Having the leadscrew contrained at the top (as the Crux has it) is actually worse, because it can overconstrain the system and induce more error. The Z-Axis is guided by the (vertical) rails, that is what positions it. If the leadscrew is held at the top AND bottom, and it is (even slightly) bent, that will induce a sideways force at the nut, possibly causing artifacts in the print. All the leadscrew is supposed to do, is define the vertical position of the arm. Any bend it might have will have less impact if it isn't constrained at the top, as it has no impact on it's actual job of mechanically setting the current z-height. It's somewhat counterintuitive, but 3d printer manufacturers keep making this same mistake over and over, I have no idea why (many historical cases can be easily googled). That all being said, it also has no negative impact UNLESS the screw is actually bent. So if your leadscrew is straight, it doesn't hurt anything either. Just be sure to check for a bend once you get artifacts, and just remove the top leadscrew bearing/fixture to possibly improve the situation.
32F427 chip- 32 bit, flash, arm M4 series with built in HW multiplier. I used a an STM32F103VBT on my 3D printer design around 13 years ago. You can switch out the standard stepper motors for ones that do twice as many steps per rev, but you have to change the calculation settings in the firmware for distance per step. I did this in my first few printers but the stepper drive chips are much better these days and it's not really needed. On older printers it made a big difference.
Hi Nathan, very nice video - I know you spent quite some time tweaking the printer, showing your process, kudos to you! The vertical artefacts you saw have a nice name: VFA , or "Vertical Fine Artifacts" and they are closely related to the stepper motor themselves. I fought for a long time with my first 3D Printer, an Ender 3 Pro, that had very ugly VFAs mostly on the Y axis. Different motors got me better or worst results... When I changed to a 0.9 degree stepper motor, I got very smooth prints (you need to adjust the number of steps per mm on the firmware) - that motor was a bit louder, though, but it ended by VFA quest on that printer. Manufacturers seem to be paying more attention to the motors they source now, and you can have smooth prints on 1.8 degree motors too, of course. I also received a Crux 1, a few months ago, and I will still review it - now I am very curious about how it will print when I open the box.
The motion system can damp out vibrations or amplify them based on how it is constructed. The key is using damping materials, like butyle rubber, sorbothane, or other vibration damping materials, and making things either way too stiff for vibrations to resonate, or way too compliant so vibrations are ignored. It's a science in itself and I don't think any 3D printer companies, except maybe Bambu Lab, have the prerequisite understanding of mechanical engineering concepts to do a proper analysis and design optimization to reduce the appearance of VFAs. PRUSA's approach of just using more expensive higher end stepper motors certainly works, but the problem could also be solved in other ways, mechanically.
You can simple short the stepper motor's pins and try to rotate the shaft to find the coil. You will know when you found it. :D (don't need anything just the motor)
I’ve been having issues with my printer. It seems to print the config cube that came preloaded but when I try to print the preloaded cat it only does about 60% of the body and then it doesn’t stay connected to the body anymore.
Did you ever change out the bearings? I’m getting one soon (printer) and bit after everyone else it seems. It could be due to the fact that the bearings have too few balls so certainly under pressure it lurches as it passes from the crown of one ball, into the gap and onto another ball crown so there is a kind of flat spot. However if there are several going which there are it should be evened out as they will not all be having the flat spot at the same time. Unless that is, they are if the pressure the bearings are under is great. The flat spots might get in sync. It’s hard to find LT reviews on the CRUX 1 and if you are still using it and if you did fix the bearings I’d be interested to hear. I do have a channel myself and also running a business I mostly manage to look at one printer in 12mths! Thanks for your insights.
You never got into the whole rollerblade craze of 90s did you? Look into the ABEC rating of the bearings. Get some bearings with a higher ABEC rating in order to cut down on that roughness.
Bed size vs practical volume are an issue from what I have seen on the Tronxy. Aurora could not print a model up to 180mm. It was more like 170 or 175. Same is probably true with the bed dimensions.
Hey Nathan. On the x adjustment tensioner it may be loose and wobbly. Once adjusted it can be tightened. Also on the Y the sliding tensioner under the bed has 2 set screws on the silver pulley that may cause some resonances. The wheels quickly get hard dirt on them causing shuddering. I do like the machine. A tank!
