of play makes sense, perhaps in my own clumsy way thats what I felt.. but I'm no professional road tester. As you know I just say what I feel on the day as an ordinary guy, with limited time. The engine felt strong and I did like the car.. but like the Integrale that I owned it was just not quite as good as I was expecting - probably because I had overhyped it in my head or perhaps because I did not drive it long enough or hard enough. At the end of the day as you say this is just my opinion. Thank you again for lending me the car, I really appreciated it!
To have play in the steering knuckle on a sports car is NO NO in my book. I had that in my 968 and it was terrible.
The 968 got it's Best Handling Car award back in 1993 for it's balance on the limit. Very controllable in a slide. No they're not hugely quick, but also most cars with turbo's make them feel quicker in their power delivery.
The 968 is better looking & makes you feel more special than the bland Golf. A 968 is a sports car, a Golf is not.
Still take the Porsche 👍🏽
I do think that 968 was needing suspension refresh.. will be doing a video this week with a 968 CS so we will see if that changes things,.. Thanks for watching and for your comment!
The 968 was more than just a facelift. It was over 80% new over the 944 which is why Porsche decided to change the name from 944 to 968.
I thought the 968 replaced the older 928 model?
Not sure why the reviewer was so harsh on the 968. From what I could gather from the video, the 968 handled itself just fine considering its age. The modern Golf has new software, newer suspension bits, newer everything and in spite of that it did not do anything special compared to the old 968. That is a testament to how good the 968 really is as far as I am concerned.
Ive driven a lot of old cars.. including my own 964 which is from the same era as the 968..with the reputation they have I just expected more. Am driving another one next week as I suspect this one needed some work on the steering. Thanks for watching and for your comment!
Love the 968, very pure design. The front and rear looks so different to anything else today and takes me back to 1994 when I saw a club sport in yellow on the M11. Regardless of power I would still own one for the looks alone, might put a V8 in it though.
The 968 looks great in that colour. Porsche all day long for me.
I've raced a 968 in club racing for about 12 years, and when they're lightened up and set up well with full suspension and race tires they really are awesome to track drive. The front engine / rear transaxle balance is amazing. It's also been a very reliable race car for me, and I win my class with it pretty regularly.
Have heard this before.. lots of people really rate them. Am trying a CS next week so we will see how that fares!
Exactly. It's a 9/10ths car....not a plodding. Very wooden slow. Assuring and predictable on limit.
Respect to him for sharing his real impression rather than lying and just quoting evo bs.
Porsche 968 my first car, still with me 2018
Allah was a pedo ....
What does Allah look like
@@calvinrollo5078 ? Was that necessary?
Maybe you aren't pushing the 968 hard enough for the handling to come out.
Others have mentioned this and you may well be right.. thanks for watching and for your comment!
I have driven a 944S2 on the limit (on a skid pan) and I have to say that you need to be a REALLY good driver and then the car will corner FAR faster and harder than you would imagine just from normal driving and feels really connected and communicative when doing so and when you reach the limit of grip the 944 series cars gently let go in a predictable and communicative manner. The instructor was able to get the car round corners about 20mph faster than i could. In fact they go into gentle understeer at the limit. i also had the chance to provoke a 944 (my own 944 S2) into over-steer. Again very good to do with this car and the car really lets you feel what its doing on the limit. Something I suspect the golf wont do as well.
Came across this channel randomly. It caught my immediate attention as I own both, a 1993 Porsche 968 and a 2020 Mark 7 Golf GTI. Great video, and, by my experience, I can agree with most, if not all, of the outcome of your reviewing. Thanks for making and sharing.
One thing I notice every time I'm in my 968 - it's a small car, narrow and low. Other car drivers seem to look down on me, but you can corner it quicker on narrow roads (as long as the stiff steering lets you to), wheras in the Golf you have to contribute to its wider body by not cornering as fast as the car is capable of.
Really cool an interesting comparison. Thx from France mate. Love your UA-cam channel
Thanks for the honesty. We quite like the fact you based your review on the drive and not your expectations. I suspect, had you tried a refurbished 968 club sport the results may be different.
will be trying exactly that this week so we will see how that compares!! Thanks for watching and for your comment Henry!
I had a 944 back in the 90's and I agree with the suggestion that you have to have to grab it by the scruff of the neck to get the most out of it. I went from the 944 to a MK1 MX-5 and had miles more fun in that - mainly because I could drive within my limits and still have fun at lower speeds. I always thought I was going to run out of skill at the speeds that the 944 started to slide. Now that I'm an old bastard, I'm seriously considering a 944 again - it was a great cruiser.
Dated?? That car is a solid as a tank and so nimble I usually am with you, but lost on this ome
Well perhaps this one wasn't quite right.. am going to try a CS this week. Ultimately I'm not a professional reviewer but I do try and say things the way I feel them! Thanks for watching and for your comment!
Another really great and honest review Jack. I wasn't expecting that outcome though!
