There was also another legion present at this battle, in sufficient numbers to hold off the Death Guard, and they got zero models... any guesses who they were?
Honestly I find it hard to get mad about more Dark Angels-given it took a decade to get there. But. It is more of the same. It’s cause they want to sell more of the same kit. You know this.
As a DA fan, while we waited a while, all we need is a Corswain model, for a long time. Other Legions need a turn (Salamanders, Ventanus for UM's, Raven Guard, Autek Mor and Meduson (How do they NOT have models).
Screw the other guys. DA first for a reason. Autek Mor is a thunder warrior so he doesn't get one till unification war comes out. Joking Autek would be cool.Endryd Haar is another thunder warrior that needs a model. Blackshields need some love.
I will give FW credit they tell you how they built all the units they show off in these updates. Their have been many times GW shows you some kind of kit bash and expect you to finger it out. Looking at you imperial guard
This is the kind of stuff (datasheet of new units that are faction specific variants of standard units with some clever rules and gear options that use the standard kits) I wish 40k got more, and not just for marine, but every single races. So far GW has been trying to make subfactions a thing by shoving a load of special rules on them, but what would feel way better, unique and less bloaty would simply be to give them one of thos special variant units. You are an Ork player and play Goff? Have a Skarboy unit. You are an Eldar player and play Uthwé? Have a Black Guardian unit. Etc etc etc. It would be so easier to do, and make the game way more interesting than having shit everything be cacked in a shit ton of rules layer.
For the Dg destroyers, I do feel that they'd be that one legion that would deploy them as troops. so I think their was a missed chance to go into the Bolter Flamer Melta combo they're into. After some thinking. Picture the whole squad as a support troops choice (like a tac-support-squad) but can also exchange any bolter for a Flamer or a Melta gun at 5 or 15 points respectively. And the 1:5 option could've also been a H-Flamer/Bolter or Multi-melta at their respective costs. (no suspensors) I believe the infantry cost is not unbalanced, if they were to make melta bombs 5pts each and defintaly lower the H-flamer as 10pts Something not covered in video was the special rule for them was "Morbid Resolve" which ignores Gets Hot for one shooting phase. Which would pair up nicely with the Mournivle events Dg consul Alchemius. So... those are my thoughts
For the DA knights This feels like a fourth version of the same unit, it feels more like a FAQ to their rules rather than a new unit. Speking as a DA player, the special terranic greatsword pattern is something that would have been really cool if you could take it on independent characters. I even feel like this pattern-version would have been better as the original TGS (because S6 Ap3 ID just feels like binary bullshit). What makes me sad a a bit is that the new order is also a great middle road between two that you could have already picked, one being anti-AV the other being anti-high toughness, making these more versatile and general-purpose. And that doesn't feel great.
The DG one sounds like an excellent objective denial unit. A nightmare in urban environments specifically. Take in termite (which ignores difficult&dangerous terrain), deep strike, roll up on hard to reach but important objective and put the poisoner squad in cover, watch the enemy struggle to remove the pests while you shell them with impunity. Also take a destroyer squad+moritat+termite and apothecaries for delicious 5+fnp on the denial squads and turn 1 deep striking due to subterrenean assault (same as drop pod assault). Nice. Now where is that warsmith model...
That's pre faq destroyer statline, granted if you look at them as elite support squads they are cool. Also, they don't interfere with The Reaping so you could take tactical squads and heavy support squads as troops and support squads as elites.
