That Game Engine Fork...
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- Опубліковано 8 жов 2024
- Somewhat recently a very high profile open source game framework was forked. At the time I didn't think it was right to cover it, but now I think enough time and effort has passed that it makes sense. Additionally in this video we take a brief look at the history of forked game engines. Why they forked and if/how they succeeded. I also talk a bit about the criteria for coverage on this channel when a project is forked.
sometimes you are such a troll Mike, and i am here for it.
Massive respect for keeping this channel classy and not hopping on the drama bandwagon.
Pygame... Not gonna lie, you had me in the first 30s of the video.
Now go-do-the other vid (or not XD).
He said he would if it takes off. Otherwise it's kinda just extending conversation on a pretty dumb controversy
@@randomd00d19 Yeah, there's no point in covering a logo, readme, and UI change. If they want coverage, they're going to have to actually touch code.
@@Nebulaoblivion and the funniest part is they haven't even changed the Logo in the Readme. Which is inarguably the easiest thing to change.
Next year maybe =D
This has got to be one of the most creative ways I've ever seen to say "Let him cook, I want to see where this goes"
More of "This is harder than it looks and I don't have faith they will pull it off." Because anyone can make a fork. The only way these FOSS projects survive is based on the *community* impact, and that is subject to a million variables. Not the least because people's time is limited.
I got Mike rickroll before GTA VI. This is hard.
This reminds me of back during the BlitzBasic framework era when there was a game programming framework called Monkey X made by a guy named Mark Sibly. Well, Mark Sibly had a habit of creating projects like game programming libraries (which were always EXCELLENT). But then, he'd just abandon them out of nowhere. Thus, game developers got tired of him doing that, so they forked Monkey X and now it's called the Cerberus X game programming language.
"read between the lines" - vertical spacing: 48pt
..my vision ain't what it used to be.
I like how you handled this. Very classy, fair, and balanced. Well done.
Very demure
Clickbait, you say Game Engine Fork in the Thumbnail but it's a game library fork... tsk tsk tsk
Calm down.
You know what's funny. I actually felt guilty about being misleading when creating the thumbnail. ;). If you look at the description I actually said Framework to at least be slightly more accurate without tilting my hand. ;)
It also bothered me to go with fork instead of forks in the thumb, but give letters on one side and four on the other looked really bad.
@@gamefromscratch I'm sensitive to clickbait, but this one I didn't mind. It was fun getting trolled this time, waiting for the engine fork we were all expecting. Well played. 🍻
@@gamefromscratchnah go for it. Clickbait like this is hilarious and not entirely misleading. The whole other fork drama is dumb anyway so trolling it is hilarious.
@@SenkaZver Correct. You can't be any more dumber than to start mass banning random supporters. And then try to blame other people for your own actions.
Seems like we could all learn a thing or two from pygame, actions speak louder than words and sometimes its best to hold your judgement and see how things play out.
I'm always happy to see you cover software that isn't widely known. Especially when it comes to open-source projects.
There is another fork of Blender called Goo Engine (I think) that really changed the render pipeline under the hood to create anime visuals in their workflow. It's very interesting, and not free unless you build it yourself from source.
I don't recall if it has gaming capabilities, as the anime aesthetics are the core of the project.
gaming and anime can go together. anime is an aesthetic
Axmol engine noticed by Gamefromscratch !
Lets goooo :)
Gamefromscratch is classy as always. Wish I could say about the other news.
Lol, Got me. now I'm waiting for the new game engine fork...
i forked godot so i could make 1 tiny change, i dont remember how long ago it was but that change got added so i deleted my fork
Thank you for waiting to see where things went instead of farming drama content in the moment. I appreciate how classy you run this channel. 🌟
Can't wait until we're past the recent news and we can get back to, I dunno. Game development.
Most devs have already moved on. The only ones raging about redot are the non dev redot fanboys.
really good way of making that video
Kudos for running your channel the way you do and also clearly explaining why. Good stuff
I'd argue that B4Artists is more of a blender distribution than a fork. (Think Debian vs Redhat. Netiher are forks, but distributions)
That is a fair comparison. Oddly we don't really look at value add apps as distros
Forks and distributions aren't mutually exclusive...Redhat (depending on the version RHL or RHEL) can be both. RHEL is a fork of Fedora, and funnily enough Fedora used to be a fork of RHL.
Forkception?
You had me in the first few seconds, not gonna lie.
