It has come to my attention that there is a tentative plan for a dedicated SEHSR platform a little north of Raleigh Union Station that will technically be part of the station, but about a 500ft walk from the station. Given this future possibility and the level-crossing of NS track in the same area, I think at-grade there for dedicated HSR tracks is probably a bad choice. I looked more closely at the "possible tunnel?" 11:46 and it looks pretty doable on either end with some complications from a nearby creek. That would be 2 miles long, run under Raleigh Union Station, and add about $2 billion to the cost. It would save a few minutes. EDIT: I have continued looking at this since it will start the Raleigh-Charlotte video. After looking at all the plans and technical drawings available it appears that routing and stopping at the currently planned Raleigh platform is possible sans backup maneuver. However, there is only room there for 2 electrified tracks, no passing at the station, and only the single platform. Also, west of there its better to end up on the south side of current tracks than north, and a tunnel would avoid the level crossing of Norfolk Southern directly west of Raleigh Union. All of that seems to reinforce the idea that a tunnel and underground platforms are the superior choice for a true HSR service. However, that does not settle the issue! Overall, Raleigh is a highly imperfect, but necessary stop. I'll talk more about that in the Raleigh-Charlotte video.
@@bjturon If you're aiming for dedicated electrified tracks, I don't think you can fit the tracks, the platform, the NS track and the CSX track there, so it might need to be a tunnel from the CSX yard to about where the prison is.
Canada be like for HFR turning HSR when they’ll be electrifying and originally running 125mph/200km/h a former CP corridor and extra tracks in other corridors.
It’s not about the M.P.H., it’s the H.P.M. Upgrading from 79 to 110 saves 13 seconds per mile. Saving another 13 seconds requires increasing the speed to *181 MPH.*
@@spencerjoplin2885 thing is, 165-185mph isn’t even particularly insane to expect these days. France manages much higher speeds than that, so does China, and both China and Japan are currently looking at 300mph speeds for their maglev systems Also, it’s not about the seconds per mile, it’s about the minutes per JOURNEY that’s important. 110mph is not saving you enough time for the system to be competitive… 140-165mph however is, and 185-200mph would be a completely reasonable target to expect given America’s budget and resources and expertise. I mean, if America can beat the rest of the world to stealth aircraft by 40 years… I think they should be able to get a halfway decent HSR network by the 2030s!
Thank you for all of your high-quality renders! It is doubtful (to put it mildly) if high-speed rail can ever be built in the US, but one can only advocate for a better tomorrow if one has a mental image of said future. You are providing a tremendously-important resource to advocates of rejuvenated American rail ❤
You have General Motors and racism to thank for that unfortunately - Richmond had THE FIRST and one of the most lively electrified trolley systems in the US and like many other cities in the 40s and 50s, GM lobbied officials to let the trolleys fall into disrepair and replace them with ✨Bus✨ and in the following decades “White Flight” was in full effect with white collar Richmonders retreating to the suburbs and their personal gas cars to avoid having to ever be in contact with “city folk” - no need to deal with the awkwardness of the integration of city busses when you don’t ride them anymore. Higher ups in Richmond thought that cutting up the forgotten downtown with a highway might somehow increase economic growth? But it was also a tool to divide historically black neighborhoods, same goes for the Downtown expressway. It’s really sad as a Richmond resident to know we will never have electric light rail again despite being the FIRST to ever have it circa 1890 - at least the bus is free I guess…
As a UNC Chapel Hill student, I can only dream of the HSR expansion to the Southeast but I can hope that the S line project is going to be completed sooner rather than later.
Tentative completion to Wake Forest is 2033, so it unfortunately could be a long time until the entire thing is done. It likely depends partly on funding. They have about another $6 billion to find.
I live in Chapel Hill currently. It is definitely disappointing that there is no rail link between Chapel Hill and Durham. At least increase the frequency of the 400 bus if you aren’t going to build rail.
@@XxrashadthelengendxX Them not wanting it is very ironic because they had a literal train running through their hospital. It was called the PRT and closed about 16 years ago
So what's your thoughts about Rep. Seth Moulton when he said that NCDOT is making a huge mistake in this project by not making it true HSR from the start.
I agree. My thought is get it done between D.C. and Atlanta before its too late. This is the fastest growing part of the country and also one of the cheapest to build in(for now). These projects take 30 years to put in place. If we wait a generation, its just going to be that much more difficult to make it happen.
I think that's the intention. NC is in an interesting position with regard to SEHSR. With Charlotte being closer to Atlanta and Raleigh being closer to DC, and the state growing very rapidly primarily around those two cities, it's a key state for SE connection.
11:43 Rather than having trains reversing into the station, it seems more likely to me that the station would be relocated slightly further south (e.g. between W Cabarrus St and W South Street) as that's just much better operationally. Anyway great video showcasing the additional benefits of going straight for high speed rather than faffing around with upgrading the existing lines, which, given it could cost in the range of $7bn, makes the $12bn cost of a proper dedicated high speed line look very appealing indeed, especially considering the benefits it would bring would be orders of magnitude higher than what is being proposed at the moment!
They have some vague plan to have Raleigh Union platforms for SEHSR at some point. I'm not sure how long it will take to build the whole thing. Probably a while. The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of a tunnel avoiding that whole mess. It would likely be $2-3 billion, though.
@LucidStew yeah such an expensive tunnel seems like a good way do kill off any hopes of a true HSR line being built so I think it's more likely they try to do some sort of upgrade/relocation of the existing station but I suppose it ultimately remains to be seen because nothing we're discussing here is certain at this stage!
Thanks for these kinds of Videos! Its exactly the the niche content i searched for a long time. Really glad you are making these👏🏻👏🏻 Greetings from Germany
Do I see right that you managed to manipulate the google earth footage in a subtractive way (e.g. 6:08)? Anyway, the new landscape blending and the freight trains look great!
