Dreamscience tuned 265bhp Mk8 Ford Fiesta ST review!

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  • Опубліковано 13 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 148

  • @qEnergize
    @qEnergize 4 роки тому +28

    This car is all you'd ever need on a twisty B-road. Love it!

  • @SamFullick
    @SamFullick 4 роки тому +4

    My mk8 is a very similar spec to this , I’ve got TRS stage 1 with overrun mapped to 3 seconds, it’s a bit antisocial, but can be turned off with a push of a button if you don’t fancy pissing everyone off! Wicked cars these are , and made even better with a tune

    • @chirpywiggins5796
      @chirpywiggins5796 3 роки тому

      I hear good things about TRS! Reluctant to do it on my MK8 as still have warranty remaining and it’s on PCP 😢

    • @SamFullick
      @SamFullick 3 роки тому

      @@chirpywiggins5796 same situation as most people that tune these cars! With TRS you can reset the tune back to stock in 3 minutes, with no evidence that it’s been done. I’m comfortable with it, I’ve had it for 9 months and no reliability issues. I’d say go for it.

    • @11jeopardy11
      @11jeopardy11 Рік тому

      Temped to get my st mapped, did you have any issues over the years with the gearbox or anything?

    • @SamFullick
      @SamFullick Рік тому +1

      @@11jeopardy11no issues in my ownership, but my car was pretty new back then and i sold it long ago! Had 7 more since then but I’m sure it’s still alive

  • @H-4-D3423
    @H-4-D3423 4 роки тому +4

    The pick up in the MK8 ST is helped massively by 3 the cylinder design. What I say next will sound a bit crazy. I owned a 6 month old ZX10R Superbike, and whilst I did - my car had to be downgraded to a Citroen C1. Whilst that car didn't ever qualify as being quick of course, the difference in acceleration you get because of pushing one less cylinder is remarkable. Until you experience the difference, it's hard to explain what is so good about it. I'm in no way shocked to hear the FST8 is so quick on the uptake. The engine will be lighter, and increasing the inertia of 3 cylinders takes less effort than 4.

    • @loneokami6560
      @loneokami6560 Рік тому +1

      I have an C1, immagine an VTS version of that, 3 doors only little turbo 100/120 hp, would have been so fun

  • @Roadwarrior92
    @Roadwarrior92 4 роки тому +14

    I think I prefer the look's of this compared to a mk7. Especially in this colour

    • @Roadwarrior92
      @Roadwarrior92 4 роки тому +2

      @@CarFocused yeah the rear of the mk7 didn't look that great to me. The interior is so much nicer too.

    • @HeliumFreak
      @HeliumFreak 4 роки тому +1

      This is the same colour as my mk8 👌 I think it's the best one

    • @Snippetswork
      @Snippetswork 4 роки тому +1

      Cant agree on that one, I have the MK7 in this colour and had them side by side🤷‍♂️

    • @rh6777
      @rh6777 4 роки тому

      @@HeliumFreak same 👌👌👌

  • @deniedpilot8628
    @deniedpilot8628 2 роки тому +1

    I have said in other mk8 videos I’ve watched…Ford did us a disservice by not bringing this on to us in the states. I have a mk7 and I would absolutely love one of these, along with the option of the 2 door. They are much more refined and more factory power options and modes.

    • @CarFocused
      @CarFocused  2 роки тому

      It’s a real shame - I guess sales of the Mk7 just weren’t high enough to justify carrying on with it in the US?

  • @chirpywiggins5796
    @chirpywiggins5796 4 роки тому +1

    Will tune mine after warranty runs out in 2 years. Crazy to do so before hand

  • @adambeaver1749
    @adambeaver1749 4 роки тому +2

    Hiya bud....I can't believe how awesome these sound!! Love it! Loved my old Fiesta ST MP215....still regret selling it at times! Great vid again mate! Hopefully out in a MK3 RS in a day or two

  • @tomreid1746
    @tomreid1746 4 роки тому +3

    Great car and it makes a great noise, apart from the excessive artificial crackles!

