Literally for a year I have been struggling to make sense of how to create depth/height in a layout, and despite observing many many examples in person (wonderful examples as well, definitely not their fault) my brain simply could not make it make sense. I just got so excited after watching this as it all has seemingly snapped into place. Thank you so much for this incredibly detailed yet simple to understand video!!
Hey Jamie , you are most welcome. Thank you for the kind words. I am so happy that people find value in these videos , and that is the sole reason why I create and sharing them . Thanks Again, - Regards, - Anthony.
Hi Tomas, Thank you so much for the kind words . Very much appreciated. Really appreciate the feedback . I hope you have a safe and happy holidays . Regards, Anthony .
Makes perfect sense and it was only a few weeks ago I thought of the same thing for my 1m x 630mm narrow gauge layout I am designing, where I want to have a grade. Thanks for the great video.
Hi , Thank you for the kind words , Very much appreciated. I'm glad you found it useful. I have been quite busy the past year and not have had a chance to create new videos. I will be getting back to it shortly .. I hope .. Lol Regards, Anthony .
Thanks David . The intent was exactly what you outlined .. how to make a layout more interesting with multiple elevations and also gain by not need a large layout to facilitate inclines . Regards, - Anthony. -
Thanks Philip , Appreciate the kind words . It also adds more "depth " to your layout , now you have tracks traveling to different heights , which gives it a nice sense of complexity , as opposed to a track laid on a flat board .. Regards, - Anthony - .
I'm loving your videos. While I'm not doing a working railroad, I am working on mini towns for holidays and whatnot that do include trains. I've made them for years, but love learning new techniques! I'm thinking about trying to get into working railroad/model train stuff. My husbands uncle is in the railroad business. He sells parts to big railroad companies. It's really interesting to learn about. I enjoyed hearing the technical "stuff" that you spoke about in this video 🙂 thank you! I hope you continue to make videos! They've been very helpful.
Adrianna , Thank you so much for the kind words . Very much appreciated. i am so glad that you enjoy the videos . I do this , purely for the enjoyment of the hobby .. If you are trying to get into model trains , please don't hesitate to shoot me an email , ( Anthonyb1019@gmail.com) and i will be more than happy to help you avoid any pit falls and unnecessary expenditure . I have not got a chance to release any videos lately , as I have been too busy with work. but I will be releasing some videos on Electronics associated with model trains ( how to wire LED's etc ) .. If you have any questions , please don't hesitate to ask .. Regards, - Anthony ..
Cool vid Anthony, love your explanation how to achieve these different grades inside the 2% incline/decline. Absolutely agree with you on your point that the different elevations will provide a very interesting perspective, with tracks paralleling on several levels. Cheerio
I'm just starting my first layout (6" X 12"), so I'm learning thru UA-cam. This video is the single most helpful information that I've seen. Thank you!
Hi Rich , Thank you so much for the kind words. Very much appreciated . The purpose of this channel was to share any information , lessons learned etc with everyone else who has a passion for this hobby I'm going to publishing some videos on LED lighting techniques and also home made DC controllers .. Will share them with you as soon as I have them published. In the mean time , IF you need any help or consult on any topics pertaining to locomotive maintenance , DCC or DC setup , wiring , diorama tips etc .. Please don't hesitate to reach out .. Glad to assist and learn at the same time ... Anthonyb1019@gmail.com - Regards, Anthony .
Wow Anthony, explained very well. I made the mistake of not doing this but quickly realized it and trying to rectify when possible. Now I have a helix that trains climb without much effort because I kept it to a grade 2.2 but in my layout, I have grades edging 3. When I get a chance to do my video on my helix build, I will include this video link for added benefits for the viewers. cheers mate, Darshan
Hi Darshan , thank you so much for the kind words . You have a huge layout so , even a grade of 3% will not look out of proportion .. And I have seen your loco's run on your layout from your youtube vids .. they don't seem to struggle at all with a grade of 3. I would love to see a vid and demo of the helix on youtube . ... Regards - Anthony ...
Fascinating topic. A little bit of optics. A little bit of math. A little bit of physics. Ultimately it's illusionary and creativity. Definitely are not worthy topic. Thank you.
Thanks! I think that your diagram doesn't yet show the second 2" layer of foam board. Ps I'll look for a running video as the finalè of your built layout.
