Bob, These series that you have done with the University of Georgia team has done more to help beekeepers understand mites and the best ways to deal with them than any other sources of information I have seen to date, Thanks again!
Hard work and sharing yourself/colonies/wealth makes this all possible. Thanks for your willingness to share that and the information concerning the studies/trials
Well, there ya go. Part 1 and 2 get right to the point and show the results. I have followed Ms. Berry from my start in beekeeping; her, Duplaine, and Ellis. Not to slight my newer favorite from here in the USDA bee lab in Louisiana and now at MSU, Dr. Jeff Harris and his Graduate professor Dr. Harbo.......Get the facts from the researchers and long time beekeepers, not the forums. Great series Bob!! Thanks for sharing your meetings; INVALUABLE!!
So, take the queen and move her above a queen excluder with either bare foundation or a frame or two of drawn comb. After the time period remove the comb because it's likely capped. Put the queen back down below and remove those frames of capped brood. Why not make nucs from them. Before putting a queen in, hit them with formic acid in an out yard to kill any mites in the capped brood or on the bees that left with those frames. Anyway, what I've found is that no matter how much I treat to lower mite loads, I've got local beekeepers who end up mite bombing the apiaries. They just don't treat. If I end up with very low mite numbers, when it's crash time for the hives in my area my mite counts go through the roof. My issue is dealing with this problem every fall
Hi Bob, I have had good results this year with caging queens this summer after the end of our nectar flow. I think we are the same in flow timing and as you say this is important that it fits in with your own production and how this could work for another beekeeper or not! Firstly I completely agree with Jean, she says" gone are the days of putting a treatment in a hive and walking away". There just isn't a single effective treatment at present. Secondly I would argue that doing an experiment on 10 hives late in the season is definately not the best time! the bees are desperately trying to raise winter bees then and they are going to give the queen some serious grief if she is not in laying mode. You know the expression "Let the bees tell you and Follow their lead" well exactly. The best time to give a forced brood break is when there would naturally be a virtual brood break. (because of a dearth) I caged as many queens as I could find in mid July to end July, yes about 80% of my queens, the results are brilliant. I released after day 21, or as and when I could with my own time scale, whenever it was possible. I had a good window as releasing even a little late because you know its a good while days before those growing larvae become capped over. I made a .lot of nucs and yes I had lots of Varroa issues in my nucs, because I took brood from the colonies full of varroa, at the same time, but I believe its the right thing too do and its a formidable weapon against mites. Releasing the queens is so interesting because the bees have cleaned all the cells and this has also implications for improving the hygenicness of the brood combs. (as stated by Professor Jamie Ellis) in the talk you filmed whilst being shown around the fantastic new facility in Florida! I made a video, as it explains what I did and how I did it. I have little figures only that my colonies are all booming where I cages the queens. ua-cam.com/video/9i98udTYqo0/v-deo.html Thanks for posting this. Fantastic collaboration for us beekeepers all around the world! hope to catch up one day!
Difference when you caged the queen you use special cages bees could pass thru like a queen excluder .. they probably just used reg cages queens legs probably got chewed on. Which triggered them to supercide the queens .. if this was done during extreme heat and humidity of the deep south probably had very poor mating results .. that's a alot ifs lol but that could very well be the reason. You obviously had great results
Hi Richard. Enjoyed your video. Good info. The beekeepers in Florida where that late study was done can usually get away with things you or I can't because the bees rear brood all year but apparently not this time for some reason. Thanks.
@@bobbinnie9872 thank you Bob. I think it’s a really viable method but the précise application is crucial to each Individual situation. We’re all desperately looking for that silver bullet, perhaps this is just a lead slug but at least it’s some alternative method that seems to help a lot!! Best regards. 🐝🐝🐝💪🏻🙌
Richard you're too good and too nice person to critiqe. Unlike my father, wich doesn't care... We did an experiment last summer on 10 hives. With the small excluder cage in the comb. We combined oxalic-glycerin sponges (2 strips, 1/2 of the 4 strips we usually use) with those 21 days. It worked better than l tought. As those bees emerge and don't have nobade to feed, they start cleaning like crazy. The varroa drop on the bottom board was done by day 25-26. Without vaporizing. After 30 days the sponges were gone, everything was polish and shiny, queens laying in the last cuple frames in the box. There was no varroa in the alcohol wash. In the winter vaporization the drop was 0, to 3 varroas in one hive. Right now they have 5 capped brood frames, look very healthy, a slow flow started, they bringing pollen and the weight of the hives is going up. They look better than the control hives that got the 4 glycerin strips without the brood break. In my opinion it's all because that fast change of the generation happens after the brood break. And they come out healthy. I just tought it may be intersting to share. The timing is always about the location - weather
Bob this whole series has been great. I live in the South Dakota tundra and do two OA treatments mid winter Jan or Feb. At this time the hives are broodless and the treatment seems to work very well so far. I do these treatments on a 55 F degree day so the bees are flying and the cluster is loose.
Bob, the queen trapping reminds me a lot of what Ralph Bulcher is teaching in part 3 of 4 on his series of sustainable varroa management. Although his prescription is a bit different than what UGA done here, I see no reason why some of his queen trapping suggestions couldn't be incorporated into this OA control effort. I've been wanting to combine the two concepts myself, but it seems to be one of those things that gets put on the back burner every year here. If the bees below the queen excluder / queen don't get crazy drawing qcells, then perhaps what UGA did here is a better and easier approach to limiting / interupting brood production. I know that space matters, so I'd certainly be careful not to trap momma too far away from the beaten path. Great work guys !!!
A post from LauriMayM4926 years ago. When I started doing what I call 'fly back' swarms, I'd move an entire colony onto my cart, place a new box on the bottom board in the original location, find the queen and place her on one or two frames of Open brood right in the center. Surrounding that center frame with new undrawn frames and a good interior feeder. (Keep that feeder full of feed while they are drawing new frames) Letting all the foragers fly back to the old location and allowing them to rebuild new comb. It works wonderfully with an older very large overwintered hive early spring.
All mites are phoretic until that frame of open brood is capped. (The reason I use a frame of brood is to keep them from considering absconding) Removing that frame of brood once capped would be a good way to remove a lot of mites from the colony. Using a frame of open DRONE brood for the 'anchor' frame would make some sense and you wouldn't have any problem removing that, opposed to a full frame of worker brood.
Back then OAV was not legal and I'd never tried it with the method. But now, combined with the phoretic period when assembled, it would be amazing way to refreshing an older colony. (You take all the frames of brood, feed and bees from that original large overwintered colony and break them up into nucs and give them a queen cell.) I loved this method, one of the things I did when I mentioned I had so many hives I had the resources to experiment when I was pretty inexperienced. I have not done it in a couple years because...it results in a LOT of new colonies! I am already selling nucs and spending more time working bees than I intended. Of course you could recombine the hive once the virgin queens have been run through the older frames and they are cleaned up. Harvest your mated queens & Reassemble or combine the nucs right before your main flow for a larger production colony. There are other options other than keeping all the nucs separate.