  • @nickrendell4300
    @nickrendell4300 4 роки тому +1

    Nice fiesta ST, nice just subtle mods give it that great performance and no silly unnecessary loud exhaust👍🤟👏😀

  • @maddoxgaming8310
    @maddoxgaming8310 4 роки тому +2

    The MK8 Fiesta ST is really underrated

    • @richboy900
      @richboy900 3 роки тому +1

      It's funny, I kind of hated it following the mk7 st and for being a 3 cylinder. A few years later, and I'm considering buying one 🤷‍♂️😂

  • @KyTaundry
    @KyTaundry 4 роки тому

    Enjoyed this mate great video, got one of these same colour running the same sort've power only I've got the LSD quite a bit of other hardware so it's ace to see you having such a blast without all the extras!

  • @monraypretorius3585
    @monraypretorius3585 4 роки тому +2

    This sounds seriously close to the Mk3 Focus RS. Alot more pops and bangs but still a good sound. Really sad these never made it to South Africa.

    • @Buffalohump77
      @Buffalohump77 4 роки тому

      Tell me about it... sub-standard fuel quality to blame apparently!

  • @scottbower8351
    @scottbower8351 4 роки тому +1

    Some great b roads near and around Hornsea bud, the roads from there to Withernsea is brilliant and that crest has caught me a couple of times next to that farm in Long riston haha

  • @proracer4ever
    @proracer4ever 7 місяців тому +1

    We got a dreamscience stage 1 map on our car, it is efficient and drives well but boost levels are way to high to be safe if you ask me... Mapped it boosts up to a max of 1.9 Bar, wich is way to much for these engines... I dont even get how the tiny turbo even gets to that level but yhea...

  • @SmDWeed
    @SmDWeed Місяць тому

    How are these 3 cylinder 1.5 engines in comparison to the 4 cylinder 1.6 when it comes to tuning capacity and longtivity?

  • @leonmason77
    @leonmason77 4 роки тому

    My Mk8 ST had a Revo map and I was running at 260bhp and 4th gear was mega! I’ve now got a Mk4 Focus ST and a Dreamscience Ultima+ map and I love it! Just a shame my steering failed twice in the car and I told Ford they can get me a new one, so I’ve got my brand new ST coming next week. Hoping it’ll be more reliable!

    • @leonmason77
      @leonmason77 4 роки тому

      Car Focused It hasn’t been easy and I had to send the Ford UK CEO an email highlighting the fact I had to reject my Mk8 Fiesta ST previously and now again with the Focus! Where Ford fall down is build quality. Emotive driving experience, but I have so many issues and it’s certainly made question buying another new Ford in the future!

    • @steeldevil98
      @steeldevil98 4 роки тому +1

      @@leonmason77 i used to be a ford guy through and through until i had a warranty claim on a focus. I won't go into detail as its s long story but they lied several times to my face thinking i knew nothing about cars. Got it sorted in the end but it was a 4 month battle with the dealer. Then there is this 1.0 ecoboom fiasco with multiple design flaws leaving customers with huge bills for dead engines.
      I'll never own another ford, awful company.

    • @leonmason77
      @leonmason77 4 роки тому

      steeldevil98 my brand new replacement has paint issues, and by paint issues I mean they haven’t sprayed the boot properly! Another email to the Ford CEO with me asking if quality control is even a thing at Ford. I’m keeping this car for another 2 years, then I’m handing out back and I’m done with Ford. Awful company!

  • @philbaillie7665
    @philbaillie7665 4 роки тому

    Great video and shows what these cars are all about. Dreamscience is the way I’m going to go, just waiting for a sale.

  • @simontaylor3211
    @simontaylor3211 4 роки тому

    Great review mate. Looked a blast 👍

  • @34A1A
    @34A1A 4 роки тому +8

    I miss the LSD day's... We are talking about the same thing right 😂

    • @mark-1rc502
      @mark-1rc502 4 роки тому +1

      Yeah i used to love a nice trip 🤩.
      We are I e

  • @LunaTempesta
    @LunaTempesta 4 роки тому +3

    Happy MK8 ST3 owner here. Still driving stock, but car is nippy enough to make it a blast for everyday driving and the fun weekend rides. Very interested in feeling the difference between stock and a stage 1 or stage 2 map. If anyone happens to drive one tuned in the Netherlands, hit me up :D

    • @chirpywiggins5796
      @chirpywiggins5796 3 роки тому

      Mine is still stock as well! A stage 2 tune would be good but not whilst I still have my Ford warranty, that would quite risky. Like you said though it’s plenty quick enough for most folk as stock .

