I bought some R8 collets to be used for work holding, and in this video, we make a sleeve to convert the lathe's spindle taper to R8 so I can use the collets in the lathe.
lol, yea, that old chuck works just as well or better than my normal jacobs chuck, and I still use it quite often, especially on much smaller bits which the jacobs chuck cant hold.
@@jeremycable51 They work really well, and you cant beat them. The only downfall is silver and demming style drill bits with the 3 flats on the shanks for the jacobs chucks, but as long as your bits dont have that, it's hard to tell the difference in work holding between a 2 jaw and jacobs chuck tbh. Holding the square ends of taps is one that the 2 jaw really shines imo.
Yea, they work pretty well and should defenitely be good enough of precision for anything that I really want to do, lol. Thanks for stopping in and watching mike.
Nice - great episode. Don’t I know the #30 taper is pricey. Whew! R8 and even the other metric tapers are a decent option. Glad to see the mighty power hacksaw is enjoying itself gnawing through some tough material...LOL. _Dan_
lol, that saw is hard to slow down, even tho I had to just resharpen the blade on it. I just took some diamond needle files and pulled up a chair, then filed away to sharpen the teeth. I have to do that around once a year but it'll keep keep chewing it's way through everything from that point on. Yea, #30 tapers are crazy expensive, thats why I was just planning on making some of my own taper adapters/holders myself before the viewer sent me the ones that Ive been using alot of since. Ive still thought about making some custom adapters, but mainly just for a boring head and such. Those R8 collets are pretty nice and should hold up quite nicely for most of the work that I do really, and makes it really easy to hold round steel stock and such in the lathe like we usually buy. If you really think about it, when's the last time time you bought steel, aluminum, etc and it wasnt in a fractional inch size? :P So yea, I think those collets are perfect for what I want to do with them, lol.
Yea, they work really well actually, I just need to make a new bushing for the back of the lathe, then Ill be good to go, lol. I figured that for most of my work, 3" would be more than enough room for holding whatever shanks and such that I would really need.
@10:13 - the way you wrapped the scotchbrite around the part could easily have wrapped up and entangled first your fingers, then hand, arm, etc -- it's EXTREMELY MESSY to see the videos of individuals who don't adhere to safety on sanding, et al with a lathe... please research!
Chirpy, I just made an executive decision ! I think that die-filers of yours would make a great addition the watchmakers/clock-makers bench! It just could be a bit smaller... In clocks, one often needs square holes, slots and openings 'not round'... The addition of some quality Swiss files to such a machine would make live a lot easier. I am however going to try an find a founder that can make a me cast iron from of this design... Toodles Paddy
lol, I use my die filer all the time for those applications, and most clockmakers I know of have die filers for doing that kind of stuff, gear teeth, and filing up to layout lines on the brass parts.
Nice! I would have probably sacrificed about .375 of length between centers and had a flange on the front of the adapter. So there wouldn't be such a sharp edge there. Also if you don't already have one I would make a Spindle Thread nut to protect the threads. Good job still.
I thought about doing a flange, but decided not to because it would have been sticking out a little too far, and there wouldnt be enough meat between the flange and the R8 taper. When I did face it off towards the end, there's around 1/16" flat on the front of it that doesnt really show up in camera, but it is there and softened that with a file, so it really isnt that sharp tbh. I was planning on making a spindle nose protector very soon, just getting time to get to it is the problem as with most projects, lol.
the backs of R8 collets have a 7/16"-20 threads in them for a drawbar, due to the size of that and being internal threads, the part wont let stock through them for extremely long stock, but there is plenty of room in the collets for mostly anything you would really need to hold.
