The point of this comparison was to show the differences in sound only between the new and old Massive, which I think it does well. Massive X sounds more "modern" in the sense that its oscillators' waveforms are cleaner and less distorted-sounding, which has been one of the selling points of Serum over many other synths. Whether that's a good thing depends on what sounds are desired in a given context; there's nothing wrong with "dirty" oscillators if they get the sound you need. Cleaner basic waveforms, thouhg also "thinner" sounding, do allow wider variation in programming procedures, which many sound designers, particularly those who appreciate Serum, will applaud. Other videos have demonstrated that, if you want dirty, Massive X will do dirty, but with more precise variation control and hence finer control over timbre than old Massive. If you don't enjoy spending hours tweaking your way into total confusion and just want something that does the job at a useful level in a way you're familiar with, any new synth is really going to have to sell itself by offering something irresistible, so that yet another steep learning curve will pay for itself - eventually. In addition to the financial issues, then, the question "How much time ya got?" is also crucial.
With analog synths the only selling point is "are the waveforms drifing/fuzzy/noisy/warm enough" and in modern synths like Massive/Serum the selling point is the opposite :)
I used the massive x demo recently and it has convinced me to buy , made 3 insane intros to tracks. (Took pictures of the settings so I can recreate it 😂)
I have yet to hear how it does with sub frequency and I am especially interested in mono legato. For some reason I always run into problems with those two supposedly simple areas with synths. I don't feel I should buy anything else until I figure that part of patch creating out.
sounds like the biggest difference is in the effects section......can't say either one sounds 'better' as they both sound great, they just sound different
Massive x has received a lot of hate. I just dont get it. The synth sounds amazing. The more i master it the sounds im getting out of this synth are mind blowing. I will admit this synth for beginners it's to deep to use as a learning synth. But if your experienced and are willing to put in the time to learn massive x tghe rewards are worth the effort.
I’m going to disagree with this statement. Phase Plant is far far better. Massive is still a great synth but best VST is a bold statement. I’d say second would be Serum since it can do Massive sounds and then some
@@elissitdesign Well, each synth is different in sound and function. Considering is still kind of a beta version, I'm positive that MASSIVE X will be a good allrounder. Best, Tom
@@ProductionMusicLive it was already in beta version, this is a full v1 release, which is imo why it's getting such a bad reception. Its a v1 release, but it provides a beta experience. It was released unfinished.
Needs some chorus and cutoff automation on the last note, other than that, pretty close. But what synth would that be if it couldn't do simple saw wave with filter envelope? 🙂
Great video, I think excusing Massive X as not being fully developed is not acceptable considering they pushed back the release date so much. It seems they took their good time with it ya know?.. Plus with Virtual Riot and Dubloadz disapproving the synth, honestly I'm not so interested in it. Sure Oolacile likes it but It seems like it's out of pity almost. Idk. Again though good video man, appreciate you doing this for us :)
depending, i cannot be objective after just 1or2 sine (this main lead) , François, can you made a 3 different major Tools (lead, bass, pad) for Techno, deep, progressive ?
I wish NI would market MassiveX better so it can catch on and get more patch designers involved. It is MUCH easier to use on top of just being a better quality synth.
Olivio Sarikas It doesn’t currently, but I heard in a different overview video that it’ll be a feature that comes in an update. I find it weird that it’s not something they had ready for the initial release...
Well, there is a lot of critics because the synth isn't fully developed yet... however, I do really like it even more after working with it for some more hours. Best, Tom
@@ProductionMusicLive yeah sure, I've got it just a few hours ago! just trying some presets! Looking forward to see you guys exploring this vst to get inspired! I ám huge fan of your courses! Top!
Innovative design, with a very different face, it will take a while for many to get used to working on it, but studying it soon enough we should get used to it. Welcome back Massive X.Congratulations to Native Instruments Developers.
Having used the old MASSIVE over many years, I felt comfortable quicker with the new interface than I normally do (with a new synth). Also, I like the new design much more! Best, Tom
Yes, there are. I think it also depends on from what perspective you are looking at it. We have a lot of good synths out there already, and especially Artists have their favorite synths when it comes to making bass or making that raw lead sound, etc... haven't read Virtual Riots statement, though. Time will tell if this synth is going to have a place in the Top5 of the next years (also considering that there are still a punch of functions missing). Best, Tom
Because Massive heads like VR know Massive and when you get Massive X you're supposed to get an upgrade Massive not a new synth that you have to waste time on learning all over again. They shouldn't have called it Massive even if it is fundamentally similar to Massive because you could make an Organ Massive interface and make it sound and programmable like Massive but it never will be Massive. Massively inadequate.
