What's the Difference Between Commercial and Residential Blueprints?
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- Опубліковано 28 лют 2023
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When an electrician gets a job that needs to be built, how does that electrician know exactly WHAT they are building? Well, it usually because there are a set of drawings that shows them what to build! But what about residential vs commercial- is there a difference in those drawings? In todays episode of Electrician U, Dustin talks about the construction drawings and the nuances between Commercial and Residential.
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A residential set of drawings shows- yep, you guessed it, a house! Generally, these drawings are drawn by an Architect and are meant to convey what the overall house will look like. There will be multiple sheets but, more than likely, the sheets will all start with the letter A (standing for architectural). The bulk of the drawings for a residential project will be centered around what the house will LOOK LIKE. There will more than likely be an electrical sheet(s), but these electrical sheets are general in nature only. As the architect has had much training in designing the LOOKS, they don’t know all the ins and outs of the NEC. But the electrician does! So, while the electrical sheets for a residential project show generalities and maybe a few specific OWNER requirements, it is up to the installing electrician (and the company that they work for) to design the overall electrical system for the residence.
Commercial sets of drawings are much different and can vary in size from a dozen sheets on a smaller job to several hundred sheets (and more) on larger projects. The biggest difference between residential and commercial drawings is that the commercial drawings are drawn by ENGINEERS in lieu of an ARCHITECT. So the entire MEP (Mechanical, Electrical, Plumbing) set will have Engineers stamps if you look at the sheet. In the electrical sheets, everything is laid out exactly where the engineer believes it should be placed and what exactly the installing electrician is placing there. Not saying that we wont move things (even engineers are not perfect and cannot foresee every issue before we get there!!) if required, just that the intent is spelled out in much more detail for us.
A commercial set of drawings will also have all of the different facets of an electrical job spelled out in much greater detail. So, you will have lighting drawings, power drawings, a single line drawing (one that shows ALL the gear/panels/transformers/etc. with conduit and wire sizes- electrician just needs to adjust for errors, voltage drop, or changes), grounding, data, security, fire alarm, and other systems. Device placement on a commercial project shall be as shown on the drawings whereas on a residential project the installing electrician shall install per the NEC while keeping the architects design intent in mind.
There is a long ongoing battle vs electricians as to whom is actually better- residential or commercial. Commercial electricians think they are better than residential electricians as the projects are much larger, the materials are tougher and more diverse, and the projects are seen on a grander scale. Residential electricians believe that they are better than commercial electricians since everything is spelled out for the commercial electricians and that residential is left to figure things out on their own. We will save this discussion for another day, but just know that both divisions of the electrical trade have their ups and downs!
We hope this has been an insightful look into the differences between a residential set of drawings and a commercial set of drawings as well as what the installing electrician is responsible for. Is there a topic you would like to see discussed on Electrician U? Leave a comment in the comments section and let us know. Please continue to follow Dustin and Electrician U as we are constantly updating our content to assist our followers in becoming the best electricians that they can be.
#electrician #electrical #electricity #what's #the #difference #between #commercial #and #residential #blueprints
In my 20+ years in the trade I have only had 2 commericial jobs that actually had plans that were done by an engeneer. Everything else was done by an architect and they were rarely correct.
Right
i may be biased, but industrial electricians have to deal with much more complex systems and devices. you are correct on the code part for the most part. technically we need to know box and conduit fills, sometimes arc fault calculations, ect. but in exsisting industrial buildings inspections and code compliance is rarely enforced
Good stuff . I’ve been a electrician for 17 years never done residential. Thanks for showing this .
Where i live and work, we have "mill grids" where there is a distribution primary meter and the electrical grid beyond belongs to the lumber company. These lumber mills can have thousands of electric motors per transformer and with their own mini grid, they can put things like capacitors beyond the meter. I never thought of this until you mentioned it in the video, but these lumber mills actually save moneys this way and there is less pressure on the utility side to keep things stable
Same. Dustin is brilliant in the way he teaches new concepts.