Yep, make a spindle thread protector. If you damage the spindle threads, it's a class A disaster. Aluminum works fine and you can drill a couple of holes radially in the protector for a tommy bar to unscrew the protector. A flange would be really handy for the adapter. That would allow the spindle thread protector to be used to eject the adapter so you wouldn't have to bang on it from the other end of the spindle. If you extended the adapter out like Neptune suggests there would be plenty of material for the flange.
yea, I know about the spindle protector, and am planning on making one. the bushing is already made, and no use making another just to put the flange on it.
Was thinking of making a r8 adapter for my wells index it has a b&s9 taper it can be reground to r8 but it’s 800$ which is less than I got in the mill so I believe I’m gonna make the adapter then attempt to I’d grind it in the spindle on the mill
Ive seen quite a few B&S #9 collets and accessories, and being just a single taper, it wouldnt be hard at all to make your own tooling tbh. I dont think I would want to mess with the mill spindle because the chance of messing it up is pretty high, and they usually dont leave much room between the bore and bearings usually, so you start trying to grind it in and you can end up cutting the spindle off by grinding into the bearings on the OD of the spindle, and ruin the whole machine.
Part of it was a guess, but alot of it was from a spark test, how it machined, and knowing what it came from then cross referencing what it was made from. I had machined 1060 before and you can tell when machining it also, so it was pretty easy to just guess tbh.
I just purchased mine off of amazon, they have them on ebay, and all different tool suppliers tbh, it's not that hard to find them, so maybe check there?
Nice addition you have made there Chirpy. I still love the 2 jaw chuck in your tailstock. So I am guessing that your knock out bar is pretty close to the diameter of your spindle ID? You don't have much meat to smack on the sleeve you made to knock it out. Great tip with the carbide inserts. Looking forward to going to the steam show! Joe
yea, That old two jaw chuck is awesome, lol. Ive used it quite a bit and it has almost never failed me and is supprisingly easier to use than the jacobs chuck is alot of the time. That bore in the taper was counter bored a few thou at the very end to eliminate sandwiching of the back of the sleeve, and damaging it, and also that 1060 is some seriously hard stuff. I went through two high quality M42 cobalt drill bits because it just ate it, then kept having to get the carbide boring bar out to remove the work hardened area after it ate the drill bits, but having a soft ended knockout bar on the backside of it, I doubt it would ever mushroom it over enough to really mess it up. I was thinking of turning the end of that bar down to the ID of the sleeve, that way when it gets banged on, it wont let it cave in, which wouldnt be much of anything to do really. Yea, Ive been looking forwards to algonquin also and meeting you guys.
Thanks anthony, same with your cutoff tool holder you were working on, I need to make one of those for my QCTP if I ever get around to finishing that thing, lol. Ill just add that to the long list of "winter projects" to work on, lol.
Watched this after the hex block vid, again very enjoyable. I have Lorch 16mm collets (13mm capacity) direct fitted into my Lorch, Schmidt lathe´s spindle, your adapter design makes your R8s just as flush on the front, and also smaller in diameter than the chuck thread. This gives you a good chance to use the collets for a chuck backstop, I use mine like that for all critical work. Even the 3" length capacity you mention for your collets because of the internal drawbar is enough for that, just need to work out a way to extract the stop rods out the front of the collets. A tommy hole in the side of the bigger bars is one soluting, tweezers in from the side between the chuck jaws for the smaller dia. ones. I can knock them out from the back, and use rods as thin as 3/32" on small work, drilling and threading into 3mm dia. brass balls that are wont to slip back in the chuck otherwise etc. I add a plastic bush a tight push fit in the chuck bore for the thin ones, so they don´t wobble. Just a tip for a good "bonus" use of these collets.