Yes I though many would be surprised
As an owner of a '16 MK7 GTI this is just the sort of thing I've always wondered about. Oh, and I'm posting this before I watch to the end so I'm expecting the modern front wheel drive car (nearly perfected at this point in time) to hold its own quite well, but that 968/944 was my "somewhat attainable" (but still about $6-10k too expensive) dream car when I first started driving in the late 90's..
I've only just discovered your channel but really enjoying it so far! I was actually about to do a video on a similar subject to this one shortly. I went to a car show this week and I was very bored with the new cars. The older cars, however, so much more interesting and characterful. Keep up the great vids.
True
Thanks buddy.. will take a look at your channel later as well!
Provoking but brilliant comparison, well done Sir !
Cheers
Porsche, all day long...
@Zombie Head , don't forget that the VW is packed with expensive electronic modules, overpriced plastic parts everywhere... They require an electronics wizard to work on them. In 20 years or less, they will be nearly impossible to maintain on the road.
I love this HONEST review. Normally old Porsche cars are spoken about like they are the best cars ever, but for most people a Golf GTI would be better to drive and cheaper to own.
Great review!
Another great video. Thanks for shining a light on what is an ongoing theory. Helping us peer through the romantic haze of our memories of past automotive heroes
Nice review mate. Do you like to go quick? If you do, do a bit with your foot down mate. I personally really like the in-car footage with the hands in view the best, gives the best perspective on what the thing is actually like to drive. Maybe inset?
I liked the video because of its honesty. I own a 944 85.5. And have owned it for about 16 years and love it. Keep up the great work.
Thanks Chris!! Enjoy the 944!
Title should be...air cooled fan tries to smear 968
I'm with you on modern cars. Mostly they are not involving, especially from VAG. For me the 968 is the car that when you park up, you will look back at... The golf.... Just another shopping trolley albeit quite a quick one. I know which one id want in my garage though. Top job, cheers!
Thanks fella, glad you enjoyed it!
Great review! I've been watching since stumbling onto your 928 review a year or so ago. Curious your thoughts on how the 968 compares to the 928? Do you have a preference? I know the 928 was an auto, but I hear a lot of folks aren't the biggest fan of the manual in that car...
928 not my kind of car as I'm not a fan of GT's but it is very good as one!! Am driving another 968 this week, a CS, and will see how that is..
Looking forward to it!
I recently got a 968. it’s incredible. It does handle exceptionally well but you need to be driving it fast. but I prefer the non sport suspension. On the motorway, it’s superb. Fiddly uk roads, not so much. Of course, it’s still a 25 year old car. It feels it. The seats you mention as soft. Standard seats are fine. Get the standard version! It’s the better all round car and cheaper.
Intersting to hear about the standard car.. Thanks for watching and for your comment David!
Number27 cheers. One thing I realised with the seats. I think I sit higher than you. It perhaps explains the comment you made about the dashboard being high. The sport seats seem very low down.and btw, I totally get your thoughts. I think the golf will be an amazing modern car. The Porsche is what it is. Old school. But I honestly see it as a fantastic long distance car with solid handling, performance and practicality.
968 all the way
am trying another one this week...
... And the 968 isn't slower, get a look www.zeperfs.com/match670-6713.htm
Number 27 I’m wondering how the second test drive went. I had a mk VI Golf I loved and a 1989 944turbo, and now we own a Tesla Model three LR and...the 30 year-old 944 is by far the best handling of the three. The test for me was to accidentally throw the car into a curve at a higher-than-safe speed and see what happens...the Porsche stayed glued to the track, while the Tesla will auto-correct ceaselessly and perfectly (annoyingly but safely) and the VW would understeer me off the road. The Porsche is made for hard driving as you’ve no doubt relentlessly heard. So yes, you drive it like a sports car, hard and often with the best quality bits you can buy on it.
How can you actually do a comparison between an almost brand new car and a car with 135000 miles on it? You say, maybe it is a bit worn.... I have a 968 with less than 100000 miles and I have replaced steering rack, bushings , shocks ++ . What about four wheel alignment? It is so unfair to do such a comparison without knowing how the car has been maintained.
This is a hobby for me, in an ideal world I would try and source perfect cars but as it is I have to make do with what I can borrow. The point is also though that if someone was to buy these cars the old one would probably not be in perfect condition anyway and that was kind of the point of the comparison.. should you buy or the other. however I am driving a 968 CS this week that should be fresh and will video that so we will see. Thanks for watching and for your comment!
I certainly agree!!!
porscheg50 What a pointless comment. If you can't see the point of the comparison, you clearly haven't put your brain in to gear. You never know how a used car will be until you've had it for some time, no matter what the service book says or how much money was spent maintaining it.
Agree with Porscheg50. A totally pointless comparison. "Old car is worn out and newer car feels fresher."