Thanks brother, I swear I thought I was crazy at first, I started off after school doing commercial service and was lost and eventually was picking up on a lot and I made the switch to commercial construction and the amount of people who don't understand code astonished me. Good for me though
Nice thing on the commercial blueprints with electrical is when the panel sheets are missing/lost being able to reconstruct that sheet from the blueprints so long as there hasn't been too many changes in the internal systems
Incredibly interesting to hear you talk about how electricians with a different focus (construction vs service, resi vs commercial vs industrial) have different skills relating to code. I am beginning a powerline technician apprenticeship and was wondering if you have content on that, or a channel you like or work with where this sort of content is covered for power distribution? Thanks so much for what you’re doing for us rookies!
Project manager for a company that installs parking controls systems. I see a lot of plans for large developments. Been very intrigued by all the documentation that goes into construction. The plans, the details, the shop drawings. I’m often involved early on… like during the 30%, 60%, 90% etc. Sometimes I’m involved much too late and it’s inevitable that some rework needs to be done. Usually with embedded conduit in parking islands. Anyway-I enjoy your channel.
THIS! I'm an EE for a MEP design firm and I have a question for you here -
What can I do in my design that makes your job easier? Do you like circuits to start closer to the panel or further, or does it matter? What are some of the things you really hope to see included in plans, and what do you really wish we would not include, or would do a different way? Do you generally like it when every room has it's own line on the panel schedule for lights and receptacles, or do you not mind when we string together 2 or 3 rooms that are nearby if they only have a few receptacles in them?
Basically - when you see a drawing, what makes it easy for you do do your work, both in reading the drawing and doing the wiring itself, and what do you hope the engineer will NOT do as well?
Great video! I'm getting into Mechanical/Electrical in school ect. This video makes me think more long term for my career. I may choose residential just for the challenge. idk. we'll see. I figure, do the one that's hardest for myself now, so when I get the hang of that.. the other "commercial" plans will be a cake walk. But of course, this is a VERY naive approach. I'm starting to understand the big picture now. that's also helpful. Excellent video! I was asking myself for awhile when taking "Electrical 1", what's the difference between, residential and commercial. No longer a mystery! Thank you!
I've had a handful of solid plans from commercial projects. The majority of them I spent multiple hours sending out RFIs (Requeats for Information) to the Engineers and suggesting solutions to field problems and or code issues.
All the spec books we had always had the BS Disclaimer of "It's the E.C's responsibility to confirm all wire sizes, box fill, circuitry layout and perform all work according to national and local codes etc."
In other words edit and red-line the engineers work for them at our expense.
Wish I could copy this
Love to see when you drop a new video. Thank you for your work Dustin.
Great video Dustin . Very informative and to the point !
I’m in the high end luxury market in so cal. The resi plans always have panel schedule and line drawings but it’s so competitive that no one follows them accurately. Plus most homes have a lighting control system which completely changes all the lighting wiring.
Thank you so much for sherring all your knowledge and how to read plans very appreciate it
Thanks, Dustin!
Please do a dummies for blueprints video
From mechanical engineers we get "Field Verify" clouds around a lot of stuff, sometimes entire plans. We call these "fuck-it bubbles" because they don't know if we'll be able to do it as they think it should go in and we have to figure it out and cut sprinklers out of the way (it's always the sprinkler guys that put their stuff in the way) to get our stuff in.
Thanks for sharing it with us
Thank you!
You always present good information to learn from.
Awesome video man. Thanks this was so informative. Iv recently become a j man but I feel like there is so much to learn. Thanks for putting out such helpful content
I would also be interested in load testing video. I know there are meters that exist you can leave them for a month or a week and it will log amps over time. But it would be great to see how specifically the professionals do it. Another commentor asked about load testing
Thank you Dustin. I've been watching you for years. You always bring excellent content.