Yea, Ive thought about using the collets as chuck back stops, and have actually done it a few times already for some work I was doing, and yea, they can defenitely be difficult to get the work out of the collets, expecially for smaller diameter stuff. I usually just bring my tailstock chuck up over the round stock that I use as the back stop, tighten it up in the tailstock, and just pull the tailstock out, pulling the stock out with it. That adapter has been an absolute blessing to have and being able to use the R8 collets in the lathe. My 6" chuck only holds stuff down to 3/8", so anything smaller, I was never able to hold it before, so I was very limited in the type of stuff I wanted to do. I ended up doing the little brass pusher for the dividing head that I showed in the hex block video in the 3/16" and 1/8" collets, which just making that part, which was that small, I felt like that limitation was lifted. Another benefit to the sleeve is that the collets are inside of the spindle itself, so you have really no overhang, so there's nowhere for anything to flex, so the whole setup is extremely rigid, and makes things very easy to swap the parts in and out after always using the 4 jaw. Having the R8 collets go from 1/8" to 7/8" and some go up to 1", that really covers most of the stock I really use for projects, so most of the time, my 4 jaw has lived in the drawer since I had gotten the sleeve made, lol.
Thanks, they all looked pretty good and for the price, I was expecting them to be somewhat, but they do work pretty well so far. A few of them looks like they hit them with a grinding wheel on an angle grinder or something, then blued them, then ground them to size, but it's just little blemishes that are at the very tips of stuff where it shouldnt really make much difference. For what I was wanting them for, they work perfect.
G day Chirpy’s 👍 nice job Went to a truck repair place yesterday trying to get hold of old valves, no luck I must have a go at making a boring bar that way, you make it look so easy👍 a two minute job all the best to ya
lol, mine actually came from old lawnmower engines, which there's old junk lawnmowers always sitting around somewhere or another if you just ask around, lol. The gears in those are handy for project, as are the springs, crackshaft is good cast steel for machining projects out of, and you can melt down the rest of it to cast new things out of it, lol. Those boring bars do work very well and is supprisingly rigid. The shanks are usually 1/4" diameter, and if brazed up like that, it'll easily fit into a 5/16" bore no problem, so that opens alot of possibilities for what you can make.
You should make a thread protector to put on the spindle when using that collet holder. You certainly wouldn't want to accidentally run into the spindle threads and ruin them.
Yea, Im already planning on it, the biggest thing I'd really be worried about is dropping something on the threads and damaging them that way, so thats why I was already looking into making the thread protector. Thank you for your concern and Ill defenitely be getting to that sometime soon.
I did use the blue off camera to test it, and said that I did, there was like 3 hours of video so some things had to get cut out so it was watchable, lol. It did blue up fine and had contact all the way up the taper. I have prussian blue ink for scraping, and just use that when bluing stuff up since I can get it so thin and really show what is contacting. Thats also why my hands went from dirty to clean a few times in the video, lol.
lol, you do what you have to do to get the job done, and that little furnace did pretty nicely for heating the bolt up to get the braze to flow. I need to get my propane forge put together sometime soon, that way I dont damage my little furnace by operating it on it's side.
cool, you'll have to let me know what your big project using those two are when you get everything leveled and wired up. everything is OK here, just been busy really.
First time I ever seen a two jaw chuck on UA-cam pushing that 3/4 drill
lol, yea, that old chuck works just as well or better than my normal jacobs chuck, and I still use it quite often, especially on much smaller bits which the jacobs chuck cant hold.
@@jeremycable51 They work really well, and you cant beat them. The only downfall is silver and demming style drill bits with the 3 flats on the shanks for the jacobs chucks, but as long as your bits dont have that, it's hard to tell the difference in work holding between a 2 jaw and jacobs chuck tbh. Holding the square ends of taps is one that the 2 jaw really shines imo.
Nice work also good to see how true the collets run ,Great vid, Mike from Cornwall UK
Yea, they work pretty well and should defenitely be good enough of precision for anything that I really want to do, lol. Thanks for stopping in and watching mike.
Nice - great episode.
Don’t I know the #30 taper is pricey. Whew! R8 and even the other metric tapers are a decent option.
Glad to see the mighty power hacksaw is enjoying itself gnawing through some tough material...LOL.