I love watching these and I appreciate the work that goes into them. But...I'm 75 and won't live to see any of it. After last week's election I would say the outlook is bleak for any U.S. rail passenger progress, high speed or otherwise. 😢
0:59 scuttlebutt is that *Garrett Graves* (R-LA) will be the next TransSec. Start brainstorming a musical hook. ChatGPT recommended “When the Saints Go Marching In”.
Itll be interesting to see where Amtrak goes with Richmond. I’d love to see all traffic go through Main Street. It’s a great station with lots of potential and it would get riders much closer to downtown and connected to other transit options. Think about it: a second track could be rebuilt on both the Peninsula and Bellwood Subs along with platform access to all four tracks. This would serve S-Line and other thru services. Then, up to four terminal platform tracks could be constructed between the Peninsula and Bellwood (may require some realignment on the Bellwood) for trains with Richmond as a southern terminus. This could supplement VPRA’s plan for hourly NER service. I have a huge vision for Main Street station, but I unfortunately do not hold design skills as amazing as yours. I always wondered how the R2R trains would make it in and out of Raleigh Union. Do you think a second platform could be constructed on the northwest part of the wye to avoid a backup maneuver? I’m also surprised that a lot of the S-Line will be single tracked, but maybe the siding tracks can be linked up in the future.
Its so crazy to me that the small cities around LA, where I live, like Downey, El Monte or Glendale are bigger than or comparable to like the capitols of other states.
In my opinion, I think the Azela Express should expand further north to Portland ME from Boston. Second, on the south end, run two lines: DC to Birmingham, in phases: DC to Raleigh NC, Raleigh NC to Charlotte NC via Greensboro SC, Charlotte to ATL GA, and ATL to Birmingham AL. Future expansions in the far future can be I-20 all the way to Dallas TX. Of course, hopefully by then, the Texas triangle will be covered in some form or fashion. DC to Orlando, in phases: DC to Raleigh NC, Raleigh NC to Fayettenam (I call it that), Fayetteville NC to Savannah GA, to Jacksonville FL, and then double track the east-west of Brightline to Orlando Intl Airport (or better to near Disney World). Let Brightline have the fast train to Miami and Tampa and let Amtrak slow train handle the Tampa run.
A reminder that Amtrak has TWO profitable links. 1) NE Corridor, and 2) Auto Train, from Lorton, VA (ie. Washington DC) and Sanford, FL (i.e. Orlando). Success doesn't require high speed, it only requires being more useful and affordable than the alternatives. A second reminder: Florida is the third most populous state -- it passed NYS as of the last census, and FL is still growing and NYS is still shrinking. Perhaps FL should get more Amtrak money...
Brightline to Tampa and Jacksonville will pretty much eliminate Amtrak in Florida unless Amtrak chooses to extend their route from Mississippi to Jacksonville.
florida might be bigger, but its all suburb which isnt favorable for railways. the northeast has numbers and density, which is partly why the NEC is so effective
Could you look into the Richmond to Norfolk chances for High/higher speed rail? its an odd right of way that has some really obvious solutions! maybe as a mini episode like thing!
Richmond to Newport News and Richmond to Norfolk are both part of the corridor. I'll probably put them in the same video since they're close to each other.
For Raleigh-Charlotte HSR, if you follow the existing alignment and not take a more direct route via US 64/NC 49, with a stop at the NC Zoo in Asheboro, I'll be sad.
@johnlabus7359 Fair enough. You include those areas and it's actually a lot closer to 3m (those combined net about 1m), but you're right that the CSA is nearing/surpassed 2.4m as of 2024, and I'd say the CSA is a better way of analyzing the active metro population, ie people residing, working, and living all across the Triangle. While RM, Fayetteville, and Burlington/Mebane all feed off the Triangle, they're distinct enough and distant enough that I'd say it's right to distinguish them from the metro. The purpose of my comment was to really differentiate/emphasize that the metro population of Raleigh was a lot more significant than described, and our entire CSA really is one big sprawling megalopolis.
The northeast has a much higher population density and older growth. Southern cities are hours apart by car. The good news is it should be easier to create true HSR routes with fewer demolitions along the way.
Dude I love your content. Content suggestions: what if you did stews news for world wide developments. Just like your Australia video getting a lot of views. You could also do one for Canada
I will do international content every now and then, but the main focus of the channel is the United States. Once I'm done with the SEHSR corridor, Toronto to Quebec City connecting to 3 U.S. HSR corridors is next. Hopefully by then there will be more information about the HSR plans that have been speculated about.
If you haven’t done so already, does this mean that after Raleigh to Charlotte, that you’ll do a Charlotte to Atlanta vid? It would be cool to see combined travel times and demand for a full-fledged “Southeast Corridor” line (or that’s what I would dub a Richmond-Atlanta line, at least).
As a frequent driver of this route, occasional Amtrak rider on current service, and certain future rider, the most fantasy part of this idea is highway 1 towards Raleigh. NIMBY’s will kill it, and NCDOT is still salivating at their car dystopian plan to destroy Capital Blvd inside I-540 to make it interstate lite.
It'll be interesting to see how successful Brightline West is using the freeway median. If it's very, then that could encourage other US high speed rail projects to use freeway medians too.
So how much faster could we make it without ballooning the budget, like could we do 400kph trains for only 5 billion more? Would it cost times to be faster than flight even without the airport time penalty?
I went by the EIS and didn't bother measuring curves on the plan, but I'm pretty sure parts of the right of way are fine for 125mph on geometry. Since its already planned to be completely grade separated, they'd likely need to adjust tracks a little and throw up a couple hundred miles of fence to seal it.
The Raleigh area build is NOT going to happen, no matter what, in that form... but still a nice thought. Since Richmond to Raleigh is very good I-85 for 75% of that distance, a better solution is building an expressway to bypass and parallel US 1 south into Raleigh from I-85 in the north.
If you find U.S. 1 improbable, I would argue for the greenfield south of Henderson and then hooking back into the planned R2R route north of Youngsville. That would be about the same time and cost-wise.
Bro, I want to know why they rejected the 185 to 200mph option, I know money can be an issue but like $12.1 billion that's definitely worth it!! Like does nobody in FRA or whatever even think about the future?
