I wonder if he would have had more business success and lived longer if he didn't spend so much time on Computer Chronicles. It always felt odd that the owner of a big computer company would spend so much time on the show. Computer Chronicles promoted lots of products and services but not so much related to Gary's CP/M or Digital Research. Jack Tramiel appeared as often as I'd expect a big company owner would want.
Gary Kildall got a Milestone Award (postumous) from the IEEE mainly for having invented the BIOS. He also did an excellent windows environment for the PC called Gen long before Microsoft or IBM.
@@jessesan2003 no his jacket got him killed. He went into a biker bar wearing Harley leathers and the other people didn't like that and a fight ensued. WTF does his beard and hair have to do with that?? That's totally unrelated to the comment, and frankly it's pretty disrespectful to say about a guy who was a pioneer in the industry.
@@yellowblanka6058 I never noticed or gave it any thought all of this time. It might be one of those things bald men pick up on more than people with full heads of hair. For the record though, it is indeed majestic, I hope he paid his hair stylers well.
The Apple II's success did carry Apple for a long time. But it was never going to last forever. Apple needed to use its success to carry themselves forward to their next big success... which is exactly what they did. They tried this and failed with the Apple III, and then the Lisa, but then kind of eventually managed it with the Macintosh. Through Macintosh, Apple did what so many other computer platforms failed to do: they made it through the 1990s, most critically they made it through to the other side, to a point in time where loads of people who never used a computer before suddenly needed one, a time when compatibility with the dominant PC platform had largely ceased to be important. And I think there were a lot of users for whom "Steve Jobs' pet rock" was exactly what they needed: a platform largely unburdened by legacy of obsolete technologies, a platform that fit easily into their homes, and made things simple for them and served as an easy introduction to the world of computers. A friendly, non-threatening, helpful, and compact computer. Nothing about the Apple II, what had made it great in the past, what it became in the early 1980s, or any of the potential offered by the IIgs could have accomplished that IMO.
@@tetsujin_144 Sculley pretty much ran apple into the ground. It wasn't until Steve Jobs returned. However the Mac isn't really Apples bread winner, its the iPhone, which originated from Apple's iPod development. Mac has always existed as a second class compared to Windows & Linux. Mostly because of Apples tight grip on everything (software, hardware) & tends to only get niche user appeal.
@@telesniper2 That was the point of my earlier comment. That said very few Mac II cards were made, compared to PC cards. Mac II was limited to around a dozen of so different cards, PCs had thousands. Even the Apple II had far more cards available than the Mac II.
It was a dead end. It was an excellent choice for the first gen PCs do to its low cost and expandablity. You can run Apple II software using an emulator.
Our school's computer lab had Apple II computers in 1997. Except it had one Apple IIgs that everyone fought over because you could play Oregon Trail in color. Then we moved in with my grandparents in the middle of nowhere and the school there ('97) still had TRS-80s. Then the next school year we moved to a bigger city and the schools had Windows 95 PCs and my mind was blown. Our family had gotten a Windows 95 PC in '96, though, so I was already getting used to those. A huge upgrade from my (other) grandparents' Commodore 64 that I played tons of games on.
That one is worth more. It's Garry's Apple One, that he built into the suitcase himself that he bought personally from Woz and him and Woz made some changes to WozMon to make it more C/PM compatible as friends and tinkerers. It's a unique piece of computer history, showcasing the beginnings of C/PM and Digital Research and the early hobbies days of Apple before Jobs had sold any.
8:19 Stewart hit the nail on the head with the lack of 5.25" drive. Really the only reason anybody used the Apple ][ was because all the educational software (and games) were written for it, but they were written for 5.25". In those days, software was written specifically for the disk format, and a lot of software couldn't be ported to 3.5" without basically completely rewriting the software from scratch. Apple IIc Plus owners found they could run hardly any software at all. It turned into a huge debacle of angry customers.
Well they were right about non-volatile memory replacing disk drives... they just thought it was going to happen by 1991. We are always so ambitious in our predictions. Usually just corporate bluster that doesn't materialize! Things never change. I'm looking at you driverless cars by 2015!
You have to think like a tech company... The road-map Toshiba was following streched out decades with their early non-volatile memory. So when they said, "soon" they actually meant 10 years, or longer...
Perhaps, but spinning disks are still the majority for large storage systems. Maybe in another 10 years hard disks will be on the way out. I suspect HDDs will max out at or below 30 TB, but it still an amazing amount of capacity. I think my first HDD back in the 1980s was a 5.25 that stored about 10Mb. About 2M times more capacity for 30 years of development.
The II was a good computer - The End. There were others that were just as good, (the ST line, the Amiga, even the IBM PC's), but the Apple II was one of the main computers that everyone knew.
The copyright at the end states 1988, but this was from 1989. Note "president Bush" and the sale of Monsanto Electronic Materials Company, which was reported in the New York Times on April 1, 1989.
John Scully - dude that was brought by Steve to help apple and eventually he saved the apple from Steve and preserved it for better times for Steve to take over
No, Scully ran apple into the ground, he got booted from the company when it was near bankruptcy. Scully was just a soft drink salesman (Pepsi) & should have never been CEO. Probably One of Steve Jobs biggest mistakes.
My dad built an Apple ][ kit into a heavy printer casing. It had a single disk drive and probably could have had expansions. My dad threw it out when he moved, but he regrets doing so. It was the first computer I ever played on.
You actually had to be somewhat tech savy to use computers back in the day. These days everything has been simplified to the point anyone can use one without knowing anything about them.
The most impressive thing in this is the Sprint voice identification service when a machine compares your voice to the stored one. In 1988. I suspect they stored the FFT harmonic peaks and compared their location and magnitude to the real-time calculated one. It would be interesting to hear about that one.
This was not recorded in 88. It was later. At 25:19 the host says "President Bush...." who did not become president until Jan 20, 1989. The person elected president in Nov the previous year is never called "president" he is called "President Elect"
Anyone know if there's truth to the story that Jobs saw Woz' //GS as competition for his Macintosh and killed it by underpowering it? The //GS was on par with the Amiga while the Mac was black and white with its head bleeps and bloops.