Good video sir, I have a 968 and agree with what you say on the handling on the road it does feel a bit big and heavy.( even though it isn't) .....but get it on a track or some fast empty roads and it changes character and because of the feeling at low speed makes it really drive well at higher speeds. It's a Very easy car to drive quickly .
Thanks for your interesting comment there Paul, appreciate you watching. Good to know your thought on the 968 as an owner!
Great video, driven the GTi so know where your coming from in terms of grip and performance!
I’m faced with a dilemma looking at being sensible and buying a gti or seriously considering a 987 Boxster gen 2 but concerned about running costs and repair bills as a daily driver.... what are your thoughts ?
Cheers
I love both Boxter and Cayman of that generation, fantastic drivers cars and would definitely blow the Gold out of the water. I think if you buy wisely the Boxter/Cayman should not be too hideously expensive to run, plus they won't depreciate as much as the Gold will as most of their depreciation is done. Thanks for watching!
how you test the handling while only driving straight?
Hi Jack... just catching-up on your videos, you've been busy whilst I was on holiday ;-). Interesting comparison & thanks for your honest views. When I test drove a 968 CS a few years back, I was also a bit disappointed, it didn't 'wow' me - I guess all those 90's reviews had raised my expectations too high. Looking forward to seeing more of your videos :-)
Thanks Sean... I drove another 968 for a follow up vid a couple of weeks after this one.. that did fare better. They have to be driven hard to be appreciated
Own an ‘89 944 turbo that’s been hopped up to about 335hp. Great car. Very exciting and engaging. Had the club sport seats.
First thing I did was to replace them with some Recaro model C seats. Made all the difference.
Higher seating position and much cushier with more lateral bolstering. Expensive, but worth it.
Thank you for being honest. I just test drove a 2018 GTI yesterday with a 7 speed DSG. It was great, and I have a 2017 BMW M240i which is a guided missile, and the GTI still felt like a lot of fun. And they've fixed the engine sound really nicely in 2018.
I try to be honest.. I'm not a professional but I just say what I feel at the time. having said that I do think this 968 needs a suspension refresh! Thanks for watching and for your comment mark!
Another good video. I like the way you actually considered the driving experience and came to your conclusion after, rather than a pre conceived notion of which car to own.
Th Golf driven does not have the fancy diff, that is on the performance pack and clubsport/S variants. Decent tyres and diff transform the Golf. I had a 968 CS in between various Lightweight 911, I sold the 968 as it was too easy to drive and not challenging on the limit like a real 911. The same parts prices as a 911 do not help the ownership experience, maybe justifiable now they are increasing in value?
Hey, I think the 2017 models like this one now come with the fancy diff as standard. Up to 2016 it was an option..? Thanks for watching and for your comment!
Sorry, that is not correct. Their was a performance pack option on the mk7 Golf up to the end of the production run that included +10bhp, larger brakes and slippy diff. The give away are the larger brakes and red GTi badges. The car used in the video has the regular brakes and silver badges.
When you run the plate details it comes up as the regular GTi not the performance pack with the diff. I was only trying to point out the difference when pushing on, the regular GTi has great traction up to 8/10ths.
Love the videos and honest appraisals.
Great stuff - you deserve way more subscribers! Keep doing what you're doing, they'll come :)
Thank you, very nice of you to say and I hope you are correct Ian!!
This didn't end up as we hoped. Do a review between mk2 Golf and new Cayman? :D
The Cayman is a very very good car though!!
Great vid n channel!👌😀 cheers from new Norwegian subs.
Fantastic!!! Love to hear of a new sub, thanks very much sir! Have childhood friends who live close to Oslo!
To appreciate these old Porsches you have to indeed spend more time with it. I had the same feeling with a 911 3.0 SC. Hated it in the beginning, a couple of years later totally in love with it.
You might be right buddy!! Driving the CS tomorrow!
Great film... And a classic point to ponder....classic vs current. Enjoyed that.
Thanks Tom! Glad you liked it
Hey Jack, interesting comparison. I wonder if a 944 s4 would have been a little sharper handling. I remember driving one back in the day, and it was pretty darn responsive.
Thanks Mark.. am doing another comparison this week with another 968, so we will see how that pans out’
If one plans carefully, one can sort of have their cake and eat it, too. In my case, it was a lot more practical to get a factory ordered Corvette Z06 and a Mazda3 2.5L manual for the price of a new 911. And still be able to jingle my change. Perhaps one could do the same with the Golf AND a 968? Thus far, I've been very pleased with my decision. I had to realize German cars here in the US are SUPER expensive to sort out and keep running. But, perhaps in Europe, it's a bit dif. BTW, I love your segments on the recent 308 purchase and how you sorted out it's engine issues. CONGRATS!!!