I did this for a few years without treatments and it worked pretty darn well for me. With an OA hit, it would work beautifully. There is no empty comb to contaminate with the OAV crystals except for the center anchor/bait frame. All the frames are new and not yet drawn. A dribble would also be effective at this point. But those frames will soon be drawn in just a few days with all those bees, an established queen with no where to lay and no brood to feed. If you've never seen a colony grab a gear, be prepared to be amazed.
Thanks for the great effort in the researches and to let us know, i would like to give two little suggestions about the frame where the queen is confined that are common practice here in Italy with the brood break, the first one is about the type of frame that should be with brood at all stages, this because if you give the queen a completely empty frame, she could lay all the eggs in the first days becoming a non laying queen quite soon, instead with few emerging bees per day she can continue to lay utill the end of the bb and remain big. The second is about not to reuse but to melt the frame full of brood after the release of the queen, this because all the varroa that had no where to go during the brood break sneak in the only brood available, the one where the queen is, becoming a highly infested frame. Thanks for your time, it's always a pleasure watch your videos, greetings from Italy.
Unlike the study in the previous video I did 7x5 day oxalic treatment cycle in late November and early December in eastern Washington state. I found a definite decrease in mire counts from an average of 15 per sample at tqhe start of the treatment to an average of 3 one week after the cycle was complete, For what it is worth, the Georgia test was done in the summer when capped brood was plentiful whereas my treatment was done in late fall with minimal brood presence. One observation does not make a conclusive study, but my experience suggests that the time of year and corresponding presence of brood is a variable that needs to be considered. All of the 10 hives I treated have overwintered successfully, with two hives having strong populations and one being noticeably weaker than the others. All of this offered for what it is or is not worth.
Another great conversation! I love how Bob is the bridge between researchers doing important work, and actionable steps for beekeepers. Are there studies measuring the effect of oxalic on virgin or newly mated queens? I get the math of doing an oxalic vap treatment during a requeening event, but worry about the delicate nature of the young queen at that point.
Great information! This could be a very helpful way to knock down the mites. It would be labor intensive for us, but I think we are going to give it try on about 50 of our colonies. Like Jennifer said OAV is not a silver bullet, but included with another treatment with different modes of action, we could get that OAV winter kill we all like anytime.
Re: caging queens. Last summer I caged each queen in 7 hives for two weeks during July, then did an OA dribble on day 21. Mite control was superb, but 2 queens expired and the others only resumed laying around 10 days after release. Also, after 2 weeks of non-laying, the queens slimmed down and one flew merrily away upon release (fortunately she found her way back). Lessons learned. This year I plan to do brood breaks again during the dearth, and, as suggested, isolate the queen in a super above a QE for 2 weeks, with one foundationless frame placed between honey frames or undrawn foundation. If I have time, I’ll pull that frame at one week into the break (at which time there will be no capped brood and thus no mites), replace it with another “blank” (non-foundation or drawn comb). Another tweak: in one hive I combined a brood break with a Bailey comb exchange. Queen was isolated in a deep box over a QE (not caged), on an end frame of capped brood adjacent to a honey frame. Remaining frames were undrawn plastic foundation. Fed heavily via a hive top feeder. The foundation was largely drawn out after two weeks. This would not be appropriate if one plans to pull honey frames later, but it seems a good way to get foundation drawn and stores built up for winter, if not.
I would like to hear what temperature the vap was set at. Studys from Canada show that temperature higher than 370 braking down the OA. I remember you Bob and Joe May when that guy from Canada came on tell about the study. After that i set mine to 360 and my mite count went to 0 on most hives. I find it kills alot better. Just my 2 cents from Pennsylvania.
I do queen cells for Nucs, hit them twice before first brood gets capped. Was the first year I did this and colonies were much cleaner late summer. Best my colonies have looked this time of year.
Hello ser, The experimental studies of termal decomposition mechanisam firmly established that the major decomposition products of oxalic acid vapor over the 260-315F are equimolar quantitis of carbon dioxide and formic acid. Oxalic acid at first losses its water of crystallization at 212F and begins to sublime at 302-320F, whilst on heating to a still higher temperature it partially decomposes into carbon dioxide and formic acid. With increasing temperature fruther more it produce CO2,CO and H2O. So basically we treat bees with oxalic acid and formic acid at 230C or 446F.
Thank you Jen and Lewis for doing this and thank you Bob for this Video. I'm going to try something like this in July with nuc boxes. This way I can also make nus to over winter which is a plus. It adds another good reason to do it this way. I'm also going to use OAV this week coming out of winter (2nd week of Feb) to try to send the bees into spring a little more mite free. They haven't been flying much since it's been so cold. I treated twice in December and 3 times on 4 other colonies and found that larger colonies still had mites going into winter.
@Rex Roberton They are doing studies, sometimes you do that type of thing to see the outcome. They make mistakes on purpose in studies so they see what happens and can warn people not to do it. The same reason they have a group they didn't treat.
@Rex Roberton we placed those in colonies we use for raising for Varroa for lab studies, you're right in saying that in a 'normal operation' they should be disposed of, that should have been made more explicit
Last winter I came up with a thought, didnt get a chance to try it, exclude the queen on drone brood for 17 days, dispose of drone brood, and treat with OA on day 23. that would use 3 different treatments that are the least hard on the bees. maybe I will try it this year.
I have been doing this with good results for the past three years by pulling queens into nucs, using the OTS method to re-queen then doing two OAV treatments 3 to 5 days apart while they are broodless.. However, I had poor results getting queens mated during a derth so this year I plan to pull queens during our last major flow (usually mid June). I leave all of the Sealed brood in the main hive and OAV the nuc the next day.
QMP: In Italy where this method origins they use special "Scalvini cages" that allow the queens to lay on but brood can't be capped. Bees freely move in and out the cage trough excluder alike grid. Requeening opportunities easily done after oa treatment.
Ha Bob the video was great how in the world can a person with as many hives like u do catch the queens it sounds like a impossible task hope u have a great day I hope they find a good simple way and soon
Noticed one 'outlier' 'x' (10:35) on the control indicating a 20+ fold mite mortality. While anticipating some random deviation, it may be interesting to know the total hive count in the study, and the count for each method utilized. Seeing the combination average roughly 5x the control colony is certainly encouraging and worthy of follow-up. I will utilize this method this year and see if I can get better results for my apiary.
I too was a bit puzzled about the twenty fold when I went back and watched it. Lewis is extremely smart and may have been referring to something I didn't catch, I don't know. He did mention a bit later about the 5x.