_Dan_
lol, that saw is hard to slow down, even tho I had to just resharpen the blade on it. I just took some diamond needle files and pulled up a chair, then filed away to sharpen the teeth. I have to do that around once a year but it'll keep keep chewing it's way through everything from that point on.
Yea, #30 tapers are crazy expensive, thats why I was just planning on making some of my own taper adapters/holders myself before the viewer sent me the ones that Ive been using alot of since. Ive still thought about making some custom adapters, but mainly just for a boring head and such.
Those R8 collets are pretty nice and should hold up quite nicely for most of the work that I do really, and makes it really easy to hold round steel stock and such in the lathe like we usually buy. If you really think about it, when's the last time time you bought steel, aluminum, etc and it wasnt in a fractional inch size? :P So yea, I think those collets are perfect for what I want to do with them, lol.
great job nice way to add a collet chuck to lathe
Yea, they work really well actually, I just need to make a new bushing for the back of the lathe, then Ill be good to go, lol. I figured that for most of my work, 3" would be more than enough room for holding whatever shanks and such that I would really need.
Awesome work man!! I’m glad it worked out so well!
Thanks man, just need to fix that bushing and it'll be good to go then for some serious use, lol.
@10:13 - the way you wrapped the scotchbrite around the part could easily have wrapped up and entangled first your fingers, then hand, arm, etc -- it's EXTREMELY MESSY to see the videos of individuals who don't adhere to safety on sanding, et al with a lathe... please research!
Yes, I know, but the scotchbrite was held in a way that if it did grab somehow, it was very loosly held, so it would have just spun in my hand freely.
Chirpy,
I just made an executive decision !
I think that die-filers of yours would make a great addition the watchmakers/clock-makers bench!
It just could be a bit smaller... In clocks, one often needs square holes, slots and openings 'not round'...
The addition of some quality Swiss files to such a machine would make live a lot easier.
I am however going to try an find a founder that can make a me cast iron from of this design...
Toodles
Paddy
lol, I use my die filer all the time for those applications, and most clockmakers I know of have die filers for doing that kind of stuff, gear teeth, and filing up to layout lines on the brass parts.
I could not help but notice you have the identical monarch lathe that I have
Cool, a monarch jr? Does yours have a cross slide way cover? I was wondering because Ive never seen one and was looking to make one for my lathe.
Well done. Very impressed with your lateral thinking 👍
Thank you, If you have a problem or cant afford something, there's always another way to do it, you just need to outsmart the problem, lol.
Nice! I would have probably sacrificed about .375 of length between centers and had a flange on the front of the adapter. So there wouldn't be such a sharp edge there. Also if you don't already have one I would make a Spindle Thread nut to protect the threads. Good job still.
I thought about doing a flange, but decided not to because it would have been sticking out a little too far, and there wouldnt be enough meat between the flange and the R8 taper. When I did face it off towards the end, there's around 1/16" flat on the front of it that doesnt really show up in camera, but it is there and softened that with a file, so it really isnt that sharp tbh. I was planning on making a spindle nose protector very soon, just getting time to get to it is the problem as with most projects, lol.
A spindle but will allow through jobs too.
the backs of R8 collets have a 7/16"-20 threads in them for a drawbar, due to the size of that and being internal threads, the part wont let stock through them for extremely long stock, but there is plenty of room in the collets for mostly anything you would really need to hold.
Yep, make a spindle thread protector. If you damage the spindle threads, it's a class A disaster. Aluminum works fine and you can drill a couple of holes radially in the protector for a tommy bar to unscrew the protector. A flange would be really handy for the adapter. That would allow the spindle thread protector to be used to eject the adapter so you wouldn't have to bang on it from the other end of the spindle. If you extended the adapter out like Neptune suggests there would be plenty of material for the flange.
yea, I know about the spindle protector, and am planning on making one. the bushing is already made, and no use making another just to put the flange on it.
enjoyed great job
thanks Doug, it'll definitely come in handy coming up.
