I actually like this video a lot & for some extra evidence around the "Itachi's Timeline Dilemma" part of the video the 2nd databook also confirms Itachi was 13 years old when he ascended to anbu captain.
I think one possibility is itachi tsukuyomi'd orichumaru or whoever the hidden akataski member is and made him experience time different and he actually experienced 7 years in the time people experienced 4 or whatever. It would be interesting if he actively messed with people's perspectives/experience of time more often for plot reasons since he's fully capable of it. It's all absolute pure head cannon obviously.
So the timeline of him joining the Akatsuki at 10, and being an Anbu Captain at 13, doesn't present issues to my perspective if you draw the conclusion he is simply in both factions, nor does the idea "He only becomes an Akatsuki member after leaving present issue." Could it not be argued that he only becomes a member after deserting, thus making him a full-fledged member, and it would only become public knowledge after the fact. And why his actions weren't questioned by other members is because of Obito's interference.
If Itachi was a bad guy, he and Kisame would have stomped Konoha. Kurenai, Asuna, Kakashi, and Gai would be dead. Sasuke would have been dead in the Uchiha Massacre unless he wanted eternal magekyou which he would have set up by genjutsu-ing Sasuke to make a best friend and having him kill them. Jiraiya would have been in a 1vs2 situation and probably die. Naruto would have been taken by them and have Kurama extracted.
@@johnlucas2838 That's not true. Just because he didn't body everyone doesn't mean he wasn't any less written to be a bad guy in the beginning. Itachi was working for the Akatsuki and doing covert operations. He wouldn't just kill everyone just because he can. The Akatsuki aren't supposed to be well known and going on a killing spree would just draw attention. That's why Itachi told Kisame not to fight Guy, because it would draw too much attention
@@johnlucas2838if Orochimaru was really such a bad guy he would have killed every single Genin in the forest. But he didn't so I guess with your logic he's actually a really nice guy!
Konoha Village: "Itachi was the hero of the leaf all along" Kakashi: "He violently tortured me for 3 straight days, so brutally that it put me into a freaking coma. Just because he felt like it"
Kakashi has done countless evil shit as an ANBU. 😵💫 Also, the village never said Itachi was a hero. The most damage control for Itachi’s name that was done was simply wiping his name out of history books as the one that killed the clan. The books just say a tragedy occurred. This was shown when Sarada tried to learn about her clan’s history and found no information about the Massacre.
@@Bloooo95 what „evi shit“ has the guy actually done? Tell me, because the most evil thing he could’ve done was kill someone’s from a neighbour village, last time I checked that’s what ninja do.
Itachi held back, even Kakashi noticed it, 3 days in that world, less then a moment, in this one, why not kill me? If he wanted to, he would've.. what Kakashi is saying is.. he knows Itachi held back, but at that time, he doesn't know why, I think by the time they next meet in Shippuden, Kakashi suspects that there is more to Itachi then what was "said" about him, since he didn't go all out on Itachi, despite knowing how dangerous Itachi was
@@samuelhaverghast2442 Even so Itachi could have never predicted Kakshi would be arisen from his coma by Tsunade. For all Itachi knew he spared Kakashi's life but he would forever after remain in a coma; weakening Konoha. For that matter, Itachi always went too far when traumatizing people. If Sasuke was like 99% of people he would have just been traumatized by the massacre, had his spirit broken, and given up on being a shinobi.
Some people say that he motivated sasuke to get him stronger by torturing him but is it really worth it? Trauma in exchange for power. Also he told him to kill his best friend for temporary power mangekeyo sharingan. Also he helped Akatsuki in evil stuff and then all of a sudden he was a spy
Obito> Pain> Itachi doesnt matter If is healthy or Sick ( plus Itachi healthy we Never seen him anyways he doesnt exist in the Verse) Itachi CANT Win against The leaders
Oh Yeah i agreed Itachi is the 3° strongest for sure. I don't know How people think Itachi would beat Them That's some Itachis girls bulshit. He definitely doesnt have stamina and chackra to beat ALL The pains in a fight And to beat Orange mask he would have to beat kamui and izanagi which i don't think he would be able to That's about It
I would go as far to say that Itachi's true nature was subtly foreshadowed ever since Part 1. Around Chapter 7, Sasuke says he remembers Itachi crying at the night of the massacre, which is telling. Sasuke remembers seeing Itachi crying, but he just doesn't understand why and seems to be subliminally suppressing the memory. There's also an instance in Chapter 140 where Itachi leaves a plate of dango behind for Sasuke, as Itachi and Kisame were both sitting there just beforehand. There's also Itachi's specific words towards Sasuke: "If you want to kill me, settle for hating me! Hate me and live like the coward you are! Cling to life without honor!" If I recall correctly, this is in reference to a popular piece of Japanese media that actually did tip off the Japan fanbase about Itachi's true nature. Furthermore, one should recall Itachi's initial design and how it featured his arm slung through the front of his cloak, which can also be taken a clear reference to a ronin; an honorable samurai that lacks a master. People criticize Itachi's handling of Sasuke, but isn't that the literal point? His handling of Sasuke was completely atrocious, with both Naruto and Sasuke calling him out on it; Itachi even admits this himself. That's why he asks Naruto to save Sasuke, because if anyone could it would be him. Itachi is a good shinobi that was able to put his loyalty to the village and his mission above everyone else (Sasuke being the sole exception), but emotionally he's a total dumbass and he admits to both himself and Sasuke that he royally fucked up. Also Kishimoto straight up said in an interview he always had a reason for Itachi's part in the Uchiha massacre as more than it seemed, even if he had yet to decide what that that reason specifically was.
@@shinji136 Wrong on both counts, in the original Japanese manga Sasuke's exact words were "あの時... 泣いてた" which translates to "That time... Was crying." The Japanese text was ambiguous as to who was crying, but some early English translations assumed it was Sasuke and said it was him. This is a classic example of fine details sometimes getting lost in translation.
@@Intrepid_Explorer This might have been correct if Sasuke didn't literally remember things as him passing out before Itachi cried (seen in the part 1 Naruto vs Sasuke battle) and then said to Tobi that it was a suppressed memory that only resurfaced days after Itachi's death.
8:17 I kind of really dig this original idea of Itachi being the Human Monster amongst other actual Monsters. That could have had some genuinely interesting story avenues to explore.
In Part I Itachi is 18-19 years old, assuming he slaughtered his clan, joined the Akatsuki, and became a captain all at age 12, then the 7 years makes perfect sense
Itachi was 12 when he became a anbu captain and massacred the Uchiha. I figured this out before the novel was released because of him and Sasuke's ages. They rectified the inconsistencies with the novel and said Danzo and Hiruzen raised his official age to 13 when he turned 12 which is why Kakashi thought he was 13 when he became anbu captain.
Itachi is truly PATHETIC and it honestly baffles me how many fans don't see that. He was also a supreme COWARD and a Rat who's in competition with "Rat haired Shanks 🐀". Now I do like itachi regardless but this is due to his design, abilities, voice, and swag but his story Is grade A+ in awful. Now I won't talk about all this trash without backing it up, but it's going to be a bit long so buckle up and remove your sharingan tinted glasses. The oppressed Uchiha 🚶 Before we begin on itachi specifically we need to talk about the Uchihas as a whole. The Uchiha were one of the duo founders of the leaf along with the senju and this came from a desire for peace after years of battle. But the Uchihas were always looked down on... They were given the police force because they were good at it but it was also to keep a close eye on the Uchihas. After the nine tails attack the leaf then turned around THE NEXT DAY and blamed them for the attack then without explanation RIPPED them from their homes and moved them to the edges of the village. This OBVIOUSLY infuriated the Uchihas because they felt betrayed and were being oppressed by the leaf. Many people always look at itachi and his mental issues when killing his family but never really analyze WHY the coup happened in the first place. Let's talk itachi 🧐=🤡 He was a great Shinobi and a very book smart character equal to that of the hokage ( tho he doesn't have the wisdom of a hokage) But itachi was very mentally troubled and honestly if "Better Help" existed in the Naruto verse he'd be the number 1 subscriber. Itachi was introduced to death and killed his first man at around 5-6 years old....( I blame fugaku for him being there) Itachi also over thinks literally everything while he is 5 years old, questioning what a village is and what the Uchihas think etc. He even at FIVE YEARS OLD tried to off himself.....what five year old do you know of is trying to off himself?????????? Bro has issues and BAD ones, needles to say his mental health wasn't all there. He later joins the anbu and this made fugaku ecstatic BECAUSE he could finally get some answers on why there in the situation that there in.... because the leaf told them NOTHING. So guess what itachi dose to quell the anxiousness of his clan....he tells them absolutely nothing 😮. -He doesn't tell his family that an investigation is on going and that after everything will be ok. - he didn't tell them to bear with the situation a little longer and everything will be ok. NOTHING! but guess what Ratachi did do...he IMMEDIATELY snitched to the leaf of his family's potential rebellion from oppression. 🐀 Then itachi became fearful of a war that WASN'T HAPPENING, a "A WHAT IF WAR" ( his young mind was overthinking again). And he decided to listen to DANZO instead of asking and receiving guidance from the hokage and decided to kill his family because they would cause trouble for the leaf if they rebelled. He went to Obito and begged Obito to just kill his family but leave the leaf alone then partnered with him to execute the massacre. And slaughtered his entire clan that night except Sasuke. Afterwards loving brother itachi made Sasuke watch him kill his mom and dad as well as everyone else for TWENTY FOUR HOURS (TWICE). THEN told him to kill his friend to gain some power. Allat so Sasuke can come back and kill itachi like some Suicide on Lay-a-way. Nevermind poor Sasuke and his mental anguish this caused. B-But he had no choice 🤡🧢 Itachi had SEVERAL choices he could have done. 1.) He could have equally sided with his family and told them that everything would be ok and told them what's ACTUALLY going on instead of leaving the poor Uchihas to speculate. 2.) Use the kotoamatsukami on either fugaku, or the hokage to receive better treatment. 3.) If he had to kill someone why not all the combatants? He could have killed the fighters and WOUNDED fugaku ( he was honestly a good man) this would have left Sasuke with family and he could have dipped, then he later could tell Sasuke he did that so that all the Uchihas wouldn't die vs the leaf... 4.) Instead of erasing his whole family for the leaf what if he sided with his oppressed family and DEMANDED better treatment 5.) If this was all about Sasuke he could have taken him and dipped the let what happens happen. Etc. And get this....he already stopped the coup in about 1 hour of the massacre 👀🤯. He killed the combatants and fugaku was standing down.....SO WHY DID HE NEED TO KILL HIS MOM, or grandma, grandpa, BABIES, his girlfriend etc.???? It's like if you break into a country and kill the prez then proceed to kill all the civilians and elderly..FOR WHAT??? and afterwards he dipped, put on nail polish and jointed the Akatsuki 💅 and was actively helping the organization with their plans. He was actively trying to kidnap Naruto which would have endangered not only the leaf but the whole world. Not ONCE did you see Ratachi snitch on the Akatsuki or actively sabotage or go against any of their plans. Naruto fans: "B-But he was a spy and relayed info on the Akatsuki to the leaf".🤡 No he wasn't. Tell me why the leaf knew NOTHING about the Akatsuki AT ALL. nor what their actual plan was until they had to figure it out. Itachi was a lunatic and it's silly that people don't see that and only go by story narrative. Kishimoto wanted to retcon itachi due to mass popularity, so he made a story on why he did what he did but it was terrible. His parents on their death bed were praising itachi was the cringest thing I ever heard in all of anime. Like why are you praising itachi for killing his entire family due to them wanting to stop being oppressed? And fugaku should be like why are you attacking your mother??? She's not a fighter. Like imagine being on your hands and knees with your wife as YOUR SON is getting ready to decapitate you both all because of a "what if hypothetical war" and the fact that you DARE buck back against the leaf....then you praise him " your such a kind boy" 💀💀💀. Bruh the story is trash. And if it WASN'T a retcon like most fans say then that just proves kishimoto must have been high that day. I'll stop here because itachi is a fan favorite and he would be defended to the death with made up senarios and wacky explanations but he was terrible. 10/10 design and powers -69/10 in story.
I just never felt like his only option was to kill all the Uchiha. If he could do that single handedly why not tell the hokage and trust him to handle it with the support of all Konoha? Why not just key Uchiha leaders? I can think of more options than this that seem better than the genocide he committed. For plot sake I just accepted he had no options, but I really, really was bothered by this.
Here is my take on it. Was it the only option? No, but the problem was most other options had problems with them. For instance going to the Hokage would have taken time. Time he may not have had with not only Donzo pushing for the death of the Uchiha's, but also the clan starting the coup. If the Hokage took to long to act one of those things could have happened. Killing the key leaders of the Uchiha clan? Now this could possibly work, but it also could ignite the other Uchiha into doing the coup anyway. However even if the other Uchiha wouldn't have decided to get vengeance for their leaders Donzo probably would have killed them anyway. Remember there had been a perfect option to end all of this peacefully in Itachi's friend(forgetting his name) who was going to use his insanely OK sharigan Genjutsu to basically force the Uchiha to no longer start a coup. Yet Donzo stopped that from happening. Unless I am misremembering something.
@@donovan4222 I feel like the story *says* there were no other options, but doesn’t really show that there were no other options. For instance, if Itachi spared kids and babies the story doesn’t explain why that would be an immediate threat. For the sake of enjoying the intentions of the show, I mainly suspend disbelief and accept the “no other option premise.”
Itachi was definitely retconned, telling Sasuke to grow up full of hatred and kill his best friend makes no sense if you want to keep him safe, if he were to have killed his best friend he’d have become a criminal lol
No, and itachi never claimed to be good. In fact he flat out admits to screwing up everything as an edo tensei. Stop simping for this man. Itachi's a badass character, but he's not even close being a hero. If itachi's a hero, than Eren Yeager is the biggest hero in anime.
I refuse to believe Kishimoto started out with the intention to make Itachi Good All Along. Why? Because his plan for Sasuke relied purely on chance. How? When they had their "rematch" at the inn and Itachi brutally beat Sasuke, he used Tsukiyomi on Sasuke again. It was so bad this put Sasuke into a coma. One that ONLY Tsunade could help Sasuke to recover from. Itachi had no guaranteee Tsunade would return to the village to heal Sasuke. It took Naruto beating Kabuto and saving Tsunade to convince her. That and learning the Rasengan. It leaves too much room for Itachi's plan to fail, relying on an AWOL Sannin to come back of her own free will, and actually heal Sasuke enough he comes out of the Tsukiyomi-induced coma.
@@Crunchysopa52 Exactly. Itachi may have Kage-level intellect, but he can't see the future. Or read the script. Itachi stans give the Good All Along justification too much credit. Also consider that Itachi planned to use the crow to brainwash Sasuke to go back to the Leaf Village. But Naruto intercepted it by mistake.
I think you missed an important detail in the video and apparently also in the comments no one mentioned it. At the very beginning of Naruto in chapter 7, Sasuke stated "that time... crying..." or at least this is the english translation that seems to imply Sasuke was crying. But a better translation for this sentence is "that time... was crying...". Indeed if we look at the Japanese Kanji ( あの時... 泣いてた ) used in this sentece in chapter 7 we can notice that it is the same used in chapter 403 when Sasuke, after the truth about Itachi was told by Obito, remembers how Itachi was crying the night of the massacre. So to all people in the comments absolutely sure that Itachi's story was a retcon I would ask: why Kishimoto showed us this detail very early in Naruto? Why would he tell us that a murder like Itachi cried that night?