IIgs was "on par with the Amiga" on paper only. In terms of actual performance it was a wreck, and that goes way beyond the usual "if only they had made the CPU faster" IIgs fans' lament. Hence when you take a nice Amiga game (Another World, Defender of the Crown, Lemmings, etc.) and run the IIgs version, you get a choppy slide-show... First off, the Amiga had a decently powerful CPU for its time... But the CPU was really only a small part of what made it a capable computer. The Amiga had co-processors that eased the burden on the CPU, performing tasks like moving data around in memory or doing "beam-racing" display updates, completely independent of the CPU. The IIgs had none of that. As a result updating the display was completely bounded by the CPU performance - and even relatively simple tasks like making a scrolling background would take up a substantial chunk of the CPU's time. If the IIgs had had an 8MHz CPU instead of the 2.8MHz CPU it got, updating the whole display 60 times a second would still only give it 8 instruction cycles to update each 16 bits of display memory - about enough time to load data from one place in memory, and store it somewhere else. The situation gets worse when you also consider that all the display memory on the IIgs is inside the "Mega-II" core, which runs at 1MHz, regardless of how fast the CPU is running. So no matter how fast a CPU you put in a IIgs, updating the display is slow. The best you can do is prepare a double-buffer in "fast" memory (which runs at the same speed as the CPU) and then turn on shadowing and rewrite the data to the same location to get the hardware to update the copy in *slow* display RAM (a technique known as "PEI-slamming") - but updating the whole display still takes a lot of time, almost 1/60 of a second, I think, meaning (if I'm not mistaken) the CPU can't update the whole display every frame and still have time to do anything else... regardless of how fast a CPU you might put in. (And color macs came out in 1987. They weren't cheap, and like the IIgs didn't have the kind of chipset support needed to make them really effective games machines... but 640x480, non-interlaced, 8bpp was actually quite good for the late 1980s. On par with the new VGA PCs of the time in terms of graphical capabilities. So yes, there was a period where IIgs had color and Macintosh did not, but it was brief, only about 6 months.) As for the Jobs thing... It's tricky. Both Jobs and Wozniak had left Apple by the time the IIgs came out. But decisions like that can happen well before a product actually reaches market. Also, supposedly the 65816 processor itself wasn't meeting its performance goals, and at the time (when the IIgs was in development) it was hard to get '816es reliably up to 4MHz or more. Personally I think the whole "no coprocessors, 1MHz core" thing pretty much seals the deal, the IIgs just didn't have what it took to compete (in terms of capabilities) with the likes of Amiga, and that goes beyond the whole CPU thing, it's inherent to the machine's design. Some of it is a consequence to how they implemented backward compatibility, some of it is a consequence of what (as I understand it) was Apple's general unwillingness to build systems around a lot of "custom" ICs (like all those blitters and display coprocessors in the Amiga). As I see it the IIgs' problems go way beyond the CPU.
25:45 Michael Shapiro, the newsman arrested for this crime was arrested in May of 1989. This was produced sometime after May 11, 1989 This definitely did not air in 1988.
True, one sold at auction for nearly half a million bucks. The one he had on the show was apparently borrowed from an museum. "This is literally a museum piece"
The 8-bit Guy has an excellent piece arguing that Apple *should* have pursued the IIgs (and compatibility with the Apple II) as a product path, rather than Jobs fantasy with the useless Mac.
Jobs was long gone when the //GS series started being planned. And it was Woz that ironically declined the use of the ARM RISC chip from a little known company known as Acorn in favor of the 65816.
@@oldtwinsna8347depends. Jobs was there when they were planning the Apple 2 refresh project which you could argue is the start of what became the 2GS.
@24:39 Wow, was this the planning stage of what we now call USB memory sticks? The idea of course, not the implementation. Took waaaay more than 3 years from 1988 to become standardized.. And yes, got rid of the floppy, and getting rid of the spinning CD/DVD discs.
USB thumb sticks proved to be a massive game changer. There'll always be some space for optical drives in the market to read pressed discs, but yeah, burners are a LOT less necessary.
First color printer I ever got to use was attached to a IIGS at school. That was a fun machine to play with. I loved the graphics compared to my aging C64.
Oh yeah, the IIgs was a powerhouse, a lot more like an Amiga. If Commodore had its act together back then they would have released the C65 instead of the Plus 4. The 65 would have competed with the IIgs.
It's not really related to Apple although they were involved. It's an ISO standard (ISO 9660) related to CDs. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_9660 "ISO 9660 traces its roots to the High Sierra Format,[2] which arranged file information in a dense, sequential layout to minimize nonsequential access by using a hierarchical (eight levels of directories deep) tree file system arrangement, similar to UNIX and FAT." "In November 1985, representatives of computer hardware manufacturers gathered at the High Sierra Hotel and Casino (currently called the Hard Rock Hotel and Casino) near Lake Tahoe, California.[7] This group became known as the High Sierra Group (HSG). Present at the meeting were representatives from Apple Computer, AT&T,[citation needed] Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC), Hitachi, LaserData, Microware,[citation needed] Microsoft, 3M, Philips, Reference Technology Inc., Sony Corporation, TMS Inc., VideoTools (later Meridian[8]), Xebec, and Yelick.[citation needed] The meeting report evolved from the Yellow Book CD-ROM standard for data CDs, which was so open ended it was leading to diversification and creation of many incompatible data storage methods. The High Sierra Group Proposal (HSGP) was released in May 1986."
Technology was advancing at a fast pace back then. Apple I was pretty much one of the first micro-computers, and only 10 years later the industry had advanced amazingly...
I like the part earlier in the show where the guy who formerly worked at Apple essentially admitted that the Amiga was a better machine but was hurt because of Apple's monopolistic tendencies in capturing the education market.
@@jetfrog4574 1. You do not know me. Falsely claiming that I am "willfully misinterpreting a comment" is very presumptuous of you. I did not misinterpret anything. If I did, you would have had no way to tell whether it was done unintentionally or "willfully". You not only made a very bad argument not based in facts, but you also made assumptions of me when you do not even know me. 2. Here is the actual comment from the video: 10:43 "...and I was asked why isn't the Amiga going to knock off this machine and the answer was real simple. I said I think the Amiga can knock off the Apple II if it does the following things: if it can before the next 2 months get 60% of the education market, if it can get 10,000 software programs out there, and if it can get at the time 2 and a half million loyal users to support it..." 3. The actual comment from the video proves me right. 60% of the education market. 10,000 software programs, 2.5 million loyal users. Those all support my comment and disprove yours.
@@yelapa999 1. You don't know me. 2. I never owned an Amiga. 3. You judge whole groups of people just by some people you supposedly knew. 4. You never addressed the facts in the argument I made. Instead, you childishly attacked all people who liked the Amiga. 5. That says nothing about me, nor about anyone who was, in your words, "an Amiga partisan". It says so much about you and how you judge people.
@@AdamsOlympia TL; DR. I did, however, read the first paragraph. In 1983, Apple II cost >$1200 retail. The Commodore 64 cost ~$250. Apple gave big discounts to schools, not just for the fun of it. But go ahead, believe whatever makes you feel good.
Probably from the 88-89 season. The episode itself was recorded in 1988, as the copyright notice at the and says. The news section is always recorded later, as close to broadcast as possible to be completely up to date.
The Random Access segment seems to be recorded shortly after February 7, 1989, when the sale of MEMC (Monsanto Electronic Materials Company) was approved by President Bush. The episode itself was probably taped in late 1988. I would say the air date is probably February 1989, maybe March. books.google.com/books?id=cH3tuytg3csC&pg=PA169&lpg=PA169&dq=monsanto+electronics+1989&source=bl&ots=eJ1mFzXHqS&sig=ACfU3U0-npxvwdQjsCiDh8vjxp4A1e0SlQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi04IqLtqXmAhVqUt8KHRG-CPgQ6AEwDnoECAsQAQ#v=onepage&q=monsanto%20electronics%201989&f=false www.referenceforbusiness.com/history2/60/MEMC-Electronic-Materials-Inc.html www.goupstate.com/news/19890317/monsanto-lays-off-13-as-takeover-nears December 8, 2019 12:30 am
The episode aired November 22nd 1988. Bush was inaugurated on January 20th 1989. What's being referenced is Bush winning the presidential election, which took place on November 8th, 1988, where he won against Dukakis 53.4% to 45.7%.
@@koitsu2013 Fair point. At the time of writing that comment, I didn't realize elections go that slow in the US. Where I live, it's unheard of for 10 weeks to pass between a party winning an election, and a president being inaugurated.