@@bobbinnie9872 the outlier 20x control is a great example of why we need many replicates. in that case, the pre-treatment sticky screen for one of the control colonies had had very, very few mites on for a reason we can't easily know, and then the 'during treatment' [remember no actual treatment in controls, just simultaneous with the experimental ones] had a very 'normal' amount of mites (similar to all the other control colonies), but because the pre-measure was unusually small (bad sticky screen?) the 'fold increase' looks very large. I include it for completeness but it's not that there was massive mite drop in that colony.
In your opinion ,as great as this information is for a hobbyist or possibly a sideliner, do you think you could implement this in your/a commercial setting?
This is for such a worthy cause and I sincerely thank all involved for the efforts in this research. I don't recall hearing what the OAV procedure was in this testing? 2g / brood box on a single dose only at 21 days after queen place upstairs? Or was there multiple treatments starting at 21 days?
In the Florida study mentioned they released the caged queen and and treated on day 21. In the UGA version they pulled the excluder on day 14 and treated on day 21 with both 2 gram and 3 gram per box.
From my understanding of varroa, the mites are a tracked to open brood and enter brood cells just before they are capped. So how were the mites accounted for that hatched in the deep brood box and moved above the excluder to enter the brood being capped in the shallow box?
Bob, Thank you for putting this extremely practical information out there. Am I correct in understanding that on the combination (BOA) protocol at day 21 they only performed one treatment of OAV and no subsequent OA treatments?
The research is interested. I know you don't want to crunch efficacy numbers but it would be useful if you could categorize it in some different configurations like nuc, single deep, and double deep. Is this more effective on the small hives or larger hives or there really wasn't a difference. The data exists so it is just a matter of doing the data analysis. That would be a good student project.
Bob, in the end Jennifer Berry says, I wish we had done double treatment! Is she saying that they should have hit the colonies 7 more times, after hitting them 7 times once ? I am confused! Please clarify, because I am not sure what would another round achieve more, if the first 7 hits couldn't attain it.
We're pondering it. The problem is getting the work done at what is a busy time for us. As Jennifer mentioned, I would treat twice if I did all that work.
@Bob Binnie do you have a treatment schedule? Or treat yards after the 3% threshold as many times as they pass it? I was wondering in implementing a brood brake + treatment in August and then again during winter natural break. If it would be sufficient on colonies always showing less than 3%, to also let them expose to promote hygenic behavior and natural resistance.
@@thenewbeejournal In Recent years we have treated with something around the first of August and then oxalic vaporization when they're brood-less in winter. At times some colonies would approach or go over 3% in mid summer but if we were making honey and we could see the treatment period in August coming soon we would wait until the flow was over. If the numbers are high enough to give us major trouble in the near future the supers come off and we treat. Your plan could work but I would check numbers in spring to make sure things wouldn't get out of hand in summer. 3% in spring or early summer is too much in my view. I would do something if I saw that.
Very interesting. It will save me a lot of excess work next year. Gives me great ideas to apply to my operation going forward. When do they treat them with OAV? Morning or doesn’t it matter?
Things that make you go hmmm? This procedure made me wonder what if. 1) a Demree was done for swarm control plus OXA. 2) Then this method after the honey flow. It would be a lot of work. Thoughts?
Thank you for another great video about the mite study. I noticed at the 11:00 minute mark that 2g dose of OA looks like the ideal amount for treatments, since I never go brood less would monthly treatments be beneficial throughout the year and then my normal treatments during winter? 🤔
Do you feel the demaree method would work? Treating the colony 14 days after you put the queen into the bottom box. Would she be too close to the OAV in the bottom box? If you only give her a one frame in the bottom box and the rest is foundation this would slow her down. Apparently this method does not impact on honey production.
@@bobbinnie9872 I’m in Queensland, Australia so the treatment of varroa may becoming a reality. We have been lucky and I hope the luck persists for a bit longer. Finger crossed 🤞🏼. All I can say is thank you for the time, effort and financial resources you put into the varroa issue. Your video’s are a tremendous educational resource. It’s all greatly appreciated.
I don’t know what I’m doing wrong with comments? In your opinion,as great as this study and information is for a hobbyist or sideliner, do you think it is feasible for a commercial operation?
Thank you for these informative videos Bob they have been a huge help! Quick question for you. I've noticed in several of your other videos that you have drone frames in a lot of your hives. Do you use the drone frames for mite control, or do you use them to increase your drone population for mating purposes? I wouldn't think that you would have the time to pull drone frames, freeze them, and all of that based on the size of your operation. If you are using them for drone population have you noticed that the hives with the drone frames are more prone to having a higher mite count?
Hi Christopher. As you suspected we don't use them for drone trapping. We use them to make sure we have drones being raised in each colony but more importantly than that we use them help keep our colonies from producing excessive drone cells in what we consider our good worker brood comb.
@@bobbinnie9872 Glad to hear that because I have purchased a deep drone frame for all of my hives and I am going to add them in at the beginning of spring, or when I can make splits. My thought was to make sure I increase my drone populations so I have a better chance of incorporating those genetics into the queens that I raise. I have purchased 2 Caucasian queens from Old Sol and I can't wait to see how they do. Thanks for all of your help Bob it is greatly appreciated!
Bob, I really do appreciate, these videos with the fine people who are doing this research. I have but one question, that maybe I missed. When they did hit them with Oxalic, was it at the recommended per box we now have and if so was it implied that one of the things they could have added to the test was maybe doubled Oxalic per hive?
High Malcolm. It was tried at both a 2 gram and 3 gram "per box" dose. In the results they mentioned that they didn't see any difference between 2 and 3 grams (per box).
Question for you Bob would an OA treatment at day 8 and day 14 give you a better result with a higher clean up? My thought is keeping the frame the queen layed in with the colony.
Hi Bob In your opinion, what temperature should the oxalic acid sublimator set to? My sublimator is set to 230 C. I noticed that if the temperature goes to 240 C or more all the oxalic acid sublimes no essential crystals remain as when the temperature is around 230 C.
I’m sorry I thought I entered this comment but then it didn’t come up when I clicked on comments? I thought previously they were @ UAF? Now they’re saying Louisiana? LSU? Where are they & where is the study being done?
Hi Ray. I'm convinced I don't get all the comments submitted. Maybe UA-cam thought you used a four letter word. They're at UGA. The University of Georgia-Athens. Part 1 and Part 2 studies were in Georgia. Part 3 which is coming up was in Georgia, Alabama and Maryland. 👍
Not that this negates altogether any of the initial findings discussed in these series of conversations but am I correct that these results being discussed have yet to be peer reviewed or published?
As of 2-5-22 the study on repeated application discussed in "part 1" of this series has been accepted by the "Journal Of Insect Science" but is currently be held to be included in a "Special Edition". The release date of the special addition is not yet known. The research talked about in this video is scheduled to be submitted in March. I would guess that Keith Delaplane (Jennifers boss) and others at UGA will be looking at it closely first. The research on Aluen Cap, which will be shown in part 3, involved several labs, is currently under review, and I believe is also intended to be submitted in March.