Anthony, thanks so very much. I’m new to the hobby (at 54!) and so I’m learning as I go. I had recently seen your layout video in which you described this solution and was intrigued. So I was very pleased to see this detailed treatment. Would it be possible for you to share your layout track plan? Best regards, Bryan
Hi Bryan .. Thank u for the kind words .. much appreciated . I don't have any issue with sharing the track plans with you .. they are very simple , as I wanted to build a layout that was practical to run trains on .. I.e. that's why I don't have sidings and turn tables etc , as I find that they rarely get used . I need to dig through some binders to find the plans, as I started building this in 2008 . So I think I have something on paper .. let me find it for you . But I am more than glad to help you through the journey , to help avoid any pitfalls so that your experience with the hobby will be a pleasant one . Take a look at some of my other vids , where I share tips and tricks and short cuts . If you need help with servicing loco's , which locos to purchase , wiring , DCC , lighting , layout work , please don't hesitate to reach out .. My email is : anthonyb1019@gmail.com Regards, - Anthony -
The way you've arranged your multiple levels is clever, but it does not reduce the grade between the entrance to your tunnel and the track above it. Those two tracks appear to be joined through turnouts at the opposite end of your layout (left side of the layout from the perspective of the video), that is, you've effectively folded the grade into a switchback there, so the total grade would be determined from the elevation change between the rail height at the tunnel entrance and the rail height at the track above it, divided by the total track distance between them (the total switchback). Instead, you suggest in the video that the grade is cut in half because you're only measuring the height difference between the mid level and either the upper or lower track, but I assure you that if you do the measurements and the math for the elevation change from your mid-level to either the tunnel entrance or the track above it (doesn't matter which), you'll see that the grade is still the same as would be required for the height difference between those tracks anyway (you've cut both the height change AND the distance in half, so the result is that you haven't cheated the grade); going downslope on one leg and upslope on another does not reduce the grade; the grade between two points will always be the vertical distance divided by the horizontal distance. You can't cheat physics (though it would indeed be nice to be able t oin this hobby).
Hi Karl, You are right as in , you can't cheat physics . But that is not what is implied here . In fact , these are 2 independent loops that come to a common layer ( which is at the middle on one end . And I have used switches to provide the ability to have trains traverse from one loop to another . Infact i have setup the switches such that the trains can traverse all 3 loops .. The point I was trying to get as , is that most modelers build their entire layout at level zero .. and so the only direction they can go is upwards to have a 2nd loop that can run above the lower loop , which then requires a long run to achieve the gradeient . IF you used your mind a bit , and had your base layer 2 inches higher it addresses that issue .. again , I don't have one loop that is folded over . I have 3 distinct loops which at one end come to a common plane .. All 3 loops can run separately and simultaneously .. It's just that 2 of the loops ( the ones you think are folded , which are not ) will have gradients on them .. but they are very small gradients .
The point is that you cannot 'minimize the run' (as per your title) without changing the grade - starting at a mid elevation doesn't change anything with respect to the total run needed to get the vertical separation you want. You've fit all your elevation change at the front of the layout, but your run for the elevation change is not 7.3', it's still 14.6' unless you've changed the grade. You can minimize the *tabletop space required* for that run length by creating a spiral or a switchback (you appear to have both), but there's no such thing as 'minimizing' the run needed.
@@karlhutchings4175 - Well Karl, I think you are missing the point entirely. No one is trying to change physics All I am attempting to show fellow modellers is that If you want to have one track travel over the other , then you need approx 4 inch clearence . Rather than having one track with zero gradient on the base layer and the 2nd track having to do all the climbing ( climb 4 inches ) , you split the climb such that both tracks share the gradient ( where one track travels downwards 2 inches and the other track travels upwards 2 inches ... as simple as that . and In order to do that you create a new layer in the middle , which also adds more dimension to the layout ..
@@anthonyshobbycorner your perception of model railway grades is well known as being best practice. Splitting the grade works very well. I must admit, I still struggle working out grades as a % (the UK, Europe, Australasia etc all work as a ratio: e.g 1 in 39). I've ended up running around 10% grades with the good old N scale Kato Rhb stock, as it works fine and is in keeping with the prototype. Really good video, nice and informative. And p.s your video title is correct, as both the length of the up and down gradients is halved: you've achieved the aim of clearing the track.
You are very welcome .. I'm glad you found it useful . I will try to create a few more videos on some simple tips and tricks for the club soon .. Regards, Raju
Literally for a year I have been struggling to make sense of how to create depth/height in a layout, and despite observing many many examples in person (wonderful examples as well, definitely not their fault) my brain simply could not make it make sense. I just got so excited after watching this as it all has seemingly snapped into place. Thank you so much for this incredibly detailed yet simple to understand video!!
Hey Jamie , you are most welcome. Thank you for the kind words. I am so happy that people find value in these videos , and that is the sole reason why I create and sharing them .
Thanks Again, - Regards, - Anthony.