They believed that the dedicated right of way required would run into too much opposition, be too expensive given the available ridership, and take too long to construct. The Tier II EIS does mention the possibility of conversion to electric at some vague point in the future.
@@LucidStew as long as the opportunity is there. Even if electrification only marginally improves travel times, the ability for thru-running to/from the NEC is huge. Honestly should be electrified rail all the way from DC to Atlanta, even if it's a mix of high and higher speed rail. Hopefully over time the speeds will be increased from 110 to 125 mph.
@ that’s a bit absurd, I feel like realistically, nobody should be opposing it especially when everyone wants to be environmentally friendly. True high-speed trains are literally essential for fighting climate change. Also, if you consistently spend money on high-speed rail, then it won’t cost as much
@@RailMan102_Productions You're being a bit optimistic about the motives of the opposition, eh? The people that oppose it do not care about climate change, they would burn the entire earth to ash if it prevented them from losing a single parking space. Obviously it would be better for everyone and for the future to do it right the first time (and I'm sure the FRA would like nothing better than to do so), but that's hard when people who would turn Paris into a 20 lane highway if given the opportunity are opposing you and they are half the people in the country. It's bleak out there, we have to take the wins where we get them 🥴 especially now...
I'm not even sure if that data is available anywhere. I certainly haven't found it. From some estimates I've seen, nationwide combined ridership is similar to Amtrak's. The 1,400 in the video for Amtrak is likely overstated by a bit, so it may even out. It's probably still in the ballpark of 6,500 trips/day on the high end.
Personally, I think that average speeds (including stops + acceleration/deceleration time penalties) of under 150mph is unacceptable for a "true" high-speed line (at least for express services, that is). I've been working on creating a US/Canadian national HSR alignment map for a couple years now, which has definitely made me aware of how much those high standards would cost, both financially and politically. But for once-in-a-generation infrastructure like this, we really can't afford to 'value-engineer' our way into something sub-par that millions of people in future generations will have to pay the indirect costs for. It's also why this really needs to be an initiative done via a national master-plan, with part of that master-plan being several major legal reforms that would actually enable us to bring costs down enough to make such high standards financially viable. The worst thing we could do wold be to approach North American HSR in a project-to-project fashion leading to differing standards and the resulting massive inefficiencies that would come from that.
@@RichardinNC1 I think it was actually prompted by financials and funding/commitment from the Reynolds' family in addition to room to expand the college.
The freight rail companies are generally opposed to passenger rail infrastructure and operations impacting their business, and you're dealing with them to some extent unless bypassing their rights of way completely. In general catenary and high speed is something they're going to oppose too close to their tracks.
@@LucidStew CAHSR is having that issue with UP between Gilroy and San Jose, and is working on an agreement with them. It'll make electrifying LA to Fullerton interesting, though maybe BNSF is more open to the idea than UP is.
We need more faster rail lines. It makes no sense to spend more for true high speed rail. We just need to improve what we have and make it’s rideable. Beggars can’t be choosers! What we have now just isn’t acceptable and funding is a constant battle
Well now that national high speed rail is over because of Trump, I can finally get back to watching GTA 5 lore videos! Please notify me when your April Fool’s video about Nebraska - High Speed Rail occurs (hopefully April 1st) Regards, - Gumby
The reality is that no train in the southeastern portion of USA reaches 110 mph now. The planned speed of 125 mph or so is not yet allowed on the portion of Brightline between Cocoa and Orlando. (In South FL the max speed is 79 mph.) It would be great to have R2R achieve the 110-mph maximum. ---- The scary thing is that Brightline East is losing tons of money. I hope that situation improves. California HSR rail is a huge miscalculation. That situation is so bad that I'm not wasting my emotions hoping that it improves. The whole California system will never be built. There will not be money to blast through those mountains. ---- Illinois has 110 mph service. Michigan has 110 mph service. Why? Those states participate in the State-Amtrak partnership. 18 states. Those states are willing to financially support passenger rail. Georgia and Ohio do not partner with Amtrak/FRA. That is why the last time I was in Atlanta I was on a 16 lane Interstate highway (death trap). With Trump, the 2035 Amtrak vision will be scaled back. Passenger rail improvements in North Carolina and Virginia may move forward because the VA GOP governor knows that he can't build any more highways and the GOP Senators in NC voted for the infrastructure bill. NCDOT Rail is doing a great job. I am so glad the NC is one of the State-Amtrak program partners. R2R will be a big step forward. I would like to see NC catch up with Michigan.
The only way California HSR isn't built all the way will be because of a lack of funding. Mountain crossings are nothing new for HSR, nor is crossing fault zones. Just look at Japan and Taiwan as examples. Plus it'll be more expensive, and less beneficial, in the long run to continue expanding freeways and airports to meet the same level of additional capacity needed that a 2-track HSR system will provide. Caltrans spent $18 billion on freeways in 2023 compared to less than $1 billion on HSR. The US is spending over $140 billion per year on road infrastructure compared to less than $20 billion on transit. In California, Caltrans spent $18 billion on freeways in 2023 compared to less than $1 billion on HSR that same year (and $12 billion total so far). However much of that road/freeway money is for widening projects, which are proven to only make traffic worse long term, should be redirected to transit. The US can more than afford to build high speed rail, and so too can California, if we're willing to build it. That's what it ultimately comes down to. If we're committed to making it happen, the funding will be found to make it happen.
@@ChrisJones-gx7fc I wish the world was like you imagine it to be. I sincerely do. When Trump came into office the first time, he snatched back $1 billion that Obama/Biden had given to California HSR. When Biden took office, he restored the $ and added to it. You write, "If we're committed to making it happen, the funding will be found to make it happen." The reality is that "we" are not pulling in the same direction.
I try not to gatekeep too much, but let's face it, we're inexperienced with the idea in the states. Brightline in Florida is called HSR all the time. Maybe operating CAHSR or Brightline West will open a few eyes.