None of my friends treat and none have mites problems. My mentor have had bees for 50-60 years, never lost bees to varroa. ..... only to wasps, beetles, wax moth...... but we got a solution for those now
I can only suggest to relise the queen before august 15. So she can lay the winter brood they need. To the young man in the video. This stuff is done over 15 years, with many different cages and timing. And nobade is vaporizing with the queen still in the cage. Please do your research before you share your opinions
In the Florida study that he is referring to they vaporized on day 21. I'm not sure if they had released the queen or not. You are right that if the didn't they should have.
@@bobbinnie9872 l'm sorry Bob, l have nothing against you. I wish every beekeeper is like you... It's the information and opinions that l don't like, when they are wrong.. they are researchers, should know better. When you cage a queen in a small cage, in the brood box.. there is enough queen pheromone there for the brood to get too old for them to make cells.. and they don't do it. Queens have no problem with the small cage. It's done long enough (in Europe) to test that theory. If you don't want the small cage, use a trap frame.. an old frame with capped brood already in it.. and cage the queen on it for those 15 days. Than she can lay as it emerges.. if you put her on an empty she will lay it in two days. (You know what l'm talking about).. on day 21-23 take that frame out and vaporize... don't use that brood frame, it's full with varroa. It's all tested and it works. A back yard beekeeper can split the hive vertical.. vaporize the part with open brood.. whayt for the capped brood part, and vaporize that.. and conbine again. It can be a swarming tehnic, a varroa treatment, a splitting and new queen tehnic. Works, It's not that difficult to understand. It's the opinions without trying it that are wrong.. again, sorry but l can't watch it and say nothing
@@researcherAmateur agreed 100%. I think the researchers came across bordering on incompetent. Maybe it was just the video, im sure they are intelligent people but this is poor. Very poor.
@@apisincognito8173 my problem is when l see how many people watching this.. and they think it's right.. will kill their queens. And l know it's wrong.. doing it for years with the small cages. They will never see the polishing of the cells and hive..or the change of the generation.. or the big clusters of healthy bees over winter. All because of opinions before trying it
I don't actually know but here's my personal thoughts on the matter. If I did this brood break treatment I believe I would hold the queen for at least 17 or 18 days and treat twice, 3 or 4 days apart. Then I think the results would probably match or exceed the treatments you mentioned. BUT, I have not ever done that so I'm just theorizing.
Since Lewis mentioned "follow on" work, it would be interesting to take your idea, Bob, of combining OA sublimation with the introduction of a queen cell/virgin queen to understand if there is any adverse effect on the acceptance/ mating of the queen.
I have friends that say they vaporize the virgin or the new mated queen. They cage the old one for the brood break.. then after they do everything in one day. Too many hives to do it different. Between the flows, usually start of Juli. I never tried it
This research had the potential to be very interesting. Sadly, and I hasten to comment in case I cause offence, I feel this research seemed (to me) a bit confused. Why on earth wouldn't they cage the queen? Making the queen honey bound/adding foundation?! Colony mortality? What the colony just died? Richard Noel did many colonies by caging. Colony mortality... I don't think so. The queen some how gets vapour damaged by being in a cage? I don't think so. Not unless you blast her directly the nozzle of the VAP. Queen cells. None.... or was that hardly at all? When Bob dropped the drone brood bomb shell. There was still some capped brood .... but definitely not drone brood! oops! Were all the colonies at the same mite load at the beginning of the test? So many questions but very few answers on this video.... Which leads me to be disappointed and therefore it's with regret I'll be clicking the dislike button.
You hit the 👍 button to show Bob you appreciate him showing these studies and trying to get data ,for FREE.. They may or may not have been done as well as hoped,and they may or may not show the data we hoped for,they also may have realized later mistakes..or maybe it showed enough that a child could understand that oa with a broodbreak is more effective..Or you can play internet judge with a scorecard and tally every little thing that wasn't perfect or didn't show what you wanted..
@@badassbees3680 Being a internet judge is what these comments are all about. Not all comments will be positive. I think my points are fair. You are right. A child could understand this. It's just a shame that no children will be watching this. Many people that watch Bob will be big commercial enterprises looking for solutions.... and it's not provided with this data.
Bob, maybe there would be a valid discussion or research for caging a queen (in a cage made out of queen excluders) for the whole winter? Personally, in our apiary we do it and it works great. Post a link for a video just to see how it looks like: ua-cam.com/video/Bwh-LAS5w34/v-deo.html
Oxalic acid may kill mite but unfortunately It will ultimately lead to many cases of lung disease and other respiratory diseases. Interesting research but a very narrow approach.
Seems like it’d be better & easier to just use something like ApiGuard in late summer and then do a mid-winter OAV series. Brood breaks are a lot of work and negatively affect the colony population. 👎🏻
Minor correction to make: the text at 5:45 should be accepted and not excepted. (Please delete if this isn't useful or if it gets changed.)
It would be much worse without gramar, whoops, grammar and spelling check. 👍
@@bobbinnie9872 that proves that you are human and not a bee in disguise.
Good catch.
well bob this shows that beeks are paying attention to yall and again thank you for all you do.
While we're at it, at 8:09 should be integrated instead of intergrated. 🙂
Bob, These series that you have done with the University of Georgia team has done more to help beekeepers understand mites and the best ways to deal with them than any other sources of information I have seen to date, Thanks again!
Wow thank you for this series. all of this makes so much sense.
Thanks to all doing this research and to you for sharing!!
Interesting to listen to! I learn so much from your channel!
Thanks for all the people to doing this study. It will definitely make us think of how we are going to plan our year.
Thank you for sharing this Bob!!!
Hard work and sharing yourself/colonies/wealth makes this all possible. Thanks for your willingness to share that and the information concerning the studies/trials
Well, there ya go. Part 1 and 2 get right to the point and show the results. I have followed Ms. Berry from my start in beekeeping; her, Duplaine, and Ellis. Not to slight my newer favorite from here in the USDA bee lab in Louisiana and now at MSU, Dr. Jeff Harris and his Graduate professor Dr. Harbo.......Get the facts from the researchers and long time beekeepers, not the forums. Great series Bob!! Thanks for sharing your meetings; INVALUABLE!!
Thanks for Sharing! This has been an interesting study.
So, take the queen and move her above a queen excluder with either bare foundation or a frame or two of drawn comb. After the time period remove the comb because it's likely capped. Put the queen back down below and remove those frames of capped brood. Why not make nucs from them. Before putting a queen in, hit them with formic acid in an out yard to kill any mites in the capped brood or on the bees that left with those frames.
Anyway, what I've found is that no matter how much I treat to lower mite loads, I've got local beekeepers who end up mite bombing the apiaries. They just don't treat. If I end up with very low mite numbers, when it's crash time for the hives in my area my mite counts go through the roof.
My issue is dealing with this problem every fall
I feel your pain.
