After trying - I will rate it as Genius! I recently added 2 yaw strings after watching this to my glider and it is so much better. Had an old yaw string that was probably mounted too high. Mounted a Mark IV yaw string according to directions with a smaller yaw string from Yaw String just below it and it works better and is easier to see, especially in the peripheral vision and my big surprise was how much more sensitive the indications were. Found that I was likely over powering the rudder. I would recommend this for any glider owner/pilot.
There aren't many gliders in which pilots sit side by side, but I did have a couple of hours in a Stemme in British Columbia a few years ago. I was irritated and considerably handicapped by not sitting on the centreline and not being able to judge the angle of dangle, because of having to view the yaw string off to the side or very much in peripheral vision. Your idea of using two is the perfect solution for a side by side cockpit.
I don't mean side by side yaw strings in front of each pilot - no thats not going to work, there's a lateral component of the air flow off of the canopy centreline of course. I just mean the double string as you suggest, on the airplane centre, and as you point out , they line up with each other without trying to reference anything else.
I had never seen it before, but as soon as I did I thought it was a smart move. For me it was in case one fell off during flight, but the alignment factor is also a great reason.
@@PureGlide I actually was thinking of a string on the top left and top right so I can look in the direction of the thermal and get yaw information and pitch information. Gonna try it. Then I'm going to cover my canopy in strings. More information, the better 🥴😂 But seriously I think I'm going to try the corners nearly overhead for those tight thermals, and being able to see yaw and AOA.
@@TheSoaringChannel Does Not Work because AoA and yaw would both effect on your "yaw Side middle String" and you wouldnt bei able to See one of both informations... I suggest to usw a real yaw String + 1 or 2 AoA strings.
@@PureGlide I'm going to put two on my Mooney! I've learned allot from you glider guys. Biggest takeaway I've learned... If you have a head wind at altitude. Drop down and stay in contact with the bottom of the clouds... chop is good. Flying west in the US at altitude FL-18 we have predominant headwinds in access of 70 knots... On a 457 NM run, fuel burn is normally 44 gallons... changing style of flying same flight staying in contact with the clouds only cost 30 minutes and burned only 30 gallons of fuel. I do the reciprocal east flight at altitude... Trim the fuel to 10.5 GPH, True AS 120, GS = 190 ~ 200 Kts... Lots of fun and very efficient fuel management! Much different flying than I've ever done... I'm getting comfortable with working with the mountains and loving the views. Wish I had learned to be a glider pilot before transitioning to fueled propulsion. You and Bruno are the two guys I watch... Thank you for your channel! The heard is learning!
Two for sure. I'm a lawyer and for 10+ years I've used 3 VDUs for my desktop PC. Folks are always curious why. The main reason is it's easier than one when needing to read/ compare multiple documents, something we do all the time. It may look funky but if it works, happy days. Besides, no self respecting yachtsman would set sail with only one telltale on his jib.
I was going to ask about that! I'll have to try that after I get the Discus's older brother (Standard Cirrus) restored. I'll probably try it on a club glider. And those cows seem to like you.
Yeah cows are so friendly and curious. Great until they start eating your glider. Seriously a number of fabric gliders have landed out and returned to find cows eating them
@@PureGlide Yeah , reminds me of the tales old and not so old barnstormer pilots used to tell of landing out in the boonies in their fabric covered ships , and when returning after going off for assistance , found the cows making a meal of the doped fabric skin . Evidently they like the taste of that dope !
Cool I like it too . Are the strings lined up or offset a little ? How about some clear tape on the in side with marks on it like a coordinator ball indicator works .thanks for the vids 👍
Yaw second string should be connected to the SOYP's 😅 And, I think your lookout is gonna suffer with all that string in the way.😎 I had to check the date then incase April had snuck up 😆
@@PureGlide It can really help when thermaling (especially in turbulent air or at steep turn angles). A working AoA String needs 2 markings: 1. Stall 2. best L/D Maybe you can try it out If you want.
