Guy Gavriel Kay's TIGANA || Book Discussion
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- Опубліковано 20 сер 2024
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Thank you for this conversation. It was very insightful. I have been reading Kay for 30+ years and recommending him as long. There is very little Kay on book tube and I frankly don't understand it.
I have read the books in publishing order and Tigana is my favorite of his books; I view it as a true masterpiece of fantasy.
I do also understand any of his books being someone's favorite, and there are at least 5 or 6 that could fall into the masterpiece camp.
In this conversation multiple themes were brought up but one of the themes that was not mentioned that I think helps to explain some of the "troublesome" parts of the book is: War destroys personal humanity.
War breaks us as people, and can cause us to act in base ways. If you want to show the horrors of war you can show death, of course, but incest, sexual coercion, mutilation, and even falling in love with the man that killed your people and destroyed your homeland can show how war causes us to loose what makes us human.
(Also I am 100% team corn swords.)
Hooray for team corn swords! 😂 Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts about Tigana and experience with Guy Gavriel Kay’s books. I’m glad to hear Tigana was your favorite. While I didn’t make a thematic connection between war and sexual deviance, I did sense an attempt to make some of those scenes relate to oppression, freedom, and need for solace. I eventually bought into Dianora’s attraction to Brandin, but I still found the other scenes rather abrupt and awkward. Regardless of how I experienced the book, I greatly appreciate your thoughts!
the library ladder sounds like public radio
Hahaha! He has a great voice!
Great discussion! I just finished the book this morning and I want to say there are actually one or two quick pov sections from Brandin’s perspective before he dies in the last chapter (if I’m not mistaken). This conversation was amazing and scratched such an itch for me after finishing this book! Love how GGK appeals to both visual and non visual readers with his prose. Excited to continue on to “Lions”
Hooray! I love his books as a visual reader, but he’s also so good at capturing other senses and emotions in his prose. I hope you love Lions!
AH! excellent discussion video, I saw this announced on your channel, and I wanted to catch it live, but I couldn't because of finals! But it was a great discussion!
It's so cool that you got the library ladder in the video! His video on the greatest living fantasy author is I think the main thing that made me want to start reading GGK! Him and Jake are the reasons I got into GGK and he is basically my favorite author now so I am very grateful to them for that!
as for why some of the sexual stuff seemed excessive and frivolous, I get that many people find it weird, but I thought it was a very real portrayal of not just the trauma of a people being oppressed, but trauma in general. I actually read a reddit comment that really thoroughly explained it, basically it's described by Devin to (Eliana? kind of forgot her name) where she called it the "insurrection in the dark", meaning that when people are oppressed or have trauma, they lash out in sexually deviant ways to rebel in some form, when they can't rebel in actuality, because their spirit cries out for some kind of rebellion. this includes the characters Baerd, Dianorra, Devin, Catrian, and (Eliana?).
Also I just finished book one of the Sarantine Mosaic yesterday, and am going to start book two tomorrow! Hopefully I will be able to catch the next one of these, and I am really loving all of your GGK spoiler discussions! (also I'm sure you will anyway, but please remember to invite the same guests next time lol, I really think you all are great at sharing different types of insights!) I feel like Richard gives great literary insights, and you and Josh's music background, and your appreciation of his prose makes you able to discuss Kay's work in a way I imagine the author really intended. And Jake feels like he's just 100% how I would be in the discussion, where he appreciates all of that too, but he's also just a die hard GGK fanboy like I would be! ha
How interesting about that trauma rationale! While I appreciate that angle, those scenes did feel abrupt to me. Thank you so much for taking the time to watch these spoiler-filled discussions and for commenting. Happy reading!
Fantastic conversation. Really enjoyed it.
Thank you!
I'm a little late to discussion, but I'm not sure I like Dianora's perspective. I don't get how she could be in love with Brandin, and stay in love with him after she finds out what he did to the prince. He did some pretty horrific stuff, including committing genocide on her people. I kept hoping that she would come to a realization about Brandin and be the one to kill him (even if she still had glimmers of love for him). I did wonder, too, whether Brandin was manipulating Dianora's feelings for him through sorcerous means.
I was convinced Brandin had something up his sleeve. I eventually bought into her truly loving him, but I can understand if that leap never happens for some readers.