Hi Bob, I have had good results this year with caging queens this summer after the end of our nectar flow. I think we are the same in flow timing and as you say this is important that it fits in with your own production and how this could work for another beekeeper or not!
Firstly I completely agree with Jean, she says" gone are the days of putting a treatment in a hive and walking away". There just isn't a single effective treatment at present.
Secondly I would argue that doing an experiment on 10 hives late in the season is definately not the best time! the bees are desperately trying to raise winter bees then and they are going to give the queen some serious grief if she is not in laying mode.
You know the expression "Let the bees tell you and Follow their lead" well exactly. The best time to give a forced brood break is when there would naturally be a virtual brood break. (because of a dearth)
I caged as many queens as I could find in mid July to end July, yes about 80% of my queens, the results are brilliant. I released after day 21, or as and when I could with my own time scale, whenever it was possible. I had a good window as releasing even a little late because you know its a good while days before those growing larvae become capped over.
I made a .lot of nucs and yes I had lots of Varroa issues in my nucs, because I took brood from the colonies full of varroa, at the same time, but I believe its the right thing too do and its a formidable weapon against mites.
Releasing the queens is so interesting because the bees have cleaned all the cells and this has also implications for improving the hygenicness of the brood combs. (as stated by Professor Jamie Ellis) in the talk you filmed whilst being shown around the fantastic new facility in Florida!
I made a video, as it explains what I did and how I did it. I have little figures only that my colonies are all booming where I cages the queens. ua-cam.com/video/9i98udTYqo0/v-deo.html
Thanks for posting this. Fantastic collaboration for us beekeepers all around the world! hope to catch up one day!
Difference when you caged the queen you use special cages bees could pass thru like a queen excluder .. they probably just used reg cages queens legs probably got chewed on. Which triggered them to supercide the queens .. if this was done during extreme heat and humidity of the deep south probably had very poor mating results .. that's a alot ifs lol but that could very well be the reason. You obviously had great results
Your experiments blow this research out the water, Noely
Hi Richard. Enjoyed your video. Good info. The beekeepers in Florida where that late study was done can usually get away with things you or I can't because the bees rear brood all year but apparently not this time for some reason. Thanks.
@@bobbinnie9872 thank you Bob. I think it’s a really viable method but the précise application is crucial to each Individual situation. We’re all desperately looking for that silver bullet, perhaps this is just a lead slug but at least it’s some alternative method that seems to help a lot!! Best regards. 🐝🐝🐝💪🏻🙌
Richard you're too good and too nice person to critiqe. Unlike my father, wich doesn't care...
We did an experiment last summer on 10 hives. With the small excluder cage in the comb. We combined oxalic-glycerin sponges (2 strips, 1/2 of the 4 strips we usually use) with those 21 days. It worked better than l tought. As those bees emerge and don't have nobade to feed, they start cleaning like crazy. The varroa drop on the bottom board was done by day 25-26. Without vaporizing. After 30 days the sponges were gone, everything was polish and shiny, queens laying in the last cuple frames in the box. There was no varroa in the alcohol wash. In the winter vaporization the drop was 0, to 3 varroas in one hive.
Right now they have 5 capped brood frames, look very healthy, a slow flow started, they bringing pollen and the weight of the hives is going up. They look better than the control hives that got the 4 glycerin strips without the brood break.
In my opinion it's all because that fast change of the generation happens after the brood break. And they come out healthy. I just tought it may be intersting to share. The timing is always about the location - weather
This information is incredibly valuable! Thank you for sharing Bob!
Bob this whole series has been great. I live in the South Dakota tundra and do two OA treatments mid winter Jan or Feb. At this time the hives are broodless and the treatment seems to work very well so far. I do these treatments on a 55 F degree day so the bees are flying and the cluster is loose.
Thank you all for sharing this important research. Very well done!
Bob, the queen trapping reminds me a lot of what Ralph Bulcher is teaching in part 3 of 4 on his series of sustainable varroa management. Although his prescription is a bit different than what UGA done here, I see no reason why some of his queen trapping suggestions couldn't be incorporated into this OA control effort. I've been wanting to combine the two concepts myself, but it seems to be one of those things that gets put on the back burner every year here. If the bees below the queen excluder / queen don't get crazy drawing qcells, then perhaps what UGA did here is a better and easier approach to limiting / interupting brood production. I know that space matters, so I'd certainly be careful not to trap momma too far away from the beaten path.
Great work guys !!!
Superb information... Gives me plenty to think about.. Thank you for sharing this..
Hi Bob, thank you for your efforts in sharing the research, very interesting.
A post from LauriMayM4926 years ago.
When I started doing what I call 'fly back' swarms, I'd move an entire colony onto my cart, place a new box on the bottom board in the original location, find the queen and place her on one or two frames of Open brood right in the center. Surrounding that center frame with new undrawn frames and a good interior feeder. (Keep that feeder full of feed while they are drawing new frames) Letting all the foragers fly back to the old location and allowing them to rebuild new comb. It works wonderfully with an older very large overwintered hive early spring.
All mites are phoretic until that frame of open brood is capped. (The reason I use a frame of brood is to keep them from considering absconding) Removing that frame of brood once capped would be a good way to remove a lot of mites from the colony. Using a frame of open DRONE brood for the 'anchor' frame would make some sense and you wouldn't have any problem removing that, opposed to a full frame of worker brood.
Back then OAV was not legal and I'd never tried it with the method. But now, combined with the phoretic period when assembled, it would be amazing way to refreshing an older colony.
(You take all the frames of brood, feed and bees from that original large overwintered colony and break them up into nucs and give them a queen cell.)
I loved this method, one of the things I did when I mentioned I had so many hives I had the resources to experiment when I was pretty inexperienced. I have not done it in a couple years because...it results in a LOT of new colonies! I am already selling nucs and spending more time working bees than I intended. Of course you could recombine the hive once the virgin queens have been run through the older frames and they are cleaned up. Harvest your mated queens & Reassemble or combine the nucs right before your main flow for a larger production colony. There are other options other than keeping all the nucs separate.
I did this for a few years without treatments and it worked pretty darn well for me. With an OA hit, it would work beautifully. There is no empty comb to contaminate with the OAV crystals except for the center anchor/bait frame. All the frames are new and not yet drawn. A dribble would also be effective at this point. But those frames will soon be drawn in just a few days with all those bees, an established queen with no where to lay and no brood to feed. If you've never seen a colony grab a gear, be prepared to be amazed.
Very Interesting David, as I am looking to produce more nucs, I will have a look at LauriMayM4926 channel.
Really interesting video. Keep up the good work. More research needs to be done
Thanks for the great effort in the researches and to let us know, i would like to give two little suggestions about the frame where the queen is confined that are common practice here in Italy with the brood break, the first one is about the type of frame that should be with brood at all stages, this because if you give the queen a completely empty frame, she could lay all the eggs in the first days becoming a non laying queen quite soon, instead with few emerging bees per day she can continue to lay utill the end of the bb and remain big.