Interesting notes. I will do some modifications to this machine when I get a chance. I feel like the metal wheels cause some issues. And I would prefer a geared direct drive extruder so it could use a lighter stepper motor.
This patterning is typically due to the direct drive extruder. Check the extruder gear. Other option to check if it is the extruder -- switch it to bowden -- pattern goes away, it's the extruder gears
I thought of that, but the pattern is perfectly aligned across all layers. If it were caused by the extruder, as shown in mirage C's latest video, the pattern would not be Y coordinate dependant. It would shift around from layer to layer
@@NathanBuildsRobots I see a very similar pattern on my KP3S, a direct competitor to this machine. The linear rails that are supposed to be a great feature of the Kingroon are poor quality (hardly surprising for the price) and both X and Y started getting gritty and noticeably "cogging" after maybe 200 hours of printing which is when the patterns became very noticeable. Like the Tronxy the lines are always perfectly vertical even on surfaces that slope in or out which seems to rule out the extruder. The belts were getting a bit slack (another downside of the KP3S, no tensioners), but after re-tensioning them the pattern got even worse. I have ordered a couple of Hiwin rails, hopefully that fixes the problem.
I keep going through your videos and you are much better than most printer reviewers on YT. That metal induced vibration is easily mitigated with the right lubricant. I think your detective work on this is brilliant. I had similar vibration induced artifacts on my SV06...new bearings helped (because Sovol's are crap), but what helped the most was using a firearm oil to lubricate the LM8UU bearings. I realized that most oils are too thin, and all the grease I tried only slightly improved the vibration in the linear rods. I bought a bottle of Lucas extreme gun oil and applied it to the rods because I was sick of taking it apart. I took my time and did each rod 8 times or so while slowly moving the axis each direction. You will notice it slowly because you can only put so much oil on the rods at a time. It doesn't drip all over either. The claim to fame for that oil is that it doesn't move. It stays put, but it is obviously thinner than grease. I have had to reapply once in 30-40 hours of printing, but I believe that is because the bearing channels could hold more than I used initially. I only reapplied because I got a touch more noise than when I applied it the first time. It is thin enough that if you apply it to the top of the rail and then coat the rods, the rubber seals won't push it and allow the ball bearings to collect the oil in the channels. If anyone is wondering about a different brand, I would imagine Ballistol is similar to Lucas in being able to hold to the rods, but that stuff stinks really bad.
I think YT would ban me if I applied gun juice to my fully semiautomatic 3D printer. I think that is one of the things not many people realize: friction and viscosity are actually a good thing in certain situations. Frictionless systems vibrate a lot. V groove wheels, and in the case of bambu lab - brass on carbon, is not perfectly slick and actually helps cut vibrations a good amount.
The issue is the vibrations are in the distance domain, not the time domain. Meaning the vibrations are characterized by a number of cycles per mm instead of a number of cycles per second. It's going to make way more sense to fix mechanically in this case
I would if I could. I looked around for rubber wrapped U-bearings, which is what this wheel profile is called, and didn't have any luck finding them. Might have to have some custom made for this project. It would be the simplest solution to just install some replacement bearings. Then again, it might be easier to just install some linear bearings. You can get 2 for under $30
Did you check that the voltage switch is set to the correct voltage? These things ship all over the world and the North America voltage is different from the rest of the world. Most of these printers have a little red switch to set the voltage for your area on the machine. I didn't see you do anything with the switch in your video.
That is a real possibility. The most issues came during Y axis moves. And the bed carriage plate was very heavy, being made of thick steel. A good way to test this would be to do half of the print at normal speed, and the other half at a lower speed to see how the pattern changed
They might be sending one for review. Been talking to a couple of companies about sending one over. Looks like a nice machine, aside from the external power supply 😱
@@NathanBuildsRobots the Pro version of the KP3S has an INTERNAL power supply. That is why I think it would be a great comparison to the Tronxy and the ender.
@@hunt0583 oh nice. Yeah, I'm over having a 2nd power brick. I used to think it was nice, so the printer can be smaller. But it's better to use it as ballast to make the printer more stable, plus it makes it easier to transport, with less cables and stuff to pack around.