So apple was the 5 speed of computers. But why my Macbook pro doesn't have 5 speeds? I was waiting long time for that 2 logo sticker to go on that apple 2
Dream machine... All the mac programs and appe II programs, with a flat screen you can take on the road... "me" slaps some emulators on the notebook computer!
It was nothing personal. Steward knew that by keeping the interviews/tight and to the point: It saved on editing costs. Back then these shows were expensive to produce. Studio time was precious.
5:07 ... "the marketplace determines whether a computer will live or die." The Apple IIGS died. My last was an Apple //e clone (previous Apple ][+ clone) and then the 386 was my first in the PC world, and I never looked back. The only cool thing about the GS, IMO, was the picture of Tutankhamun. Had Sculley continued, Apple itself would have been dead too. In retrospect, I also firmly believe that Apple "clones" helped Apple and the entire market. Every PC I have had has been built never purchased from a manufacturer.
What are you talking about? The ][GS was sold until 1994. The ][C died in 1990 and the //e died in 1993. Clearly the market determined the ][GS was worth keeping around.
@@quarterburnt Your facts are wrong and backwards per Wiki. IIGS was discontinued in December 1992 [no idea how long they "sold for"] and the Apple //e in November 1993 - debunking your last sentence. But regardless, read the Wiki on reception of the IIGS - too little, too expensive and lack of developers. That is what I saw with the gaming/app market in the late 80s; I finished high school in 88 and really didn't use the Apple //e much more frankly until I made money working and then ultimately buying the 386 in 1990. Apple was dead IMO around 87-88 perhaps sooner. Last fall I actually fired up the old Apple //e - Appleworks wouldn't start; the 80col card didn't work and who knows about the TimeMaster HO card. But you can fire one up on the archive.org site or download emulators today to relive those days. I keep the old thing because it helped shape my life profoundly - but for no other reason.
I wonder if the Apple II truly could have evolved into as good as a system as Mac is today. I know with Mac they had to rewrite the whole OS and switch chipsets at least twice, would it have really made a difference if Apple had built out the Apple II instead of pursuing Mac? It seems like backwards compatibility would have been lost either way.
Nah, The Apple 2 was built around the 6502 which was a very limited processor. the 65C816 just added 16-bit support and 24bit address bus. Apple 2 GS (65C816) was released in 1986, meanwhile the first 386 (32-bit) PCs were being sold in 1986. The Apple 2 was the king for the first gen PCs, but unfortunately every first generation line ends up getting overshadowed by newer generation systems. Probably the only exception to the rule is Unix (via Linux).
@@guytech7310 The Super Famicom used a derivative of the 65c816 showing what a better chipset can do with a similar processor so it would have been very possible for the 2GS to evolve to compete with game consoles of the early 90s (where you can also do productivity on it) as by the time Super Famicon came out the 2GS could easily have had a 8Mhz processor to the Super Famicon's 3.6Mhz. After that processors like the PPC,R3000 and SuperH could easily emulate the 65c816 with a fraction of their processing power making compatibility not much of a barrier.
@@guytech7310Then just move over to a new chipset, with an interim emulation mode. "Macintosh" has had four different sets, each a completely new re-write from the bits on up.
Does anyone remember if Apple made a store demo for Apple II machines specifically for Canada? I only saw Apple IIs in stores and remember a store demo, yet none of the demos I've found so far are familiar to me. Oh well.
I'm in Canada, but ironically saw the 1986 IIGS dealer demo in the States before I bought my GS. I only recall that demo, that opened with the sax player and digitized jazz score. Could you describe the demo you remember? There was a French demo from Apple France (Translated, it's title was "Master your mouse"). Maybe you saw that? I have demo demos in my collection.
@@Apple2gs I remember a green screen, and I'm thinking more and more that it might have been a store demo, like they wrote it themselves. The store is long gone now.
Was it a IIGS-specific demo? Maybe it was "Your Tour of the Apple IIGS" you saw? If you can tell me some things you saw in the demo, I might recognize it.
@@Apple2gs Goes back too long but I distinctly remember the Apple II's case (not IIgs, I have one now and that wasn't it) and green text, it was just pages of text and simple graphics.
@@8BitNaptime - Ah, so an 8-bit Apple II demo for either the II+/e/c. Maybe it was "Apple Presents, the Apple IIe"?. If you do a quick UA-cam search, there's a 1+ minute showing it start up. See if that rings a bell. If you can't find it, I'll link it here.
I got myself a IIc last year, it's been a lot of fun. Very limited in a lot of ways ("good for late 1970s" graphics, no sound chip, etc.) but a very fun, classic machine.
Steve Jobs intentionally tanked the IIgs, which was at the time superior to the original Macintosh. Steve just couldn't bear the idea that Wozniak and his team would have success with the Apple II line going forward. He even went so far as to artificially cap the processor speed of the IIgs so that it wouldn't be faster than his Mac.
It was. And then Jobs found out that the IIGS running at "full speed" could literally rape the first Macintosh performance wise, and he conspired with Apple's marketing department to sabotage his own company's product, by artifically limiting the CPU speed of the IIGS. That guy's ego was something else - he nearly ran Apple right into the ground with the Macintosh, but could never admit he was wrong.
Eh, at best I'd say 'yes and no'. If we go by 1984 standards, probably yes. A 128K Apple II was better than a 128K Mac, because doing things "the Mac way" was more burdensome on memory and CPU than doing things the Apple II way (i.e. a word processor updating character cells in display RAM as opposed to "drawing" proportional-font characters on a bitmap framebuffer, the former is faster and takes less RAM). By those standards I would say the Apple II (and the software typically run on it) was a better fit for the hardware of the time. From what I've heard the 128K memory capacity of the original Macintosh was a serious problem, it just wasn't enough. But by Apple II standards that's actually quite a lot of memory. That said... Running a GUI was (and continues to be) good stuff. It's useful to have window management (even on an OS that only does "cooperative" multitasking) and proportional fonts and WYSIWYG, menu bars, icons, etc. Apple II could do that, too (GEOS, GS/OS, etc.) but there is value in the Mac approach, of fully committing to that model from day 1 and wrapping it all up in a convenient, compact package.
4 megahertz 😂⁉️ I wanted one of these machine when I was young only could afford a tandy color 😢 computer!? with tape deck now at 54 years old note phone and two alienware laptops?....... but I still want one for some reason? even though my phone is more powerful?... good show look at it while I was still messing with my tandy coco😁⁉️
@@Xenotypal we really didn't know how incredible it was,jeff bezos came in and said he was going to sell books on the internet,we just shook our heads not reallizing what really was happening
Killing the Apple II line is the single dumbest move Jobs and Apple ever made. And it nearly destoryed the company. I've never been a big Apple fan, especially in today's world of overpriced/underpowered, CrApple™ Eye-Candy Junk, but even I can admit the Apple II, (along with the original IBM PC), didn't just create the world of "Personal" computers - it laid out the roadmap which the tech world still follows today. Every modern advancement in computers/mobile devices can be traced right back to the Apple II and IBM PC. If Apple and Jobs had put all the time and effort into the II line that they wasted on the trainwreck that was the early Macintosh, Apple could have literally taken over the computer world, instead of ending up as what they are today - a glorified smartphone company.
Well I agree on the overpriced/underpowered shit that you said. Perhaps the glory days of Apple as computer company is gone and they prefer being known for their smart phones instead.