Was thinking of making a r8 adapter for my wells index it has a b&s9 taper it can be reground to r8 but it’s 800$ which is less than I got in the mill so I believe I’m gonna make the adapter then attempt to I’d grind it in the spindle on the mill
Ive seen quite a few B&S #9 collets and accessories, and being just a single taper, it wouldnt be hard at all to make your own tooling tbh. I dont think I would want to mess with the mill spindle because the chance of messing it up is pretty high, and they usually dont leave much room between the bore and bearings usually, so you start trying to grind it in and you can end up cutting the spindle off by grinding into the bearings on the OD of the spindle, and ruin the whole machine.
How d you know it's 1060 or 1045? Do you do a spark test or just hope that you know where it came from?
Stavros
Part of it was a guess, but alot of it was from a spark test, how it machined, and knowing what it came from then cross referencing what it was made from. I had machined 1060 before and you can tell when machining it also, so it was pretty easy to just guess tbh.
I want to buy a groupR8
Can you help me?...
I just purchased mine off of amazon, they have them on ebay, and all different tool suppliers tbh, it's not that hard to find them, so maybe check there?
Wech lath do you have.
9x48" Monarch Jr, they're pretty rare.
Nice addition you have made there Chirpy. I still love the 2 jaw chuck in your tailstock. So I am guessing that your knock out bar is pretty close to the diameter of your spindle ID? You don't have much meat to smack on the sleeve you made to knock it out. Great tip with the carbide inserts. Looking forward to going to the steam show!
Joe
yea, That old two jaw chuck is awesome, lol. Ive used it quite a bit and it has almost never failed me and is supprisingly easier to use than the jacobs chuck is alot of the time.
That bore in the taper was counter bored a few thou at the very end to eliminate sandwiching of the back of the sleeve, and damaging it, and also that 1060 is some seriously hard stuff. I went through two high quality M42 cobalt drill bits because it just ate it, then kept having to get the carbide boring bar out to remove the work hardened area after it ate the drill bits, but having a soft ended knockout bar on the backside of it, I doubt it would ever mushroom it over enough to really mess it up.
I was thinking of turning the end of that bar down to the ID of the sleeve, that way when it gets banged on, it wont let it cave in, which wouldnt be much of anything to do really.
Yea, Ive been looking forwards to algonquin also and meeting you guys.
As always Chirp a great vid. Love the carbide angle gauge. Thinking outside the box again, love it.
Thanks cam, and at least the angle gauge wont wear out, as long as I dont drop it and break it, lol.
Very nice build for the shop and will serve you well for years.
Watching in Alabama
Thanks anthony, same with your cutoff tool holder you were working on, I need to make one of those for my QCTP if I ever get around to finishing that thing, lol. Ill just add that to the long list of "winter projects" to work on, lol.
Watched this after the hex block vid, again very enjoyable. I have Lorch 16mm collets (13mm capacity) direct fitted into my Lorch, Schmidt lathe´s spindle, your adapter design makes your R8s just as flush on the front, and also smaller in diameter than the chuck thread. This gives you a good chance to use the collets for a chuck backstop, I use mine like that for all critical work. Even the 3" length capacity you mention for your collets because of the internal drawbar is enough for that, just need to work out a way to extract the stop rods out the front of the collets. A tommy hole in the side of the bigger bars is one soluting, tweezers in from the side between the chuck jaws for the smaller dia. ones. I can knock them out from the back, and use rods as thin as 3/32" on small work, drilling and threading into 3mm dia. brass balls that are wont to slip back in the chuck otherwise etc. I add a plastic bush a tight push fit in the chuck bore for the thin ones, so they don´t wobble. Just a tip for a good "bonus" use of these collets.