Best model train layout video I have seen! Great. explanation. Thank you from South Carolina, USA
Hi Tomas, Thank you so much for the kind words . Very much appreciated. Really appreciate the feedback . I hope you have a safe and happy holidays . Regards, Anthony .
Makes perfect sense and it was only a few weeks ago I thought of the same thing for my 1m x 630mm narrow gauge layout I am designing, where I want to have a grade. Thanks for the great video.
You are welcome Justin . I'm glad you are thinking ahead and planning your grades. Thanks for your kind words - Regards, Anthony .
Thanks for the video Anthony. Seeing how the elevation worked in your layout was especially helpful.
Hi , Thank you for the kind words , Very much appreciated. I'm glad you found it useful. I have been quite busy the past year and not have had a chance to create new videos. I will be getting back to it shortly .. I hope .. Lol
Regards,
Anthony .
I like the low level filming...which shows how you have managed to make this more interesting than a flat layout..great work...
Thanks David . The intent was exactly what you outlined .. how to make a layout more interesting with multiple elevations and also gain by not need a large layout to facilitate inclines .
Regards, - Anthony. -
Brilliant solution. Was struggling with slops that were to steep. This solves my problem.
Thanks Philip , Appreciate the kind words . It also adds more "depth " to your layout , now you have tracks traveling to different heights , which gives it a nice sense of complexity , as opposed to a track laid on a flat board ..
Regards, - Anthony - .
I'm loving your videos. While I'm not doing a working railroad, I am working on mini towns for holidays and whatnot that do include trains. I've made them for years, but love learning new techniques! I'm thinking about trying to get into working railroad/model train stuff. My husbands uncle is in the railroad business. He sells parts to big railroad companies. It's really interesting to learn about. I enjoyed hearing the technical "stuff" that you spoke about in this video 🙂 thank you! I hope you continue to make videos! They've been very helpful.
Adrianna , Thank you so much for the kind words . Very much appreciated. i am so glad that you enjoy the videos . I do this , purely for the enjoyment of the hobby .. If you are trying to get into model trains , please don't hesitate to shoot me an email , ( Anthonyb1019@gmail.com) and i will be more than happy to help you avoid any pit falls and unnecessary expenditure . I have not got a chance to release any videos lately , as I have been too busy with work. but I will be releasing some videos on Electronics associated with model trains ( how to wire LED's etc ) .. If you have any questions , please don't hesitate to ask ..
Regards, - Anthony ..
Cool vid Anthony, love your explanation how to achieve these different grades inside the 2% incline/decline. Absolutely agree with you on your point that the different elevations will provide a very interesting perspective, with tracks paralleling on several levels. Cheerio
I'm just starting my first layout (6" X 12"), so I'm learning thru UA-cam. This video is the single most helpful information that I've seen. Thank you!
Hi Rich , Thank you so much for the kind words. Very much appreciated . The purpose of this channel was to share any information , lessons learned etc with everyone else who has a passion for this hobby I'm going to publishing some videos on LED lighting techniques and also home made DC controllers .. Will share them with you as soon as I have them published. In the mean time , IF you need any help or consult on any topics pertaining to locomotive maintenance , DCC or DC setup , wiring , diorama tips etc .. Please don't hesitate to reach out .. Glad to assist and learn at the same time ...
Anthonyb1019@gmail.com - Regards, Anthony .
I have just started to layout mine and its HO 4'x12' - any tips you want to share?
Wow Anthony, explained very well. I made the mistake of not doing this but quickly realized it and trying to rectify when possible. Now I have a helix that trains climb without much effort because I kept it to a grade 2.2 but in my layout, I have grades edging 3. When I get a chance to do my video on my helix build, I will include this video link for added benefits for the viewers.
cheers mate, Darshan
Hi Darshan , thank you so much for the kind words . You have a huge layout so , even a grade of 3% will not look out of proportion .. And I have seen your loco's run on your layout from your youtube vids .. they don't seem to struggle at all with a grade of 3. I would love to see a vid and demo of the helix on youtube . ...
Regards - Anthony ...
Excellent narration!
Great new update today lot's of detail .Hope there more to come.
Thank you for the kinds words ... Appreciate it .. Will try to post more vids soon ... Stay safe .. Anthony ..
@@anthonyshobbycorner Thank's anthony
Fascinating topic. A little bit of optics. A little bit of math. A little bit of physics. Ultimately it's illusionary and creativity. Definitely are not worthy topic. Thank you.
Thank you for your comment . I presume you meant "note worthy" ( lol ) . I hope people find this helpful . Regards, Anthony .
Thanks! I think that your diagram doesn't yet show the second 2" layer of foam board.
Ps I'll look for a running video as the finalè of your built layout.