IIGS was a great machine, awesome graphics and sounds and a fully functioning GUI OS, II/IIe series spent over a decade to conquer the family and education market, the II series. It's doesn't make any sense why they kill the II. I can think the only reason is, Mr. Woz don't want to go play the politics game, he let Jobs kill the II by Mac. Mac can't be expanding, not like the II has expansion slots. In Jobs mind, he like every thing under his control. he don't like the third party expansion card. Just my thoughts.
@@looneyburgmusic The original Mac had higher display resolution than the IIgs. (512 x 342 vs 640 x 200) The IIgs can do 4 colors in 640x200, sure, but for a WYSIWYG word processor, the resolution is more important than the colors. And I wouldn't put too much stock in those very appealing (but dubious, IMO) tales of how awesome the IIgs would have been if only Jobs hadn't held it back. As I understand it, WDC was having problems delivering on their performance promises with the '816 processor, and IMO the IIgs has other design issues (like putting the display RAM in the 1MHz Mega-II core, lack of sprites/scrolling/blitters/etc.) that would have held it back, even if it had got an 8MHz CPU. The Apple II platform was already pretty ancient by the time the IIgs came out. At that point the platform didn't really have much to offer except a legacy of old software that would run slowly at 1MHz and incorrectly at 2.8MHz, and which looked embarrassingly dated on a machine positioned as a competitor to the Amiga and ST.
John Sculley - the clown that pushed Steve Jobs out of Apple and nearly killed the company. The typical management guy that takes over a company, thinks he knows what is he doing, but ultimately drives it into the ground, because he does not understand the soul of the product and just competes on numbers. Somehow this reminds me of Tim Cook today, although it's not Cook's fault he ended up at the helm this time.
@@alangiles4616 When you deal with idiots like Scully, arrogance is absolutely mandatory! Steve Jobs CREATES a market - home and school personal computers. He perfectly understands what it needs - aesthetics and ease of use - and this makes him the youngest and one of the fastest successes in business, he's valued at $200 million at the age of 25. His success gives him access to Xerox labs where he spots the graphical user interface (GUI) - the next breakthrough in computers and is convinced this is how all computers will work. And that's how they DO work today! (it was text consoles at the time) Apple create a product with GUI, but it is expensive and needs more marketting. Instead, here comes corporate guy, Scully, from PEPSI, and insists he knows better how to drive a COMPUTER company?!? Convinces the board to kick out Jobs and licenses the breakthrough GUI technology to Microsoft (who are developing software for Apple at the time and also see the potential) ?!? From this point on Microsoft is launched into the stratosphere and Bill Gates is laughing to this day, while Scully proves to be the dumbest man in history!!! In only the next 2 years the kicked-out Jobs creates 2 more successful companies - Pixar and NeXT - proving that he's got the vision and market sense. We're not even talking about his later market breakthroughs - portable music for the masses (iPad and iTunes), usable smart phones for the masses (iPhone and Appstore) and usable tablets.
I think Tim Cook is doing fairly well at 10 years on after Jobs died, my M2 MacBook absolutely rocks compared to what I was using in the Windows 10 world
back when people from Apple were CLUELESS.. !! That woman is a joke talking about diskettes. That machine was obsolete by years, yet they act like its cutting edge.
John Sculley. What a total failure he was lol almost destroyed Apple. He was terrible. I mean really, coming in and ousting Jobs who co-made the company? Who did he think he was? How arrogant do you have to be to do something like that, man?
It served Jobs very well. He later reflected he had no idea how to manage an entire company. Recall that his experience at Apple was managing the Mac division. Hell of a difference. At NeXT he saw the real situation where you don't make money, you don't make payroll and you have to let people go. He had to figure out where the correct strategic vision would be and to be held accountable for it. At Apple, his prior failures with the Lisa and the Apple /// series was just an "oh well" situation. He had zero room to do the same at NeXT.
@@oldtwinsna8347 Exactly, Apple might not have become the incredibly successful company it is today if it wasn't for this. Apple just as well could have gone under like so many other companies in that era.
Good ole Gary Kildall, he really brought genuine enthusiasm and levity to the show. RIP Gary.
Was a nice guy that fell victm to the house entrances guy. Port and Caxilhos guy.
I wonder if he would have had more business success and lived longer if he didn't spend so much time on Computer Chronicles. It always felt odd that the owner of a big computer company would spend so much time on the show. Computer Chronicles promoted lots of products and services but not so much related to Gary's CP/M or Digital Research. Jack Tramiel appeared as often as I'd expect a big company owner would want.
@@evhvariac2 I don't own a big company and basically no one else depends on my income so my time can harmlessly be spent with less focus.
Gary Kildall got a Milestone Award (postumous) from the IEEE mainly for having invented the BIOS. He also did an excellent windows environment for the PC called Gen long before Microsoft or IBM.
Gary Kildall's beard and haircut absolutely wouldn't look out of place today.
The look killed him at a bike gang bar.
@@jessesan2003 no his jacket got him killed. He went into a biker bar wearing Harley leathers and the other people didn't like that and a fight ensued. WTF does his beard and hair have to do with that?? That's totally unrelated to the comment, and frankly it's pretty disrespectful to say about a guy who was a pioneer in the industry.
Nice contribution.
Or today
What a majestic combover.
He still has it, lol, not sure who he thought he was fooling.
@@yellowblanka6058 looked good enough on low-resolution TV, I guess
@@yellowblanka6058 I never noticed or gave it any thought all of this time. It might be one of those things bald men pick up on more than people with full heads of hair. For the record though, it is indeed majestic, I hope he paid his hair stylers well.
What all other combovers strive to be.
John Sculley lying through his teeth. The Apple II bankrolled Apple into the 90s. The Mac was Job's pet rock.
The Apple II's success did carry Apple for a long time. But it was never going to last forever. Apple needed to use its success to carry themselves forward to their next big success... which is exactly what they did. They tried this and failed with the Apple III, and then the Lisa, but then kind of eventually managed it with the Macintosh.
Through Macintosh, Apple did what so many other computer platforms failed to do: they made it through the 1990s, most critically they made it through to the other side, to a point in time where loads of people who never used a computer before suddenly needed one, a time when compatibility with the dominant PC platform had largely ceased to be important. And I think there were a lot of users for whom "Steve Jobs' pet rock" was exactly what they needed: a platform largely unburdened by legacy of obsolete technologies, a platform that fit easily into their homes, and made things simple for them and served as an easy introduction to the world of computers. A friendly, non-threatening, helpful, and compact computer.
Nothing about the Apple II, what had made it great in the past, what it became in the early 1980s, or any of the potential offered by the IIgs could have accomplished that IMO.
@@tetsujin_144 Sculley pretty much ran apple into the ground. It wasn't until Steve Jobs returned. However the Mac isn't really Apples bread winner, its the iPhone, which originated from Apple's iPod development. Mac has always existed as a second class compared to Windows & Linux. Mostly because of Apples tight grip on everything (software, hardware) & tends to only get niche user appeal.
@@guytech7310 Well that wasn't as true in the Mac II era. There were plenty of third party cards, accelerators, and hell even clones.
@@telesniper2 That was the point of my earlier comment. That said very few Mac II cards were made, compared to PC cards. Mac II was limited to around a dozen of so different cards, PCs had thousands. Even the Apple II had far more cards available than the Mac II.