I believe Kishi left the story open-ended both ways, that's why you see Kakashi question why Itachi didn't kill him and why you also see him humilate Sasuke to draw out his darkness further. Also, the end panel of Naruto you can clearly see Pain,Sasori,Deidara,Kisame,Itachi,Zetsu at the very least.
I appreciate this analysis. It reminded me of the plot holes I overlooked because I was a fanboy. It presents the facts now that I'm older and have refined taste. I'm not embarrassed that I loved such a mid show. I get to enjoy it again as I care less about what others think of my taste. It's joyful.
Even if the worst happened with Sasuke in that Orochimaru took over his body, Itachi has the totsuka blade to get rid of Orochimaru and free Sasuke, and its very likely that Orochimaru would be going after Itachi once he took Sasuke's body in order to gain the EMS which Itachi also knew and was counting on.
He says at one point in the early part 1 flashback that he’d “always be there for sasuke even as an obstacle to overcome” that was clear as day planning Itachis true intention with sasuke. So I don’t think you can call this a plothole. It’s probably the most well thought out thing in the series
The first seen of itachi came immediately after the 3rd hokage died it was more about reminding the village that he can still do something if they touch Sasuke, cause a lot of people were after Sasukes eyes. You just overthinking the first part, he had to give them a slapping so they remember how powerful he is, cause it seemed like they forgot to the point kurnia would try to attack him using genjutsu
What if Minato and Fugaku were brothers? What if HQ found Sage Kabuto in the 4th war? What if Itachi gained Rinnegan? What if Sakumo & Jiraiya fought in the 4th war?
Shisui says he left a note before he jumps off the cliff, and in part 1 that tear scene is mentioned by sasuke during the bell test, it's a pretty quick like to sakura.
Itachi killed his family for the Village. Imagine that. By serving your country, your morally bankrupt actions would magically be justified because you wiped the blood on your hand by serving your country. Is Konoha good? If not, then Itachi isn't good for siding with it by serving it. Imagine your country, your home, blaming you for something you didn't do and relocated your entire family to the outskirts of the town-that's called Population movement, it's a War crime because it would lead to genocide-isolating you from your allies, being put under constant surveillance, stripping you of your rights as a founding clan, dehumanizing you, oppressed your family, then ultimately being put down like animals in their cages. Itachi sided with that Village even though he saw that his family was being oppressed, shoved into the corner so that their cries and grievances wouldn't be heard. No wonder the Uchiha's were planning a coup de'tat, if you want your children to have a future, then you better fight back against oppression. Itachi was supposed to be a pacifist but his solution for civil unrest was genocide. He could have done what Gandhi did when he fought the cast system if he didn't want a civil war to happen. Or he could have just left the Village with Sasuke in tow, at least then he wouldn't have blood on his hands. I thought he was supposed to be a genius.
Itachi’s motives are pretty clear he was a true double agent he used his genjutsu on both kakashi and sasuke to show them both how advanced his shargingon was and this drove them to get stronger with him going to get Naruto at the hotel he knew jiraya would catch up to them and save Naruto he wouldn’t break his cover unless absolutely necessary if he did this to early then he couldn’t die by saskue itachi and danzo are a similar kind of character both using evil motives but there pure intention was good
okay one thing i want to point out. You said that Shisui didnt make a not and it wasnt mentioned and put forward the idea that itachi wrote the note himself. The thing is when shisui jumps off the cliff with itachi right there he told itiachi he had already wrote a note. i watched it yesterday rewatching shippuden. go back and watch it yourself. he def says it to itachi before "unaliving himself" (and i laugh when people say this. i heard thats only a tiktok thing using that term but on YT you can say the S word)
One important thing I think people aren't fully considering is that Itachi was said to have "wiped out the Uchiha clan by himself" from the earliest stages of the story. You could argue that Itachi has always been written as Godly OP and so that's originally what happened before a retcon, but the early writing heavily pushed the idea that the Uchiha are super powerful so would it really make sense that Itachi could kill them all on his own without causing an uproar? Basically what I'm getting at is that even the original writing secretly included the idea of someone helping Itachi so at least a big chunk of Itachi's story probably wasn't a retcon.
I dont understand this "Bad motivation" argument. If he wanted to kill everyone in his clan just to test his abilities, then thats it. He's just a crazy guy... That's just how evil he is. Kisame literally has itachi's original motivation...and everyone still loves him. Itachi would've turned on Obito regardless anyway, it would've been cool if he did it to test his ability again. Honestly, it would've been better than the bs he put Sasuke thru. Sasuke is all fked up because itachi. And that was itachi being nice.
its been a long time since i've seen the series but from what i've remembered i never saw Itachi as a bad guy i saw him as a double agent for the leaf and the akatsuki
My take on this is that Itachi was always supposed to be good but the timeline for when he joined the Akatsuki doesn't add up. In chapter 7 Sasuke says "That time he was crying" when he was referring to Itachi which we later learn is a important part of the Uchiha massacre. Sasuke even directly mentions that moment as him trying to forget it after he finds out the truth of Itachi.
EVERYONE I knew at the time was saying itachi was a good guy. I think the author always kept it open as an option on purpose and when he decided to up the power cieling he decided to use the option to make itachi good.
hmmmm.. my question to this however, what was supposed to be sasuke's character arc if itachi was just evil? like once he had killed itachi, what was he supposed to do?
The age part is wrong on your side. Itachi killed whole clan when he was 13. By the end of part 1, Itachi was 20. So yeah, Itachi destroyed Orochimaru when he was 13.
I think I will solve the dilemma by actually making Root Anbu the real killers. However Itatchi took the fall to protect the peace because he is a protag. Sasuke's recollection of events was a tsukoyomi, not true because Itatchi changed his memory when they saw each other. Sarutobi also likely thought it better to defeat Danzo with a rogue min then one of his Anbu.
Didn't the 'seven long years' mean that Orochimaru was in Akatsuki for 7 years? Hmm, yeah this is kind of weird they can't make up their mind about when Orochimaru left, so nevermind I guess.
I loved the vid but I will say that the first time we meet Itachi he did have a need to flex his muscles to intimidate Danzo so some of his actions can be explained in that light.
and everyone with the common sense knows that Kakashi survived because of plot armour, and he is very lucky that he didn't die because of Itachi's tsukuyomi or got out of his mind, fortunately he happened to have enough willpower to survive it but still was put into vegetative state and nobody knows what would have happened to him if Tsunade didn't return
I don’t think people in this comment section get what foreshadowing is. Kishimoto could’ve just been vague about Itachi’s true motives so that he’d be able to maneuver around a plot twist in the future
When Itachi tortured Kakashi for 3 days...I was for sure on board with Evil Itachi. Honestly, I was kinda upset that he was a good guy. I imagine that if Itachi wanted to be stronger than Madara...he could've. He was "KCM2 Naruto level" healthy...that's approaching base Madara no sharingan/no Hashi cells. What could've been....should've been...but we got Aliens instead.
What have you taught she has issues with kakashi because he has a sharingan and he isn't a Uchiha? Every other Uchiha at one point has had issues with it
For Kakashi, he could've straight up killed him he was more than strong enough to do so, but instead chose torture knowing that it was dangerous to overuse his eyes.
Do be fair and play devils advocate here- Itachi's motivations were never known before we find out from obito. In fact sasuke asks in his flashback "why are you doing this big brother" and he says to tests his abilities. The problem with this is that Itachi is hinted at having deep feelings for the village ever since part 1 (I know you talk about this in the video where Kisame asks Itachi). I believe that Itachi's true motivations were kept vague for a reason so that Kishimoto-Sensei could decide later how he wants to structure his character and story once revealed. Authors purposely leave things vague on purpose, or even give easily rebutted characters motivations or facts so that it's more obvious and natural that clearly it was never a character's true story/purpose. However you are right when you talk about Itachi placing Kakashi into a genjustu, there could've been easier ways to take Kakashi out of the fight without torturing him- but maybe Itachi felt that Kakashi was powerful and risky to take on in a head on battle- so he used tsukuyomi to get him out of the battle asap. However that 7 years comment by Orochimaru was obviously a timeline mistake as we can all agree. Itachi probably couldnt have been an akatsuki member until the massacre. Now I guess this theory of yours relies on this 7 years statement on the timeline, but as we all know Kishimoto isnt exactly great with the arranging timelines. I do agree that it would be interesting if that meant that Itachi WAS a bad guy and secretly joined the akatsuki at 10 before the massacre even happened- essentially being a real traitor/terrorist. Your theory has merit, but I personally believe his story was purposely left vague and Kishimoto just made a mistake about the timeline statement. Great video though.
I think he did have some retcon. Maybe sometimes I can see itachi was supposed to be a bit more of an asshole but he wanted Sasuke to get stronger. But he wasn’t supposed to be team Leaf Village. Which is why he almost kills Kakashi. But then at part twos beginning he seems to be a much better person. Especially with how he acts and what he does.
Itachi's "you need more hate" speech to Sasuke really doesn't make sense if he was always supposed to be good as villain it makes sense since we know Itachi will eventually go blind from using the mangekyo and the only way to fix that is to transplant someone else's basically he's grooming his future eye donor but as a good guy why would you ever encourage your little brother to gain power by killing his best friend and reinforce that through mental torture
Ehh i mean most likely a retcon itachis motivations for wiping out his clan pre shippuden was to get stronger, i mean the uchiha clan at that point was known by all and feared by all so it makes sense plus no matter how evil a character is they still always have love for someone which could be why he left sasuke alive in the moment and maybe he knew sasuke would be the only ninja who could match him
Let's not ignore the fact that, had Naruto not intervened in time, Sasuke would have gotten his body stolen by Orochimaru and Itachi would look like the biggest dumbass in the entire world for basically giftwrapping him for the guy. It's pretty obvious that Kishimoto's intentions for his character changed at some point, and he did a pretty good job of covering his tracks to make it seem like this was always his plan from the start.
I’m not sure about this one, the Sound 4 would have probably submitted to Sasuke like Orochimaru did. Orochimaru and Sasuke were one, it was like a symbiotic relationship. Sasuke got nerfed from losing Orchimaru.
@@granddefectus4602 Orochimaru's original plan wasn't actually to train Sasuke, just steal his body the moment he showed up. That's why he waited as long as he did and was reluctant to switch hosts, because it would mean he'd have to wait another 3 years before getting his chance. Naruto delayed him long enough to force Orochimaru to choose another body or die, which Itachi had absolutely nothing to do with.
I assume Itachi had some way of keeping tabs on Saskue, so it seems he should have known Saskue was curse marked and move against Orochi before he could claim Saskue. Or do something ovee those 3 yrs to keep Sasku3 from becoming a meat suit for snake man.
@@granddefectus4602 Yeah, well, except for the fact that Orochimaru's initial plan was to take Sasuke's body since Kimimaro's got that weird disease that all OP Naruto side characters of sorts seem to get xD.
The true retcon was Itachi always caring about Sasuke. You could argue that he choked Sasuke out in that hallway to keep up the pretense for Kisame, but re-traumatizing him was for who, exactly? Sasuke dropping everything to find Itachi was proof enough that he hadn’t gone soft. Hell, even genjutsu’ing him the first time was overkill. Itachi didn’t think Sasuke watching him murder his parents and finding the bodies of his relatives was enough of a reason for him to seek revenge?
Exactly. If not for Tsunade, Sasuke would never have woken from that Tsukiyomi coma. If we're meant to believe Itachi was good all along, he gambled on bad odds that Sasuke would ever recover.
But...but he was the "best and most caring brother" in the series. He can do no wrong. It was Danzo's fault that he nearly drove his beloved brother to insanity. It's fake news. He actually had calculated to far into the future and had known that it would all lead to Sasuke getting the rinnegan. Yes Itachi orchestrated the sage of six paths, true Kishimoto said it in an interview. I have no link to it but you can trust me. Itachi being a good guy/loving his brother and all that jazz was retcon end of story. It was a good retcon but a retcon nonetheless.
Itachi's reason for murdering his whole town was always incredibly vague, so I think Kishi wanted to do something with it later on, but I don't for a single moment believe Itachi was intended to be good.
Itachi whole existence was pretty vague at the time. Usually a person doesn't commit genocide without some reason, and we really never got that reason until shippuden. But I do think some of the stuff he did in his first appearance was a bit overkill for the dude we know as of today
It’s likely that he intended for Itachi to be a sympathetic villain who still cared about Sasuke, but Kishimoto made him sympathetic to the point of being a flawed hero instead of a sympathetic villain.
It could have been as simple as trying to trigger the mangekyou sharingan in Sasuke so he could steal Sasukes eyes and get the EMS Boost and not go blind
@@camth7862 They would probably have to change the anime continuity where Fugaku has a Mangekyo. I think the original idea was for Itachi to just want Sasuke’s eyes, but what Kishi ended up doing, turning Itachi into a flawed hero who was actually protecting the village, makes things way more interesting for Sasuke especially. Now instead of just getting revenge against his evil older brother, Sasuke has to grapple with his entire life motivations being a lie and the village actually betraying him.
@@camth7862 Yea I think I would have liked that better even. Real dark horror vibes, which the show kinda gave up on toward the end there. Used to be straight up creepy.
Short answer. Itachi was supposed to be a Villain. When they saw how popular the character got in Naruto, they needed to change it to a good guy for Shippuden.
@@donovan4222 no it was counter productive, he turned sasuke into a murder with PTSD and lead sasuke down the path he ended up at damn near wiping out the leaf and the potentially weakening the leaf by causing sasuke to turn against them, there were too many variables by torturing his own brother. It was a retcon, kishimoto himself said Itachi was meant to be a irredeemable villain at the start but changed it
Definately a retcon, no doubt. same with Hashirama and Tobirama scaling in shippuden. I think Kishimoto had a hard time justifying Itachi's motivations for his past behavior.
Yeah when I first heard his reason I was like "this dude is supposed to be like top tier intelligence with a dumb motivation?" He could've just challenged a very powerful Shinobi like one of the Sannin and not kill children to "test his abilities". Kishimoto is just a poor writer when it comes to character development. His best characters when it came to character development always got shoved into irrelevancy for exception of Sasuke who actually changed throughout the show.
@AK-su3tz it's either a retcon or the manga is written by someone who's less than 40 iq. Feel free to try to justify a good guy putting his brother under a genjutsu that only ONE person has the ability to remove and that one person had left the village a decade+ ago lmao.
@@AK-MS27 for example, Itachi's original voice acting had a more sadistic angle when Sasuke first had the flashback of Itachi telling him his hatred wasn't strong enough and even called his existence pathetic. Even when he first attacked the village, he didn't need to put Kakashi under Tsukuyomi. If he was actually a good guy and know this is an extreme form of torture, he'd have empathy for his fellow anbu colleague he spend years with. And when people say he didn't kill Kakashi, well of course not, he had two other Shinobi to worry about and also Guy came in. He also stated his objective wasn't to kill or cause a big commotion but to seize the Kyubi Jinjuriki, which he almost succeeded on if it wasn't for Jiraiya showing up. He knew the leaf's security measures were alerted. He used the Tsukuyomi a SECOND time on his kid brother and breaks his arm. If his sudden "is a good guy all along" doesn't sound like a retcon to you. I don't know what does. He said he was watching the akatsuki but he was doing their bidding in kidnapping and killing people? How come he never warned the other villages or the leaf Naruto was about to be kidnapped? Why try to kidnap Naruto if his job was to spy on the Akatsuki to warn the leaf? The show gives us the impression that he first shows up because the Hokage was dead, thus the village was more vulnerable and the Sannin are gone, so the people who might pose a threat aren't around in his mind.