Just upgraded... it's interesting, but missing a few bits. I miss the multiband comp that I got very used to in Serum, but not being able to easily retrigger LFOs on keypress was a very weird omission! I remember it was a while before the original Massive had proper LFO syncing though, so let's see what future updates bring.
These answers here are kind of subjective, but what most critics of massive X see is the lack of versatility compared to other synths now on the market. The first Massive and it's wavetables were revolutionary in its time, but this new synth comes nowhere ner 'game-changing'. Nowadays, we have synths like Kilohearts phase plant, which have effectively infinite oscillators that you can drop in or take out, route together and modulate each other with, as well as three dedicated effects lanes, each able to hold effectively infinite effects. Everything is visually responsive, which makes everything just a bit easier and more fun. Then, people look at Massive X. Only two wavetable oscillators and some noise oscillators, a minimum 6 effects at a time, and ADSR's with no visual response? These are the limitations people look at in disgust. That said, that doesn't make the synth bad, not by a long shot. It's still got a great sound and capabilities, just not at all what the world was expecting, with its many limitations.
Noise Osc. makes the difference by itself. MassiveX sounds clearer or cleaner. Honestly Massive is more a Spire, Sylenth1, Hive2, SynthmasterOne...challenger, where Massive X is more challenging Serum, Pigments2, Europa2, Sektor, Synthmaster2... Other synths like Dune3, Gladiator3, Electra2... play in another category. Fortunately how rich is our virtual synths realm !
those sounds on x can be recreated on the original. a little more work but still achieve and not too tough if you know the synth and daw you're working in...
massive x is not a another wavetable synth, it's unique, organic, at least you can found it has better sound engine, but also weird that not much sound bank released even after a year, and not much more users, tutorial video, tracks, but only hates.
I think it was released at time when the market is very saturated, plus they did not market it very well. NI are still releasing sound packs with original Massive patches because even the sound designers they commission only know Massive. Massive X is a top notch and extremely flexible synth.
NI are offering it as a very expensive upgrade. Whatever happened to the update? With so many alternative virtual synths NI should be much kinder to its incumbent base. Not for me at that price.
@@RealGriff86 Yes, but it is taking place at a different stage of the ADSR. It is holding the peak amplitude after the Attack but before the Decay is applying. Best, Tom
They sound completely different to me (I have both). Massive X sounds much more analog, warmer, filters are better tech, the oscillators sound better, fx are better... everything better really. I never was a big fan of the original Massive, but, Massive X is right up my alley, sound wise.
the massive had always shitty sound coming out from it, theres always plenty of post process needed and it still sounds its coming from massive, if no professional sound designer is doing stuff in massive you can tell its massive immediately. even pro have plenty plenty of work not to sound like its made in massive. its not only about the stereotypical wavetables but the whole sound experience. the massive x is much better.
Yes, even though I liked the old Massive, it was always quite easy to hear if the sound was made with Massive. For me, it lacked a bit power and (different than the mainstream perception) I did not like to use it for making Bass sounds. However, MASSIVE X is different. Much cleaner and solid foundation.
waiiiiiiiiit massive x aka massive 2 only has 2 oscillators????? sure the insert oscillators are handy, but they really dropped the ball imo. it should at least have the same amount of oscillators.filters.FX.modulation etc and the 2.0 version should add more features and improve on the existing content, not take away half of the features lol
"Massive X features two oscillators compared to Massive’s three, but actually has access to three more, via insert effects. There’s also a stack of extra wavetables to choose from and more Wavetable Modes." (source: MusicTech)
At first it might seem limiting but in fact as well as the three inserts you also have the option to use two of the LFOs as audibly oscillators so in total you have 7 plus unison voices.
I hate to say it, but it seems that Massive raised the standards so high that it's almost a waste of time to try to improve it as your demo shows they both sound very similar. NI is trying too hard now to keep us buying their stuff without providing real value in my opinion.
@@dacostadev It depends, Massive X is way more flexible, you can patch different modules almost any way you want. It sounds like a modern hardware synth like the old Massive but with much better effects (the reverbs are so good) and the oscillators have very interesting modes too. Also I find it easier to make good sounding patches with the new Massive but the downside is that you have way more control regarding routing modules which could be a bit daunting for beginners.