The funny thing is that when the printer does a purge line on the left side, it dumps the plastic right on that spot. So its not even following its own rules!
Is this the video you said was going to take a few more days? If it is, where’s the extruder I’ve been waiting to read your review of? Did Creality pressure you to kill that project? Don’t say, but maybe you can signal us?
Muchas gracias por compartir. Tengo problemas en la configuración de impresión con ésta Tronxy 1. Se desprende el PLA con mucha facilidad. ¿Algún vídeo guía para controlar los parámetros o variables específicos?
Hey Nathan, nice video as always (I am a big fan). I have had this printer for three months now, I am very happy about it. The only con in my opinion is not the pattern that is showing up but the awful stringing, I was expecting you would talk about this issue in your video and come up with a smart solution ;) Regarding the pattern, do you think that Input Shaper feature of Klipper would help ? This printer works on Klipper, I managed to install it but I need to work more on it. If someone is interested about Klipper on the Crux 1, please let me know.
I might be interested in the Klipper stuff. I like how well the electronics are packaged. I did have some stringing, but want super noticable on mine. I want to add linear rails to replace the metal wheels, and maybe a new extruder. Thanks for watching!
I bought one (as a 5th printer😅) and had no such issues as you. I would sugest checking esteps and temperature. My printer is doing awesome job without ANY setup. Was surprising for me. As for the marks on your print - if they were because of the bearings, they would not repeat the marks that way. You have 3 bearings, so you cannot perfectly repeatable marks of that. Again you have some calibration issues imo. Your print seems super bad :(
@@NathanBuildsRobots i have some patterns too but not as ugly as yours. No idea how to send you pictures but i even haven’t done esteps. Dehydrated filament thought!!! Have you tries a coupe of others PLA? What is your print speed?
@@KaliKavala I use standard printer profiles, nothing crazy. The glossy filament amplifies the pattern quite a bit. I have printed matte parts and you wouldn't even see it if you weren't scrutinizing it.
@@NathanBuildsRobots what do you mean by standard profile? This printer has no such :( May be you are talking about the profile as mentioned in instructions, e.g. Cura profile from another Trunxy model that has been modified. In general I see that people uses it or Kingroon K3S ones but as I am using Prusa Slic3r, I loaded the Pruca Mini profile and edited it. If you are keen on trying this out, please give us details if there were some differences. I can send you my profile if you wish (it is not really calibrated as the printer does amazingly good job without calibration).
Having the leadscrew contrained at the top (as the Crux has it) is actually worse, because it can overconstrain the system and induce more error. The Z-Axis is guided by the (vertical) rails, that is what positions it. If the leadscrew is held at the top AND bottom, and it is (even slightly) bent, that will induce a sideways force at the nut, possibly causing artifacts in the print. All the leadscrew is supposed to do, is define the vertical position of the arm. Any bend it might have will have less impact if it isn't constrained at the top, as it has no impact on it's actual job of mechanically setting the current z-height. It's somewhat counterintuitive, but 3d printer manufacturers keep making this same mistake over and over, I have no idea why (many historical cases can be easily googled).
That all being said, it also has no negative impact UNLESS the screw is actually bent. So if your leadscrew is straight, it doesn't hurt anything either. Just be sure to check for a bend once you get artifacts, and just remove the top leadscrew bearing/fixture to possibly improve the situation.
Luv your detailed rant lol.
32F427 chip- 32 bit, flash, arm M4 series with built in HW multiplier. I used a an STM32F103VBT on my 3D printer design around 13 years ago. You can switch out the standard stepper motors for ones that do twice as many steps per rev, but you have to change the calculation settings in the firmware for distance per step. I did this in my first few printers but the stepper drive chips are much better these days and it's not really needed. On older printers it made a big difference.
Hi Nathan, very nice video - I know you spent quite some time tweaking the printer, showing your process, kudos to you! The vertical artefacts you saw have a nice name: VFA , or "Vertical Fine Artifacts" and they are closely related to the stepper motor themselves. I fought for a long time with my first 3D Printer, an Ender 3 Pro, that had very ugly VFAs mostly on the Y axis. Different motors got me better or worst results... When I changed to a 0.9 degree stepper motor, I got very smooth prints (you need to adjust the number of steps per mm on the firmware) - that motor was a bit louder, though, but it ended by VFA quest on that printer. Manufacturers seem to be paying more attention to the motors they source now, and you can have smooth prints on 1.8 degree motors too, of course.