275 pts a squad is 55pts per model so for 20 pts over a regular termi they get all that stuff. They look cool, I like it when the DA get stuff as they are my favourite but i dont play 30k so...Eh
I think the DA unit was an attempt to make sword knights more viable. You'd never take a full unit of swords or more swords than thunder hammers before. They may well have overtuned them though. I think access to the new uber-terranic greatsword on independent characters would be real nice. Of course they could just fix 5/6 of the rites of war being unplayable
"The Cenobium only cost 10 points per model more than your average 35 points per model terminator. That's too cheap for how powerful they are, they should cost an additional 5 points per model more than that." A 5 man squad is 55s point per model and when bumped up to a ten man squad is 45 points per model. Meaning at max squad size (which is the cheapest way to bring most 30k units) you're paying 50 points per model which according to my calculations *checks notes* is 15 points per model more than the average terminator squad and exactly the points cost you said they should have. So they're not undercosted? Maybe get the rules straight before critiquing a unit?
@@jmitch5634 I actually did write a reply and it got deleted. Not sure what's up with that. I'll repeat my point. By Macca's own standard as he laid out in the video, the Cenobium are fairly costed by actually being priced at the amount he initially suggested they be adjusted up to. So he made a mistake. His response was rather childish and he changed the argument. He's doubling down and arguing that they are undercosted anyway because of the above rules that he listed in his response to me. So his argument has now shifted from "GW needs to do this to balance the unit" to "Even though GW actually did what I wanted, the unit is still unbalanced and undercosted." But this is par for the course with what I like to call "Macca's Law" (If there is a bad take to be had, Macca will find it and defend it), he's very good at it. Now to his point about all the bonuses granted to the cenobium for 15 points. Adamantium will is next to useless in 30k since there really aren't psykers running around and blowing up tables. Most players don't bring them unless they're running Thousand Sons, Word Bearers, or Daemons. They just aren't worth it. Similarly, if you're running swords on Cenobium (which you really should be), the WS bonus is super situational as they would still get a +1 bonus in most instances even at WS4 courtesy of MotB. So that leaves use with Stubborn, and Plasma Casters, which are both quite nice. The overwatch with plasma casters rule largely exists because GW gave the weapon an overwatch bonus, and then gave them to only a cataphractii unit. So that was GW's way of fixing their screw-up. Big picture, yeah they're better value than many terminators, but pretty reasonable value in the greater scheme of the game. I would argue that most terminators underperform outside of Deathstars and need to be brought up a bit in the current meta. Especially certain legion units like the Varagyr and Phoenix guard to name a few. To me this isn't really indicative of Cenobium being undercosted, but Terminators as a whole underperforming and the Cenobium are an outlier. Cenobium work the way all terminators should.
@@OrderthruChaos97 so I say very deliberately that the extra cost of the base unit was likely due to the Order Preceptor 3:04 in the video, and I acknowledge that they work out to 55 points each at the same time. I said they should be an additional 5 points per model after this, as I believe that per model this is true, as regardless, the unit is quite cheap IMHO. Doesn't matter if you think they are 45 or 55 averaged out to 50, because at the end of the day they are a lot of bang for your buck. Adamantium will, situational, sure, but a free special rule and of more worth than something like Soul Blaze. Add a psyker to the unit and if they're lvl 2 they could get as high as a 3+ deny the witch. Spicy. If you use the swords then they have mastery of the blade. Yes, that's IF, but I compared with thunder hammers. If you want to include the swords, then what wargear does anyone else have that compares to them? It's a much harder comparison to make. As for Macca's law, "Even though GW actually did what I wanted, the unit is still unbalanced and undercosted" this is in the same video where I said that the Death Guard Poisoner squad was a near perfect addition to the game. By the way, the true "Macca's law is: any content produced which doesn't only contain praise is by default a negative video."
the inner circles are was to cheap arent they? lets compare them with the IF huskarls vor example huskarls only got powerweapons no shooting and a 3++ they pay 10pts for fists inner circle got thunderhammers and ap2 shooting and a 4++ well I know what I'd rather take if I had a choice 😅
I read you. Huskarls seem like a better zone denial / bodyguard unit compared to the bullshit levels of killing power brought by the Cenobia. Huskarls are also 5 points cheaper when taking additional models and will fight on equal footing when charged by the OotBC Cenobia if equipped with Power Axes, but when you factor in the Plasma-Casters and perhaps add in a Primus Medicae in the Cenobium unit, that would definetly skew it in favour of the Cenobia. Really wish Huskarls had access to Tartaros, as the math favors the Huskarls for the first round of combat ever so slightly. Charging the Cenobia with regular IF Terminators (Fist+Shield) seems to yield better results though.