I'll gladly stick to my Vengeance Avenger and is "massive" number of oscillators, envelopes, filters, lfo's, arp's, shapers, and drum sequencer, and more... all for exactly the same cost as X. Thanks, but no thanks NI. They have made a decent synth, but there is nothing massive nor earth-shaking about it.
So many synths so little time.
where is that comparison? You only play Massive X.
The point of this comparison was to show the differences in sound only between
the new and old Massive, which I think it does well. Massive X sounds more
"modern" in the sense that its oscillators' waveforms are cleaner and less
distorted-sounding, which has been one of the selling points of Serum over
many other synths. Whether that's a good thing depends on what sounds
are desired in a given context; there's nothing wrong with "dirty" oscillators
if they get the sound you need. Cleaner basic waveforms, thouhg also "thinner"
sounding, do allow wider variation in programming procedures, which many
sound designers, particularly those who appreciate Serum, will applaud. Other
videos have demonstrated that, if you want dirty, Massive X will do dirty, but with
more precise variation control and hence finer control over timbre than old Massive.
If you don't enjoy spending hours tweaking your way into total confusion and just
want something that does the job at a useful level in a way you're familiar with, any
new synth is really going to have to sell itself by offering something irresistible, so
that yet another steep learning curve will pay for itself - eventually. In addition to
the financial issues, then, the question "How much time ya got?" is also crucial.
Very good point! Curious to explore MASSIVE X further the next weeks. Best, Tom
With analog synths the only selling point is "are the waveforms drifing/fuzzy/noisy/warm enough" and in modern synths like Massive/Serum the selling point is the opposite :)
i love this tone so freakin much. deep and dreamyl Massive X sounds fantastic
I used the massive x demo recently and it has convinced me to buy , made 3 insane intros to tracks. (Took pictures of the settings so I can recreate it 😂)
I have yet to hear how it does with sub frequency and I am especially interested in mono legato. For some reason I always run into problems with those two supposedly simple areas with synths.
I don't feel I should buy anything else until I figure that part of patch creating out.
Hell
Thank you for the Tutorial....
but can you tell me what Presets are u using in this Tutorial??....thank you
ALL TECHNO TEMPLATES IS FIRE.. I'M SPEECHLESS:)
Dope🔥🔥
Long shot, but what theme is this? Really like the shade of bluish grey but can't seem to find it.
Massive X isn’t the same synth in any way.
They’re just using the Massive name for marketing.
is it better or?
BFHPET To me it is , I bought it and been enjoying it making pretty cool beats with it
It’s the same in the sense that it’s a massive synthesizer. . . Literally
Excellent
sounds like the biggest difference is in the effects section......can't say either one sounds 'better' as they both sound great, they just sound different
Massive x has received a lot of hate. I just dont get it. The synth sounds amazing. The more i master it the sounds im getting out of this synth are mind blowing. I will admit this synth for beginners it's to deep to use as a learning synth. But if your experienced and are willing to put in the time to learn massive x tghe rewards are worth the effort.
Massive X has got to be the best VST ever created .. also considering NI will probably roll out frequent update's to improve & add stuff as it goes..
check phaseplant
I’m going to disagree with this statement. Phase Plant is far far better.
Massive is still a great synth but best VST is a bold statement. I’d say second would be Serum since it can do Massive sounds and then some
@@elissitdesign Well, each synth is different in sound and function. Considering is still kind of a beta version, I'm positive that MASSIVE X will be a good allrounder. Best, Tom
@@ProductionMusicLive it was already in beta version, this is a full v1 release, which is imo why it's getting such a bad reception. Its a v1 release, but it provides a beta experience. It was released unfinished.
What about ableton wavetable ?
Is there any reason you chose to put the delay after the reverb? Just seemed like an odd choice
Looks very different. However, when start using X version it reminds me in some way the old version.
Needs some chorus and cutoff automation on the last note, other than that, pretty close. But what synth would that be if it couldn't do simple saw wave with filter envelope? 🙂
Great video, I think excusing Massive X as not being fully developed is not acceptable considering they pushed back the release date so much. It seems they took their good time with it ya know?..
Plus with Virtual Riot and Dubloadz disapproving the synth, honestly I'm not so interested in it. Sure Oolacile likes it but It seems like it's out of pity almost. Idk.