2 years in industrial then went to commercial for the last 2 years. I can absolutely say that commercial engineers cannot be trusted more than kindergartners to map out circuitry. Last job I was on, they daisy chained every single receptacle on the floor together, and had leader lines coming out for different circuits. Someone forgot to separate the lines, so we had no way of knowing where one circuit ended and the new one started. Went to the panel schedule for some clues, "conference room" "kitchen" "managers office" gave us no indication, as there were multiple circuits spanned across large sections for each area. Oh yeah, they also forgot the difference between east and west in their lighting notes... So we installed all the lights in place per the rcp, but used the panels and circuits we had already piped to and redlined the entire lighting schematic. Every lighting panel was flip flopped from east side to west side. They are not all professionals
Forgot to add, the reason they got east and west wrong was because someone else decided it was better to draw the entire print with South facing up. Their own people must have missed it, and I know all the trades including ours had at least one episode of scratching their heads, wandering around the opposite side of the floor searching for their references
Sounds like someone fresh out of school... from Australia
You should do a video on industrial electricians and what they do
I laughed out loud when he said commercial prints are always accurate.
Prescriptive design vs Performance design. For the residential design, we use the Residential Code such as IRC. Most code books are prescriptive in nature. Every table you go to is a prescribed table for example wire sizing, wire types, location, and conditions, temp rating, etc. Code paragraph [R610.1.3] is a prescribed code. You do not need calculations by a professional engineer to preform that task as long as you follow that code.
This is all prescriptive design. You can design a residential, new home, ADU, addition, etc without using an Architect or Professional Engineer. As long as you do not go out of the scope of the residential code, no stamps are required.
Now when we design a residential dwelling unit, we are not required to submit an electrical, mechanical, or plumbing plan. So we generally include them in the floor plan. Not an electrical plan but a general lighting plan, pretty much to get a rough box count for permit charges. And yes we do not line-connect lights to light switches or trace out circuits. I simply make the plan unreadable
The lighting plan should follow basic 6'-12", 2 kitchen circuits, GFCI, and AFCI. dedicated outlets, clearance near the shower, in front of service panels, and sub-panels in combustible areas. I have a plan checklist 100 pages long. For plumbing, we show the type and locations of fixtures. For Mechanical we show fart-fans, HVAC units, etc.
I have been a GC and a Residential designer for almost 40 years. I am required to place service equipment in approved locations, with approved clearances. We do know codes, and code navigation. I am responsible for Site-plan, floor plan, elevations & sectional, foundation plan, framing plan, roof framing plan, roof plan, Details, (BMP)Best Management Plan, (LID)Low Impact Development plan, and Title-24 Energy calc and Notes and Tables. All of these plans are submitted through professional plan checkers.
When it comes down to it, the approved plans are designed for 3 entities, the designer, the building department, and the tradesmen building it (not the owner). We all expect everyone involved to be professionals in their field. Residential construction has always been "As Built" with everything but structural.
I should not tell a plumber in my plans how to connect the waste lines. I should not tell the electrician how to run a circuit or size the wire or how to makeup boxes. We expect you to be the expert.
This got me thinking about the requirements to balance loads across residential split phase service; is it important to do this? If so, would you consider doing a video going into those details?
Hey man is there anyway you can do videos on Industrial work? PLCs, Drives and everything else in that category?
@@IWishIWasAloneOnAMountain i undertand that but this guy is so intelligent that he can teach the basics of plc and motor controls. Don’t really need to be there physically although it would be nice
There are many videos on the very basics of PLC controls. That stuff in my mind is better learned on the job.
There’s a lot of channels like real pars and the engineering mindset that I learned a lot about plc programming and drives I definitely recommend checking them out
Hey, Electrician U, you should gives us tour of all your Electrical Books.
Great video!