The second is about not to reuse but to melt the frame full of brood after the release of the queen, this because all the varroa that had no where to go during the brood break sneak in the only brood available, the one where the queen is, becoming a highly infested frame.
Thanks for your time, it's always a pleasure watch your videos, greetings from Italy.
Thank you for the ideas.👍
Unlike the study in the previous video I did 7x5 day oxalic treatment cycle in late November and early December in eastern Washington state. I found a definite decrease in mire counts from an average of 15 per sample at tqhe start of the treatment to an average of 3 one week after the cycle was complete, For what it is worth, the Georgia test was done in the summer when capped brood was plentiful whereas my treatment was done in late fall with minimal brood presence. One observation does not make a conclusive study, but my experience suggests that the time of year and corresponding presence of brood is a variable that needs to be considered. All of the 10 hives I treated have overwintered successfully, with two hives having strong populations and one being noticeably weaker than the others. All of this offered for what it is or is not worth.
Another great conversation! I love how Bob is the bridge between researchers doing important work, and actionable steps for beekeepers. Are there studies measuring the effect of oxalic on virgin or newly mated queens? I get the math of doing an oxalic vap treatment during a requeening event, but worry about the delicate nature of the young queen at that point.
I don't know of any research on that but I have "heard" of beekeepers doing it and reporting no problems.👍
great and interesting information. thank you for the video.
Great information! This could be a very helpful way to knock down the mites. It would be labor intensive for us, but I think we are going to give it try on about 50 of our colonies. Like Jennifer said OAV is not a silver bullet, but included with another treatment with different modes of action, we could get that OAV winter kill we all like anytime.
Re: caging queens. Last summer I caged each queen in 7 hives for two weeks during July, then did an OA dribble on day 21. Mite control was superb, but 2 queens expired and the others only resumed laying around 10 days after release. Also, after 2 weeks of non-laying, the queens slimmed down and one flew merrily away upon release (fortunately she found her way back). Lessons learned. This year I plan to do brood breaks again during the dearth, and, as suggested, isolate the queen in a super above a QE for 2 weeks, with one foundationless frame placed between honey frames or undrawn foundation. If I have time, I’ll pull that frame at one week into the break (at which time there will be no capped brood and thus no mites), replace it with another “blank” (non-foundation or drawn comb). Another tweak: in one hive I combined a brood break with a Bailey comb exchange. Queen was isolated in a deep box over a QE (not caged), on an end frame of capped brood adjacent to a honey frame. Remaining frames were undrawn plastic foundation. Fed heavily via a hive top feeder. The foundation was largely drawn out after two weeks. This would not be appropriate if one plans to pull honey frames later, but it seems a good way to get foundation drawn and stores built up for winter, if not.
Sounds like a good plan.
I would like to hear what temperature the vap was set at. Studys from Canada show that temperature higher than 370 braking down the OA. I remember you Bob and Joe May when that guy from Canada came on tell about the study. After that i set mine to 360 and my mite count went to 0 on most hives. I find it kills alot better. Just my 2 cents from Pennsylvania.
I do queen cells for Nucs, hit them twice before first brood gets capped. Was the first year I did this and colonies were much cleaner late summer. Best my colonies have looked this time of year.
Makes sense to me.
Hello ser,
The experimental studies of termal decomposition mechanisam firmly established that the major decomposition products of oxalic acid vapor over the 260-315F are equimolar quantitis of carbon dioxide and formic acid. Oxalic acid at first losses its water of crystallization at 212F and begins to sublime at 302-320F, whilst on heating to a still higher temperature it partially decomposes into carbon dioxide and formic acid. With increasing temperature fruther more it produce CO2,CO and H2O. So basically we treat bees with oxalic acid and formic acid at 230C or 446F.
Thank you Jen and Lewis for doing this and thank you Bob for this Video. I'm going to try something like this in July with nuc boxes. This way I can also make nus to over winter which is a plus. It adds another good reason to do it this way. I'm also going to use OAV this week coming out of winter (2nd week of Feb) to try to send the bees into spring a little more mite free. They haven't been flying much since it's been so cold. I treated twice in December and 3 times on 4 other colonies and found that larger colonies still had mites going into winter.
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@Rex Roberton They are doing studies, sometimes you do that type of thing to see the outcome. They make mistakes on purpose in studies so they see what happens and can warn people not to do it. The same reason they have a group they didn't treat.
@Rex Roberton To test other compounds.
@Rex Roberton we placed those in colonies we use for raising for Varroa for lab studies, you're right in saying that in a 'normal operation' they should be disposed of, that should have been made more explicit
Last winter I came up with a thought, didnt get a chance to try it, exclude the queen on drone brood for 17 days, dispose of drone brood, and treat with OA on day 23. that would use 3 different treatments that are the least hard on the bees. maybe I will try it this year.
How would you exclude her on drone brood? Like with a push in cage? I don't ever have drone brood except on my drone frame
@@Swampsquash either a box of drone frames with an excluder on top, or with some extra work build an excluder around 5 drone frames
I have been doing this with good results for the past three years by pulling queens into nucs, using the OTS method to re-queen then doing two OAV treatments 3 to 5 days apart while they are broodless.. However, I had poor results getting queens mated during a derth so this year I plan to pull queens during our last major flow (usually mid June). I leave all of the Sealed brood in the main hive and OAV the nuc the next day.
QMP:
In Italy where this method origins they use special "Scalvini cages" that allow the queens to lay on but brood can't be capped. Bees freely move in and out the cage trough excluder alike grid.
Requeening opportunities easily done after oa treatment.
I have seen those frames and like them.
Ha Bob the video was great how in the world can a person with as many hives like u do catch the queens it sounds like a impossible task hope u have a great day I hope they find a good simple way and soon
Interesting that they saw no difference between 2 and 3 grams of oxalic, but I wonder what the difference is between 1 and 2 grams?
They didn't use one gram in any part of this study but it would have been nice to know.
Noticed one 'outlier' 'x' (10:35) on the control indicating a 20+ fold mite mortality. While anticipating some random deviation, it may be interesting to know the total hive count in the study, and the count for each method utilized. Seeing the combination average roughly 5x the control colony is certainly encouraging and worthy of follow-up. I will utilize this method this year and see if I can get better results for my apiary.
I too was a bit puzzled about the twenty fold when I went back and watched it. Lewis is extremely smart and may have been referring to something I didn't catch, I don't know. He did mention a bit later about the 5x.
@@bobbinnie9872 the outlier 20x control is a great example of why we need many replicates. in that case, the pre-treatment sticky screen for one of the control colonies had had very, very few mites on for a reason we can't easily know, and then the 'during treatment' [remember no actual treatment in controls, just simultaneous with the experimental ones] had a very 'normal' amount of mites (similar to all the other control colonies), but because the pre-measure was unusually small (bad sticky screen?) the 'fold increase' looks very large. I include it for completeness but it's not that there was massive mite drop in that colony.