Having owned a couple of golf’s, including a 16v GTI back in the day… I totally agree with your assessment of them. Well built, competent… but just a bit dull. The 968 is a different generation of analog fun, and needs to be driven and appreciated in that way, it’s why we buy classic cars and bikes… nostalgic indulgence. I’m in no doubt that with a full engine and suspension refresh the 968 would be every bit as entertaining as the golf… with the added benefit of rarity. Great review Jack❤
Great stuff,could you get hold of some similar hatchbacks from back in the day like Nissan sunny gtir,Clio Williams,escort cosworth,lancia delta intergrale.Back in the 90s I had a Fiat strada abarth 130tc,that was a great hot hatch of its day,if you can find one to try I recommend it although they are rare,most of them have rusted away😢
Yes, that would make for a great video!! Would love to try a Strada Abarth. Thanks for watching Michael!
Another great episode Jack. The Golf has such a reputation for handling so, I'm not surprised by your verdict in that regard. I own an Audi S3 8P. Even though AWD. Being heavier, it succumbs to some oversteer when pushed hard @ reasonable speed in corners. I'm yet to fit a heavier rear anti-roll bar on that apparently sorts this out. Concerning the 968. I'm sure the travelled mileage accounts for a little less enthusiastic road handling. I thought the 3L lump would've been pretty grunty though. Surprised it didn't give you a huge smile. Thanks for the comparison as I'll never get to drive a 968 here down under. They are way too rare unfortunately :( What a beautiful machine it is. Would love to own one.
Don't really know how to take this video. However as GT cars from Porsche is a love hate relationship the best poised and responsive with enough grit to keep you on your toes is the 924 Careers GT.
Great video. Sorry that you were disappointed with the 968. Hope DBS wasn't either! In terms of a hot hatch you can always try my Renault Sport Clio 197. Much more feel than a GTi.
Color code for the 968?
Interesting. I will see a few more vids. Thank you
Fantastic.. that just the kind of comment I love to see. Thank you for watching!!!
Yep Porsche 968 Sport was devised by Porsche GB to generate more sales. The extra push you feel when accelerating is the Variocam system. My 968 Sport was fantastic for a 1996 car! better than the golf back then. I had the number plate '968 S' !! Also Dave has the wrong wheels on it so perhaps thats why you're not enjoying the drive. They weren't the standard wheels that came on the Sport.
At the end of the day the GTI is still based on the Golf hatchback city shopping car, the Porsche is a Porsche.
That sir is true! Thanks for watching and for your comment!
I disagree. I think the engine of a car is a big part of the vehicles identity and if my understanding is correct the engine block of the 944 and 968 was from a VW Caravelle! Not a great foundation, is it?
Yep and the original 924 was designed for VW, admittedly by Porsche. Porsche took it over when for various reasons VW didn't want to take it into production.
In more modern terms, at the end of the day the GTI is still based on the versatile Golf hatchback city or rural everything car, and the Porsche is a VW too.....
Urban myth. The early 924 used this block until about 1986 - in fact this block has underpinnings way back before VW to Auto Union and Mercedes. Porsche re-engineered the internals to race spec. Later 944 & 968 was a Porsche design.
I love the 968 and would choose it over virtually anything else. For the purposes of a daily driver, however, I would definitely take the Golf. For as much as I adore the Porsches of this era, the 968 is simply too old to be burdened with all of the demands of my obligations that require me to drive.
I would jump in any of my 968’s and drive cross country.
I was considering a Miata or an S-2000 when I retired, but having 7 grandkids made that a non-starter. I bought a new Focus ST and could not be happier. Tuned and modified, it’s a great and capable road car, and still practical and dependable. After 60 years of driving, it’s the best car I’ve ever owned.
BRAVO! ... at last someone has had the honesty to ditch the blinkers and the rose tinted glasses and be honest. So many of these fabled classics are really quite tired old lumps these days, while modern cars have improved beyond all recognition. And I speak as an ex 968 owner, who has just sold a Cayman to buy an Up GTI.
wow, I love the Cayman, think its one of the best small sports cars ever\!! Thanks for watching and for your comment John!
You are right, it is. The Cayman is a scalpel of a car, but it is really only at its best when driven with brio. Trouble is that gets less and less possible these days what with traffic, lumpy tarmac and the anti-speed mentality. After 11 years of ownership I was beginning to find driving it was more frustration that satisfaction. Hopefully the Up GTI will bring back some sensible speed fun, as I recall from my youth. It least I hope so … if only VW would EVER get around to making the bloody thing!
John, I hear you. Have you ever considered a Lotus; they're designed to be (and are) "fun at 50". Much more reliable than you think (Toyota engines, etc) now, too.
Yeah, they were on my radar, but years ago. I now find them too difficult to get in and out of.
Shame, but fair.
I own a very late 944. Every one who has driven it has taken time to get used to it, and in the end keep coming back to want another go
But they are different car segments?
Is the 968 Amaranth violet? Very nice :)
Not sure, will ask the owner but think it is. Thanks for watching and for your comment!
I have a 92 968 and a 17 GTI. Both manual.
The 968 is way more fun to drive-banging through gears and hammering the throttle on every turn. Rev matching and doing heel toes just feel so natural. It handles so well and you just can't beat that analog feel.