Look the argument I believe is strongest for why Itachi is a retcon is that it's the only thing that explains Itachi's moment of sheer stupidity in executing his plan. Basically Itachi wanted Sasuke to kill him in order to avenge the Uchiha, thereby dying as the villain, and successfully concealing the truth about the coup. And he definitely didn't want Sasuke to turn into a terrorist or anything, as evidenced by the fact that, after Itachi was brought back to life, he was confused as to why Sasuke wanted to join the Akatsuki and destroy the Leaf. So if that was his goal, why would he think giving a six year old PTSD and telling him to dedicate his life to hatred is a good idea? Because he wanted Sasuke to get strong enough to kill him? Itachi literally let him win anyway. There's no reason he needed to do any of that. And if there was, then why was Itachi so surprised when the PTSD and hatred turned Sasuke into a terrorist? He basically did to Sasuke what Obito did to Nagato to turn him into Pain. Only instead I guess Sasuke become Hate? Either way, what did you expect to happen, my guy? This is bigger than your typical uh-oh-spaghetti-o kind of mistake, so it begs the question if there was more than some disconnect between itachi's intentions and executions
He knew photo was a threat and no one besides nagato or itachi even knew of his existence so he had to make a way for assume to get as strong as possible in the shortest time possible to deal with photo as he knew he was after Naruto and would eventually attack the hidden leaf and end up killing or recruiting sasuke anyway and itachi wanted to avoid those possibilities the most
Also he really wouldn’t have known about obitos kamui so he thought he could keep sasuke away from obito and satiate his hatred with his death while also massively powering up sasuke so I do agree it was his plan did have some flaws but for the most part it was understandable especially since most of it worked right up until obitos interference.
Itachi wasn’t a retcon, but his story wasn’t fully planned out either. Basically Kishimoto knew what direction he was going to take the character in part 2 and purposely left Itachi’s motivations and plan mysteriously unsolved in part 1 so he could finish the story later. I think he did a decent job with making Itachi’s motivations and plan make sense with part 1. Itachi wasn’t perfect, by the end of the series he recognizes that getting Sasuke to hate him was his biggest mistake. And Itachi didn’t just do that as part of his plan because it was smart, he was doing it in large part out of guilt for what he did and wanting Sasuke to punish him. As for Itachi letting him win, that isn’t as simple as you make it seem. Sasuke needed to get stronger to believably beat Itachi and be a hero of the leaf. Sasuke needed to believe he had beat Itachi, there needed to be a believable fight, both for Sasuke to believe it, and for Itachi to feel he was truly being punished for the Uchiha massacre.
Kishimoto had his idea for the manga, but the studio had its own idea, and Kishi followed suit. While watching the anime, I felt some conspiracy was going on, which would be revealed later in the story, that Itachi killed the entire clan to stop a coup. When this was first shown, I was not that surprised; what did surprise me was that they tried to recontextualize his actions as heroic rather than cold-hearted and calculated. The only reason he kept Sasuke alive was that despite being cold-hearted, he still loved Sasuke.
@@donovan4222 And what's heroic about killing your entire family and clan save for one person? No culture in history would commend this, it is beyond barbarism.
On the Akatsuki not resembling the Akatsuki we see in Shippudden. I’m pretty sure that Kishimoto’s original idea was to have every other Akatsuki member be an Oni of some sort. And the symbolism that Itachi was so bad that he belonged with a group of Oni which are basically monsters.
Sasuke cant cast genjutsu with a finger or of figured out how to stop kabutos control over edo tensei, or free himself from control of edo tensei. Hes also not as nice with the kunai as itachi still
Wdym better than him? In what? As characters? And honesty, Obito and Madara are straight up braindead, bad villains. Especially Obito, who is just a simp. At least Madara got tired of the shit that comes with humanity and wanted to put them all down into a dream where everyone is happy. That makes a little bit of sense at least. But Obito? Straight up poop. Itachi is a much better character than both of those, Shisui got killed too early, he basically has no character, Sasuke? Ehhh... maybe.
I think Kishi retconed him when he saw the popularity of Itachi and it would be obvious in hindsight on why he’s so popular. Edgy design, cool eyes, very strong. Yea people definitely wanted some sort of redemption
Ngl...itachi is an idiot at times 🤷🏻♂️... Sorry but ...if he wanted to be good, he would've got himself an eternal mangekyo, would've worked on his own to directly harm or distract the Akatsuki, would've been cool if itachi turned out to be the reason we'd have someone like the 2 Tails surviving Akatsuki at least until the war arc, maybe you could have him be the one to take out one of the Akatsuki on his own. The whole "fueling sasukes hatred to make him stronger" is dumb... Sasuke would've got 3 tomoe sharingan without itachi's help anyways, getting mangekyo and eternal mangekyo would probably require itachi dying anyways though...could make an "itachi rescue arc" where a good sasuke with the entire team seven would head out to rescue an itachi that got captured by Pain, but they fail and itachi gets killed in front of sasuke plunging him into the despair needed for the mangekyo... Then after pain is defeated, he recovers itachi's eyes to get the EM....
I think one thing no one brings up is Itachi telling Sasuke if he wanted tod efeat him, he needed eyes like his, and the only way to get eyes like his is to kill someone he loved. Itachi pratically setup up Sasuke's life for perpetual suffering cause keep in mind, if Sasuke did follow through on his advice, he'd would've effectively been a criminal and a wanted man as a result. And given that closest Sasuke has to a friend at the time was Naruto, who was a jinchuuriki. Sasuke could've lost his life if Naruto was so disillusioned with their "bond". And if Sasuke did kill naruto, it would've made him public enemy number 1 in the nation. Itachi is single-handedly responsible for why Sasuke is the way he is and why he's damn near almost died several times through-out the series because of how much emotional manipulation he's had to go through as a result of Itachi. So I never did like how the narrative was bending over backwards to kiss Itachi's butt after the fact.
I think killing naruto would vary in results depending on when sasuke kills him. The village hated and didn't care for naruto for all his early life. I dont think sasuke would have been hated that much aside from most of the main cast. Just not the whole village now if the event happened differently as in if pain attacked the village and naruto becomes the village hero happened BEFORE sasuke fights itachi and if sasuke kills him during that time then i can definitely see him becoming a huge criminal to everyone in the village
@@TheEmeraldTyrantSasuke wasn’t loved either, and killing a leaf shinobi as a leaf genin is an act of treason. So he would be executed aswell, or regarded as a criminal at least. Hiruzen would go crazy if the 4th hokage’s son he was supposed to take care of got killed…
If Itachi retcon is true (most likely is true) then that means that jiraiya was either planned to be way stronger than he is or Itachi and kisame were planned to be alot weaker than they are
Itachi is also sick. He had used his mangekyo sharingan jutsu against Kakashi and Sasuke. Maybe he would be too tired to fight Jiraiya. Also, if he’s a spy he could be lying to Kisame. There is a chance that Jiraiya and Orochimaru are stronger than Kisame and doesn’t know Itachi’s full strength.
I mean, no. Orochimaru was portrayed as being the strongest of the Sanin and Orochimaru plainly says Itachi is much stronger than him a few chapters before the Jiraiya incident. Itachi’s reactions to Jiraiya in contrast to Orochimaru’s plain admission of inferiority to Itachi is…. You guessed it! **Foreshadowing**.
@@Bloooo95 exactly. Itachi running from Jiraiya is further evidence that it wasn’t a retcon but the retcon people act like it’s evidence that kishimoto is a bad writer.
I really don't think "The Truth about Itachi" was ever planned from the beginning. It feels like Sasukes revenge arc reached it's natural conclusion and that Kishimoto didn't know what to do with Sasuske's character once he completed his revenge to keep Naruto and Sasuke not only apart but opposed to the other. One of my points of contention with the storyline also which I find hilarious whenever people wank Itachi in terms of power scaling is that I'm supposed to believe that Obito was fearful of Itachi's strength yet Itachi complied in murdering half of his clan not only for the village but because Madara was supposed to be that great of an external threat he would have to comply. If Itachi was truly so strong why did he not attempt to take Obito(Madara's) life sooner? When he was still healthy and not dying of some unknown illness.
I wish after sasuke killed itachi, he and team hebi just went to a mist village or rain, and lived like that, left the story, then rock lee would take over, sasuke was the best character in my opinion from part 1 up till his fight with itachi, after tobi tells sasuke the truth and itachis horrible retcon, sasuke drops severe quality
@@IIIISai I think the story would have been very interesting with Sasuke and hebi as a wandering antihero instead of making Naruto and Sasuke directly oppose eachother. The Akatsuki storyline could have been resolved in a different way too.
@@NotTheWheel yeah i feel like it would've been interesting if sasuke returned to the village way earlier like if naruto vs sasuke final battle occured way earlier let's say after pain fight for example and naruto won. I feel like having obito or madara as the final boss with naruto and sasuke working together will feel more interesting rather than having them just be these reincarnation of gods that's destined to fight one another
Shisui wrote the note. He tells Itachi when we gives him his eye, if he's truly his friend he won't try and stop him, and that he's already left a note and he leaves the rest to Itachi.
No. No he wasn't. Its very clear Kishimoto intended for Itachi to be Sasukes main villain. His rising popularity caused his editors to suggest him changing Itachi into someone more kind. Theres no way he was always a good guy and a spy. Itachi never gave Tsunade or anyone in power ANY DATA on the Akatsuki.
Itachi directly said that he's not perfect but people, I don't know, ignore this fact. It makes me furious. Itachi made it clear that he's not perfect, he's not a saint but fans like shut their eyes, ignore their idol and keep idolizing him too much
@@Bloooo95 They think Itachi did nothing wrong and its all 100% Danzo's fault. People deny the fact Itachi is a villain/antagonist in the story at all, even though he clearly is.
I'm actually annoyed at the other type of people, who proudly proclaim that Itachi isn't actually perfect as if its something they and no one else has realized or discovered, when it was literally addressed in the series. Even worse when they actually criticise the story for it lol.
@@panthekirb7561 The Uchiha Massacre was Danzo’s fault. Itachi didn’t create the circumstances to make it happen. Itachi did his part to try to prevent it but Danzo set the table to wipe out the clan whether Itachi chose to side with the village or the Uchiha. So, yes, it was Danzo and the village and the Uchiha and Obito that set all that into motion. Did Itachi make a choice? Sure. But it was just to save his brother. Itachi’s biggest mistake is his handling of Sasuke after the Massacre. If you think Itachi, a 12 year old, is the sole person with agency in the very nuanced intrapolitical conflict surrounding the Uchiha massacre, then you’re deluded. The circumstances surround the massacre are so much bigger than Itachi that’s it’s insane to pin it all on him. Did he need to torture Sasuke? Should he have hid the truth from Sasuke and not placed faith/trust in Sasuke’s own strength? Should he have pushed him to pursue hatred? Should he have pushed Sasuke to pursue vengeance out of Itachi’s own greed to want to be killed out of guilt? No. He could have handled Sasuke much better and he’s admitted to that. Most people agree. However, y’all hyper focus on a problem that can’t be blamed on Itachi. The massacre was so much bigger than him and Danzo already had the pieces together to make it happen regardless.
As far as Itachi using Tsukuyomi on Kakashi, I always thought that Itachi did it because Itachi knew Kakashi well due to their time in Anbu and also knew he was Sasuke's sensei. But utterly destroying Kakashi and putting him in a coma, it very easily showed Sasuke that even his own sensei gets bitched by Itachi meaning he's not powerful enough to give Sasuke the power he needs to kill Itachi. It's like Itachi was doubling down on ensuring Sasuke only have raging and pure hatred for Itachi and realized it was not just a desire to kill Itachi but a duty as Itachi could easily take his new family of Kakashi, Naruto & Sakura away from him as he did his original family in the Uchiha Clan. Now Sasuke wasn't just avenging the Uchiha clan, he was saving anyone else from Itachi's perceived sociopathicly inflated ego. So taking out Kakashi would only sharpen Sasuke's resolve so that there could be no doubt in Sasuke's mind that he had to kill Itachi. But in all honesty I did not get the feeling at any point of Naruto part 1 that Itachi was actually a good guy or protecting the leaf.
@@IIIISai It certainly felt like it. But I guess Shipuuden is 2020 Hindsight so it all makes sense why as powerful as he and Kisame were didn't engage Jiraiya or kill Kakashi which they combined could definitely do. Itachi alone actually.
The very first databook has a bit about Itachi where it says something along the lines of "what are this mysterious character's true motives?" or something like that, hinting that there's more to him than what you might originally guess. Not to mention when he used Tsukuyomi on Kakashi, Kakashi said to himself "why not just kill me? If he wanted to, he could.", another sign that Itachi was holding back or showing mercy. The only reason he put Kakashi out of commission was to prevent a large-scale fight from breaking out, he knew if he incapacitated the heaviest hitter the Leaf has outside of the Sannin, the other Jonin would prioritize Kakashi's safety and allow Itachi and Kisame a window to escape.
@@kaiseramadeus233 yes he did. To end the fight right then and there he had to take out their heaviest hitter, even Might Guy would know that prioritizing Kakashi's safety is more important than chasing after them. It was the only path for Itachi to escape without causing a big fight to break out.
@@Borchert97 In the novels, Itachi took out Izumi with a peaceful Tsukoyomi. She lived an entire life of happiness inside an illusion that ended up killing her. So yes, I stand by the fact that 72 hours of torture was unnecessary. Literally anything else could have happened and the results would have been the same
It was not only revealed later Sasuke had supressed the memory of itachi crying. It was mentioned all the way back in chapter 7. Sasuke says to Sakura "There's a man that only I can kill" and she responds with "...Ah... Who do you mean?" and he says "That time... Crying..." and she says "Crying...?" then sasuke says "My..." and she says "What... What do you mean?" then he goes on to say "I'm an avenger. I have to become stronger than him. So I can't jus stay here and do nothing." Later on we also see the shot of Itachi with his headband sideways, except it's not as clear so we don't see the crying. This shot is never shown again, until it's revealed that Itachi was crying in it later on (and Sasuke then confirms he was repressing the memory). This was very clearly thought out from the beginning. Also Itachi could have literally just killed Kakashi with the Tsukiyomi if he wanted to. If he really was evil, there would be no reason for him to hold back. He obviously had to do some bad things to keep up the act. Just seriously harming him instead of killing seems like the perfect way to do that.
if it was really thought out from the the beginning, and Kishimato really did intend for Itachi to be a "good guy" from the very beginning, then Kishimato is a genocide denying piece of shit, and the fanbase is so incredibly morally corrupt or just dumb. He was crying while committing genocide? wow, that changes everything. hes basically a saint for that.
the crying could be a reference to how s a s u k e was crying during it, and also it might not have been thought out that itachi c a n kill people with tsukuyomi yet.
for real, people forget that the akatsuki KILLS anyone who betrays them, itachi did not want to look suspicious to kisame and that's why he attacks kurenai and asuma, he could've killed kakashi with the tsukuyomi if he really wanted to and even kakashi questions it himself why he hadn't killed him yet all the bad things he's done are all to not look suspicious to kisame and trying his best to not kill anyone from the leaf, imagine yourself being itachi's partner in the akatsuki and everytime you two have to fight anyone from his village he chose to flee instead or hesitated to fight everytime, it wouldn't look convincing for kisame and even more obvious to the audience that something else is going on with him, i think the ''evil'' actions that he chose on part 1 aren't the best but they do cover his identity to kisame pretty well in my opinion
@@fakeblast well on other hand if kisame gonna go wild, most of his strong water jutsu are really massive(cover huge area) so once akatsuki duo start serious fight, they would instantly give themselves away. And it would be a huge problem in their naruto hunting
@@n.6847 A genocide that he was forced to commit (if he didn't someone else would have, except Sasuke would have also been killed) so that another world war wouldn't start.