The IIgs was a weak 8bit unit. The Mac II, specifically starting with the IIvx, was far superior
Apple II GS is gonna blow the Mac outta the water! I can't wait! I'm so happy to see that Apple won't abandon the customers who made them successful.
heavy sarcasm indeed
The Apple IIGS should have been more than it was.
They slowed it down the Mhz on purpose to stop it from cutting in to Mac sales. The IIGS should have been a run away winner.
God I wish Apple was still making an Apple II of some sort.
A full speed 65816 at the time and no Mac and it would probably be around today still!
It was a dead end. It was an excellent choice for the first gen PCs do to its low cost and expandablity. You can run Apple II software using an emulator.
what an excellent well produced show..
An Apple 1 like Stew had there sold at auction for nearly half a million bucks.
Our school's computer lab had Apple II computers in 1997. Except it had one Apple IIgs that everyone fought over because you could play Oregon Trail in color. Then we moved in with my grandparents in the middle of nowhere and the school there ('97) still had TRS-80s. Then the next school year we moved to a bigger city and the schools had Windows 95 PCs and my mind was blown.
Our family had gotten a Windows 95 PC in '96, though, so I was already getting used to those.
A huge upgrade from my (other) grandparents' Commodore 64 that I played tons of games on.
IIgs and IIcPlus are two of the best looking computers
I loved my Apple IICPlus! First computer I ever owned. Learned BASIC on it.
for looks, I preferred the commodore 64C and the 128.
Did we ever find out if the Nintendo game concept contest ever produced an actual Nintendo game?
1:22 this guy just literally has an apple 1, their now worth like $500,000…
That one is worth more. It's Garry's Apple One, that he built into the suitcase himself that he bought personally from Woz and him and Woz made some changes to WozMon to make it more C/PM compatible as friends and tinkerers.
It's a unique piece of computer history, showcasing the beginnings of C/PM and Digital Research and the early hobbies days of Apple before Jobs had sold any.
They did not know it back in 1988 but that briefcase had a few hundred thousand dollars in it.
Only 60 - 70 of them left. I wonder if that's one of them.
For a written transcript of today’s episode, just write down everything we say.
@MichaelKingsfordGray I think it was a joke.
The Apple IIGS was our family's first personal computer when I was a kid. Battle Chess was my favorite program 🙂
Laura Kurihara inadvertently showed off all of the flaws of the Apple IIc+
8:19 Stewart hit the nail on the head with the lack of 5.25" drive. Really the only reason anybody used the Apple ][ was because all the educational software (and games) were written for it, but they were written for 5.25". In those days, software was written specifically for the disk format, and a lot of software couldn't be ported to 3.5" without basically completely rewriting the software from scratch. Apple IIc Plus owners found they could run hardly any software at all. It turned into a huge debacle of angry customers.
Our first home computer was a IIgs, with ImageWriter II and 4 daisy chained floppies: 2 5.25 and 2 3.5 inch drives. I learned BASIC on it, as a kid.
Well they were right about non-volatile memory replacing disk drives... they just thought it was going to happen by 1991. We are always so ambitious in our predictions. Usually just corporate bluster that doesn't materialize! Things never change. I'm looking at you driverless cars by 2015!
You have to think like a tech company... The road-map Toshiba was following streched out decades with their early non-volatile memory. So when they said, "soon" they actually meant 10 years, or longer...
Perhaps, but spinning disks are still the majority for large storage systems. Maybe in another 10 years hard disks will be on the way out. I suspect HDDs will max out at or below 30 TB, but it still an amazing amount of capacity. I think my first HDD back in the 1980s was a 5.25 that stored about 10Mb. About 2M times more capacity for 30 years of development.
Amazing how much staying power some of these computers had. Even now Apple 2 is popular for people to emulate.
I've emulated it from time to time, it's a great machine even in a virtual form :)
The II was a good computer - The End. There were others that were just as good, (the ST line, the Amiga, even the IBM PC's), but the Apple II was one of the main computers that everyone knew.
the ti 99/4a 🤭
@@looneyburgmusic Because it was in nearly every single grade school classroom, along with that timeless classic game, Oregon Trail. ;)
The copyright at the end states 1988, but this was from 1989. Note "president Bush" and the sale of Monsanto Electronic Materials Company, which was reported in the New York Times on April 1, 1989.
John Scully - dude that was brought by Steve to help apple and eventually he saved the apple from Steve and preserved it for better times for Steve to take over
No, Scully ran apple into the ground, he got booted from the company when it was near bankruptcy. Scully was just a soft drink salesman (Pepsi) & should have never been CEO. Probably One of Steve Jobs biggest mistakes.
Math and Word Blaster. Used to play the hell out of those back in the day haven't thought of them in YEARS.
My dad built an Apple ][ kit into a heavy printer casing. It had a single disk drive and probably could have had expansions. My dad threw it out when he moved, but he regrets doing so. It was the first computer I ever played on.
Man people who used PC's back then new WAY more about them than most people do today. Which is a real shame.
You actually had to be somewhat tech savy to use computers back in the day. These days everything has been simplified to the point anyone can use one without knowing anything about them.
The most impressive thing in this is the Sprint voice identification service when a machine compares your voice to the stored one. In 1988. I suspect they stored the FFT harmonic peaks and compared their location and magnitude to the real-time calculated one. It would be interesting to hear about that one.
This was not recorded in 88. It was later. At 25:19 the host says "President Bush...." who did not become president until Jan 20, 1989. The person elected president in Nov the previous year is never called "president" he is called "President Elect"
21:32 oh no he referred to the computer itself as a cpu. I remember when that was a thing.
Anyone know if there's truth to the story that Jobs saw Woz' //GS as competition for his Macintosh and killed it by underpowering it?
The //GS was on par with the Amiga while the Mac was black and white with its head bleeps and bloops.
None, considering Jobs was already long gone from the company by then.
@@oldtwinsna8347 Wozniak is awesome, here in San Jose there is a street named after him, Woz Way. :)
IIgs was "on par with the Amiga" on paper only. In terms of actual performance it was a wreck, and that goes way beyond the usual "if only they had made the CPU faster" IIgs fans' lament. Hence when you take a nice Amiga game (Another World, Defender of the Crown, Lemmings, etc.) and run the IIgs version, you get a choppy slide-show...
First off, the Amiga had a decently powerful CPU for its time... But the CPU was really only a small part of what made it a capable computer. The Amiga had co-processors that eased the burden on the CPU, performing tasks like moving data around in memory or doing "beam-racing" display updates, completely independent of the CPU. The IIgs had none of that. As a result updating the display was completely bounded by the CPU performance - and even relatively simple tasks like making a scrolling background would take up a substantial chunk of the CPU's time. If the IIgs had had an 8MHz CPU instead of the 2.8MHz CPU it got, updating the whole display 60 times a second would still only give it 8 instruction cycles to update each 16 bits of display memory - about enough time to load data from one place in memory, and store it somewhere else.
The situation gets worse when you also consider that all the display memory on the IIgs is inside the "Mega-II" core, which runs at 1MHz, regardless of how fast the CPU is running. So no matter how fast a CPU you put in a IIgs, updating the display is slow. The best you can do is prepare a double-buffer in "fast" memory (which runs at the same speed as the CPU) and then turn on shadowing and rewrite the data to the same location to get the hardware to update the copy in *slow* display RAM (a technique known as "PEI-slamming") - but updating the whole display still takes a lot of time, almost 1/60 of a second, I think, meaning (if I'm not mistaken) the CPU can't update the whole display every frame and still have time to do anything else... regardless of how fast a CPU you might put in.