    • @TrickAgario
      @TrickAgario 11 місяців тому

      Laatst ook de fiesta st3 gekocht. Heb je toevallig tips of leuke accesoires of iets wat goed is voor de auto en waar je op moet letten?

    • @LunaTempesta
      @LunaTempesta 9 місяців тому

      @@TrickAgario 3 jaar later en ik rijd nog steeds stock :-) - Ik heb ook geen echte problemen gehad met de auto dus ver.
      Kan alleen maar zeggen dat het een erg betrouwbare daily is, waar je ook plezier mee kan hebben door wat extra gas te geven.

    • @karllelliott681
      @karllelliott681 Місяць тому

      @@TrickAgario For me I rate the Mountune short shifter and brake discs & pads (EBC I think). After that a set of (Goodridge) braided hoses to improve braking feel further. I would start there. I haven't added a tune to mine as I think (for me) there is just no need as it really is great as it is!

  • @101francis101
    @101francis101 4 роки тому +3

    Not much point in the decat if it’s still got the gpf filter. Good to see that cars are still nicely tuneable despite those blasted particulate filters.

    • @kd2833
      @kd2833 2 роки тому

      gpf is good for 290 hp doenst matter less cancer so keep it

  • @stonermountain9147
    @stonermountain9147 4 роки тому

    Bro I was enjoying your RS passenger side video man. Suddenly midway its gone. What the heck man.

  • @menamestom
    @menamestom 4 роки тому +2

    I’m wondering whether I should move to one of these from a Mk3.5 Focus ST. Hmm.

  • @FordPerformanceManiac
    @FordPerformanceManiac 2 роки тому

    Ι just got subscribed. I love ur reviews . Real and to the point . Salute from Greece

  • @harleyduffy4492
    @harleyduffy4492 4 роки тому +1

    As a MK 7.5 ST owner and generally speaking I do have to say I really don't like the look of it with the shape and outside look and interior seems to look not so great again either ... but perfromace and sound wise sounds pretty gnarly and cool, better than a stock MK 7 for sure. Not sure about that sort of power being pumped out though through a small engine and a cylinder less ...

    • @daryvasiljkovic7628
      @daryvasiljkovic7628 4 роки тому +4

      dinosaur thinking just like when 20 years ago the V8 people were criticising 4 and 6 cylinders but a 4 and 6 can make just as much power it's 2020 and 3 cylinders are replacing 4 cylinders

    • @kd2833
      @kd2833 2 роки тому +1

      Interior 10x better then the crack plastic of the mk7. 3 or 4 cil does not matter bigger pistons 500cc vs 400cc

  • @LoftyVisions
    @LoftyVisions 4 роки тому

    Great video👍 Love the roads round that area. Used to live out that way and great fish and chips at Hornsea 😁

    • @CarFocused
      @CarFocused  4 роки тому +1

      I enjoyed my lunch at the chippy!haha

  • @chrisryanst
    @chrisryanst 4 роки тому +1

    Your grin says it all😁😁😁

  • @markpayne4067
    @markpayne4067 4 роки тому +1

    Seems a very good car. Would just prefer the mk2 rs as don't have to worry about losing money on value. I wander how well this fiesta will keep its value. Seen a few for around 15k.

  • @pauljamieson803
    @pauljamieson803 4 роки тому +1

    So question: I'm looking to get a dream science tune for my 2018 focus RS. In Canada though we do not run 99 octane the the highest octane you can find is about 95. I run 91 octane here as it's hard to find anything higher.
    Question is can I run the tune on 91 or will it just not work or will it damage my engine?

    • @eddy0803
      @eddy0803 4 роки тому +1

      In the US and Canada, you use PON or MON? 91 PON is the equivalent to our 95 RON. Therefore the 95 PON you get should be the same as our 99 RON. I could be wrong, it may be best to look it up yourself.

  • @CarObsession
    @CarObsession 4 роки тому

    Looks like a fun little car, but can't believe they've chosen a car without the diff.... Mind you, didn't the Scorpion car also lack the diff???

  • @CoyoteRoadRunner
    @CoyoteRoadRunner Рік тому

    how much boost? i run the overrun v3 map and i have 1.6bar boost. Stock is 1.4bar

  • @aldownsouth8355
    @aldownsouth8355 4 роки тому

    I love your channel. I like all the information you give everyone on the focus RS. Can you tell me if they sold the focus RS 2010 MK2 in the United States. I've looked all over the Internet and I cannot find any. I love that car.