Also, remember in the flashback to Itachi beating the police and ranting to his father about how fed up he is, it was *Sasuke* calling out to Itachi that made him snap back to his senses and apologize for the trouble. I think it's safe to say he always loved his little brother. Even if he showed it in ways that make me want to absolutely throttle him.
I think that in the Tsunade Arc, Kishimoto had a loose idea of his character and had a few different directions he was thinking of going with but after seeing how popular Itachi was, he decided to put him into the "Tragic Hero" path. From the Sasuke Retrieval Arc onwards, his character is pretty consistent
It was weird how after Sasuke found out the truth he started to idolize itachi and the other characters started talking about itachi like he was some misunderstood hero,I think kishi knew how popular itachi was so he had to retcon how the characters perceived him when he was generally disliked by Sasuke and the others as a traitor to the leaf but when his truth is revealed his actions are suddenly seen as heroic.The only character who still hated itachi and Uchiha was Tobirama.
@@justinarzola4584 It's so weird that a teenager Sasuke was like "Yes my dear brother, who killed everyone I loved, thank you for making me an orphan and making my life complete hell". "You see Sasuke, killing all of those Uchiha babies and mothers was the right to do"
Itachi went from a great villain to the worst double agent in history. He didn’t share any info about the akatsuki 😂 he loves Sasuke so much that he’d torture Sasuke into a coma and let him live with Orochimaru the creep who experiments on people
To be blunt- Kishimoto has, basically never planned very far ahead in Naruto and it shows A LOT with hindsight. I can't recall the specifics, but Sasuke was originally supposed to die and stay dead in the land of waves arc against Haku, and it was simply Kishimoto's own love of the character that made him keep him alive. This also tracks with pilot issues of the original Naruto manga that were sort of meant to test the concept out- Kishimoto has...basically never had time to plan ANYTHING, or never attempted to and it shows with Itachi, Madara, Kaguya, Black Zetsu, the Ten Tails, everything with the Sage of Six Paths, Sasuke, and Kurama. The one thing that Kishimoto was great at was winging it, and you can even tell that he's winging it because there are dramatic tonal shifts in the series that...frankly just don't mesh very well together. Like how the Chuunin Exams feels somewhat similar to the land of waves arc up until the final third of it, then the show takes on a nearly entirely different tone and feel, Shippuden feels nothing like pre-time skip, and by the time we get to the war arc, it sort of feels like DBZ with extra steps with Kishimoto making statements at the time like how he has no idea how to deal with Madara in the story- I have mixed feelings on how a lot of things in Naruto were handled in hindsight, I love the series for what it is- But Kishimoto has NEVER stated that he had everything figured out from the start, if anything it was the opposite and he seemingly made a lot of last minute decisions on a weekly basis, if not for every part of the story, then at least for some of them- I do think that he had very strong ideas, but didn't really have them at the same time or commit to them for very long from a writing standpoint. He sort of had this approach of "adding more" when he hit a key point, rather than fleshing something that already exists out. Like how we go from learning about chakra control, ninjutsu, taijutsu and genjutsu, to summoning jutsu in just a few arcs, and past a certain point, chakra control, genjutsu, and summonings rarely ever play a key part in the story, and most characters only ever know a handful of jutsu that is unique to them and rarely ever learn anything from each other unless it's passed down from teacher to student. Beyond learning the rasengan, Naruto's real biggest training arc doesn't even happen until he learns wind release to make the rasenshuriken all the way in Shippuden, then he supposedly causes permanent damage in his arm because it's imperfect, and that supposed injury never plays any role in the story again except for him learning the perfected version of rasenshuriken...which required sage mode to be used at distance...but then...there are times in the war where he just...uses it without sage mode or tailed beast chakra anyways if I remember right?- I don't know, it's weird, Kishimoto covers his tracks on a lot of things, but there's always suspicious looking dirt everywhere afterwards if you look back at all of it-
Hes not a good guy at all, he killed his family and clan members. The reason doesnt matter to me, justifying murder is stupid. Also to this day i think one of the most horrible writing decision by Kishimoto was expending on the itachi flashback that his parents "proud of him when he kills them". Surely its fine to have ideals but seems too unrealistic to think that those Uchiha would rather die than just changing there mindset and survive.
dumbass uchiha's are evil we already know that they are very egotistical see madara as an example, they already make a peaceful village but madara ruined it bcuz he can't accept the fact that people didn't vote him to be hokage it's understandable since madara at their first war he still keeps insisting about hashirama's plan
When you look at his backstory, he has gone thru major impacts that kid should not be experiencing. His mind was too advanced which made him think of the meaning of life and death at like the age of 5. To then be under pressure from his clan and village wanting to kill each other basically. We have to look at his experiences at his age, as he gets older he learns more to accept that he could have done things differently.
@@angelrose1597 that literally does not justify killing men women and children in mass numbers. Stop it dude. Horrible people can be complex. It’s not that hard. Itachi is a bad person. That’s it.
I remember reading somewhere that initially, Sasuke didn't exist in the original draft for Naruto, so in that draft, Itachi probably could have been played straight as a talented genius dude who murdered his family for more singular power, setting him up to be one more foil for Naruto to beat up and prove a failure because friendship is based and all that.
don't believe that shitt💀 naruto has so many misconceptions about it this itachi is actually a goodguy was just inconsistent writing it's not a retcon the idea of itachi making sasuke like that to make him hate itachi more so he doesn't suspect the leaf but kishi forgot about orochimaru taking sasuke's body
I don't think Itachi was ever a good guy. He did what benefitted the Leaf, but none of what Itachi actually did was morally good. Raising your sword against your own flesh and blood for strangers who don't like you, your family, your clan, or your brother is pretty evil in and of itself.
Let me remind y'all that Itachi was the guy who believed killing his entire clan was an acceptable course of action. Genjutsu on a woman to make her hit on Jirayia is a tame action in comparison.
There’s other hints from Part 1 you didn’t touch on. For instance, there’s the comment Asuma made in Kakashi’s room that it made no sense that Itachi hadn’t already captured Naruto since he knows Naruto’s face and the village and is as powerful as he is. That question from Asuma isn’t answered. It’s left open to get the audience thinking. If Orochimaru, the man who almost destroyed the village a day ago, is saying, “Yep, Itachi is much stronger than me.” Then, yeah, why hasn’t Itachi already captured Naruto if that’s his sole goal? Well… you find out why in Part 2. I don’t think Kishimoto had all the details worked out (especially with Danzo, the coup, etc.). He actually has said he didn’t know all the details. But he has said that he knew Itachi had complicated reasons for doing what he did that abdicated him somewhat. Given Kishi’s penchant for having sympathetic villains, I think it’s a bit odd to think that’s an unrealistic thing for Kishimoto to minimally plan about Itachi before his appearance. To me, saying it was a full out retcon is a bit… harsh. It’s easy to see that Itachi having reasons to do what he did was planned from the start, enough for Kishi to drop several hints (Kisame’s statement, Kakashi being shocked Itachi didn’t kill him, Asuma’s statement, Itachi saying he didn’t want to fight or kill Asuma and Kurenai, Orochimaru saying Itachi is much stronger than him and then Itachi agreeing that a Sannin might be too much for him, etc.).
“Evil” Itachi wanted Naruto alive so that Sasuke could kill him and awaken MS. It almost worked too. Not sure if EMS was thought up at the time, but it was clear that Itachi’s eyes were getting worn down and that you can take other people’s Sharingan.
Honestly his first appearance could be explained as him having a bad day and taking out his anger on everyone else. Dude wasn't even an adult at the time wouldn't be too shocking
@@JakoWako I loved that narrative, but, to be honest, i dont think its an asspull that itachi wasnt just mindlessly slaughtering his clan. He knows the secrets of the sharingan, and wanted sasuke to develop his. This is the gray area now, because this is where it can be that he wants the eternal mangekyo because his are failing, but if thats the case, why not just implant shisuis eyes? Or "madara"? Since "madara" knew itachi can kill him with no problem. I think he needed/wanted sasuke to awaken the mangekyo so he can be strong. The entire arc of itachi and kisame showing up in the village is one of my favorites, because he just strolls in and everyone shits their pants and he doesnt kill anyone, traumatizes the shit out of kakashi, and strolls right out when jiraiya shows up. I dont think kishimoto had him as evil, and i dont think it was a retcon to make him "a hero". I think kishi probably didnt know what ultimately caused itachi to slaughter his clan, but i do believe he had it planned that there was a greater purpose to the mindless slaughter, and one that might turn everything on its heads.
so when Kisame was afraid to engage in battle with Jiraiya and was sure that they both were gonna end up defeated, then why did Itachi persuade and forced him to keep on their mission by saying "even the strongest person has a weak point" if you gonna respond that Kisame would get suspicious, not only in that part but for the entire time Kisame has never ever been suspicious of Itachi even a bit and to say that he would get suspicious simply because of Itachi literally agreeing with him is just ridiculous. Also capturing Naruto and sealing tailed beast away as a result of Naruto'a death would cause for Sasuke to awaken MS and even if he was for Konoha, also by capturing Naruto Akatsuki would move their eyes and hands away from Konoha and it would be saved from later invasion and destruction from Pain. Capturing Naruto would be even more safe for Konoha than keeping him in their hands whilst capturing all of the tailed beasts around the world.
@@კრიტიკოსი-შ4ჯ Reread it. Kisame said, “I don’t think I can take him, even though I’m sure you can.” Kisame never wanted to back down and was confident Itachi could take on Jiraiya. Itachi had to give Kisame the impression that Jiraiya might be too much for him as well. After they retreat, Kisame berates Itachi for having to retreat and doubles down that he could have handled Jiraiya. So, my response is to read the manga more carefully.
It absolutely was a retcon. I don't believe that Itachi would torture his brother for days if he loved him. He just wouldn't. His retconned justification for it is weak. His original justification, that he wants Sasuke to grow up with hate in his heart so as to become strong, test Itachi's capacity and (later) to steal Sasuke's eyes, is convincing.
bro what??? theres so many plotholes in naruto if you truly think about it... i'm not gonna list em all off but like stuff like shikaku seeing gamabunta transform into the 9-tails and him basically not reacting to him having to fight his brother. stuff like hirozen vs orochimaru where he was terrified of the 4th hokage being summoned with edo - tensei, only for it later to be written that souls in the reaper death seal cannot be reanimated, making it really weird that hirozen was so worried about the 3rd coffin, considering it a) wouldnt have worked, and b) it had to have been someone other than minato stuff like the akatsuki searching hard for deidara's ring, even though its completely irrelevant and the rings served no purpose
@@Bloooo95 thats only if you accept that reading though. To my mind, the more natural interpretation is: itachi is looking down at the hidden leaf and is angry that HIS birth place is so pathetic.
@@DiddntFindANameLol I'm referring to Kisame joking about Itachi being nostalgic about his former home and betraying him. Kisame is also super loyal to the akatsuki, the opposite of Itachi. Which is like all the akatsuki pairings, who are opposites in some way.
I actually like this video a lot & for some extra evidence around the "Itachi's Timeline Dilemma" part of the video the 2nd databook also confirms Itachi was 13 years old when he ascended to anbu captain.
I’m not a boy, ima man.
I think one possibility is itachi tsukuyomi'd orichumaru or whoever the hidden akataski member is and made him experience time different and he actually experienced 7 years in the time people experienced 4 or whatever. It would be interesting if he actively messed with people's perspectives/experience of time more often for plot reasons since he's fully capable of it.
It's all absolute pure head cannon obviously.
They both killed the clan I think Tobi took the role of killing the kids and children women
So the timeline of him joining the Akatsuki at 10, and being an Anbu Captain at 13, doesn't present issues to my perspective if you draw the conclusion he is simply in both factions, nor does the idea "He only becomes an Akatsuki member after leaving present issue." Could it not be argued that he only becomes a member after deserting, thus making him a full-fledged member, and it would only become public knowledge after the fact. And why his actions weren't questioned by other members is because of Obito's interference.
Sixxxxxxx my boy
Itachi was written to be a bad guy but kishimoto changed his mind. He even went as far to change his design to give him less of a antagonistic look.
There’s a scene in the forest of death where it shows itachis face for the first time and watching it now is like who is that lmao.
If Itachi was a bad guy, he and Kisame would have stomped Konoha. Kurenai, Asuna, Kakashi, and Gai would be dead. Sasuke would have been dead in the Uchiha Massacre unless he wanted eternal magekyou which he would have set up by genjutsu-ing Sasuke to make a best friend and having him kill them. Jiraiya would have been in a 1vs2 situation and probably die. Naruto would have been taken by them and have Kurama extracted.
@@johnlucas2838 That's not true. Just because he didn't body everyone doesn't mean he wasn't any less written to be a bad guy in the beginning. Itachi was working for the Akatsuki and doing covert operations. He wouldn't just kill everyone just because he can. The Akatsuki aren't supposed to be well known and going on a killing spree would just draw attention. That's why Itachi told Kisame not to fight Guy, because it would draw too much attention
@@avaliausd.Exactly
@@johnlucas2838if Orochimaru was really such a bad guy he would have killed every single Genin in the forest. But he didn't so I guess with your logic he's actually a really nice guy!
Konoha Village: "Itachi was the hero of the leaf all along"
Kakashi: "He violently tortured me for 3 straight days, so brutally that it put me into a freaking coma. Just because he felt like it"
Kakashi has done countless evil shit as an ANBU. 😵💫 Also, the village never said Itachi was a hero. The most damage control for Itachi’s name that was done was simply wiping his name out of history books as the one that killed the clan. The books just say a tragedy occurred. This was shown when Sarada tried to learn about her clan’s history and found no information about the Massacre.
@@Bloooo95 I can imagine one of Sarada's descendants finding the truth about the massacre and reviving the "curse of hatred".
@@Bloooo95 what „evi shit“ has the guy actually done? Tell me, because the most evil thing he could’ve done was kill someone’s from a neighbour village, last time I checked that’s what ninja do.
Itachi held back, even Kakashi noticed it, 3 days in that world, less then a moment, in this one, why not kill me? If he wanted to, he would've.. what Kakashi is saying is.. he knows Itachi held back, but at that time, he doesn't know why, I think by the time they next meet in Shippuden, Kakashi suspects that there is more to Itachi then what was "said" about him, since he didn't go all out on Itachi, despite knowing how dangerous Itachi was
@@samuelhaverghast2442 Even so Itachi could have never predicted Kakshi would be arisen from his coma by Tsunade. For all Itachi knew he spared Kakashi's life but he would forever after remain in a coma; weakening Konoha.
For that matter, Itachi always went too far when traumatizing people. If Sasuke was like 99% of people he would have just been traumatized by the massacre, had his spirit broken, and given up on being a shinobi.