The GTI is a much better all arounder. Still fun, but not even close to the 968. More practical. Newer, so it's more reliable and needs less maintenance attention. Great mpg, although the 968 is not bad either.
Both great cars in their own rights.
I recognize that curve at 3:57 from Harry's Garage. Are you all affiliated?
Bryan Karlan It’s not anywhere near Harry’s area...that is the bend as you come down from Ivy Hatch towards Shipbourne in Kent
I also have a 968, but the coupe version. A modern hot hatch will see it off any day of the week! Mine has the leather sports seats which are MUCH better than the comfort versions you were sat in.
Whilst the engines are strong, they’re not particularly characterful, but they do benefit from a ‘chip’ upgrade, K&N air filter, and an exhaust upgrade to an (EXPENSIVE) Janspeed system.
The 968 does handle really well, but they are all getting long in the tooth now, so a lot of them will need or will already have had a suspension refresh (KW variant 3 is a Particular favourite). Good tyres also make a huge difference to the FEEL of the car.
Anyway, I thought your review was good and didn’t ‘gush’ over the old sports car, after all, they’re nearly 30 years, and they are what they are....👍🏻👍🏻
The 3L 4 cylinder is such a sweet ‘’little’’ engine
Another honest and enjoyable review.
I may upset a few people here for saying that the neither the Golf GTI, nor the Porsche 968 here is outstanding in any shape, form, or substance.
Buy the Golf, see it depreciate and rarely recover, buy the Porsche 968 and once the interest rate goes up, the value of the car will drop.
Neither are special enough for me. There are far better cars out there for the money, new, modern classics, and classics for 30k that will make you grin and love driving.
What cars are your favourited Corran?
My favoured cars have the following qualities:
Charismatic engine - four pot, six pot, eights and V12 doesn't matter, but ideally built in-house or bespoked to give the car it's 'own heart';
Distinctive yet beautiful/handsome designs - something which is quintessentially expressive of a marque, or even a country;
Good basic mechanical dynamics and chassis balance - no need for electronic aids/turning them off the car still shines, good drivetrain- LSD manual gearbox preferably but not essential and feel-some steering rack/wheel.
These combined + a sprinkle of motorsport success magic and you have a genuine classic.
Not many cars around that combine all of these:
Ferraris mostly 246, 288s F40s 308 Fibreglass, 355, 360s Challenge Stradale in particular, 430 Scuderia 458s Speciales, 250s 275s GTB
Porsche 911s but limited to RS and GT3s, the early Caymans and Bosxter in Spyder form also tempt...
Lancias I.e. Delta Evo2, Delta S4 037, Stratos, and the older cars
Alfas, Giulias both old and new, GTVs, even the front wheel drive ones, Alfasuds, SZ hell, even the pre war super cars like the 8c and 6cs
BMW CSLs and the E30 M3
Maseratis, the 90s Ghibli cup, Shamals, recent Gran Tourismos
Aston Martin, the old Vantages the first Vanquish, DB4 GT DB5 Vantage V8 Vantage recent (but not the current) and old
Fiat Dino, Fiat Panda 100hp...
Hondas I.e early NSX, Integras type r versions of the civics.
There are real gems I think. However I fully share your view - that older cars with good hydraulic steering set ups, sound mechanical engineering and balanced chassis can give the most feedback and enjoyment of driving.
I have Alfa 147 GTA, and a Lancia Delta Evo2 at the moment. Loving both - the Alfa for a front drive chassis and a 3.2 V6 - drives surprisingly well since it has had its suspension upgraded and Q2 diff fitted, and the sound of the Busso V6 is otherwordly from 4000 to 7000rpm like a 60s race car...but the keeper is the Evo2. I know you were not so smitten with the earlier Delta, fair enough, however the EVO2 ticks all the boxes for me, and more. It is such a special car and on a B Road, it feels invincible. It is another world compared to the Alfa.
I love the way special Italian cars give you that impression of delicate yet powerful / female beauty, yet masculine strength and aggression with their designs. This goes hand in hand with the multitonal engine note.
The 288 GTO is an excellent example of this. Even the Evo2 Delta combines successfully these contradictory qualities.
Anyway, I can talk and discuss passionately about cars for too long. I'll stop now. :-)
Maybe all the way back in the 80s with the 944 or the very early 90s with the 968 these cars WERE the best handling of their day? I`d still love a 968 Turbo though.
I agree with the gist of your argument, and I’m a huge fan of the 968. But every professional car reviewer (in fact pretty much every other UA-cam reviewer!) absolutely loves the modern Golf GTI. But I was impressed that you gave the Golf some credit and softened your original binary viewpoint.
Thanks Chris.. I trey and be honest and genuine... not being a professional means my views may not always be right but they are genuine. Thanks for watching and for your considered comment!