A full frame cage might be easier. We use them all the time.
Richard Noel has been doing a variation, "Varroa control with forced brood breaks".
I saw his video. Good info.
In your opinion ,as great as this information is for a hobbyist or possibly a sideliner, do you think you could implement this in your/a commercial setting?
This is for such a worthy cause and I sincerely thank all involved for the efforts in this research.
I don't recall hearing what the OAV procedure was in this testing? 2g / brood box on a single dose only at 21 days after queen place upstairs? Or was there multiple treatments starting at 21 days?
In the Florida study mentioned they released the caged queen and and treated on day 21. In the UGA version they pulled the excluder on day 14 and treated on day 21 with both 2 gram and 3 gram per box.
How much Oxalic acid did they use after they let the Queen go back to the colony? Thanks, great information
Some got 2 grams per box and some 3 grams. It was mentioned that they didn't see much difference between the two doses.
From my understanding of varroa, the mites are a tracked to open brood and enter brood cells just before they are capped. So how were the mites accounted for that hatched in the deep brood box and moved above the excluder to enter the brood being capped in the shallow box?
Good question. I don't know.
Bob, Thank you for putting this extremely practical information out there. Am I correct in understanding that on the combination (BOA) protocol at day 21 they only performed one treatment of OAV and no subsequent OA treatments?
That is correct. Jennifer mentioned she would like to have done it twice.
The research is interested. I know you don't want to crunch efficacy numbers but it would be useful if you could categorize it in some different configurations like nuc, single deep, and double deep. Is this more effective on the small hives or larger hives or there really wasn't a difference. The data exists so it is just a matter of doing the data analysis. That would be a good student project.
That would interesting information to know for certain.
Bob, in the end Jennifer Berry says, I wish we had done double treatment! Is she saying that they should have hit the colonies 7 more times, after hitting them 7 times once ? I am confused! Please clarify, because I am not sure what would another round achieve more, if the first 7 hits couldn't attain it.
Probably a second treatment after the queen had been isolated for a time.
@@bobbinnie9872 got it!
Thank you for keeping us in the loop.
Would you consider implementing brood breaks into your operation?
We're pondering it. The problem is getting the work done at what is a busy time for us. As Jennifer mentioned, I would treat twice if I did all that work.
@Bob Binnie do you have a treatment schedule? Or treat yards after the 3% threshold as many times as they pass it? I was wondering in implementing a brood brake + treatment in August and then again during winter natural break. If it would be sufficient on colonies always showing less than 3%, to also let them expose to promote hygenic behavior and natural resistance.
@@thenewbeejournal In Recent years we have treated with something around the first of August and then oxalic vaporization when they're brood-less in winter. At times some colonies would approach or go over 3% in mid summer but if we were making honey and we could see the treatment period in August coming soon we would wait until the flow was over. If the numbers are high enough to give us major trouble in the near future the supers come off and we treat. Your plan could work but I would check numbers in spring to make sure things wouldn't get out of hand in summer. 3% in spring or early summer is too much in my view. I would do something if I saw that.
Very interesting. It will save me a lot of excess work next year. Gives me great ideas to apply to my operation going forward.
When do they treat them with OAV? Morning or doesn’t it matter?
When they are flying the least would be best. If I was doing it, and could pull it off, I would do it before sun up.
Things that make you go hmmm? This procedure made me wonder what if. 1) a Demree was done for swarm control plus OXA. 2) Then this method after the honey flow. It would be a lot of work. Thoughts?
Doing a vap treatment in the top demaree box before the last of the hatch / before queen gets laying could be a very effective indeed.
Thank you for another great video about the mite study. I noticed at the 11:00 minute mark that 2g dose of OA looks like the ideal amount for treatments, since I never go brood less would monthly treatments be beneficial throughout the year and then my normal treatments during winter? 🤔
I'm sure monthly treatments would be helpful but I don't know if it would be good enough.
Do you feel the demaree method would work? Treating the colony 14 days after you put the queen into the bottom box. Would she be too close to the OAV in the bottom box? If you only give her a one frame in the bottom box and the rest is foundation this would slow her down. Apparently this method does not impact on honey production.
It would help but of course any sealed brood in the bottom box would not be affected. The queen should be Ok, we do singles in winter with no problem.
@@bobbinnie9872 I’m in Queensland, Australia so the treatment of varroa may becoming a reality. We have been lucky and I hope the luck persists for a bit longer. Finger crossed 🤞🏼. All I can say is thank you for the time, effort and financial resources you put into the varroa issue. Your video’s are a tremendous educational resource. It’s all greatly appreciated.
@@davidmcdonough6264 Thank you and good luck with the new challenge ahead.
How about the OA strips from Argentina she was going to test .. ? Any news on that ?
Part 3.👍
I don’t know what I’m doing wrong with comments? In your opinion,as great as this study and information is for a hobbyist or sideliner, do you think it is feasible for a commercial operation?
It would be tough.
Thank you for these informative videos Bob they have been a huge help! Quick question for you. I've noticed in several of your other videos that you have drone frames in a lot of your hives. Do you use the drone frames for mite control, or do you use them to increase your drone population for mating purposes? I wouldn't think that you would have the time to pull drone frames, freeze them, and all of that based on the size of your operation. If you are using them for drone population have you noticed that the hives with the drone frames are more prone to having a higher mite count?
Hi Christopher. As you suspected we don't use them for drone trapping. We use them to make sure we have drones being raised in each colony but more importantly than that we use them help keep our colonies from producing excessive drone cells in what we consider our good worker brood comb.
@@bobbinnie9872 Glad to hear that because I have purchased a deep drone frame for all of my hives and I am going to add them in at the beginning of spring, or when I can make splits. My thought was to make sure I increase my drone populations so I have a better chance of incorporating those genetics into the queens that I raise. I have purchased 2 Caucasian queens from Old Sol and I can't wait to see how they do. Thanks for all of your help Bob it is greatly appreciated!
Bob, I really do appreciate, these videos with the fine people who are doing this research.
I have but one question, that maybe I missed. When they did hit them with Oxalic, was it at the recommended per box we now have and if so was it implied that one of the things they could have added to the test was maybe doubled Oxalic per hive?
High Malcolm. It was tried at both a 2 gram and 3 gram "per box" dose. In the results they mentioned that they didn't see any difference between 2 and 3 grams (per box).
@@bobbinnie9872 thank you very much
Question for you Bob would an OA treatment at day 8 and day 14 give you a better result with a higher clean up? My thought is keeping the frame the queen layed in with the colony.
If you're keeping that frame day 8 would certainly help but I would still do the day 21.
Hi Bob
In your opinion, what temperature should the oxalic acid sublimator set to? My sublimator is set to 230 C. I noticed that if the temperature goes to 240 C or more all the oxalic acid sublimes no essential crystals remain as when the temperature is around 230 C.