Some people say that he motivated sasuke to get him stronger by torturing him but is it really worth it? Trauma in exchange for power. Also he told him to kill his best friend for temporary power mangekeyo sharingan. Also he helped Akatsuki in evil stuff and then all of a sudden he was a spy
The simplest and most likely answer is that kishimoto had already planned this from the jump, but didn’t have all the details ironed out.
I’ve always believed it was a retcon was just done well because of how vague it was before
Obito> Pain> Itachi doesnt matter If is healthy or Sick ( plus Itachi healthy we Never seen him anyways he doesnt exist in the Verse)
Itachi CANT Win against The leaders
Oh Yeah i agreed
Itachi is the 3° strongest for sure. I don't know How people think Itachi would beat Them That's some Itachis girls bulshit.
He definitely doesnt have stamina and chackra to beat ALL The pains in a fight And to beat Orange mask he would have to beat kamui and izanagi which i don't think he would be able to
That's about It
Itachi shits on Pain especially if healthy. Edo Itachi blitzed Nagato who is stronger than Pain. Wtf are you on about
@@AyeeShaad stop doing DRUGS
Go take your meds RIGHT
Izanami. GG ez clap for Itachi. Not even a contest.
No itachi > pain > obito OM
He tortured the shit out of kakashi, like excessively
Omg glad someone said it. Kind of feels like Kishimoto flipped a bit too much heading into Shippuden. It was all a bit _too_ convenient.
Dude Danzo wrote the Suicide note that was left. And when the clan brought it to itachi as if he did it, that set him off. That’s how I saw it
Itachi was supposed to be like illumi or raditz but the writer saw lolouch from code geass and said that's better ..
I would go as far to say that Itachi's true nature was subtly foreshadowed ever since Part 1. Around Chapter 7, Sasuke says he remembers Itachi crying at the night of the massacre, which is telling. Sasuke remembers seeing Itachi crying, but he just doesn't understand why and seems to be subliminally suppressing the memory. There's also an instance in Chapter 140 where Itachi leaves a plate of dango behind for Sasuke, as Itachi and Kisame were both sitting there just beforehand. There's also Itachi's specific words towards Sasuke:
"If you want to kill me, settle for hating me! Hate me and live like the coward you are! Cling to life without honor!"
If I recall correctly, this is in reference to a popular piece of Japanese media that actually did tip off the Japan fanbase about Itachi's true nature. Furthermore, one should recall Itachi's initial design and how it featured his arm slung through the front of his cloak, which can also be taken a clear reference to a ronin; an honorable samurai that lacks a master.
People criticize Itachi's handling of Sasuke, but isn't that the literal point? His handling of Sasuke was completely atrocious, with both Naruto and Sasuke calling him out on it; Itachi even admits this himself. That's why he asks Naruto to save Sasuke, because if anyone could it would be him. Itachi is a good shinobi that was able to put his loyalty to the village and his mission above everyone else (Sasuke being the sole exception), but emotionally he's a total dumbass and he admits to both himself and Sasuke that he royally fucked up.
Also Kishimoto straight up said in an interview he always had a reason for Itachi's part in the Uchiha massacre as more than it seemed, even if he had yet to decide what that that reason specifically was.
wow that plate of dango... didn't even catch that.
I'm pretty sure that Sasuke referred to himself with the "crying" part.
He didn't say Itachi was the one crying.
Sasuke never said he remembered Itachi crying, he said he himself was crying, lol.
@@shinji136 Wrong on both counts, in the original Japanese manga Sasuke's exact words were "あの時... 泣いてた" which translates to "That time... Was crying." The Japanese text was ambiguous as to who was crying, but some early English translations assumed it was Sasuke and said it was him. This is a classic example of fine details sometimes getting lost in translation.
@@Intrepid_Explorer This might have been correct if Sasuke didn't literally remember things as him passing out before Itachi cried (seen in the part 1 Naruto vs Sasuke battle) and then said to Tobi that it was a suppressed memory that only resurfaced days after Itachi's death.
8:17 I kind of really dig this original idea of Itachi being the Human Monster amongst other actual Monsters. That could have had some genuinely interesting story avenues to explore.
In Part I Itachi is 18-19 years old, assuming he slaughtered his clan, joined the Akatsuki, and became a captain all at age 12, then the 7 years makes perfect sense
Itachi was 12 when he became a anbu captain and massacred the Uchiha. I figured this out before the novel was released because of him and Sasuke's ages. They rectified the inconsistencies with the novel and said Danzo and Hiruzen raised his official age to 13 when he turned 12 which is why Kakashi thought he was 13 when he became anbu captain.
Itachi is truly PATHETIC and it honestly baffles me how many fans don't see that. He was also a supreme COWARD and a Rat who's in competition with "Rat haired Shanks 🐀".
Now I do like itachi regardless but this is due to his design, abilities, voice, and swag but his story Is grade A+ in awful.
Now I won't talk about all this trash without backing it up, but it's going to be a bit long so buckle up and remove your sharingan tinted glasses.
The oppressed Uchiha 🚶
Before we begin on itachi specifically we need to talk about the Uchihas as a whole.
The Uchiha were one of the duo founders of the leaf along with the senju and this came from a desire for peace after years of battle.
But the Uchihas were always looked down on...
They were given the police force because they were good at it but it was also to keep a close eye on the Uchihas.
After the nine tails attack the leaf then turned around THE NEXT DAY and blamed them for the attack then without explanation RIPPED them from their homes and moved them to the edges of the village.
This OBVIOUSLY infuriated the Uchihas because they felt betrayed and were being oppressed by the leaf.
Many people always look at itachi and his mental issues when killing his family but never really analyze WHY the coup happened in the first place.
Let's talk itachi 🧐=🤡
He was a great Shinobi and a very book smart character equal to that of the hokage ( tho he doesn't have the wisdom of a hokage)
But itachi was very mentally troubled and honestly if "Better Help" existed in the Naruto verse he'd be the number 1 subscriber.
Itachi was introduced to death and killed his first man at around 5-6 years old....( I blame fugaku for him being there)
Itachi also over thinks literally everything while he is 5 years old, questioning what a village is and what the Uchihas think etc.
He even at FIVE YEARS OLD tried to off himself.....what five year old do you know of is trying to off himself?????????? Bro has issues and BAD ones, needles to say his mental health wasn't all there.
He later joins the anbu and this made fugaku ecstatic BECAUSE he could finally get some answers on why there in the situation that there in.... because the leaf told them NOTHING.
So guess what itachi dose to quell the anxiousness of his clan....he tells them absolutely nothing 😮.
-He doesn't tell his family that an investigation is on going and that after everything will be ok.
- he didn't tell them to bear with the situation a little longer and everything will be ok.
NOTHING!
but guess what Ratachi did do...he IMMEDIATELY snitched to the leaf of his family's potential rebellion from oppression. 🐀
Then itachi became fearful of a war that WASN'T HAPPENING, a "A WHAT IF WAR" ( his young mind was overthinking again).
And he decided to listen to DANZO instead of asking and receiving guidance from the hokage and decided to kill his family because they would cause trouble for the leaf if they rebelled.
He went to Obito and begged Obito to just kill his family but leave the leaf alone then partnered with him to execute the massacre. And slaughtered his entire clan that night except Sasuke.
Afterwards loving brother itachi made Sasuke watch him kill his mom and dad as well as everyone else for TWENTY FOUR HOURS (TWICE). THEN told him to kill his friend to gain some power.
Allat so Sasuke can come back and kill itachi like some Suicide on Lay-a-way.
Nevermind poor Sasuke and his mental anguish this caused.
B-But he had no choice 🤡🧢
Itachi had SEVERAL choices he could have done.
1.) He could have equally sided with his family and told them that everything would be ok and told them what's ACTUALLY going on instead of leaving the poor Uchihas to speculate.
2.) Use the kotoamatsukami on either fugaku, or the hokage to receive better treatment.
3.) If he had to kill someone why not all the combatants? He could have killed the fighters and WOUNDED fugaku ( he was honestly a good man) this would have left Sasuke with family and he could have dipped, then he later could tell Sasuke he did that so that all the Uchihas wouldn't die vs the leaf...
4.) Instead of erasing his whole family for the leaf what if he sided with his oppressed family and DEMANDED better treatment
5.) If this was all about Sasuke he could have taken him and dipped the let what happens happen.
Etc.
And get this....he already stopped the coup in about 1 hour of the massacre 👀🤯. He killed the combatants and fugaku was standing down.....SO WHY DID HE NEED TO KILL HIS MOM, or grandma, grandpa, BABIES, his girlfriend etc.????
It's like if you break into a country and kill the prez then proceed to kill all the civilians and elderly..FOR WHAT???
and afterwards he dipped, put on nail polish and jointed the Akatsuki 💅 and was actively helping the organization with their plans. He was actively trying to kidnap Naruto which would have endangered not only the leaf but the whole world. Not ONCE did you see Ratachi snitch on the Akatsuki or actively sabotage or go against any of their plans.
Naruto fans: "B-But he was a spy and relayed info on the Akatsuki to the leaf".🤡
No he wasn't. Tell me why the leaf knew NOTHING about the Akatsuki AT ALL. nor what their actual plan was until they had to figure it out.
Itachi was a lunatic and it's silly that people don't see that and only go by story narrative.
Kishimoto wanted to retcon itachi due to mass popularity, so he made a story on why he did what he did but it was terrible.
His parents on their death bed were praising itachi was the cringest thing I ever heard in all of anime.
Like why are you praising itachi for killing his entire family due to them wanting to stop being oppressed? And fugaku should be like why are you attacking your mother??? She's not a fighter. Like imagine being on your hands and knees with your wife as YOUR SON is getting ready to decapitate you both all because of a "what if hypothetical war" and the fact that you DARE buck back against the leaf....then you praise him " your such a kind boy" 💀💀💀. Bruh the story is trash.
And if it WASN'T a retcon like most fans say then that just proves kishimoto must have been high that day.
I'll stop here because itachi is a fan favorite and he would be defended to the death with made up senarios and wacky explanations but he was terrible.
10/10 design and powers
-69/10 in story.
Facts
@@NoNoDontTouchMeThere you my friend are #2 of millions of fans world wide who's not delusional on the topic lol.
I read this whole thing because I agree so much poor writing but he was way to eager to slaughter his clan
its great to see the gang get back to the grind after the seth bs, good job homie!
I just never felt like his only option was to kill all the Uchiha. If he could do that single handedly why not tell the hokage and trust him to handle it with the support of all Konoha? Why not just key Uchiha leaders? I can think of more options than this that seem better than the genocide he committed. For plot sake I just accepted he had no options, but I really, really was bothered by this.
Same, what bothers me the most is people defending it like the only option
Here is my take on it.
Was it the only option? No, but the problem was most other options had problems with them.
For instance going to the Hokage would have taken time. Time he may not have had with not only Donzo pushing for the death of the Uchiha's, but also the clan starting the coup. If the Hokage took to long to act one of those things could have happened.
Killing the key leaders of the Uchiha clan? Now this could possibly work, but it also could ignite the other Uchiha into doing the coup anyway.
However even if the other Uchiha wouldn't have decided to get vengeance for their leaders Donzo probably would have killed them anyway.
Remember there had been a perfect option to end all of this peacefully in Itachi's friend(forgetting his name) who was going to use his insanely OK sharigan Genjutsu to basically force the Uchiha to no longer start a coup. Yet Donzo stopped that from happening.
Unless I am misremembering something.
@@chaossnowkitsune6377 Thanks for sharing such a rich and well thought out take on it!
The way the story was written, there really was no other options. It was an impossible situation and he chose the lesser of 2 evils.
@@donovan4222 I feel like the story *says* there were no other options, but doesn’t really show that there were no other options. For instance, if Itachi spared kids and babies the story doesn’t explain why that would be an immediate threat. For the sake of enjoying the intentions of the show, I mainly suspend disbelief and accept the “no other option premise.”
Itachi was definitely retconned, telling Sasuke to grow up full of hatred and kill his best friend makes no sense if you want to keep him safe, if he were to have killed his best friend he’d have become a criminal lol
Not just that, gaslighting your brother into being a murder is just evil on its own
No, and itachi never claimed to be good. In fact he flat out admits to screwing up everything as an edo tensei. Stop simping for this man. Itachi's a badass character, but he's not even close being a hero. If itachi's a hero, than Eren Yeager is the biggest hero in anime.
I refuse to believe Kishimoto started out with the intention to make Itachi Good All Along. Why?
Because his plan for Sasuke relied purely on chance. How?
When they had their "rematch" at the inn and Itachi brutally beat Sasuke, he used Tsukiyomi on Sasuke again. It was so bad this put Sasuke into a coma.
One that ONLY Tsunade could help Sasuke to recover from. Itachi had no guaranteee Tsunade would return to the village to heal Sasuke. It took Naruto beating Kabuto and saving Tsunade to convince her. That and learning the Rasengan.
It leaves too much room for Itachi's plan to fail, relying on an AWOL Sannin to come back of her own free will, and actually heal Sasuke enough he comes out of the Tsukiyomi-induced coma.
couldn't have said it better lol
@@Crunchysopa52 Exactly. Itachi may have Kage-level intellect, but he can't see the future.
Or read the script. Itachi stans give the Good All Along justification too much credit.
Also consider that Itachi planned to use the crow to brainwash Sasuke to go back to the Leaf Village. But Naruto intercepted it by mistake.
I think you missed an important detail in the video and apparently also in the comments no one mentioned it.
At the very beginning of Naruto in chapter 7, Sasuke stated "that time... crying..." or at least this is the english translation that seems to imply Sasuke was crying. But a better translation for this sentence is "that time... was crying...". Indeed if we look at the Japanese Kanji ( あの時... 泣いてた ) used in this sentece in chapter 7 we can notice that it is the same used in chapter 403 when Sasuke, after the truth about Itachi was told by Obito, remembers how Itachi was crying the night of the massacre.
So to all people in the comments absolutely sure that Itachi's story was a retcon I would ask: why Kishimoto showed us this detail very early in Naruto? Why would he tell us that a murder like Itachi cried that night?
I believe Kishi left the story open-ended both ways, that's why you see Kakashi question why Itachi didn't kill him and why you also see him humilate Sasuke to draw out his darkness further. Also, the end panel of Naruto you can clearly see Pain,Sasori,Deidara,Kisame,Itachi,Zetsu at the very least.
I'm glad y'all are over that whole Seth drama and back to uploading regular content, I was getting sick of it
I appreciate this analysis. It reminded me of the plot holes I overlooked because I was a fanboy. It presents the facts now that I'm older and have refined taste. I'm not embarrassed that I loved such a mid show. I get to enjoy it again as I care less about what others think of my taste. It's joyful.
I think you can explain the kakashi thing as part of his act
Even if the worst happened with Sasuke in that Orochimaru took over his body, Itachi has the totsuka blade to get rid of Orochimaru and free Sasuke, and its very likely that Orochimaru would be going after Itachi once he took Sasuke's body in order to gain the EMS which Itachi also knew and was counting on.
manga creators should stop beeing afraid to say that a character is 26, 30, 40 year old.
Not everyone must be 12 and 18 yo only
He says at one point in the early part 1 flashback that he’d “always be there for sasuke even as an obstacle to overcome” that was clear as day planning Itachis true intention with sasuke. So I don’t think you can call this a plothole. It’s probably the most well thought out thing in the series
at 15:30 the other explanation would be that Danzo wrote the note, he had Shisui Uchiha's Sharingan so he could do the writing.
pain in there at the end with the akatsuki
The first seen of itachi came immediately after the 3rd hokage died it was more about reminding the village that he can still do something if they touch Sasuke, cause a lot of people were after Sasukes eyes. You just overthinking the first part, he had to give them a slapping so they remember how powerful he is, cause it seemed like they forgot to the point kurnia would try to attack him using genjutsu
What if Minato and Fugaku were brothers?