Again though good video man, appreciate you doing this for us :)
depending, i cannot be objective after just 1or2 sine (this main lead) , François, can you made a 3 different major Tools (lead, bass, pad) for Techno, deep, progressive ?
I wish NI would market MassiveX better so it can catch on and get more patch designers involved. It is MUCH easier to use on top of just being a better quality synth.
The graphic of the Envelop Modulation is not changing when you turn the knobs? That's very strange. Is that really not build into Massive X?
Olivio Sarikas It doesn’t currently, but I heard in a different overview video that it’ll be a feature that comes in an update. I find it weird that it’s not something they had ready for the initial release...
@@excape_artist Yes, that's right. They still working on that as on some other stuff.
And what's the bottom line. Does it feel good working with it or is it annoying?
Well, there is a lot of critics because the synth isn't fully developed yet... however, I do really like it even more after working with it for some more hours. Best, Tom
And where was the direct comparison with the old one now??
Your voice is similar to virtual riots voice
That might be the German accent! ;)
Massive X got more advanced tools/ knobs to polish the sound, I think!
Are you happy with it so far?
@@ProductionMusicLive yeah sure, I've got it just a few hours ago! just trying some presets! Looking forward to see you guys exploring this vst to get inspired! I ám huge fan of your courses! Top!
Where is Francois?
The old Massive sounds very.. 'Massive', not in a 'big' meaning.. Massive X sounds different
I agree. The main difference seems to be the sound. As far as I have discovered it MASSIVE X as more "power"...
@@ProductionMusicLive "the old massive sounds different" "I agree the main difference seems to be the sound" lmaoo
Innovative design, with a very different face, it will take a while for many to get used to working on it, but studying it soon enough we should get used to it. Welcome back Massive X.Congratulations to Native Instruments Developers.
Having used the old MASSIVE over many years, I felt comfortable quicker with the new interface than I normally do (with a new synth). Also, I like the new design much more! Best, Tom
Do you recomend one of this plugins as indispensible to make deep house ? cheers
cool
I know that some artists like Virtual Riot aren’t very impressed with it. Why is that?
Yes, there are. I think it also depends on from what perspective you are looking at it. We have a lot of good synths out there already, and especially Artists have their favorite synths when it comes to making bass or making that raw lead sound, etc... haven't read Virtual Riots statement, though. Time will tell if this synth is going to have a place in the Top5 of the next years (also considering that there are still a punch of functions missing). Best, Tom
Because Massive heads like VR know Massive and when you get Massive X you're supposed to get an upgrade Massive not a new synth that you have to waste time on learning all over again.
They shouldn't have called it Massive even if it is fundamentally similar to Massive because you could make an Organ Massive interface and make it sound and programmable like Massive but it never will be Massive. Massively inadequate.
Just upgraded... it's interesting, but missing a few bits. I miss the multiband comp that I got very used to in Serum, but not being able to easily retrigger LFOs on keypress was a very weird omission! I remember it was a while before the original Massive had proper LFO syncing though, so let's see what future updates bring.
These answers here are kind of subjective, but what most critics of massive X see is the lack of versatility compared to other synths now on the market. The first Massive and it's wavetables were revolutionary in its time, but this new synth comes nowhere ner 'game-changing'. Nowadays, we have synths like Kilohearts phase plant, which have effectively infinite oscillators that you can drop in or take out, route together and modulate each other with, as well as three dedicated effects lanes, each able to hold effectively infinite effects. Everything is visually responsive, which makes everything just a bit easier and more fun. Then, people look at Massive X. Only two wavetable oscillators and some noise oscillators, a minimum 6 effects at a time, and ADSR's with no visual response? These are the limitations people look at in disgust.
That said, that doesn't make the synth bad, not by a long shot. It's still got a great sound and capabilities, just not at all what the world was expecting, with its many limitations.
Noise Osc. makes the difference by itself. MassiveX sounds clearer or cleaner.
Honestly Massive is more a Spire, Sylenth1, Hive2, SynthmasterOne...challenger, where Massive X is more challenging Serum, Pigments2, Europa2, Sektor, Synthmaster2... Other synths like Dune3, Gladiator3, Electra2... play in another category.
Fortunately how rich is our virtual synths realm !