I also received a Crux 1, a few months ago, and I will still review it - now I am very curious about how it will print when I open the box.
The motion system can damp out vibrations or amplify them based on how it is constructed. The key is using damping materials, like butyle rubber, sorbothane, or other vibration damping materials, and making things either way too stiff for vibrations to resonate, or way too compliant so vibrations are ignored. It's a science in itself and I don't think any 3D printer companies, except maybe Bambu Lab, have the prerequisite understanding of mechanical engineering concepts to do a proper analysis and design optimization to reduce the appearance of VFAs. PRUSA's approach of just using more expensive higher end stepper motors certainly works, but the problem could also be solved in other ways, mechanically.
If you want to reverse a stepper motor, you should use a multimeter on continuity to find one coil. (multimeter beeps) The reverse those two wires.
Thank you, will try that next time
You can simple short the stepper motor's pins and try to rotate the shaft to find the coil. You will know when you found it. :D (don't need anything just the motor)
@@TamasJantyik Yes, I recalled that's how I usually do it when I don't have a meter handy about 20 seconds after posting 😆
That was useful info about Crux1 , and could you share the fan duct what you designed ? THX!
Check the description, should be on my Patreon
I’ve been having issues with my printer. It seems to print the config cube that came preloaded but when I try to print the preloaded cat it only does about 60% of the body and then it doesn’t stay connected to the body anymore.
Did you ever change out the bearings? I’m getting one soon (printer) and bit after everyone else it seems. It could be due to the fact that the bearings have too few balls so certainly under pressure it lurches as it passes from the crown of one ball, into the gap and onto another ball crown so there is a kind of flat spot. However if there are several going which there are it should be evened out as they will not all be having the flat spot at the same time. Unless that is, they are if the pressure the bearings are under is great. The flat spots might get in sync. It’s hard to find LT reviews on the CRUX 1 and if you are still using it and if you did fix the bearings I’d be interested to hear. I do have a channel myself and also running a business I mostly manage to look at one printer in 12mths! Thanks for your insights.
You never got into the whole rollerblade craze of 90s did you? Look into the ABEC rating of the bearings. Get some bearings with a higher ABEC rating in order to cut down on that roughness.
I ordered some from Aliexpress to try out, but i'm worried that they aren't really following ABEC standards
Another one that didn’t take off the protective film on the metal bed before sticking on the magnet. It will come back to haunt you in time!!:
Lol, I will mark your words.
Bed size vs practical volume are an issue from what I have seen on the Tronxy. Aurora could not print a model up to 180mm. It was more like 170 or 175. Same is probably true with the bed dimensions.
The Kingroon KP3S pro , same small printer with linear X and Y , tri comparison 👏
direct drive also, not Bowden like the Tronxy. I think the Kingroon blows the tronxy out of the water for the same/nearly the same price
Tronxy is direct drive. But I do want to treat the Kingroon. I asked for a printer but they sent me a PEX sheet instead 😆
Hey Nathan. On the x adjustment tensioner it may be loose and wobbly. Once adjusted it can be tightened. Also on the Y the sliding tensioner under the bed has 2 set screws on the silver pulley that may cause some resonances. The wheels quickly get hard dirt on them causing shuddering. I do like the machine. A tank!
Interesting notes. I will do some modifications to this machine when I get a chance. I feel like the metal wheels cause some issues. And I would prefer a geared direct drive extruder so it could use a lighter stepper motor.
I have the same machine and I don't have that issue. So it's just something off with yours if that helps...
Appreciate the detailed review and discussion on ringing patterns. Off to watch your KP3S video to see how it compares. Subscribed 👍
What on earth goes on with that wire stuck into the wall plate over on the right? o.O
This patterning is typically due to the direct drive extruder. Check the extruder gear. Other option to check if it is the extruder -- switch it to bowden -- pattern goes away, it's the extruder gears
I thought of that, but the pattern is perfectly aligned across all layers.