What if HQ found Sage Kabuto in the 4th war?
What if Itachi gained Rinnegan?
What if Sakumo & Jiraiya fought in the 4th war?
Shisui says he left a note before he jumps off the cliff, and in part 1 that tear scene is mentioned by sasuke during the bell test, it's a pretty quick like to sakura.
Itachi killed his family for the Village. Imagine that. By serving your country, your morally bankrupt actions would magically be justified because you wiped the blood on your hand by serving your country.
Is Konoha good? If not, then Itachi isn't good for siding with it by serving it. Imagine your country, your home, blaming you for something you didn't do and relocated your entire family to the outskirts of the town-that's called Population movement, it's a War crime because it would lead to genocide-isolating you from your allies, being put under constant surveillance, stripping you of your rights as a founding clan, dehumanizing you, oppressed your family, then ultimately being put down like animals in their cages.
Itachi sided with that Village even though he saw that his family was being oppressed, shoved into the corner so that their cries and grievances wouldn't be heard. No wonder the Uchiha's were planning a coup de'tat, if you want your children to have a future, then you better fight back against oppression.
Itachi was supposed to be a pacifist but his solution for civil unrest was genocide. He could have done what Gandhi did when he fought the cast system if he didn't want a civil war to happen. Or he could have just left the Village with Sasuke in tow, at least then he wouldn't have blood on his hands.
I thought he was supposed to be a genius.
It’s not a retcon. Kishimoto already had the twist of Itachi being a Double agent from the Jump. Do your research guys.
you gonna provide a source? some reasoning? what's the evidence he had him being a double agent from the jump?
looking at the old akstsuki silhouette is so interesting now
Itachi doesn't kill Kakashi or Sasuke because he's always been on the side of his plan
Crispin Freeman has stated he knew from the very beginning that Itachi loved Sasuke
Make of that what you will
The goat voice actor
I can believe it
Nice job, cool vid. 👍
Itachi’s motives are pretty clear he was a true double agent he used his genjutsu on both kakashi and sasuke to show them both how advanced his shargingon was and this drove them to get stronger with him going to get Naruto at the hotel he knew jiraya would catch up to them and save Naruto he wouldn’t break his cover unless absolutely necessary if he did this to early then he couldn’t die by saskue itachi and danzo are a similar kind of character both using evil motives but there pure intention was good
okay one thing i want to point out. You said that Shisui didnt make a not and it wasnt mentioned and put forward the idea that itachi wrote the note himself. The thing is when shisui jumps off the cliff with itachi right there he told itiachi he had already wrote a note. i watched it yesterday rewatching shippuden. go back and watch it yourself. he def says it to itachi before "unaliving himself" (and i laugh when people say this. i heard thats only a tiktok thing using that term but on YT you can say the S word)
One important thing I think people aren't fully considering is that Itachi was said to have "wiped out the Uchiha clan by himself" from the earliest stages of the story.
You could argue that Itachi has always been written as Godly OP and so that's originally what happened before a retcon, but the early writing heavily pushed the idea that the Uchiha are super powerful so would it really make sense that Itachi could kill them all on his own without causing an uproar?
Basically what I'm getting at is that even the original writing secretly included the idea of someone helping Itachi so at least a big chunk of Itachi's story probably wasn't a retcon.
I dont understand this "Bad motivation" argument.
If he wanted to kill everyone in his clan just to test his abilities, then thats it. He's just a crazy guy...
That's just how evil he is.
Kisame literally has itachi's original motivation...and everyone still loves him.
Itachi would've turned on Obito regardless anyway, it would've been cool if he did it to test his ability again.
Honestly, it would've been better than the bs he put Sasuke thru.
Sasuke is all fked up because itachi.
And that was itachi being nice.
its been a long time since i've seen the series but from what i've remembered i never saw Itachi as a bad guy i saw him as a double agent for the leaf and the akatsuki
What about hin in OG naruto
A double agent that does absolutely nothing for the leaf and actively helps the akatsuki
My take on this is that Itachi was always supposed to be good but the timeline for when he joined the Akatsuki doesn't add up. In chapter 7 Sasuke says "That time he was crying" when he was referring to Itachi which we later learn is a important part of the Uchiha massacre. Sasuke even directly mentions that moment as him trying to forget it after he finds out the truth of Itachi.
EVERYONE I knew at the time was saying itachi was a good guy.
I think the author always kept it open as an option on purpose and when he decided to up the power cieling he decided to use the option to make itachi good.
hmmmm.. my question to this however, what was supposed to be sasuke's character arc if itachi was just evil? like once he had killed itachi, what was he supposed to do?
True cuz Sasuke literally had no purpose after Danzo
The age part is wrong on your side. Itachi killed whole clan when he was 13. By the end of part 1, Itachi was 20. So yeah, Itachi destroyed Orochimaru when he was 13.
I think I will solve the dilemma by actually making Root Anbu the real killers. However Itatchi took the fall to protect the peace because he is a protag.
Sasuke's recollection of events was a tsukoyomi, not true because Itatchi changed his memory when they saw each other.
Sarutobi also likely thought it better to defeat Danzo with a rogue min then one of his Anbu.
I meant he is a pacifist
Didn't the 'seven long years' mean that Orochimaru was in Akatsuki for 7 years? Hmm, yeah this is kind of weird they can't make up their mind about when Orochimaru left, so nevermind I guess.
I loved the vid but I will say that the first time we meet Itachi he did have a need to flex his muscles to intimidate Danzo so some of his actions can be explained in that light.
Kishimoto changed him to be a good guy after playing the 2003 ps2 Konami classic MGS 3
when Itachi hears that Kakashi knows too much about Akatsuki he literally orders Kisame to capture Kakashi and KILL Kurenai and Asuma...
and everyone with the common sense knows that Kakashi survived because of plot armour, and he is very lucky that he didn't die because of Itachi's tsukuyomi or got out of his mind, fortunately he happened to have enough willpower to survive it but still was put into vegetative state and nobody knows what would have happened to him if Tsunade didn't return
If ur gonna call itachi a good guy then what about Hitler? Both committed genocide for their country - village.
I don’t think people in this comment section get what foreshadowing is. Kishimoto could’ve just been vague about Itachi’s true motives so that he’d be able to maneuver around a plot twist in the future
That's a weird looking nail at 15:25
When Itachi tortured Kakashi for 3 days...I was for sure on board with Evil Itachi.
Honestly, I was kinda upset that he was a good guy.
I imagine that if Itachi wanted to be stronger than Madara...he could've.
He was "KCM2 Naruto level" healthy...that's approaching base Madara no sharingan/no Hashi cells.
What could've been....should've been...but we got Aliens instead.
What have you taught she has issues with kakashi because he has a sharingan and he isn't a Uchiha? Every other Uchiha at one point has had issues with it
I think it was a retcon but I think he just wasn't sure. Because it's hard to look past him not killing Kakashi
For Kakashi, he could've straight up killed him he was more than strong enough to do so, but instead chose torture knowing that it was dangerous to overuse his eyes.
Do be fair and play devils advocate here- Itachi's motivations were never known before we find out from obito.
In fact sasuke asks in his flashback "why are you doing this big brother" and he says to tests his abilities.
The problem with this is that Itachi is hinted at having deep feelings for the village ever since part 1 (I know you talk about this in the video where Kisame asks Itachi).
I believe that Itachi's true motivations were kept vague for a reason so that Kishimoto-Sensei could decide later how he wants to structure his character and story once revealed.
Authors purposely leave things vague on purpose, or even give easily rebutted characters motivations or facts so that it's more obvious and natural that clearly it was never a character's true story/purpose.
However you are right when you talk about Itachi placing Kakashi into a genjustu, there could've been easier ways to take Kakashi out of the fight without torturing him- but maybe Itachi felt that Kakashi was powerful and risky to take on in a head on battle- so he used tsukuyomi to get him out of the battle asap.
However that 7 years comment by Orochimaru was obviously a timeline mistake as we can all agree.
Itachi probably couldnt have been an akatsuki member until the massacre.
Now I guess this theory of yours relies on this 7 years statement on the timeline, but as we all know Kishimoto isnt exactly great with the arranging timelines.
I do agree that it would be interesting if that meant that Itachi WAS a bad guy and secretly joined the akatsuki at 10 before the massacre even happened- essentially being a real traitor/terrorist.
Your theory has merit, but I personally believe his story was purposely left vague and Kishimoto just made a mistake about the timeline statement.
Great video though.
I think he did have some retcon. Maybe sometimes I can see itachi was supposed to be a bit more of an asshole but he wanted Sasuke to get stronger. But he wasn’t supposed to be team Leaf Village. Which is why he almost kills Kakashi. But then at part twos beginning he seems to be a much better person. Especially with how he acts and what he does.
Itachi's "you need more hate" speech to Sasuke really doesn't make sense if he was always supposed to be good as villain it makes sense since we know Itachi will eventually go blind from using the mangekyo and the only way to fix that is to transplant someone else's basically he's grooming his future eye donor but as a good guy why would you ever encourage your little brother to gain power by killing his best friend and reinforce that through mental torture
Ehh i mean most likely a retcon itachis motivations for wiping out his clan pre shippuden was to get stronger, i mean the uchiha clan at that point was known by all and feared by all so it makes sense plus no matter how evil a character is they still always have love for someone which could be why he left sasuke alive in the moment and maybe he knew sasuke would be the only ninja who could match him
Let's not ignore the fact that, had Naruto not intervened in time, Sasuke would have gotten his body stolen by Orochimaru and Itachi would look like the biggest dumbass in the entire world for basically giftwrapping him for the guy. It's pretty obvious that Kishimoto's intentions for his character changed at some point, and he did a pretty good job of covering his tracks to make it seem like this was always his plan from the start.
I’m not sure about this one, the Sound 4 would have probably submitted to Sasuke like Orochimaru did.
Orochimaru and Sasuke were one, it was like a symbiotic relationship. Sasuke got nerfed from losing Orchimaru.
@@granddefectus4602 Orochimaru's original plan wasn't actually to train Sasuke, just steal his body the moment he showed up. That's why he waited as long as he did and was reluctant to switch hosts, because it would mean he'd have to wait another 3 years before getting his chance. Naruto delayed him long enough to force Orochimaru to choose another body or die, which Itachi had absolutely nothing to do with.
I assume Itachi had some way of keeping tabs on Saskue, so it seems he should have known Saskue was curse marked and move against Orochi before he could claim Saskue. Or do something ovee those 3 yrs to keep Sasku3 from becoming a meat suit for snake man.
@@granddefectus4602 Yeah, well, except for the fact that Orochimaru's initial plan was to take Sasuke's body since Kimimaro's got that weird disease that all OP Naruto side characters of sorts seem to get xD.
@@Sei003 😂😂😂
The true retcon was Itachi always caring about Sasuke. You could argue that he choked Sasuke out in that hallway to keep up the pretense for Kisame, but re-traumatizing him was for who, exactly? Sasuke dropping everything to find Itachi was proof enough that he hadn’t gone soft. Hell, even genjutsu’ing him the first time was overkill. Itachi didn’t think Sasuke watching him murder his parents and finding the bodies of his relatives was enough of a reason for him to seek revenge?
Exactly. If not for Tsunade, Sasuke would never have woken from that Tsukiyomi coma. If we're meant to believe Itachi was good all along, he gambled on bad odds that Sasuke would ever recover.
But...but he was the "best and most caring brother" in the series. He can do no wrong. It was Danzo's fault that he nearly drove his beloved brother to insanity. It's fake news. He actually had calculated to far into the future and had known that it would all lead to Sasuke getting the rinnegan. Yes Itachi orchestrated the sage of six paths, true Kishimoto said it in an interview. I have no link to it but you can trust me.
Itachi being a good guy/loving his brother and all that jazz was retcon end of story. It was a good retcon but a retcon nonetheless.
itachi is brain dead
For someone who's supposed to be a genius, kishi made itachi seemed like a moron.
@@lolcall5295 ye
Itachi's reason for murdering his whole town was always incredibly vague, so I think Kishi wanted to do something with it later on, but I don't for a single moment believe Itachi was intended to be good.
Itachi whole existence was pretty vague at the time. Usually a person doesn't commit genocide without some reason, and we really never got that reason until shippuden. But I do think some of the stuff he did in his first appearance was a bit overkill for the dude we know as of today
It’s likely that he intended for Itachi to be a sympathetic villain who still cared about Sasuke, but Kishimoto made him sympathetic to the point of being a flawed hero instead of a sympathetic villain.
It could have been as simple as trying to trigger the mangekyou sharingan in Sasuke so he could steal Sasukes eyes and get the EMS Boost and not go blind
@@camth7862 They would probably have to change the anime continuity where Fugaku has a Mangekyo. I think the original idea was for Itachi to just want Sasuke’s eyes, but what Kishi ended up doing, turning Itachi into a flawed hero who was actually protecting the village, makes things way more interesting for Sasuke especially. Now instead of just getting revenge against his evil older brother, Sasuke has to grapple with his entire life motivations being a lie and the village actually betraying him.
@@camth7862 Yea I think I would have liked that better even. Real dark horror vibes, which the show kinda gave up on toward the end there. Used to be straight up creepy.
Short answer. Itachi was supposed to be a Villain. When they saw how popular the character got in Naruto, they needed to change it to a good guy for Shippuden.
Also... mgs3 released during the sasuke retrieval arc and kishimoto loves videogames
He was never supposed to be a villain, his double motivations were foreshadowed very early.
@@donovan4222no bruh 😂 he deadass made his own brother relive his parents dead millions of times. That alone it counter productive to his goals later
@@chipchippington4551 No it’s not, he already explained he was making Sasuke stronger through hatred, which worked a little too well.
@@donovan4222 no it was counter productive, he turned sasuke into a murder with PTSD and lead sasuke down the path he ended up at damn near wiping out the leaf and the potentially weakening the leaf by causing sasuke to turn against them, there were too many variables by torturing his own brother.
It was a retcon, kishimoto himself said Itachi was meant to be a irredeemable villain at the start but changed it
Definately a retcon, no doubt. same with Hashirama and Tobirama scaling in shippuden. I think Kishimoto had a hard time justifying Itachi's motivations for his past behavior.
Yeah when I first heard his reason I was like "this dude is supposed to be like top tier intelligence with a dumb motivation?"
He could've just challenged a very powerful Shinobi like one of the Sannin and not kill children to "test his abilities". Kishimoto is just a poor writer when it comes to character development. His best characters when it came to character development always got shoved into irrelevancy for exception of Sasuke who actually changed throughout the show.
Name some points which prove its a retcon
@AK-su3tz it's either a retcon or the manga is written by someone who's less than 40 iq.
Feel free to try to justify a good guy putting his brother under a genjutsu that only ONE person has the ability to remove and that one person had left the village a decade+ ago lmao.
@@AK-MS27 for example, Itachi's original voice acting had a more sadistic angle when Sasuke first had the flashback of Itachi telling him his hatred wasn't strong enough and even called his existence pathetic.
Even when he first attacked the village, he didn't need to put Kakashi under Tsukuyomi. If he was actually a good guy and know this is an extreme form of torture, he'd have empathy for his fellow anbu colleague he spend years with.