    • @aldownsouth8355
      @aldownsouth8355 4 роки тому

      @@CarFocused I just watched Jay Leno's UA-cam video the car he had came from Mexico from a Mexican Ford dealer

    • @aldownsouth8355
      @aldownsouth8355 4 роки тому

      @@CarFocused unfortunately the car Jay Leno had can only be in United States for 6 months due to regulations

    • @aldownsouth8355
      @aldownsouth8355 4 роки тому

      @@CarFocused I had a Merkur xr4ti... So much fun to drive that car.

  • @ΔημητρηςΑγγ
    @ΔημητρηςΑγγ 4 роки тому

    Can you tell me which splitter do you wear??? It looks fantastic

  • @aldownsouth8355
    @aldownsouth8355 4 роки тому

    Does dreamscience do maps for the Ford mustang 3.7 v6...... Have you ever done a video on the mustang. V6 or V8

  • @suladensxiong3694
    @suladensxiong3694 4 роки тому

    I love the results Ive seen with Dreamscience. I live in the U.S with a 2016 RS. Is Dreamscience Imaps compatible with the U.S versions?

  • @billx4266
    @billx4266 3 роки тому +1

    What about reliability with that little engine?

  • @leonmason77
    @leonmason77 4 роки тому

    Jared, please hurry and get the Focus Mk4 ST overrun map out 😜

  • @andrewmarriott4033
    @andrewmarriott4033 4 роки тому

    Just a thought why did you not bring your rs back to scorpion if the exhaust is not quite right
    Love this fiesta thou great colour shame it was wet on your trip to the seaside hope you enjoyed the fish and chips 👍

  • @Ukgamer7724
    @Ukgamer7724 4 роки тому

    Is the train driver recruiting process hard as people say ?

  • @badusername4
    @badusername4 4 роки тому

    Got a question for ya... I see the 'rallyish' looking body styling kits on the fiesta st's about, don't look far off the focus rs mk3. They a different animal to drive or a great substitute?

    • @zsl0014
      @zsl0014 4 роки тому

      badusername4 I have a mk7 FiST and honestly it’s a lot of fun to drive, feel free to check out my Instagram for photos, @zachs_party_st on IG

  • @MB-sp7nc
    @MB-sp7nc 4 роки тому +1

    Sorry to hear you lost all your subscribers found out from road and race channel. Wasn't subscribed before but I am now!

    • @CarFocused
      @CarFocused  4 роки тому +1

      M B thank you, I’m hoping I can get them back, it’s pretty devastating 😢

  • @keithstapleton7805
    @keithstapleton7805 4 роки тому +1

    OMG those front seats look like a geography teachers tweed jacket.

    • @jdmbandits9406
      @jdmbandits9406 4 роки тому +2

      That’s why you buy the st3 💯

    • @nicoschmidtmayer5117
      @nicoschmidtmayer5117 Місяць тому

      The best seats i ever sat in im 6,4 and nothing can compare. Esparco and recaro is on top.

  • @DaveDVideoMaker
    @DaveDVideoMaker 4 роки тому

    How long is the 0-62 time?

  • @watfordfc0
    @watfordfc0 4 роки тому

    Great review !

  • @frederickthirry3336
    @frederickthirry3336 3 роки тому

    Anyone here who has removed the GPF filter and know what the gain in HP would be +/-? Thx

  • @bikie1280
    @bikie1280 4 роки тому

    Does the map cater for different ron types of petrol or does it only work with high octane fuel?

    • @dreamscience
      @dreamscience 4 роки тому +2

      There’s a 95 ton map on the iMap handset.

  • @mark-1rc502
    @mark-1rc502 4 роки тому

    Nice but it really needs that Limited slip diff

  • @micklawrence2630
    @micklawrence2630 4 роки тому

    Great vid Gary .....looked like a great car 👍🏼

  • @ibo1137
    @ibo1137 4 роки тому

    What tires are this running?

  • @Rafy_24
    @Rafy_24 4 роки тому

    These blokes from DS do know how to tune a car... Any numbers you can disclose beside the hp?? I've been looking for this one in particular...