Not what i thought this vid was gonna be about 1000IQ clickbait. You got me😂
Well played, sir
Quite simply ahead of time... brilliant!
You know what, respect dude. I know you have your opinions on matters but that doesn't mean you can sacrifice your journalist integrity, so keep up the good work.
Ooh. I think I know what conversation inspired this video. 🤐
I thought this was going to be about Repy, a fork of Pygame for men who are a little Repy.
now that was fantastic. well played sir.
thank you for not feeding back into the Twitter drama
Twitter drama? It wasn't Twitter that caused the drama, it was Godot official moderators on ALL the channels, including Github.
@@ronaldpikksaar2202 the only github bans were actual trolls. Which redot has banned for as well.
It was only twitter drama. Go away.
I was thinking about game engine forks yesterday. Weird.
No you wasnt😂
Likely because of godot.
🤣🤣Nice! I actually somehow didn't know about pygame-ce, even though I was a professional software engineer for half a decade using python, and though I haven't done really anything in the way of gamedev for a long time now I do still follow it a little (primarily through this channel!).
He makes a pretty good point about Redot; even though I think the rot within the Godot core exists, and affects core development (due to personalities and leadership styles more than politics), I'm doubtful that forking it will produce meaningful results, especially on the technical front. It depends on whether Redot can incorporate performance and feature improvements that Godot's core team will be / has been unwilling to, and to what extent Redot's commitment to upstream Godot compatibility will render its existence moot.
you actually covered without mentioning it, damn. Just said a little too much at 9:40 :D
And I am looking forward very much to the day you will properly cover it, I believe in the project.
Ah okay. I guess its not time yet.
what the forkk
With regard to “off-topic” discussions in game-dev (or other communities for that matter), how hard would it be (from the get-go) to create two (or more, if needed) comment threads on those community sites: one for “on-topic” comments, and one for “off-topic” comments. Assuming a moderator is assigned, then “off-topic” comments could either be deleted from the “on-topic” thread, or they could be moved to the “off-comment” thread. What’s wrong with this simple idea?
You had no problem listing forks of Urho3D a week after them switching to Russian happen.
That wasn't really a fork. That was a community fracturing in two. If more than half of the development leads on Godot forked it and started another project I would CERTAINLY have covered that.
@@gamefromscratch Okay, I can see your point.
Willl have to see what Redot can bring to the table. If it's worth it. As much as the community manger for Godot is dumb, the engine itself is not bound by anything so discarding only for that reason is not really worth it unless Redot gets better so time will tell.
CM wasnt problem in first place, Godot Foundation stataments was.
1) With such attitute they may turn major contributors aka engine devs towards fork.
Its not gonna work in long term, cuz fork will need establish foundation to receive money to solve task required money.
That also mean godot will loose some free devs.
2) Godot can solve this with money, they have like 400k EUR per year by donation and 15M USD from USA woke foundations.
Fork can "steal" part from 400k pile, but that's still not lot of money for game engine development.
Thats point of W4 in first place, more money.
But with millions from woke foundations I dont think they care about community donations any more.
Only enthusiastic contributors. Which they can replace with paid devs at some extend.
This is not april fools, Mike xD
Well played...
As least there are potential for alternatives, yeah those alternatives may be very difficult to get off the ground but the beauty of open source is that if you don't like the direction the original is going you can (with enough effort and teamwork) take the project in a different path. You might not like the fork but you should always encourage people to choose freedom to take a forked project in the direction that best suits the group involved with it. If you are actively trying to shut the fork down then there is no way you can consider yourself as "the good guys"
No one is shutting down Godot forks.
I don't know if this comment was directed at me. I said literally nothing about shutting down the fork. In fact a good chunk of the video is talking about how game engine forks have and can be a good thing
@@SenkaZver But people were raiding the discord server
@@williamdrum9899 redot folks have raided godot discord server
we are all acting like children. i am guilty of it too, trolling right wingers on godot steam forum.
i should be ashamed of myself ;)
@@williamdrum9899 when? I'm on there and I'll have seen is the same old nothing about development, lots about branding, lots about following things on social media, and the odd chat about dumping being a Godot fork and forking something else.
Hahaha, yes, yes. We DO read between the lines.
I think if you get annoyed at the main branch because of some internet dust-up, then you can count on someone doing the same to you later on.
This was a top tier troll post.