Chris P I suspect that whilst most reviewers *respect* the Golf GTi for being capable, safe and reliable etc, very few of them find it as brilliant as you imply. Most reviews I've seen describe it as being very competent, but less involving than contemporaries, bland and sterile. They tend to talk about the quality of the cabin etc. Liking something for being capable but unremarkable in everything but interior fit and finish is faint praise.
A Nother You’re right; my comment was a bit misleading about the Golf - sorry. But I’m still impressed by 27s honesty in his review :-)
I drove a couple of 968's before I eventually bought a 964 C2. When comparing them it's quite amazing to find that, on paper, they make the same peak power and torque. In practice it doesn't feel like that at all.
But what I do like about the 968 is that it's wider, lower and more GT-like.
964 feels more alive to me.. though obviously no where near as well balanced! Thanks for watching and for your comment Marcus !
I drive a ‘85.5 944 and will say that I don’t agree with this review of the 968. You have to know the quirks with the power on these cars and can’t be in it for the straight line speed. There are times and places for every unique car and this baby shines in the curvy mountain roads. They are incredibly solid and can be traveled in cross country, or simply to get groceries. It is a true testament to the build quality of these cars to have almost 100k miles and still look and feel brand new. This is a 35 year old car and cannot be simply quantified in words or in a single drive. You have to get to know the car and you start to have great feeling since they never step out of line. Go out and buy a cheap one and get to wrenching- you won’t be disappointed.
968’s are old cars and need to be viewed in the year they came out - given that advertised values are close to cayman’s they are over rated. Still prefer the ‘steering feel’ to one though
I do love Caymans as well, brilliant cars!! Thanks for watching and for your comment!
I enjoy watching + I’ve written a 968 off on a wat roundabout so might be bias in my comments 😆
Don't ever expect any spectacular sound from a turbo engine, as the charger chops every cylinder bang in slices. You won't figure the differences in driving behaviour on roads like that. Go a handling road with narrow hairpins and slopes. Thats were you feels the differece between the well balanced Porsche and the front heavy Golf.
The 968 is such a beautiful design
And in 10 years time, the 968 will have increased in value. And the Golf?
i went from an old porsche 924 to a modern day chevy spark, the horsepower of the 924 is 95 and the hp of a spark is 84, which one would i rather drive? well the porsche because it was a manual 4 speed!!!
MK7 GTI best sleeper out there. I'm stage 2 APR and I love the look on 911 drivers faces when I gap them.
Cool, how much does that put out? must be a fair chunk of power.Thanks for watching and for your comment Dean!
As long as the 911 isn't a turbo S. lol. In all honesty I have no chance from the dig, but it is fun being able to run with the 911's. APR says about 320 wheel hp for my car. Great review keep up the good work.
Great video, good comparison, disappointing that the 968 didn't wipe the floor with the GTI; however that's progress for you.
Thanks dude!
I own a GTI MK7 and for me being in my 50’s it’s my average guy’s affordable Porsche that doubles as a SUV or Station wagon when needed which is most of the time for me but it’s just more fun to drive than either of those ☺️
Exactly the conundrum I face! Love older cars, you have to drive them, but don’t have the inclination for the hours needed under the bonnet :) Just committed to my first mid-life crisis, and will shortly splash 20k on a sports car...so do I go for a Caterham 7 SV (newish build but old design) c. 2010 or BMW Z4M newish build and design) c. 2006?!
The Caterham will by far be the most fun.. but a pain in the butt unless you have another car you can also use? Thanks for watching and for your comment Rob!
Yep. So I’ve got my Mondeo for the commute 😂 so this is a car for Sunday :) but am I overpaying for 60’s tech when it’s the same sort of money for a Z4M or Boxster. I’ll just keep watching videos until I decide :)
Great video!
Thanks for watching and for your comment buddy!
The Variocam alone took the 968 to over 240 bhp Vs the 944 s2 211 bhp. Previous 944s were only about 150 bhp so to say the 968 was merely a facelift really is a bit ridiculous. The power didn't feel great because you just didnt rev the engine into the power band... If Walter Rohrl says it's the best handling Porsche....to that date I'm pretty sure he knows what he's saying. The issue is that you only seem to relate to rear engine, air cooled Porsches and that's fine but just means you're not able to honestly assess front engine, water cooled models objectively.
Cool comparison. I enjoy older cars, but have learned that they are old and feel a bit dated. However, they look so much better than most new car designs.
I would like you to do the same comparison but test the Golf against a Boxster S. I suspect it might do better than the 968.
Interesting idea.. I'm sure it would. Boxters and Caymans are some of the best handling cars I have ever driven. Really flatter a ham sister driver like me. Thanks for watching Fella!!
The 968 pastel purple & resale hooks me.
Chip the 968 and you'll be impressed. I chipped my 1987 944 with one from Autothority and easily blew off 5.0L Mustangs. Rev limit went from 6500 to 7500 rpm and torque was instant from idle. Had to upgrade to premium fuel to prevent dieseling. With a fuel ionizer add-on, highway mileage went from 27 to 34 mpg (38 mpg with a fuel additive) and emissions went to zero! CO, HC, & NOx were immeasurable. And this was 30 years ago! I could get 70 mpg now. I think I'll buy a 968 Sport, modify it, and make a video on the results.