Can you do a video showing how to read the electrical constitution drawing for residential and commercial
I am a retired Electrical PE having designed over 300 commercial and industrial projects. Signed thousands of E sheets. Those residential plans would not get a permit in Florida and the architect would be disciplined by the Board. Current problem I had was getting the contractor to follow my plans, many can't read English and simply do what they were taught. I always enjoyed a contractor saying they've been doing something that way for years and I get to make them redo it to current Code and the permitted design drawings.
AWESOMEE VIDEO
I am a PLC programmer and maintenance electrician and I don’t use much code I stay with osha standards and let it fly
Do you really follow osha to the T though? Most people I have worked with don't. When you have the electrical cabinet open and you're programming a plc do you have any arc flash gear on?
I always tell every apprentice a good electrician can do all aspects of electrical that’s industrial,commercial and residential if you know all three then you are in my mind a electrician. Residential plans get crazy when it’s a 10,000 sq foot house and there’s multiple panels and smart panels.
Can you show us how you do a load test in a commercial building so that you could know if the service wires will be need to be updated?
I would also be interested in load testing. I know there are meters that exist you can leave them for a month or a week and it will log amps over time. But it would be great to see how specifically the professionals do it.
I definitely will say, commercial prints, are almost NEVER spot on! Done many commercial and resi work, resi has been more correct. Commercial layout changes daily! Especially when the new 'stamped', updated plans have not been brought to light, until later in job! 😡😡
yeah I've worked a few industrial jobs, and it seemed like every week was a new change to the plans.
They need to get with the times and put a QR code on the plans so you can easily and at any time scan and get the updated plans.
@@FishFind3000 yeah but that means posting the plans in a publicly accessible place, sense a QR code is really just a url. Most customers don't want their plans available to just anyone. Most of the time we get the CAD shared in like Dropbox, so we can see the revisions, but thats assuming the enginner remembered to put it in Dropbox and not saved locally to their computer. I've had that happen a few times, lol.
No kidding, GC "why are you running wire there"
Me " it's what the plans call for"
GC "what revision are you working from"
Me "11"
GC "HAHAHA were on 14"
Me "FUCK"
@Tw1steD247
Man, I feel ya!!!!
Fuckers always did that shit to me!
We'd be like w t f! Already ran homies to the circs.
I'm like fuck it.... JUNCTION THAT SHIT IN THE CEILING ABOVE! Ain't ripping it all out and running half across the fucking store again!
Hey Dustin, always a good day when you put up a new video. Thanks Brother.
I want to let you and other people out there doing what we've been doing most of our lives, I've been an electrician and in the trade almost 35 years now, more than half my life.
I was a commercial industrial journeyman in the IBEW for just over 16 years. The other years I did both residential and commercial work.
You are correct about drawings and the differences between types of building and the accuracy or lack of. But, even with large commercial jobs there are some engineers that will draw certain parts of a plan, that absolutely is not correct or they will have a note on that page that basically says for the electricians to figure it out.
It usually is some strange part of the building where we need to install an outlet or lighting but the design of the structure is very complicated where a pillar is against an exterior wall and we have to come up or down through the floor pan where all these beams and building steel and we gotta get a piece of conduit through. There are plenty of times when we'd be at the gangbox plan desk or in the trailer trying to exlpain to the boss that the drawings suck and how do these guys draw plans and have no clue as to what it is going to take to make it work.
I've always said that architects and engineers should mandatory work a minimum of two years in the field before they can graduate with a degree.
But aside from those problems, commercial drawings are extraordinarily precise. Down to the smallest details and to the 64th of an inch or tighter.
Commercial plans are thousands of pages sometimes for large jobs like multi building campuses, or for a 40 or 50 story highrise, or a mall or professional sports stadium or hospitals which I've worked on all of those and more.
What's the best way to figure out your conduit runs on a gound up
I commercial job.