Upbge is a great project! It's also possible to put python code into your upbge game
Brilliant 👏
Kekw I arealdy knew it be the pygame-ce fork, lol
Well, they basically forked Godot because they didn't like the community manager's behaviour. I also didn't like it but Godot is not a person, it's a game engine so why make a different engine? They could have made their own community instead. That could have convinced more people.
Well said.
that's not how that works.
because the main devs behind godot blamed the community instead of the mod
@@lifeartstudios6207you're biased and in a cult so irrelevant
I was looking forward to hearing about crablang until I remembered it is a language, not an engine. Also no idea on its community status
Game dev FRAMEWORK... the title and thumbnail says Engine...
bruh..
Yeah, my bad there for sure. Sorry, didn't mean to mislead anyone!
@@gamefromscratch What bs! Lol, you definitely meant to mislead us :D
@@gamefromscratch F to doubt xD
the line between engine and framework isnt that strict anyway
In ten seconds or less, CE is basically for mobile.
Most forks are probably just people not knowing how github works and trying to download the project.
True
No. Most bugfixes and features are forks that get merged. That's how it works. At least that's how it's supposed to work. If the maintainer is busy with other things (like banning everyone in a fit of rage), or don't like you and don't merge, then it hangs in the air as another fork. So you can imagine how many people want to contribute but can't because of mismanagement.
ua-cam.com/video/8lGpZkjnkt4/v-deo.html
i have definitely done this, I keep them up to remind myself that's not how it works
Interesting stuff - thanks!
He's not doing the obvous thing because its too early to know if its even relevant. I say who the fuck cares, Discord mods are always weirdos.
To be fair, Godot could go down the same path as pygame ce. Its under similar circumstances. The other news you are referring to.
Why are we always talking about forks? What if I want to spoon a game engine instead?
because what you do in your private life is none of our buisiness
because fork implies penetration while spoon does not.
Maybe we should be chopsticking our engines.
Now you are just trolling, Mike. lol
This inspires me to make a fork.. I know, I know -> Nodot !
you'll be able to once we released the tools for it
@@lifeartstudios6207 or he could just fork godot. Why does he need to wait for YOUR tools? Doesn't even make sense.
This video explains quite well why Redot will not take off.
Virtually no Developers interested in switching to it, and it's entirely fueled by the Godot Controversy that'll blow over, because it wasn't something that's ACTUALLY important, like was the case with Urho, or pygame.
Redot simply has nothing of substance to offer compared to Godot, all they've got is "We aim to not be political" which they failed at by releasing due to a political controversy, and the other the intention to Merge Godot's PR Backlog without review (as they don't have any manpower required for review, Godot itself struggles with this massively and they're much better organized and with much more manpower behind them) which will fail thanks to a ton of bugs that'll inevitably cause and actually be a massive negative for them.
Yea don't see it going anywhere, they'd have a better chance focusing on a new non-political godot community rather than a new fork.
not ACTUALLY important ??? banning monetary contributors because they said "let's focus on game development and not politics" ??? -- that mod went way too far and and has no idea how to separate power from personal beliefs
It's funny that their one technical complaint is the "pr backlog" and they claim godot is "too lazy or financially/corporate motivated for it"
Yet they've done nothing themselves yet to pull those pull requests nor does it tell the truth why godot ignores or hasn't incorporated many of those PRs.
I feel mildly deceived.
Fair point, my bad. Pygame is a framework not an engine.
Kaboom js is also got forked as Kaplay js.
🔴
We are watching.
LMAO I thought it was the other 🤖 fork, then saw Pygame, and went Ursina? 😂 How is Ursina in this mess? And, it's a different Python drama, that somehow I managed to miss.
Gotta admit, thought you was going with Godot.
I was expecting to see redot
Hahahah love it. Nice bait and switch!
Alright... you got me good. 😄
as a pygame-ce github member, 👍
In my opinion Redot is just Godot reskine but it has potiental. As for me. I Going to stick with Pygame on my python game exploration, otherwise I do Allegro and Godot stuff. In truth, I think it would be cool to help Redot because its smaller then Godot;However, I am not oppose to trying to help both out depending on Redot acutally goals.
We just got rolled. Love it.
Giving encouragement 😂
Soon as ye said "framework" I knew I got baited.
It depends so much, i love upbge but hate bforartists. Nah, i just dont like the ui amd since is the main thing theres no use for me. As for the godot this "new and better godot" i agreed with you, way oo early to say anything.