@@LucidStew I do get that, but why should that be a barrier to creating a true high-speed service? There are several countries that have gone from only having 60-70mph train lines straight to 180-200mph lines. In some ways the American public are more accustomed to higher speeds with the few spots on the NEC that have them. Obviously things are politically bleak for HSR in the US at the moment, but when discussing what HSR could look like, especially in an aspirational way, why not hold the US to the same standards as the rest of the world? If you mean institutional experience, that is certainly a problem. But that can be fixed by importing that experience from any of the several nations that already have it in abundance. Of course we don't want to depend on that completely, but domestic knowledge can be built up over time by working with the imported expertise.
@@LucidStew I'd say that was Brightline pushing that term to make their Florida route sound more impressive, and the news media picking it up and running with it. Now so many critics of CAHSR cite Florida has having done high speed rail first, which is beyond frustrating. Brightline themselves need to just come clean and emphasize that their Florida route is higher speed, not high speed. Brightline West on the other hand will be high speed, but it's equally frustrating that they keep calling it America's first true high speed rail system when it just isn't. California HSR already beat them to that title with being the first to begin construction, and if it had been properly funded from the start, and hadn't been held up fighting frivolous litigation, also the first to begin service. BLW will in all likelihood be the first to claim the latter title, but they shouldn't be promoting themselves as if California HSR simply doesn't exist.
@@LucidStew given how quickly China was able to build out a proper HSR network, going from having nothing at all… I’d say the US certainly has the technical capability to go for proper HSR if it is sought after. I think the issue is more corporations and governments still being stuck in this mindset that public transport is mainly just for the poor, so why throw too much money at it? That’s what’s hampering this, not so much the lack of experience with building/operating HSR. Wouldn’t be so hard to bring in some technical know-how from Europe and Asia either, since most of America’s trains are already manufactured overseas
Two observations: 1) You select a 186 mph train... and then proceed to never discuss any speed over 135 mph? 2) The amount of say you Americans give to your freight railroads is absurd. Like when you highlighted two freight yards as obstacles to the Raleigh approach. Why not *prioritize* high speed passenger rail like in Europe and Asia... and MOVE those yards (whether NS and CSX likes it or not). Put simply: there will NEVER be HSR in USA as long as you keep giving UP, BNSF, NS & CSX a say. In other parts of the world, these companies would simply be ordered to move their operations the F out of the way, if they are allowed to keep ownership of track at all. A major millstone around US adoption of HSR is your insistence to not reuse land. When America was created, no such constraints existed. You simple drew your rail lines wherever it suited the purpose. You should remember this, America. It was key to your success then and it is mandatory for success now. Stop treating existing rail lines and highways as sacred, and start building STRAIGHT HSR rail lines, and rebuild the cars and freights AROUND the truly fast passenger rail instead... In other words, the government needs to use eminent domain to get old fossilized infrastructure out of the way. And since your videos are unconstrained, why don't you?
Also 177kmh 110mph is wirklich lächerlich. Das fahren die langsamsten ReginalExpress in Deutschland und anderswo in Europa. Das ist Unterste Kategorie und gehört seit den 1990er nicht mehr gebaut.
It has come to my attention that there is a tentative plan for a dedicated SEHSR platform a little north of Raleigh Union Station that will technically be part of the station, but about a 500ft walk from the station. Given this future possibility and the level-crossing of NS track in the same area, I think at-grade there for dedicated HSR tracks is probably a bad choice. I looked more closely at the "possible tunnel?" 11:46 and it looks pretty doable on either end with some complications from a nearby creek. That would be 2 miles long, run under Raleigh Union Station, and add about $2 billion to the cost. It would save a few minutes. EDIT: I have continued looking at this since it will start the Raleigh-Charlotte video. After looking at all the plans and technical drawings available it appears that routing and stopping at the currently planned Raleigh platform is possible sans backup maneuver. However, there is only room there for 2 electrified tracks, no passing at the station, and only the single platform. Also, west of there its better to end up on the south side of current tracks than north, and a tunnel would avoid the level crossing of Norfolk Southern directly west of Raleigh Union. All of that seems to reinforce the idea that a tunnel and underground platforms are the superior choice for a true HSR service. However, that does not settle the issue! Overall, Raleigh is a highly imperfect, but necessary stop. I'll talk more about that in the Raleigh-Charlotte video.
You can put in a new platform north of the station in your next video SEHSR, Raleigh-Charlotte.
Raleigh local here. Everything I've seen reported is that the Hargett St at-grade crossing would permanently close for the HSR station to be built
Your downplay on it is just a reaction for not realizing it was going to be there.
@@bjturon If you're aiming for dedicated electrified tracks, I don't think you can fit the tracks, the platform, the NS track and the CSX track there, so it might need to be a tunnel from the CSX yard to about where the prison is.
@@andrewbelter yes, that is in the Tier II EIS.
Four hour travel times from DC to Charlotte would be a game changer. Both cities are growing fast.
I already did the calculations. I have it under 4 hours. Don't tell anyone. :)
If you're already going to spend seven billion on a 110mph train you might as well spend 12 billion on a legit high speed line.
Even calling 110mph "high speed rail" is a joke 😂
Canada be like for HFR turning HSR when they’ll be electrifying and originally running 125mph/200km/h a former CP corridor and extra tracks in other corridors.
It’s not about the M.P.H., it’s the H.P.M. Upgrading from 79 to 110 saves 13 seconds per mile. Saving another 13 seconds requires increasing the speed to *181 MPH.*
Exactly!!
@@spencerjoplin2885 thing is, 165-185mph isn’t even particularly insane to expect these days. France manages much higher speeds than that, so does China, and both China and Japan are currently looking at 300mph speeds for their maglev systems
Also, it’s not about the seconds per mile, it’s about the minutes per JOURNEY that’s important. 110mph is not saving you enough time for the system to be competitive… 140-165mph however is, and 185-200mph would be a completely reasonable target to expect given America’s budget and resources and expertise.
I mean, if America can beat the rest of the world to stealth aircraft by 40 years… I think they should be able to get a halfway decent HSR network by the 2030s!