@@PureGlide They should have a length between 25 - 30 cm and sit 5cm above the frame of your canopy. Calibrate them in unballasted flight with flap setting 0°. Prepare some tape markers. Fly close to stall speed and set the top marker. After that fly speed for lowest sink and best glide and tape the markers. After landing u can tape some thin lines instead of the markers. They also tell u about correct flap setting and it does not matter if your glider is ballasted or not. I do not look at them i just subconsciously recognize them :) Very good for winch launches too by the way. Example: ua-cam.com/video/JQkXw0u78CY/v-deo.html
@@eisenhans9 On your old homepage (2017) you had a dedicated topic about AoA-Strings "Alles hängt am Seit(den)enfaden -- NEUE Version --". Unfortunately it is only available in the wayback machine, without the pdf´s, because your homepage changed a lot. The - Akaflieg Köln - Wayback machine link is still in the german Wiki-article "Faden (Segelflug)" No scientific topics are to be found on your homepage nowadays, looks like a regular gliding club homepage, not even a picture of your LS11 in it ;( - Sorry to say that. I guess your "Alter Herr" Siegfried Piontkowski who flew the LS11 in 2005 for the first time was resposible for the pdf´s because he wrote the Article about AoA-strings in "Segelfliegen" magazine 2-2009, which is basically the article DG-Aviation uses in their knowledge base (only with scrappy images), but DG has an english translation. Sorry Tim once again external links to be checked: The DG-Aviation AoA-string article in english: www.dg-aviation.de/en/library/side-string?noredirect=en-US The original german article (better image quality): web.archive.org/web/20150611051830/www.sgoberaargau.ch/cms2/uploads/media/Seitenfaden.pdf
If you're flying straight they should be lined up :O also be aware my gopro is off to the side a bit, which can make them look a bit offset. But they shouldn't be :)
But what about all the extra drag the second yaw string generates?!? ;-) I think most glider pilots are too conservative to seriously consider using two yaw-strings though
Former champion George Moffat said when he was flying his standard Cirrus in a thermal he would turn with a 5 degree slip. Is this a practice used today?
He realized, perhaps without knowing it, that typically-mounted yaw strings lie! Keeping the string centered in a turn of any significance, as mounted at the forward edge of the canopy, is *not* coordinated flight. Why? The perfect circular turn acts though the center of gravity which is located generally about 1/3 of the way aft of the wing's leading edge and, of course, on the center line of the fuselage. A string above the CG at this point would trail straight back, tangent to this circle. (Wings stick out with the inner pointed directly at the center of the turn). [It's really easy to draw the following on a piece of paper, but I'll try with words ...] Suppose the fuselage is a snake and the snake curves to match the circle formed by the turn. No matter how long the snake-fuselage is, its nose is head-on to the wind and a yaw string there would reflect that. Now straighten the snake. The relative wind over the nose is no longer aligned with the nose! The string swings outward as if we're in a slip, but we're not. A sensitive slip/skid indicator is always right and the discrepancy will show. Or, add a second string over the rear cockpit of a two-seater. They won't agree! So, all Moffat was doing was flying coordinated turns even though the yaw string was indicating a slip. Once attuned, you'll find countless soaring videos of experienced pilots doing, probably unconsciously, the same thing.
Why using yaw strings when you can place a small duck in top of the instrument panel to determine the center line🤪 Pros: No drag! More pros: it's a duck!
I thought well its all a bit good but slight overkill with *that* many strings THEN he did the spin Briefly (the strings don't lie) the airflow over the wing was *REVERSED* Maybe the theoretical lads knew this but I have *never* heard or seen that noted before.
Am I the only person just ever so slightly irritated by the full hand on the canopy (multiple times)? Keep your greasy hands off of your view on the world ;) The multiple strings is ingenious though. Never considered it but it makes sense. Also, what tape do you use? My club uses simple white linnen tape which holds well, but leaves a mess and a splotch of non transparent material in your view. Your transparent tape looks very clean and tidy.