@@Zagrantha they are just too expensive compared to other legions special terminators in my opinion. and huskarls should be in indomitus as they are disceibed that was in all the books (if they even wear terminator armor there). also if they had chosen Worrior or something like that they would be great for an HQ choice. but having a 1 wound warlord as is possible realy sucks if you must issue challenges.
this smells like the practice of selling models with overpowering rules concerning the dark angels knights cenobium. They sound highly overpowered on paper.
There was also another legion present at this battle, in sufficient numbers to hold off the Death Guard, and they got zero models... any guesses who they were?
Iron Hands obviously, shattered legions get no love from FW
How did u paint ur iron hands?
I know u had it in a video but i can't find it.
Please help
Space wolves or raven guard
Honestly I find it hard to get mad about more Dark Angels-given it took a decade to get there.
But.
It is more of the same. It’s cause they want to sell more of the same kit.
You know this.
Wouldnt it make sense to make them interesting kit bashes so people would have to buy more kits?
As a DA fan, while we waited a while, all we need is a Corswain model, for a long time. Other Legions need a turn (Salamanders, Ventanus for UM's, Raven Guard, Autek Mor and Meduson (How do they NOT have models).
Screw the other guys. DA first for a reason. Autek Mor is a thunder warrior so he doesn't get one till unification war comes out. Joking Autek would be cool.Endryd Haar is another thunder warrior that needs a model. Blackshields need some love.
I will give FW credit they tell you how they built all the units they show off in these updates. Their have been many times GW shows you some kind of kit bash and expect you to finger it out. Looking at you imperial guard
Yeah
I need more Iron Hands in my life.
This is the kind of stuff (datasheet of new units that are faction specific variants of standard units with some clever rules and gear options that use the standard kits) I wish 40k got more, and not just for marine, but every single races.
So far GW has been trying to make subfactions a thing by shoving a load of special rules on them, but what would feel way better, unique and less bloaty would simply be to give them one of thos special variant units.
You are an Ork player and play Goff? Have a Skarboy unit. You are an Eldar player and play Uthwé? Have a Black Guardian unit.
Etc etc etc. It would be so easier to do, and make the game way more interesting than having shit everything be cacked in a shit ton of rules layer.
For the Dg destroyers, I do feel that they'd be that one legion that would deploy them as troops. so I think their was a missed chance to go into the Bolter Flamer Melta combo they're into.
After some thinking. Picture the whole squad as a support troops choice (like a tac-support-squad) but can also exchange any bolter for a Flamer or a Melta gun at 5 or 15 points respectively. And the 1:5 option could've also been a H-Flamer/Bolter or Multi-melta at their respective costs. (no suspensors)
I believe the infantry cost is not unbalanced, if they were to make melta bombs 5pts each and defintaly lower the H-flamer as 10pts
Something not covered in video was the special rule for them was "Morbid Resolve" which ignores Gets Hot for one shooting phase. Which would pair up nicely with the Mournivle events Dg consul Alchemius.
So... those are my thoughts
Perhaps you could house rule it with your friends, and allow The Reaping RoW turn them into troops??? That sounds appropriate!
For the DA knights
This feels like a fourth version of the same unit, it feels more like a FAQ to their rules rather than a new unit.
Speking as a DA player, the special terranic greatsword pattern is something that would have been really cool if you could take it on independent characters. I even feel like this pattern-version would have been better as the original TGS (because S6 Ap3 ID just feels like binary bullshit).
What makes me sad a a bit is that the new order is also a great middle road between two that you could have already picked, one being anti-AV the other being anti-high toughness, making these more versatile and general-purpose. And that doesn't feel great.