    • @Rafy_24
      @Rafy_24 4 роки тому

      @@CarFocused Its does!!! Thank you for the great review!!

  • @180del
    @180del 3 роки тому

    I've had 4 new focus St's from 2008,one of each gen and face-lift apart from the new one,run a pick up now so slow but go anywhere is the game now lol,just traded in the wife's tt and ordered a puma st,hopefully will be half decent.

  • @matthouston2622
    @matthouston2622 4 роки тому

    Looks really good on that suspension/spacers 👍🏻

  • @michaelb9664
    @michaelb9664 4 роки тому

    Another top review mate 👍

  • @rh6777
    @rh6777 4 роки тому

    Been waiting for this one mate! 👌👌

  • @Tom-op5ox
    @Tom-op5ox 3 роки тому

    You do know you can flat shift in these from factory?

    • @CarFocused
      @CarFocused  3 роки тому

      I’m not sure actually - you can in the Focus ST but not sure about the Fiesta...

  • @HillJamie17
    @HillJamie17 3 роки тому

    Does a remap on these cars make them a lot faster in the real world? Or is it more of a ‘feels faster than what it is’ kind of thing?

    • @CarFocused
      @CarFocused  3 роки тому

      A mixture of both 😁

    • @chirpywiggins5796
      @chirpywiggins5796 3 роки тому

      So tempted to stage 1 but still have a years warranty and car is PCP I’ve read so much about it being risky and against finance agreement etc 😢 I’m guessing a lot of folk ignore this or most actually own the vehicle !

    • @HillJamie17
      @HillJamie17 3 роки тому

      @@chirpywiggins5796 I own mine but I still wouldn’t really want to risk my warranty, it does give you the peace of mind, I’d rather wait till the warranty expires

  • @andrewlewis2671
    @andrewlewis2671 3 роки тому

    How much for all this?

  • @sebwebb402
    @sebwebb402 Рік тому

    How reliable are these cars once taken to stage 1 & 2?

    • @sebwebb402
      @sebwebb402 Рік тому

      Can u drop a link to website

    • @CarFocused
      @CarFocused  Рік тому

      Link is in the video description pal 👍🏻

  • @boss32233
    @boss32233 4 роки тому +6

    That’s a lot of power for a 3 cylinder 1.5. Lots of extra wear and stress on the engine.

    • @alemiranda1105
      @alemiranda1105 4 роки тому +1

      Amg has a 2.0 4cyl with more than 400hp and no one say anything, what is the problem of a 3cyl 1.5 with only 265?

    • @boss32233
      @boss32233 4 роки тому +1

      Alejandro Miranda that’s tuned and tested by AMG - not an after market tuner...

  • @jozakroat
    @jozakroat 4 роки тому +3

    cars in general feel quicker in backroads

  • @michaelhesford5191
    @michaelhesford5191 4 роки тому +1

    Great colour great little car

    • @michaelhesford5191
      @michaelhesford5191 4 роки тому

      Car Focused my mum and dad have got the x edition and it’s such a great little car.. I’d love ago of the st 🤩

  • @jfett77
    @jfett77 4 роки тому

    Why have they not upgraded an st3. From the looks of this it doesn’t have the proper recaro seats and it doesn’t have the proper led headlights you find on an st3. Would love to know the reason they didn’t use the st3 platform. 🤯🧐🤔

    • @jfett77
      @jfett77 4 роки тому

      Car Focused very interesting mate. Thanks for the reply 👍

  • @pleasend
    @pleasend 4 роки тому

    Sounds fantastic, these are the back roads near where I live! Excellent on a dry day 😂

    • @pleasend
      @pleasend 4 роки тому

      @@CarFocused that's Hull for you😂 definitely going to look at the dreamscience stage 1 pack!

  • @michaelhesford5191
    @michaelhesford5191 4 роки тому

    My overrun map kicks in after 3 k revs

    • @Quagmire925
      @Quagmire925 4 роки тому +1

      Chav! 👎

    • @steve9087
      @steve9087 4 роки тому

      Do you only get a few pops or does it go on?

  • @boabm6522
    @boabm6522 4 роки тому +2

    Most uncomfortable seats I've ever sat in (are they concrete?) prefer mk7 looks but the standard one I drove was punchy as owt and sounded nice 👊

    • @KyTaundry
      @KyTaundry 4 роки тому +1

      You must be made of paper mate I could sleep in mine.