Our units (we have 4) are preset to 230°c also but I usually don't notice a problem with remaining crystals.
I’m sorry I thought I entered this comment but then it didn’t come up when I clicked on comments? I thought previously they were @ UAF? Now they’re saying Louisiana? LSU? Where are they & where is the study being done?
Hi Ray. I'm convinced I don't get all the comments submitted. Maybe UA-cam thought you used a four letter word. They're at UGA. The University of Georgia-Athens. Part 1 and Part 2 studies were in Georgia. Part 3 which is coming up was in Georgia, Alabama and Maryland. 👍
I thought previously they said they were @ UAF? Now it sounds like Louisiana? LSU? Where are they and this study being done from?
University of Georgia
Not that this negates altogether any of the initial findings discussed in these series of conversations but am I correct that these results being discussed have yet to be peer reviewed or published?
As of 2-5-22 the study on repeated application discussed in "part 1" of this series has been accepted by the "Journal Of Insect Science" but is currently be held to be included in a "Special Edition". The release date of the special addition is not yet known. The research talked about in this video is scheduled to be submitted in March. I would guess that Keith Delaplane (Jennifers boss) and others at UGA will be looking at it closely first. The research on Aluen Cap, which will be shown in part 3, involved several labs, is currently under review, and I believe is also intended to be submitted in March.
None of my friends treat and none have mites problems. My mentor have had bees for 50-60 years, never lost bees to varroa. ..... only to wasps, beetles, wax moth...... but we got a solution for those now
I can only suggest to relise the queen before august 15. So she can lay the winter brood they need.
To the young man in the video. This stuff is done over 15 years, with many different cages and timing. And nobade is vaporizing with the queen still in the cage. Please do your research before you share your opinions
In the Florida study that he is referring to they vaporized on day 21. I'm not sure if they had released the queen or not. You are right that if the didn't they should have.
@@bobbinnie9872 l'm sorry Bob, l have nothing against you. I wish every beekeeper is like you...
It's the information and opinions that l don't like, when they are wrong.. they are researchers, should know better.
When you cage a queen in a small cage, in the brood box.. there is enough queen pheromone there for the brood to get too old for them to make cells.. and they don't do it. Queens have no problem with the small cage. It's done long enough (in Europe) to test that theory.
If you don't want the small cage, use a trap frame.. an old frame with capped brood already in it.. and cage the queen on it for those 15 days. Than she can lay as it emerges.. if you put her on an empty she will lay it in two days. (You know what l'm talking about).. on day 21-23 take that frame out and vaporize... don't use that brood frame, it's full with varroa. It's all tested and it works.
A back yard beekeeper can split the hive vertical.. vaporize the part with open brood.. whayt for the capped brood part, and vaporize that.. and conbine again. It can be a swarming tehnic, a varroa treatment, a splitting and new queen tehnic. Works, It's not that difficult to understand. It's the opinions without trying it that are wrong.. again, sorry but l can't watch it and say nothing
@@researcherAmateur agreed 100%. I think the researchers came across bordering on incompetent. Maybe it was just the video, im sure they are intelligent people but this is poor. Very poor.
@@apisincognito8173 my problem is when l see how many people watching this.. and they think it's right.. will kill their queens. And l know it's wrong.. doing it for years with the small cages.
They will never see the polishing of the cells and hive..or the change of the generation.. or the big clusters of healthy bees over winter. All because of opinions before trying it
@Rex Roberton probably the control colony!!!
Thanks for sharing Bob! I may have missed it but what was the alcohol wash count for the brood break colonies?
I didn't hear any mention of it. Would be interesting to know.
How do the results from this brood break treatment compare to other chemical treatments like apiguard, Amitraz? Thanks Bob
I don't actually know but here's my personal thoughts on the matter. If I did this brood break treatment I believe I would hold the queen for at least 17 or 18 days and treat twice, 3 or 4 days apart. Then I think the results would probably match or exceed the treatments you mentioned. BUT, I have not ever done that so I'm just theorizing.
@Rex Roberton What type of cage are you using?
Are they double deep with shallow or single deep with shallow super?
Single with shallow.
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Since Lewis mentioned "follow on" work, it would be interesting to take your idea, Bob, of combining OA sublimation with the introduction of a queen cell/virgin queen to understand if there is any adverse effect on the acceptance/ mating of the queen.
Hopefully someone will do that research. I've heard other beekeepers say it works OK.
I have friends that say they vaporize the virgin or the new mated queen. They cage the old one for the brood break.. then after they do everything in one day. Too many hives to do it different. Between the flows, usually start of Juli. I never tried it
This research had the potential to be very interesting. Sadly, and I hasten to comment in case I cause offence, I feel this research seemed (to me) a bit confused.
Why on earth wouldn't they cage the queen? Making the queen honey bound/adding foundation?!
Colony mortality? What the colony just died?
Richard Noel did many colonies by caging. Colony mortality... I don't think so.
The queen some how gets vapour damaged by being in a cage? I don't think so. Not unless you blast her directly the nozzle of the VAP.
Queen cells. None.... or was that hardly at all?
When Bob dropped the drone brood bomb shell. There was still some capped brood .... but definitely not drone brood! oops!
Were all the colonies at the same mite load at the beginning of the test? So many questions but very few answers on this video.... Which leads me to be disappointed and therefore it's with regret I'll be clicking the dislike button.
You hit the 👍 button to show Bob you appreciate him showing these studies and trying to get data ,for FREE.. They may or may not have been done as well as hoped,and they may or may not show the data we hoped for,they also may have realized later mistakes..or maybe it showed enough that a child could understand that oa with a broodbreak is more effective..Or you can play internet judge with a scorecard and tally every little thing that wasn't perfect or didn't show what you wanted..
@@badassbees3680 Being a internet judge is what these comments are all about. Not all comments will be positive. I think my points are fair.
You are right. A child could understand this. It's just a shame that no children will be watching this. Many people that watch Bob will be big commercial enterprises looking for solutions.... and it's not provided with this data.
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Bob, maybe there would be a valid discussion or research for caging a queen (in a cage made out of queen excluders) for the whole winter? Personally, in our apiary we do it and it works great. Post a link for a video just to see how it looks like: ua-cam.com/video/Bwh-LAS5w34/v-deo.html
Interesting video. I wish I could translate and understand. Thanks.
@@bobbinnie9872 we could have a zoom call if you would be interested to hear and critique it.
Oxalic acid may kill mite but unfortunately It will ultimately lead to many cases of lung disease and other respiratory diseases. Interesting research but a very narrow approach.
Just stand up wind from the vapour. Or hold your breath and squint.
Seems like it’d be better & easier to just use something like ApiGuard in late summer and then do a mid-winter OAV series. Brood breaks are a lot of work and negatively affect the colony population. 👎🏻