Dark Angels Ironwing...YES! MORE TECH! WOOOO!
Iron Within!
The DG one sounds like an excellent objective denial unit. A nightmare in urban environments specifically. Take in termite (which ignores difficult&dangerous terrain), deep strike, roll up on hard to reach but important objective and put the poisoner squad in cover, watch the enemy struggle to remove the pests while you shell them with impunity. Also take a destroyer squad+moritat+termite and apothecaries for delicious 5+fnp on the denial squads and turn 1 deep striking due to subterrenean assault (same as drop pod assault). Nice. Now where is that warsmith model...
I really want to build a squad of them to run them with Crysos Morturg. Infiltrate a bunch of ugly outcasts behind enemy lines and turn up the heat.
That's pre faq destroyer statline, granted if you look at them as elite support squads they are cool. Also, they don't interfere with The Reaping so you could take tactical squads and heavy support squads as troops and support squads as elites.
They're a more tanky support squad, but lose scoring. They're a harder hitting destroyer squad, but lose the mobility. Nice halfway house between.
I just want Sanguinary Guard equipped with Blades Of Perdition
FW would be cowards not to
Dark Angels: OK fluffwise, but not needed.
Death Guard: Very fluffy and nice unit.
That Death Guard unit is making me consider changing sides
"Considering?" Dude, come on over, we have cookies.
But brownies my guy brownies with reefer you can't beet that
I appreciate the video Macca!
Hey Macca could you make an army themed around this new Death Guard unit in a future vid?
Mac how did u paint ur iron hands?
I can't find the video
Instagram for the video, it's a metallic base-coat, with layers of patchy Tamiya clear colours.
@@TheOuterCircle Ur the man thanks Brother
Thnks!
Long shot but would anyone know a resource that lists all current Horus heresy kits that are out of production?
I guess there is the time to refresh video about starting Dark Angels in Horus heresy
Can you make this possible?)
275 pts a squad is 55pts per model so for 20 pts over a regular termi they get all that stuff. They look cool, I like it when the DA get stuff as they are my favourite but i dont play 30k so...Eh
Bollocks can be a compliment too
So 2 traitor legions get new units.
About as funny as majorkill
Yer its sad that the loyal legions don't get more love.
I think the DA unit was an attempt to make sword knights more viable. You'd never take a full unit of swords or more swords than thunder hammers before.
They may well have overtuned them though. I think access to the new uber-terranic greatsword on independent characters would be real nice.
Of course they could just fix 5/6 of the rites of war being unplayable
"The Cenobium only cost 10 points per model more than your average 35 points per model terminator. That's too cheap for how powerful they are, they should cost an additional 5 points per model more than that." A 5 man squad is 55s point per model and when bumped up to a ten man squad is 45 points per model. Meaning at max squad size (which is the cheapest way to bring most 30k units) you're paying 50 points per model which according to my calculations *checks notes* is 15 points per model more than the average terminator squad and exactly the points cost you said they should have. So they're not undercosted? Maybe get the rules straight before critiquing a unit?