Power factor is not about wasting power. Your stuff works. The only concern about power factor is from the Utility company. The reason I’d the meter reads Volts, Amps, VA, and Watts. Since power factor is the difference between VA and Watts, and you pay for Watt hours, the Utility is not getting paid for 100% of your real usage. So, they charge a power factor fee to get their money. If you install capacitors to improve power factor, your bill will increase, and the separate power factor charge will go away. Companies will pay for their usage one way or another.
Good
does delta have more consistent phase voltage?
And the building electrical inspector has to know state amendments to the NEC code, also the inspector will know current utility code NEC ,state, utility, local municipality codes
You become an expert in code about 5 years of continuous, comprehensive field inspections
How can I learn this? Interested in learning more about residential
Interesting information but it would have been nice if you would have actually showed the commercial plan like you did the residential plan
LMAO
Accurate commercial plans?
We spend more time re engineering commercial plans with pretty major oversights.
Residential, on the other hand, we have to field design. Even multi million dollar homes. Main difference, it's a little easier to engineer a set the way it will work, than explain why a commercial won't work.
Don't get me wrong, every once in a while you'll get a golden print in commercial, but it's not been common in my area
Okay... your point being...
@@Rin-xy4tt that Dustin doesn’t know what he’s talking about once again…
@@FishFind3000 My question still stands...
@@Rin-xy4tt So does my response, this isn't the first time Dustin has been talking nonsense.
In resi, there is usually one electrical panel and that's not the case I'm commercial. Big difference!!
Depends on the houses. We do custom homes in Kiawah that have minimum 400 Amp service with generators, sub panels, pool panels etc. It's really neat the amount of stuff people have come up with to put in a house.
When you were starting out with blueprints: Did you expect residential to be accurate and had to come to terms with the guesswork, or did you appreciate the wiggle room to do what is more in your wheelhouse than the architect?
Topic:
In what situations do you step back and crow, "Man! I'm so glad I'm an electrician!"?
And the flip. When do you just want to scream?
Comercial are always accurate!? Not where I have been doing commercial work for the last 20+ yrs
The commercial job we are on the plans were a joke we ended using it as a guideline
which pays better, commercial or residential ?
commercial
we are a small shop. residential tends to be alot better about pay at the end. i don' want to hear all the reasons. i have already heard them from former companies. thank you very much. to many haircuts. alot of companies pay 30, 60, 90, never. homeowners pay on completion. just sayin. 78 years talking there. raz
Must electrical engineers don't know the residental codes its not a college requirement, so building electrical engineers have to take NEC code classes on their own time , the actual experts in code are the building electrical inspector he or she is paid to know the code based on NEC made by NFPA 70
Neither one is better than the other. It’s relevant to what needs to get done lol.
Did you say ALWAYS accurate?
Architechs out here being roasted by this guy XD
My experience as a commercial electrician includes multistory residential buildings as well as large commercial projects such as medical facilities, production facilities, offices, and warehouses. So I'm a bit biased but I feel like we have to have a bit more knowledge than someone only wiring houses, even if it is a large house.
Also, if you do design build work then the foreman typically has a lot of input on how the job gets built. You definitely need to know your shit
"Laughs in controls Electrician"
That's because 01>06
I'm a general maintenance Tech and allow the electrical that you've explained has helped me a lot and the job that I do so thank you
Lol prints accurate hahaha I have never had a good electrical print. They actually keep getting worse
Commercial plans are always accurate 😂😂😂😂
In commercial they change weekly 🙄
It sucks all your fitted t shirt merchandise always sold out
you should have shown an example on the commercial plan, you got alittle off track talking.
Hey there Dustin, I just sent you an email.. I am looking for installers for some grocery store lighting in Texas, San Antonio, houston, all ready to go.. we need to double down on some installs. Lighting is in house. CAN YOU HELP ME ? PLEASE
Ive seen some realllllly fucked up commercial blueprints
I have a question with the table 210-24. Could you make a video about this table and explain what the word taps refers to?