Great and very enjoyable review. I have something close to this combo - a 2013 GTI and a 2008 Boxster. The GTI is a practical people/bike/stuff mover, goes well, is comfortable over long distances, and enjoyable enough to drive (the MK6's are slightly more raw than the MK7's). But when it's just me, far prefer the handling, sound, and soul of the Porsche. Being a Brit in California, being able to take the roof never gets old either. For the first time in years, I've stopped browsing the classifieds... the combo of these two seems hard to beat for $30k total.
The Boxter and Cayman are some of the best handling cars I've ever driven. amongst the best sports cars ever! Thanks for watching Russel!!
@Number27 If ever you fancy filming in California, check out some of the peer-to-peer car rental on turo.com. If you pick a day way in the future and specify manual, there are a few interesting options... maybe they'd give you some credit in return for a mention in the videos too. Thanks for a great channel!
didn't mention anything about the looks, the 968 wins by a huge margin..., and it is also a cooler car to own...
Agree on both those counts.. thanks for watching and for your comment Roberto!
the porsche has 305bhp and the gold 220bhp with performance package if it was an rs 968 it would be 350bhp the golf does a 5.9 the 968 a 4.9 to 60mph ???
I really love how you are ready to rethink stuff with new experiences!
Thanks Gabriel, glad you approve. Am trying another 968 this week though.. to see if this was a little tired..
Interesting outcome! Apparently, Porsche wanted to fit a V6 in the 944 but couldn't agree/settle on one, so they went for a 4-pot with superb balancing. By the time it had grown to 3.0 for the S2 and the 968, it was the largest capacity 4-cylinder engine in production.
I did not know about the V6 development issue, thanks for that Paul!
Number27 I’m full of useless facts like that! Are you going to the next Fairmile? I’ll say hi. (White GT3 CS)
Porsche did never try to put v6 into it. There was vw audi 2.0 and than half of 928 V8 nas that is all. Porsche did much interesting things but There is no 944 v6 and porsche didnt do it or try. If There was one it would be shown in porsche museum. Any way we know that even V8 could be put inside as there are land rover v8 swaps or LS motors in 944 these Days.
Funny when i pressed the play button i thought “ he’s going with the porsche because he owns one, and how could someone not go with the porsche “ ...
I recently saw a video of a golf used by a security company (deal with car jackings and the like) in South Africa, and thought christ i need to try one of those golfs as it looks so sharp so fast .. to date still not tried one so have little real world idea of one .
944’s & 968’s i always liked but never got excited about, even the clubsport but my heart says i’d always pick one over a faster golf just because a porsche is a porsche and a golf is ...
Admire you for coming up with a summary and conclusion i didn’t expect you to go with in praise for the golf .. i guess if your a driver you’ll always pick the car which really awards you when pushing it,even if the age gap is large between the two.
Glad you approve.. this 968 may have been a little tired but I do just say it as I feel it. am no professional reviewer though! Thanks for watching and for your comment!
The lack of steering feel is less the electric power and more the wimpy suspension bushings VW uses. I have a last generation model GTI and I replaced the rather large, not solid control arm bushings with a pair from the Audi TT and the steering feel has become quite decent. It's not informative enough to tell me the size of the pebble I just rolled over, but I do get more than enough to manage the load on the front tires while braking, or feel XDS (brake actuated limited slip) work to better use it. Also what's interesting is when I'm accelerating hard in lower gears I can feel the power steering motor stiffen up to minimize torque steer.
I wouldn't suggest to anyone that a GTI is a replacement for a proper sports car. But I would say that it's really easy, and not at all expensive to make a GTI do a really good imitation.
Interesting point there on the bushes Michael, firmer bushes do definitely help with feel as you say. Thanks for your comment for watching!
I own a 2010 gti, 2001 2.7t allroad and a 1989 2.7 944. My favorite car is the 944. Nothing like the engagement of older cars.
Totally agree that the Golf feels bland to drive, but it's still a great car to own. I now own this actual car and also an 1959 MGA which is so much more engaging and fun to drive.
However, you mentioned that the engine has been chipped and I was wondering if you could give me a few more details?
Hi, I like that you did this review, but to be honest, its very sloppy. I currently own a GTI mk7 performance edition with the adaptive suspension option, before this I had the normal version. I also owned two versions of the 968. The normal "Club Sport" and the real "CS Club Sport" (the M030 package which on other Porsche models was called 'RS').
It's not clear whether you are driving the performance edition or the normal edition of the GTI. The difference between the cars is quite big. The brakes and the electronic diff on the normal GTI are lousy where as the bigger brakes and the mechanical diff on the performance edition make ik a completely different car. Behaves very different in fast corners or on track. Really no comparison. So which are you driving? (The sound by the way is easily tuned by removing the center damper or (better, more expensive) use a special damperless end piece on the exhaust. The noise won't be too much, just racy, and you can turn off the engine sound coming through the internal speakers.)