    • @JoshXCVIII
      @JoshXCVIII Рік тому +1

      You must be huge the seats are beautiful

  • @hdmk213
    @hdmk213 4 роки тому

    An ST2 with ST3 wheels? The seats definitely look like ST-1/2 to me

    • @BR-ks7ov
      @BR-ks7ov 4 роки тому

      They were an optional extra on ST2s and standard on ST3s. I don't think you can order them on ST2s anymore.

  • @nitrooxide2521
    @nitrooxide2521 4 роки тому +1

    Reliability?

    • @rh6777
      @rh6777 4 роки тому

      Absolutely fine this far - car has been around two years now and I think it's not unfair to go off the MK7 as a benchmark in terms of clutch and Gearbox. Time will tell how the 3 pot is with stage 1/2/3 but so far, so good.

    • @MONTIG369
      @MONTIG369 4 роки тому

      Should be fine under normal driving conditions surely?

    • @chirpywiggins5796
      @chirpywiggins5796 3 роки тому

      Not risking a map on mine with 18 months Ford Warranty remaining ! Asking for trouble. Will definitely look at it in future though.

  • @simonlowe4013
    @simonlowe4013 4 роки тому

    I lost a lot of respect for the fiesta, the MK 6,7, I didn’t think much to the shape and performance, but this new fiesta is a very nice shape, not sure on the standard performance but that one seems good on power 🙂

  • @tbbants8118
    @tbbants8118 4 роки тому

    Whats a deckle

    • @tbbants8118
      @tbbants8118 4 роки тому

      @@CarFocused ahh kk cheers

  • @neilbowness6074
    @neilbowness6074 4 роки тому +2

    Why are people so obsessed with pops and bangs, it’s not real performance......and your driving a decat car on the roads.......

  • @x12flare73
    @x12flare73 4 роки тому

    If it has Launch Control, it’ll have the LSD

    • @RobertW-jc6qp
      @RobertW-jc6qp 4 роки тому

      It’s also included in the map so you just get the launch control too

  • @x58evo2puma7
    @x58evo2puma7 4 роки тому

    This isn’t true it dosnt not invalid your warranty as I have modified my fiesta and took it to fords twice and the parts was covered by warranty it all depends if the car came on fault due to the maps then it dose but if the fault came threw not map then it would cover by warranty

    • @x58evo2puma7
      @x58evo2puma7 4 роки тому +1

      Car Focused u said it invalid your warranty and it doesn’t like I said it all depends what the fault is if the fault due to the map then it dose but if the fault don’t with the map then it dosnt invalid the warranty

    • @x58evo2puma7
      @x58evo2puma7 4 роки тому

      Car Focused I just look at video again and u said u do have risk the warranty and the if u blow your engine up and the springs is not covered and like I said on engine bay if u have a fault that not due to map then u are covered and if the fault is due to map then u are not and yes of course if your engine blows up bec of the power u have done then it would not be covered so that down to the map that what I’m saying if the fault due to map like the engine blows up then it’s not covered

    • @tracktimevideos5164
      @tracktimevideos5164 4 роки тому

      @@x58evo2puma7 so your warranty is at risk

  • @rogermanvell4693
    @rogermanvell4693 4 роки тому +2

    Nice car but i hate those puerile noises it puts out.

  • @shaunwalton8058
    @shaunwalton8058 4 роки тому

    What's the point of xtra power when all it does is spin it all away.

  • @owenbrown2322
    @owenbrown2322 4 роки тому

    It's not even bangs it's pops

  • @Muzzaa
    @Muzzaa 4 роки тому

    💤💤💤💤💤

  • @aqibmehboob976
    @aqibmehboob976 4 роки тому

    265 bhp out of 3 pot Jesus Christ defo gonna have issues with that along with heat issues how can a company think it's better to have 3 cylinder instead of 4 more cylinders less pressure and less heat

    • @kd2833
      @kd2833 2 роки тому

      dude triumph motorcycles are all 3 cil there fine doenst matter. bmw/mini are loads of 3 cil aswell

  • @Langers69er
    @Langers69er 4 роки тому +13

    No performance pack 🙄

    • @jscycles1
      @jscycles1 3 роки тому +4

      @@nothanks6665 yes the diff makes a big difference.All other features are a gimmick LC etc