Imagine if we could get a fully electrified southeast corridor to compliment the northeast corridor
Oh that would be amazing but
At that point, we'd have a full eastern corridor
That would be great
Would be even better if an extension is built from Atlanta to Jacksonville and Orlando. That would serve a lot more people in Florida
D.C. and up is so fast. Its like going from bicycle to a ground airplane.
Chad I-85 was not on my Stew bingo card, but there it is!
Chad I-85 has you on its bingo card because that's what a Chad I-85 would do.
Thank you for all of your high-quality renders! It is doubtful (to put it mildly) if high-speed rail can ever be built in the US, but one can only advocate for a better tomorrow if one has a mental image of said future. You are providing a tremendously-important resource to advocates of rejuvenated American rail ❤
I don't like the I-95 highway in downtown Richmond near the train station. I don't know how they got away with this.
Agreed. Sad to see a massive ugly highway to loom right over the beautiful station
You have General Motors and racism to thank for that unfortunately - Richmond had THE FIRST and one of the most lively electrified trolley systems in the US and like many other cities in the 40s and 50s, GM lobbied officials to let the trolleys fall into disrepair and replace them with ✨Bus✨ and in the following decades “White Flight” was in full effect with white collar Richmonders retreating to the suburbs and their personal gas cars to avoid having to ever be in contact with “city folk” - no need to deal with the awkwardness of the integration of city busses when you don’t ride them anymore. Higher ups in Richmond thought that cutting up the forgotten downtown with a highway might somehow increase economic growth? But it was also a tool to divide historically black neighborhoods, same goes for the Downtown expressway. It’s really sad as a Richmond resident to know we will never have electric light rail again despite being the FIRST to ever have it circa 1890 - at least the bus is free I guess…
As a UNC Chapel Hill student, I can only dream of the HSR expansion to the Southeast but I can hope that the S line project is going to be completed sooner rather than later.
Tentative completion to Wake Forest is 2033, so it unfortunately could be a long time until the entire thing is done. It likely depends partly on funding. They have about another $6 billion to find.
I live in Chapel Hill currently. It is definitely disappointing that there is no rail link between Chapel Hill and Durham.
At least increase the frequency of the 400 bus if you aren’t going to build rail.
@@HIDLad001it’s duke hospitals fault that Durham/ Chapel Hill doesn’t have one
@@XxrashadthelengendxX Them not wanting it is very ironic because they had a literal train running through their hospital. It was called the PRT and closed about 16 years ago
Thanks!
Thank you! We're about 1/3 of the way to sales tax.
So what's your thoughts about Rep. Seth Moulton when he said that NCDOT is making a huge mistake in this project by not making it true HSR from the start.
I agree. My thought is get it done between D.C. and Atlanta before its too late. This is the fastest growing part of the country and also one of the cheapest to build in(for now). These projects take 30 years to put in place. If we wait a generation, its just going to be that much more difficult to make it happen.
This really needs to go all the way to Charlotte to be honest. Have it cover the big cities in NC and it would be an absolute juggernaut of a route
I think that's the intention.
NC is in an interesting position with regard to SEHSR. With Charlotte being closer to Atlanta and Raleigh being closer to DC, and the state growing very rapidly primarily around those two cities, it's a key state for SE connection.
@@johnlabus7359 an excellent state to bridge the gap between two halves of the network, NEC HSR and SEHSR, totally agreed.
It would be awesome to get high speed rail in Raleigh
11:43 Rather than having trains reversing into the station, it seems more likely to me that the station would be relocated slightly further south (e.g. between W Cabarrus St and W South Street) as that's just much better operationally.
Anyway great video showcasing the additional benefits of going straight for high speed rather than faffing around with upgrading the existing lines, which, given it could cost in the range of $7bn, makes the $12bn cost of a proper dedicated high speed line look very appealing indeed, especially considering the benefits it would bring would be orders of magnitude higher than what is being proposed at the moment!
They have some vague plan to have Raleigh Union platforms for SEHSR at some point. I'm not sure how long it will take to build the whole thing. Probably a while. The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of a tunnel avoiding that whole mess. It would likely be $2-3 billion, though.
@LucidStew yeah such an expensive tunnel seems like a good way do kill off any hopes of a true HSR line being built so I think it's more likely they try to do some sort of upgrade/relocation of the existing station but I suppose it ultimately remains to be seen because nothing we're discussing here is certain at this stage!
Thanks for these kinds of Videos! Its exactly the the niche content i searched for a long time. Really glad you are making these👏🏻👏🏻
Greetings from Germany
Do I see right that you managed to manipulate the google earth footage in a subtractive way (e.g. 6:08)?
Anyway, the new landscape blending and the freight trains look great!
nicely spotted! Thank you!
I love watching these and I appreciate the work that goes into them. But...I'm 75 and won't live to see any of it. After last week's election I would say the outlook is bleak for any U.S. rail passenger progress, high speed or otherwise. 😢
These things have gone back and forth for decades.
We shall see about HSR funding but regulations and red tape could be reduced. It might end up being more on the states to provide funding.
0:59 scuttlebutt is that *Garrett Graves* (R-LA) will be the next TransSec. Start brainstorming a musical hook.
ChatGPT recommended “When the Saints Go Marching In”.
I have him saying "is it going to take an act of Congress for you to clean your room?", which isn't bad.
Itll be interesting to see where Amtrak goes with Richmond. I’d love to see all traffic go through Main Street. It’s a great station with lots of potential and it would get riders much closer to downtown and connected to other transit options. Think about it: a second track could be rebuilt on both the Peninsula and Bellwood Subs along with platform access to all four tracks. This would serve S-Line and other thru services. Then, up to four terminal platform tracks could be constructed between the Peninsula and Bellwood (may require some realignment on the Bellwood) for trains with Richmond as a southern terminus. This could supplement VPRA’s plan for hourly NER service. I have a huge vision for Main Street station, but I unfortunately do not hold design skills as amazing as yours.