Haha I have a canopy cleaning cloth with me at all times. The tape is plastic insulation tape in white. It's one I have made, and I'm testing out a transparent one very soon that should cope with cold temperatures better... Stay tuned!
After trying - I will rate it as Genius!
I recently added 2 yaw strings after watching this to my glider and it is so much better. Had an old yaw string that was probably mounted too high. Mounted a Mark IV yaw string according to directions with a smaller yaw string from Yaw String just below it and it works better and is easier to see, especially in the peripheral vision and my big surprise was how much more sensitive the indications were. Found that I was likely over powering the rudder. I would recommend this for any glider owner/pilot.
Excellent, glad it helped! Eventually the trend will catch on :)
real reason: If the battery dies from the first string, you always have a backup.
Exactly right :)
There aren't many gliders in which pilots sit side by side, but I did have a couple of hours in a Stemme in British Columbia a few years ago. I was irritated and considerably handicapped by not sitting on the centreline and not being able to judge the angle of dangle, because of having to view the yaw string off to the side or very much in peripheral vision. Your idea of using two is the perfect solution for a side by side cockpit.
Yeah that makes perfect sense, although I'm not sure how accurate it would be if they are not in the center of the curve of the canopy?
I don't mean side by side yaw strings in front of each pilot - no thats not going to work, there's a lateral component of the air flow off of the canopy centreline of course. I just mean the double string as you suggest, on the airplane centre, and as you point out , they line up with each other without trying to reference anything else.
I had never seen it before, but as soon as I did I thought it was a smart move. For me it was in case one fell off during flight, but the alignment factor is also a great reason.
The only thing you're missing is a side-string (seitenfaden), to optimize the AOA in various conditions.
I was just thinking that too. One each side of course
@@PureGlide I actually was thinking of a string on the top left and top right so I can look in the direction of the thermal and get yaw information and pitch information. Gonna try it.
Then I'm going to cover my canopy in strings. More information, the better 🥴😂
But seriously I think I'm going to try the corners nearly overhead for those tight thermals, and being able to see yaw and AOA.
Yes. Give the side strings a try. Set up some tape markers for: Stall speed, speed of best glide and speed of lowest sink.
Lol I wrote the Same🛩️
Nice to See there are already some more Guys using AoA!
@@TheSoaringChannel Does Not Work because AoA and yaw would both effect on your "yaw Side middle String" and you wouldnt bei able to See one of both informations...
I suggest to usw a real yaw String + 1 or 2 AoA strings.
I appreciate yaw explanation 😎
YAWn 🥱
But think of all the extra drag of the second string!... :)
OMG I’ll have to switch to internal strings
@@PureGlide electronic yaw string?
@@tomeraltman7491 It seems so obvious now you say it!
@@PureGlide I have come to find that a yaw string on the air vent is most useful.
Got it... Two be plumb crazy! I like it!
Maybe this will set a trend :)
@@PureGlide I'm going to put two on my Mooney! I've learned allot from you glider guys. Biggest takeaway I've learned... If you have a head wind at altitude. Drop down and stay in contact with the bottom of the clouds... chop is good. Flying west in the US at altitude FL-18 we have predominant headwinds in access of 70 knots... On a 457 NM run, fuel burn is normally 44 gallons... changing style of flying same flight staying in contact with the clouds only cost 30 minutes and burned only 30 gallons of fuel. I do the reciprocal east flight at altitude... Trim the fuel to 10.5 GPH, True AS 120, GS = 190 ~ 200 Kts... Lots of fun and very efficient fuel management! Much different flying than I've ever done... I'm getting comfortable with working with the mountains and loving the views. Wish I had learned to be a glider pilot before transitioning to fueled propulsion. You and Bruno are the two guys I watch... Thank you for your channel! The heard is learning!
Two it is then. Works for me and great logic.
Perfect!
Genius! Thanks for sharing :)
You're welcome!
Bloody Ingenious!
Thanks mate!