And when people say he didn't kill Kakashi, well of course not, he had two other Shinobi to worry about and also Guy came in. He also stated his objective wasn't to kill or cause a big commotion but to seize the Kyubi Jinjuriki, which he almost succeeded on if it wasn't for Jiraiya showing up.
He knew the leaf's security measures were alerted.
He used the Tsukuyomi a SECOND time on his kid brother and breaks his arm.
If his sudden "is a good guy all along" doesn't sound like a retcon to you. I don't know what does.
He said he was watching the akatsuki but he was doing their bidding in kidnapping and killing people? How come he never warned the other villages or the leaf Naruto was about to be kidnapped? Why try to kidnap Naruto if his job was to spy on the Akatsuki to warn the leaf?
The show gives us the impression that he first shows up because the Hokage was dead, thus the village was more vulnerable and the Sannin are gone, so the people who might pose a threat aren't around in his mind.
@You Are I’d argue both. Lol
Look the argument I believe is strongest for why Itachi is a retcon is that it's the only thing that explains Itachi's moment of sheer stupidity in executing his plan. Basically Itachi wanted Sasuke to kill him in order to avenge the Uchiha, thereby dying as the villain, and successfully concealing the truth about the coup. And he definitely didn't want Sasuke to turn into a terrorist or anything, as evidenced by the fact that, after Itachi was brought back to life, he was confused as to why Sasuke wanted to join the Akatsuki and destroy the Leaf.
So if that was his goal, why would he think giving a six year old PTSD and telling him to dedicate his life to hatred is a good idea?
Because he wanted Sasuke to get strong enough to kill him? Itachi literally let him win anyway. There's no reason he needed to do any of that. And if there was, then why was Itachi so surprised when the PTSD and hatred turned Sasuke into a terrorist? He basically did to Sasuke what Obito did to Nagato to turn him into Pain. Only instead I guess Sasuke become Hate? Either way, what did you expect to happen, my guy?
This is bigger than your typical uh-oh-spaghetti-o kind of mistake, so it begs the question if there was more than some disconnect between itachi's intentions and executions
I agree with you 💯 and I believe Naruto would have been so much better if there were no retcons or at least no awkwardly forced ones
He knew photo was a threat and no one besides nagato or itachi even knew of his existence so he had to make a way for assume to get as strong as possible in the shortest time possible to deal with photo as he knew he was after Naruto and would eventually attack the hidden leaf and end up killing or recruiting sasuke anyway and itachi wanted to avoid those possibilities the most
Obito*
Also he really wouldn’t have known about obitos kamui so he thought he could keep sasuke away from obito and satiate his hatred with his death while also massively powering up sasuke so I do agree it was his plan did have some flaws but for the most part it was understandable especially since most of it worked right up until obitos interference.
Itachi wasn’t a retcon, but his story wasn’t fully planned out either. Basically Kishimoto knew what direction he was going to take the character in part 2 and purposely left Itachi’s motivations and plan mysteriously unsolved in part 1 so he could finish the story later.
I think he did a decent job with making Itachi’s motivations and plan make sense with part 1.
Itachi wasn’t perfect, by the end of the series he recognizes that getting Sasuke to hate him was his biggest mistake. And Itachi didn’t just do that as part of his plan because it was smart, he was doing it in large part out of guilt for what he did and wanting Sasuke to punish him.
As for Itachi letting him win, that isn’t as simple as you make it seem. Sasuke needed to get stronger to believably beat Itachi and be a hero of the leaf. Sasuke needed to believe he had beat Itachi, there needed to be a believable fight, both for Sasuke to believe it, and for Itachi to feel he was truly being punished for the Uchiha massacre.
Kishimoto had his idea for the manga, but the studio had its own idea, and Kishi followed suit. While watching the anime, I felt some conspiracy was going on, which would be revealed later in the story, that Itachi killed the entire clan to stop a coup. When this was first shown, I was not that surprised; what did surprise me was that they tried to recontextualize his actions as heroic rather than cold-hearted and calculated. The only reason he kept Sasuke alive was that despite being cold-hearted, he still loved Sasuke.
Actions can be both heroic, and cold hearted/calculated
@@donovan4222 And what's heroic about killing your entire family and clan save for one person? No culture in history would commend this, it is beyond barbarism.
Narutard stop it was a retcon
@@slyapbgbut he only killed his clan to prevent war that would cause the death of thousands
@@slyapbg It's to save the village and prevent casualties, it was not for one person.
On the Akatsuki not resembling the Akatsuki we see in Shippudden. I’m pretty sure that Kishimoto’s original idea was to have every other Akatsuki member be an Oni of some sort. And the symbolism that Itachi was so bad that he belonged with a group of Oni which are basically monsters.
The plothole concerning the timing of itachi joining and orochimaru leaving the akatsuki is easily explained...
Hashirama cells
I forgot about that.
Imo Itachi was The worst uchiha by Far,
Even shusui and Sasuke are better than him
Sasuke cant cast genjutsu with a finger or of figured out how to stop kabutos control over edo tensei, or free himself from control of edo tensei. Hes also not as nice with the kunai as itachi still
Wdym better than him? In what? As characters?
And honesty, Obito and Madara are straight up braindead, bad villains. Especially Obito, who is just a simp. At least Madara got tired of the shit that comes with humanity and wanted to put them all down into a dream where everyone is happy. That makes a little bit of sense at least. But Obito? Straight up poop. Itachi is a much better character than both of those, Shisui got killed too early, he basically has no character, Sasuke? Ehhh... maybe.
Shisui isn’t a character. He’s just an idea. Itachi and Sasuke are the best Uchiha characters by far.
In terms of what? In any case you're wrong
I think Kishi retconed him when he saw the popularity of Itachi and it would be obvious in hindsight on why he’s so popular. Edgy design, cool eyes, very strong. Yea people definitely wanted some sort of redemption
He clearly always planned for Itachi to at least haves some kind of sympathetic motivations
Redemption arcs are dumb, he should have just remained evil. He could have believed in the Akatsuki's goal and still be a villain.
@@donovan4222 bllsht.
You cant redeem killing your whole family and clan. Makes zero sense. Yall just fkng stpd.
Hmm
Ngl...itachi is an idiot at times 🤷🏻♂️... Sorry but ...if he wanted to be good, he would've got himself an eternal mangekyo, would've worked on his own to directly harm or distract the Akatsuki, would've been cool if itachi turned out to be the reason we'd have someone like the 2 Tails surviving Akatsuki at least until the war arc, maybe you could have him be the one to take out one of the Akatsuki on his own. The whole "fueling sasukes hatred to make him stronger" is dumb... Sasuke would've got 3 tomoe sharingan without itachi's help anyways, getting mangekyo and eternal mangekyo would probably require itachi dying anyways though...could make an "itachi rescue arc" where a good sasuke with the entire team seven would head out to rescue an itachi that got captured by Pain, but they fail and itachi gets killed in front of sasuke plunging him into the despair needed for the mangekyo... Then after pain is defeated, he recovers itachi's eyes to get the EM....
I think one thing no one brings up is Itachi telling Sasuke if he wanted tod efeat him, he needed eyes like his, and the only way to get eyes like his is to kill someone he loved. Itachi pratically setup up Sasuke's life for perpetual suffering cause keep in mind, if Sasuke did follow through on his advice, he'd would've effectively been a criminal and a wanted man as a result. And given that closest Sasuke has to a friend at the time was Naruto, who was a jinchuuriki. Sasuke could've lost his life if Naruto was so disillusioned with their "bond". And if Sasuke did kill naruto, it would've made him public enemy number 1 in the nation. Itachi is single-handedly responsible for why Sasuke is the way he is and why he's damn near almost died several times through-out the series because of how much emotional manipulation he's had to go through as a result of Itachi. So I never did like how the narrative was bending over backwards to kiss Itachi's butt after the fact.
I think killing naruto would vary in results depending on when sasuke kills him. The village hated and didn't care for naruto for all his early life. I dont think sasuke would have been hated that much aside from most of the main cast. Just not the whole village now if the event happened differently as in if pain attacked the village and naruto becomes the village hero happened BEFORE sasuke fights itachi and if sasuke kills him during that time then i can definitely see him becoming a huge criminal to everyone in the village
@@TheEmeraldTyrantSasuke wasn’t loved either, and killing a leaf shinobi as a leaf genin is an act of treason. So he would be executed aswell, or regarded as a criminal at least. Hiruzen would go crazy if the 4th hokage’s son he was supposed to take care of got killed…
If Itachi retcon is true (most likely is true) then that means that jiraiya was either planned to be way stronger than he is or Itachi and kisame were planned to be alot weaker than they are
Itachi is also sick. He had used his mangekyo sharingan jutsu against Kakashi and Sasuke. Maybe he would be too tired to fight Jiraiya. Also, if he’s a spy he could be lying to Kisame. There is a chance that Jiraiya and Orochimaru are stronger than Kisame and doesn’t know Itachi’s full strength.
I mean, no. Orochimaru was portrayed as being the strongest of the Sanin and Orochimaru plainly says Itachi is much stronger than him a few chapters before the Jiraiya incident. Itachi’s reactions to Jiraiya in contrast to Orochimaru’s plain admission of inferiority to Itachi is…. You guessed it! **Foreshadowing**.
@@Bloooo95 exactly. Itachi running from Jiraiya is further evidence that it wasn’t a retcon but the retcon people act like it’s evidence that kishimoto is a bad writer.
Likely the latter
@@jourdansarpy4935dude he's a horrible writer
I really don't think "The Truth about Itachi" was ever planned from the beginning. It feels like Sasukes revenge arc reached it's natural conclusion and that Kishimoto didn't know what to do with Sasuske's character once he completed his revenge to keep Naruto and Sasuke not only apart but opposed to the other. One of my points of contention with the storyline also which I find hilarious whenever people wank Itachi in terms of power scaling is that I'm supposed to believe that Obito was fearful of Itachi's strength yet Itachi complied in murdering half of his clan not only for the village but because Madara was supposed to be that great of an external threat he would have to comply. If Itachi was truly so strong why did he not attempt to take Obito(Madara's) life sooner? When he was still healthy and not dying of some unknown illness.
I wish after sasuke killed itachi, he and team hebi just went to a mist village or rain, and lived like that, left the story, then rock lee would take over, sasuke was the best character in my opinion from part 1 up till his fight with itachi, after tobi tells sasuke the truth and itachis horrible retcon, sasuke drops severe quality
@@IIIISai I think the story would have been very interesting with Sasuke and hebi as a wandering antihero instead of making Naruto and Sasuke directly oppose eachother. The Akatsuki storyline could have been resolved in a different way too.
@@NotTheWheel yeah i feel like it would've been interesting if sasuke returned to the village way earlier like if naruto vs sasuke final battle occured way earlier let's say after pain fight for example and naruto won. I feel like having obito or madara as the final boss with naruto and sasuke working together will feel more interesting rather than having them just be these reincarnation of gods that's destined to fight one another
Which is why the show is horribly written
@@NotTheWheel fully agree, lost potential
Shisui wrote the note. He tells Itachi when we gives him his eye, if he's truly his friend he won't try and stop him, and that he's already left a note and he leaves the rest to Itachi.
No. No he wasn't. Its very clear Kishimoto intended for Itachi to be Sasukes main villain. His rising popularity caused his editors to suggest him changing Itachi into someone more kind.
Theres no way he was always a good guy and a spy. Itachi never gave Tsunade or anyone in power ANY DATA on the Akatsuki.
I believe he got retconned but the why I doubt, editors probably didn’t care
Itachi directly said that he's not perfect but people, I don't know, ignore this fact. It makes me furious. Itachi made it clear that he's not perfect, he's not a saint but fans like shut their eyes, ignore their idol and keep idolizing him too much
When do people say he’s perfect?
@@Bloooo95 They think Itachi did nothing wrong and its all 100% Danzo's fault. People deny the fact Itachi is a villain/antagonist in the story at all, even though he clearly is.
I'm actually annoyed at the other type of people, who proudly proclaim that Itachi isn't actually perfect as if its something they and no one else has realized or discovered, when it was literally addressed in the series. Even worse when they actually criticise the story for it lol.
@@panthekirb7561
Exactly
@@panthekirb7561 The Uchiha Massacre was Danzo’s fault. Itachi didn’t create the circumstances to make it happen. Itachi did his part to try to prevent it but Danzo set the table to wipe out the clan whether Itachi chose to side with the village or the Uchiha. So, yes, it was Danzo and the village and the Uchiha and Obito that set all that into motion. Did Itachi make a choice? Sure. But it was just to save his brother. Itachi’s biggest mistake is his handling of Sasuke after the Massacre.
If you think Itachi, a 12 year old, is the sole person with agency in the very nuanced intrapolitical conflict surrounding the Uchiha massacre, then you’re deluded. The circumstances surround the massacre are so much bigger than Itachi that’s it’s insane to pin it all on him.
Did he need to torture Sasuke? Should he have hid the truth from Sasuke and not placed faith/trust in Sasuke’s own strength? Should he have pushed him to pursue hatred? Should he have pushed Sasuke to pursue vengeance out of Itachi’s own greed to want to be killed out of guilt? No. He could have handled Sasuke much better and he’s admitted to that. Most people agree. However, y’all hyper focus on a problem that can’t be blamed on Itachi. The massacre was so much bigger than him and Danzo already had the pieces together to make it happen regardless.
As far as Itachi using Tsukuyomi on Kakashi, I always thought that Itachi did it because Itachi knew Kakashi well due to their time in Anbu and also knew he was Sasuke's sensei. But utterly destroying Kakashi and putting him in a coma, it very easily showed Sasuke that even his own sensei gets bitched by Itachi meaning he's not powerful enough to give Sasuke the power he needs to kill Itachi.
It's like Itachi was doubling down on ensuring Sasuke only have raging and pure hatred for Itachi and realized it was not just a desire to kill Itachi but a duty as Itachi could easily take his new family of Kakashi, Naruto & Sakura away from him as he did his original family in the Uchiha Clan.
Now Sasuke wasn't just avenging the Uchiha clan, he was saving anyone else from Itachi's perceived sociopathicly inflated ego. So taking out Kakashi would only sharpen Sasuke's resolve so that there could be no doubt in Sasuke's mind that he had to kill Itachi. But in all honesty I did not get the feeling at any point of Naruto part 1 that Itachi was actually a good guy or protecting the leaf.
i agree with your take, but i also believe he was a pyschopath
@@IIIISai It certainly felt like it.
But I guess Shipuuden is 2020 Hindsight so it all makes sense why as powerful as he and Kisame were didn't engage Jiraiya or kill Kakashi which they combined could definitely do. Itachi alone actually.
The very first databook has a bit about Itachi where it says something along the lines of "what are this mysterious character's true motives?" or something like that, hinting that there's more to him than what you might originally guess. Not to mention when he used Tsukuyomi on Kakashi, Kakashi said to himself "why not just kill me? If he wanted to, he could.", another sign that Itachi was holding back or showing mercy. The only reason he put Kakashi out of commission was to prevent a large-scale fight from breaking out, he knew if he incapacitated the heaviest hitter the Leaf has outside of the Sannin, the other Jonin would prioritize Kakashi's safety and allow Itachi and Kisame a window to escape.