I always wondered how the R2R trains would make it in and out of Raleigh Union. Do you think a second platform could be constructed on the northwest part of the wye to avoid a backup maneuver?
I’m also surprised that a lot of the S-Line will be single tracked, but maybe the siding tracks can be linked up in the future.
Its so crazy to me that the small cities around LA, where I live, like Downey, El Monte or Glendale are bigger than or comparable to like the capitols of other states.
Yeah, Richmond is like Fontana.
In my opinion, I think the Azela Express should expand further north to Portland ME from Boston.
Second, on the south end, run two lines:
DC to Birmingham, in phases: DC to Raleigh NC, Raleigh NC to Charlotte NC via Greensboro SC, Charlotte to ATL GA, and ATL to Birmingham AL. Future expansions in the far future can be I-20 all the way to Dallas TX. Of course, hopefully by then, the Texas triangle will be covered in some form or fashion.
DC to Orlando, in phases: DC to Raleigh NC, Raleigh NC to Fayettenam (I call it that), Fayetteville NC to Savannah GA, to Jacksonville FL, and then double track the east-west of Brightline to Orlando Intl Airport (or better to near Disney World). Let Brightline have the fast train to Miami and Tampa and let Amtrak slow train handle the Tampa run.
If we ever did truly build these extended corridors they’d definitely be worth it in the long run
A reminder that Amtrak has TWO profitable links. 1) NE Corridor, and 2) Auto Train, from Lorton, VA (ie. Washington DC) and Sanford, FL (i.e. Orlando). Success doesn't require high speed, it only requires being more useful and affordable than the alternatives. A second reminder: Florida is the third most populous state -- it passed NYS as of the last census, and FL is still growing and NYS is still shrinking. Perhaps FL should get more Amtrak money...
Brightline to Tampa and Jacksonville will pretty much eliminate Amtrak in Florida unless Amtrak chooses to extend their route from Mississippi to Jacksonville.
florida might be bigger, but its all suburb which isnt favorable for railways. the northeast has numbers and density, which is partly why the NEC is so effective
Could you look into the Richmond to Norfolk chances for High/higher speed rail? its an odd right of way that has some really obvious solutions! maybe as a mini episode like thing!
Richmond to Newport News and Richmond to Norfolk are both part of the corridor. I'll probably put them in the same video since they're close to each other.
For Raleigh-Charlotte HSR, if you follow the existing alignment and not take a more direct route via US 64/NC 49, with a stop at the NC Zoo in Asheboro, I'll be sad.
Raleigh's metro is really 3 million, since the Triangle is one big sprawling city. Think Dallas-Ft. Worth type s***.
It's not 3M yet, but it is surrounded by other metros like Burlington, Fayetteville, Rocky Mount/Wilson that augment its 2.4M CSA.
@johnlabus7359 Fair enough. You include those areas and it's actually a lot closer to 3m (those combined net about 1m), but you're right that the CSA is nearing/surpassed 2.4m as of 2024, and I'd say the CSA is a better way of analyzing the active metro population, ie people residing, working, and living all across the Triangle. While RM, Fayetteville, and Burlington/Mebane all feed off the Triangle, they're distinct enough and distant enough that I'd say it's right to distinguish them from the metro. The purpose of my comment was to really differentiate/emphasize that the metro population of Raleigh was a lot more significant than described, and our entire CSA really is one big sprawling megalopolis.
If there's a Northeast corridor, could there not be a Southeast corridor of equal or better quality or speed? I think so!
What if they built it and still called the whole thing the Northeast Corridor?
@@LucidStew The eastern seaboard corridor, wait doesn't that sound a bit familiar?
The northeast has a much higher population density and older growth. Southern cities are hours apart by car. The good news is it should be easier to create true HSR routes with fewer demolitions along the way.
Dude I love your content. Content suggestions: what if you did stews news for world wide developments. Just like your Australia video getting a lot of views. You could also do one for Canada
I will do international content every now and then, but the main focus of the channel is the United States. Once I'm done with the SEHSR corridor, Toronto to Quebec City connecting to 3 U.S. HSR corridors is next. Hopefully by then there will be more information about the HSR plans that have been speculated about.
If you haven’t done so already, does this mean that after Raleigh to Charlotte, that you’ll do a Charlotte to Atlanta vid? It would be cool to see combined travel times and demand for a full-fledged “Southeast Corridor” line (or that’s what I would dub a Richmond-Atlanta line, at least).
Richmond area is the 3rd largest in Virginia. Northern Virginia is the largest.
As a frequent driver of this route, occasional Amtrak rider on current service, and certain future rider, the most fantasy part of this idea is highway 1 towards Raleigh. NIMBY’s will kill it, and NCDOT is still salivating at their car dystopian plan to destroy Capital Blvd inside I-540 to make it interstate lite.
I think the I-85 median is clearly the way to go from Virginia to the NC state line. Better alignment, plenty of space - what's not to like?
It'll be interesting to see how successful Brightline West is using the freeway median. If it's very, then that could encourage other US high speed rail projects to use freeway medians too.
So how much faster could we make it without ballooning the budget, like could we do 400kph trains for only 5 billion more? Would it cost times to be faster than flight even without the airport time penalty?
An extra $8-10 billion on the ends would probably buy you 20-25 minutes.
How about a video about improved RTR mid speed version 125mph max non electrified
I went by the EIS and didn't bother measuring curves on the plan, but I'm pretty sure parts of the right of way are fine for 125mph on geometry. Since its already planned to be completely grade separated, they'd likely need to adjust tracks a little and throw up a couple hundred miles of fence to seal it.
The Raleigh area build is NOT going to happen, no matter what, in that form... but still a nice thought. Since Richmond to Raleigh is very good I-85 for 75% of that distance, a better solution is building an expressway to bypass and parallel US 1 south into Raleigh from I-85 in the north.
If you find U.S. 1 improbable, I would argue for the greenfield south of Henderson and then hooking back into the planned R2R route north of Youngsville. That would be about the same time and cost-wise.