Same goes for the 968. The difference between the 'real' 968 (which would be the 968 CS Club Sport) and the others is enormous. The CS has the big brakes, the stiffer suspension but also the 75% (!!!) diff and this diff makes it a completely different car. So which are you driving?
If you do a car review make sure you know and tell us exactly which spec you are driving.
In my memories the 968 CS Club Sport was a beast. I drove it for 4 years almost every weekend on the Nordschleiffe. The GTI performance edition I currently drive is nothing short of perfect in every way. Which makes it a bit dull, computer game-like. I find the DSG a bit clunky/rough, but it is SUPER fast, super smooth (mine is remapped to 310bhp).
The 2017 Gold models here in the Uk come as standard with the active diff.. which for me is the main thing. Aside from that this was a normal GTi but with a chip which ups power. The 968 is the Sport version, which as mentioned has the same suspension as the CS.. but not the diff you mention. For sure my videos could be clearer but I'm limited in time and so with all the filming, driving and arranging the cars it does mean that I miss out on some details. Thanks for watching and for your comment Patrick!
Ok, your welcome :) But what is 'the active diff'? The EDS (using brakes to simulate a diff) is present on ALL VAG models even the smallest, cheapest Seat. It is not at all the same as the mechanical diff (I think it is a torsen diff, not like the friction plate diff of the 968CS) on the performance edition (which is actually torque vectoring and uses EDS too). Completely different cornering behaviour and even straight line grip.
You can easily recognise the performance edition (with the mechanical diff) by the 360mm front brakes, big red calipers and the ventilated rear disc brakes. However in your video there is no clear shot of these details, so I couldn't tell. By the way the car eats his brakes likes cookies because of the interaction between diff and brakes, never ever had a car that wears his brakes down like the GTI PE.
Thanks Patrick, you obviously know your stuff! When I looked up the VAQ diff it seemed to me to be a mechanical LSD but activated hydraulically via a clutch.. so controlled electronically by the car's ECU. Thanks again for your input!
You should get both! I have a new GTI as my daily driver and a sports car for joy rides (2001 BMW M Roadster).
You're right.. this was supposed to be a not towards those than cant and have to pick just one car! Thanks for watching!
I own a 1986 944 Turbo and a 2013 Focus ST. The Focus is easier to live with, far more features (ABS, airbags, power door locks, keyless entry, stereo, etc etc etc... ) but the “analog” nature of the 944 Turbo, along with rear-wheel drive, make it a more organic driving experience. Sometimes I think cup holders exponentially reduce a car’s performance! LOL
You came to the same conclusion that i did when i test drove a 944 20 years ago and was really disappointed, it felt mediocre even compared to my Mk 3 Golf Gti that i owned at the time.Drove a few 911's the following weekend (including a track car) which put a smile on my face...
felt the same when i drove an Alfa Gtv6, left feeling terribly underwhelmed
This test may not have come up with the expected result but I think a sample of one is not going to convince me that you haven't got a point. Perhaps some more duels with a range of cars, Lotus's and Clios, a 911 and an Astra GTE, an Alpine and a Ford RS? I was intrigued to hear your description of the Golfs steering. The lifeless and un-informing steering of modern cars is a particular bugbear for me and as I have a wife who likes her Volkswagens (non-GTIs) I have assumed that the GTIs must be far superior to her cars considering the praise heaped on them .... apparently not though, they are just faster, which doesn't interest me. I want a car that drives nicely but is as economical as possible to run. Is that too much to ask?
968 92 model year, less than 10 % was common with the 944. Yes Sport was only U.K. USA equivalent add M030
Just watched this, not sure the comparison is justified. The handling you touched on not being the best, but your nowhere near Walter Rholes experience which made his opinion.
I can see what to trying to do but I don’t think it’s going to work fairly. A modern GTI compared to a modern sports car like a Z4 or the other way around 968 vs Golf vr6, might have made better sense.
Compare that GTI to a Golf R and you’d get the same disparity’s as in this test.
The 968 and any other car of that era is soft, not all that powerful and will have foam spongy seats .... not like today’s car.
I had a plus 2 lotus elan, a modern fiesta 1.0 would wipe its bum with it.... but the plus 2 is a fantastic drive for what it is.
Good you took the time to review though , it’s raised fair debate 👍
I happen to own a 08 VW R32 as well as a 94 968 Cabriolet. Both handle exceptionally well. However your comparison is essentially unfair as it is clear that the classic Porsche suspension is dated. You really can not compare a brand new gti to a vehicle with 130,000 plus miles.
True but this car is not on it's original suspension.. it has been replaced before though not sure when that was. I suspect maybe the steering arms needed attention on this car. Thanks for watching and for your comment Rudolph!