(And color macs came out in 1987. They weren't cheap, and like the IIgs didn't have the kind of chipset support needed to make them really effective games machines... but 640x480, non-interlaced, 8bpp was actually quite good for the late 1980s. On par with the new VGA PCs of the time in terms of graphical capabilities. So yes, there was a period where IIgs had color and Macintosh did not, but it was brief, only about 6 months.)
As for the Jobs thing... It's tricky. Both Jobs and Wozniak had left Apple by the time the IIgs came out. But decisions like that can happen well before a product actually reaches market. Also, supposedly the 65816 processor itself wasn't meeting its performance goals, and at the time (when the IIgs was in development) it was hard to get '816es reliably up to 4MHz or more. Personally I think the whole "no coprocessors, 1MHz core" thing pretty much seals the deal, the IIgs just didn't have what it took to compete (in terms of capabilities) with the likes of Amiga, and that goes beyond the whole CPU thing, it's inherent to the machine's design. Some of it is a consequence to how they implemented backward compatibility, some of it is a consequence of what (as I understand it) was Apple's general unwillingness to build systems around a lot of "custom" ICs (like all those blitters and display coprocessors in the Amiga). As I see it the IIgs' problems go way beyond the CPU.
25:45 Michael Shapiro, the newsman arrested for this crime was arrested in May of 1989. This was produced sometime after May 11, 1989 This definitely did not air in 1988.
That Apple I would sell for hundreds of thousands of dollars today.
It was Gary's Apple One too, which would likely affect the price given its history.
True, one sold at auction for nearly half a million bucks.
The one he had on the show was apparently borrowed from an museum. "This is literally a museum piece"
Very cool!!
Thanks for posting it!
The 8-bit Guy has an excellent piece arguing that Apple *should* have pursued the IIgs (and compatibility with the Apple II) as a product path, rather than Jobs fantasy with the useless Mac.
Jobs was long gone when the //GS series started being planned. And it was Woz that ironically declined the use of the ARM RISC chip from a little known company known as Acorn in favor of the 65816.
@@oldtwinsna8347 Jobs didn't personally kill the GS no, but the effort/emphasis he put on the all-Mac strategy cost the company 10 years.
Jobs should have listened to Jeff Raskin and left the first three macintosh models as internal prototypes.
@@oldtwinsna8347depends. Jobs was there when they were planning the Apple 2 refresh project which you could argue is the start of what became the 2GS.
@24:39 Wow, was this the planning stage of what we now call USB memory sticks? The idea of course, not the implementation. Took waaaay more than 3 years from 1988 to become standardized.. And yes, got rid of the floppy, and getting rid of the spinning CD/DVD discs.
USB thumb sticks proved to be a massive game changer. There'll always be some space for optical drives in the market to read pressed discs, but yeah, burners are a LOT less necessary.
SSD as well imo. She talks about replacing hard drives as well as floppies.
First color printer I ever got to use was attached to a IIGS at school. That was a fun machine to play with. I loved the graphics compared to my aging C64.
ImageWriter II 😃
Oh yeah, the IIgs was a powerhouse, a lot more like an Amiga. If Commodore had its act together back then they would have released the C65 instead of the Plus 4. The 65 would have competed with the IIgs.
Thnak you for the video!
17:17 Did she just say High Sierra? Man these Apple names go far back in time lol
CrApple™ has never been known for their imaginations...
Apple was involved, but it wasn't an Apple name.
It's not really related to Apple although they were involved. It's an ISO standard (ISO 9660) related to CDs.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_9660
"ISO 9660 traces its roots to the High Sierra Format,[2] which arranged file information in a dense, sequential layout to minimize nonsequential access by using a hierarchical (eight levels of directories deep) tree file system arrangement, similar to UNIX and FAT."
"In November 1985, representatives of computer hardware manufacturers gathered at the High Sierra Hotel and Casino (currently called the Hard Rock Hotel and Casino) near Lake Tahoe, California.[7] This group became known as the High Sierra Group (HSG). Present at the meeting were representatives from Apple Computer, AT&T,[citation needed] Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC), Hitachi, LaserData, Microware,[citation needed] Microsoft, 3M, Philips, Reference Technology Inc., Sony Corporation, TMS Inc., VideoTools (later Meridian[8]), Xebec, and Yelick.[citation needed] The meeting report evolved from the Yellow Book CD-ROM standard for data CDs, which was so open ended it was leading to diversification and creation of many incompatible data storage methods. The High Sierra Group Proposal (HSGP) was released in May 1986."
if he knew that apple one would be worth gold nowadays...
Gary Kildal was my Golden Boy.
Get that woman a mouse pad!!
ha "its only 10 years old"
Technology was advancing at a fast pace back then. Apple I was pretty much one of the first micro-computers, and only 10 years later the industry had advanced amazingly...
Even now tech still flies...10 years ago..in 2007 the iPhone jsut came out on the market..there wasn't much like it before that.
Gary was a hipster before it was cool.
I like the part earlier in the show where the guy who formerly worked at Apple essentially admitted that the Amiga was a better machine but was hurt because of Apple's monopolistic tendencies in capturing the education market.
Talk about willfully misinterpreting a comment.
@@jetfrog4574 1. You do not know me. Falsely claiming that I am "willfully misinterpreting a comment" is very presumptuous of you. I did not misinterpret anything. If I did, you would have had no way to tell whether it was done unintentionally or "willfully". You not only made a very bad argument not based in facts, but you also made assumptions of me when you do not even know me.
2. Here is the actual comment from the video: 10:43 "...and I was asked why isn't the Amiga going to knock off this machine and the answer was real simple. I said I think the Amiga can knock off the Apple II if it does the following things: if it can before the next 2 months get 60% of the education market, if it can get 10,000 software programs out there, and if it can get at the time 2 and a half million loyal users to support it..."
3. The actual comment from the video proves me right. 60% of the education market. 10,000 software programs, 2.5 million loyal users. Those all support my comment and disprove yours.
Some of the most bitter people I met back in the day were Amiga partisans. Still bitter, eh?
@@yelapa999 1. You don't know me. 2. I never owned an Amiga. 3. You judge whole groups of people just by some people you supposedly knew. 4. You never addressed the facts in the argument I made. Instead, you childishly attacked all people who liked the Amiga. 5. That says nothing about me, nor about anyone who was, in your words, "an Amiga partisan". It says so much about you and how you judge people.
@@AdamsOlympia TL; DR. I did, however, read the first paragraph. In 1983, Apple II cost >$1200 retail. The Commodore 64 cost ~$250. Apple gave big discounts to schools, not just for the fun of it. But go ahead, believe whatever makes you feel good.
The Random Access segment mentions a president Bush. He was the president from '89 to '93, so this would be an '89 episode, not '88.
Probably from the 88-89 season. The episode itself was recorded in 1988, as the copyright notice at the and says. The news section is always recorded later, as close to broadcast as possible to be completely up to date.