Bro, I want to know why they rejected the 185 to 200mph option, I know money can be an issue but like $12.1 billion that's definitely worth it!! Like does nobody in FRA or whatever even think about the future?
They believed that the dedicated right of way required would run into too much opposition, be too expensive given the available ridership, and take too long to construct. The Tier II EIS does mention the possibility of conversion to electric at some vague point in the future.
@@LucidStew as long as the opportunity is there. Even if electrification only marginally improves travel times, the ability for thru-running to/from the NEC is huge. Honestly should be electrified rail all the way from DC to Atlanta, even if it's a mix of high and higher speed rail. Hopefully over time the speeds will be increased from 110 to 125 mph.
@ that’s a bit absurd, I feel like realistically, nobody should be opposing it especially when everyone wants to be environmentally friendly. True high-speed trains are literally essential for fighting climate change. Also, if you consistently spend money on high-speed rail, then it won’t cost as much
@@RailMan102_Productions You're being a bit optimistic about the motives of the opposition, eh? The people that oppose it do not care about climate change, they would burn the entire earth to ash if it prevented them from losing a single parking space. Obviously it would be better for everyone and for the future to do it right the first time (and I'm sure the FRA would like nothing better than to do so), but that's hard when people who would turn Paris into a 20 lane highway if given the opportunity are opposing you and they are half the people in the country. It's bleak out there, we have to take the wins where we get them 🥴 especially now...
Why don't you also take intercity bus passengers into account when you do your ridership estimates?
I'm not even sure if that data is available anywhere. I certainly haven't found it. From some estimates I've seen, nationwide combined ridership is similar to Amtrak's. The 1,400 in the video for Amtrak is likely overstated by a bit, so it may even out. It's probably still in the ballpark of 6,500 trips/day on the high end.
Raleigh is building a Union Station bus terminal next to the train station to connect more folks to the train services.
Personally, I think that average speeds (including stops + acceleration/deceleration time penalties) of under 150mph is unacceptable for a "true" high-speed line (at least for express services, that is). I've been working on creating a US/Canadian national HSR alignment map for a couple years now, which has definitely made me aware of how much those high standards would cost, both financially and politically. But for once-in-a-generation infrastructure like this, we really can't afford to 'value-engineer' our way into something sub-par that millions of people in future generations will have to pay the indirect costs for.
It's also why this really needs to be an initiative done via a national master-plan, with part of that master-plan being several major legal reforms that would actually enable us to bring costs down enough to make such high standards financially viable. The worst thing we could do wold be to approach North American HSR in a project-to-project fashion leading to differing standards and the resulting massive inefficiencies that would come from that.
wake forest has a big university called wake forest.
Wake forest university is actually in Winston-Salem for some reason
@@karlengel583 The university actually moved from Wake Forest to Winston Salem in the 1950s! I think, just to be part of a larger city.
The Wake Forest campus is a seminary school now.
@@RichardinNC1 I think it was actually prompted by financials and funding/commitment from the Reynolds' family in addition to room to expand the college.
You do all of that just not to electrify the corridor? I dont even know why that is even an option.
The freight rail companies are generally opposed to passenger rail infrastructure and operations impacting their business, and you're dealing with them to some extent unless bypassing their rights of way completely. In general catenary and high speed is something they're going to oppose too close to their tracks.
@@LucidStew CAHSR is having that issue with UP between Gilroy and San Jose, and is working on an agreement with them. It'll make electrifying LA to Fullerton interesting, though maybe BNSF is more open to the idea than UP is.
@@ChrisJones-gx7fc CAHSR traffic between L.A. and Anaheim is going to be pretty minimal and slow compared to the rest of the system.
Is this being done by Amtrak or a private company?
R2R? It's a joint project by Virginia and North Carolina with involvement of CSX, NS, the SEHSR Commission and the federal government.
@ oh it’s called R2R?
@@RailMan102_Productions the project is called R2R for short.
@@LucidStew Thanks
This will only get built if we sell it as reducing traffic on I-95
Hello old pal.
I hate a lot of these plans seem to leave Greenville SC behind.
Greenville SC would be covered in a Charlotte to Atlanta HSR.
Hard to see how you're going to wedge Greenville, SC between Richmond and Raleigh. :D It's a bit of a detour...
why do you hsr viedos never talk about where you will put the hsr maintence yards.
because its not terribly interesting and the videos are long enough as it is.
it will also speed up all the overnight florida trains.
We need more faster rail lines. It makes no sense to spend more for true high speed rail. We just need to improve what we have and make it’s rideable. Beggars can’t be choosers! What we have now just isn’t acceptable and funding is a constant battle
thr reason they are reamianinf on the csx main line is so the neport nes and nirfolf trains alkso gian.
for that connection I have something slightly destructive, but faster planned.
Well now that national high speed rail is over because of Trump, I can finally get back to watching GTA 5 lore videos!
Please notify me when your April Fool’s video about Nebraska - High Speed Rail occurs (hopefully April 1st)
Regards,
- Gumby
Yeah, I was gonna say, 4/1 is probably a safe bet. That's going to be the news, though, so maybe 1/4.
@ Reverse April fools means you have to tell the truth 100% in the video. So no booboos allowed!
@@gumbyshrimp2606 then I'm screwed
The reality is that no train in the southeastern portion of USA reaches 110 mph now. The planned speed of 125 mph or so is not yet allowed on the portion of Brightline between Cocoa and Orlando. (In South FL the max speed is 79 mph.) It would be great to have R2R achieve the 110-mph maximum. ----
The scary thing is that Brightline East is losing tons of money. I hope that situation improves. California HSR rail is a huge miscalculation. That situation is so bad that I'm not wasting my emotions hoping that it improves. The whole California system will never be built. There will not be money to blast through those mountains. ---- Illinois has 110 mph service. Michigan has 110 mph service. Why? Those states participate in the State-Amtrak partnership. 18 states. Those states are willing to financially support passenger rail. Georgia and Ohio do not partner with Amtrak/FRA. That is why the last time I was in Atlanta I was on a 16 lane Interstate highway (death trap).