Hello Johanna. I’m so glad that GGK is getting consistent Booktube love.
I’m a blogger (and author) and have shared my love for GGK on my blog and social media sites in the past few years.
I have read 7 GGK novels: Children of Earth & Sky, A Brightness Long Ago, All The Seas of the World, Sailing to Sarantium & Lord of Emperors, Ysabel, and The Lions of Al-Rassan. I just finished The Lions of Al-Rassan last week. An excellent novel. Tigana will be my next GGK novel to read.
I didn’t finish watching this video because I don’t want to know what happens in Tigana until I read it. However, I watched the first forty minutes and the discussion about GGK’s work put a big smile on my face.
I truly believe he is one of the best writers working today irregardless of genre. He’s a favorite of writers and I can see why.
I will share my thoughts on Tigana after I read it. Also, if you ever have a discussion on Children of Earth & Sky…I would like to be a part of it. That is still my favorite GGK novel I’ve read.
So excited to hear you're another GGK fan! While Tigana is my least favorite of the three GGK books I've read, Kay is cemented as one of my favorite authors. I'm excited to read more of his books. Thanks for watching and happy reading!
I agree with the ladder about his point contrasting Under Heaven and the DD. When I read Grace of Kings, I had the same thought: I would much rather be reading Under Heaven right now. The DD doesn't hold a candle to Under Heaven.
Oh wow! I'm very excited to read Under Heaven in addition to all other books by GGK.
I think the prologue is amongst the best things GGK has put on paper. Overall it’s probably not amongst my favourites of his, but that’s a very high standard and it’s a great book either way. I think the antagonist might be his best, though in part because he often avoids that kind of clear delineation, and in this case that pays off in the character’s complexity.
On themes, yes, his work is rich with them. I think the one that he hits in every work is sacrifice, in a variety of ways, for a variety of motivations, and imo is what is often behind the inevitable tears that are just part of what you are going to get with Kay.
That prologue is now one of my favorite prologues in fantasy. That's a great point about sacrifice. Off the top of my head, I think of Dianora, Catriana, and Sandre. There are probably several other instances of that theme, and so many emotions that accompany it!
Since I wasn't able to watch the end live, here are just a couple of my thoughts on the last hour or so:
I agree with Jake's point about setting as opposed to worldbuilding (as well as the analogy with Vancouver). I feel like the two things are very closely related (and I would maybe say setting is kind of a part of worldbuilding) but not quite the same, where setting to me has a dependence on the quality of the prose while worldbuilding generally does not. Although Kay is decent at other parts of worldbuilding, from what I've read his main strengths in the area seem to be the ability to create an atmosphere/tone and a strong mental image in the reader, which I would classify under setting.
I am younger than Jake and I like GGK (at least, I think I do. I loved the first half of this book and really like Song for Arbonne)
Bridger is annoyingly smart
I'm so happy to hear from a younger GGK fan than Jake! 😄 I agree about Kay's mastery of atmosphere, tone, and imagery. I think some of this depends on how we define world-building. I think of a variety of factors: race/ethnicity, worldview/religion, cultural traditions, social norm distinctions, languages, history, lore, magic (and how it relates to everything else), and setting. I still think there was a fair amount of world-building with the history and lore (even thinking about all the ring-dive stories), but I could also notice areas where it was more minimal. It makes sense that some things would have to be minimized for a standalone. Thanks!
Thanks(!?)
I'd like to think it's just the additional 35 or so years I've had to read, to explore, and to make mistakes and learn from them. 😅
Catriana’s father was not a coward, he has chosen to live and be with his family. Would it be better if he wasn’t a “coward” and just died with the rest of them? I live in Ukraine, and I understand him very well.
Catriana saw him as a coward, but I agree that his choice was understandable.
I have read 5 books by GGK so far.
Tigana is my least favorite.
Tigana< Under heaven
We're in good company! I felt the same way based on the three I've read. Looking forward to reading The Sarantine Mosaic!
Tigana is an oddity really. Its widely respected and well-loved (not undeserved), but amongst the GGK fan base its not often the favourite as much as the wider Fantasy community thinks.
Strange, isn’t it? The book is more fantasy than many other books he wrote, so maybe that’s why.
So who dies? Who is blessed and who has a decision to make ?
That is THE question! :)
Devin Dies, Baerd is Blessed, Sandre has the decision