Anthony, thanks so very much. I’m new to the hobby (at 54!) and so I’m learning as I go. I had recently seen your layout video in which you described this solution and was intrigued. So I was very pleased to see this detailed treatment.
Would it be possible for you to share your layout track plan?
Best regards,
Bryan
Hi Bryan .. Thank u for the kind words .. much appreciated . I don't have any issue with sharing the track plans with you .. they are very simple , as I wanted to build a layout that was practical to run trains on .. I.e. that's why I don't have sidings and turn tables etc , as I find that they rarely get used .
I need to dig through some binders to find the plans, as I started building this in 2008 . So I think I have something on paper .. let me find it for you .
But I am more than glad to help you through the journey , to help avoid any pitfalls so that your experience with the hobby will be a pleasant one .
Take a look at some of my other vids , where I share tips and tricks and short cuts . If you need help with servicing loco's , which locos to purchase , wiring , DCC , lighting , layout work , please don't hesitate to reach out .. My email is : anthonyb1019@gmail.com
Regards, - Anthony -
Thank you, good explanation. Helpful….
Thanks Duane , Much appreciate ..
The way you've arranged your multiple levels is clever, but it does not reduce the grade between the entrance to your tunnel and the track above it. Those two tracks appear to be joined through turnouts at the opposite end of your layout (left side of the layout from the perspective of the video), that is, you've effectively folded the grade into a switchback there, so the total grade would be determined from the elevation change between the rail height at the tunnel entrance and the rail height at the track above it, divided by the total track distance between them (the total switchback). Instead, you suggest in the video that the grade is cut in half because you're only measuring the height difference between the mid level and either the upper or lower track, but I assure you that if you do the measurements and the math for the elevation change from your mid-level to either the tunnel entrance or the track above it (doesn't matter which), you'll see that the grade is still the same as would be required for the height difference between those tracks anyway (you've cut both the height change AND the distance in half, so the result is that you haven't cheated the grade); going downslope on one leg and upslope on another does not reduce the grade; the grade between two points will always be the vertical distance divided by the horizontal distance. You can't cheat physics (though it would indeed be nice to be able t oin this hobby).
Hi Karl, You are right as in , you can't cheat physics . But that is not what is implied here . In fact , these are 2 independent loops that come to a common layer ( which is at the middle on one end . And I have used switches to provide the ability to have trains traverse from one loop to another . Infact i have setup the switches such that the trains can traverse all 3 loops ..
The point I was trying to get as , is that most modelers build their entire layout at level zero .. and so the only direction they can go is upwards to have a 2nd loop that can run above the lower loop , which then requires a long run to achieve the gradeient . IF you used your mind a bit , and had your base layer 2 inches higher it addresses that issue .. again , I don't have one loop that is folded over . I have 3 distinct loops which at one end come to a common plane .. All 3 loops can run separately and simultaneously .. It's just that 2 of the loops ( the ones you think are folded , which are not ) will have gradients on them .. but they are very small gradients .
The point is that you cannot 'minimize the run' (as per your title) without changing the grade - starting at a mid elevation doesn't change anything with respect to the total run needed to get the vertical separation you want. You've fit all your elevation change at the front of the layout, but your run for the elevation change is not 7.3', it's still 14.6' unless you've changed the grade. You can minimize the *tabletop space required* for that run length by creating a spiral or a switchback (you appear to have both), but there's no such thing as 'minimizing' the run needed.
@@karlhutchings4175 - Well Karl, I think you are missing the point entirely. No one is trying to change physics All I am attempting to show fellow modellers is that If you want to have one track travel over the other , then you need approx 4 inch clearence . Rather than having one track with zero gradient on the base layer and the 2nd track having to do all the climbing ( climb 4 inches ) , you split the climb such that both tracks share the gradient ( where one track travels downwards 2 inches and the other track travels upwards 2 inches ... as simple as that . and In order to do that you create a new layer in the middle , which also adds more dimension to the layout ..
@@anthonyshobbycorner your perception of model railway grades is well known as being best practice.
Splitting the grade works very well. I must admit, I still struggle working out grades as a % (the UK, Europe, Australasia etc all work as a ratio: e.g 1 in 39). I've ended up running around 10% grades with the good old N scale Kato Rhb stock, as it works fine and is in keeping with the prototype.
Really good video, nice and informative. And p.s your video title is correct, as both the length of the up and down gradients is halved: you've achieved the aim of clearing the track.
Thanks raju it's very useful for me thanks a lot
You are very welcome .. I'm glad you found it useful . I will try to create a few more videos on some simple tips and tricks for the club soon .. Regards, Raju
Great explanation!!!
Thanks Brandon , Very much appreciated.
Superb info thank you . New subscriber.
Thanks Raymond , Much appreciated.