With Trump, the 2035 Amtrak vision will be scaled back. Passenger rail improvements in North Carolina and Virginia may move forward because the VA GOP governor knows that he can't build any more highways and the GOP Senators in NC voted for the infrastructure bill.
NCDOT Rail is doing a great job. I am so glad the NC is one of the State-Amtrak program partners. R2R will be a big step forward. I would like to see NC catch up with Michigan.
The only way California HSR isn't built all the way will be because of a lack of funding. Mountain crossings are nothing new for HSR, nor is crossing fault zones. Just look at Japan and Taiwan as examples. Plus it'll be more expensive, and less beneficial, in the long run to continue expanding freeways and airports to meet the same level of additional capacity needed that a 2-track HSR system will provide. Caltrans spent $18 billion on freeways in 2023 compared to less than $1 billion on HSR.
The US is spending over $140 billion per year on road infrastructure compared to less than $20 billion on transit. In California, Caltrans spent $18 billion on freeways in 2023 compared to less than $1 billion on HSR that same year (and $12 billion total so far). However much of that road/freeway money is for widening projects, which are proven to only make traffic worse long term, should be redirected to transit. The US can more than afford to build high speed rail, and so too can California, if we're willing to build it. That's what it ultimately comes down to. If we're committed to making it happen, the funding will be found to make it happen.
@@ChrisJones-gx7fc I wish the world was like you imagine it to be. I sincerely do. When Trump came into office the first time, he snatched back $1 billion that Obama/Biden had given to California HSR. When Biden took office, he restored the $ and added to it. You write, "If we're committed to making it happen, the funding will be found to make it happen." The reality is that "we" are not pulling in the same direction.
All trains should have a speed of at least 185 to 200 MPH.
Which Elon acolyte is going to be the next Secretary of Transportation?😢
What if its Elon?
@@LucidStew The coveted double role as head of DOGE and transportation secretary
He's already the biggest federal welfare queen, what's another salary?
@@ottoros I'd be able to find a pretty cool stinger for Secretary of Transportation Musk.
@@LucidStewsmelly Musk!
Pete Buttigieg button -> 1:00
Dear Lucid, I have had a word with Trump, and he will appoint you national director of High Speed Rail for the USA.
Do 180 mph electrified or go home
“Meandering eight lane boulevard” oh you mean crapital blvd?????!!!
Yeah, but I think you might have misspelled it.
Still owned by CSX? This will fail.
Anything below 140mph is not "High Speed Rail"... 165mph should be the target, if not 200!
I try not to gatekeep too much, but let's face it, we're inexperienced with the idea in the states. Brightline in Florida is called HSR all the time. Maybe operating CAHSR or Brightline West will open a few eyes.
@@LucidStew I do get that, but why should that be a barrier to creating a true high-speed service? There are several countries that have gone from only having 60-70mph train lines straight to 180-200mph lines. In some ways the American public are more accustomed to higher speeds with the few spots on the NEC that have them.
Obviously things are politically bleak for HSR in the US at the moment, but when discussing what HSR could look like, especially in an aspirational way, why not hold the US to the same standards as the rest of the world? If you mean institutional experience, that is certainly a problem. But that can be fixed by importing that experience from any of the several nations that already have it in abundance. Of course we don't want to depend on that completely, but domestic knowledge can be built up over time by working with the imported expertise.
@@LucidStew I'd say that was Brightline pushing that term to make their Florida route sound more impressive, and the news media picking it up and running with it. Now so many critics of CAHSR cite Florida has having done high speed rail first, which is beyond frustrating. Brightline themselves need to just come clean and emphasize that their Florida route is higher speed, not high speed.
Brightline West on the other hand will be high speed, but it's equally frustrating that they keep calling it America's first true high speed rail system when it just isn't. California HSR already beat them to that title with being the first to begin construction, and if it had been properly funded from the start, and hadn't been held up fighting frivolous litigation, also the first to begin service. BLW will in all likelihood be the first to claim the latter title, but they shouldn't be promoting themselves as if California HSR simply doesn't exist.
@@LucidStew given how quickly China was able to build out a proper HSR network, going from having nothing at all… I’d say the US certainly has the technical capability to go for proper HSR if it is sought after. I think the issue is more corporations and governments still being stuck in this mindset that public transport is mainly just for the poor, so why throw too much money at it? That’s what’s hampering this, not so much the lack of experience with building/operating HSR.
Wouldn’t be so hard to bring in some technical know-how from Europe and Asia either, since most of America’s trains are already manufactured overseas
Things are bleak.
To be honest, things were already bleak, and have been for 50 years.
Too expensive for too few riders.
Coulda built about 10 of these with all the $$$ sent to Ukraine, but what would I know about anything important
Two observations:
1) You select a 186 mph train... and then proceed to never discuss any speed over 135 mph?
2) The amount of say you Americans give to your freight railroads is absurd. Like when you highlighted two freight yards as obstacles to the Raleigh approach. Why not *prioritize* high speed passenger rail like in Europe and Asia... and MOVE those yards (whether NS and CSX likes it or not).
Put simply: there will NEVER be HSR in USA as long as you keep giving UP, BNSF, NS & CSX a say. In other parts of the world, these companies would simply be ordered to move their operations the F out of the way, if they are allowed to keep ownership of track at all.
A major millstone around US adoption of HSR is your insistence to not reuse land. When America was created, no such constraints existed. You simple drew your rail lines wherever it suited the purpose. You should remember this, America. It was key to your success then and it is mandatory for success now. Stop treating existing rail lines and highways as sacred, and start building STRAIGHT HSR rail lines, and rebuild the cars and freights AROUND the truly fast passenger rail instead...
In other words, the government needs to use eminent domain to get old fossilized infrastructure out of the way. And since your videos are unconstrained, why don't you?
Also 177kmh 110mph is wirklich lächerlich. Das fahren die langsamsten ReginalExpress in Deutschland und anderswo in Europa. Das ist Unterste Kategorie und gehört seit den 1990er nicht mehr gebaut.
Thanks!