If it were caused by the extruder, as shown in mirage C's latest video, the pattern would not be Y coordinate dependant. It would shift around from layer to layer
@@NathanBuildsRobots I see a very similar pattern on my KP3S, a direct competitor to this machine. The linear rails that are supposed to be a great feature of the Kingroon are poor quality (hardly surprising for the price) and both X and Y started getting gritty and noticeably "cogging" after maybe 200 hours of printing which is when the patterns became very noticeable. Like the Tronxy the lines are always perfectly vertical even on surfaces that slope in or out which seems to rule out the extruder. The belts were getting a bit slack (another downside of the KP3S, no tensioners), but after re-tensioning them the pattern got even worse. I have ordered a couple of Hiwin rails, hopefully that fixes the problem.
I keep going through your videos and you are much better than most printer reviewers on YT. That metal induced vibration is easily mitigated with the right lubricant. I think your detective work on this is brilliant.
I had similar vibration induced artifacts on my SV06...new bearings helped (because Sovol's are crap), but what helped the most was using a firearm oil to lubricate the LM8UU bearings. I realized that most oils are too thin, and all the grease I tried only slightly improved the vibration in the linear rods. I bought a bottle of Lucas extreme gun oil and applied it to the rods because I was sick of taking it apart. I took my time and did each rod 8 times or so while slowly moving the axis each direction. You will notice it slowly because you can only put so much oil on the rods at a time. It doesn't drip all over either.
The claim to fame for that oil is that it doesn't move. It stays put, but it is obviously thinner than grease. I have had to reapply once in 30-40 hours of printing, but I believe that is because the bearing channels could hold more than I used initially. I only reapplied because I got a touch more noise than when I applied it the first time. It is thin enough that if you apply it to the top of the rail and then coat the rods, the rubber seals won't push it and allow the ball bearings to collect the oil in the channels.
If anyone is wondering about a different brand, I would imagine Ballistol is similar to Lucas in being able to hold to the rods, but that stuff stinks really bad.
I think YT would ban me if I applied gun juice to my fully semiautomatic 3D printer.
I think that is one of the things not many people realize: friction and viscosity are actually a good thing in certain situations. Frictionless systems vibrate a lot. V groove wheels, and in the case of bambu lab - brass on carbon, is not perfectly slick and actually helps cut vibrations a good amount.
could you solve the problem of the ball bearing artifacts by installing klipper with input shaper enabled? the lines remind me of frequency artifacts.
The issue is the vibrations are in the distance domain, not the time domain. Meaning the vibrations are characterized by a number of cycles per mm instead of a number of cycles per second.
It's going to make way more sense to fix mechanically in this case
Nice Review ! would be cool you compare this Tronxy with an Kingroon KP3s :-)
I have one of those on my floor
Currently working through my editing backlog but will review it asap
i giggled everytime Nathan said "balls" Sorry. Great Video BTW.
😁
The big capacitor is to delay the turn off time to prevent damaging the components including the ram
Interesting, I need to get further into PCB design and safety features like that
maybe add a thin rubber material between the bearing and the rod to try and dampen the vibrations of the bearing wheels?
I would if I could. I looked around for rubber wrapped U-bearings, which is what this wheel profile is called, and didn't have any luck finding them.
Might have to have some custom made for this project. It would be the simplest solution to just install some replacement bearings.
Then again, it might be easier to just install some linear bearings. You can get 2 for under $30
Did you check that the voltage switch is set to the correct voltage? These things ship all over the world and the North America voltage is different from the rest of the world. Most of these printers have a little red switch to set the voltage for your area on the machine. I didn't see you do anything with the switch in your video.
I looked at it, I think it was set correctly from the factory.
@@NathanBuildsRobots should be at 110 if you're in North America.
Interesting, may be the resonance of the printer is causing the roughness on the prints
That is a real possibility. The most issues came during Y axis moves. And the bed carriage plate was very heavy, being made of thick steel.
A good way to test this would be to do half of the print at normal speed, and the other half at a lower speed to see how the pattern changed
Interesting, looking at tronxy, was thinking rails myself
I would pay an extra $20 if this came with linear rails! I am personally fine with passing the cost on to the consumer in this case.
I like to see Chinese products finally getting respect, and not being mocked for being knock offs.