Well yeah, we didn’t know the whole thing about the Akatsuki and the eye of the moon plan
He didn't have to torture Kakashi though. The Tsukuoymi could have been literally anything else
@@kaiseramadeus233that shit was extreme overkill💀
@@kaiseramadeus233 yes he did. To end the fight right then and there he had to take out their heaviest hitter, even Might Guy would know that prioritizing Kakashi's safety is more important than chasing after them. It was the only path for Itachi to escape without causing a big fight to break out.
@@Borchert97 In the novels, Itachi took out Izumi with a peaceful Tsukoyomi. She lived an entire life of happiness inside an illusion that ended up killing her. So yes, I stand by the fact that 72 hours of torture was unnecessary. Literally anything else could have happened and the results would have been the same
It was not only revealed later Sasuke had supressed the memory of itachi crying. It was mentioned all the way back in chapter 7. Sasuke says to Sakura "There's a man that only I can kill" and she responds with "...Ah... Who do you mean?" and he says "That time... Crying..." and she says "Crying...?" then sasuke says "My..." and she says "What... What do you mean?" then he goes on to say "I'm an avenger. I have to become stronger than him. So I can't jus stay here and do nothing." Later on we also see the shot of Itachi with his headband sideways, except it's not as clear so we don't see the crying. This shot is never shown again, until it's revealed that Itachi was crying in it later on (and Sasuke then confirms he was repressing the memory). This was very clearly thought out from the beginning.
Also Itachi could have literally just killed Kakashi with the Tsukiyomi if he wanted to. If he really was evil, there would be no reason for him to hold back. He obviously had to do some bad things to keep up the act. Just seriously harming him instead of killing seems like the perfect way to do that.
if it was really thought out from the the beginning, and Kishimato really did intend for Itachi to be a "good guy" from the very beginning, then Kishimato is a genocide denying piece of shit, and the fanbase is so incredibly morally corrupt or just dumb.
He was crying while committing genocide? wow, that changes everything. hes basically a saint for that.
the crying could be a reference to how s a s u k e was crying during it, and also it might not have been thought out that itachi c a n kill people with tsukuyomi yet.
for real, people forget that the akatsuki KILLS anyone who betrays them, itachi did not want to look suspicious to kisame and that's why he attacks kurenai and asuma, he could've killed kakashi with the tsukuyomi if he really wanted to and even kakashi questions it himself why he hadn't killed him yet
all the bad things he's done are all to not look suspicious to kisame and trying his best to not kill anyone from the leaf, imagine yourself being itachi's partner in the akatsuki and everytime you two have to fight anyone from his village he chose to flee instead or hesitated to fight everytime, it wouldn't look convincing for kisame and even more obvious to the audience that something else is going on with him, i think the ''evil'' actions that he chose on part 1 aren't the best but they do cover his identity to kisame pretty well in my opinion
@@fakeblast well on other hand if kisame gonna go wild, most of his strong water jutsu are really massive(cover huge area) so once akatsuki duo start serious fight, they would instantly give themselves away. And it would be a huge problem in their naruto hunting
@@n.6847 A genocide that he was forced to commit (if he didn't someone else would have, except Sasuke would have also been killed) so that another world war wouldn't start.
Big bro casualy broke Sasuke's arm without a reason. Ofc he was bad in chapter 1 and it was retconned in shipuuden
Also, remember in the flashback to Itachi beating the police and ranting to his father about how fed up he is, it was *Sasuke* calling out to Itachi that made him snap back to his senses and apologize for the trouble. I think it's safe to say he always loved his little brother. Even if he showed it in ways that make me want to absolutely throttle him.
I think that in the Tsunade Arc, Kishimoto had a loose idea of his character and had a few different directions he was thinking of going with but after seeing how popular Itachi was, he decided to put him into the "Tragic Hero" path. From the Sasuke Retrieval Arc onwards, his character is pretty consistent
The most likely explanation
It was weird how after Sasuke found out the truth he started to idolize itachi and the other characters started talking about itachi like he was some misunderstood hero,I think kishi knew how popular itachi was so he had to retcon how the characters perceived him when he was generally disliked by Sasuke and the others as a traitor to the leaf but when his truth is revealed his actions are suddenly seen as heroic.The only character who still hated itachi and Uchiha was Tobirama.
@@justinarzola4584 It's so weird that a teenager Sasuke was like "Yes my dear brother, who killed everyone I loved, thank you for making me an orphan and making my life complete hell".
"You see Sasuke, killing all of those Uchiha babies and mothers was the right to do"
Mgs3 came out during that arc... kishimoto likes video games... hmmmmm
Itachi went from a great villain to the worst double agent in history. He didn’t share any info about the akatsuki 😂 he loves Sasuke so much that he’d torture Sasuke into a coma and let him live with Orochimaru the creep who experiments on people
To be blunt-
Kishimoto has, basically never planned very far ahead in Naruto and it shows A LOT with hindsight.
I can't recall the specifics, but Sasuke was originally supposed to die and stay dead in the land of waves arc against Haku, and it was simply Kishimoto's own love of the character that made him keep him alive.
This also tracks with pilot issues of the original Naruto manga that were sort of meant to test the concept out-
Kishimoto has...basically never had time to plan ANYTHING, or never attempted to and it shows with Itachi, Madara, Kaguya, Black Zetsu, the Ten Tails, everything with the Sage of Six Paths, Sasuke, and Kurama.
The one thing that Kishimoto was great at was winging it, and you can even tell that he's winging it because there are dramatic tonal shifts in the series that...frankly just don't mesh very well together. Like how the Chuunin Exams feels somewhat similar to the land of waves arc up until the final third of it, then the show takes on a nearly entirely different tone and feel, Shippuden feels nothing like pre-time skip, and by the time we get to the war arc, it sort of feels like DBZ with extra steps with Kishimoto making statements at the time like how he has no idea how to deal with Madara in the story-
I have mixed feelings on how a lot of things in Naruto were handled in hindsight, I love the series for what it is-
But Kishimoto has NEVER stated that he had everything figured out from the start, if anything it was the opposite and he seemingly made a lot of last minute decisions on a weekly basis, if not for every part of the story, then at least for some of them-
I do think that he had very strong ideas, but didn't really have them at the same time or commit to them for very long from a writing standpoint.
He sort of had this approach of "adding more" when he hit a key point, rather than fleshing something that already exists out.
Like how we go from learning about chakra control, ninjutsu, taijutsu and genjutsu, to summoning jutsu in just a few arcs, and past a certain point, chakra control, genjutsu, and summonings rarely ever play a key part in the story, and most characters only ever know a handful of jutsu that is unique to them and rarely ever learn anything from each other unless it's passed down from teacher to student.
Beyond learning the rasengan, Naruto's real biggest training arc doesn't even happen until he learns wind release to make the rasenshuriken all the way in Shippuden, then he supposedly causes permanent damage in his arm because it's imperfect, and that supposed injury never plays any role in the story again except for him learning the perfected version of rasenshuriken...which required sage mode to be used at distance...but then...there are times in the war where he just...uses it without sage mode or tailed beast chakra anyways if I remember right?-
I don't know, it's weird, Kishimoto covers his tracks on a lot of things, but there's always suspicious looking dirt everywhere afterwards if you look back at all of it-
Hes not a good guy at all, he killed his family and clan members. The reason doesnt matter to me, justifying murder is stupid. Also to this day i think one of the most horrible writing decision by Kishimoto was expending on the itachi flashback that his parents "proud of him when he kills them". Surely its fine to have ideals but seems too unrealistic to think that those Uchiha would rather die than just changing there mindset and survive.
dumbass uchiha's are evil we already know that they are very egotistical see madara as an example, they already make a peaceful village but madara ruined it bcuz he can't accept the fact that people didn't vote him to be hokage it's understandable since madara at their first war he still keeps insisting about hashirama's plan
man he was 14, and this video clearly displays his character was changed mid way. He’s not a bad guy
When you look at his backstory, he has gone thru major impacts that kid should not be experiencing. His mind was too advanced which made him think of the meaning of life and death at like the age of 5. To then be under pressure from his clan and village wanting to kill each other basically. We have to look at his experiences at his age, as he gets older he learns more to accept that he could have done things differently.
@@odette4059 nah he’s a horrible person. He killed men women and children. Stop it. Is Anakin a good guy to you as well?
@@angelrose1597 that literally does not justify killing men women and children in mass numbers. Stop it dude. Horrible people can be complex. It’s not that hard. Itachi is a bad person. That’s it.
Itachi's Fanbase Is The Most Cringiest Fanbase In The Entire Anime verse
There's worse... a subpart of the jojo community.... the egg.
@@Kiko_miraiwe dont talk about the egg-
True
@@Kiko_mirai
I'm a huge jojo fan and I feel like if I knew what you were referring to I wouldn't be a jojo fan anymore
Zoro fan base.... easily the worst.
I remember reading somewhere that initially, Sasuke didn't exist in the original draft for Naruto, so in that draft, Itachi probably could have been played straight as a talented genius dude who murdered his family for more singular power, setting him up to be one more foil for Naruto to beat up and prove a failure because friendship is based and all that.
don't believe that shitt💀 naruto has so many misconceptions about it this itachi is actually a goodguy was just inconsistent writing it's not a retcon the idea of itachi making sasuke like that to make him hate itachi more so he doesn't suspect the leaf but kishi forgot about orochimaru taking sasuke's body
I don't think Itachi was ever a good guy. He did what benefitted the Leaf, but none of what Itachi actually did was morally good. Raising your sword against your own flesh and blood for strangers who don't like you, your family, your clan, or your brother is pretty evil in and of itself.
I believe it’s called “extreme patriotism”
@@MILDMONSTER1234I would call it utilitarianism. He sacrificed his clan to prevent even more deaths from a Civil War and foreign incursion
Let me remind y'all that Itachi was the guy who believed killing his entire clan was an acceptable course of action.
Genjutsu on a woman to make her hit on Jirayia is a tame action in comparison.
True
It was a Retcon 100%😂
@@MasterofTheUniverse1337 yeah it was. So?
@@Fif0l Nothing i Just wanted to Write that.
There’s other hints from Part 1 you didn’t touch on. For instance, there’s the comment Asuma made in Kakashi’s room that it made no sense that Itachi hadn’t already captured Naruto since he knows Naruto’s face and the village and is as powerful as he is. That question from Asuma isn’t answered. It’s left open to get the audience thinking. If Orochimaru, the man who almost destroyed the village a day ago, is saying, “Yep, Itachi is much stronger than me.” Then, yeah, why hasn’t Itachi already captured Naruto if that’s his sole goal? Well… you find out why in Part 2.
I don’t think Kishimoto had all the details worked out (especially with Danzo, the coup, etc.). He actually has said he didn’t know all the details. But he has said that he knew Itachi had complicated reasons for doing what he did that abdicated him somewhat. Given Kishi’s penchant for having sympathetic villains, I think it’s a bit odd to think that’s an unrealistic thing for Kishimoto to minimally plan about Itachi before his appearance.
To me, saying it was a full out retcon is a bit… harsh. It’s easy to see that Itachi having reasons to do what he did was planned from the start, enough for Kishi to drop several hints (Kisame’s statement, Kakashi being shocked Itachi didn’t kill him, Asuma’s statement, Itachi saying he didn’t want to fight or kill Asuma and Kurenai, Orochimaru saying Itachi is much stronger than him and then Itachi agreeing that a Sannin might be too much for him, etc.).
“Evil” Itachi wanted Naruto alive so that Sasuke could kill him and awaken MS. It almost worked too. Not sure if EMS was thought up at the time, but it was clear that Itachi’s eyes were getting worn down and that you can take other people’s Sharingan.
Honestly his first appearance could be explained as him having a bad day and taking out his anger on everyone else. Dude wasn't even an adult at the time wouldn't be too shocking
@@JakoWako I loved that narrative, but, to be honest, i dont think its an asspull that itachi wasnt just mindlessly slaughtering his clan. He knows the secrets of the sharingan, and wanted sasuke to develop his. This is the gray area now, because this is where it can be that he wants the eternal mangekyo because his are failing, but if thats the case, why not just implant shisuis eyes? Or "madara"? Since "madara" knew itachi can kill him with no problem. I think he needed/wanted sasuke to awaken the mangekyo so he can be strong. The entire arc of itachi and kisame showing up in the village is one of my favorites, because he just strolls in and everyone shits their pants and he doesnt kill anyone, traumatizes the shit out of kakashi, and strolls right out when jiraiya shows up. I dont think kishimoto had him as evil, and i dont think it was a retcon to make him "a hero". I think kishi probably didnt know what ultimately caused itachi to slaughter his clan, but i do believe he had it planned that there was a greater purpose to the mindless slaughter, and one that might turn everything on its heads.
so when Kisame was afraid to engage in battle with Jiraiya and was sure that they both were gonna end up defeated, then why did Itachi persuade and forced him to keep on their mission by saying "even the strongest person has a weak point" if you gonna respond that Kisame would get suspicious, not only in that part but for the entire time Kisame has never ever been suspicious of Itachi even a bit and to say that he would get suspicious simply because of Itachi literally agreeing with him is just ridiculous. Also capturing Naruto and sealing tailed beast away as a result of Naruto'a death would cause for Sasuke to awaken MS and even if he was for Konoha, also by capturing Naruto Akatsuki would move their eyes and hands away from Konoha and it would be saved from later invasion and destruction from Pain. Capturing Naruto would be even more safe for Konoha than keeping him in their hands whilst capturing all of the tailed beasts around the world.
@@კრიტიკოსი-შ4ჯ Reread it. Kisame said, “I don’t think I can take him, even though I’m sure you can.” Kisame never wanted to back down and was confident Itachi could take on Jiraiya. Itachi had to give Kisame the impression that Jiraiya might be too much for him as well. After they retreat, Kisame berates Itachi for having to retreat and doubles down that he could have handled Jiraiya.
So, my response is to read the manga more carefully.
It absolutely was a retcon. I don't believe that Itachi would torture his brother for days if he loved him. He just wouldn't. His retconned justification for it is weak. His original justification, that he wants Sasuke to grow up with hate in his heart so as to become strong, test Itachi's capacity and (later) to steal Sasuke's eyes, is convincing.
bro what??? theres so many plotholes in naruto if you truly think about it... i'm not gonna list em all off but like stuff like
shikaku seeing gamabunta transform into the 9-tails and him basically not reacting to him having to fight his brother.
stuff like hirozen vs orochimaru where he was terrified of the 4th hokage being summoned with edo - tensei, only for it later to be written that souls in the reaper death seal cannot be reanimated, making it really weird that hirozen was so worried about the 3rd coffin, considering it a) wouldnt have worked, and b) it had to have been someone other than minato
stuff like the akatsuki searching hard for deidara's ring, even though its completely irrelevant and the rings served no purpose
Love that a piece of foreshadowing is done as soon as he's introduced lol
To me, that’s the biggest piece of proof Kishimoto had a rough idea that Itachi wasn’t just a man that slaughtered his clan for shits and giggles.
@@Bloooo95 thats only if you accept that reading though. To my mind, the more natural interpretation is: itachi is looking down at the hidden leaf and is angry that HIS birth place is so pathetic.
@@DiddntFindANameLol I'm referring to Kisame joking about Itachi being nostalgic about his former home and betraying him. Kisame is also super loyal to the akatsuki, the opposite of Itachi. Which is like all the akatsuki pairings, who are opposites in some way.
@@DiddntFindANameLol I mean, sure. That interpretation would make complete sense if it were the only foreshadowing in Part 1. It wasn’t.
@@Bloooo95 It sort of is though. Its one of his three-and-a-half lines of dialogue in part one.