I’m not sure the cows have “heard” about the yaw string controversy 😂🤣🛫🌬🐄🐮
lol I see what you did there
I'm sure yaw right.
@@lautoka63 YAWn at your puns
@@PureGlide No, yaw lagging in the pun stakes.
They don't have yaw strings, but some have rUdders...
Two for sure. I'm a lawyer and for 10+ years I've used 3 VDUs for my desktop PC. Folks are always curious why. The main reason is it's easier than one when needing to read/ compare multiple documents, something we do all the time. It may look funky but if it works, happy days. Besides, no self respecting yachtsman would set sail with only one telltale on his jib.
Yeah well said! Cheers
Is that the silky smooth panning of a new gimbal I see there at the start, Pure Glide?!?
It is! Although I’ve had it for ages and use it often, it’s just it’s all so smooth you’ve never noticed :O
Two makes good sense, going to try it :)
Am currently using an AOA-string.
Yeah worth trying! I don't hate it yet :)
I was going to ask about that! I'll have to try that after I get the Discus's older brother (Standard Cirrus) restored. I'll probably try it on a club glider. And those cows seem to like you.
Yeah cows are so friendly and curious. Great until they start eating your glider. Seriously a number of fabric gliders have landed out and returned to find cows eating them
@@PureGlide Yeah , reminds me of the tales old and not so old barnstormer pilots used to tell of landing out in the boonies in their fabric covered ships , and when returning after going off for assistance , found the cows making a meal of the doped fabric skin . Evidently they like the taste of that dope !
Cool I like it too . Are the strings lined up or offset a little ? How about some clear tape on the in side with marks on it like a coordinator ball indicator works .thanks for the vids 👍
That's a good idea! should be lined up :)
Yaw second string should be connected to the SOYP's 😅 And, I think your lookout is gonna suffer with all that string in the way.😎 I had to check the date then incase April had snuck up 😆
All I heard was more strings needed :)
Two yaw strings does make sense. ✔️✔️
Now how about a grid of 4 x 20 strings on each wing to make sure that the airflow is laminar? 😃
I like the way you're thinking :)
@@PureGlide Thanks Mate. :-)
I seen that in the last video & was wondering to myself how long is a piece of string? Double or nothing?
Exactly!
Do you get a few extra Londees if you use cotton thread rather than a whole sheep?
lol maybe
What do you think about side string / AoA string!?
Never tried one! I’m not sure I’d be looking at the bottom sides of my canopy while I’m flying, but can’t knock it until I try it
@@PureGlide It can really help when thermaling (especially in turbulent air or at steep turn angles).
A working AoA String needs 2 markings:
1. Stall
2. best L/D
Maybe you can try it out If you want.
How do you figure out where they go?!
@@PureGlide They should have a length between 25 - 30 cm and sit 5cm above the frame of your canopy. Calibrate them in unballasted flight with flap setting 0°. Prepare some tape markers. Fly close to stall speed and set the top marker. After that fly speed for lowest sink and best glide and tape the markers. After landing u can tape some thin lines instead of the markers. They also tell u about correct flap setting and it does not matter if your glider is ballasted or not. I do not look at them i just subconsciously recognize them :)
Very good for winch launches too by the way.
Example: ua-cam.com/video/JQkXw0u78CY/v-deo.html
@@eisenhans9 On your old homepage (2017) you had a dedicated topic about AoA-Strings "Alles hängt am Seit(den)enfaden -- NEUE Version --".
Unfortunately it is only available in the wayback machine, without the pdf´s, because your homepage changed a lot.
The - Akaflieg Köln - Wayback machine link is still in the german Wiki-article "Faden (Segelflug)"
No scientific topics are to be found on your homepage nowadays, looks like a regular gliding club homepage, not even a picture of your LS11 in it ;( - Sorry to say that.
I guess your "Alter Herr" Siegfried Piontkowski who flew the LS11 in 2005 for the first time was resposible for the pdf´s because he wrote the Article about AoA-strings in
"Segelfliegen" magazine 2-2009, which is basically the article DG-Aviation uses in their knowledge base (only with scrappy images), but DG has an english translation.