Prusa Mini Clone! :P
@@NathanBuildsRobots😂😂 you’re troublesome
You didn’t mention the BIQU Huracan?
On this video? Or the other video?
Hello I just saw the video on the Tronxy crux1 but I don't see where to find the blower
It is on my Patreon post. I think it's the 1st link.
Update: it wasn't linked here, but I added it to the description now
@@NathanBuildsRobots Ok i see thk
can you review the kingroon kp3s pro? it is a similar machine with a 200mmx200mmx190mm print build volume
They might be sending one for review. Been talking to a couple of companies about sending one over. Looks like a nice machine, aside from the external power supply 😱
@@NathanBuildsRobots the Pro version of the KP3S has an INTERNAL power supply. That is why I think it would be a great comparison to the Tronxy and the ender.
@@NathanBuildsRobots The power supply is integrated into the base on the Pro model.
@@hunt0583 oh nice. Yeah, I'm over having a 2nd power brick. I used to think it was nice, so the printer can be smaller. But it's better to use it as ballast to make the printer more stable, plus it makes it easier to transport, with less cables and stuff to pack around.
@@NathanBuildsRobots agreed.
No sundries here? Never seen that on a warning label before.
The funny thing is that when the printer does a purge line on the left side, it dumps the plastic right on that spot. So its not even following its own rules!
@@NathanBuildsRobotsSundered 😲
thanks for the honest review 👍👍
No problem 👍
Is this the video you said was going to take a few more days? If it is, where’s the extruder I’ve been waiting to read your review of? Did Creality pressure you to kill that project? Don’t say, but maybe you can signal us?
Lol it's in the works!
🙁😣🙁😣
Muchas gracias por compartir. Tengo problemas en la configuración de impresión con ésta Tronxy 1. Se desprende el PLA con mucha facilidad. ¿Algún vídeo guía para controlar los parámetros o variables específicos?
en discord hay mucha gente que puede ayudar
Hey Nathan, nice video as always (I am a big fan). I have had this printer for three months now, I am very happy about it. The only con in my opinion is not the pattern that is showing up but the awful stringing, I was expecting you would talk about this issue in your video and come up with a smart solution ;)
Regarding the pattern, do you think that Input Shaper feature of Klipper would help ?
This printer works on Klipper, I managed to install it but I need to work more on it. If someone is interested about Klipper on the Crux 1, please let me know.
I might be interested in the Klipper stuff. I like how well the electronics are packaged. I did have some stringing, but want super noticable on mine.
I want to add linear rails to replace the metal wheels, and maybe a new extruder. Thanks for watching!
@@NathanBuildsRobots I just joined your discord server, send me a message if you need details regarding the klipper installation procedure
I bought one (as a 5th printer😅) and had no such issues as you.
I would sugest checking esteps and temperature. My printer is doing awesome job without ANY setup. Was surprising for me.
As for the marks on your print - if they were because of the bearings, they would not repeat the marks that way. You have 3 bearings, so you cannot perfectly repeatable marks of that.
Again you have some calibration issues imo. Your print seems super bad :(
I have been printing with it and getting good results, aside from those wavy patterns.
@@NathanBuildsRobots i have some patterns too but not as ugly as yours.
No idea how to send you pictures but i even haven’t done esteps. Dehydrated filament thought!!!
Have you tries a coupe of others PLA? What is your print speed?
@@KaliKavala I use standard printer profiles, nothing crazy. The glossy filament amplifies the pattern quite a bit. I have printed matte parts and you wouldn't even see it if you weren't scrutinizing it.
@@NathanBuildsRobots what do you mean by standard profile? This printer has no such :(
May be you are talking about the profile as mentioned in instructions, e.g. Cura profile from another Trunxy model that has been modified.
In general I see that people uses it or Kingroon K3S ones but as I am using Prusa Slic3r, I loaded the Pruca Mini profile and edited it.
If you are keen on trying this out, please give us details if there were some differences. I can send you my profile if you wish (it is not really calibrated as the printer does amazingly good job without calibration).
@@KaliKavala I ran Prusa slicer profile for ender 3 v2 with retractions reduced to 2 mm
Add the Kingroon KPS with linear rails for comparison.