"MaYBe GeT thE rUleS sTraiGht"
Eagerly awaiting a reply after Macca has justified his reasoning lol
@@jmitch5634 I actually did write a reply and it got deleted. Not sure what's up with that. I'll repeat my point. By Macca's own standard as he laid out in the video, the Cenobium are fairly costed by actually being priced at the amount he initially suggested they be adjusted up to. So he made a mistake. His response was rather childish and he changed the argument. He's doubling down and arguing that they are undercosted anyway because of the above rules that he listed in his response to me. So his argument has now shifted from "GW needs to do this to balance the unit" to "Even though GW actually did what I wanted, the unit is still unbalanced and undercosted." But this is par for the course with what I like to call "Macca's Law" (If there is a bad take to be had, Macca will find it and defend it), he's very good at it. Now to his point about all the bonuses granted to the cenobium for 15 points. Adamantium will is next to useless in 30k since there really aren't psykers running around and blowing up tables. Most players don't bring them unless they're running Thousand Sons, Word Bearers, or Daemons. They just aren't worth it. Similarly, if you're running swords on Cenobium (which you really should be), the WS bonus is super situational as they would still get a +1 bonus in most instances even at WS4 courtesy of MotB. So that leaves use with Stubborn, and Plasma Casters, which are both quite nice. The overwatch with plasma casters rule largely exists because GW gave the weapon an overwatch bonus, and then gave them to only a cataphractii unit. So that was GW's way of fixing their screw-up. Big picture, yeah they're better value than many terminators, but pretty reasonable value in the greater scheme of the game. I would argue that most terminators underperform outside of Deathstars and need to be brought up a bit in the current meta. Especially certain legion units like the Varagyr and Phoenix guard to name a few. To me this isn't really indicative of Cenobium being undercosted, but Terminators as a whole underperforming and the Cenobium are an outlier. Cenobium work the way all terminators should.
@@OrderthruChaos97 Quite a reasoned response. I agree with your point entirely, just because something is good, doesn't mean its inherently broken.
@@OrderthruChaos97 so I say very deliberately that the extra cost of the base unit was likely due to the Order Preceptor 3:04 in the video, and I acknowledge that they work out to 55 points each at the same time. I said they should be an additional 5 points per model after this, as I believe that per model this is true, as regardless, the unit is quite cheap IMHO. Doesn't matter if you think they are 45 or 55 averaged out to 50, because at the end of the day they are a lot of bang for your buck.
Adamantium will, situational, sure, but a free special rule and of more worth than something like Soul Blaze. Add a psyker to the unit and if they're lvl 2 they could get as high as a 3+ deny the witch. Spicy.
If you use the swords then they have mastery of the blade. Yes, that's IF, but I compared with thunder hammers. If you want to include the swords, then what wargear does anyone else have that compares to them? It's a much harder comparison to make.
As for Macca's law, "Even though GW actually did what I wanted, the unit is still unbalanced and undercosted" this is in the same video where I said that the Death Guard Poisoner squad was a near perfect addition to the game. By the way, the true "Macca's law is: any content produced which doesn't only contain praise is by default a negative video."
Dark Angel love
Im not necessarily against the Terminator unit being super killy. But Yeah at that point cost...
The inner circle knights seem a bit too good if you can get them close quickly
No 2nd wound, meh.
the inner circles are was to cheap arent they? lets compare them with the IF huskarls vor example huskarls only got powerweapons no shooting and a 3++ they pay 10pts for fists
inner circle got thunderhammers and ap2 shooting and a 4++
well I know what I'd rather take if I had a choice 😅
I read you. Huskarls seem like a better zone denial / bodyguard unit compared to the bullshit levels of killing power brought by the Cenobia.
Huskarls are also 5 points cheaper when taking additional models and will fight on equal footing when charged by the OotBC Cenobia if equipped with Power Axes, but when you factor in the Plasma-Casters and perhaps add in a Primus Medicae in the Cenobium unit, that would definetly skew it in favour of the Cenobia.
Really wish Huskarls had access to Tartaros, as the math favors the Huskarls for the first round of combat ever so slightly.
Charging the Cenobia with regular IF Terminators (Fist+Shield) seems to yield better results though.
@@Zagrantha they are just too expensive compared to other legions special terminators in my opinion.
and huskarls should be in indomitus as they are disceibed that was in all the books (if they even wear terminator armor there).
also if they had chosen Worrior or something like that they would be great for an HQ choice. but having a 1 wound warlord as is possible realy sucks if you must issue challenges.
@Space Vatnik so you say its fluffy for them to have cheaper stronger units? no interest in a balanced experience?
@Space Vatnik agreed
this smells like the practice of selling models with overpowering rules concerning the dark angels knights cenobium. They sound highly overpowered on paper.