TOP
Will it cut through the mix
In this example? Well, it certainly needs different EQing... but yes! Best, Tom
those sounds on x can be recreated on the original. a little more work but still achieve and not too tough if you know the synth and daw you're working in...
massive x is not a another wavetable synth, it's unique, organic, at least you can found it has better sound engine, but also weird that not much sound bank released even after a year, and not much more users, tutorial video, tracks, but only hates.
I think it was released at time when the market is very saturated, plus they did not market it very well. NI are still releasing sound packs with original Massive patches because even the sound designers they commission only know Massive. Massive X is a top notch and extremely flexible synth.
Keep the old one...
We will keep the old one as well. MASSIVE X isn't supposed to be a substitution of the old one.
@@easydp Yes
i just love massive x its funny good look and because of massive x i make my own sounds and it has modern day sounds
NI are offering it as a very expensive upgrade. Whatever happened to the update? With so many alternative virtual synths NI should be much kinder to its incumbent base. Not for me at that price.
A'H'DSR???
Hold
@@ryanpaulretouch I don't understand, holding the key is sustain?
@@RealGriff86 Yes, but it is taking place at a different stage of the ADSR. It is holding the peak amplitude after the Attack but before the Decay is applying. Best, Tom
@@ProductionMusicLive interesting - is this an NI thing or is this being inserted across the industry?
@@RealGriff86 It has been in serum for years. Have also seen hold in other synths. Its not a new thing
They sound completely different to me (I have both). Massive X sounds much more analog, warmer, filters are better tech, the oscillators sound better, fx are better... everything better really. I never was a big fan of the original Massive, but, Massive X is right up my alley, sound wise.
finally starts at 1:30
THE ENVELOPE DOESN'T MOVE WHEN CHANGING PARAMETERS ??????????????????????????
feels bad
THEY FIXED IT IN A PATCH IMMA BUY IT
Det same!!
the massive had always shitty sound coming out from it, theres always plenty of post process needed and it still sounds its coming from massive, if no professional sound designer is doing stuff in massive you can tell its massive immediately. even pro have plenty plenty of work not to sound like its made in massive. its not only about the stereotypical wavetables but the whole sound experience. the massive x is much better.
Yes, even though I liked the old Massive, it was always quite easy to hear if the sound was made with Massive. For me, it lacked a bit power and (different than the mainstream perception) I did not like to use it for making Bass sounds. However, MASSIVE X is different. Much cleaner and solid foundation.
waiiiiiiiiit
massive x aka massive 2 only has 2 oscillators?????
sure the insert oscillators are handy, but they really dropped the ball imo.
it should at least have the same amount of oscillators.filters.FX.modulation etc
and the 2.0 version should add more features and improve on the existing content, not take away half of the features lol
I kept looking for the 3rd osc for ages. 👎😖
"Massive X features two oscillators compared to Massive’s three, but actually has access to three more, via insert effects. There’s also a stack of extra wavetables to choose from and more Wavetable Modes." (source: MusicTech)
At first it might seem limiting but in fact as well as the three inserts you also have the option to use two of the LFOs as audibly oscillators so in total you have 7 plus unison voices.
6:45 it’s poly, not pouly. How would you say polyphonic? Poulyphounic?
I hate to say it, but it seems that Massive raised the standards so high that it's almost a waste of time to try to improve it as your demo shows they both sound very similar. NI is trying too hard now to keep us buying their stuff without providing real value in my opinion.
The definition of a true artist. Throw away any pre mixed paint and mix ur own!
I ate my words, I purchased it later and It is the best synth I have ever had
@@lost_valleywould you recommend it? Instead of buying Old Massive version?
@@dacostadev It depends, Massive X is way more flexible, you can patch different modules almost any way you want. It sounds like a modern hardware synth like the old Massive but with much better effects (the reverbs are so good) and the oscillators have very interesting modes too. Also I find it easier to make good sounding patches with the new Massive but the downside is that you have way more control regarding routing modules which could be a bit daunting for beginners.
I'll gladly stick to my Vengeance Avenger and is "massive" number of oscillators, envelopes, filters, lfo's, arp's, shapers, and drum sequencer, and more... all for exactly the same cost as X. Thanks, but no thanks NI. They have made a decent synth, but there is nothing massive nor earth-shaking about it.
It gives me a headache just looking at it.
You lost me when you played the first comparison and then talked for another day and a half before playing the side by side.
Massive 1 - Massive X 0