Yea, Ive thought about using the collets as chuck back stops, and have actually done it a few times already for some work I was doing, and yea, they can defenitely be difficult to get the work out of the collets, expecially for smaller diameter stuff. I usually just bring my tailstock chuck up over the round stock that I use as the back stop, tighten it up in the tailstock, and just pull the tailstock out, pulling the stock out with it.
That adapter has been an absolute blessing to have and being able to use the R8 collets in the lathe. My 6" chuck only holds stuff down to 3/8", so anything smaller, I was never able to hold it before, so I was very limited in the type of stuff I wanted to do. I ended up doing the little brass pusher for the dividing head that I showed in the hex block video in the 3/16" and 1/8" collets, which just making that part, which was that small, I felt like that limitation was lifted.
Another benefit to the sleeve is that the collets are inside of the spindle itself, so you have really no overhang, so there's nowhere for anything to flex, so the whole setup is extremely rigid, and makes things very easy to swap the parts in and out after always using the 4 jaw. Having the R8 collets go from 1/8" to 7/8" and some go up to 1", that really covers most of the stock I really use for projects, so most of the time, my 4 jaw has lived in the drawer since I had gotten the sleeve made, lol.
Nice! Glad to see you did not end up with a bunch of rubbish collets.
Thanks, they all looked pretty good and for the price, I was expecting them to be somewhat, but they do work pretty well so far. A few of them looks like they hit them with a grinding wheel on an angle grinder or something, then blued them, then ground them to size, but it's just little blemishes that are at the very tips of stuff where it shouldnt really make much difference. For what I was wanting them for, they work perfect.
G day Chirpy’s
👍 nice job
Went to a truck repair place yesterday trying to get hold of old valves, no luck
I must have a go at making a boring bar that way, you make it look so easy👍
a two minute job
all the best to ya
lol, mine actually came from old lawnmower engines, which there's old junk lawnmowers always sitting around somewhere or another if you just ask around, lol. The gears in those are handy for project, as are the springs, crackshaft is good cast steel for machining projects out of, and you can melt down the rest of it to cast new things out of it, lol.
Those boring bars do work very well and is supprisingly rigid. The shanks are usually 1/4" diameter, and if brazed up like that, it'll easily fit into a 5/16" bore no problem, so that opens alot of possibilities for what you can make.
You should make a thread protector to put on the spindle when using that collet holder. You certainly wouldn't want to accidentally run into the spindle threads and ruin them.
Yea, Im already planning on it, the biggest thing I'd really be worried about is dropping something on the threads and damaging them that way, so thats why I was already looking into making the thread protector. Thank you for your concern and Ill defenitely be getting to that sometime soon.
ToT used blue ink to check the surface matchup, rather than just "feel"
Why didn't you check mating with blue?
I did use the blue off camera to test it, and said that I did, there was like 3 hours of video so some things had to get cut out so it was watchable, lol. It did blue up fine and had contact all the way up the taper. I have prussian blue ink for scraping, and just use that when bluing stuff up since I can get it so thin and really show what is contacting. Thats also why my hands went from dirty to clean a few times in the video, lol.
" Meet plan B "..... I like that! I may have to plagiarize that one !!
Paddy
lol, you do what you have to do to get the job done, and that little furnace did pretty nicely for heating the bolt up to get the braze to flow. I need to get my propane forge put together sometime soon, that way I dont damage my little furnace by operating it on it's side.
I think you really need to make a thread protector for Chuck
I already have, thanks for your concern and for watching
You should make a thread protector for your lathe.
I know and already did, just havent done any videos since to show it.
Awesome job for sure!! Love it !!
Thanks.
good job , I have my lathe running and the mill is in place all I have to do is hook it up now ,I hope all is going good for you
cool, you'll have to let me know what your big project using those two are when you get everything leveled and wired up. everything is OK here, just been busy really.
I have a hammer for the mill I made on my facebook dan van der torre you can tell its me my dad is to my left
I found your page but dont see any hammer pics or anything like that, and I dont get into facebook at all really anyhow.