The Random Access segment seems to be recorded shortly after February 7, 1989, when the sale of MEMC (Monsanto Electronic Materials Company) was approved by President Bush. The episode itself was probably taped in late 1988. I would say the air date is probably February 1989, maybe March.
books.google.com/books?id=cH3tuytg3csC&pg=PA169&lpg=PA169&dq=monsanto+electronics+1989&source=bl&ots=eJ1mFzXHqS&sig=ACfU3U0-npxvwdQjsCiDh8vjxp4A1e0SlQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi04IqLtqXmAhVqUt8KHRG-CPgQ6AEwDnoECAsQAQ#v=onepage&q=monsanto%20electronics%201989&f=false
www.referenceforbusiness.com/history2/60/MEMC-Electronic-Materials-Inc.html
www.goupstate.com/news/19890317/monsanto-lays-off-13-as-takeover-nears
December 8, 2019 12:30 am
The episode aired November 22nd 1988. Bush was inaugurated on January 20th 1989. What's being referenced is Bush winning the presidential election, which took place on November 8th, 1988, where he won against Dukakis 53.4% to 45.7%.
@@koitsu2013 Fair point. At the time of writing that comment, I didn't realize elections go that slow in the US. Where I live, it's unheard of for 10 weeks to pass between a party winning an election, and a president being inaugurated.
Damn, I wonder where that briefcase Apple I is now.
Am excite for to come out
So apple was the 5 speed of computers. But why my Macbook pro doesn't have 5 speeds? I was waiting long time for that 2 logo sticker to go on that apple 2
Dream machine... All the mac programs and appe II programs, with a flat screen you can take on the road...
"me" slaps some emulators on the notebook computer!
anne is bae, total wife material
Cynthia Steele...now and forever.
Anne Bachtold is totally unphased when Stewart Cheifet tries to talk over her.
It was nothing personal. Steward knew that by keeping the interviews/tight and to the point: It saved on editing costs. Back then these shows were expensive to produce. Studio time was precious.
I think Gary liked Anne Bachtold
Nostalgia is high with the old intro music.
lol I played math blaster when I was a kid 7:54
5:07 ... "the marketplace determines whether a computer will live or die." The Apple IIGS died. My last was an Apple //e clone (previous Apple ][+ clone) and then the 386 was my first in the PC world, and I never looked back. The only cool thing about the GS, IMO, was the picture of Tutankhamun. Had Sculley continued, Apple itself would have been dead too. In retrospect, I also firmly believe that Apple "clones" helped Apple and the entire market. Every PC I have had has been built never purchased from a manufacturer.
What are you talking about? The ][GS was sold until 1994. The ][C died in 1990 and the //e died in 1993.
Clearly the market determined the ][GS was worth keeping around.
@@quarterburnt Your facts are wrong and backwards per Wiki. IIGS was discontinued in December 1992 [no idea how long they "sold for"] and the Apple //e in November 1993 - debunking your last sentence. But regardless, read the Wiki on reception of the IIGS - too little, too expensive and lack of developers. That is what I saw with the gaming/app market in the late 80s; I finished high school in 88 and really didn't use the Apple //e much more frankly until I made money working and then ultimately buying the 386 in 1990. Apple was dead IMO around 87-88 perhaps sooner. Last fall I actually fired up the old Apple //e - Appleworks wouldn't start; the 80col card didn't work and who knows about the TimeMaster HO card. But you can fire one up on the archive.org site or download emulators today to relive those days. I keep the old thing because it helped shape my life profoundly - but for no other reason.
I wonder if the Apple II truly could have evolved into as good as a system as Mac is today. I know with Mac they had to rewrite the whole OS and switch chipsets at least twice, would it have really made a difference if Apple had built out the Apple II instead of pursuing Mac? It seems like backwards compatibility would have been lost either way.
Nah, The Apple 2 was built around the 6502 which was a very limited processor. the 65C816 just added 16-bit support and 24bit address bus. Apple 2 GS (65C816) was released in 1986, meanwhile the first 386 (32-bit) PCs were being sold in 1986. The Apple 2 was the king for the first gen PCs, but unfortunately every first generation line ends up getting overshadowed by newer generation systems. Probably the only exception to the rule is Unix (via Linux).
@@guytech7310 The Super Famicom used a derivative of the 65c816 showing what a better chipset can do with a similar processor so it would have been very possible for the 2GS to evolve to compete with game consoles of the early 90s (where you can also do productivity on it) as by the time Super Famicon came out the 2GS could easily have had a 8Mhz processor to the Super Famicon's 3.6Mhz. After that processors like the PPC,R3000 and SuperH could easily emulate the 65c816 with a fraction of their processing power making compatibility not much of a barrier.
@@guytech7310Then just move over to a new chipset, with an interim emulation mode. "Macintosh" has had four different sets, each a completely new re-write from the bits on up.
Does anyone remember if Apple made a store demo for Apple II machines specifically for Canada? I only saw Apple IIs in stores and remember a store demo, yet none of the demos I've found so far are familiar to me. Oh well.
I'm in Canada, but ironically saw the 1986 IIGS dealer demo in the States before I bought my GS.
I only recall that demo, that opened with the sax player and digitized jazz score. Could you describe the demo you remember? There was a French demo from Apple France (Translated, it's title was "Master your mouse"). Maybe you saw that? I have demo demos in my collection.
@@Apple2gs I remember a green screen, and I'm thinking more and more that it might have been a store demo, like they wrote it themselves. The store is long gone now.
Was it a IIGS-specific demo? Maybe it was "Your Tour of the Apple IIGS" you saw?
If you can tell me some things you saw in the demo, I might recognize it.
@@Apple2gs Goes back too long but I distinctly remember the Apple II's case (not IIgs, I have one now and that wasn't it) and green text, it was just pages of text and simple graphics.
@@8BitNaptime - Ah, so an 8-bit Apple II demo for either the II+/e/c. Maybe it was "Apple Presents, the Apple IIe"?. If you do a quick UA-cam search, there's a 1+ minute showing it start up. See if that rings a bell. If you can't find it, I'll link it here.
I would still like an Apple ][e
Don't you mean Apple //e?
Or perhaps you're thinking of an Apple ][ or ][+?
I got myself a IIc last year, it's been a lot of fun. Very limited in a lot of ways ("good for late 1970s" graphics, no sound chip, etc.) but a very fun, classic machine.
Steve Jobs intentionally tanked the IIgs, which was at the time superior to the original Macintosh. Steve just couldn't bear the idea that Wozniak and his team would have success with the Apple II line going forward. He even went so far as to artificially cap the processor speed of the IIgs so that it wouldn't be faster than his Mac.
I still think the Apple II series was better than the Macintosh.
It was.
And then Jobs found out that the IIGS running at "full speed" could literally rape the first Macintosh performance wise, and he conspired with Apple's marketing department to sabotage his own company's product, by artifically limiting the CPU speed of the IIGS.
That guy's ego was something else - he nearly ran Apple right into the ground with the Macintosh, but could never admit he was wrong.
Eh, at best I'd say 'yes and no'.
If we go by 1984 standards, probably yes. A 128K Apple II was better than a 128K Mac, because doing things "the Mac way" was more burdensome on memory and CPU than doing things the Apple II way (i.e. a word processor updating character cells in display RAM as opposed to "drawing" proportional-font characters on a bitmap framebuffer, the former is faster and takes less RAM). By those standards I would say the Apple II (and the software typically run on it) was a better fit for the hardware of the time. From what I've heard the 128K memory capacity of the original Macintosh was a serious problem, it just wasn't enough. But by Apple II standards that's actually quite a lot of memory.