Sorry Tim once again external links to be checked:
The DG-Aviation AoA-string article in english: www.dg-aviation.de/en/library/side-string?noredirect=en-US
The original german article (better image quality): web.archive.org/web/20150611051830/www.sgoberaargau.ch/cms2/uploads/media/Seitenfaden.pdf
Hi Tim
Hi Tom
Why are they offset as opposed to being one above/below the other? Thanks!
If you're flying straight they should be lined up :O also be aware my gopro is off to the side a bit, which can make them look a bit offset. But they shouldn't be :)
But what about all the extra drag the second yaw string generates?!? ;-)
I think most glider pilots are too conservative to seriously consider using two yaw-strings though
True think of the drag!
How about making the top one shorter?
Yeah you could!
So, basically one line with a cut in the middle.
Yeah and an extra bit of tape
Former champion George Moffat said when he was flying his standard Cirrus in a thermal he would turn with a 5 degree slip. Is this a practice used today?
Yeah often is, I try and have a bit of slip on.
I tried it the other day and it felt great. Was able to center the ailerons and reduce elevator and get a few more in the climb.
@@TheSoaringChannel excellent! Good to hear some positive feedback about it, so I don't look like a complete nitwit :)
He realized, perhaps without knowing it, that typically-mounted yaw strings lie! Keeping the string centered in a turn of any significance, as mounted at the forward edge of the canopy, is *not* coordinated flight. Why? The perfect circular turn acts though the center of gravity which is located generally about 1/3 of the way aft of the wing's leading edge and, of course, on the center line of the fuselage. A string above the CG at this point would trail straight back, tangent to this circle. (Wings stick out with the inner pointed directly at the center of the turn). [It's really easy to draw the following on a piece of paper, but I'll try with words ...] Suppose the fuselage is a snake and the snake curves to match the circle formed by the turn. No matter how long the snake-fuselage is, its nose is head-on to the wind and a yaw string there would reflect that. Now straighten the snake. The relative wind over the nose is no longer aligned with the nose! The string swings outward as if we're in a slip, but we're not. A sensitive slip/skid indicator is always right and the discrepancy will show. Or, add a second string over the rear cockpit of a two-seater. They won't agree! So, all Moffat was doing was flying coordinated turns even though the yaw string was indicating a slip. Once attuned, you'll find countless soaring videos of experienced pilots doing, probably unconsciously, the same thing.
@@jeffstetson4453 Thanks a lot, this explanation is really clear to me and really helped!
Cheers, lots of happy and safe flying!
Isn't there a more robust instrument available than one which relies on sticky tape?
What could be more secure than TWO bits of sticky tape?!
@@PureGlide A fixture built into the canopy?
Why using yaw strings when you can place a small duck in top of the instrument panel to determine the center line🤪
Pros: No drag!
More pros: it's a duck!
It seems so obvious now you mention it. Now I have to make another video...
@@PureGlide I got a headline for you!
*Is ducking better then fucking?* 🤣
Haha
🐄
Exactly :)
I thought well its all a bit good but slight overkill with *that* many strings
THEN he did the spin
Briefly (the strings don't lie) the airflow over the wing was *REVERSED*
Maybe the theoretical lads knew this but I have *never* heard or seen that noted before.
Am I the only person just ever so slightly irritated by the full hand on the canopy (multiple times)? Keep your greasy hands off of your view on the world ;)
The multiple strings is ingenious though. Never considered it but it makes sense.
Also, what tape do you use? My club uses simple white linnen tape which holds well, but leaves a mess and a splotch of non transparent material in your view. Your transparent tape looks very clean and tidy.
Haha I have a canopy cleaning cloth with me at all times. The tape is plastic insulation tape in white. It's one I have made, and I'm testing out a transparent one very soon that should cope with cold temperatures better... Stay tuned!