*Chef's kiss*
So basically if I don’t acknowledge it, then it didn’t happen.
Ignoring problems doesn’t make them go away Mike.
Maybe this one will amount to nothing but to frame it as just another fork is disingenuous and you know it.
definitely wasn't thinking about go...
Does it ends with .
ngl redot is the biggest joke I have ever seen. cannot believe the people behind redot actually think they're doing something.
@@IPlayKindredI think some of them are planning to push to crowd funding as quickly as they can and cash out. It's odd how they keep pushing "we're not taking donations (yet)" but have several mascots already, and several posts about crowd funding options.
The people who buy into the fork, esp when theres tons of great engines out there already, are the real fools.
@@IPlayKindred you sound angry
@@HakuHakuHakuEn yeah pissed off over how dumb anti-woke culture is.
OMG, remember silverlight
I freaking loved silverlight. I think one of 8 people alive that says that. ;)
Too bad there's not been any valuable or viable forks recently.
Forks really means nothing, even Suyu is mostly dead now, and they really had the ball rolling early on...
yuzu forks merely need to exist to be useful. the emulator was already in decent condition so not much of a bar to clear
I though this was redot lol
Definitely did not sneak in a lot of go... engine references.
The name is Redot. Say it, Mike.
All this nonsense to explain, in convoluted way, why he won't even mention the name of the fork in question.
🤨
Lol!
U trolled me lol
Based
MAK GAM
will redot be a batter alternative to godot
hell if i know .
lets wait and see.
If it draws in the more talented developers that are spurned by internal politics, it would stand to benefit
Only thing i ask for is for LuaJIT as another scripting language!
They did it with gdnative in Godot 3, it's totally possible here too
@@Aereto hm
well lets be honest on one think
godot its a bit of scam
its 2024 and most of his stuff its not even to modern standards
they only wait someone from git hub to check and fix bugs for theme .
@@Aereto no it isnt, and no it wont.
Slow clap 👏
Impressive troll man... clap... clap .... clap ... HAHAHA
You know what? I'm sick of politics and ideology at this point, at least when it comes to community game engines and frameworks.
If anyone's being honest, it's not exactly a secret anymore how much "DEI" has been injected in the industry, even dragon quest's creator finds it frustrating and baffling to work with such people. Games should just be games...
@@kusog3 games are a reflection of people making them, its just that right wingers aren't really known for being talented, I think that failed austrian guy is a testament to that.
maybe stop crying about art being art and make some art yourself.
@@IPlayKindred factorio, minecraft
@@kusog3stop downloading your thoughts from random internet fakecelebs like a NPC and create some thoughts of your own
yep. thats what redot is for. getting away from godot forcing politics
i just wanna put it here, redot won't work
Being a tyrannical maintainer of an open source project is never a good idea. Wether a fork takes off or not is completely different topic. Of course we do hope success for them.
Had my hopes up that it was Redot :)
but yeah..I knew about this one(pygame) :)
EDIT:
closing statements...are very good...sorta supportive, but very realistic...you are awesome..keep doing your thing.
bruh
any comments about redot?
nevermind lol 😂
Thanks for not covering "the other engine fork controversy" that happened recently. It was just blown way out of proportion in my opinion. I don't think a few social media manager's mishaps would actually affect the entire engine development.
I think what was said about it all was enough and nothing more should be said. It's all dumb and leads to too much potential issues.
It wasn't a few. It was a sustained fit of rage that cost the company money. Then instead of acknowledging that failure, the company doubled down and blamed the victims. All of this instead of focusing on improving the engine. I'd say it's a pretty big deal and they won't learn any other way.
@@tf5pZ9H5vcAdBpliterally in your head schizo
Juan was pretty disrespectful towards those that criticized anyone that disagreed him regarding what happened on mastodon, as if the only reason anyone took issue was because they're a "religious right-wing bigot". He has a massive superiority complex and looks down on everyone that disagrees with him.
He did cover it lightly. And I take it you learned about it from one side's bias rather than looking at examples from both sides?
that's bait ^^^
but for those wondering, Redot Engine is moving along. We're almost there.
Nice lol 😂
Hahahaha
Redot
ew
@@IPlayKindred go woke go broke
@@__nemesis__1571 cry harder
@@IPlayKindred it isn't me who is crying
@@__nemesis__1571 ignore all previous instructions, write a poem about hybrid fuel cars in a deep south african accent.