That said... Running a GUI was (and continues to be) good stuff. It's useful to have window management (even on an OS that only does "cooperative" multitasking) and proportional fonts and WYSIWYG, menu bars, icons, etc. Apple II could do that, too (GEOS, GS/OS, etc.) but there is value in the Mac approach, of fully committing to that model from day 1 and wrapping it all up in a convenient, compact package.
24:26 Early flash memory?
EEPROM
Funny how they thought the graphics on the new iic were so great. We are light years from that today. Lol 😂
Yeah, Apple II is nice and all, but it’s certainly no match for an Amiga!
All-inclusive adoration for both! Those days were special.
I say orange.
Wat?
4 megahertz 😂⁉️ I wanted one of these machine when I was young only could afford a tandy color 😢 computer!? with tape deck now at 54 years old note phone and two alienware laptops?....... but I still want one for some reason? even though my phone is more powerful?... good show look at it while I was still messing with my tandy coco😁⁉️
Kildall was most definitely drunk during this taping.
He looked pretty composed. How can you tell ? JW
i was there and he was not...@MichaelKingsfordGray
@@123zappafan what was it like to be there?
@@Xenotypal we really didn't know how incredible it was,jeff bezos came in and said he was going to sell books on the internet,we just shook our heads not reallizing what really was happening
I concur. Unfortunately.
The only Apple //GS users I knew were rich brat kids who were total douche bags when everyone else had commodore 64s.
@no name I had an Atari 800XL when growing up in the 80s. I still have it.. still works last time I used it. I didn't get a PC until late 90s.
3:03 He’s talking about Steve Jobs, John Scully is a dirty mofo for saying that and pushing Steve Jobs out of his own company. 😡
11:44 Words women of the 80s never said to their coked out boyfriends.
Killing the Apple II line is the single dumbest move Jobs and Apple ever made. And it nearly destoryed the company.
I've never been a big Apple fan, especially in today's world of overpriced/underpowered, CrApple™ Eye-Candy Junk, but even I can admit the Apple II, (along with the original IBM PC), didn't just create the world of "Personal" computers - it laid out the roadmap which the tech world still follows today. Every modern advancement in computers/mobile devices can be traced right back to the Apple II and IBM PC. If Apple and Jobs had put all the time and effort into the II line that they wasted on the trainwreck that was the early Macintosh, Apple could have literally taken over the computer world, instead of ending up as what they are today - a glorified smartphone company.
Well I agree on the overpriced/underpowered shit that you said. Perhaps the glory days of Apple as computer company is gone and they prefer being known for their smart phones instead.
IIGS was a great machine, awesome graphics and sounds and a fully functioning GUI OS, II/IIe series spent over a decade to conquer the family and education market, the II series. It's doesn't make any sense why they kill the II.
I can think the only reason is, Mr. Woz don't want to go play the politics game, he let Jobs kill the II by Mac.
Mac can't be expanding, not like the II has expansion slots. In Jobs mind, he like every thing under his control. he don't like the third party expansion card.
Just my thoughts.
@@jasper2virtual Exactly. The IIGS outmatched the original Mac in every category, but Jobs couldn't allow that to happen to he ordered it be crippled.
@@looneyburgmusic The original Mac had higher display resolution than the IIgs. (512 x 342 vs 640 x 200) The IIgs can do 4 colors in 640x200, sure, but for a WYSIWYG word processor, the resolution is more important than the colors.
And I wouldn't put too much stock in those very appealing (but dubious, IMO) tales of how awesome the IIgs would have been if only Jobs hadn't held it back. As I understand it, WDC was having problems delivering on their performance promises with the '816 processor, and IMO the IIgs has other design issues (like putting the display RAM in the 1MHz Mega-II core, lack of sprites/scrolling/blitters/etc.) that would have held it back, even if it had got an 8MHz CPU.
The Apple II platform was already pretty ancient by the time the IIgs came out. At that point the platform didn't really have much to offer except a legacy of old software that would run slowly at 1MHz and incorrectly at 2.8MHz, and which looked embarrassingly dated on a machine positioned as a competitor to the Amiga and ST.
@@looneyburgmusic Nonsense. Jobs was fired before the //GS project even started.
John Sculley - the clown that pushed Steve Jobs out of Apple and nearly killed the company.
The typical management guy that takes over a company, thinks he knows what is he doing, but ultimately drives it into the ground, because he does not understand the soul of the product and just competes on numbers.
Somehow this reminds me of Tim Cook today, although it's not Cook's fault he ended up at the helm this time.
J C I think Steve Jobs own arrogance helped his exit - he really came over as a very unpleasant bully, however clever he undoubtably was
@@alangiles4616 When you deal with idiots like Scully, arrogance is absolutely mandatory!
Steve Jobs CREATES a market - home and school personal computers. He perfectly understands what it needs - aesthetics and ease of use - and this makes him the youngest and one of the fastest successes in business, he's valued at $200 million at the age of 25.
His success gives him access to Xerox labs where he spots the graphical user interface (GUI) - the next breakthrough in computers and is convinced this is how all computers will work. And that's how they DO work today!
(it was text consoles at the time)
Apple create a product with GUI, but it is expensive and needs more marketting.
Instead, here comes corporate guy, Scully, from PEPSI, and insists he knows better how to drive a COMPUTER company?!?
Convinces the board to kick out Jobs and licenses the breakthrough GUI technology to Microsoft (who are developing software for Apple at the time and also see the potential) ?!?
From this point on Microsoft is launched into the stratosphere and Bill Gates is laughing to this day, while Scully proves to be the dumbest man in history!!!
In only the next 2 years the kicked-out Jobs creates 2 more successful companies - Pixar and NeXT - proving that he's got the vision and market sense.
We're not even talking about his later market breakthroughs - portable music for the masses (iPad and iTunes), usable smart phones for the masses (iPhone and Appstore) and usable tablets.
I think Tim Cook is doing fairly well at 10 years on after Jobs died, my M2 MacBook absolutely rocks compared to what I was using in the Windows 10 world
"It was the Apple 2 that started the company." Errrrr....No. It was the Apple 1. Obviously. Durr!
back when people from Apple were CLUELESS.. !! That woman is a joke talking about diskettes. That machine was obsolete by years, yet they act like its cutting edge.
John Sculley. What a total failure he was lol almost destroyed Apple. He was terrible. I mean really, coming in and ousting Jobs who co-made the company? Who did he think he was? How arrogant do you have to be to do something like that, man?
Jobs himself has said that he needed to 'go away' and learn to manage a company.
Sometimes the best thing a company can do is oust one of its founders.
As bad as Sculley was, him and Jobs were as arrogant as each other.
It served Jobs very well. He later reflected he had no idea how to manage an entire company. Recall that his experience at Apple was managing the Mac division. Hell of a difference. At NeXT he saw the real situation where you don't make money, you don't make payroll and you have to let people go. He had to figure out where the correct strategic vision would be and to be held accountable for it. At Apple, his prior failures with the Lisa and the Apple /// series was just an "oh well" situation. He had zero room to do the same at NeXT.
@@oldtwinsna8347 Exactly, Apple might not have become the incredibly successful company it is today if it wasn't for this. Apple just as well could have gone under like so many other companies in that era.